Willow Springs Can Someone Explain

[Pappy]

The latest Motor Trend test of the ZR1 Corvette has a summary of production car lap records quoted below. They do not include Winkler's 1.21.24 that is shown as the second fastest on the Willow Springs lap times (fastlaps) http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs. Can someone tell me why the ACR's time was excluded by Motor Trend? Was there a problem with certifying the time? Interesting that all of the other times in the other cars were posted by Pobst.

Quote from Motor Trend article: "What the ZR1 was built to do was set records at real racetracks. Luckily, we’ve got “the fastest track in the West” at our disposal, and a tame race car driver, too. Randy Pobst has set and reset the lap record for production cars at Willow Springs, so he knows his way around. Having recently set a production car lap record in a 2019 Corvette ZR1 at Road Atlanta, he knows his Corvettes, too. Did the ZR1 set another record at the “Big” track? Sadly no, but it did outpace the last Z06 he drove there by a significant 1.3 seconds. In order, the top five spots currently belong to a 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS (1:21.08), 2018 McLaren 720S (1:21.75), 2018 Lamborghini Huracán Performante (1:22.53), 2015 Porsche 918 Spyder (1:23.54), and 2017 Ford GT (1:23.69). In sixth place by a mere 0.01 second, the 2019 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 with the ZTK package made a 1:23.70 lap."

Pappy

[serpent]

Probably because General Motors Trend.

I can't wait to hear the ZR1's time at Laguna Seca. 1:28.65 is a very tall order.

[Voice of Reason]

Isn’t this because they only use their own test results on this track?

[Pappy]

Isn’t this because they only use their own test results on this track?

Probably, but they never say that in the article, and their rank order and lap times of the listed cars matches the Willow Spring fastest times right down the list, except for exclusion of the Viper. http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...t-test-review/ It seems to be a very deliberate attempt to exclude the ACR from the discussion so they could run with the story line that all of the other cars "cost way more than the Corvette", which didn't perform very well.

Pappy

[NT-ACR]

Probably, but they never say that in the article, and their rank order and lap times of the listed cars matches the Willow Spring fastest times right down the list, except for exclusion of the Viper. http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...t-test-review/ It seems to be a very deliberate attempt to exclude the ACR from the discussion so they could run with the story line that all of the other cars "cost way more than the Corvette", which didn't perform very well.

Pappy

I swear some of you get your panties in a wad over the smallest things. The ACR lap time wasn't included because they didn't conduct that test, Dodge did. Motor Trend has only tested the ACR at one track- Laguna Seca. In this case, Motor Trend tested the new ZR1 at Willow Springs with Randy Pobst behind the wheel, hence the reason for comparing the ZR1's times with the other cars that they've tested there with Randy behind the wheel. It's seriously not that hard to understand.

Please stop trying to create drama where there isn't any.

[NT-ACR]

Probably, but they never say that in the article, and their rank order and lap times of the listed cars matches the Willow Spring fastest times right down the list, except for exclusion of the Viper. http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...t-test-review/ It seems to be a very deliberate attempt to exclude the ACR from the discussion so they could run with the story line that all of the other cars "cost way more than the Corvette", which didn't perform very well.

Pappy

Actually, how about you lend your ACR to Motor Trend for testing at Willow Springs. That way, Randy can set a lap time, a nice little article can be written comparing the ACR's time to all of the other cars that they've tested there, and you can sleep better at night knowing that you coerced the blatantly anti-Viper automotive media to admit that the Viper is the greatest car that has ever been, and forever will be, made*.

*Opinion subject to change should a new generation Viper ever be produced.

[Pappy]

I swear some of you get your panties in a wad over the smallest things. The ACR lap time wasn't included because they didn't conduct that test, Dodge did. Motor Trend has only tested the ACR at one track- Laguna Seca. In this case, Motor Trend tested the new ZR1 at Willow Springs with Randy Pobst behind the wheel, hence the reason for comparing the ZR1's times with the other cars that they've tested there with Randy behind the wheel. It's seriously not that hard to understand.

Please stop trying to create drama where there isn't any.

