ACR E Value

[CocaineWhiteACR]

Hey everyone

Might be going in a different direction as far as cars go, unfortunately I can't seem to gather enough price information on what the current value is. I did see a thread member Tom B started a few weeks ago in regards to his 2016 ACR, which gave me a bit of help but not for the Extreme. This isn't a for sale thread, I just know I would get a better understanding from others on here of market value. Car is white with 3100 miles, excellent condition, no mods besides front end clear bra & window tint. I have also questioned holding onto it as it may increase rarity since the market is scarce as it is, not sure what others think or maybe some are in the same boat?

Any help is appreciated guys.
Thanks-

[13COBRA]

3100 miles?

I'll bail you out before it falls apart. How would you like your $90k? Wired or cashier's check?

[ClayR]

I sold a cocaine white ACR-E for $135K. Sticker was $131K. 2500 miles, full Xpel and some nice mods.

[dewilmoth]

Hey everyone

Might be going in a different direction as far as cars go, unfortunately I can't seem to gather enough price information on what the current value is. I did see a thread member Tom B started a few weeks ago in regards to his 2016 ACR, which gave me a bit of help but not for the Extreme. This isn't a for sale thread, I just know I would get a better understanding from others on here of market value. Car is white with 3100 miles, excellent condition, no mods besides front end clear bra & window tint. I have also questioned holding onto it as it may increase rarity since the market is scarce as it is, not sure what others think or maybe some are in the same boat?

Any help is appreciated guys.
Thanks-

I’m guessing somewhere around MSRP if you want to wait for it. What was the MSRP? If you want it gone quick, I think MSRP -$10k will get it gone relatively quickly. Just a guess, as there aren’t many data points and the ones we do have are all over the place.

[SharpMan]

Wait three months.

[Bruce H.]

Wait three months.

Might be a lot of them being unloaded then.

[Boba Fett]

Might be a lot of them being unloaded then.

y is that Bruce?

[13COBRA]

y is that Bruce?

People are always moving on to bigger and better things.

So the more time that passes after the final purchases, the more will trade hands.

I would venture to guess that there will be A LOT of false high prices for a while; these are the people who bought them thinking they could make a quick buck. Much like the $200k+ prices on eBay.

[Bruce H.]

I think a lot were purchased with the intention of selling them over a short period of time. Been over 2 years for many now. If prices are strong, and they appear to be, that'll be a strong motivator to sell. Lots of other new and appealing cars to tempt owners into a new direction as the OP put it.

[Scott_in_fl]

Might be a lot of them being unloaded then.

With respect to ACR-E's, "a lot" is a relative term. My understanding is that only a few hundred total ACR-E's were ever built over 16/17. I thought I understood that be to less than 400 overall.

Numbers like those will never result in a ton of units for sale at any one time even if every single one was purchased to flip (and we know that not to be the case -- and we know many have been exported, many will be destroyed, etc.). Recall that Ford built more than 4,000 Ford GT's over 05/06.

While there are definitely some speculators with Gen V ACR-E's intending to unload them quickly for a profit, I've not seen any indication that they account for a substantial volume of the production.

I think we'll continue to see $180k-$200k listings being thrown about on eBay for the foreseeable future (next 12 months). After that, the cars are likely to find their way to owners that will hold them for at least a few years and the number of cars available for sale will diminish even further.

[Murpowa]

Scott, for all of us who read this board...


Please, PLEASE give it up already


Thank you
:t0152:

[99RT10]

Start an ebay auction, $1, no reserve. See where it ends up. That would be your value.


Send me the link first..... :D

[Bruce H.]

Scott, SRT said at NVE2 that somewhere around two thirds of all '16 production was ACR's as I recall, and I'm going to guess an even higher percentage for 2017. What was total '16-17?

I suspect more of the 17's with next to no miles to flip first actually, and first indication wouldn't likely to be until the spring. Guess we'll see.

[ViperDC]

With respect to ACR-E's, "a lot" is a relative term. My understanding is that only a few hundred total ACR-E's were ever built over 16/17. I thought I understood that be to less than 400 overall.
.

Wrong, they made 800+

I mean there are 200+ SE cars alone. Not saying that is some huge amount of cars but youre way off on the total number they built

[ViperDC]

I think we'll continue to see $180k-$200k listings being thrown about on eBay for the foreseeable future (next 12 months).

that "$200k" pink ACR has now been lowered to $150k and no bids. maybe the seller came down to earth. there are a number of them available for $150 or less buy it now so you know less that asking buys em...

[SharpMan]

Wrong, they made 800+

I mean there are 200+ SE cars alone. Not saying that is some huge amount of cars but youre way off on the total number they built

Much ado about nothing Porsche made around 8,000 991 GT3 RS...more than regular GT3s!

[ViperDC]

Much ado about nothing Porsche made around 8,000 991 GT3 RS

I highly doubt that. Where is that figure from?

Like I said, that is not a big number of cars for the Viper but he was just way off on the number made

[olebrum]

Copy from earlyer thread: (baking the same cake over and over again)
Stop eating eachother :t0152:
Does anyone know how many TOTAL ACR-E that is produced in 2016 and 2017 included the GTC based models : 1of1, and those GTC models with the sticker saying its a Voodoo2, GTS-R , 1:28, etc.... the biggest difference on this cars are the stickers. ( carbon, colour seatbelt, speakers is different as this could be chosen on order of the car)
For me its seems to be between 500 and 800 ACR-E...
The ACR-E is a Rare car, and will rise in value when owners start`s to destroy their cars on the racetrack.
The only obstacle will be if Viper is reborn again in 2020!
Time will show.

[CocaineWhiteACR]

Thank you for the replies guys, hopefully more chime in. As far as sticker, I paid around 120k with about 1k miles. It's hard to base the value since all the cars I have been viewing are up and down on pricing, as someone else noted.

[Scott_in_fl]

Scott, for all of us who read this board...


Please, PLEASE give it up already


Thank you
:t0152:

Don't know what is offending you, as all I discussed was the production number that I understand is approx. 400 units for ACR-E. Oh, and that I believe we'll continue to see ads on eBay for $180k-$200k.

Anyway, for those that like to contribute to a meaningful discussion, I thought we learned that relatively few ACR-E's were produced in 2016 (out of about 600 total units of all models) and that something just less than 400 ACR-E's were produced in 2017 (which had about 800 total units of all models).

So, I suppose the number could be 500-600. But it's likely nowhere near 800 as that would mean that 2/3's of the 2016 production was ACR-E, which is certainly inaccurate.

[13COBRA]

Scott, with all due respect, you are the one member on this board that thinks these cars will appreciate out of the gate.

[ViperSRT]

Don't know what is offending you, as all I discussed was the production number that I understand is approx. 400 units for ACR-E. Oh, and that I believe we'll continue to see ads on eBay for $180k-$200k.

Anyway, for those that like to contribute to a meaningful discussion, I thought we learned that relatively few ACR-E's were produced in 2016 (out of about 600 total units of all models) and that something just less than 400 ACR-E's were produced in 2017 (which had about 800 total units of all models).

So, I suppose the number could be 500-600. But it's likely nowhere near 800 as that would mean that 2/3's of the 2016 production was ACR-E, which is certainly inaccurate.

There were 600 ACR in 2017, of which 8 were ACR and the remainder ACR-E. Two thirds of those were GTC. Rare, no. Desired, obviously.

[Next Phase]

My 2 pennies, I think we are in a temporary bubble....and some of the $160-$200k cars are sitting (sure, some have sold - especially overseas).

I think there was a scramble to pick up the last remaining 2017 Vipers and many dealers think they are sitting on a gold mines.

As time goes by, people will move on to the latest / greatest. (New ZR1 comes to mind...maybe Lambo?)

I think supply caught demand and the prices will start to go down with time (as early as Spring / Summer). Just my speculation, but to be honest...surprised any have sold over MSRP when looking back to how poor sales were in 2013.

I have been talking with dealers that are asking $30k over for non- ACR's and they admitted they weren't interested in selling... I told them they had the right price for that. LOL

OP, if you are interested in selling, shoot me a PM as I'm looking for the latest / greatest but may also have a dealer that would be interested (GM is a friend and VOA member).

[38D]

What seems different about the ACR-E is that is pulled in non-Viper diehards...like me. It’s a great looking car with insane performance. 6-800 cars is a very low volume if a car has broad appeal. I never buy cars as investments, but this once does have a chance to appreciate IMO. It just might take 5-10 more years.

