New ZR1 vs Viper

[ACR]

It's out

https://jalopnik.com/the-750-horsepower-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-this-is-it-1820256232/amp

Fail

[Arizona Vipers]

Here we go... lol

[Snorman]

Not sure why it's a "fail".
Car looks to be pretty thoroughly upgraded from the Z06. I don't like the front end, but they've stuffed additional heat exchangers in there so it's safe to say they've worked to address the cooling capacity.
I've also read that the rear spoiler is mounted through the rear bumper cover directly to the tub. Was sort of amused to see that Tadge Juechter said that mounting the wing to the hatch was for "poseurs" and that if you're generating "epic downforce" and the wing is mounted on the hatch that "you'll crack it". Interesting comment. I don't know of a single ACR with a cracked hatch.

I suspect these cars with a Girodisc iron rotor conversion (available for the C7 Z06, so will be for the ZR1 too) and an automatic will be track day terrors. The additional 140# over the nose isn't going to help, but 750 hp is pretty damn impressive. My experience with Corvettes is that I'll wait a year or so then pick up a heavily discounted car. I ordered both of my C7's and paid MSRP. Not complaining about it...I enjoyed the cars early and often.
S.

[serpent]

Car is said to be 140lbs more than a C7Z. My guess is it will be around 3760lbs.

[ACR]

Fail because it's boy racer, nothing substantial over a z06, and weighs more

[LifeIsGood]

I need more pics.

[Snorman]

Fail because it's boy racer, nothing substantial over a z06, and weighs more
Seems pretty substantial to me.
I guess the ACR is a "fail too".
The ACR has the same hp as a base Viper. The ZR1 has 100 hp more than a Z06 and 290 hp more than a base C7.
The ACR has the same cooling pacakge as a base Viper. The ZR1 has four additional heat exchangers over the Z06.
The ACR has an advance aero package to generate big downforce number over the base Viper. So does the Z06.

Just lol.
S.

[Snorman]

Car is said to be 140lbs more than a C7Z. My guess is it will be around 3760lbs.
They are about 3660-3700.
FYI, my ACR was 3440# on the scales at Daytona with ~3/4 tank of fuel (so ~3460#). So the ZR1 will be about 200# heavier.
S.

[ACR]

The ACR E has significant aero over any Viper, underbody, canards, wing, etc. Revised suspension, CCB, weight reduction in many avenues, bespoke tires, etc.

Vette: they added heat exchangers because the damn car couldn't make it around a lap, that's your argument? Funny

[ForTehNguyen]

i honestly thought there would be more upgrades, pretty lame. Now that it has a larger supercharger, perhaps it wont act like a heat pump on the track like the Z06 is


- Starting price expected to be around $120k
- 7 speed manual and 8 speed automatic
- 1/2" wider than Z06 front wheels
- Mag Ride standard
- Carbon Ceramic Brakes
- 750hp/680 lb-ft LT5 (6.2L, pushrod V8, Eaton supercharger)
- Supercharger produces 52% more air per RPM than the Z06 blower, also 2.9" taller.
- Because of the hood height, car can not be sold in Europe
- Tadge claims the ZR1 can shoot flames out from its exhaust
- NEW fuel delivery system- BOTH PORT INJECTION AND DIRECT INJECTION
- sub 3 second 0-60, sub 11 second 1/4 mile, 210+ mph top speed
- 4 additional heat exchangers (comparing to Z06) in the nose
- Curb weight 3664 lbs, 140 lbs over Z06
- Several aero packages available, RPO "ZTK" as shown in magazine. Wing has 10 degrees of adjustability, contributing to 500 lbs of downforce at speed.
- Wing is attached behind the hatch and spreads the load to the bumper beam.
- Removable top
- 2.5 seconds faster around VIR than Z06

so all that for 2.5 more seconds? Meh

[EZ 2B Green]

Well this confirms it. Orange is the new Green! :orange:

[Snorman]

The ACR E has significant aero over any Viper, underbody, canards, wing, etc. Revised suspension, CCB, weight reduction in many avenues, bespoke tires, etc.

Vette: they added heat exchangers because the damn car couldn't make it around a lap, that's your argument? Funny
I've extensively tracked both cars so I know the limitations of each. And the claim that "the damn car couldn't make it around a lap" is laughable.
The ZR1 is farther from a base C7 than the ACR is from a base Viper. It's not even close. And the delta between the ZR1 and the Z06 is probably at least as big (from a lap time perspective) as the Viper TA or TA2 is to the ACR.
S.

[Snorman]

And I'm pretty sure this car will be faster around many tracks than the ACR. Chew on that a bit.
S.

[ACR]

And I'm pretty sure this car will be faster around many tracks than the ACR. Chew on that a bit.
S.

Good luck with your claim

[SRT_BluByU]

And I'm pretty sure this car will be faster around many tracks than the ACR. Chew on that a bit.
S.

guess we’ll wait and see about that...

[serpent]

And I'm pretty sure this car will be faster around many tracks than the ACR. Chew on that a bit.
S.
Trading in the ACR? Or adding a ZR1 next to it?

[ACR]

The ZR1 is farther from a base C7 than the ACR is from a base Viper. It's not even close.
S.
Anyone here talking about base cars??



And the delta between the ZR1 and the Z06 is probably at least as big (from a lap time perspective) as the Viper TA or TA2 is to the ACR.
S.

Based on what? GM loan you a ZR1 or send you it's times compared to the Z06? That's what I thought, conjecture out of thin air. What a joke

[Snorman]

Good luck with your claim
The numbers GM is claiming for VIR lap times has the ZR1 ~1.5 seconds faster on VIR Grand Course and a ~1:53 on VIR Full, which is VERY fast.
So yeah, it's going to be fast.
S.

[Snorman]

Anyone here talking about base cars??



Based on what? GM loan you a ZR1 or send you it's times compared to the Z06? That's what I thought, conjecture out of thin air. What a joke
lol...triggered much.
What's a joke is how you are unable to objectively look at these cars.
Based on what? GM's claim that the ZR1 is 2.5 seconds faster at VIR, that's what. The Z06 was already a very fast car. The ZR1 is even faster.
S.

[Snorman]

Trading in the ACR? Or adding a ZR1 next to it?
No, the ACR isn't going anywhere. Based on my experiences with my previous 2 C7's (Z51 and a Z06), I'll wait it out for a year or so before deciding. Both are great cars, but I love my ACR and the new ZR1 isn't going to sway me (yet).
S.

[CNU_Physics]

That angle on the front cover makes that car look so much more uglier than it is. The front bumper in all the spy shots I've seen look amazing. Better than the Z06 front bumper imo. But that Zl1 Camaro hood I'm not digging. Surprised it doesn't have the 10-speed auto.

[ACR]

lol...triggered much.
What's a joke is how you are unable to objectively look at these cars.
Based on what? GM's claim that the ZR1 is 2.5 seconds faster at VIR, that's what. The Z06 was already a very fast car. The ZR1 is even faster.
S.

Blah blah, conjecture. Read an advertisement and run with it...

[ForTehNguyen]

they dont have a 10 speed version of the transaxle transmission that the vette has

[Snorman]

Blah blah, conjecture. Read an advertisement and run with it...
Okay.
We'll know soon enough.
S.

[AZTVR]

I predict that this 2019 Corvette ZR1 will out-track anything that Dodge puts in the showroom for sale in MY2019. And, my definition of a track is a closed loop of pavement with a minimum of 6 corners. lol.

[Bruce H.]

Track and performance enthusiasts everywhere should be excited about the ZR1's development and how it might help improve the breed we enjoy, whether you're a Vette fan or not.

[catwood]

There one major difference. Vette's coming out, Viper is being retired (again). 2 MY difference is alot more development. Would i want one? Not a chance in hell. But that's me.

[Snorman]

Track and performance enthusiasts everywhere should be excited about the ZR1's development and how it might help improve the breed we enjoy, whether you're a Vette fan or not.
Great comment, Bruce. Those of us who spend lots of time on-track can't see fault in manufacturers bringing faster and better track cars to the table.
I'm getting tired of running over GT3 RS's and Cup cars, so hopefully we'll see some of these ZR1's out there in force soon enough!
S.

[Dr.Ron]

Fail because it's boy racer, nothing substantial over a z06, and weighs more


i honestly thought there would be more upgrades, pretty lame. Now that it has a larger supercharger, perhaps it wont act like a heat pump on the track like the Z06 is

so all that for 2.5 more seconds? Meh

Seems pretty upgraded to me. That's a lot of horsepower too.

Not sure I like the front half though. It looks pretty busy.

I will say I've knocked 4 seconds off my 11' Z06 Carbon Edition times at the track I go to & I'm just starting to get comfy in the Viper on track! More shaving to follow next season I'm sure. The Viper just seems more balanced, predictable and planted.

Ron

[Terminator02]

Do not get why anyone will use aesthetics as a reason to bash it, or production numbers etc. When the ACRE came out many preferred other cars for certain aesthetic traits, comfort traits etc; yet the metric of success was predicated on performance. Period. If people bought the ACRE without track aspiration that is simply a personal choice but goes against the benefits of the model.

Therefore zero reason to laugh off the vette for subjective reasons as ACRE folks always quoted its purpose over everything...rightfully so. 750hp, likely well engineered aero and other improvements is great.

Did not read all upgrades but hopefully they put a good tire on the car given increase of width. And after all this blows over the mid engine will be all the rage. Again, the evolution of performance will continue and the ACRE performance or records only a viper nut will remember (fastest manual trans, NA ring lap) will fade like tears in rain.

I welcome all performance gains as it will help shape future purposes. When I had my 00 ACR I did not care 1 bit I wasnt near the fastest on the street. To me I was driving the best car I could afford at the time with the best looks and driving experience within my budget.

[Dr.Ron]

If that was pointed at me terminator, I was not bashing the Zr1.

[darbgnik]

I can't understand any hate towards this new super Vette. Everything people grumbled about(even non owners) seems to be taken care of.... Well, at the expense of a bit of extra weight to carry around. I always wondered if the reason C7Z's had cooling troubles, while the Camaro and Cadillac with basically the same issue didn't, was due to the too-small-for-purpose grille opening. That's definitely corrected with this new beak. And if the oversized supercharger is actually there, that will also help the cause.

Looks are completely subjective, and seeing as I never thought the C7 was particularly pretty anyway(not ugly, just not pretty), I can't say the new one looks bad. If I'm being honest, knowing all that open frontal area is function over form, I like it more. I know that being able to order the car without the "extreme" version of the aero is excellent marketing, as old guys will think it too "ricer", but I'm a little disappointed at that fact. It would be nice to force guys who want "the ultimate Vette" to be forced to actually get the ultimate Vette, including the aero. Take the aero away, and it's just the "ultimate motor'd Vette"........

I think I'll reserve final judgment, but I think this ZR1 is very exciting.

[Terminator02]

If that was pointed at me terminator, I was not bashing the Zr1.

No not at all. Just general observations of some attempting to downplay performance cars based on reasons that we ironically faced by other forums as the ACRE was smashing records.

[Snakebit10]

Don't know why anyone would be mad at an ACR'd Vette. This is essentially what it is. Finally the Vette world has a car from the factory on the level of the ACR's. Only thing I really don't like is the front end and the heavier weight. I really wish they would bring back a C6 Z06 type lightweight track killer with the aero and NA motor making at least 650-700hp. That would be perfect.

[capevettes]

I have a new C7 Z, M7 and love the car. It does not overheat on the track. While I think it's great the ZR-1 is out, it does not stimulate me to move into one, especially with the Mid Engine Corvette on the horizon. Disappointed that it's heavier than the Z06, but the C6 ZR1 was heavier than the C6 Z06 as well. Additional cooling features added weight to the C7 ZR-1.

While we will always find things to knit pick, we have to be pleased that they are making 750 hp cars these days. Unfortunately, alot of the people that can afford them don't know how to drive them.

[Racingswh]

Someone commented on the angle of the front shot and I agree. Not the most flattering. I am looking forward to seeing it in person. Aesthetically my only real complaint is the shape of the wing. I just love the one on the ACR-E.

I do hope it's capable of more than a couple laps and finds its way into the hands of some of my friends. Look forward to being on track with a well driven example. 2018 could be a really fun season.

[13COBRA]

Nothing like a bunch of Viper guys getting butthurt about a Corvette.

The ZR1 is going to be a beast.

Snorman, I think you hit the nail on the head. The ZR1 will beat the ACR around a few tracks. In my opinion, the shorter the track, the less likely it'll run with the ACR...but tracks with longer straights, they'll run together.


I am confused though. After looking at the car, I'd guess it made well over 500lbs of downforce?

[pMak26]

Anyone else think the downforce number seems low? I'm not sure what speed "at speed" is, but 500# "at speed" seems low.

[13COBRA]

Anyone else think the downforce number seems low? I'm not sure what speed "at speed" is, but 500# "at speed" seems low.

See post #38 lol

[commandomatt]

It's going to have have a hefty price tag...for a Vette. With a mid/rear engine on the horizon, I am not sure how strong the sales will be for this car. Still cool that they are creating this improved version

Watching these new and better cars come out, really makes it hit home that our Viper is done with. It's like we have been put on the sideline with no possibility to be in the game again.

Sucks

[Snorman]

Anyone else think the downforce number seems low? I'm not sure what speed "at speed" is, but 500# "at speed" seems low.
GM noted that the rear wing generates 500# of downforce. That's not the total downforce number. I'd expect the car makes somewhere around 700-800# of total downforce including the larger front splitter and nose, skirts, etc..
S.

[ViperPete]

Functional sure, but ugly.

[dmann]

I am definitely looking forward to its track capabilities. Having owned several Z06 i have to say this peaks my interest.

[Sub Driver]

The best part is there are no spats on the front fender. Seems like there are already some butthurt viper fans. You have to expect that the ACR will not stay on top forever. Can't wait to see what the prices on these drop to in about a year's time.

