Bolt on dyno results

[Cobra723]

I was going to do heads and cam from the get go but gave in and did bolt ons for now.

Both sheets are corrected for weather.

Stock: 517whp 494wtq

30139

Bolt ons include: ARH headers, ARH exhaust, underdrive pulley, DSE intake heat shield, tuned on HPTuners
594whp 566wtq

30140
30141

Some race videos after the upgrades.
Open on Youtube to watch in HD.


https://youtu.be/c3EJXRxAA2M

https://youtu.be/HfqefHbfNqA

[Jack B]

Your first pull was low partially due to the tires breaking loose near peak torque. Note your second pull does not have that bubble.

[nwa_viper]

Who did the tuning?

[Cobra723]

Your first pull was low partially due to the tires breaking loose near peak torque. Note your second pull does not have that bubble.

Those pulls are from two separate days, but I know what you mean.


Who did the tuning?

Torrie@unleashedtuning

[ViperPete]

Those are great numbers. I wish I had dynoed my car before the exhaust as a comparison.

I don't recall my tires breaking loose on the dyno.... Is that what the little "mountain" is on the tq numbers on my dyno sheet?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVTcF6z8w3M

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[Dman]

594hp on a mustang dyno .. wow, that’s a stronnnng number. Congrats.

[Steve M]

Your first pull was low partially due to the tires breaking loose near peak torque. Note your second pull does not have that bubble.

I'd be more inclined to believe that the dip you are referencing is an artifact of the stock calibration rather than tire spin. I've seen more than a few stock dynos with that dip, and it magically disappears after tuning when the car is making more power, and thus should be more likely to spin.

My guess is torque management.

[Jack B]

You have valid point, however, why would you have torque management intervene without wheel spin, plus, it happens right near peak torque. There definitely was some form of external intervention that caused the torque rate-of-rise to go negative, plus, HPT does not change the torque management (unless they have released a new version), at least not on the G5 pcm, keep in mind HPT is not full featured with the G5, as it is with the G4.

I just looked at a dyno pull of mine where i know it was slipping and it did not look the same, the negative torque rate of rise was more gradual


I'd be more inclined to believe that the dip you are referencing is an artifact of the stock calibration rather than tire spin. I've seen more than a few stock dynos with that dip, and it magically disappears after tuning when the car is making more power, and thus should be more likely to spin.

My guess is torque management.

[LmeaViper]

That's a good jump. Must be a huge difference driving it.

[Vipes]

Awesome!! Those are beast numbers for a mustang dyno! I would guess 615+ on a dyno jet.

[serpent]

Thanks for posting OP, I've been posting in your youtube videos. Sometime down the line I want to do H/C from AC, Performance just gotta save up for the admission. :lol2:
I can't believe they can do H/C + full exhaust and make 700+rwhp on a stock ecu.
http://www.acperformance.net/gen5-700rwhp-package

I'm lucky they're in Socal!

[Steve M]

You have valid point, however, why would you have torque management intervene without wheel spin, plus, it happens right near peak torque. There definitely was some form of external intervention that caused the torque rate-of-rise to go negative, plus, HPT does not change the torque management (unless they have released a new version), at least not on the G5 pcm, keep in mind HPT is not full featured with the G5, as it is with the G4.


Torque management will intervene on a Gen 4 regardless of wheel spin. The Gen 4/5 PCMs use torque based calculations to control what the engine does under different circumstances. I'm not sure what exactly goes in to that calculation, but pulling timing is the quickest way to get it under control if the PCM thinks the engine is delivering too much torque to the rest of the drivetrain. In other words, as long as the PCM calculates a torque value above some threshold amount, it will pull timing to get it back under control.

I fought this for the better part of a year with my 2008, and I knew it was an issue because I wasn't getting the timing values I was commanding. It was very consistent, however, so I was able to ask the HPT guys to dig back through the code to find two additional tables that controlled the spark advance (both were labeled mean best torque or something like that)...I changed the values in one of the tables, and the problem got worse. I changed the other one instead, and the problem went away completely. Those tables were also added for the Gen 5.

No more timing dip meant I was getting full torque delivery at all times. Do I have a dyno graph to back that up? Nope, but my car has trapped a best of 130 in +2000 DA weather with a 3650 race weight, without headers. I know it is making power, and it is all in the calibration.

[Voice of Reason]

How much does Torrie reduce the high IAT timing pull that’s in the stock and (to a lesser but still present) Arrow PCM tune? I often wonder if the 20-30Hp increase over Arrow that’s common in HPT is from that alone, it sure felt like it the short time I drove with Jack’s Cool-Aid on the car this summer!

[Jack B]

I will inject another variable into the equation, at peak torque the timing is already at the low point, their is not a lot of timing left to pull that would create the dramatic change in torque as is depicted on the first dyno pull. the torque slope was normal until it approached peak torque. i log timing and throttle, a loss of traction is always accompanied by the timing and throttle being pulled, the position of the pedal is not a factor.