[Hemibob]

I have a 16 ACR-E Black, brass monkey wheels with ARHs, no cats, arrow box, lowered drivers seat, air box heatsheald,underdrive pulley,front and rear tow hooks, xpel clear bra from the doors forward 8500ish miles and never been on the track. Willing to trade for money

[Next Phase]

I have a 16 ACR-E Black, brass monkey wheels with ARHs, no cats, arrow box, lowered drivers seat, air box heatsheald,underdrive pulley,front and rear tow hooks, xpel clear bra from the doors forward 8500ish miles and never been on the track. Willing to trade for money

What did it put down with the tune?

Are you the original owner? (Location?)

Lastly, how many dollars are you looking for in trade?

[Hemibob]

611 with a HP tune. Now it has the less aggressive arrow tune. I am the one and only owner and looking for 128k I’m in so ca!

[Policy Limits]

In 2037:

[Scott_in_fl]

Scott, with all due respect, you are the one member on this board that thinks these cars will appreciate out of the gate.

Okay, if you want to discuss future values, we can do that. It is true that I believe the cars will appreciate. That much has been an accurate prediction thus far. Zero mile final year ACR-E's have sold for and will continue to sell for more than MSRP. The average is probably $15k over by now.

It is not true that I am the only "one member on this board that thinks" this way. I kinda wish that I was, because the more people that do not believe it, the more likely it is to happen.

Now, I've also publicly voiced my criticism of some of the eBay listings at $200k+ because I do not believe the pricing is there yet. It will get there, but we first have to get through the new inventory on dealer lots, and then get through the speculator cars. Once all of the production is in the hands of legitimate "holders" (i.e. people purchasing the car for reasons other than resale), then the prices will stabilize and should move higher.

That timing is going to be very close to coinciding with electric propulsion starting to come online in a big way and the desire to accumulate the last of the fossil-powered beasts will kick into an absolute mania. We may be 5-10 years out, but those days are coming and your car will be worth far more than it is today. This does not take into account the fact that global wealth is expected to be substantially higher at that point then it is today, which also moves expected values for American classics on its own. Just look around if you do not believe it. The smart money is piling up on collector automobile assets.

[Arizona Vipers]

Okay, if you want to discuss future values, we can do that. It is true that I believe the cars will appreciate. That much has been an accurate prediction thus far. Zero mile final year ACR-E's have sold for and will continue to sell for more than MSRP. The average is probably $15k over by now.

It is not true that I am the only "one member on this board that thinks" this way. I kinda wish that I was, because the more people that do not believe it, the more likely it is to happen.

Now, I've also publicly voiced my criticism of some of the eBay listings at $200k+ because I do not believe the pricing is there yet. It will get there, but we first have to get through the new inventory on dealer lots, and then get through the speculator cars. Once all of the production is in the hands of legitimate "holders" (i.e. people purchasing the car for reasons other than resale), then the prices will stabilize and should move higher.

That timing is going to be very close to coinciding with electric propulsion starting to come online in a big way and the desire to accumulate the last of the fossil-powered beasts will kick into an absolute mania. We may be 5-10 years out, but those days are coming and your car will be worth far more than it is today. This does not take into account the fact that global wealth is expected to be substantially higher at that point then it is today, which also moves expected values for American classics on its own. Just look around if you do not believe it. The smart money is piling up on collector automobile assets.

I agree the ACR will be going up in value, especially the zero mile ones. This is coming from a guy that bought a 2K mile Ford GT for $142K in 2011.

[ViperGeorge]

I agree the ACR will be going up in value, especially the zero mile ones. This is coming from a guy that bought a 2K mile Ford GT for $142K in 2011.

Plus 1 on this (well not the Ford GT comment, I wish!!)

[Scott_in_fl]

I agree the ACR will be going up in value, especially the zero mile ones. This is coming from a guy that bought a 2K mile Ford GT for $142K in 2011.

Nice pick up on the FGT! But you had the vision and the ability to grab it at the right time (i.e. right before they started to really lift). Excellent call. I had the vision, but not the ability at the time. However, I now keep a pretty close eye on those cars hoping to catch a deal sooner or later.

[Policy Limits]

Just make sure you hang on to your baby's birth certificate :bth_smiley_formula1

[ViperGeorge]

Just make sure you hang on to your baby's birth certificate :bth_smiley_formula1

How did you keep it? I thought you had to turn it in to title it.

[ACRucrazy]

OK i’m jealous!

[Policy Limits]

Lol you do need to give to the registrar for the title. Gastman actually misplaced mine and when he found it a few days after delivery he shipped it for registration purposes. Yikes.

[1OF1ACR]

It's pretty simple. Supply and demand and uniqueness. I too believe we are in a weird bubble right now. You can find a deal at MSRP still and some are paying way over. The local dealership just sold a new ACR-E 1of1 for $40k over. And the Voodoo on Mecum did the same. But someone on here sold a '16 ACR-E for $125k. Those are TRUE indicators.

I truly think that the majority of people buying them today are the ones that are going to be holding on to them and they won't be changing hands once they find a home. THIS will drive up prices in a few years. i.e. Supply and Demand.

Uniqueness is obvious with the end of an era of true analog driving. I'll beet a dead horse with.... last Detroit, last drop in motor, last manual, last big block, last naturally asp, last etc.......

If you have an ACR-E hang on to it. If you want one, go find a good deal while they are still out there.

[Special Ed]

Don't know what is offending you, as all I discussed was the production number that I understand is approx. 400 units for ACR-E. Oh, and that I believe we'll continue to see ads on eBay for $180k-$200k.

Anyway, for those that like to contribute to a meaningful discussion, I thought we learned that relatively few ACR-E's were produced in 2016 (out of about 600 total units of all models) and that something just less than 400 ACR-E's were produced in 2017 (which had about 800 total units of all models).

So, I suppose the number could be 500-600. But it's likely nowhere near 800 as that would mean that 2/3's of the 2016 production was ACR-E, which is certainly inaccurate.

76 to 80% of the 2017 production of 870+ cars were ACR-E. So 660 to 690 in 2017 alone.

[swisspower]

A white 2016 ACRE clean title/one owner 4500 miles sold 3 month ago at a Texas dealership for 107K.

[13COBRA]

FGT is different than the ACR.

Scott I hope you're right. I guess time will tell.

[dewilmoth]

A white 2016 ACRE clean title/one owner 4500 miles sold 3 month ago at a Texas dealership for 107K.

Within minutes and they didn’t realize what they had. That’s was the deal of the century.

[Policy Limits]

It's pretty simple. Supply and demand and uniqueness. I too believe we are in a weird bubble right now. You can find a deal at MSRP still and some are paying way over. The local dealership just sold a new ACR-E 1of1 for $40k over. And the Voodoo on Mecum did the same. But someone on here sold a '16 ACR-E for $125k. Those are TRUE indicators.

I truly think that the majority of people buying them today are the ones that are going to be holding on to them and they won't be changing hands once they find a home. THIS will drive up prices in a few years. i.e. Supply and Demand.

Uniqueness is obvious with the end of an era of true analog driving. I'll beet a dead horse with.... last Detroit, last drop in motor, last manual, last big block, last naturally asp, last etc.......

If you have an ACR-E hang on to it. If you want one, go find a good deal while they are still out there.

Perfectly stated. Screw the haters.

[98intrigue]

Within minutes and they didn’t realize what they had. That’s was the deal of the century.

I agree.... another one of those "look what I paid - that is now the market" posts.

[Policy Limits]

Ha. Ten years ago my local Ferrari dealer offered to sell me his Dino for 50k. I said no because it wasn't a real Ferrari plus it was yellow and not red. His reply was that's what everyone else told him. Now it's worth 1/2 million a decade later. Epic fail. Sigh.

[ACRSNK]

Just make sure you hang on to your baby's birth certificate :bth_smiley_formula1

Made copies of mine before the dealer handed it in for the title. Good documentation to have on your vehicle and not many people have them or copies of them.

[ACRSNK]

Scott, for all of us who read this board...


Please, PLEASE give it up already


Thank you
:t0152:

If you think he's bad, you should check out the Ford GT forum and see how those guys talk about their cars. Probably why the FGT values are so high...

[Policy Limits]

I look at so many FGT carfax reports on vehicles listed for sale. They all seem to have open manufacturer recalls for the airbags. Owners prolly don't want to go to the average Ford dealer for the service. If so, sounds and feels awfully familiar.....

[ViperDC]

But it's likely nowhere near 800 as that would mean that 2/3's of the 2016 production was ACR-E, which is certainly inaccurate.

