ZR1 motor trend hot lap 1 second slower at LS than ACR

[stradman]

Randy's Hot lap in the Motor trend car of the year at Laguna Seca in the new ZR1 is 1:32.46. vs ACR at same test 2 years ago of 1:31.58. Interesting.

720s at same test did 1:29.78. Very fast.

[catwood]

:United_Kingdom:

And your up late......

[serpent]

I thought the ZR1 would be in the 1:31 range.

[stradman]

:United_Kingdom:

And your up late......

Its only 20:30!!

[catwood]

Its only 20:30!!

oh...that's early, my mistake.

[Scott_in_fl]

Randy's Hot lap in the Motor trend car of the year at Laguna Seca in the new ZR1 is 1:32.46. vs ACR at same test 2 years ago of 1:31.58. Interesting.

720s at same test did 1:29.78. Very fast.

Are you sure that the ACR-E time is not 1:28.65??? As predicted many times long ago, faster than Performante, faster than ZR1 by a ton, faster than 720S too.

But, GT2RS time is still hanging out there. And, that is the one that I think has the best chance at beating it. Although, then again, it has very little aero compared to the ACR-E.

[Slithr]

Are you sure that the ACR-E time is not 1:28.65???.

If not, I've been ripped off :witless:

[Space Truckin]

Are you sure that the ACR-E time is not 1:28.65???


^^^This^^^...:dancingman:

http://fastestlaps.com/models/dodge-viper-acr-mk-v

[stradman]

No I'm talking like for like . The Motor trend test, not the Dodge test where they had all day, a couple of ACR's and full SRT support


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5UkLhTQd7Q

[stradman]

Are you sure that the ACR-E time is not 1:28.65??? As predicted many times long ago, faster than Performante, faster than ZR1 by a ton, faster than 720S too.

But, GT2RS time is still hanging out there. And, that is the one that I think has the best chance at beating it. Although, then again, it has very little aero compared to the ACR-E.

Its not faster than the 720s in the like for like Motor trend test. In fact 1.5 seconds slower I'm afraid.

[Scott_in_fl]

If we're talking records, then the record is the fastest time at that track by a stock car, with stock tires.

At least that's all we ever heard about the Performante and Porsche N'Ring runs when our folks were in Germany. We didn't bring home a trophy even though Porsche has a permanent facility at that track and we had literally like 3 clean laps to give it a shot. So, which is it? Like for like, or fastest time?

[stradman]

If we're talking records, then the record is the fastest time at that track by a stock car, with stock tires.

At least that's all we ever heard about the Performante and Porsche N'Ring runs when our folks were in Germany. We didn't bring home a trophy even though Porsche has a permanent facility at that track and we had literally like 3 clean laps to give it a shot. So, which is it? Like for like, or fastest time?

I'm not talking records here.
Personally, on this occasion, as there is a consistent reference point ie the motor trend test where they bring cars and run them using the same test driver on same track(and not the manufacturer bringing it and doing the testing themselves) I feel its relevant and useful. Take from this what you want.

[Scott_in_fl]

Fair enough, but there still seems to be too much variability for direct comparisons over several years. Different days result in different weather conditions and vehicle performance. Moreover, using the same driver is not perfect either because any individual will undoubtedly have more time/experience/comfort in certain cars than others. I know with myself, there are some cars that I am instantly comfortable in at extreme speeds and others that I am not. Yet, there are other people who have the exact opposite feeling with the same cars.

[SRT_BluByU]

Lets not forget the ACR 1:28 time was also with the same driver ( randy p)

[IHOP]

I'm not talking records here.
Personally, on this occasion, as there is a consistent reference point ie the motor trend test where they bring cars and run them using the same test driver on same track(and not the manufacturer bringing it and doing the testing themselves) I feel its relevant and useful. Take from this what you want.

I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately we do have 2 types of records, the fastest lap ever stock car stock tires is the true RECORD. But the same day, same driver are the ones that get reported and published to sell magazines. We've all seen the 5 supercar shootout stories.

[SharpMan]

What you're seeing is different cars on different days. The 720 time and the ACR time are NOT comparable despite being the same track and same driver. Ambient temp, track condition, etc...etc...

[SRT_BluByU]

but that would be true if all the motortrend tests then... same track, same driver.. but different days.

a record is just that... the fastest. just ask guiness.

[Bruce H.]

What you're seeing is different cars on different days. The 720 time and the ACR time are NOT comparable despite being the same track and same driver. Ambient temp, track condition, etc...etc...

Exactly. It would be wonderful to have an accurate reference to point to that would tell us the exact ranking of car performance but that's a dream, not a reality. Same track over the span of weeks and years with the same or different drivers and different examples of the same model car...forget it...different results every time, guaranteed. And published rankings are of minimal value at best because they represent only the fastest lap and not how well the car stands up or falls off on subsequent laps.

When Randy's own best laps vary by close to 3 seconds on different days in different examples of the same model it's obvious that these ranking can not be used as anything definitive. So many variables, and the track surface at Laguna Seca itself is a pretty big one. The Viper's TA and ACR record laps have been great for Viper enthusiasts to beat their chests over, and the margin of difference of the ACR's with most other models has been enough to be pretty conclusive, but when the results of different cars are fairly close then "close" is about all you can conclude. Rankings are all about marketing and a lot less about predicting owner's track experiences.

