ACR still quicker than new ZR1 Big Willow

[serpent]

33967

ACR's time back in 2015 was a 1:21.24

[blingnoring]

wow! with all that hype and still fell short by over 2 seconds.

[socal]

Very surprised the 720s couldn't beat the acr

[Pappy]

Kind-of old news. Road and Track just did a test at Laguna Seca with the ZR1, Huracan Performante, 720S, and Porsche GT-2R. The results (mag) should be out Sep 20th, but the rumor is that the Porsche beat the ACR's record, but it doesn't sound like any of the others did. Kind-of the same results as Willow. There was some whining in a recent MT issue that the Viper record at Willow was "with a factory driver with 2 weeks of work-up". Can't whine at LS since the Viper record was with Pobst driving. I also hear that GM may be doing something special at the historics at Laguna this weed-end. Speculation is that we may see the new mid-engine Corvette there.

Pappy

[NT-ACR]

Kind-of old news. Road and Track just did a test at Laguna Seca with the ZR1, Huracan Performante, 720S, and Porsche GT-2R. The results (mag) should be out Sep 20th, but the rumor is that the Porsche beat the ACR's record, but it doesn't sound like any of the others did. Kind-of the same results as Willow. There was some whining in a recent MT issue that the Viper record at Willow was "with a factory driver with 2 weeks of work-up". Can't whine at LS since the Viper record was with Pobst driving. I also hear that GM may be doing something special at the historics at Laguna this weed-end. Speculation is that we may see the new mid-engine Corvette there.

Pappy

I thought you were going to offer your car to the various magazines for testing? What happened? Transportation fall through? Scheduling conflicts?

Also is this thread going to reignite another exhilarating "private discussion" between you and your friends?

[Pappy]

Kiss my A$$. Your stupid a$$ suggestion was to offer up my car - not my idea. Get a life.

Pappy

[catwood]

23.70 at willow. Hell, I ran a 26.42 in a beat up gen 2 about 8 years ago.......

[str5010]

I expected it to be quicker. Liberman signs off by saying all the cars that went quicker than thr ZR1 have the engine placed behind the driver. Still cracks me up that MT only mentions the ACR when it suits them.

[serpent]

Hype for the ZR1 died quick. It didnt even make it a year. I think what killed it is the announcement and spy shots of a mid engine vette.



Kind-of old news. Road and Track just did a test at Laguna Seca with the ZR1, Huracan Performante, 720S, and Porsche GT-2R. The results (mag) should be out Sep 20th, but the rumor is that the Porsche beat the ACR's record, but it doesn't sound like any of the others did. Kind-of the same results as Willow. There was some whining in a recent MT issue that the Viper record at Willow was "with a factory driver with 2 weeks of work-up". Can't whine at LS since the Viper record was with Pobst driving. I also hear that GM may be doing something special at the historics at Laguna this weed-end. Speculation is that we may see the new mid-engine Corvette there.
Pappy
There was a thread awhile back when everyone wasnt sure a Gen V ACR would come out. I mean we knew Dodge was working on it, but we didnt know the details. During those days, I said the car will need a DCT to be a true world beater. DCT option for the extreme. Had the Viper had a DCT, it would've been untouchable in the shorter tracks (obviously not tracks where all out power shines, Road America, Cota, the Ring).

[Jprince]

I expected it to be quicker. Liberman signs off by saying all the cars that went quicker than thr ZR1 have the engine placed behind the driver. Still cracks me up that MT only mentions the ACR when it suits them.

MT has always been chevy biased. Nothing new. They will throw rocks at any other American made car that beats a chevy competitor. Or in this case completely delete it.
They must get some pretty good money from GM. I would just assume take any test that they do and drop it in a shredder.

[ACRSNK]

How do they justify leaving the Viper off altogether? It just serves to further discredit the information they provide and this will taint anything they publish in the future. Kind of funny how threatened all of these manufacturers are when it comes to the ACR.