Wrong again my man. Its likely more than 800. There were around 400 built in 2016 and then with just the SE's alone you're talking over 600. Then all those GTC and non-GTC yet non SE cars. 800 is probably conservative

[ViperDC]

Ha. Ten years ago my local Ferrari dealer offered to sell me his Dino for 50k. I said no because it wasn't a real Ferrari plus it was yellow and not red. His reply was that's what everyone else told him. Now it's worth 1/2 million a decade later. Epic fail. Sigh.

You passed on a Dino in 2008 for $50k (from a dealer, no less)? Either that story is bogus or you are a complete idiot, no offense

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I look at so many FGT carfax reports on vehicles listed for sale. They all seem to have open manufacturer recalls for the airbags. Owners prolly don't want to go to the average Ford dealer for the service. If so, sounds and feels awfully familiar.....

http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php/34369-All-I-want-for-Christmas-is

[dewilmoth]

Wrong again my man. Its likely more than 800. There were around 400 built in 2016 and then with just the SE's alone you're talking over 600. Then all those GTC and non-GTC yet non SE cars. 800 is probably conservative

Yep. The number I’ve seen is roughly 973 between 2016-2017. 400 isn’t even close.

2016
90 GTC ACR
290 SRT ACR

2017
400 GTC ACR
193 SRT ACR

[Policy Limits]

Meanwhile they make 3,000 Huracans and 3,000 488's per year. :)

[Scott_in_fl]

Wrong again my man. Its likely more than 800. There were around 400 built in 2016 and then with just the SE's alone you're talking over 600. Then all those GTC and non-GTC yet non SE cars. 800 is probably conservative

You really think 600 vs 800 is going to make that big a difference in future values? I believe the polnt everyone is making is that there is a literal smidge of these cars that were ever produced compared to any of the competition.

[Bruce H.]

I don't pretend to know what the market will be 3 or 4 months from now but I can't see an owner of any Gen V model or year selling and receiving close to MSRP, regardless of what stories are circulating the forums and internet at the time. Not for a previously registered car, and regardless of very low mileage. A dealer selling a brand new one might get lucky and get way over list, helped or made possible by the ability to take a trade, lease or finance, but it seems unlikely that any buyer would pay that for a used one to a private party any time soon. They would have simply bought a new one instead if they were prepared to spend that amount.

Second hand buyers expect to pay less for a one or two year old car...not the same or more a few months after they could have bought a new one themselves. I'm sure there's the odd guy who missed getting his choice of a new one, and may be desperate and willing to pay large for a used Viper, but others will also likely consider the new ZR1 or something else. I just have trouble imagining private sale demand supporting msrp level pricing in the short term.

I would think resale pricing will follow the typical trend of other highly desirable cars that ended production due to slow sales...dropping rather quickly before increasing slowly. As an owner I'm hoping prices stay high, but realistically I think market factors in 2018 will result in all Viper model resale pricing following the typical trend.

Bruce

[OneofOneViper]

I don't pretend to know what the market will be 3 or 4 months from now but I can't see an owner of any Gen V model or year selling and receiving close to MSRP, regardless of what stories are circulating the forums and internet at the time. Not for a previously registered car, and regardless of very low mileage. A dealer selling a brand new one might get lucky and get way over list, helped or made possible by the ability to take a trade, lease or finance, but it seems unlikely that any buyer would pay that for a used one to a private party any time soon. They would have simply bought a new one instead if they were prepared to spend that amount.

Second hand buyers expect to pay less for a one or two year old car...not the same or more a few months after they could have bought a new one themselves. I'm sure there's the odd guy who missed getting his choice of a new one, and may be desperate and willing to pay large for a used Viper, but others will also likely consider the new ZR1 or something else. I just have trouble imagining private sale demand supporting msrp level pricing in the short term.

I would think resale pricing will follow the typical trend of other highly desirable cars that ended production due to slow sales...dropping rather quickly before increasing slowly. As an owner I'm hoping prices stay high, but realistically I think market factors in 2018 will result in all Viper model resale pricing following the typical trend.

Bruce

While all your logic is sound if it were true, the reality is that 1 of 1 vipers were sold out a year ago, 10 months before production ended. Someone couldn't just "go out" and buy one unless they were willing to compromise on what they really wanted in most cases. Sure some were on lots---not the ones that people wanted. And the ones people did/do want are over MSRP.

[Policy Limits]

The speculation is pretty pointless. What will be will be. If they go up great. If they depreciate, chances are you were a millionaire to begin with when you dropped six figs on what's typically a depreciating asset. So it's a win win situation either way. Drive and smile already.

[Bruce H.]

While all your logic is sound if it were true, the reality is that 1 of 1 vipers were sold out a year ago, 10 months before production ended. Someone couldn't just "go out" and buy one unless they were willing to compromise on what they really wanted in most cases. Sure some were on lots---not the ones that people wanted. And the ones people did/do want are over MSRP.

Have several used ones actually sold privately over MSRP to establish that over-MSRP market value on the more desirable color schemes and options, and what of the less desirable ones? How much of an effect do you think presumably lower prices of the less desirable ones will affect the others, and do you think second hand buyers will consider the lack of choices now as the compromise that new buyers felt? And will the more desirable color schemes be worth more in the resale market than others with lower mileage?

I don't know the answers to these questions but I do suspect the resale market post-production could be quite different than before it ended. One indicator might be the used market for the '14 TA. Three colors, no options what-so-ever. Many thought the orange was the absolute must have color, yet the used market values them all pretty much the same. Those buyers don't mind compromising on colors and features available on other models. Maybe a relateable example, maybe not.

[ACRSNK]

Have several used ones actually sold privately over MSRP to establish that over-MSRP market value on the more desirable color schemes and options, and what of the less desirable ones? How much of an effect do you think presumably lower prices of the less desirable ones will affect the others, and do you think second hand buyers will consider the lack of choices now as the compromise that new buyers felt? And will the more desirable color schemes be worth more in the resale market than others with lower mileage?

I don't know the answers to these questions but I do suspect the resale market post-production could be quite different than before it ended. One indicator might be the used market for the '14 TA. Three colors, no options what-so-ever. Many thought the orange was the absolute must have color, yet the used market values them all pretty much the same. Those buyers don't mind compromising on colors and features available on other models. Maybe a relateable example, maybe not.

Used market favors orange TA’s over the white and black. I think that is pretty well established. You new here?

[Bruce H.]

Used market favors orange TA’s over the white and black. I think that is pretty well established. You new here?

Nope...just well informed.

[ACRSNK]

Nope...just well informed.

More like misinformed. Ask anyone on here and you will absolutely get the same response...The Orange TA is numero uno as far as TA’s are concerned.

[Scott_in_fl]

The speculation is pretty pointless. What will be will be. If they go up great. If they depreciate, chances are you were a millionaire to begin with when you dropped six figs on what's typically a depreciating asset. So it's a win win situation either way. Drive and smile already.

^^^ Amen! Although it is fun to get everyone worked up about it :)


More like misinformed. Ask anyone on here and you will absolutely get the same response...The Orange TA is numero uno as far as TA’s are concerned.

I believe this is true, but the price differential is likely less than 5%.

[ACRSNK]

^^^ Amen! Although it is fun to get everyone worked up about it :)



I believe this is true, but the price differential is likely less than 5%.

You really like to interject values into everything don’t you? You an accountant or something? My point had nothing to do with values. Simply stating the facts...Orange TA’s are the top dog in the TA arena.

[Scott_in_fl]

Funny that you mention that. Yes, the CPA is one of my professional certifications.

[Bruce H.]

When I said "the used market values them all pretty much the same" I was simply offering a general observation as it might apply to the topic of this thread. The reaction however illustrates another. The details of so few resales are known and posted on this forum and once repeated a few times can rather carelessly be thought to represent "the market value". I know of several TA sales that weren't listed on the forum and the confidential selling prices were considerably higher than those discussed here. The two highest were not as many would have expected, but all were close enough to claim that the used market values them all pretty much the same.

The part of the post that directly addresses the OP's question about selling in the near future (as opposed to long-term speculation) hasn't been addressed yet...


Have several used ones actually sold privately over MSRP to establish that over-MSRP market value on the more desirable color schemes and options, and what of the less desirable ones? How much of an effect do you think presumably lower prices of the less desirable ones will affect the others, and do you think second hand buyers will consider the lack of choices now as the compromise that new buyers felt? And will the more desirable color schemes be worth more in the resale market than others with lower mileage?


I think perceived estimated market values varies widely across the country and even within a single market, being more of a broad range than anything else. We have such limited data points, and so few cars being sold, that the amount a car will sell for can't be predicted. Best strategy is to ask lots and be prepared to give the perfect buyer lots of time to find his or her dream Viper! And I wouldn't necessarily wait until spring as the serious buyer is likely searching for his dream Viper 24/7.

