Michelin Sport Cup 2 in the rain

[nx91notch]

Time for new rubber on the car. 2013 SRT with the track pack so I had the Corsa tires. I was able to squeeze 12k miles out of them and completely happy with that. I know there is a ton of hate for the Corsa tires but I honestly didn't feel it was that bad of a tire....problem is they seem to be elusive. I can get a set from my local dealer in about a weeks time for $1850 but at that cost I can get a set of Michelin Sport Cup 2's for $2k.

Being the price point from the dealer I am not going to mess with the Corsa's again. An employee that I spoke with at Tirerack.com directed me towards the Cup 2's but I am not sure about them in the rain. Anyone try them in the rain? Expected mileage? My mileage goals are 10k miles.....if I get that I am always happy.

Living in FL I need to have tire I can trust in the rain. The attached pic is the other week on Corsa tires on the wear bars (basically bald) and I felt confident and my buddy and I were up on the interstate hitting speeds of 80 mph give or take.

My other option I have in mind are the Pilot Super Sports in the rear and the PS2's in the front but I am not crazy about not having matching tire tread patterns. I have OCD :p

33186

[ForTehNguyen]

can run 285/35/18 PSS in the front so you can match brands on 345/30/19 in the rear. I am running this now. Ive heard the Cup 2s are very dicey in the rain

[nx91notch]

can run 285/35/18 PSS in the front so you can match brands on 345/30/19 in the rear. I am running this now. Ive heard the Cup 2s are very dicey in the rain

No problems with the traction system running a taller tire in front?

[parabs]

No problems with the traction system running a taller tire in front?

No problems. Many including myself are running a 295/30/19 (26.0” vs 25.0” stock) with a 345/30/19 in the rear and I haven’t had an issue. 500-600 miles so far for me.

[sadil]

No problems with the traction system running a taller tire in front?

Hmm..why would you have problems with the traction system on a non-driven tire?

[nx91notch]

Hmm..why would you have problems with the traction system on a non-driven tire?

There are wheel speed sensors up there. Didn't know if changing the height of the tire would upset anything. But I guess it's no different than taking and putting 19" wheels in the front.

[PkB2014]

There is a ton of hate for the regular PZero, NOT for the Corsa. The Corsa is great "do everything" tire and I would stick with those if you liked them and you don't mind the price. Corsa will be way better than Cup 2 in the rain, but with 355 rear tires every tire will suck in reality.

[swexlin]

I have driven my Corsas in heavy rain, with no issues. I course, I was very careful with speed, and no funny business! But, the car handled just fine.

[Policy Limits]

I'd kill for 12k in my kuhmo's...

[ForTehNguyen]

No problems with the traction system running a taller tire in front?

nope, tracked the car on those tires and it drove great.

[MinGrey02Stg2]

I'm running SC2s in 305/30/19 in the front and 345/30/20 out back. I live in South Florida and have been caught in a downpour on 95 before. I just moved over to the right lane and went slow with no issues. In the dry they are AWESOME tires with a very predictable, progressive feel at the limit.

[nitromilt]

Rain???..... that’s a four letter word viper owners cringe when they hear it...

[nx91notch]

I'm running SC2s in 305/30/19 in the front and 345/30/20 out back. I live in South Florida and have been caught in a downpour on 95 before. I just moved over to the right lane and went slow with no issues. In the dry they are AWESOME tires with a very predictable, progressive feel at the limit.

What's the estimated tread life you think?

[PkB2014]

nope, tracked the car on those tires and it drove great.


No problems. Many including myself are running a 295/30/19 (26.0” vs 25.0” stock) with a 345/30/19 in the rear and I haven’t had an issue. 500-600 miles so far for me.


I'm running SC2s in 305/30/19 in the front and 345/30/20 out back. I live in South Florida and have been caught in a downpour on 95 before. I just moved over to the right lane and went slow with no issues. In the dry they are AWESOME tires with a very predictable, progressive feel at the limit.


No problems with the traction system running a taller tire in front?

The diameter ratio of front to back is all that matters. Stock ratio FR/RR is about 91.2% (25/27.4), and so far from my gathering of information on what people (myself included) have used with and without issues I've come to an estimate of about 4.5% is within the standard limits without any perceived TC/ESC or ABS issues. The real number in my mind seems to be 5% but I haven't found anyone that could confirm it so I stick to the 4.5% as an unofficial recommendation.