[1.8t]

Interested to see how it’s track times compare to the ACR’s in the US. I am sure it will be a beast due to the bench mark.

[13COBRA]

Looking forward to seeing these sell during GM's 20% off sale.

[Snorman]

Looking forward to seeing these sell during GM's 20% off sale.
That's inevitable. You sort of have two choices with these things. Buy early and sell before the bottom falls out, or wait until the bottom falls out and buy at a heavy discount, lol.
S.

[RedTanRT/10]

There one major difference. Vette's coming out, Viper is being retired (again). 2 MY difference is alot more development. Would i want one? Not a chance in hell. But that's me.

Hey Carl, be happy the new ZR-1 is coming out. I'll bet a number of first time Viper owners who bought a ACR-E to take to car shows will jump on the latest toy with 750 hp and an automatic. Should help finding a low mile, non tracked E easier and cheaper.

[Dman]

I'll be 'that guy' ... I like it. But, I like the C7 changes, which I know have been controversial.

I think these are huge upgrades, I expect this thing will run mid 10s. I see 800hp Z06s hitting high 9s, assuming the wing doesn't kill things, it should be a great multi-capable weapon. If cooling is truly nailed, I too think we'll see this thing take down ACR lap times. I remember many posting their disappointment when the ACR had zero power increase, here GM dropped in 100hp, c'mon, that's as if FCA had made the ACR with the VE HC pkg, as in amazeballs. If you don't like vettes, then I'd assume you're going to hate this one, as it'll get a lot of attention.

As for looks, I think they picked a bad color. I still kinda think it's good, but in a silver or gunmetal, to help blend the bulges and trim .. I think it'll look nasty good. As for the mid-engine, I'm not a vette follower so I don't know anything, but I'd think that, if it comes, would be way higher priced, and I'd be shocked if they went high HP like the ZR1. I think it'd be a finesse perf road race flavor, more money, more reasonable power, etc. But I don't know what I'm talking about on that at all really.

[CNU_Physics]

29565
From this angle it looks a lot better imo.

[BlknBlu]

welcome to 2018

Bruce

[catwood]

Hey Carl, be happy the new ZR-1 is coming out. I'll bet a number of first time Viper owners who bought a ACR-E to take to car shows will jump on the latest toy with 750 hp and an automatic. Should help finding a low mile, non tracked E easier and cheaper.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. And Peter's and Hirko and, and and and .......I'm going to have to battle about 5 guys on this. Luckily I have a small advantage in timing but I am more picky on the color than some of the others.

[Nine Ball]

Hey Snorman, you are now experiencing a little of what I got treated with on Corvetteforum. Blind loyalty, zero logic, all subjective crap. :)

I like the new C7 ZR1. This is the C7 that should have been released in the first place, not the shoestring budget semi-wide spat-tacked-on C7Z that we've had for a few years now. GM, and many Corvette fans, were in complete denial about all the shortcuts that went into the development of the C7Z. They had literally half the budget (due to the bailout era) to build a proper C7Z. This ZR1 is the answer to that, after an economic recovery. I know a few guys on the Corvette development team that hated that the C7Z shared a stingray front bumper, had the tacked on spats, and a puny radiator. They had heat management issues even during testing, pre-release. When I shared this info on Corvetteforum, people called me a liar and a troll. Then 3 years later, GM admits they have the issue, and attempts to fix the cooling issues.

And now we have this ZR1. I dig it. I'd own one. But, sure I love the curves and timeless styling of the Viper much more. In 10, 20, 30+ years, the Vipers will continue to look great. Corvettes lost that with the C7. I feel the C6 widebody cars are timeless, but the C7 edges and robotic styling are just era cool. They are already starting to look dated, since we see so many on the roads now. They are cool for the moment.

But, we do seem to have quite a few guys responding purely out of ego here. That is a bit silly. "I'd never downgrade to a Corvette, I'm a Viper guy!" seems to be the sentiment. You forget that team Viper left us zero to buy, to replace our Vipers. Zero. It is good to have alternatives, especially RWD and manual transmission.

I'll hedge that this ZR1 beats the ACR lap times. I know the GM guys on that team felt burned with the scorn of the weak C7Z development. This car was their revenge, with a proper budget, and the proper hardware and aero. The car they wanted, from the beginning - but were not allowed to build.

[ViperDC]

Seems pretty substantial to me.
I guess the ACR is a "fail too".
The ACR has the same hp as a base Viper. The ZR1 has 100 hp more than a Z06 and 290 hp more than a base C7.
The ACR has the same cooling pacakge as a base Viper. The ZR1 has four additional heat exchangers over the Z06.
The ACR has an advance aero package to generate big downforce number over the base Viper. So does the Z06.

Just lol.
S.

agreed. this car is going to be tough. also those aren't the final power numbers...if I remember right they said the new Z06 had 625 HP when it was first announced and then it showed up with 650 so it may end up being even more powerful.

this car is going to be a force to be reckoned with especially with the automatic. The ACR will have its hands full on some tracks and lose on some. It will also win on some. Will be interesting to see comparos.

That all carbon fiber "shaker hood" is really, really badass

[Scott_in_fl]

The ZR1 is going to be great. The Z06 was great (I owned a '16) and more power with better cooling is only going to make it better. But, this is not an ACR'd Vette.

Corvette has done a very good job of producing a daily driver with tons of horsepower. The Z06 is comfortable, drives well, has every bit of tech you could want, has an exhaust sound that is awesome, and actually looks really good in person. It is easy to get into and out of, is quiet enough inside to have a hands-free telephone conversation, and has a nice sound system. There may even be cooled seats (don't recall mine having those though). The car is well put together and priced right. I expect the ZR1 to be all of that, but in an updated and improved version.

Yes, there were some overheating issues with the Z06 Auto cars when driven in extreme weather, but that seems to have been addressed in the new design.

However, the ZR1 is no ACR. It never has been. It will have nowhere near the aero of an ACR, is not so singularly focused as an ACR, and likely will not own any track records like the ACR.

The ZR1, like most supercars today, is designed to be all things to all people. It is an effort to blend capabilities that appeal to people that (a) are not racecar drivers; and (b) mainly drive on the street. Yes, the ZR1 has a big wing, but that is mainly to differentiate it from the other models -- it does not produce 1,700lbs. of downforce.

The ZR1 is for well-heeled folk that like to drive a powerful car to the office, and enjoy the convenience of an auto shift. Given the current market, my hunch is that more emphasis was put on its ability to perform well in roll races, than it's ability to set the fastest lap times. I predict that it will smoke an ACR in a roll race (because, again, the ACR was not designed for that).

All of that said, I loved my Z06 (and used it as a daily) because it really is an amazing blend of qualities that you don't feel too many of its compromises. The ZR1 will be more of that. But still, it will really just be an amazing street car (and a competent, but not amazing track car).

And lastly, I think the color is spot on. I had one of the last Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic cars available in 2016 and was always wondering why they discontinued the color early. The color was amazing in the sun, and now we know why they cut it short.

[Policy Limits]

I think it's awesome. However, I recall losing 50 pennies on the dollar on my C6 within twenty months, and that was far from awesome.

[FLATOUT]

I personally think that it will be quick, how quick, who knows.

As for the styling, to me it just looks like a terrible ricer aftermarket body kit was put onto a C7. The front fascia looks like something a civic would have on it and the wing stantions and wing itself looks like an ebay add on. That's just my personal opinion, some people may love it.

Andy

[v10viperbox]

Hey Carl, be happy the new ZR-1 is coming out. I'll bet a number of first time Viper owners who bought a ACR-E to take to car shows will jump on the latest toy with 750 hp and an automatic. Should help finding a low mile, non tracked E easier and cheaper.

The latter is totally going to be me. With my knee's getting worse and worse and surgury on the horizon a automatic track terror is definitely on my list. Not at MSRP and definitely not new though.

Rear tire size is exactly the same though and the Z06 is not exactly the easiest on its tires and heavy driver inputs. Not sure how they got another inch of front tire on it though. Corvettes are tight.

[Snakebit10]

Since the ZR1 is blown it will be so easy to extract big power from simple pulley etc changes. It will be fun times for you track rats regardless of which camp you are in. Too bad there will be no new snakes going forward to match up with Vettes going forward. Going to miss that rivalry in the coming years.

[stradman]

Hey Snorman, you are now experiencing a little of what I got treated with on Corvetteforum. Blind loyalty, zero logic, all subjective crap. :)

I like the new C7 ZR1. This is the C7 that should have been released in the first place, not the shoestring budget semi-wide spat-tacked-on C7Z that we've had for a few years now. GM, and many Corvette fans, were in complete denial about all the shortcuts that went into the development of the C7Z. They had literally half the budget (due to the bailout era) to build a proper C7Z. This ZR1 is the answer to that, after an economic recovery. I know a few guys on the Corvette development team that hated that the C7Z shared a stingray front bumper, had the tacked on spats, and a puny radiator. They had heat management issues even during testing, pre-release. When I shared this info on Corvetteforum, people called me a liar and a troll. Then 3 years later, GM admits they have the issue, and attempts to fix the cooling issues.

And now we have this ZR1. I dig it. I'd own one. But, sure I love the curves and timeless styling of the Viper much more. In 10, 20, 30+ years, the Vipers will continue to look great. Corvettes lost that with the C7. I feel the C6 widebody cars are timeless, but the C7 edges and robotic styling are just era cool. They are already starting to look dated, since we see so many on the roads now. They are cool for the moment.

But, we do seem to have quite a few guys responding purely out of ego here. That is a bit silly. "I'd never downgrade to a Corvette, I'm a Viper guy!" seems to be the sentiment. You forget that team Viper left us zero to buy, to replace our Vipers. Zero. It is good to have alternatives, especially RWD and manual transmission.

I'll hedge that this ZR1 beats the ACR lap times. I know the GM guys on that team felt burned with the scorn of the weak C7Z development. This car was their revenge, with a proper budget, and the proper hardware and aero. The car they wanted, from the beginning - but were not allowed to build.

Agree with pretty much most things you say here...

[Scott_in_fl]

Since the ZR1 is blown it will be so easy to extract big power from simple pulley etc changes. It will be fun times for you track rats regardless of which camp you are in. Too bad there will be no new snakes going forward to match up with Vettes going forward. Going to miss that rivalry in the coming years.

The problem with Corvette blowers in the past (i.e. C7Z) was that the OEM blower was too small to be pushed much harder. It heat soaked too easily and could not be spun much faster without creating more heat (and actually less power). And, since there was no room left under the hood, there were few options to improve the SC (unless you cut the hood ala Callaway).

It will be interesting to see how much headroom GM has left in the ZR1 to spin the SC faster.

[7TH_SIGN]

Looks like a failed attempt at ACR'ing a Vette. Should be quick though. God the Viper looks so much better.

[Bruce H.]

I don't think we should focus on whether it's some kind of an ACR'd Vette. ACR is done and the Vette will be competing with the best of current models. Buyers who track will be interested in outstanding track performance and not whether it does it in the same way the ACR did.

[7TH_SIGN]

I don't think we should focus on whether it's some kind of an ACR'd Vette. ACR is done and the Vette will be competing with the best of current models. Buyers who track will be interested in outstanding track performance and not whether it does it in the same way the ACR did.

Absolutely. Only reason I said "ACR'ing" in contrast to the Viper is that to my knowledge (which isn't much for Chevy cars) this is the first time GM puts that large of a wing on a ZR1. They did that for obvious reasons. They're going after track performance.

[BrianACR]

It'll be fast, no doubt. But in the end it's still a 'vette. They make what, 50k of them every year? The Viper will always be a rare and special car regardless of if it's the fastest on track or not. My GenII gets more looks than friends c7's. The Viper is and I think always will be a better looking car. An really, who needs a blower to set lap times?? Lol

PS: I'm sure the first one I see will be driven by an old bald guy heading to the coffee shop.

[ViperDC]

The problem with Corvette blowers in the past (i.e. C7Z) was that the OEM blower was too small to be pushed much harder. It heat soaked too easily and could not be spun much faster without creating more heat (and actually less power). And, since there was no room left under the hood, there were few options to improve the SC (unless you cut the hood ala Callaway).

It will be interesting to see how much headroom GM has left in the ZR1 to spin the SC faster.

This is a substantially bigger blower

[Photog1]

Since the ZR1 is blown it will be so easy to extract big power from simple pulley etc changes. It will be fun times for you track rats regardless of which camp you are in. Too bad there will be no new snakes going forward to match up with Vettes going forward. Going to miss that rivalry in the coming years.

Me too! The rivalry was a good thing!

[BlknBlu]

Mid Vette Life Crisis and current club Prez.

http://www.bluemaize.net/im/sunglasses/old-people-sunglasses-5.jpg


i couldnt resist.

Bruce

[Simms]

I think it will be a great performance car, and respected by others. But not for me... I've never been a fan of the Vette.

Unfortunately the only ones you will see in my area will be at cars and coffee or a Sunday drive. Should be a performer on the track though. Better than ACR? Yet to be seen. I'll keep my ACR regardless of how god the new ZR1 performs. Who knows, maybe this new car will push someone at FCA to answer with a new G6 down the road (not holding breath).

[Stealth]

Will be super fast and an excellent performer. It is definitely good for sportscars and drives improvement for others. I am not a big fan of C7 styling and would be reluctant to get the ZR1 given the end of the C7 platform and commencement of the new mid-engine C8. I hope it reclaims the Ring record for U-S-A! (although no active aero is not ideal). Btw, what ever happened to a Ford GT Ring Time? (You know, that bargain, v-6 $500k Ford).

[Scott_in_fl]

FGT is already forgotten, like the new NSX. Both look great, but are soundly trounced by all the newer cars like 720s, performante, GT2 RS, and now ZR1.