Bruce

[13COBRA]

Funny that you mention that. Yes, the CPA is one of my professional certifications.

One of 37.

[slitherv10]

NO disrespect the the OP and their question but,

Whether you go one direction and sell it or the other direction and keep it, you're obviously stuck with the decision becasue you're hoping if you sell it that it doesn't gain value and you lose out.

OK...lets see.....you sell the car and take your 160K or whatever it sells for and invest it in real estate and wait 5,10,15, 20 years and tell me which investment made more money, your Viper Extreme or the home investment.

If your second guessing the car as in for the love of it and you have your sights on another, then its like a relationship and get rid of it and move on.

But if this is an investment decision as most responses on here are gearing you to believe or not believe, you have to shake your head and be real. A car is not an investment, no matter how much it gains over time. By the time its worth something of incredible value like a real estate investment, you'll be too old to care and or off the earth to another land.

[ViperGeorge]

I think that most of us own Vipers not because we expect them to increase in value (that would be nice) but because we like the experience of driving them. I can look back to when I had the chance to buy a Ford GT for $159,000 from an Aston Martin dealer. 4 option car, red with white stripes, and with 700 miles on it. Sure I wish I had it now but I thought about it, not because I thought it would increase in value, but because i thought it was gorgeous. Instead I bought another Viper. Go figure.

[IndyRon]

Bruce, many of these folk have whipped themselves into such a frenzy over values that Policy Limits actually posted the most rational statement above regarding the concept of whether they are depreciating and net worth. That’s quite telling. Like dogs that get so excited that they bite themselves. :)

[Bruce H.]

Haha, so true Ron! He's actually done that a couple of times recently and makes me think there still might be hope for him :)

[Policy Limits]

Perhaps it's due to new year's wishes? Ha.

OP: here ya go: http://inventory.mgmsl.com/web/used/Dodge-Viper-2016-Warrensville-Heights-Ohio/41037139/

[ViperJon]

OP: here ya go: http://inventory.mgmsl.com/web/used/Dodge-Viper-2016-Warrensville-Heights-Ohio/41037139/

For 170K you can have my GTS-R with half that mileage.

[Policy Limits]

Do you accept bitcoin as payment?

[13COBRA]

For 170K you can have my GTS-R with half that mileage.

For $170k you can get a 1998 GTS-R with 220 miles. lol


http://www.viperexchange.com/vehicle-details/1998-dodge-viper-gtsr--24-gt2-tx-id-22049963

[ACRSNK]

For 170K you can have my GTS-R with half that mileage.

Selling already?

[catwood]

Prices will plummet soon.

As I have bought one and quit shopping so 90%+ of the pent up demand is gone.

[Policy Limits]

The sky is falling! !!!!!!!

[1of1TA1.0]

Congratulations Catwood, I knew you would get one.


Prices will plummet soon.

As I have bought one and quit shopping so 90%+ of the pent up demand is gone.

[ACRSNK]

Prices will plummet soon.

As I have bought one and quit shopping so 90%+ of the pent up demand is gone.

So you finally got that $90K ACR-E you were looking for?

Congrats!

[ViperJon]

Selling already?

For 170K? In a heartbeat.

[Policy Limits]

U could get 170 all day for that thing. But then replace with what? In our world of hefty whips everything else out there is wimpy, wimpy, wimpy....

[slitherv10]

U could get 170 all day for that thing. But then replace with what? In our world of hefty whips everything else out there is wimpy, wimpy, wimpy....

For now you may be right when comparing what is out there that is production and new. But, depending on what the other companies bring to the table in the next few years, the ACR or Viper in general may not be as enticing or prestige. The name of the game is, sell now in the anticipation that others do top the Viper and thus bring values down or, hold on to it and hope it holds onto its top tier status. This is all of course in the nature that all you are is a poser and want the best of the best. If not, and you love the Viper for what it is then there is no argument here. Keep the Viper. I for one am voting that cars like the ZR1, GTR and even Ford (Mustang) will bring out some more powerful and track worthy cars then the Viper can handle. Unfortunately all because time will stand still for the Viper and the others are moving ahead.

[AZTVR]

U could get 170 all day for that thing. But then replace with what? In our world of hefty whips everything else out there is wimpy, wimpy, wimpy....

But if it is just garage art, and is an investment item for him, then there are other cars that would serve the same purposes, I would think. Although I don't share those desires for car ownership, I can understand it. As I strolled through Cars and Coffee yesterday, and imagined winning the lottery, the Vipers were not my only aspirational vehicles. I was thinking of the warehouse I would have to buy, and how much of a hassle that would be. Luckily, I didn't win the lottery last night.

[Policy Limits]

The fact that time will stand still for the viper is what makes it extra special. I was just reading how Sergio wants to add a Ferrari suv to his line up. Ewwww..talk about poser status....

Ps: replacing a GTS-R with a mustang, ZR1 or GTR is an epic downgrade. That's not to say that there won't be faster cars made in the future. They clearly exist now. However that doesn't negate the fact that Viper currently wins in performance, exclusivity, history, price point and potential collectibility. Nothing else comes close and no future make or model will ever be able to change that component of automotive super car history. .002

[ACRSNK]

Plus the Viper just looks nasty!!!!

[Policy Limits]

The distant relative of the Shelby Cobra....the Venomous V10 engine intended for Lamborghini....the last ten cylinder motor exclusively with manual transmission. ...the last production car with side exhaust pipes....largest naturally aspirated engine in the world....widest tires of any car made...looks? Meh, I guess it looks OK too....LOL

[Scott_in_fl]

There will be other, faster cars, but that's not where I see the value in our Gen V's. Air cooled 911's are slow as all hell but I still want one. Why? Because of the way the leather interior smells, the way the engine sounds with its whirring fan, the steering feel, the clunk the door makes when it closes, the way that none of the HVAC controls make any sense to a non-Pcar fan, etc., etc., etc. Some cars are just born special. Porsche used to have a knack for that. If you drive a Gen V ACR, then you know this is a special car too with character and visceral sensation unmatched by anything else currently in production.

And yes, it looks good too. We took the car to a brunch with friends today and when we walked out to leave, it was literally 30 minutes before we could go anywhere because of passersby snapping photos, wanting to pose with the car, asking questions, etc. It was nuts!

[Bruce H.]

Track records helped shine a spotlight on Vipers but the car's appeal is rooted in a very unique mix of lust-worthy attributes that ensures its place among the analogue sports car greats. It's so often the way that special cars are not fully appreciated until years later, and there's no doubt in my mind that will be the case with these. Other new models will join the list of greats due to their own special virtues but none will replace another. They remain sports car legends forever!

[ACRSNK]

There will be other, faster cars, but that's not where I see the value in our Gen V's. Air cooled 911's are slow as all hell but I still want one. Why? Because of the way the leather interior smells, the way the engine sounds with its whirring fan, the steering feel, the clunk the door makes when it closes, the way that none of the HVAC controls make any sense to a non-Pcar fan, etc., etc., etc. Some cars are just born special. Porsche used to have a knack for that. If you drive a Gen V ACR, then you know this is a special car too with character and visceral sensation unmatched by anything else currently in production.

And yes, it looks good too. We took the car to a brunch with friends today and when we walked out to leave, it was literally 30 minutes before we could go anywhere because of passersby snapping photos, wanting to pose with the car, asking questions, etc. It was nuts!

I hope no one was sitting on your hood when you came out.

[Policy Limits]

It's gonna be a long ten years....

[Scott_in_fl]

I hope no one was sitting on your hood when you came out.

Ha, that happened once with my Blk/Sil '06 coupe. Came out of a restaurant one night and found a model laying on the hood for a photo. Luckily, she probably only weighed about 105lbs., so nothing was damaged. She had a few drinks in her, so all was forgiven. They were also supposed to send me the photo, but I never got it :(

[ViperDC]

You really think 600 vs 800 is going to make that big a difference in future values? I believe the polnt everyone is making is that there is a literal smidge of these cars that were ever produced compared to any of the competition.

Never said that all. Please point out where I did? Good luck

Just pointing out you're clueless (shocking) about how many of these cars were built

[Policy Limits]

How many were built? 30k in 1/4 century?

[ViperSRT]

How many were built? 30k in 1/4 century?

31947

[ACRSNK]

Ha, that happened once with my Blk/Sil '06 coupe. Came out of a restaurant one night and found a model laying on the hood for a photo. Luckily, she probably only weighed about 105lbs., so nothing was damaged. She had a few drinks in her, so all was forgiven. They were also supposed to send me the photo, but I never got it :(

You should get more than a photo for that.