We should really bow out, we are going off topic, the car put up real nice numbers, especially since it was on a Mustang.



Torque management will intervene on a Gen 4 regardless of wheel spin. The Gen 4/5 PCMs use torque based calculations to control what the engine does under different circumstances. I'm not sure what exactly goes in to that calculation, but pulling timing is the quickest way to get it under control if the PCM thinks the engine is delivering too much torque to the rest of the drivetrain. In other words, as long as the PCM calculates a torque value above some threshold amount, it will pull timing to get it back under control.

I fought this for the better part of a year with my 2008, and I knew it was an issue because I wasn't getting the timing values I was commanding. It was very consistent, however, so I was able to ask the HPT guys to dig back through the code to find two additional tables that controlled the spark advance (both were labeled mean best torque or something like that)...I changed the values in one of the tables, and the problem got worse. I changed the other one instead, and the problem went away completely. Those tables were also added for the Gen 5.

No more timing dip meant I was getting full torque delivery at all times. Do I have a dyno graph to back that up? Nope, but my car has trapped a best of 130 in +2000 DA weather with a 3650 race weight, without headers. I know it is making power, and it is all in the calibration.

[Jet Slicker]

I assume catless ARH? Or do you have cats?

[Scott_in_fl]

I was going to do heads and cam from the get go but gave in and did bolt ons for now.

Both sheets are corrected for weather.

Stock: 517whp 494wtq

Bolt ons include: ARH headers, ARH exhaust, underdrive pulley, DSE intake heat shield, tuned on HPTuners
594whp 566wtq

Some race videos after the upgrades.
Open on Youtube to watch in HD.



Great runs. Strong car.

[Cobra723]

594hp on a mustang dyno .. wow, that’s a stronnnng number. Congrats.

Thanks man, Torrie did a great job.


That's a good jump. Must be a huge difference driving it.

You have no idea, although it doesn't feel like that big of a difference in the car but I'm beating cars that have put about 3-4 cars on me before when I was stock.


Awesome!! Those are beast numbers for a mustang dyno! I would guess 615+ on a dyno jet.

I would assume so, maybe a little more.


Thanks for posting OP, I've been posting in your youtube videos. Sometime down the line I want to do H/C from AC, Performance just gotta save up for the admission. :lol2:
I can't believe they can do H/C + full exhaust and make 700+rwhp on a stock ecu.
http://www.acperformance.net/gen5-700rwhp-package

I'm lucky they're in Socal!

Thanks for following! That's great that they're so close to you, Todd's builds are nasty! Unfortunately I would have to go long ways when I do my H/C package. Haven't decided 100% on who I'm going to go with yet.


How much does Torrie reduce the high IAT timing pull that’s in the stock and (to a lesser but still present) Arrow PCM tune? I often wonder if the 20-30Hp increase over Arrow that’s common in HPT is from that alone, it sure felt like it the short time I drove with Jack’s Cool-Aid on the car this summer!

It's a good question for Torrie, unfortunately I wouldn't have the answer for you.


I assume catless ARH? Or do you have cats?

Yes sir! Catless indeed.


Great runs. Strong car.

Thanks Scott!

[Cobra723]

Those are great numbers. I wish I had dynoed my car before the exhaust as a comparison.

I don't recall my tires breaking loose on the dyno.... Is that what the little "mountain" is on the tq numbers on my dyno sheet?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVTcF6z8w3M

30143

What are tuned on? Arrow or Hptuners?

[FLATOUT]

Bad ass! Now go get it to the track so we can see some trap speeds! Enjoying your videos btw :)

Andy

[BrianACR]

594hp on a mustang dyno .. wow, that’s a stronnnng number. Congrats.

Are mustang dyno's known for reading high? Low?

[FLATOUT]

Are mustang dyno's known for reading high? Low?

Low

[BrianACR]

Low

How low is low? Like 10% low? 20%?

[FLATOUT]

How low is low? Like 10% low? 20%?

Dyno's are just tuning tools, it's always difficult to measure one to another. Even the same brand of dyno from one location to the next can be different. There for throwing a percentage on the difference would just be a guess.

[IHOP]

Those are great numbers and on top of that great runs against the other cars!

[Cobra723]

Bad ass! Now go get it to the track so we can see some trap speeds! Enjoying your videos btw :)

Andy

Thanks Andy, need some tires before I head to the track. But soon as I put tires on that will be the first I thing do.

Do you any word if the aggressive cam in the 9.0L package will be available on the H/C package?


Those are great numbers and on top of that great runs against the other cars!

Thanks! :)

[Cobra723]

Are mustang dyno's known for reading high? Low?

They definitely read lower, when I did the stock dyno some of the other guys were saying that the dyno was reading 30-40whp less than a Dynojet.