My setup is listed below and I have had no noticeable issues.
Example: Hoosier R7 (315/30/18 = 25.6, 345/30/19 = 27.2)
25.6/26.8(100) = 95.5 - 91.2 = 4.3% different from stock setup.

[SRT_BluByU]

There is a ton of hate for the regular PZero, NOT for the Corsa. The Corsa is great "do everything" tire and I would stick with those if you liked them and you don't mind the price. Corsa will be way better than Cup 2 in the rain, but with 355 rear tires every tire will suck in reality.

agree compleatly... Corsas are fantastic!

[512BB]

Changing the diameter of the tire will effect the wheel sensors and the map associated with ABS, traction and stability control. The speed differential between front and rear tires is the key here, which is driven by the percentage difference. I have not measured or have data on the Viper but for example on a 2008 Z06 if the system detects a speed differential of 5 MPH traction and stability controls come on, even at straight line driving. For street driving putting the car into "Competitive" mode solves that issue as the speed differential margins are greater. Track mode pretty much get rids of it. On a 2007 Porsche turbo, the margin is even smaller, something in the 1.5% region.

I am assuming that the Viper will be fine on the street if you put it in Sport or Track mode.

However, a word of caution when changing the f/r ratios that when you go beyond the limit the corrective maps are based on the stock cars ratios, so the car will react differently when/if stability and/or traction control kicks in. This is very noticable on the Z06 on the track when running in competitive mode, it always feels like the car is chasing the maps and my reaction (I run a bigger front tire than stock). The solution there is to run it in Track mode.

[ForTehNguyen]

running fine for normal driving for me. Tracked in ESC Sport with no issues.

[Luisv]

Rain???..... that’s a four letter word viper owners cringe when they hear it...

True.... but for Florida it's more of a "crap - I just washed the damn car" situation. If we would be afraid of rain in Florida...... we'd have to move. :smilielol:

From January to April of 2018 we had a total of about 6 inches of rain. By the end of May we were at a mere 22 inches of rain. That is not a typo... 16 inches in one month!

So when it comes to tires, in Florida, we tend to be more like F1 and less like NASCAR.... when it rains..... we drive... :devilish:

[SilveRT8]

The diameter ratio of front to back is all that matters. Stock ratio FR/RR is about 91.2% (25/27.4), and so far from my gathering of information on what people (myself included) have used with and without issues I've come to an estimate of about 4.5% is within the standard limits without any perceived TC/ESC or ABS issues. The real number in my mind seems to be 5% but I haven't found anyone that could confirm it so I stick to the 4.5% as an unofficial recommendation.


My setup is listed below and I have had no noticeable issues.
Example: Hoosier R7 (315/30/18 = 25.6, 345/30/19 = 27.2)
25.6/27.2(100) = 95.5 - 91.2 = 4.3% different from stock setup.

Sorry to correct your maths but your 25.6/27.2(100) is 94.1%- 91.2 = 2.9%

[1ststrike]

Some cars must be much more sensitive. My 2016 ACR goes into limp mode in anything over 2nd gear with 295-30-19 hoosiers in front, unless i turn traction control off. Running 345-30-19 in back. Have had others with similar issue in our region. Seems most aren't as sensitive as mine. All of them are ACR E'S. Had all the wheel sensors checked, all checks out as normal. We are all converting to special 18" rims that fit over rotors.

[nx91notch]

Well I just couldn't trust Cup 2s in FL weather. I ended up going with what was suggested but a few here and in other threads. 285/35/18 and 345/30/19 rear in the pilot super sports. Couldn't beat the price from tirerack. Set of 4 came to $1528 shipped plus an additional $70 mail in rebate. In stock no waiting be here tomorrow.

But now reading some responses about limp in mode and traction control issues little worried.

[SlateEd]

Well I just couldn't trust Cup 2s in FL weather. I needed up with what was suggested but a very here and in other threads. 285/35/18 and 345/30/19 rear in the pilot super sports.

But now reading some responses about limp in mode and traction control issues little worried.

Good move on skipping the Cup tires for rain. I've never had the pleasure myself, but a friend who is a far better driver than I am used to complain about them in any amount of rain on a Gen4 ACR. Good luck with the Super Sports - had them on the Gen3 and liked them very much.