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ Yeah, you're right. This was back in the good old days, when everyone was living high on the hog. I remember being out with friends that night and everyone was having a great time. I was likely upset at first but that did not last long. No damage, which was lucky. I'm much more protective of the new car, and would likely go ballistic if the same thing happened this time around.

Regarding the production conversation of FGT vs. Viper, we need to drill down a bit here. The Gen V ACR and ACR-E were also only built over a two-year span and those are the cars that wealthy individuals will want on a rack in their garage next to their '05 FGT, '69 GTO Judge, and '63 split window StingRay.

A "rack spot" in a collector's garage is not going to just any of the 30,000 Vipers ever produced because, by and large, pre-Gen V cars were very inferior in build quality and fit and finish (compared to Euro sports car brands, especially the interiors). That said, I could see a '92 Gen I, '96 b/w GTS, '98 GTS-R, maybe some FE's make it into such a garage because of historic significance, but by and large prior Vipers were considered cheaply built. Gen V legitimately changed that and now the car comes off as a high end, polished product that even Ferrari owners can appreciate. On top of that, FCA knocked it out of the park when they engineered the current ACR packages. Prior ACR's were great track performers, but the current package is astounding. The reaction wherever these cars are seen is undeniably exuberant.

So that's a long way of saying that I do not believe we should be comparing 30,000 Vipers to 4,000 FGT's and concluding that Vipers cannot appreciate like the '05-'06 FGT because their production volume was 7x that of the FGT. In order for these types of cars to appreciate, they need to be attractive to folks that can bid up the prices. The FGT became attractive to wealthy buyers that wanted a rare piece of Americana that their neighbors could not go out and replicate easily. With only 600-800 Gen V ACR's ever built, getting one of these even more rare pieces of Americana onto that "rack spot" in your garage 5-10 years from now will not come cheap.

[Bruce H.]

Thoughts on the collectibility of the 159 SRT brand TA's? Took back the Production Car Record from the Corvette ZR1. It was also the PR win Viper desperately needed in 2014. Possibly no ACR without it! And it's a kick-ass car to drive and track!

[ACRucrazy]

Thoughts on the collectibility of the 159 SRT brand TA's? Took back the Production Car Record from the Corvette ZR1. It was also the PR win Viper desperately needed in 2014. Possibly no ACR without it! And it's a kick-ass car to drive and track!

LOl

[Bruce H.]

LOl

Those were pretty desperate days for Viper sales. There may not have been a 2017 Viper had it not been for the '16 ACR either.

[ACRSNK]

Thoughts on the collectibility of the 159 SRT brand TA's? Took back the Production Car Record from the Corvette ZR1. It was also the PR win Viper desperately needed in 2014. Possibly no ACR without it! And it's a kick-ass car to drive and track!

TA’s became yesterday’s news as soon as the ACR’s arrived. Who wants one of those? ;)

[Policy Limits]

Plus it (TA)barely beat the old generation ZR1. It was old news when it debutted. Haha

[Angleiron]

If you can get more for that ACR than you paid for it then now is the time to take the money and run. It is a fantasy that an ACR or any Viper is going to skyrocket in value...just going to note some observations.

1) I watch the car auctions from time to time. Cars that have had historic race histories bring in a lot of coin, and unless you own that specific car that has won it means nothing. I have seen cars that were of the same year, model, rarity but did not have any racing history get a fraction of what a car with the race history did money wise.

2) In the big scheme of things our Vipers are dinosaurs compared to what else is out there. The technology that is available in the cars today makes anyone a better driver that what they are...the Viper does not. The deck is and always has been stacked against this car in the media...so what car would someone buy...positive reviews, make me a better driver car, or a media labeled deathtrap Viper?

3) The Viper in any form will be mediocre as a track car for the weekend warrior in the future. With so many cars with active aero coming out they will be faster, lighter, more HP...everything. I will bet that gas racing cars get banned eventually and everything will go electric. They have electric racing series now...that is the future.

4) The Viper will become nostalgic...that is a safe bet. But where things are heading with cars these days that is the best you can hope for. In that not too distant future the youth of America won't even have to know how to drive a car...just get it, tell it where you want to go...and that's it. Don't believe me? Gas car production is being banned in the near future. Look at Oregon and the panic they have in having to pump their own gas now in certain places. Read articles were people did not even know where the gas lid was on their car. That people is a window into the future car owners...sit back with no involvement and the car will take you where ever you want to go.

So strike while the iron is hot and sell that car to get as much as you can out of it now as if you are banking for a bigger payoff in the future it is a losing bet.

[ACRSNK]

If you can get more for that ACR than you paid for it then now is the time to take the money and run. It is a fantasy that an ACR or any Viper is going to skyrocket in value...just going to note some observations.

1) I watch the car auctions from time to time. Cars that have had historic race histories bring in a lot of coin, and unless you own that specific car that has won it means nothing. I have seen cars that were of the same year, model, rarity but did not have any racing history get a fraction of what a car with the race history did money wise.

2) In the big scheme of things our Vipers are dinosaurs compared to what else is out there. The technology that is available in the cars today makes anyone a better driver that what they are...the Viper does not. The deck is and always has been stacked against this car in the media...so what car would someone buy...positive reviews, make me a better driver car, or a media labeled deathtrap Viper?

3) The Viper in any form will be mediocre as a track car for the weekend warrior in the future. With so many cars with active aero coming out they will be faster, lighter, more HP...everything. I will bet that gas racing cars get banned eventually and everything will go electric. They have electric racing series now...that is the future.

4) The Viper will become nostalgic...that is a safe bet. But where things are heading with cars these days that is the best you can hope for. In that not too distant future the youth of America won't even have to know how to drive a car...just get it, tell it where you want to go...and that's it. Don't believe me? Gas car production is being banned in the near future. Look at Oregon and the panic they have in having to pump their own gas now in certain places. Read articles were people did not even know where the gas lid was on their car. That people is a window into the future car owners...sit back with no involvement and the car will take you where ever you want to go.

So strike while the iron is hot and sell that car to get as much as you can out of it now as if you are banking for a bigger payoff in the future it is a losing bet.

What is your definition of “skyrocket in value”? I think some of the more sought after Viper models have already done that. ACR’s and SE cars routinely sell for well over sticker.

[Scott_in_fl]

Thoughts on the collectibility of the 159 SRT brand TA's? Took back the Production Car Record from the Corvette ZR1. It was also the PR win Viper desperately needed in 2014. Possibly no ACR without it! And it's a kick-ass car to drive and track!

Because there are so few (relatively speaking) ACR models over the Gen V production years, and because the Gen V would have been the first gens to truly approach world class levels of build quality and fit/finish (at least arguably so, and certainly passable to the discriminating buyer when compared to say garden variety Porsche 911), it is likely that they all rise before prior gens rise (but for '92, '96 GTS, '98 GTSR, etc.) because they will be the next layer of cars that I imagine someone would like having if they could not find an ACR for their collection. The TA does have significance.

But the reality is that these "collector" types want the eye candy on their racks. If the Acura NSX looked like the new FGT, and if the new FGT looked like the Acura, we would be seeing NSX values in the stratosphere and Ford stuck with a dud. So, the nonsense about race pedigree, commemorating a historic car, is mostly BS. The car looks sick (just like the '05-'06 did) and that is why the vast majority of people want it.

As it translates to Vipers, the Gen V ACR-E is instantly recognizable and looks vastly different from the non-ACR models. That, I believe, will be a very important factor going forward. The fact that it also kicked everyone's ass on nearly every track in the US is icing on the cake and justifies its wild appearance (as opposed to say a Honda Civic with pasted on wing kit).

As I mentioned above, I was concerned that the car would look silly with that giant wing. Had that happened, this argument would have gone out the window. I actually had a non-ACR GTC on order first because I was convinced that the ACR looked ridiculous for the street. The last thing I'd want is people laughing if I ever took it for a spin anywhere other than the track. So, I went to see PDV's car, which is local to me in So. Florida. As soon as he opened the garage, I was convinced that the car was as bad ass as it gets. Had I not gone to see that car in person, I would be driving a non-ACR today.

I think the public has the same reaction when they see the ACR, and especially the ACR-E. And that is going to be a huge reason for why the car will be so desirable going forward. Quite simply, there is nothing like it.