[str5010]

MT only lists track times that they have recorded during their tests. All others they claim can't be trusted. They mentioned in their GT2RS review that it went quicker at Willow than even the ACR "so the little kids on the internet can shut up" but then choose not to mention it in this video when saying that the only cars to have gone quicker than the ZR1 have the engine located behind the driver. Granted they did say the ACR was one of only two cars to have better brakes than the ZR1 in their opinion.

[Snorman]

How do they justify leaving the Viper off altogether? It just serves to further discredit the information they provide and this will taint anything they publish in the future. Kind of funny how threatened all of these manufacturers are when it comes to the ACR.
As str pointed out, they only list their own results under their own controlled environment, as they should. MT doesn't get a team to prep the car and a truckload of tires like SRT used when Chris Winkler set so many track records.
S.

[str5010]

But if I recall correctly, even at the MT test Porsche was there to support with tire warming blankets and all.

[ForTehNguyen]

1:25 time was set by Z06 by Pobst for comparison. Lack of power isnt the issue with these cars. Especially when a car with 100 less hp did 1:21.24

[Bill Pemberton]

Ahh , the tradition continues! Forget about mentioning how fast the Viper is , as you can not include after 25 years of stating it is not fast except in a straight line , but you can cook eggs on the side sills. Plagiarism was rampant , as we all heard the same story over and over , regardless of the actual results. Reminds one of when Paul Mumford won the Ultimate Street Car in his 01 ACR -- he almost lost because they placed an undue benefit to gas mileage , which , of course , is the first thing folks think about when setting up the Ultimate Car for the Street , ha,ha!!??

[Racingswh]

Ahh , the tradition continues! Forget about mentioning how fast the Viper is , as you can not include after 25 years of stating it is not fast except in a straight line , but you can cook eggs on the side sills. Plagiarism was rampant , as we all heard the same story over and over , regardless of the actual results. Reminds one of when Paul Mumford won the Ultimate Street Car in his 01 ACR -- he almost lost because they placed an undue benefit to gas mileage , which , of course , is the first thing folks think about when setting up the Ultimate Car for the Street , ha,ha!!??

:D

Yep. Fuel economy is critical decision making point for the ultimate street car. I am at 4.4 MPG right now. I am guessing they would throw it straight off the list.

Viper's are and always will be bad ass. I love Corvette's as well and I know many here do not. I will say that I will not be buying a ZR1. I feel there's not enough of a performance advantage over the Z06 to justify the spend and the Z06 comes with it's own nuances that would keep me from ownership.

The reliability of this Viper has been astonishing. It never overheats. It performs at the top of the heap when enjoying it at track events. I am pretty sure for a track day car when taking factors important to me into consideration such as initial cost, ability to insure for nearly full value at track events, lack of depreciation and modest maintenance spend, that there's no better choice IMO.

[ViperDC]

i think its more impressive that a 2017 porsche turbo S is quicker than a 675 LT lol

[Snakebit10]

Hard to say if the ACR is only .2 behind the killer GT2 at Big Willow since it was different days etc. But that ACR time is still so bonkers that the killer GT2 only beat its best time by that small margin. I would like to see a head to head with the ACR on this track with the current track beasts. I doubt it will beat them all but Im betting it will be in the top 3 unless its a hp track.

[Snorman]

i think its more impressive that a 2017 porsche turbo S is quicker than a 675 LT lol
Right. And it ran that time on Pirelli P-Zero's, arguable the least aggressive tire of any car on that list.
Imagine what it would run with MPSC2's or Trofeo R's.
A friend who very competitively races an older gen 911 Turbo (converted to RWD) is adamant that Porsche hobbles the 911 Turbo with tires to keep it from being faster than the GT cars (GT3, GT3 RS...but probably wouldn't beat the GT2 RS no matter what tire). Maybe at this point they can't make the TT look slower any more.
S.

[NT-ACR]

Kiss my A$$. Your stupid a$$ suggestion was to offer up my car - not my idea. Get a life.