[13COBRA]

FGT is already forgotten, like the new NSX. Both look great, but are soundly trounced by all the newer cars like 720s, performante, GT2 RS, and now ZR1.

It's ok to be forgotten, they 10 times as many applications to buy as they produced lol

[IndyRon]

I'm definitely interested in the car just without the snow shovel front splitter. I'd opt for the lowest aero version and make it a street terror.

Regarding the FGT, I think it was forgotten because they made so few at such a high price that they were destined to be garage ornaments and investments from day one. No one that got one through their vetting process will ever drive theirs regularly, let alone hit WOT or God forbid...a track (gasp!)

[catwood]

Mid Vette Life Crisis and current club Prez.

http://www.bluemaize.net/im/sunglasses/old-people-sunglasses-5.jpg


i couldnt resist.

Bruce

Is that Flanders now?

[Pappy]

I would like to see the CD. I remember Tadge a couple of years ago saying that in order to fix the Z06 cooling problems they would have to open up the grille which would have serious impacts on drag and weight - on top of that add the drag from the wing. Has anyone seen the top speed estimates from GM?

Pappy

[LmeaViper]

It's hard to really tell what it will look like in person, but no doubt it won't have the nice lines that the Viper does. I was thinking about the Zr1 more last night and recalled a motor trend video I saw where they criticized the Z06 saying it wouldn't put the power down (of which I have no idea about). So kind of wondering, if that observation is correct, then how will the added HP on a lower speed corner will play out in this car...we shall see. If it lives up to expectations then a guy might need to get one some day.

[99RT10]

It'll be fast, no doubt. But in the end it's still a 'vette. They make what, 50k of them every year? The Viper will always be a rare and special car regardless of if it's the fastest on track or not. My GenII gets more looks than friends c7's. The Viper is and I think always will be a better looking car. An really, who needs a blower to set lap times?? Lol

PS: I'm sure the first one I see will be driven by an old bald guy heading to the coffee shop.

Really? Just a Vette. Such a tired phrase. I am not a vette guy, but you have to appreciate what Chevy has built here in the ZR1. I fully expect it to take some of the records from the Viper on most of the tracks around the country. It has over 100 more HP. The GM engineers have full access to all the neat tech available and you can bet they put that thing in a wind tunnel to fine tune the aero.

And I don't see them building more than 2000 ZR1s and it's nothing close to the base vette.

I am not bald(yet), but I would love to drive one. Still a Viper guy to the core, but this these are great times for performance cars and I will embrace any that can put out down some good numbers.

[Coloviper]

They can fix a lot of things and make it faster or the fastest but I guess you can not fix ugly as the car’s looks are an evolving and finer polish on a turd. Not a new Vette fan but can appreciate the speed and numbers it produces. It’s just soooooooo....... ugly! Hope the new midengine version abandons this angular design.

[ForTehNguyen]

so vette owners that want to track heavily have to buy the 120k one so it doesnt overheat. Sweet

[Scott_in_fl]

Just like all of the other newest cars coming to market, the ZR1 is not going to be tracked heavily by more than 10% of the owners (and that is probably too high an estimate).

The 720S, Performante, NFGT, and GT2RS are not going to be tracked by more than that either. These cars are going to be expel'd, tinted, ceramic coated, vinyl wrapped, fit with oversize custom wheels, and made into rolling showpieces.

Like it or not, the reality is that supercar buyers today are, by and large, not "drivers" (i.e. those who are passionate about the mechanicals of an automobile and the sensation that comes from operating it) but guys who like to show their latest and greatest toys at the local cars and coffee. They would love to tell you how their car is the 'Ring king, but they wouldn't know how to find the nearest racetrack if you paid them to do it.

The ZR1 is targeted at those buyers. They want an easy to drive, comfortable .... and most importantly, good looking car that looks like it must be fast and can gain acceptance into the "cool kids club." I think the ZR1 will do that. And, I expect it to look much better in person than in photos.

[13COBRA]

I'm definitely interested in the car just without the snow shovel front splitter. I'd opt for the lowest aero version and make it a street terror.

Regarding the FGT, I think it was forgotten because they made so few at such a high price that they were destined to be garage ornaments and investments from day one. No one that got one through their vetting process will ever drive theirs regularly, let alone hit WOT or God forbid...a track (gasp!)

No time, but the trap was 135mph with a terrible hook up.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L23uQU7nqY

[CNU_Physics]

http://www.corvetteonline.com/news/2019-corvette-zr1-revealed-with-full-pics-and-specs/
29583
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[SharpMan]

That's awesome! So basically the engine doesn't fit under the hood!!!!


http://www.corvetteonline.com/news/2019-corvette-zr1-revealed-with-full-pics-and-specs/
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[ViperJon]

Just my opinion but from a purely aesthetic point of view that wing looks right out of the JC Whitney catalog.
Doesn't flow at all with the car in the way the ACR wing does.

[GTS21]

Looks amazing to me, and should be a beast!!

[RedTanRT/10]

Just my opinion but from a purely aesthetic point of view that wing looks right out of the JC Whitney catalog.
Doesn't flow at all with the car in the way the ACR wing does.

Jon, its that edgy transformers look I think GM does a better job with the edginess on the Cadillicas, some of the vette and camaro lines just don't flow

[Whiskey]

That 10sp trans-axle grafted into the rear of the Viper would be insanely good! Thanks FCA for not joining in on the development when you where invited.

I'm going to call it now...1000rwhp+ with minor boltons (pullies, tune, intake and headers/exhaust).

[kriskyk]

That 10sp trans-axle grafted into the rear of the Viper would be insanely good! Thanks FCA for not joining in on the development when you where invited.

I'm going to call it now...1000rwhp+ with minor boltons (pullies, tune, intake and headers/exhaust).

Not with the oem the fuel management system it won't.... direct injection is a whole nother ball game

[Dman]

I could see this tempting me to move out of my GT500 and into this. My ACR is my ACR. I love my GT500, after 12 stangs and two GT500's, that's obvious. But, the 'merican fun car to drive when I'm going places I don't want to risk taking my ACR ... could end up being one of these ZR1's and making me drop the GT500, and that's saying a lot. And that targa, yummy.

[Scott_in_fl]

Just my opinion but from a purely aesthetic point of view that wing looks right out of the JC Whitney catalog.
Doesn't flow at all with the car in the way the ACR wing does.

Yeah, the wing is surprisingly bad looking in these photos. I can't imagine GM doing that poor a job. It has to be the angle of the photo that is accentuating some very strange lines.

The Camaro ZL1 1LE actually looks really neat in person -- even its somewhat similar carbon wing in the back. So I have a feeling this ZR1 will actually look a lot better in real life.

The ACR wing is 10x better even though I'm still not the biggest fan of it (mainly because of the endplates). I still think that Porsche does wings the best (and they should... they've been doing big wings for 40 years now).

[VENOM V]

I welcome a car that can compete with the ACR at the track. At the tracks around here, very few stock cars can run in the same zip code with an Extreme. With the Porsche GT2 and the ZR1 coming out, maybe we will have folks that can run with us competitively. It's more fun when you have someone running similar lap times. I like the challenge.

[ZeeViper]

i was thinking about this on the way home last night....

The money lost on trading/selling a viper to move to a ZR1 could easily be put into a heads/cam/9.0l car. Still trackable, still amazing looking...all things that are good, haha.

[Scott_in_fl]

No time, but the trap was 135mph with a terrible hook up.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L23uQU7nqY

So now you just sit on the line and all you do is release the brake? Seems like the car handles the launch and you don't even paddle shift any more. I honestly don't see the point any longer in drag racing these newer self-driving cars.

It's like racing the 10-year old at the local kiddie go kart park when the cars only go 12 mph and all the skill in the world won't get you ahead of him if he has the faster kart. He's all over the place and we're on a perfect racing line. My 6-year old daughter riding shotgun wonders why we always lose and I have to tell her there's nothing we can do :(

[Stealth78]

Not sure how factual the information is that someone else had previously posted but if the ZR1 can hang with the ACR on track and puts down numbers like sub 11 second 1/4 mile times and has a top speed around 210mph, this car will appeal to many. Not sure how it's able to achieve top speeds 30-40mph greater than the ACR while still supplying significant downforce bit if it is true... Wow!

[13COBRA]

So now you just sit on the line and all you do is release the brake? Seems like the car handles the launch and you don't even paddle shift any more. I honestly don't see the point any longer in drag racing these newer self-driving cars.

It's like racing the 10-year old at the local kiddie go kart park when the cars only go 12 mph and all the skill in the world won't get you ahead of him if he has the faster kart. He's all over the place and we're on a perfect racing line. My 6-year old daughter riding shotgun wonders why we always lose and I have to tell her there's nothing we can do :(

Have you ever seen a GTR?

You have a hard on for the ACR, we get it lol


Not sure how factual the information is that someone else had previously posted but if the ZR1 can hang with the ACR on track and puts down numbers like sub 11 second 1/4 mile times and has a top speed around 210mph, this car will appeal to many. Not sure how it's able to achieve top speeds 30-40mph greater than the ACR while still supplying significant downforce bit if it is true... Wow!

I'd like to see a total downforce number.

[Racingswh]

I welcome a car that can compete with the ACR at the track. At the tracks around here, very few stock cars can run in the same zip code with an Extreme. With the Porsche GT2 and the ZR1 coming out, maybe we will have folks that can run with us competitively. It's more fun when you have someone running similar lap times. I like the challenge.

Me too. In the hands of the right Driver this car will be extremely quick and give us all that we can handle!! Fun track days ahead!!

[Voice of Reason]

It’s going to be a performance monster, we should probably hope Chevy doesn’t cart it and their multi million dollar budget around the US just to break all of the ACR track records. Someone who wants the latest and greatest should jump at it. And as someone else said that’s going to bring some great low mile never tracked ACR Es to the market. Myself though I bought my Viper for the long haul, this generation of Corvette is going to age just as poorly as the C4s have, this angular design may be popular now but history has shown this styling does not hold up well in the long term. So if you trade cars every few years I say go for it.

[Scott_in_fl]

Have you ever seen a GTR?

You have a hard on for the ACR, we get it lol



I'd like to see a total downforce number.

I've owned one (GTR). Great car but the driving experience was lacking. But they're all GTR's now.

My issue is not so much one car vs. the others (I actually like them all) but rather the squid factor that these GTR-like cars seem to attract.

Have you seen Chris Harris drive a Viper? That's driving that I can appreciate.

This nonsense about setting a computer program to auto launch a car and then just sitting back for 10 seconds is absurd. It may say a lot about the capabilities of the car, but it says nothing about the driver. To me, that is tremendously uninteresting because anyone can build a car to go fast (although I can appreciate the mad skills needed to cut a quick drag race time the old fashioned way).

And yes, the ACR is great because it is such a bold statement that screams loud and clear "no p#ssies"! I love that FCA never, ever in 25 years gave in to the mainstream and built this car only for people that are committed enough to either have the skills already or want to learn how to drive it. No automatic ever offered. Bravo!

[LmeaViper]

https://driveviper.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29583&d=1510332061&thumb=1

Other than the wing, I think it is sharp looking.

[ek1]

And I'm pretty sure this car will be faster around many tracks than the ACR. Chew on that a bit.
S.

I agree. With more HP, more torque and less aero it will be faster on longer tracks with faster corners. Oh yeah and dont forget tires that do not self-destruct in 1 track day. And thats absolutely fine. Does not make the ACR any less than it is.

We should all be grateful that GM made this car. Competition is always great.

[slitherv10]

Back in the early 90's Vipers were feared and the real King Of The Hills. Unfortunately as the years went by, dodge had no answers to the other car makers evolutions. The GTR, the ZO6 and the ZR1 to name a few in 2009 and beyond. They had every chance to revive its Royalty but never did. Adding a few HP's every year did nothing for the car. It eventually lost its lustre until it finally died in the hands of the makers themselves. If they would have done to the Viper what they have done to the Charger and Challenger they would have sold many and stayed alive. Someone obviously wanted to pull the plug on these cars. Someone with enough power under their belt that could make it happen. a 840HP Viper Demon would have done the job and shut everyone up. But, a few on this site continued to say how the Viper was always a track car and HP was not important. If we had less of those guys and more of the naysayers, it may have been a different result.

Just my Opinion

[Snorman]

lol...the people that spend lots of time on-track realize that this car will be at least as fast an an ACR.
More power. Pretty decent downforce (although not as much as an ACR-E). Is available in a quick-shifting, aggressively geared auto. And GM added FOUR heat exchangers with substantial changes to the bodywork to feed air to them.
It's got a 10% better power to weight ratio than a C7 Z06 with the same gearing. And those things already run mid-10's with an A8 and high-10's with a manual. So figure somebody will take a ZR1 and go a 10.4 or so with it with an A8. And it's a guarantee that they'll be showing up on tracks around the country.
S.

[darbgnik]

But, a few on this site continued to say how the Viper was always a track car and HP was not important.


The Viper was not always a track car, at least in it's first iteration. It was and engine with wheels bolted onto it.

Sorry, but it was many, many years before the Viper was even a competent handling car, let alone a track car. That being said, in it's later years it was definitely bent towards the road course, but that was evolutionary.

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ True. At first, the question was "wouldn't it be wild if we could build....." And they did. The Gen 2 was the first to became highly developed on the track in the GTS platform and Gen 3 benefitted from that. Had it not been for that Gen 2 GTS, they likely would have had to pull the plug long ago.

[Snakebit10]

After seeing what the GT2 RS did with much less downforce than the ACR on the Ring I don't know why anyone would discount the new Vette's lower df numbers as proof it wont be as fast or faster than the ACR on some or most tracks. Its possible, especially given better stock tires, better power etc. Its also possible it will be just as fast as the ACR. Bottomline it will be a faaaast car on street and track.