[IndyRon]

^^^A "rack spot" in a collector's garage is not going to just any of the 30,000 Vipers ever produced because, by and large, pre-Gen V cars were very inferior in build quality and fit and finish (compared to Euro sports car brands, especially the interiors)...but by and large prior Vipers were considered cheaply built. Gen V legitimately changed that and now the car comes off as a high end, polished product that even Ferrari owners can appreciate.

I'll buy this if you show me a single "collector car" with appreciating value over the past 100 years that is such due to the "build quality" or "interior fit and finish/materials". I look at 6 fig Yenkos and COPO Camaro interiors or that of your mentioned 'Split window, and think what a horrible place to spend a couple hours on a road trip. That doesn't detract from those cars value though.

I think you are creating a reality that you would like to be true rather than actually looking at the history. If the Gen 5 becomes collectible, it will be because of a handful of factors, but none of which that you just stated above.

[13COBRA]

Scott is dead set on using his as a retirement fund.

[commandomatt]

I'll buy this if you show me a single "collector car" with appreciating value over the past 100 years that is such due to the "build quality" or "interior fit and finish/materials". I look at 6 fig Yenkos and COPO Camaro interiors or that of your mentioned 'Split window, and think what a horrible place to spend a couple hours on a road trip. That doesn't detract from those cars value though.

I think you are creating a reality that you would like to be true rather than actually looking at the history. If the Gen 5 becomes collectible, it will be because of a handful of factors, but none of which that you just stated above.

Great post and absolutely true. Collectors dont care about refinements such as updated interiors, creature comforts etc. It's like saying that the late model Shelbys of the 60's and early 70's would be worth more than the Cobras, because they were more comfortable and user friendly.

If history would repeat itself, the Gen IV ACR will be the most valuable Viper since it was made is lesser numbers, no nannies, bare bones performance and held some records (at its time) the Gen V could never achieve

That said, while I think the Viper will create some kind of value increase years from now, they will never become the one all collectors will want. The value will be for those that love this type of car and these buyers are relatively few

[Scott_in_fl]

I'll buy this if you show me a single "collector car" with appreciating value over the past 100 years that is such due to the "build quality" or "interior fit and finish/materials". I look at 6 fig Yenkos and COPO Camaro interiors or that of your mentioned 'Split window, and think what a horrible place to spend a couple hours on a road trip. That doesn't detract from those cars value though.

I think you are creating a reality that you would like to be true rather than actually looking at the history. If the Gen 5 becomes collectible, it will be because of a handful of factors, but none of which that you just stated above.

Cars are collectible for many reasons. Yenkos, old Camaro's, Mustangs, Vettes, etc. are collectible because they harken back to a day when they ruled the street light drag scene. Porsches were not popular here at the time, and would have been smoked by the big block American muscle back then anyway. Guys who grew up around that, and around those cars, have a soft spot for such nostalgia and go after them now that they can afford to. That is what drives their values. The fact that the cars had classic styling that is pure Americana, and that nothing quite like those cars was ever made again, also makes them very rare and unusual pieces of art today. And their interiors were proper interiors for that time period, considered beautiful and high quality back then. And they are. Ever look at a properly restored '58 Impala? It is breathtaking.

I grew up during the time when Lambo Countach was the car on the bedroom poster. American cars were mostly crap during the 80's, 90's, 2000's.... hell, we couldn't build a quality car until even after that. Have you seen the interior of a 1987 Ford Mustang GT, or any American car for that matter? Pure, 100% unadulterated crap. IMO, almost no American car was collectible from that era. This was the era when Euro cars started to shine. The Porsches, Ferrari's, etc. were kicking everyone's ass performance wise, were beautiful to look at, and became objects of desire. I still love Porsches, have owned them, and definitely have a "rack spot" for a special one if I ever come across the right car.

Current era Mustangs, Camaros, Vettes, Vipers (i.e. 2005+) were slow to improve, but have steadily since then. By now, all of those cars are back at the top of their game and many can compete head on with their Euro counterparts in many respects (and we're not just talking about interiors here... everything about the cars is finally able to compete on the global stage.... again). We're finally back to a point when something truly special, built by an American company, could be collectible again. It could be a 1LE Camaro if they only built 600 of them, or a ZR1 if they only built 800 of them and then went to mid-engine forever, it could be the next GT500 if it is the last American V-8 Mustang and is somewhat limited. The problem is that those cars, as great as they finally are again, are not really being produced as true "special editions" any more like the Yenko, Judge, Superbird. But, the Gen V ACR and ACR-E were.


Scott is dead set on using his as a retirement fund.

LOL, no I already have more miles than anything should if collector value was my goal. I just like the conversation. But I'm also not a seller. Not now, not ever. It's already willed off to my daughter. Plus, I have Bitcoin for my retirement ;)

[Scott_in_fl]

Great post and absolutely true. Collectors dont care about refinements such as updated interiors, creature comforts etc. It's like saying that the late model Shelbys of the 60's and early 70's would be worth more than the Cobras, because they were more comfortable and user friendly.

If history would repeat itself, the Gen IV ACR will be the most valuable Viper since it was made is lesser numbers, no nannies, bare bones performance and held some records (at its time) the Gen V could never achieve

That said, while I think the Viper will create some kind of value increase years from now, they will never become the one all collectors will want. The value will be for those that love this type of car and these buyers are relatively few

C'mon, of course I'm not saying that the interior is the reason why the Gen V will be collectible. I have opined that there are countless factors that cause auto assets to increase in value, even going so far as to point out that global wealth is expected to significantly increase in the next 5-10 years. The statement about the interior is a point only made to illustrate how bad American cars have been since, basically the '60's. I don't see how that can be denied. It is only just recently that American interiors are at least bearable when compared to what the Europeans have been doing for a long time now. And, again, the interior comment is an easily understood metaphor for overall build quality.

[Policy Limits]

Everyone just check out your 401 (k) growth and smile. 7 more years of Trump!

[13COBRA]

Everyone just check out your 401 (k) growth and smile. 7 more years of Trump!

I hope so. Unfortunately I don't think it'll be the case.

[ViperDC]

Scott is dead set on using his as a retirement fund.

lol true and so were all those guys that bought 96 B/W GTS and put them in bubbles that still havent even gotten back to their original MSRP not counting inflation 20+ years later

[Murpowa]

Everyone just check out your 401 (k) growth and smile. 7 more years of Trump!

Only a fool would believe that the market can sustain this pace...

[Policy Limits]

It's simply not sustainable. That's why I supplemented my investment portfolio with an ACR-E...duhhhh....

[Terminator02]

lol true and so were all those guys that bought 96 B/W GTS and put them in bubbles that still havent even gotten back to their original MSRP not counting inflation 20+ years later

That is one that puzzled me. Supply was there but when I think Gen 2 BW 96 pops up. Loved my 00 ACR but a 2002 FE ACR would be my choice now. A 250 mile 2002 360 of 360 FE sold in michigan last year for around 50k. The last gen 2 off the line. Kid got to mod and drive. That is one car I would just leave to enjoy and cruise a bit. But gen 2 is my fav in many ways.

[Murpowa]

It's simply not sustainable. That's why I supplemented my investment portfolio with an ACR-E...duhhhh....

Yes, we are all WELL aware of the thesis. Looking forward to seeing how that pans out for you (and Scott)

[Policy Limits]

Its well documented that neither of us has any intention of selling.

Someone unfamiliar with sarcasm. ..?

[Space Truckin]

Only a fool would believe that the market can sustain this pace...

While I agree the pace is not sustainable, it is much better employing people to work than just sending them an ebt card, free health insurance, free cell phone and whatever else the believe they are entitled to. Would you prefer the socialist regime we survived (absolute worst 8 years for my business and country) and Crooked Hillary wanted to continue. Drain the SWAMP!!!!...JM2C..I could be wrong...

[13COBRA]

Honestly if I were to dump my IV for a V, the only two I would consider are the dealer edition white, red and blue or a VooDoo.

[Scott_in_fl]

lol true and so were all those guys that bought 96 B/W GTS and put them in bubbles that still havent even gotten back to their original MSRP not counting inflation 20+ years later

Do you know of any in bubble wrap that can be had for original MSRP of $66k or are you just spouting off.... again?

I'll gladly take a link if you do (and I may even buy you dinner).

[ViperDC]

That is one that puzzled me. Supply was there but when I think Gen 2 BW 96 pops up. Loved my 00 ACR but a 2002 FE ACR would be my choice now. A 250 mile 2002 360 of 360 FE sold in michigan last year for around 50k. The last gen 2 off the line. Kid got to mod and drive. That is one car I would just leave to enjoy and cruise a bit. But gen 2 is my fav in many ways.