Pappy

I'm not sure why you're upset. I presented you with the perfect opportunity to facilitate a comparison between an ACR and ZR1 on the same track, with the same driver, and under similar conditions, yet you obviously still haven't taken advantage of it. Based on your previous posts concerning these two cars, this rivalry is obviously very important to you, so I was simply trying to guide you to a solution that would prove once and for all which is the better track car. Alas, as the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

(Deleted)

[IHOP]

I'm not sure why you're upset. I presented you with the perfect opportunity to facilitate a comparison between an ACR and ZR1 on the same track, with the same driver, and under similar conditions, yet you obviously still haven't taken advantage of it. Based on your previous posts concerning these two cars, this rivalry is obviously very important to you, so I was simply trying to guide you to a solution that would prove once and for all which is the better track car. Alas, as the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
(Deleted)


Dude WTF is your deal? That keyboard commando shit is played out grow the f*ck up!

[Snorman]

DeletedYou're an asshole.
S.

[drewsss]

You're an asshole.
S.

Second that.

[Arizona Vipers]

I'm not sure why you're upset. I presented you with the perfect opportunity to facilitate a comparison between an ACR and ZR1 on the same track, with the same driver, and under similar conditions, yet you obviously still haven't taken advantage of it. Based on your previous posts concerning these two cars, this rivalry is obviously very important to you, so I was simply trying to guide you to a solution that would prove once and for all which is the better track car. Alas, as the saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

(Deleted)

You sure you wanna say this about probably the most helpful guy on this forum? This guy has driven 50 miles to my house on numerous occasions to help me mod my cars using skills he has learned from 50 years of kicking ass in the military to keep you safe, and has never asked for a dime, not even gas money?

[SilveRT8]

Right. And it ran that time on Pirelli P-Zero's, arguable the least aggressive tire of any car on that list.
Imagine what it would run with MPSC2's or Trofeo R's.
A friend who very competitively races an older gen 911 Turbo (converted to RWD) is adamant that Porsche hobbles the 911 Turbo with tires to keep it from being faster than the GT cars (GT3, GT3 RS...but probably wouldn't beat the GT2 RS no matter what tire). Maybe at this point they can't make the TT look slower any more.
S.

Yes, I've tracked my 2017 Turbo S a few times on the stock P-Zero size 245F-305R and the car is really fast as is. I now got a set of MPSC2 in 265F-325R and the improvement is very noticable on track.

[ViperJon]

You sure you wanna say this about probably the most helpful guy on this forum? This guy has driven 50 miles to my house on numerous occasions to help me mod my cars using skills he has learned from 50 years of kicking ass in the military to keep you safe, and has never asked for a dime, not even gas money? If you said anything like this to anyone that knows Pappy they would all beat your fucking head in with their bare hands and shit on your worthless, disgusting brains that are leaking out onto the concrete, and this includes me.

It's really way past time NT-ACR was given a long vacation from the forum. Time and time again he's proven himself to be an nonredeemable dirtball.

[Bill Pemberton]

Completely inappropriate , crass comment , and keep in mind you are an Enthusiast , hence a guest!! Suggest you do the correct thing and edit out your comment concerning his wife, significant other ,etc. as not really a place for that on this Forum!

[whitebeard]

Gentlemen, Keep the discussion on topic. Stop acting like a child who has a wet nappy. Define the topic, not insult the rest of us as we dealing with your immaturity. That is all.

[Snorman]

Yes, I've tracked my 2017 Turbo S a few times on the stock P-Zero size 245F-305R and the car is really fast as is. I now got a set of MPSC2 in 265F-325R and the improvement is very noticable on track.
Yep. The P Zeros are nowhere near the track tire that every other car on that list has from the factory. To me, that makes the 911 TT that much more impressive!
S.

[13COBRA]

It's really way past time NT-ACR was given a long vacation from the forum. Time and time again he's proven himself to be an nonredeemable dirtball.