The Viper needed at least 120hp more to offset the monster aero and gearing to match. Bottom line it needed what it has always needed from the inception..........A real budget in the hands of Lutz/Ralph etc.

What we got was absolutely stunning but it shouldn't be sour grapes when it loses since its losing to "some" big budget cars while still annihilating other big budget cars. For whatever reason the owners never desired to give it the budget it needed. All hissssstory now. Got to be glad the Viper ACR lit the fire under GM to produce this ACR-like ZR1. Now I hope it lives up the the ZR1 name and the track killing looks.

OT: It will be interesting to see how a full bolt-on ACR, H&C or 9L conversion will do against the ZR1, 720's, GT2 RS. I didn't add the Performante since it got beat easily by the AMG GTR, a car the ACR crushed on the Ring. It will be eyeopening seeing what times these cars can run here. I don't think the ACR is done quite yet. Its still the production track car to beat stateside.

[13COBRA]

This nonsense about setting a computer program to auto launch a car and then just sitting back for 10 seconds is absurd. It may say a lot about the capabilities of the car, but it says nothing about the driver. To me, that is tremendously uninteresting because anyone can build a car to go fast (although I can appreciate the mad skills needed to cut a quick drag race time the old fashioned way).

I get what you're saying..but before they came out with drag radial tires, people raced on regular tires. I'm sure when the drag radials came out the old timers said they were cheating.

Then when line lock was invented.

Sequential shifters.

Stability Control

Traction Control

4WD.

ETC ETC ETC.


Manufacturers are making their cars faster and easier to drive; can you imagine the slack they would get producing a 'hypercar' and only having a manual transmission, without launch control, without..... Wouldn't happen. Times have changed. Luckily for you, you purchased an ACR-E when you did.

I look forward to seeing all of your future threads when new supercars are announced bench racing an ACR-E against the world.

[Whiskey]

Not with the oem the fuel management system it won't.... direct injection is a whole nother ball game

Last I hear it was port AND DI injected.

[kriskyk]

Last I hear it was port AND DI injected.

That's going to be amazing then if true

[Vegaskid]

Would have thought a whole new exterior redesign...looks like they slapped some aero on it and pushed it out the door.

Looks nice, but so will the other 20K vettes on the road

[F2V]

I like the wing vs the ACR's. Much more complimentary to the lines of the car imo. Will be interesting to see its track performance.

[ek1]

That's going to be amazing then if true

It is, according to direct quotes from it's designers.

[ek1]

Anyway...I don't know why you guys are so much worried about ZR1 taking away Viper's thunder. It won't be the only one, not by a long shot. Just read this: http://www.automobilemag.com/news/first-drive-2018-porsche-911-gt2-rs/?wc_mid=4035:9587&wc_rid=4035:1315950&_wcsid=319999602FE0BBA719B31E6DC7785DA4AE00497388F 9ACFE

[Racingswh]

Anyway...I don't know why you guys are so much worried about ZR1 taking away Viper's thunder. It won't be the only one, not by a long shot. Just read this: http://www.automobilemag.com/news/first-drive-2018-porsche-911-gt2-rs/?wc_mid=4035:9587&wc_rid=4035:1315950&_wcsid=319999602FE0BBA719B31E6DC7785DA4AE00497388F 9ACFE

Very nice!

[Scott_in_fl]

There will be a new car every year that will be able to beat the ACR. We cannot stop progress. However, they are only becoming more and more self-driven. I do believe that if you wanted a true driver's car, the best such car of the current era was likely the ACR. Before that it was probably the Carrera GT. And then before that Ford GT and then pre-996 911s.

[ek1]

There will be a new car every year that will be able to beat the ACR. We cannot stop progress. However, they are only becoming more and more self-driven. I do believe that if you wanted a true driver's car, the best such car of the current era was likely the ACR. Before that it was probably the Carrera GT. And then before that Ford GT and then pre-996 911s.

You are absolutely right, let's all remember when Nissan GT-R came out in 2008 and was instantly put on a pedestal as a "giant killer", etc. It was blowing by anything street legal on a race track. Porsche engineers were sweating bullets, because GT-R was faster than anything they could cough up at the time. 9 short years later every review that includes a GT-R says things like "outdated", "rough around the edges", "showing it's age", "too heavy", "no longer a contender", etc.


You also have a point about about cars becoming more self-driven, but let's not forget the main reason most of the people track their cars: FUN. So if someone wants to take their fast car to the track, drive it with full driver aids on and have a blast, I say let them enjoy it in good health, as long as they dont pose a safety risk to others! They may be having at least as much or more fun as me driving an ACR with everything turned off off and shifting manually, while I am working twice as hard. For me it's all about work vs. fun ratio, which is why my next primary track car will absolutely have a DCT.

[Bruce H.]

I expect all media reviews to be very positive about its track performance but the acid test for me, for any car, are the experiences of actual owners who aggressively track them all day, in hot weather, repeatedly. That's when you find out how "track capable" a car really is. Tadge was proven pretty deceitful with his claims about the C7 Z51 and Z06 and I hope he's stress tested and fully addressed all track issues with this model. If he has I'm sure this will be a real winner for them and their buyers. I'd also expect very heavy consumables use, but that goes with the territory.

[stradman]

The Viper needed at least 120hp more to offset the monster aero and gearing to match. Bottom line it needed what it has always needed from the inception..........A real budget in the hands of Lutz/Ralph etc.

What we got was absolutely stunning but it shouldn't be sour grapes when it loses since its losing to "some" big budget cars while still annihilating other big budget cars. For whatever reason the owners never desired to give it the budget it needed. All hissssstory now. Got to be glad the Viper ACR lit the fire under GM to produce this ACR-like ZR1. Now I hope it lives up the the ZR1 name and the track killing looks.

OT: It will be interesting to see how a full bolt-on ACR, H&C or 9L conversion will do against the ZR1, 720's, GT2 RS. I didn't add the Performante since it got beat easily by the AMG GTR, a car the ACR crushed on the Ring. It will be eyeopening seeing what times these cars can run here. I don't think the ACR is done quite yet. Its still the production track car to beat stateside.

Well I can tell you that I for one will be finding out on this side of the Atlantic soon enough how it stacks up to the new competition on track. Car will be going to Prefix soon, for its ultimate N/A track transformation, to have Heads and Cam, 9 Liter stroker, gearbox and diff coolers, Accusump and 0.81 5th gear and final drive 3.33. Its become an arms race with cars as of lately and a few friends of mine already have GT2RS's as well as a couple of the new P15 Mclarens coming their way so I need to be able to stay in sight. And then you have the ZR1 as well.
I think in this above ultimate guise, with about 700 rwhp, the ACR will still remain competitive in the foreseeable future, but clearly I will also need to up my driving game a bit more as well!

Dang, I wish I wasn't this competitive myself but there you go.....:t0152:

[ACRucrazy]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a13517850/2019-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-release-date-specs-photos/


The Dodge Viper ACR might be dead, but there seems to be a new King of the Hill.

[stradman]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a13517850/2019-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-release-date-specs-photos/

Sounds very tasty..! Its interesting also how the interior configuration looks very similar to a Gen V ACR!

[Hemibob]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a13517850/2019-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-release-date-specs-photos/

Rear tires are 355 Michelin pilots? New option for ACR?

[stradman]

Rear tires are 355 Michelin pilots? New option for ACR?

Only if they're 19 inches....

[Arizona Vipers]

I welcome a car that can compete with the ACR at the track. At the tracks around here, very few stock cars can run in the same zip code with an Extreme. With the Porsche GT2 and the ZR1 coming out, maybe we will have folks that can run with us competitively. It's more fun when you have someone running similar lap times. I like the challenge.

↑↑↑↑↑↑ This ↑↑↑↑↑↑

[ACRucrazy]

http://www.corvetteonline.com/news/2019-corvette-zr1-revealed-with-full-pics-and-specs/


With FOUR heat exchangers in the new proboscis. Each nostril also contains a radiator and intercooler as well. The car tips the scale 140 pounds heavier than the Z06, mostly ahead of front wheels.


How Much?
Look for an MSRP of roughly $120,000.00


The 2018 Corvette Model Year Will Be the Shortest In Decades
Unclaimed dealer orders ended October 27.
After a brand new paint line added, Bowling Green resumes ’18 production on November 6.
Orders for 2018 terminate November 16.
Last week of 2018 production is January 22. 2018 model year will be roughly three months long, with only 9,700 models produced.

2019 Corvette Model Year Begins End of January
Order guide goes live November 20.
Orders commence November 30.
2019 production starts January 29.

[darbgnik]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a13517850/2019-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-release-date-specs-photos/

I can't be the only one that thinks that car wears gray paint really well? I also wonder if those 355 rear tires are on 19" wheels..

[commandomatt]

I can't be the only one that thinks that car wears gray paint really well? I also wonder if those 355 rear tires are on 19" wheels..

I agree, the grey looks really nice

They are 20" wheels. The tires are 335/25/20

[Gen2man]

Vipers have spured Corvette development since 1996.

[Racingswh]

Well I can tell you that I for one will be finding out on this side of the Atlantic soon enough how it stacks up to the new competition on track. Car will be going to Prefix soon, for its ultimate N/A track transformation, to have Heads and Cam, 9 Liter stroker, gearbox and diff coolers, Accusump and 0.81 5th gear and final drive 3.33. Its become an arms race with cars as of lately and a few friends of mine already have GT2RS's as well as a couple of the new P15 Mclarens coming their way so I need to be able to stay in sight. And then you have the ZR1 as well.
I think in this above ultimate guise, with about 700 rwhp, the ACR will still remain competitive in the foreseeable future, but clearly I will also need to up my driving game a bit more as well!

Dang, I wish I wasn't this competitive myself but there you go.....:t0152:

What's the determined benefit behind those final drive and 5th gear choices?

[stradman]

What's the determined benefit behind those final drive and 5th gear choices?

It just suits the tracks I am at, predominantly Silverstone, Spa, and the Ring....

[ACRSNK]

Vipers have spured Corvette development since 1996.

I would say since 92 as evidenced by the 93 ZR-1 that came out with 405 H.P. besting the Viper by a whopping 5 H.P.

[darbgnik]

Not much love for the ZR1 on the Viper fb page either it seems....

Strangely, most comments are that they only made small changes, but I don't understand that being a problem. What if the smallest change had the largest benefit? Would it not be a worthwhile change to make?

Then there's the complaints about charging too much for so few changes. On the surface it may not look like much, bigger supercharger, more coolers, different front bumper and hood, and some aero. But there's also the dual fuel injection system, the first I've heard of, plus a bunch more carbon fiber panels to try to offset the weight gain. Seems like a thoroughly engineered upgrade package. And 755 hp is a big number.

[ViperTony]

With 13 heat exchangers it should be a beast.

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[ForTehNguyen]

seems like cooling will be a lot better this time around, properly sized supercharger, additional cooling from aux radiators to help cool AT fluid and oil. There was way too much heat load on the Z06 radiator (same part number as a regular vette). I wonder if they relocated the oil cooler so its not near the catalytic converter (becomes oil heater). People were designing heat shields to block radiant heat from the cats. Wonder if they did anything to stop the power steering rack from overheating too, radiator sheds heat right onto the steering rack.

29626

[EZ 2B Green]

The question I have is: how many will they build? With a short 2018 production run (ending in January) and well over a 100 day supply of C7's on dealer lots, with winter approaching and the mid-engine car on the way, this could be one rare Vette.

[Racingswh]

It just suits the tracks I am at, predominantly Silverstone, Spa, and the Ring....

The benefit may very well be the fact that you can carry a little more speed in the 2-4 gears and not have to make shifts at inopportune times. I wish for just a little more 4th gear all the time.

It will be wild at the new power level. Very nice!!

[ek1]

Well I can tell you that I for one will be finding out on this side of the Atlantic soon enough how it stacks up to the new competition on track. Car will be going to Prefix soon, for its ultimate N/A track transformation, to have Heads and Cam, 9 Liter stroker, gearbox and diff coolers, Accusump and 0.81 5th gear and final drive 3.33. Its become an arms race with cars as of lately and a few friends of mine already have GT2RS's as well as a couple of the new P15 Mclarens coming their way so I need to be able to stay in sight. And then you have the ZR1 as well.
I think in this above ultimate guise, with about 700 rwhp, the ACR will still remain competitive in the foreseeable future, but clearly I will also need to up my driving game a bit more as well!

Dang, I wish I wasn't this competitive myself but there you go.....:t0152:

Pls post info about the accusump and gearbox cooler installs in a separate thread.

[ek1]

I can't be the only one that thinks that car wears gray paint really well? I also wonder if those 355 rear tires are on 19" wheels..

Wow....it looks GORGEOUS in Gray (then again, i am biased, I have 3 gray cars, including the ACR).

I totally dig the Transformer angular look, suits the car really well. The wing plays into it as well.

Interior looks great, but they made a HUGE mistake with the glossy carbon fiber wheel. Glossy carbon fiber wheel on a track car? Really, GM? Nothing Caravvagio can't fix, but still...dumb move on their part.

[stradman]

The benefit may very well be the fact that you can carry a little more speed in the 2-4 gears and not have to make shifts at inopportune times. I wish for just a little more 4th gear all the time.

It will be wild at the new power level. Very nice!!

Basically yes....I discussed all the options with Dick Winkles. He also told me that had they configured the ratios like this at the Ring car would have been even more suited.

[stradman]

Pls post info about the accusump and gearbox cooler installs in a separate thread.

There's one for the accusump already https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/18554-Accusump-Install

[Snakebit10]

Very nice Stradman. That sounds like yours will be the most epic tracked ACR. With those mods it certainly will be future proofed for a while against the upcoming supercar onslaught. Any plans on a diet? The car not you :)

[13COBRA]

Makes sense.