[SilveRT8]

Well I just couldn't trust Cup 2s in FL weather. I ended up going with what was suggested but a few here and in other threads. 285/35/18 and 345/30/19 rear in the pilot super sports. Couldn't beat the price from tirerack. Set of 4 came to $1528 shipped plus an additional $70 mail in rebate. In stock no waiting be here tomorrow.

But now reading some responses about limp in mode and traction control issues little worried.

Great choice with the PSS. I run a set of Corsas for the track but also have the same ser lf PSS
for the street. 95.2%- 91.2= 4%
When first mounted, I had 51psi in the front by mistake and it would go in limp mode, but
now that I run the same or lower psi in the front, all is fine.
Great street tire, one of the best in the rain, smooth, quiet with good grip and they lasted
for 19K on my previous ‘13 Viper.

[ViperGeorge]

I've run 315/30/18 Hoosiers in front and 345/30/19 in rear and the traction/stability system in my 2015 TA 2.0 hated that setup. Had to turn the system off. I was told by Erich Heuschele (the guy that designed the system) that it would also cause issues with the ABS system and the ABS issues were not solved by turning the ESC system off.

On my ACR-E I run Michelin PS2s in front in 295/30/18 and PSSs in rear in 345/30/19. This combo was recommended by Luke at TireRack and I've had no complaints with them. Tread pattern is virtually the same. Compounds are different with PS2s being a bit stickier which helps with understeer.

A friend ran Corsas at Hastings and seriously chunked them in a like three sessions. 4x6 section of tread came off as well as a few smaller spots. I had them on my TA 2.0 when I got it and they didn't last on the track at all. My Kumhos are longer lasting and that's saying something.

[Bruce H.]

A friend ran Corsas at Hastings and seriously chunked them in a like three sessions. 4x6 section of tread came off as well as a few smaller spots. I had them on my TA 2.0 when I got it and they didn't last on the track at all. My Kumhos are longer lasting and that's saying something.

Do you tend to go aggressive from the start of a session? I'm careful to let the tire heat up slowly in an effort to not have the tread blister off and none of several sets have ever chunked and they don't blister until they are worn right down on the edges. Logging shows my fastest laps aren't until 8-12 so they can take a lot of heat, but may need that slower warm up, which usually feels like about 3 laps to me. I also drive in such a way to minimize push in the corners to manage abuse of the fronts. I consistently run out front with everything but ACR-E's, and not much behind them, so have always struggled to understand how your experience is so different than mine.

Track rat friends struggling to keep up wish Corsas were available in their sizes because they can't believe the tires performance on dry track, wet track, and longevity. And speaking of wet grip, I've run several wet track days and been very impressed with them. Passengers have thought there was no possible way that the car could brake so hard and corner so fast without flying off the track. I have to also give credit to ABS and ESC Track Mode for working well with the Corsas, although I only ever noticed ABS intervening.

Numerous friends who have run Cup 2 tires have not been satisfied with them due to heat cycling out too fast and poor wet grip...not a good combo for street and track us. The tire I'd be interested in trying on the track from friend's rave reviews is the Nitto NT-01 if they ever make them in our sizes.

[kriskyk]

Do you tend to go aggressive from the start of a session? I'm careful to let the tire heat up slowly in an effort to not have the tread blister off and none of several sets have ever chunked and they don't blister until they are worn right down on the edges. Logging shows my fastest laps aren't until 8-12 so they can take a lot of heat, but may need that slower warm up, which usually feels like about 3 laps to me. I also drive in such a way to minimize push in the corners to manage abuse of the fronts. I consistently run out front with everything but ACR-E's, and not much behind them, so have always struggled to understand how your experience is so different than mine.

Track rat friends struggling to keep up wish Corsas were available in their sizes because they can't believe the tires performance on dry track, wet track, and longevity. And speaking of wet grip, I've run several wet track days and been very impressed with them. Passengers have thought there was no possible way that the car could brake so hard and corner so fast without flying off the track. I have to also give credit to ABS and ESC Track Mode for working well with the Corsas, although I only ever noticed ABS intervening.

Numerous friends who have run Cup 2 tires have not been satisfied with them due to heat cycling out too fast and poor wet grip...not a good combo for street and track us. The tire I'd be interested in trying on the track from friend's rave reviews is the Nitto NT-01 if they ever make them in our sizes.


You have any thoughts / experiences with the R888Rs you can provide?

[Bruce H.]

You have any thoughts / experiences with the R888Rs you can provide?

No personal experience but they are far too noisy on the road for me to consider as I drive long distances and they'd drive me nuts. It's the uniform and open tread pattern that causes the noise.