Completely agree.

[City]

My esteemed colleague, Whitebeard called for calm (and maturity), but I've mopped the floor a bit. We try desperately not to ban forum members, but NT is pushing us here. I'm hoping he gets the message and will raise him game from this point on.

[Scott_in_fl]

The original topic was a fun one to discuss. Maybe we get back to that?

I called it here first... ZR1 would be over-hyped and the truth would be out before long. As a prior Z06 owner, there is just no way that an upsized supercharger was going to move it much quicker around a track than a Z06. We're now also seeing that Performante and NFGT were overhyped as well. But 720S and GT2RS are the real deal.

Now, that said, I am excited about the C8. Watch out for that one.

[Racingswh]

The original topic was a fun one to discuss. Maybe we get back to that?

I called it here first... ZR1 would be over-hyped and the truth would be out before long. As a prior Z06 owner, there is just no way that an upsized supercharger was going to move it much quicker around a track than a Z06. We're now also seeing that Performante and NFGT were overhyped as well. But 720S and GT2RS are the real deal.

Now, that said, I am excited about the C8. Watch out for that one.

I have to say Scott I feel you're right and I am in no way bad mouthing the ZR1. I do like the car very much. If pressed I would say I am not in love with the front end and I don't think it's anywhere close to being as good looking as a Viper.

I have a friend who has a ZR1 coming from a C7Z06 and is a very quick, capable Driver. While the ZR1 is quicker than his Z06 was the margin between the two cars is very slim. So slim it's without question a Driver's race on a road course.

[speedtactics]

Vipers rule!

[Darius]

As str pointed out, they only list their own results under their own controlled environment, as they should. MT doesn't get a team to prep the car and a truckload of tires like SRT used when Chris Winkler set so many track records.
S.

That's why I beat Randy's time in my ACR.:owned:

[dewilmoth]

That's why I beat Randy's time in my ACR.:owned:

Haha, awesome.

[AZTVR]

That's why I beat Randy's time in my ACR.:owned: Gee, how did you get a team from Dodge to prep your car and supply a truckload of tires?


I have always wondered what the lap times would be from enthusiast, high level HPDE guys rather than "professionals." That is more meaningful, real world information to me. However, still not anything that I would attain on the track.

[Arizona Vipers]

That's why I beat Randy's time in my ACR.:owned:

hahaha awesome dude!

[Snorman]

That's why I beat Randy's time in my ACR.:owned:
Congrats. That means you're faster than Randy. Did you beat Winker's :21.2?
But it does nothing to change my point. MT is looking for consistency, so they use the same driver and those are the times they list.
I'm sure there are myriad other drivers out there faster than Randy as well, MT doesn't use them.
S.

[catwood]

Any of you Keyboard warriors want to come out check out West Coast racingn http://www.westcoastracinginc.com/WCR/Welcome.html. Several Viper folks will be there, I'll be there in my panoz so will another Viper guy. several comp coupes and other Vipers, including ACR-E's and other Gens. If you are a rookie, lots of folks there to help you out.

Hell, if you have a vette bring it. Some of the vette guys (Rich) are actually fast and will humble some of you. Lots of various cars and 4 run groups......

[Snorman]

Would love to go to the west coast someday. But for now enjoying Sebring, Road Atlanta, Daytona, VIR, etc.. Our track season is about to get started in the southeast (although we've been racing Champ all year).
S.

[ViperDC]

I called it here first... ZR1 would be over-hyped and the truth would be out before long.

The ZR1 is over hyped because the Viper is quicker on this particular track on a totally different day?

Performante is overhyped? It beat the ACR's ring time by an eternity. NFGT overhyped...beat the Viper by half a second at VIR?

I think overhyped is a little extreme but you are always chomping at the bit to hate on anything non Viper

[uberpube]

That's why I beat Randy's time in my ACR.:owned:

Have you done Laguna Seca?