It gives the ZR1 an estimated 950 lbs. of downforce near its top speed.


Said top speed is "somewhere above" 210 miles per hour, as long as you stick to the standard wing.

[Dman]

I love it when I'm right, that gunmetal gray, I'm ready to buy right now. Tough part will be waiting for the 20% discounts to take effect, lol.

[ViperDC]

Just like all of the other newest cars coming to market, the ZR1 is not going to be tracked heavily by more than 10% of the owners (and that is probably too high an estimate).

The 720S, Performante, NFGT, and GT2RS are not going to be tracked by more than that either. These cars are going to be expel'd, tinted, ceramic coated, vinyl wrapped, fit with oversize custom wheels, and made into rolling showpieces.

Like it or not, the reality is that supercar buyers today are, by and large, not "drivers" (i.e. those who are passionate about the mechanicals of an automobile and the sensation that comes from operating it) but guys who like to show their latest and greatest toys at the local cars and coffee. They would love to tell you how their car is the 'Ring king, but they wouldn't know how to find the nearest racetrack if you paid them to do it.


how many times has your car been on a road course? drag strip?


just curious

[ViperDC]

Have you seen Chris Harris drive a Viper? That's driving that I can appreciate.


What, powersliding around like a dipshit? I can't stand Chris Harris

[Scott_in_fl]

It seems like the MFG's have settled on about 1,000 lbs. of downforce as the optimal amount for current gen sports cars. It apparently gives enough traction for current tire technology to utilize, but allows significant top speeds.

Although 210 mph is not reached anywhere but maybe the 'Ring on that one long straight, it is an important marketing point that car MFG's like to bandy about.

But, what this also tells us that we likely will not see another 1,700 lb. downforce car anytime soon (unless there is a bunch of active aero, and even then, those cars still do not make much more than 1,100 lbs (see Mac P1)). The 177mph top speed that comes with that is just not sexy enough to entice the mainstream buyer so that an MFG can sell thousands of cars.

[ViperDC]

Would have thought a whole new exterior redesign...looks like they slapped some aero on it and pushed it out the door.

Looks nice, but so will the other 20K vettes on the road

This car looks much more different than a regular Vette or even Z06 than a ACR does vs a regular Viper

[TrackAire]

I love it when I'm right, that gunmetal gray, I'm ready to buy right now. Tough part will be waiting for the 20% discounts to take effect, lol.

I'm thinking all black would look like pure evil and Storm Trooper white would like a surgical instrument for the track. I can't wait to see what this new Vette will do on the track, gotta be frustrating times for the GT3 crowd as the Camaro ZL1 1LE apprears to run as fast and you know this Vette will be even faster.

[Policy Limits]

150k for a loaded ZR1 or 170k for a nice lp640 or for a nice 458 italia. Hmmmm...and the latter hold value much better, though they're not new. It would be an interesting price point. I think at 120k the ZR1 would be a no Brainer though. Why do they depreciate so poorly?

[ViperJon]

This car looks much more different than a regular Vette or even Z06 than a ACR does vs a regular Viper

Not to worry. All the ZR1 parts will be orderable so there will be lots of base Vette clones running around.

[ViperJon]

But, what this also tells us that we likely will not see another 1,700 lb. downforce car anytime soon (unless there is a bunch of active aero, and even then, those cars still do not make much more than 1,100 lbs (see Mac P1)). The 177mph top speed that comes with that is just not sexy enough to entice the mainstream buyer so that an MFG can sell thousands of cars.

Unfortunately it appears that 1700 lbs of down force is actually working against the car in many instances and tracks where top speed comes into play like Nurburgring.

By the way, is the ACR-E wing adjustable so that there is LESS downforce or is 1700 lb the minimum setting?

[Space Truckin]

By the way, is the ACR-E wing adjustable so that there is LESS downforce or is 1700 lb the minimum setting?

It is adjustable, (2) settings IIRC....

[ACR]

Good shots of the car. Imo too ricer / kit looking; interior is decent san the mats


https://youtu.be/O_adY_b-aLQ

[Scott_in_fl]

ViperJon, agreed. 1,700lbs. of downforce has thus far proven to be more than what can be used (at least insofar as the Ring is concerned). The better "formula" for the Ring is less than 1,000lbs. of DF and 200+mph top speed.

However, on shorter tracks, where the ACR holds records, it is still to be determined whether the formula of 1,700lbs DF and a relatively low top speed still results in the quickest lap times or not.

Given the recent test with the MB GT-R beating the 720S and Performante, and the ACR apparently able to cut a quicker lap time than a GT-R, the ACR "formula" may still be the right one on US tracks. It is at least an interesting hypothesis to see how the DF/TS ratio plays out on different types of circuits.

And yes, the wing is adjustable. Need a special tool for the security head bolts/nuts. 1700lbs is the max setting.

[Racingswh]

The 177mph top speed that comes with that is just not sexy enough to entice the mainstream buyer so that an MFG can sell thousands of cars.

What I find really important is that it looks like the ZR1 will go 150 MPH in 4th with a 26.8" tall tire on it and will probably have a .82 5th like the Z06. That's going to make the thing incredibly formidable on a US road course.

When you have to use 5th gear it will still pull ok while my ACR-E is struggling to accelerate at all. In 5th the 3.42 /.82 5th combo will just naturally pull harder than the 3.55 / .77 in my ACR-E and add on top of that the thing has 115 more HP. ZR1 is going to be extremely quick.

I bet, if the thing holds together and doesn't go into limp mode, it's damn near as quick as a GT1 / TA1 car and just a couple seconds slower than the GTLM cars at most tracks. That's insane to me.

I bought my Wife a Grand Sport and am shocked at how composed the chassis is. Honestly at most track events you don't even need to take the ACR-E out of the trailer. The Grand Sport is fast enough to play and have fun with lot's of other cars. The Viper is for lap time hunting. This new ZR1 will be even quicker than the ACR-E.

What the claimed top speed of a car is has lost any significance for me. This ACR-E has me spoiled and has shown me so clearly that high claimed top speeds couldn't make any less of a difference. It means to me that a car accelerates more slowly than it could if it were geared properly for the road courses where I use the car.

[stradman]

What I find really important is that it looks like the ZR1 will go 150 MPH in 4th with a 26.8" tall tire on it and will probably have a .82 5th like the Z06. That's going to make the thing incredibly formidable on a US road course.

When you have to use 5th gear it will still pull ok while my ACR-E is struggling to accelerate at all. In 5th the 3.42 /.82 5th combo will just naturally pull harder than the 3.55 / .77 in my ACR-E and add on top of that the thing has 115 more HP. ZR1 is going to be extremely quick.

I bet, if the thing holds together and doesn't go into limp mode, it's damn near as quick as a GT1 / TA1 car and just a couple seconds slower than the GTLM cars at most tracks. That's insane to me.

I bought my Wife a Grand Sport and am shocked at how composed the chassis is. Honestly at most track events you don't even need to take the ACR-E out of the trailer. The Grand Sport is fast enough to play and have fun with lot's of other cars. The Viper is for lap time hunting. This new ZR1 will be even quicker than the ACR-E.

What the claimed top speed of a car is has lost any significance for me. This ACR-E has me spoiled and has shown me so clearly that high claimed top speeds couldn't make any less of a difference. It means to me that a car accelerates more slowly than it could if it were geared properly for the road courses where I use the car.

Records and achievements are simply made to be broken and of course all the above stands to reason. Progress just doesn't stand still...

[Arizona Vipers]

It is adjustable, (2) settings IIRC....

There's 4 settings. Seems like most track guys on here (myself included) like the lowest setting best

[Nine Ball]

I know someone that helped develop the supercharger on this car. It is a 2.65L sized unit. That is a pretty large unit! Current C7 Z06 has a 1.6L blower. The previous ZR1 had a 2.3L unit. The Hellcat has a 2.4L unit.

The previous 2.3L unit could produce 800-850 hp boosted up. This larger 2.65L unit will produce 1000-1100 turned up.

Someone else mentioned the Direct Injection fuel system as a limiter. I'd agree. But the ZR1 has both a DI system, and port-injection set of injectors too. People will easily be able to modify the port injector sizes to handle more power...

Things will be interesting.

[gfviperman]

It its still one ugly car ...

[Unlimtd]

Subjective aesthetics aside. The new ZR1 is an interesting vehicle. Two different wings available. The larger one being the one shown in the photos. Larger supercharger. Revised and upgraded intercooling and radiator system. Seven speed manual or eight speed upgraded automatic. Tweaked suspension. Wider front tires to accommodate the extra weight. There is no doubt in my mind that the car, with the track package which includes the larger wing will beat the times of the ACR extreme. Why? Because the car may weigh more than the 3393 pound ACR extreme but it has considerably more power ( and I would guess the power comes in earlier) and with the seven speed manual and the eight speed auto, that power will be able to be used significantly more efficiently. The eight speed auto variant will be a monster on the drag strip that will not require the skill of someone like Nine Ball to power shift and drive. The car weighs 900 pounds less than a Challenger Hellcat and has more HP and Torque. I have never owned a GM product but I am curious about this one.

[Scott_in_fl]

What I find really important is that it looks like the ZR1 will go 150 MPH in 4th with a 26.8" tall tire on it and will probably have a .82 5th like the Z06. That's going to make the thing incredibly formidable on a US road course.

When you have to use 5th gear it will still pull ok while my ACR-E is struggling to accelerate at all. In 5th the 3.42 /.82 5th combo will just naturally pull harder than the 3.55 / .77 in my ACR-E and add on top of that the thing has 115 more HP. ZR1 is going to be extremely quick.

I bet, if the thing holds together and doesn't go into limp mode, it's damn near as quick as a GT1 / TA1 car and just a couple seconds slower than the GTLM cars at most tracks. That's insane to me.

I bought my Wife a Grand Sport and am shocked at how composed the chassis is. Honestly at most track events you don't even need to take the ACR-E out of the trailer. The Grand Sport is fast enough to play and have fun with lot's of other cars. The Viper is for lap time hunting. This new ZR1 will be even quicker than the ACR-E.

What the claimed top speed of a car is has lost any significance for me. This ACR-E has me spoiled and has shown me so clearly that high claimed top speeds couldn't make any less of a difference. It means to me that a car accelerates more slowly than it could if it were geared properly for the road courses where I use the car.

It will be awesome for sure. And I think you're 100% correct that the gearing is going to be a real game changer if they get it right. It is absolute nonsense that our 5th and 6th gears are basically useless.

But, I don't know if I'm quite ready to say that it will beat an ACR around most tracks. My Z06, as much as I loved it, never felt anywhere near as planted as my ACR does at higher speeds. In my experience, Corvettes always seem to have an issue getting the power to the ground and conveying stability at high speeds. The steering is also nowhere near as direct, which contributes to the flighty feeling at speed.

So, we'll see. But, I love everything I'm reading about it thus far (especially Nine Ball's comment about 1000 - 1100hp. Wowsa!

[Policy Limits]

Great video. Just wow on that open hood. That super charger is massive! Exhaust sounds evil. If they limit production to 3k units I'll order one. But I'll hafta back it in to the garage to hide the tail lights. Lolz

[v10tt]

this car should make 850 rwhp easy on 93 with just bolt ons on stock heads and cam.



I know someone that helped develop the supercharger on this car. It is a 2.65L sized unit. That is a pretty large unit! Current C7 Z06 has a 1.6L blower. The previous ZR1 had a 2.3L unit. The Hellcat has a 2.4L unit.

The previous 2.3L unit could produce 800-850 hp boosted up. This larger 2.65L unit will produce 1000-1100 turned up.

Someone else mentioned the Direct Injection fuel system as a limiter. I'd agree. But the ZR1 has both a DI system, and port-injection set of injectors too. People will easily be able to modify the port injector sizes to handle more power...

Things will be interesting.

[Dman]

Man the more I read And watch the more want. Kind of feeling dirty, like I’m cheating on my wife. Getting a little excited to see this thing in person. I , I actually think I want this .... uh, corvette.

Oh dear God no, this may mean, ugh, err, I ‘ll have to get on the vette forum ... FML.

[WDW MKR]

So much hate in this thread. It’s disappointing to feel like I’m reading CorvetteForums or TurboBuick.com with some of the comments. I hope this car is a beast and they’ve learned from some of the C7Z early issues... appears that they have. Not that I could afford one, but that dark grey looks stellar (guess I’m biased with my Graphite GEN2).

I actually shop used C6ZR1s every now and then, before talking myself out of selling my car. :p0273:

[Policy Limits]

How long does a build take? 5 months?

[serpent]

I wish the gen V viper came out with at least 700hp.

[Angleiron]

The one thing that the Viper was great for (in my opinion) is that there was no confusion as to what variant it was...as there was only 1. To me having 4 different versions of the same model car takes away how special it could be. Somebody could slap that rear spoiler on any vette and you would not be able to tell unless you were very familiar with what else to look for.

[13COBRA]

I wish the gen V viper came out with at least 700hp.

9.0L package :dude3:


The one thing that the Viper was great for (in my opinion) is that there was no confusion as to what variant it was...as there was only 1. To me having 4 different versions of the same model car takes away how special it could be. Somebody could slap that rear spoiler on any vette and you would not be able to tell unless you were very familiar with what else to look for.

1 variant? lol

What about the Gen V's?

GT
GTS
ACR
TA
ACR/TA
etc etc etc

[OneofOneViper]

I wish the gen V viper came out with at least 700hp.

Even the ACR viper came out 2 years ago. The ZR1 doesn't come out for another year. You can't expect something to come out with the same horsepower 3 years later, not to mention the ZR1 added about 200lbs.

The same should be pointed out about the viper running the Ring. They didn't run the ring until the vehicle had already been produced for over 2 years. Every other car beating the vipers time hasn't even released their car or are just about to release their car. 2-3 years makes a big difference.