I agree and think the Gen 2s will appreciate (they are already trending up some), especially clean desirable ones (B/W GTS and R/10, ACR, FE) but those guys that hid them away made a huge mistake, they will never be worth their MSRP adjusted for inflation most likely. Much less when you figure in storage, insurance, etc. Should have just driven and enjoyed them

- - - Updated - - -


Do you know of any in bubble wrap that can be had for original MSRP of $66k or are you just spouting off.... again?

I'll gladly take a link if you do (and I may even buy you dinner).

Oh Scotty I don't swing that way but thanks

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ I think Gen 2 has gone under-appreciated. But that will not last. It was everything that was great about Gen 1, but an improvement everywhere else. They still look amazing when you see them today, are fun to drive, easily modded, and would be awesome in one of those "rack spots".

The most collectible Gen 2 models should obviously increase first/most ('98 GTSR, '96 b/w, '02 FE, probably in that order), but any low mile example would be a nice grab if you can find a deal. VE has a bubble wrap '98 GTSR listed for $169,900.

[13COBRA]

VE has a bubble wrap '98 GTSR listed for $169,900.

That's a joke though lol

[Bruce H.]

Which do you think will be the key attributes of the more collectible examples and will those make really much of a difference in value or general desirablity? ACR-E or 1 of 1 GTC ACR-E, '17 or '16, 1 of 1 or SE or DE and which of those several will be preferred most, low or average mileage, and will certain options factor in much (not sure there were any on SE or DE cars), other aspects?

[WayOfWilliam]

I've been thinking of selling my 2017 ACR-E with only 530 miles, and I contacted a dealer, who offered me a solid $112,000. Feels bad.

[Policy Limits]

Fake News.

[ViperSRT]

Depends on a lot. Lowest ACR-E MSRP was 127k so a lot depends on the options.

[WayOfWilliam]

Fake News.

30546

MSRP was $143,000.

[Policy Limits]

Rip off. Just my opinion. Wholesale value is always less than retail. However, why not sell it yourself for the buck and a half it's worth? Bigger question: how are you sick of a 2017 car already? Lol

[WayOfWilliam]

Rip off. Just my opinion. Wholesale value is always less than retail. However, why not sell it yourself for the buck and a half it's worth? Bigger question: how are you sick of a 2017 car already? Lol

I actually really do like the car, its just I want something I can modify a bit more. I know you can build the motors on these, do some headers/exhaust stuff, and add some carbon, but I want something that you can do a bit more to.

[Policy Limits]

Contact Factory Five Racing and build your own car. Very cost effective and you can keep the snake too ;)

[ViperSRT]

And only 30 miles after break in. A mere babe.

[swisspower]

30546

MSRP was $143,000.

You have a PM.

[ViperSmith]

I guess I don't visit enough car forums to witness people so obsessed over future car values vs enjoying the cars.

[Policy Limits]

It's unreal Harold. Still have snow on the ground here. Can't wait until the temp rises & it's gone so I can drive mine.

[sharmut]

Contact Factory Five Racing and build your own car. Very cost effective and you can keep the snake too ;)

Wanted a 2nd track toy, considering going that route myself. Saw a finished GTM-X on eBay that looks interesting.

[Murpowa]

I guess I don't visit enough car forums to witness people so obsessed over future car values vs enjoying the cars.

+1

It's concentrated to this forum like nothing I've seen, exaggerated and regurgitated over and over by a select few

[kriskyk]

You may want to check out instead
http://www.superlitecars.com/slc/

[Scott_in_fl]

+1

It's concentrated to this forum like nothing I've seen, exaggerated and regurgitated over and over by a select few

Keep in mind that our cars are no longer available for order or sale.

Most car forums are filled with discussions about what color, which options, what dealer, etc. that no longer applies to us.

But, if you want to visit the Corvette C7 Forum today, you can discuss such interesting things as "How many miles do you have on your C7", or "Manual vs Automatic", both of which are apparently lots of fun to banter about.

For me, I enjoy threads that generate a bit of controversy, promote lively discussion, make you think, and force you to defend a position. For what it's worth, the "value" threads around here are some of the more engaging, and popular conversations going.

And if anyone thinks I seriously care about these cars appreciating, I have to chuckle because the joke is on them. I'd say that 90% of my discussion is purely intended to get a reactive, fun dialogue going. I am not a car collector :)

[IndyRon]

Keep in mind that our cars are no longer available for order or sale.

Most car forums are filled with discussions about what color, which options, what dealer, etc. that no longer applies to us.

But, if you want to visit the Corvette C7 Forum today, you can discuss such interesting things as "How many miles do you have on your C7", or "Manual vs Automatic", both of which are apparently lots of fun to banter about.

For me, I enjoy threads that generate a bit of controversy, promote lively discussion, make you think, and force you to defend a position. For what it's worth, the "value" threads around here are some of the more engaging, and popular conversations going.

And if anyone thinks I seriously care about these cars appreciating, I have to chuckle because the joke is on them. I'd say that 90% of my discussion is purely intended to get a reactive, fun dialogue going. I am not a car collector :)

Wait...wait....there it is....on cue... lol

[dewilmoth]

Wanted a 2nd track toy, considering going that route myself. Saw a finished GTM-X on eBay that looks interesting.

I’ve driven a FFR GTM, it was utter garbage. It would take some serious time to make one of those a nice quality car. So many other kit cars I’d consider before one of those, namely ultima Evo, Rossion Q1, or superlite coupe. I also drove a mildly modified Q1, it was brutally quick.

[ViperSmith]

Wait...wait....there it is....on cue... lol

Yeah but he totally doesn’t care about the car value

Lmao

[Policy Limits]

What's interesting about having owned both the first and last production years of the generation is how values are so opposite. Back in 2012 and 2013 the car was bad mouthed so much (mostly by viper owners themselves) that the factory stopped production for a period of time and the manufacturer dropped sticker price and gave us early order guys a fifteen thousand dollar loyalty voucher. Now a half decade of production into the generation, SE cars sell out in hours/days and go for tens of thousands of dollars over sticker. What a dichotomy. I'm routing for collector car status and appreciation not because I want to turn a profit. Rather, it's to feel gratification that the car is receiving a long overdue respect and admiration that it deserved long ago.

[SharpMan]

Rather, it's to feel gratification that the car is receiving a long overdue respect and admiration that it deserved long ago.

I get that.

But...I'm also fickle and like the idea I can own and enjoy a car for a few years and sell it and not have it cost much or anything.

[Policy Limits]

Good point. I've lost on everything ranging from Nissan to Lamborghini. But every once in a while it's nice to break even. Coming out on top is icing on the cake. Pretty sure this one is a keeper though.

[darbgnik]

Good point. I've lost on everything ranging from Nissan to Lamborghini. But every once in a while it's nice to break even. Coming out on top is icing on the cake. Pretty sure this one is a keeper though.

I've either broken even, or lost very little on many vehicles, but that's only been accomplished by car values fluctuating due to exchange rates, as well as buying them at least 1 year old. I am right side up on my Viper I purchased new at the dealer, but only because our currency tanked after the purchase, and values generally follow the green back. I owned a Gallardo for 4 years, and sold it for the same price I paid for it, in 2 days, maybe even could have made a few grand on it considering how quick it sold, but that is because our dollar tanked over the course of the time I owned it. If I lived south of the border, I would have lost on them all. Some more than others, but still lost.

Well, except my Hummer H1. It's value is higher here in Canada than when I bought it, and if I were in the US it would be pretty much worth what I paid for it. But I've owned that thing for 15 years, and bought it a year old. That being said, I wouldn't call that an investment, as investments are supposed to increase in value, not return to a static value after 15 years, lol.

Personally, I call any vehicle purchase a win when I don't lose my shirt in the first 2 years.

[Terminator02]

I think these get so heated because some do not care on viper value, some care to maintain and defend value, and some like to speculate value.

I like to promote value of the car and brand because for years it has been a shit show. It happens with other brands and forums but it is kinda sad with our community. We as viper owners of any generation benefit by any models appreciating. In time all Vipers will; salvage title or not as we are a tiny community due to production. Maybe 32k total vipers made? How many totaled and exported and now maybe we have around 19k in the US of all years and models? Sad to see gen 2 coupe cars hit 35k.

I buy what I WANT. I wanted an SRT Jeep and BMW X5M and I know damn well they are horribly depreciating assets. Sure, I could get another exotic like a used Lambo F or P car for value retention or speculation but I live in Michigan, hate the Winter, so I have daily drivers that I love for any season. A G wagon is a safer buy for value but I just love the fact i have an 80hp underrated bimmer that is around 640hp stock, ripping a 1/4 mile 12.2 at 115mph. A chip tune exhaust for a few grand is good for 11.4. That is fun for me. Not for others. To each...their own.