[Dr.Ron]

I've run 315/30/18 Hoosiers in front and 345/30/19 in rear and the traction/stability system in my 2015 TA 2.0 hated that setup. Had to turn the system off. I was told by Erich Heuschele (the guy that designed the system) that it would also cause issues with the ABS system and the ABS issues were not solved by turning the ESC system off.

On my ACR-E I run Michelin PS2s in front in 295/30/18 and PSSs in rear in 345/30/19. This combo was recommended by Luke at TireRack and I've had no complaints with them. Tread pattern is virtually the same. Compounds are different with PS2s being a bit stickier which helps with understeer.

A friend ran Corsas at Hastings and seriously chunked them in a like three sessions. 4x6 section of tread came off as well as a few smaller spots. I had them on my TA 2.0 when I got it and they didn't last on the track at all. My Kumhos are longer lasting and that's saying something.

I run 315/18 & 345/18 Hoosier A7's in track mode and have NO nanny issues. Just telling my experience.

Ron

[nx91notch]

Well we will find out tomorrow they just got dropped off here today.

[PkB2014]

Sorry to correct your maths but your 25.6/27.2(100) is 94.1%- 91.2 = 2.9%

Thanks, I was copy and pasting from my spreadsheet and grabbed the wrong RR value.
Should be: 25.6/26.8(100) = 95.5

I fixed it. Thanks, again.

[PkB2014]

Some cars must be much more sensitive. My 2016 ACR goes into limp mode in anything over 2nd gear with 295-30-19 hoosiers in front, unless i turn traction control off. Running 345-30-19 in back. Have had others with similar issue in our region. Seems most aren't as sensitive as mine. All of them are ACR E'S. Had all the wheel sensors checked, all checks out as normal. We are all converting to special 18" rims that fit over rotors.

The ACR-E tire ratio is slightly different with a smaller front diameter and larger rear diameter stock:
Ratio = 90.5% vs 91.2% for non-ACR Vipers.

Combined with the fact that 295/30/19 has a larger diameter than 295/30/18 so that puts you at FR=26.1 and RR=26.8 so the 97.4% ratio is well past the 4-5% of leniency that the system seems to allow.
97.4-90.5=6.9

It makes sense that your car is freaking out.

[nx91notch]

Well I installed them yesterday.....pulled out of the dealership and traction control was not happy! 1st, 2nd, 3rd under 1/4 to half throttle the trac light was flashing like crazy.

BUT........after I made it to the first stop light and pulled away again it didn't do it a second time and never did again on the way home. So I am thinking the ABS module just needed to relearn himself.

Don't know if I will get out and drive today but will report back.

[SilveRT8]

Well I installed them yesterday.....pulled out of the dealership and traction control was not happy! 1st, 2nd, 3rd under 1/4 to half throttle the trac light was flashing like crazy.

BUT........after I made it to the first stop light and pulled away again it didn't do it and never did again on the way home. So I am thinking the ABS module just needed to relearn himself.

Don't know if I will get out and drive today but will report back.

Exact same thing happened to me first time out with the PSS 285- 345 combo. I tought it was due to the 51 psi in the fronts, but it never did it again since then.
You should be fine too !

[ForTehNguyen]

Well I installed them yesterday.....pulled out of the dealership and traction control was not happy! 1st, 2nd, 3rd under 1/4 to half throttle the trac light was flashing like crazy.

BUT........after I made it to the first stop light and pulled away again it didn't do it a second time and never did again on the way home. So I am thinking the ABS module just needed to relearn himself.

Don't know if I will get out and drive today but will report back.

this happened to me for the first 1/8th of a mile or so but I think the rear wheels were slipping from the fresh rubber. Needed to wear off that initial layer. I took it easy for a mile or so and never came back. Been great ever since, ran like a champ on the track. Runs quieter and smoother than Pirellis on the street

[swexlin]

I had PS2s on my Gen 3, and loved 'em. In another couple years when it's time to replace my Corsas, if they are not available, I think I'll go with the Michelins.

[PkB2014]

Michelin is suppose to be releasing a new version of the Cup 2s soon, Pilot Sport Cup 2R. They were used on the Porsche GT3 RS for the Ring attempt. I'm looking forward to more details and reviews of those when they finally release to the public.