Don't be a condescending smart-a$$. No drama intended. The original question was to see if there was some valid reason the Viper's time was not included in a major magazine's list of top times at the track. I am in a private discussion with others who are challenging the validity of the ACR time because it wasn't included in the MT article - just trying to verify the facts. If MT wanted to compare just the times of only vehicles they tested, they should have said so up front. They did not. Did you even read the article? Pi$$-poor journalism.

Pappy

[NT-ACR]

Don't be a condescending smart-a$$. No drama intended. The original question was to see if there was some valid reason the Viper's time was not included in a major magazine's list of top times at the track. I am in a private discussion with others who are challenging the validity of the ACR time because it wasn't included in the MT article - just trying to verify the facts. If MT wanted to compare just the times of only vehicles they tested, they should have said so up front. They did not. Did you even read the article? Pi$$-poor journalism.

Pappy

Why would Motor Trend include a time from a test that they weren't involved in in any way? Also, why is it poor journalism for them not to specifically mention that the times listed are only for vehicles they've tested? Most people would understand this without being told.

Using your logic, I guess they should include ever lap time ever recorded at Willow Springs by any person least they be accused of purposely excluding a particular vehicle.

Also, your private discussion sounds like an idiotic one. However, as I mentioned above, if you really want Motor Trend to include the ACR on their list, offer them yours for testing. At least then, the participants in your discussion would have nothing to challenge.

[bulitt]

I once asked JasonHeffner why no Magazine had tested his cars but other Tuners always had tests written up.
I was told you gotta pay big bucks to have a test done and in a Mag! $$$

[Shooter]

Because nobody gives a shit. Way more important stuff to worry about here...like resale values and how Gen V ACR's are the mostest bestest cars of all time and worth millions but nobody understands.

Did i mention that nobody really gives a shit.

[catwood]

I ran a :26.42 at willow in a Gen 2. No one cared except some guy named Dan that owned the car before I did.

[One Viper Bite]

Motor Trend has disclosed in many previous articles and videos that they only include lap times and test data that THEY have conducted themselves. You can't expect them to disclose that in every single article and video they put out.

All we can hope is that Motor Trend does a proper Head to Head episode between the two or at least takes the ZR-1 to Laguna Seca to see how it stacks up against the ACR time Randy put down with them.

[RedTanRT/10]

I ran a :26.42 at willow in a Gen 2. Then the next session I blew up the motor and sprayed oil all over turns 8 and 9. Every one was pissed except some guy named Dan that owned the car before I did and had moved to Texas.

Clarified by witness.

[catwood]

two false hoods there......It was the following day and I left no oil on the track. However Dan was feeling a bit schadenfreude

[Pappy]

Motor Trend has disclosed in many previous articles and videos that they only include lap times and test data that THEY have conducted themselves. You can't expect them to disclose that in every single article and video they put out.

All we can hope is that Motor Trend does a proper Head to Head episode between the two or at least takes the ZR-1 to Laguna Seca to see how it stacks up against the ACR time Randy put down with them.

That may be true, but they were VERY quick to report that Randy Pobst, driving a ZR-1, beat the ACR's Road Atlanta track record (by .09 sec). LOL

[NT-ACR]

That may be true, but they were VERY quick to report that Randy Pobst, driving a ZR-1, beat the ACR's Road Atlanta track record (by .09 sec). LOL

Pappy, this was silly thread to begin with and now you just look foolish attempting to grasp at straws to support your position. Just stop.

[Pappy]

Pappy, this was silly thread to begin with and now you just look foolish attempting to grasp at straws to support your position. Just stop.

From post #1, this thread was started to ask two questions: "Can someone tell me why the ACR's time was excluded by Motor Trend? Was there a problem with certifying the (Viper's) time?" I assumed if there was a problem with the validity of the Viper's time, someone on the VOA forum would know the answer. I did not get an authoritative answer to the second question, although no one identified a problem with the time. The consensus for the first question was that MT generally discusses only tests it has conducted, which I accept. I am not trying to support any position. I track my ACR and I know its strengths and weaknesses, and if the ZR1 proves to be a better track car, I'll get off the fence and buy one.

Pappy

[IHOP]

Pappy, this was silly thread to begin with and now you just look foolish attempting to grasp at straws to support your position. Just stop.

Dude, you sound like an ass! If you don't care about what someone posts as a thread don't ruin their post by trying to change their topic.