[512BB]

I agree with the post's where the truth on the ZR1 will come out at some point and I believe it will be marginally faster than the Z06 (2017 model with the ZO7 package) on most tracks, and slower on certain other tracks. This much like the C6 version of these cars due to the heavier weight up front making the ZR1 much more rear limited).

On a side note these are two items that could add to the conversation:
1) Even though Corvette claims that they don't go for Nurburgring times, they definitely do when they go there. The ZR1 was there a few months ago with Jim Miro, factory personnel, etc. and the observers around the track timed it at 7:11 for its best time.
2) The groups testing the car so far are limited to doing a maximum of three laps (in the past if you got driven in your car by a professional at a GM event, the professionals were under strict order to only do three laps as there could be damage to the car - I am assuming that stance has not changed). Randy Pobst drove the ZR1 for three laps at Willow and the oil temperature was 275 and the water was up to 225. In my opinion that is high and shows that there are still heat dissipation issues.

These are definitely interesting times!

[USAFPILOT]

If that’s true the ACR is ten seconds faster than the ZR1 at the ring and has over 100 less HP. That doesn’t seem right, but if true, that’s a pretty weak effort from GM. No way wouldnI want that car of true, also if it is still gonna over heat, that’s a huge pass.

[USAFPILOT]

The C4 ZR1 I owned prior to my Viper set all kinds of endurance records with its LT5, that engine was awesome, but I was bored with the rest of the car. Back when the C4 ZR1 came out it was a tech marvel, and I’m still waiting for the return of GM DOHC engines. When they come out in the C8 ZR1 I might be interested. For now I am solidly a Viper Fan, love it so much after driving it I can’t imagine being behind the wheel of anything else. Well, I could go for a Gen II ACR some day, so long as it’s my second Viper. Vipers Rule!

[Pappy]

Back in 2015, when the Z06s started showing overheating problems, Tadge (GM Corvette Engineer) stated the following in the quote below. He said they could fix the cooling issues, but it would affect weight and aero drag. I think the ZR1 was that answer, but the big cooling ducts required more horsepower to push the air, and more horsepower called for a bigger supercharger with better IAT cooling. All of this added weight, a lot of it on the front end. The ZR1 is still probably quicker than the Z06, but not by much. On the Corvette forum, a lot of folks, including some with actual experience, complain about the weight. BTW USAFPILOT, Mercury Marine has a new 700+ HP, DOHC crate motor ready for install in whatever platform you pick.

Here is the quote from Tadge: "Some may wonder why don't we design to higher temperatures, say 110 degrees, to accommodate southern tracks in the Summer. We have used the "pro driver at 86 degrees" criteria for generations of Corvettes and for the vast majority of customers, it has resulted in excellent performance for their usage. If we designed to higher temperature criteria, we would have to add a lot of cooling hardware which drives mass up and perhaps more importantly, you have to feed the system with more air which has a huge impact on appearance and aerodynamic drag. Like most aspects of car design, the challenge is in finding the best balance of conflicting requirements."

Pappy

[USAFPILOT]

Do guys who’ve modified our Vipers SUpercharging Turbo Charging etc. experience overheating issues? Is the airflow of the Viper Front end that much better or is the internal cooling of the Viper motor just that much better than the LT platform from GM?

[ForTehNguyen]

problem with the Z06 supercharger is it is undersized and at higher rpms it becomes a heat pump. There is a reason why most factory superchargers for the domestics are around 2.3 liters. The Z06 was 1.8 liter I believe. They were probably trying to get it to fit under the standard hood. Hence why the ZR1 has a huge hood bulge. Also the Z06 radiator is the same as the regular vette radiator, thats great to hear.

[Arizona Vipers]

For what it's worth, I've seen TWO C7 Z06's burn to the ground at the track.

[IHOP]

For what it's worth, I've seen TWO C7 Z06's burn to the ground at the track.

And I constantly see the ones I run with pull off the track in limp mode after only a few laps.