[ViperJon]

1 variant? lol

What about the Gen V's?

GT
GTS
ACR
TA
ACR/TA
etc etc etc

Only one motor though.....never a waterdowned version. That's the key difference and always separated the Viper from Vettes and Mustangs.

[Snakebit10]

Even the ACR viper came out 2 years ago. The ZR1 doesn't come out for another year. You can't expect something to come out with the same horsepower 3 years later, not to mention the ZR1 added about 200lbs.

The same should be pointed out about the viper running the Ring. They didn't run the ring until the vehicle had already been produced for over 2 years. Every other car beating the vipers time hasn't even released their car or are just about to release their car. 2-3 years makes a big difference.

Isn't that what SRT did with the G5 Viper? They brought out the 2013 Viper, 3 years after G4 production ended, with pretty much the same hp as the out going ZR1 and then were surprised that it lost to the ZR1.

GM didn't do that this time. 105hp more than the outgoing ACR. That's how you do it. Not a huge fan of the addon's but it will be a beast. Even the Porsche guys are taking note of it. It will be interesting to see the times it runs. Either the GT2 RS or ZR1 will beat the Viper Laguna record. Which one will be top dog remains to be seen. Cant wait to see it all unfold.

[ACR]

Isn't that what SRT did with the G5 Viper? They brought out the 2013 Viper, 3 years after G4 production ended, with pretty much the same hp as the out going ZR1 and then were surprised that it lost to the ZR1.

GM didn't do that this time. 105hp more than the outgoing ACR. That's how you do it. Not a huge fan of the addon's but it will be a beast. Even the Porsche guys are taking note of it. It will be interesting to see the times it runs. Either the GT2 RS or ZR1 will beat the Viper Laguna record. Which one will be top dog remains to be seen. Cant wait to see it all unfold.

A lot has changed in the industry in recent years, though I do agree with your sentiments, the ACR should have had revised power plant. HOWEVER, Viper was on a shoestring budget and the 8.4 liter was maxed out as is without, punching it out or S/C, both of which would have had to gone through emissions certification which = $$$.

[Terminator02]

Think the car looks fine, actually better the more I see it. Is it Viper beautiful; hell no but hardly any cars are. It looks to be a monster and especially a tuned monster.

I am sure they exist but I cant think of a 90s car that still can be mistaken for a 2017 car by the common public like the gen 2 GTS cars. Timeless. Even one of my favorite 90s vehicles the NSX looks very dated now.

Vipers are likely the last of the combination of giant NA, stick, hand built notable race winning American exotics. Glad to have had a few.

More and more people are "demanding the driving" experience over the speed shattering but boring unengaging cars. I expect stick shift, active aero, responsive feedback, giant microphones for Big Brother and fabricated loud exhaust notes and very high hp small displacement turbo engines to evolve and keep even the enthusiasts intoxicated enough to want the shinier toy. For the last decade plus we have all read the same "is this the end of high hp cars" from rags and forums that get people to jump on say a 662hp Shelby laughing as they just secured a blue chip. Maybe we have a blue chip ir maybe we dont. Maybe we have a blue chip....but no one cares.

Either way, evolution marches on and I do and always have loved watching progress in anything being made. I will actually welcome the day when not every 20 something in a hellcat vette et al, challenges me at every stop light. Those of us fortunate to have what we have know what we have and it is not just about raw spec performance. No other 75-120k car (used pricing) even comes close at this time to tempt me to switch. The Viper is that damn hot. From 92 to present. Cant say that for 99% of vehicles made.

[slowhatch]

This thread, and every other thread comparing Viper to other "competitors"...

https://media.giphy.com/media/fDO2Nk0ImzvvW/giphy.gif

[Scott_in_fl]

The Arrow H/C seems like it may have been engineered by the OEM for the Gen V but for some reason could not make it into production. It's odd that Dick Winkles leaves FCA to join Arrow, and then this H/C package with Arrow PCM (which, given how difficult it is to crack OEM PCM's these days, likely only happens with assistance from the OEM) appears relatively shortly thereafter. Remember, at some point the decision is made to pull the plug on Viper (maybe 2014/2015). But, up until that point, some development was likely continuing on the car (i.e. Gen V update or Gen VI). It makes sense if that development (i.e. engine development) was transferred over to Arrow for an aftermarket retrofit kit vs. throwing that development away (and it may also coincide with right about when Dick left FCA). It's a little bit of a conspiracy theory, but the timeline and logic make sense.

That said, the ZR1 will sell like hotcakes and hold value if it can easily be tuned to 850rwhp or 1000 at the crank. It will basically be destroying everything out there in a straight line. You won't be able to buy one anywhere.

[13COBRA]

Only one motor though.....never a waterdowned version. That's the key difference and always separated the Viper from Vettes and Mustangs.

I agree. I was just talking about from an aesthetic viewpoint.

I like what GM is doing with the ZR1. It's a good time to be a muscle car fan. Unfortunately Chrysler won't come out with a direct competitor for it again**.



**Unless they follow tradition and have 10MY's after the original "Final Editions" lol

[slowhatch]

The Arrow H/C seems like it may have been engineered by the OEM for the Gen V but for some reason could not make it into production. It's odd that Dick Winkles leaves FCA to join Arrow, and then this H/C package with Arrow PCM (which, given how difficult it is to crack OEM PCM's these days, likely only happens with assistance from the OEM) appears relatively shortly thereafter. Remember, at some point the decision is made to pull the plug on Viper (maybe 2014/2015). But, up until that point, some development was likely continuing on the car (i.e. Gen V update or Gen VI). It makes sense if that development (i.e. engine development) was transferred over to Arrow for an aftermarket retrofit kit vs. throwing that development away (and it may also coincide with right about when Dick left FCA). It's a little bit of a conspiracy theory, but the timeline and logic make sense.

That said, the ZR1 will sell like hotcakes and hold value if it can easily be tuned to 850rwhp or 1000 at the crank. It will basically be destroying everything out there in a straight line. You won't be able to buy one anywhere.

This is a fairytale.

Viper exchange paid money for accelerated development of the heads/cam package, in fact dick had the heads/cam kit on a car for almost a year and half before anyone ever even breathed a word of it to anyone. The oem would never dump a VVT emissions passing design for a fixed camshaft.

[BlueAdder]

I do like the car. The wing is somewhat ugly and I'm not sure about the 'hood'...
Other than those couple of things, the ZR1 looks great and I agree with Todd, the more competition we get at the track, the better.

I met some dude this year at Laguna and he drives a GT3 (he's got a Cup car wing on that thing too) and we're about the same skill level. We were together for one session at my last track day and it was a lot of fun to duke it out with him. Plus, it allowed me to see where he was faster on the track and where I was faster. If I can go as fast as he does in a few corners, I'll shave some 2s-3s off my current lap times.
I would love to do that sort of thing with people driving different cars.

Since the Viper is no more, Chevy could have just said: "Well, F**k it!" but they didn't, and they should get props for pushing the envelope even further.

[Geronimo]

I'm with you Snorman and darbgnik.

These are in deed exciting times for performance automobile enthusiasts.I agree. At least for now.

[Geronimo]

I do like the car. The wing is somewhat ugly and I'm not sure about the 'hood'...


I have to laugh, I hate wings. This one is very subtle and I could live with it.

[elanderholm]

I agree. At least for now.

Hahah. I’ve heard this same thing for years now. I guess if you say it long enough you may be right...some day. So how much longer will we have ‘affordable’ high powered cars? People have been predicting the end of High hp cars for decades now...
460hp mustang is what <$40k and every gt mustang does 0-60 under 4 secs. So when will all these fast cars not be avail?

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^ Have you seen the Uber/Volvo autonomous driving facility? The day when fast cars are not available will be here faster than you think.

I say 3-5 more years (2023) before cars will not be able to exceed speed limits (my '17 Escalade already knows the posted limit of every road I drive on).

[IHOP]

^^^ Have you seen the Uber/Volvo autonomous driving facility? The day when fast cars are not available will be here faster than you think.

I say 3-5 more years (2023) before cars will not be able to exceed speed limits (my '17 Escalade already knows the posted limit of every road I drive on).

Hopefully the aftermarket world will bail us out. Like lifting the speed limiters on BMW and Mercedes cars with tunes. But I know the days are coming where we have self driving cars everywhere and the world will be like Sci-Fi movies where we just get in and get shuttled to our destination.

[EZ 2B Green]

^^^ Have you seen the Uber/Volvo autonomous driving facility? The day when fast cars are not available will be here faster than you think.

I say 3-5 more years (2023) before cars will not be able to exceed speed limits (my '17 Escalade already knows the posted limit of every road I drive on).

...so does your Viper.

[uberpube]

Hopefully the aftermarket world will bail us out. Like lifting the speed limiters on BMW and Mercedes cars with tunes. But I know the days are coming where we have self driving cars everywhere and the world will be like Sci-Fi movies where we just get in and get shuttled to our destination.

The only issue with that, is that every government is addicted to traffic fine revenues, and autonomous cars are going to put a huge dent in that revenue stream... I think the governments will only allow a certain amount of autonomy so they still have some human faults to tax...

[Bruce H.]

There's no free lunch when it comes to making and managing big power in a car used on road courses. Tadge illustrated that point rather well when he half-assed the cooling of 650hp in the '15-16 Z06 to the point some of the faster track rats would overheat within 3 or 4 laps. They set a low bar for their stress testing of just 86F with an average skill level driver for their "most track capable Corvette ever". Epic fail.

Those of us who track our Vipers appreciate the commitment Ralph's team made to making and managing our 640 hp, but likely also realize that additional cooling is required to push much beyond that on the road course. SRT could have half-assed more power into the car as well but many of us are glad they didn't. A very reliable source told my that to do it right would have cost them in excess of 20 million for an engine that passed federal testing which just wasn't feasible. But the aftermarket can offer what they like and the vehicle manufacturer has no warranty exposure (ie offering engine controller through Arrow). That controller makes more power and puts more demand on the stock cooling system.

The capacity of a cooling system is dependent on the amount of air flow through it. The frontal area and air ducting on both the Viper and Z06 is a limiting factor to the amount of power that can be managed well. You can see how dramatically Chevy has had to increase both for the ZR1. Maybe it will be enough this time around, maybe not...only time will tell as more demanding track rats explore the limits. But I'm not sure how well accepted that sort of a gaping front end would have been on a Gen V!!!

Bruce

[Scott_in_fl]

^^^^ Excellent post.

[IHOP]

There's no free lunch when it comes to making and managing big power in a car used on road courses. Tadge illustrated that point rather well when he half-assed the cooling of 650hp in the '15-16 Z06 to the point some of the faster track rats would overheat within 3 or 4 laps. They set a low bar for their stress testing of just 86F with an average skill level driver for their "most track capable Corvette ever". Epic fail.

Those of us who track our Vipers appreciate the commitment Ralph's team made to making and managing our 640 hp, but likely also realize that additional cooling is required to push much beyond that on the road course. SRT could have half-assed more power into the car as well but many of us are glad they didn't. A very reliable source told my that to do it right would have cost them in excess of 20 million for an engine that passed federal testing which just wasn't feasible. But the aftermarket can offer what they like and the vehicle manufacturer has no warranty exposure (ie offering engine controller through Arrow). That controller makes more power and puts more demand on the stock cooling system.

The capacity of a cooling system is dependent on the amount of air flow through it. The frontal area and air ducting on both the Viper and Z06 is a limiting factor to the amount of power that can be managed well. You can see how dramatically Chevy has had to increase both for the ZR1. Maybe it will be enough this time around, maybe not...only time will tell as more demanding track rats explore the limits. But I'm not sure how well accepted that sort of a gaping front end would have been on a Gen V!!!

Bruce

Very good points, thankfully Dodge built a GREAT car and it seems at home at the track.

[IHOP]

The only issue with that, is that every government is addicted to traffic fine revenues, and autonomous cars are going to put a huge dent in that revenue stream... I think the governments will only allow a certain amount of autonomy so they still have some human faults to tax...

Haha, that's actually a very good point! You can ticket a driverless car that only goes the speed limit!

[ek1]

What, powersliding around like a dipshit? I can't stand Chris Harris

What's wrong with powersliding? I feel like a 5-year old when I do it.

[ek1]

It seems like the MFG's have settled on about 1,000 lbs. of downforce as the optimal amount for current gen sports cars. It apparently gives enough traction for current tire technology to utilize, but allows significant top speeds.

Although 210 mph is not reached anywhere but maybe the 'Ring on that one long straight, it is an important marketing point that car MFG's like to bandy about.

But, what this also tells us that we likely will not see another 1,700 lb. downforce car anytime soon (unless there is a bunch of active aero, and even then, those cars still do not make much more than 1,100 lbs (see Mac P1)). The 177mph top speed that comes with that is just not sexy enough to entice the mainstream buyer so that an MFG can sell thousands of cars.

I am pretty sure that ACR's 1,700 Lbs of downforce is only achieved when the wing is at the max attack angle. If the wing is in the flattest position, the downforce will probably be around 1,100 Lbs as well.

[ek1]

Not to worry. All the ZR1 parts will be orderable so there will be lots of base Vette clones running around.

Based on the magazine articles, the bigger version of the ZR1 wing attaches to the body of the car through the rear bumper or fascia, so it won't be a simple bolt-on.

[ek1]

What I find really important is that it looks like the ZR1 will go 150 MPH in 4th with a 26.8" tall tire on it and will probably have a .82 5th like the Z06. That's going to make the thing incredibly formidable on a US road course.

When you have to use 5th gear it will still pull ok while my ACR-E is struggling to accelerate at all. In 5th the 3.42 /.82 5th combo will just naturally pull harder than the 3.55 / .77 in my ACR-E and add on top of that the thing has 115 more HP. ZR1 is going to be extremely quick.