[IHOP]

Because nobody gives a shit. Way more important stuff to worry about here...like resale values and how Gen V ACR's are the mostest bestest cars of all time and worth millions but nobody understands.

Did i mention that nobody really gives a shit.

Best Viper Gen is opinion but if you want to go by performance numbers they do indicate a best Gen Viper.

[Snorman]

Car and Driver doesn't include Jim Mero's times in Corvettes during their annual Lightning Lap issue. And Mero went faster in a C7 Z06 than any C&D driver did in any other car, including the 918.
It's called "apples to apples".
S.

[Camfab]

I know it's got nothing to do with this thread but I have to ask....... IHOP, are you following suit and changing your forum name to IHOB? Back to the regularly scheduled track time questions...

[Scott_in_fl]

Because nobody gives a shit. Way more important stuff to worry about here...like resale values and how Gen V ACR's are the mostest bestest cars of all time and worth millions but nobody understands.

Did i mention that nobody really gives a shit.

You're not alone. There are other non-Gen V owners that feel similarly and apparently like to contribute their opinions on the Gen V board.


Dude, you sound like an ass! If you don't care about what someone posts as a thread don't ruin their post by trying to change their topic.

Indeed!


I know it's got nothing to do with this thread but I have to ask....... IHOP, are you following suit and changing your forum name to IHOB? Back to the regularly scheduled track time questions...

LOL!!!

[Shooter]

You're not alone. There are other non-Gen V owners that feel similarly and apparently like to contribute their opinions on the Gen V board.


Actually, after owning a Gen III, 3 Gen IV's and a Gen V track pack..the Gen IV X that I owned was the fastest on the track. Which is what I care about.

[commandomatt]

Actually, after owning a Gen III, 3 Gen IV's and a Gen V track pack..the Gen IV X that I owned was the fastest on the track. Which is what I care about.

Your non street legal X was faster on the track than your close to base Gen V !!!!!

That's amazing

PS. Nobody really gives a shit :devilish:

[IHOP]

I know it's got nothing to do with this thread but I have to ask....... IHOP, are you following suit and changing your forum name to IHOB? Back to the regularly scheduled track time questions...

Haha! No because actually I do hop, you know with whole having one leg and all. :drive:

[IHOP]

Actually, after owning a Gen III, 3 Gen IV's and a Gen V track pack..the Gen IV X that I owned was the fastest on the track. Which is what I care about.


So you don't own nor have you tracked a Gen V ACR then why start a discussion in a Gen V ACR thread? Go over to Viperalley there are many more "smart" Gen III owners there!


Your non street legal X was faster on the track than your close to base Gen V !!!!!

That's amazing

PS. Nobody really gives a shit :devilish:


Awesome! :lol2:

[Snorman]

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-20062017-historical-data-every-lap-time-every-car-feature

Boohoo...why isn't Chris Winklers 2:40.2 listed on Car & Driver's historical Lightning Lap fastest laps page?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLuXFrsePXE

Why isn't the ZR1's 2:37 list on the same list?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7j1gCM6-5M

Again, ridiculous. Those lists are maintained by the magazines for tests that THEY did and controlled with THEIR drivers.
S.

[Shooter]

PS. Nobody really gives a shit :devilish:

Yep. I agree.

[Arizona Vipers]

Why would Motor Trend include a time from a test that they weren't involved in in any way? Also, why is it poor journalism for them not to specifically mention that the times listed are only for vehicles they've tested? Most people would understand this without being told.

Using your logic, I guess they should include ever lap time ever recorded at Willow Springs by any person least they be accused of purposely excluding a particular vehicle.

Also, your private discussion sounds like an idiotic one. However, as I mentioned above, if you really want Motor Trend to include the ACR on their list, offer them yours for testing. At least then, the participants in your discussion would have nothing to challenge.


You are wrong. EVERYONE i know that read that article read it the way Pappy did and thought it was a list of the fastest lap times there period, not just what Motor Trend did. I had so many people texting me wondering why the ACR wasn't on there. So yeah, Motor Trend should have mentioned it was THEIR top 5 lap times or whatever. Why not?

[Arizona Vipers]

Also, more importantly the ZR1 times seem slow, like something was off. But if anything was "off" I'm sure GM would have known and fixed it? Was it a really hot day? Maybe the heft of the car just tends to hurt it more on that track then the others it's been getting great times on?