[Bruce H.]

I just hope most people bought whichever model they chose to enjoy it over a period of years as they are the only ones guaranteed to come out winners! Those that bought new on speculation, hype or simply because they could are the ones that took a risk, and may find themselves competing against each other for high price when they decide to sell. My guess is prices are high now riding the wave but could soon follow a more typical pattern before starting to appreciate. Will certainly be interesting to follow!

I've bought several used special interest cars over the years and every one of them appreciated rather significantly over a number of years simply because they were unique and special cars built in low quantities that enthusiasts discovered as being gems. And most were not low mileage examples when I finally sold them, 3 of which had over 80,000 miles on them, and two even tracked extensively. I'm absolutely positive every model of Gen V will appreciate, with the high dollar and no mile resales helping to lift all Viper values.

So I hope lots keep the cover on theirs and sell huge to help out everyone else :)

Bruce

[commandomatt]

So I hope lots keep the cover on theirs and sell huge to help out everyone else :)

Bruce

I think its safe to say that there are more 'bubble' 2017 ACR-E's than any other model Viper. Interesting that there are also more of these being tracked, and tracked hard, so definitely polar opposites

[Scott_in_fl]

I think its safe to say that there are more 'bubble' 2017 ACR-E's than any other model Viper. Interesting that there are also more of these being tracked, and tracked hard, so definitely polar opposites

I would say that is a good thing, because (1) that is more cars off the street and thus all of them are perceived as more rarely seen; and (2) anyone who can afford to "bubble" an ACR-E can also afford to hold onto it as long as they want (assuming they are not merely short term speculating, in which case those cars will show up for sale soon). Both aspects move prices higher.

Interestingly, I was at a "supercar" event this weekend, and the bit about "driver's cars" vs. "poseur cars" is really starting to become a thing (and not knocking the newer designs, they are beautiful -- it just seems beauty may be their best quality -- "all paint, no wood" as one of my elder business partners always remarks).

I stood by a 1972 Porsche 911 that was parked beside a brand new, screaming yellow Ferrari 488 just to watch the reactions of people walking by. Invariably, people paid almost no attention to the Ferrari. As usual, I like to investigate such social phenomena and asked people questions about the two cars. I asked some people what they thought of the Ferrari and many did not even realize it was there. I'm not kidding. Another person remarked, "yeah, it's nice, but there's like 200 of them here."

Others brought up the point that I always make, that the newer cars are uninteresting because there is just too much tech. I even shared my analog about imagining if the new NSX had the body of the new FGT, and the new FGT looked like the new NSX. Would their opinion of the two cars be different? After all, both cars drive great, are more than anyone could ever use (on the street or track), etc. Everyone agreed absolutely, and thought that the idea was right on.

The point is that we are entering an age where the fashion styling of a car is becoming the only thing differentiating them, and thus is the most important aspect of them -- all paint, no wood. But, that necessarily means that as soon as the next better looking design comes around, it's going to be "out with the old, and in with the new". There is very little of the "character" or "emotion" (i.e the "wood") that underpins what makes some older cars so much more desirable than others (in addition to their looks, which is also important but not everything). Indeed, with older cars it's almost all about the "wood."

I'm not going to repeat how this extrapolates to our cars, but just wanted to share some interesting insight (at least I think it's interesting) into my ever continuing social experiment in the automotive world.

3058630587

[Policy Limits]

The true poser test: if your girlfriend can't drive the car it passes the test and isn't for posers. :)

[camarochevy1970]

If your girlfriend can't drive your car, you need a better girlfriend

[Scott_in_fl]

The true poser test: if your girlfriend can't drive the car it passes the test and isn't for posers. :)

LOL, that's pretty good!

[pMak26]

The true poser test: if your girlfriend can't drive the car it passes the test and isn't for posers. :)

My wife has only owned manual cars.

My gf on the other hand...

[BrianACR]

I actually really do like the car, its just I want something I can modify a bit more. I know you can build the motors on these, do some headers/exhaust stuff, and add some carbon, but I want something that you can do a bit more to.
Buy a GenII!!! Lots you can do to them, and it'll hold its value....if that's important to you.


The true poser test: if your girlfriend can't drive the car it passes the test and isn't for posers. :)
But what if my wife can drive it, but is a bit scared of it??? ;)

[Boba Fett]

If your girlfriend can't drive your car, you need a better girlfriend

sounds pretty gay

[camarochevy1970]

sounds pretty gay

how so?

[ViperDC]

I asked some people what they thought of the Ferrari and many did not even realize it was there.]
Yeah I'm going to have to fly my BS flag on that one

[Policy Limits]

I'm shopping lp640 against 458 Italia currently (no BS flag)

[ACRSNK]

I'm shopping lp640 against 458 Italia currently (no BS flag)

I almost bought an 08 lp640 vert with a true manual back in 2013. Car had only 5K miles. Grigio over black from Newport Lambo. They came down to $220K for the car, but I changed my mind the last minute and bought an 08 911 TT vert and another Viper. That Lambo is now mid to upper $300’s easy if you can even find one. I’m also keeping an eye out for a nice 458. Can’t go wrong with a little prancing horse in the stable.

[Policy Limits]

Yeah gated lp's are a house now. My budget is either e gear bull or dual clutch F car. I have a poll going on FB currently and the two cars are tie in votes so far

[ACRSNK]

I think a nice clean well bought 458 is tough to beat. Car is beautiful. Great performance and you can get a 2011 for low $170's.

[ViperDC]

Yeah gated lp's are a house now. My budget is either e gear bull or dual clutch F car. I have a poll going on FB currently and the two cars are tie in votes so far

Tough call, would probably go Ferrari. As cool as the Lambos are, they are about half as fun to drive as a mid engine Ferrari.

[Scott_in_fl]

Yeah I'm going to have to fly my BS flag on that one

No BS. They are a dime a dozen down here.


I'm shopping lp640 against 458 Italia currently (no BS flag)

If you want something fun to drive, the Fcar has to be it. If you want something that makes a statement when you pull up, the Lcar cannot be beat.

Another way to put it is whether you want classy, or assy. Fcars are always classy. And as much as I like the look and sound of the big Lcars, I just hate the drivers that are associated with them. Thus, the cars come off assy down in SoFla.

[Policy Limits]

Saturation in a single area doesn't negate the fact that murcielago was hand made only a few hundred times per year. That's even more exclusive than viper, which is really hard to beat. I know I'm in the minority but I like it better than Aventador.

Let's see what the Viper does this weekend at the auction. Last night the money was flow-ing. It was like a twilight zone episode wherein the economy was through the roof and Trump was president. ..wait.

[BlknBlu]

ACR E value thread, bahahaha, derail

Bruce

[ViperJon]

Not sure why anyone would expect some big number for the Vipers at BJ when you can still buy new ones. Bernie has a brand new Voodoo ACR-E for 159k....who the hell would pass that to pay big money for either of these? And I'll bet he has some GTS-R's salted away too. Unless you get two clueless wealthy drunks going at it lol.

[Policy Limits]

True story. I went last season to the one at Mohegan Sun Casino. The bar was flowin' and I saw a dude drop seven figs. He spent over on a 488 and it was unnecessary. I also don't like how there's no carfax in the bidder book; how do you know what you're buying?

Derail over. Besides the 159k list on that Vooodoo are there other SE cars remaining unsold? Or have they been scooped up by buyers (in general)?

[sprite]

Can't go wrong with a LP640.

[Murpowa]

Derail over. Besides the 159k list on that Vooodoo are there other SE cars remaining unsold? Or have they been scooped up by buyers (in general)?

Still other SE cars unsold

[Policy Limits]

Woah. I had assumed all sold by now. Mine has been in my garage over one year already. Glad I only paid 142k lol

[V10powerr]

I have a lp640 roadster and a gts viper and have to agree the viper is more fun to drive but the lp murcie is at a different exotic level. i love the acr e but just cant convince myself to spend twice as much as the gts value.

[TA Two Oh]

Yeah gated lp's are a house now. My budget is either e gear bull or dual clutch F car. I have a poll going on FB currently and the two cars are tie in votes so far

I may have an e-gear LP640 available shortly. 2008, Grigio, one owner, purchased from Lamborghini of Newport Beach. In-Service date Sept 30, 2009. Approx 20,000 miles. Nice car. Has had a carbon Fiber wrap on it since new so the paint should be perfect. PM me if you want to know more.

[Policy Limits]

PM sent