I bet, if the thing holds together and doesn't go into limp mode, it's damn near as quick as a GT1 / TA1 car and just a couple seconds slower than the GTLM cars at most tracks. That's insane to me.

I bought my Wife a Grand Sport and am shocked at how composed the chassis is. Honestly at most track events you don't even need to take the ACR-E out of the trailer. The Grand Sport is fast enough to play and have fun with lot's of other cars. The Viper is for lap time hunting. This new ZR1 will be even quicker than the ACR-E.

What the claimed top speed of a car is has lost any significance for me. This ACR-E has me spoiled and has shown me so clearly that high claimed top speeds couldn't make any less of a difference. It means to me that a car accelerates more slowly than it could if it were geared properly for the road courses where I use the car.

Agreed, 5th gear is useless on a road course in an ACR. Even with my wing at the flattest setting, my car would accelerate at about 1 mph per second after it hits 120mph or so on the Pocono oval. I did 168mph and 164 mph in my other car there last year and those were GT cars that weigh 5,000 Lbs. The most I saw in an ACR (with wing in the flattest position) is 148mph or so.

[13COBRA]

Multi-quote is your friend.

[SharpMan]

Agreed, 5th gear is useless on a road course in an ACR. Even with my wing at the flattest setting, my car would accelerate at about 1 mph per second after it hits 120mph or so on the Pocono oval. I did 168mph and 164 mph in my other car there last year and those were GT cars that weigh 5,00 Lbs.

Vehicle weight won't affect top speed.

[ek1]

Vehicle weight won't affect top speed.

Correct, but it will affect how fast the vehicle gets to that speed. More mass=slower acceleration. To clarify, Pocono Raceway is not actually an oval, its more of a triangle, so you do have to lift and/or brake in turns and then accelerate on corner exit.

[Policy Limits]

Based on the magazine articles, the bigger version of the ZR1 wing attaches to the body of the car through the rear bumper or fascia, so it won't be a simple bolt-on.

How about front fascia/splitter? Side skirts?

[Coloviper]

There's no free lunch when it comes to making and managing big power in a car used on road courses. Tadge illustrated that point rather well when he half-assed the cooling of 650hp in the '15-16 Z06 to the point some of the faster track rats would overheat within 3 or 4 laps. They set a low bar for their stress testing of just 86F with an average skill level driver for their "most track capable Corvette ever". Epic fail.

Those of us who track our Vipers appreciate the commitment Ralph's team made to making and managing our 640 hp, but likely also realize that additional cooling is required to push much beyond that on the road course. SRT could have half-assed more power into the car as well but many of us are glad they didn't. A very reliable source told my that to do it right would have cost them in excess of 20 million for an engine that passed federal testing which just wasn't feasible. But the aftermarket can offer what they like and the vehicle manufacturer has no warranty exposure (ie offering engine controller through Arrow). That controller makes more power and puts more demand on the stock cooling system.

The capacity of a cooling system is dependent on the amount of air flow through it. The frontal area and air ducting on both the Viper and Z06 is a limiting factor to the amount of power that can be managed well. You can see how dramatically Chevy has had to increase both for the ZR1. Maybe it will be enough this time around, maybe not...only time will tell as more demanding track rats explore the limits. But I'm not sure how well accepted that sort of a gaping front end would have been on a Gen V!!!

Bruce

Considering SRT barely and I mean barely, got the GEN V version through emissions, there was no way it was going to get more out of it without major changes and dollars. Car was never slated for a return so the pinched and scraped to get it into production. Should be happy we got what we got. More HP would have been awesome but at the expense of reliability. The new GEN V did not sacrifice reliability...............wait, ahhhhhhhhhh!

[ForTehNguyen]

C7Z had to be supercharged because they couldnt meet emissions with a high revving NA V8 (what they wanted to do originally)

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/12/corvette-engineer-tadge-juchter-tells-why-the-2015-z06-is-supercharged-video/

[SharpMan]

Correct, but it will affect how fast the vehicle gets to that speed. More mass=slower acceleration. To clarify, Pocono Raceway is not actually an oval, its more of a triangle, so you do have to lift and/or brake in turns and then accelerate on corner exit.

I see.

[Geronimo]

Hahah. I’ve heard this same thing for years now. I guess if you say it long enough you may be right...some day. So how much longer will we have ‘affordable’ high powered cars? People have been predicting the end of High hp cars for decades now...
460hp mustang is what <$40k and every gt mustang does 0-60 under 4 secs. So when will all these fast cars not be avail?You must be young. Mid 70's through Mid 80's looked pretty bleak. If you wanted power you had to make your own.

[elanderholm]

You must be young. Mid 70's through Mid 80's looked pretty bleak. If you wanted power you had to make your own.

I’m not that young and that was 35-45 yrs ago!! Again, I’m not saying it won’t happen, but false prophets have been warning of the impending power collapse for decades now. At some point, when everyone is wrong...constantly, it just makes me laugh. So it looks like between 2020-2022/23 the ride will be over....I’m not buying it. The world is a totally different place now. The tech has been unleashed to have power and be clean, people will demand it.

[Bruce H.]

Should be happy we got what we got. More HP would have been awesome but at the expense of reliability. The new GEN V did not sacrifice reliability.

I'm not just happy but truly ecstatic about getting great reliability and durability when stressed to the max on track. I don't know of any other exotic that I'd be more confident to drive across the country in, do a track day, and then take the long way back home. Did just that to NVE2 and doing it again for NVE3!

Bruce

[lmcgrew79]

Pretty sure this car will be faster than the ACR at most tracks with equal drivers. It has over 100 extra hp! I'm pretty selective about what track events I take the Viper to because you just simply run over most people. I'm sure the car will look pretty good in person but it is very angular and i don't think it will age very well. Seems GM has been on that angular kick for a few years now. I've been playing with a 2017 ZL1 Camaro bone stock, great car, and is as fast as most cars on track and it keeps you a bit more in the mix, which I think is just as fun. Ive been fighting cooling issues with my ACR and my ZL1 with 11 or 13 coolers what ever it is, so will be interesting to see how well the ZR1 will actually cools when pushed hard. The ACR is 2 years old and without some serious hp mods there is no way it will keep up. Not sure it even matters though as the Viper is IMO a much better looking car and plenty fast enough.

[serpent]

^ Will swapping to a bigger radiator alleviate the heat issue? What about additional oil coolers?

[IHOP]

I'm not just happy but truly ecstatic about getting great reliability and durability when stressed to the max on track. I don't know of any other exotic that I'd be more confident to drive across the country in, do a track day, and then take the long way back home. Did just that to NVE2 and doing it again for NVE3!

Bruce

Well said!

[slitherv10]

I'm not just happy but truly ecstatic about getting great reliability and durability when stressed to the max on track. I don't know of any other exotic that I'd be more confident to drive across the country in, do a track day, and then take the long way back home. Did just that to NVE2 and doing it again for NVE3!

Bruce

Bruce your one of the few that got lucky with a good car. ONe reason being you actually drive the car as it was meant to be. Good for you my friend. As you know from so many posts here i the last few years, many have had nightmares with these cars, from rear window blow ups to various engine problems to interior problems (window regulators, sound system etc) way too many things to list to be honest. There are many here who are afraid to take their car out for a Saturday night in case they get stuck. These are cars that are driven a third of what you have done. Scary to think if they go further...or is that a good thing? Who knows. I'm in no way saying these cars are lemons but I would certainly be tardent to say they are extremely reliable. Gen 1,2,3 and 4's I would say are almost bullet proof but Gen 5 , I wouldn't bet my last dollar.
Don't get me wrong, I would not hesitate to buy a Gen 5 if my interests fell towards getting one more car but the truth be told.
As for COLOvipers comment on extra HP and no reliability, time will tell how the Challenger/Charger Hellcats and Demons hold up. So far so good. MOre HP would have been an answer to more answers then questions in my opinion.

Just my .02cents....CDN or 2.31 cents US

[lmcgrew79]

^ Will swapping to a bigger radiator alleviate the heat issue? What about additional oil coolers?

I have no idea, what ive done so far is simple things, moved the tow hook to another location, underdrive pulley to slow the pump some, and making sure to keep the radiator clean and changed to a 60/40 water/coolant. Just put on a higher pressure radiator cap as well but havent tryed it yet.

[stradman]

I have no idea, what ive done so far is simple things, moved the tow hook to another location, underdrive pulley to slow the pump some, and making sure to keep the radiator clean and changed to a 60/40 water/coolant. Just put on a higher pressure radiator cap as well but havent tryed it yet.

Hi Luke, is your engine stock or any other mods?

[q8blueviper]

Some pics @ Dubai motor show
29700
29701
29703

[lmcgrew79]

Hi Luke, is your engine stock or any other mods?

It has the arrow pcm, the main reason it even has that is it keep going limp mode on track for multiple misfire.

[Policy Limits]

Any other pics or renders of the Zee-Are-Won in different colors? I like white. Pic for attn...

[ViperJon]

Nice photo. First time using a camera phone?

[stradman]

Bruce your one of the few that got lucky with a good car. ONe reason being you actually drive the car as it was meant to be. Good for you my friend. As you know from so many posts here i the last few years, many have had nightmares with these cars, from rear window blow ups to various engine problems to interior problems (window regulators, sound system etc) way too many things to list to be honest. There are many here who are afraid to take their car out for a Saturday night in case they get stuck. These are cars that are driven a third of what you have done. Scary to think if they go further...or is that a good thing? Who knows. I'm in no way saying these cars are lemons but I would certainly be tardent to say they are extremely reliable. Gen 1,2,3 and 4's I would say are almost bullet proof but Gen 5 , I wouldn't bet my last dollar.
Don't get me wrong, I would not hesitate to buy a Gen 5 if my interests fell towards getting one more car but the truth be told.
As for COLOvipers comment on extra HP and no reliability, time will tell how the Challenger/Charger Hellcats and Demons hold up. So far so good. MOre HP would have been an answer to more answers then questions in my opinion.

Just my .02cents....CDN or 2.31 cents US

Well I have to agree and side with Bruce's on this one. I have done nearly 8k miles on my car so far but I would say half of those are track miles and touch wood apart from a very early issue I had with melted O2 sensor wires (which was my fault) the car has been very solid and bullit proof. I'm sure most would agree that 4000 track miles probably at the very least equates to about 20k or 30k miles of normal driving. Sure I do need to keep an eye on my oil levels and certainly top up much more than I read others are doing on this forum but that's it. Regular oil analysis shows no concerns either. Have no hesitation driving through 3 countrys and then doing a weekend of hard track driving and then drive back. What more can I ask for?

[1.8t]

Nice photo. First time using a camera phone?

:smilielol:

[Dman]

Nice photo. First time using a camera phone?

With those cars and that garage, you'd think he could afford a better smartphone, at least go to Best Buy and not 7/11 for a burner.

Yep, we're a cheeky crowd here in the gen5 forum. lol

[ForTehNguyen]

potato phone or 144p webcam?

[IHOP]

With those cars and that garage, you'd think he could afford a better smartphone, at least go to Best Buy and not 7/11 for a burner.

Yep, we're a cheeky crowd here in the gen5 forum. lol

Hahhaahaha! At least he has cool cars who cares that he still has a flip phone!

[Scott_in_fl]

Yeah, hard to believe that photo was taken in 2017.

[Snakebit10]

LOL...Reminds me of someone on the old forum or the Alley that took a pic that had his hairy arms and stubby fingers in it. The whole thread was about his hands after that haha.

Disclaimer: Post pics at your own risk.:)

[camarochevy1970]

Yeah, hard to believe that photo was taken in 2017.

Camera on the Jitter Bug smart phone isn't that good

[ViperJon]

If I had a dollar for every pixel in the photo I'd have a dollar.

[Policy Limits]

A Polaroid camera is all I could afford after that $ix Figure ACR. 8-p

[Dman]

If I had a dollar for every pixel in the photo I'd have a dollar.

OK, you win, that's too funny right there.

Any way, about that ZR1, now that it's got my interest, I'm hitting the corvette forum. One thing I noticed, they seem to post pics taken with better smartphones than here. Hmm.

[darbgnik]

Bruce your one of the few that got lucky with a good car. ONe reason being you actually drive the car as it was meant to be. Good for you my friend. As you know from so many posts here i the last few years, many have had nightmares with these cars, from rear window blow ups to various engine problems to interior problems (window regulators, sound system etc) way too many things to list to be honest. There are many here who are afraid to take their car out for a Saturday night in case they get stuck. These are cars that are driven a third of what you have done. Scary to think if they go further...or is that a good thing? Who knows. I'm in no way saying these cars are lemons but I would certainly be tardent to say they are extremely reliable. Gen 1,2,3 and 4's I would say are almost bullet proof but Gen 5 , I wouldn't bet my last dollar.
Don't get me wrong, I would not hesitate to buy a Gen 5 if my interests fell towards getting one more car but the truth be told.
As for COLOvipers comment on extra HP and no reliability, time will tell how the Challenger/Charger Hellcats and Demons hold up. So far so good. MOre HP would have been an answer to more answers then questions in my opinion.

Just my .02cents....CDN or 2.31 cents US

Ok, just so I'm on the right page here, you're implying owners should be afraid to drive their cars because of, let's see, a rear hatch glass failure that was relegated to the first batch of production cars, and somehow reappeared in a handful of ACR's, shit window regulators that have plagued every model(except Gen 1 with no windows), and sound system issues? Neither of those will leave you stuck anywhere. Any issue that can be jerry rigged with duct tape or pulling a fuse isn't much of an issue for anyone at a 10 year old boyscout level of resourcefulness. And if you're really brave, you can try the rear defroster from the comfort of your own garage......
The engine problems are worth mentioning, but even though the chances are higher with this model, all cars can fail. The Cummins in my Ram is widely regarded as impossibly reliable, but they still have failures. I've said it before, but if you're the type of person that is afraid that every bad thing you read will happen to them, maybe buy a Camry? My Viper mileage is pretty evenly split between long highway slogs to the track, and the track. It's been rock solid. But, the day it's not, I'm a cell phone call and a credit card away from it being some one else's problem. No fear. Lol.