[ek1]

Michelin is suppose to be releasing a new version of the Cup 2s soon, Pilot Sport Cup 2R. They were used on the Porsche GT3 RS for the Ring attempt. I'm looking forward to more details and reviews of those when they finally release to the public.

Also available on the new GT3 RS. Gonna be a hell of a tire....both in terms of performance and price. I predict a minimum of $550 per tire in 19" size.

[ForTehNguyen]

oh lookie here:

https://driveviper.com/classifieds/wheels-2f-tires/p2385-set-of-4-michelin-pss-tires-285-2f18-and-345-2f19-w-2fless-than-1k-miles.html

[Pappy]

Rain? I've heard of that. I ran up on a new Z06/Z07 on Interstate 40 in a rainstorm a while back. He was doing 40 mph (in a 75 mph zone) with his flashers on. I don't know if the tires were a problem, but he seemed to think so. A few miles later, well past the rain shower, he blew by me like I was standing still. LOL

Pappy

[Terminator02]

I'm actually sitting parked right now to be on the safe side with super sports 21in 325 rear 21in 285 front in a 17 X5M. Since initial concern is rain they are terrible. Basically any wide tire is bad imo in a rwd rained road even a physics defying awd SUV with great Xdrive goe the M. But Hydroplaning sucks and it covers up potholes which in michigan is like a crime for how many there are and numbers of shredded rims and tires people fall into. Tread is near nonexistent and highly sticky so don't see them lasting very long on track days. Obviously different vehicles but likely somewhat relevant.

Now on sunny days I will be switching stock TA tires with SS. And yes for great tiretrack discounts. They catch, seem very sticky and I never fishtail...with nearly 650 crank up. IMO SS are a 1 season tire with 3 season "good day" capability.

[nx91notch]

Well I got caught up in the rain the other day on my new pilot super sports.....doing 60 mph no problem.

I wonder what people think when a Viper is blowing past them in pouring rain and they are in SUV's struggling to go 35 mph.

[nx91notch]

For the love of Viper! Do not use Michelin Pilots for so many reasons I can't even begin to list! There's only one brand that I personally trust and that is Continental (just my opinion, not trying to start a forum fall-out war!) :)

What tire does Continental have that even comes close to Gen V factory sizes 18/19?

When I was researching tires not one mention of Continental ever came up in any threads. Viper and Vette forums....yes I read Vette forums for tire reviews lol.

I went to continental.com and went to their tire finder by size and looked in their drop down menu....largest size they show is a 315.

[ForTehNguyen]

wish continental had bigger tire sizes, always good to have another option. Their new Extreme Sport Contact is suppose to be on par with PSS, too bad it doesnt have the sizing for the rear G5 tire. They do have 285/30/18 which is doable on the front but the widest rear they have is 325/30/19

[Whiskey]

Why do I fee like I'm the only one who runs the Nitto INVO. Tracks straight, no noise, rides fantastic, hooks 750rwhp easily and drives in the heaviest of Florida rain without drama.


EDIT: Also might be the cheapest tire you can get on a Viper.

[ek1]

Well I got caught up in the rain the other day on my new pilot super sports.....doing 60 mph no problem.

I wonder what people think when a Viper is blowing past them in pouring rain and they are in SUV's struggling to go 35 mph.

Having driven my ACR in heavy rain on multiple tires (stock Kumhos, Toyo R888Rs, Hoosier Rs7 and lately PSC2's) I can tell you that the car will definitely try to hydroplane at 60mph if you hit a patch of standing water that often appears on the road during a heavy downpour. I found that 55MPH is the top speed where you can hit standing water and manage the wiggle where the car is trying to sail rather than drive). But if someone wants to bet their car and their life on that extra 5mph, by all means let us know how it goes :)

[ViperGeorge]

Having driven my ACR in heavy rain on multiple tires (stock Kumhos, Toyo R888Rs, Hoosier Rs7 and lately PSC2's) I can tell you that the car will definitely try to hydroplane at 60mph if you hit a patch of standing water that often appears on the road during a heavy downpour. I found that 55MPH is the top speed where you can hit standing water and manage the wiggle where the car is trying to sail rather than drive). But if someone wants to bet their car and their life on that extra 5mph, by all means let us know how it goes :)

Totally agree. Driving the car is heavy rain is sketchy at best on any type of tire. It isn't the car or tire choice per se, rather it is the width of the tires. Too hard for water to evacuate from under the tread. Higher pressures help to a point but lower speeds are the way to go.