[Pappy]

Stradman quote:

"I'm not talking records here.
Personally, on this occasion, as there is a consistent reference point ie the motor trend test where they bring cars and run them using the same test driver on same track(and not the manufacturer bringing it and doing the testing themselves) I feel its relevant and useful. Take from this what you want."

No, it is not really a consistent reference point. The 720 time and the ACR may have been with the same driver on the same track, but they were not on the same day (or even the same year) with the same conditions. The 1:28 also was on the same track with the same driver, but also on different days. The 1:28 is a SCCA certified time, and is the track record -- until tomorrow or the next day when they announce that the GT2 RS beat it. I could see your point a little better if the ACR had been present at this year's BDC evaluation, but alas, it was not. Damn out-of-production hot rods....

Pappy

Edit: Did you notice that Motor Trend described the ZR1 as an "Igloo Cooler with 755 HP"? They couldn't get it to hook up. Pobst did not have anything good to say about it. My guess is that the GT2 RS will have the fastest lap and the 720S will be selected as the MT Best Driver's Car. There will be some grousing about the Porsche's "R" series Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s, but to no avail.

[Arizona Vipers]

I run the same tracks all the time, and they can vary 1-3 seconds, even small 1 mile tracks just based on ambient temps alone. Lots of other things come into play as well, but I would say a car like the ZR1 would vary 3-4 seconds alone just going from a 60* day to an 80* day. Even these same day same driver tests, unless they are all run back to back literally, the first car will have a huge advantage.
I'm ALWAYS 1-2 seconds slower second session than my first session, usually about a 10* ambient temp difference here in AZ

[SRT_BluByU]

really the best way to compare is head to head racing...

[Viperawi]

There will never be a 100% fair comparison to begin with.
We have what we have, and for me it is an indication of what the cars can deliver on some fixed factors.
And the Vette time here is not impressive to say the least.

Does that conclude the theory that on any short circuits the Viper ACR will always have an advantage ?

[stradman]

Listen guys, you know I love the Viper as much as any of you here. All I'm pointing out is that machines like the 720s are looking very impressive indeed. Faster than the P1 around LS in fact. So you have to tip your hat to Mclaren. I also reckon the Senna with all that aero, lightness and extra ponies should be able to do at least 3-4 secs better than the 720s. So if that is the case then I expect the Senna to smash the ACR record by a good 3 seconds. Of course this is just speculation and I know there are loads of variables on the day, but I'm sure we will all find out sooner or later what the real time will be.

[Angleiron]

Listen guys, you know I love the Viper as much as any of you here. All I'm pointing out is that machines like the 720s are looking very impressive indeed. Faster than the P1 around LS in fact. So you have to tip your hat to Mclaren. I also reckon the Senna with all that aero, lightness and extra ponies should be able to do at least 3-4 secs better than the 720s. So if that is the case then I expect the Senna to smash the ACR record by a good 3 seconds. Of course this is just speculation and I know there are loads of variables on the day, but I'm sure we will all find out sooner or later what the real time will be.

At $300K it should be as fast if not faster than the ACR with technology involved with this car. That is the one thing that people lose sight of. What is the price comparison between these cars that are tested? How much technology is involved compared to the ACR? And what impresses me the most is the cost of ownership between a Viper and cars like the 720S, etc.

[stradman]

At $300K it should be as fast if not faster than the ACR with technology involved with this car. That is the one thing that people lose sight of. What is the price comparison between these cars that are tested? How much technology is involved compared to the ACR? And what impresses me the most is the cost of ownership between a Viper and cars like the 720S, etc.

Yes by the same token, that same 300k car is faster(ok double the cost of the ACR-but remember the Macca brings other things to the table as well and not just lap times) than the 2 million dollar 918 and P1 too.

[mikesax]

For the money-for the performance-for the exclusivity-for the durability-and for the relatively inexpensive cost of maintenance and ownership-the Viper is ONE AMAZING MACHINE!

[serpent]

At $300K it should be as fast if not faster than the ACR with technology involved with this car. That is the one thing that people lose sight of. What is the price comparison between these cars that are tested? How much technology is involved compared to the ACR? And what impresses me the most is the cost of ownership between a Viper and cars like the 720S, etc.
You’re also forgetting the ACR is a track car, the 720s is not. Price doesn’t really dictate performance. There are cars that are more money than the viper and do not perform as well but still outsell the viper. The 720s doesn’t need to be a track star or a street/strip machine. It just happens to do everything performance oriented so well. Can lap faster than an ACR can run faster 1/4 mile times than a demon.

I’d be curious to know which is more comfortable for street driving a 720s or the demon?

[Snakebit10]

Don't forget the 720S did that time on Corsa's. Imagine Trofeo R's or the like....The 911 GT3 RS did its time on MPSC2's and barely bested the 720S which was on an inferior tire. The 720S is probably the sickest streetcar under 2 million.

The fact that the ACR is in the same league with these techno-track-killers is a testament to the engineering of its comparatively yester-tech bits. ACR is one of the most epic analogue cars ever while the 720S is probably the most epic digital car out right now, again under 2 million.

[serpent]

Dodge should have increased engine power on the ACR cars and included a DCT option. That 1:28 record could have been 1:27 or less. And that ring time would for sure be under 7. Oh well. Maybe the future viper. :/

[kriskyk]

DCT at that power level would price the Viper out of it's market segment....look how expensive the DCT maintenance is on Porsche cup cars