But, back on topic, the other thing to remember is that for a same specific output to the wheels, the supercharged engine is making more horsepower, but the supercharger is eating a portion of it. Imagine needing 750 hp worth of cooling on a 650 hp engine. This still doesn't take into account the additional heat the supercharger itself makes and needs to be shed..........

Lotsa cooling needed in the new ZR1, but it looks like they have it.

Back on topic though

[slowhatch]

Ok, just so I'm on the right page here, you're implying owners should be afraid to drive their cars because of, let's see, a rear hatch glass failure that was relegated to the first batch of production cars, and somehow reappeared in a handful of ACR's, shit window regulators that have plagued every model(except Gen 1 with no windows), and sound system issues? Neither of those will leave you stuck anywhere. Any issue that can be jerry rigged with duct tape or pulling a fuse isn't much of an issue for anyone at a 10 year old boyscout level of resourcefulness. And if you're really brave, you can try the rear defroster from the comfort of your own garage......
The engine problems are worth mentioning, but even though the chances are higher with this model, all cars can fail. The Cummins in my Ram is widely regarded as impossibly reliable, but they still have failures. I've said it before, but if you're the type of person that is afraid that every bad thing you read will happen to them, maybe buy a Camry? My Viper mileage is pretty evenly split between long highway slogs to the track, and the track. It's been rock solid. But, the day it's not, I'm a cell phone call and a credit card away from it being some one else's problem. No fear. Lol.

But, back on topic, the other thing to remember is that for a same specific output to the wheels, the supercharged engine is making more horsepower, but the supercharger is eating a portion of it. Imagine needing 750 hp worth of cooling on a 650 hp engine. This still doesn't take into account the additional heat the supercharger itself makes and needs to be shed..........

Lotsa cooling needed in the new ZR1, but it looks like they have it.

Back on topic though

https://i.imgur.com/8DfRkJo.gif

[ViperTony]

If I had a dollar for every pixel in the photo I'd have a dollar.

That was taken using a Dealer Edition camera. Very special.

[ViperTony]

I'm not just happy but truly ecstatic about getting great reliability and durability when stressed to the max on track. I don't know of any other exotic that I'd be more confident to drive across the country in, do a track day, and then take the long way back home. Did just that to NVE2 and doing it again for NVE3!

Bruce

Amen.

[Scott_in_fl]

That was taken using a Dealer Edition camera. Very special.

LOL, that was good!

[Unlimtd]

COST ASIDE. Question to those who might know. Do you think the ZR1 drivetrain would fit in a Viper including the eight speed tranny or, in the alternative, could you remove the ZR1 body and put a Gen V TA or ACR variant body on it? This would solve the aesthetic issue. Perhaps one could also change the exhaust to exit out each side. That would not be difficult. For those who say that you can get about the same level of power through after market mods with a stage two mod, it is not quite the same. The stage two mod requires headers to fully realize the power; the power is distributed differently over the power curve; and the car is much, much louder. An eight speed auto Viper with the ZR1 level of durable and reliable power would be incredible. I know. This is a tad disloyal to the Viper but such a Viper would be interesting.

[Policy Limits]

That was taken using a Dealer Edition camera. Very special.

The camera is "contrived" as special. Get it right. :)

[Policy Limits]

Btw, on the corvette forum there's a link to MacMulkin in NH for ZR1 information with an email capability. I sent an inquiry to it last night and already have a reply email regarding ZR1 ordering/information. My C6 came from them.

[stradman]

It has the arrow pcm, the main reason it even has that is it keep going limp mode on track for multiple misfire.
Sorry, so it misfires if it doesn't have the Arrow pcm or as a result of the Arrow PCM?

[ViperTony]

The camera is "contrived" as special. Get it right. :)

LOL. Hey, if we can't have fun once in a while this site would get boring.

[Arizona Vipers]

Well I have to agree and side with Bruce's on this one. I have done nearly 8k miles on my car so far but I would say half of those are track miles and touch wood apart from a very early issue I had with melted O2 sensor wires (which was my fault) the car has been very solid and bullit proof. I'm sure most would agree that 4000 track miles probably at the very least equates to about 20k or 30k miles of normal driving. Sure I do need to keep an eye on my oil levels and certainly top up much more than I read others are doing on this forum but that's it. Regular oil analysis shows no concerns either. Have no hesitation driving through 3 countrys and then doing a weekend of hard track driving and then drive back. What more can I ask for?

I've got 3500 miles on my ACR, all track miles except for break in. I have never had one issue and I beat that car to death here in the Arizona heat. I never even wrapped any part of the harness. If you leave these cars stock and keep your oil level at the top or just past the top of "safe" you will never have any motor issues.

[Voice of Reason]

COST ASIDE. Question to those who might know. Do you think the ZR1 drivetrain would fit in a Viper including the eight speed tranny or, in the alternative, could you remove the ZR1 body and put a Gen V TA or ACR variant body on it? This would solve the aesthetic issue. Perhaps one could also change the exhaust to exit out each side. That would not be difficult. For those who say that you can get about the same level of power through after market mods with a stage two mod, it is not quite the same. The stage two mod requires headers to fully realize the power; the power is distributed differently over the power curve; and the car is much, much louder. An eight speed auto Viper with the ZR1 level of durable and reliable power would be incredible. I know. This is a tad disloyal to the Viper but such a Viper would be interesting.

https://media.giphy.com/media/d10dMmzqCYqQ0/giphy.gif

[IHOP]

I've got 3500 miles on my ACR, all track miles except for break in. I have never had one issue and I beat that car to death here in the Arizona heat. I never even wrapped any part of the harness. If you leave these cars stock and keep your oil level at the top or just past the top of "safe" you will never have any motor issues.

I can attest to this, he has inspired me to push my car and it has been awesome! This car is a beast but if my window regulator fails I hope it's in the winter but I'm not scared. To track the car in 100 degree weather and have it just want more is crazy, I just wish tires were just cheaper damnit!

[IHOP]

Ok, just so I'm on the right page here, you're implying owners should be afraid to drive their cars because of, let's see, a rear hatch glass failure that was relegated to the first batch of production cars, and somehow reappeared in a handful of ACR's, shit window regulators that have plagued every model(except Gen 1 with no windows), and sound system issues? Neither of those will leave you stuck anywhere. Any issue that can be jerry rigged with duct tape or pulling a fuse isn't much of an issue for anyone at a 10 year old boyscout level of resourcefulness. And if you're really brave, you can try the rear defroster from the comfort of your own garage......
The engine problems are worth mentioning, but even though the chances are higher with this model, all cars can fail. The Cummins in my Ram is widely regarded as impossibly reliable, but they still have failures. I've said it before, but if you're the type of person that is afraid that every bad thing you read will happen to them, maybe buy a Camry? My Viper mileage is pretty evenly split between long highway slogs to the track, and the track. It's been rock solid. But, the day it's not, I'm a cell phone call and a credit card away from it being some one else's problem. No fear. Lol.

But, back on topic, the other thing to remember is that for a same specific output to the wheels, the supercharged engine is making more horsepower, but the supercharger is eating a portion of it. Imagine needing 750 hp worth of cooling on a 650 hp engine. This still doesn't take into account the additional heat the supercharger itself makes and needs to be shed..........

Lotsa cooling needed in the new ZR1, but it looks like they have it.

Back on topic though

Well said!

[Bruce H.]

It's to be expected that owners who are experiencing issues with their cars are going to discuss them on the forum. They do that in their own threads, and discuss it in other's related threads also. Unfortunately there are some that seem to have made it their personal mission to disparage the car in almost all of their posts and in every thread, whether related or not. Then other concerned owners start referring to the issue that others are having...and a general negative and unwarranted impression about reliability slowly starts to form. The owner who posted hundreds of times about his shattered rear glass must have led some to think there are hundreds of affected cars. Then we hear about owners that are afraid to use their rear glass defrosters. Same with fear of engine failures that really haven't been a production issue since early MY14. It's easy for some to perceive an impression of poor reliability when following the forum but that's not representative of most owner's experiences.

The problem is the vast majority of owners who aren't having issues just never seem to think to start a thread to say they aren't having issues :( Glad to hear from a few of the many that are driving, tracking and thoroughly loving theirs!

Bruce

[ek1]

Well I have to agree and side with Bruce's on this one. I have done nearly 8k miles on my car so far but I would say half of those are track miles and touch wood apart from a very early issue I had with melted O2 sensor wires (which was my fault) the car has been very solid and bullit proof. I'm sure most would agree that 4000 track miles probably at the very least equates to about 20k or 30k miles of normal driving. Sure I do need to keep an eye on my oil levels and certainly top up much more than I read others are doing on this forum but that's it. Regular oil analysis shows no concerns either. Have no hesitation driving through 3 countrys and then doing a weekend of hard track driving and then drive back. What more can I ask for?

Just over 8,000 miles on mine. Drove it from Woodhouse home through Detroit, Chicago and Niagara Falls (1,500 miles). Zero issues. Also did multiple VOA cruises and drives, recently a 1,000+ mile trip to the VOA Lobster Roll event. Zero issues. Rest are miles driving to/from/on the track, also zero issues. I had minor things happen, there was a rear diff seal leak (someone at the factory damaged it during assembly) and my rear left wheel liner has a hole in it from rubbing. My diff whines a little when I lift. Rusted water dripping out of the hood after driving in the rain. I won't use my rear defroster until I take the car to the dealer and they do the recall (tape). This is by far MUCH less problems than I had with any other new car I ever had.

[darbgnik]

It's to be expected that owners who are experiencing issues with their cars are going to discuss them on the forum. They do that in their own threads, and discuss it in other's related threads also. Unfortunately there are some that seem to have made it their personal mission to disparage the car in almost all of their posts and in every thread, whether related or not. Then other concerned owners start referring to the issue that others are having...and a general negative and unwarranted impression about reliability slowly starts to form. The owner who posted hundreds of times about his shattered rear glass must have led some to think there are hundreds of affected cars. Then we hear about owners that are afraid to use their rear glass defrosters. Same with fear of engine failures that really haven't been a production issue since early MY14. It's easy for some to perceive an impression of poor reliability when following the forum but that's not representative of most owner's experiences.

The problem is the vast majority of owners who aren't having issues just never seem to think to start a thread to say they aren't having issues :( Glad to hear from a few of the many that are driving, tracking and thoroughly loving theirs!

Bruce
I have the same take as you Bruce. Chicken Little ran rampant on these forums last year. It was almost painful to log in and read about a bunch of guys, who've never experienced a problem themselves, looking for which fuse to pull to disable the defroster "just in case". I mean, after reading about those R28 engine failures, you may as well never drive the car "just in case". Living in fear is no way to live. Be prepared? Sure. But live in fear? Best just sell the toy and stick to nice reliable cars like Camrys....... or at least install some grip tape in the shower. :smilielol:

[TheMadMachinist]

Bruce your one of the few that got lucky with a good car. ONe reason being you actually drive the car as it was meant to be. Good for you my friend. As you know from so many posts here i the last few years, many have had nightmares with these cars, from rear window blow ups to various engine problems to interior problems (window regulators, sound system etc) way too many things to list to be honest. There are many here who are afraid to take their car out for a Saturday night in case they get stuck. These are cars that are driven a third of what you have done. Scary to think if they go further...or is that a good thing? Who knows. I'm in no way saying these cars are lemons but I would certainly be tardent to say they are extremely reliable. Gen 1,2,3 and 4's I would say are almost bullet proof but Gen 5 , I wouldn't bet my last dollar.
Don't get me wrong, I would not hesitate to buy a Gen 5 if my interests fell towards getting one more car but the truth be told.
As for COLOvipers comment on extra HP and no reliability, time will tell how the Challenger/Charger Hellcats and Demons hold up. So far so good. MOre HP would have been an answer to more answers then questions in my opinion.

Just my .02cents....CDN or 2.31 cents US

So you don't even own a GEN 5.

It's guys like this that make this forum so entertaining.

[Voice of Reason]

And then while we slept Tesla said “750 Hp? That’s cute, hold my beer.”

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/amp13792609/tesla-roadster-photos-info/

[swexlin]

I've got 3500 miles on my ACR, all track miles except for break in. I have never had one issue and I beat that car to death here in the Arizona heat. I never even wrapped any part of the harness. If you leave these cars stock and keep your oil level at the top or just past the top of "safe" you will never have any motor issues.

Arizona, not trying to be a dick, but your 13 did blow it's original engine, correct? Or am I wrong.

[swexlin]

Bruce your one of the few that got lucky with a good car. ONe reason being you actually drive the car as it was meant to be. Good for you my friend. As you know from so many posts here i the last few years, many have had nightmares with these cars, from rear window blow ups to various engine problems to interior problems (window regulators, sound system etc) way too many things to list to be honest. There are many here who are afraid to take their car out for a Saturday night in case they get stuck. These are cars that are driven a third of what you have done. Scary to think if they go further...or is that a good thing? Who knows. I'm in no way saying these cars are lemons but I would certainly be tardent to say they are extremely reliable. Gen 1,2,3 and 4's I would say are almost bullet proof but Gen 5 , I wouldn't bet my last dollar.
Don't get me wrong, I would not hesitate to buy a Gen 5 if my interests fell towards getting one more car but the truth be told.
As for COLOvipers comment on extra HP and no reliability, time will tell how the Challenger/Charger Hellcats and Demons hold up. So far so good. MOre HP would have been an answer to more answers then questions in my opinion.

Just my .02cents....CDN or 2.31 cents US

This is a good post. OK, my flame suit is on. And yes, I have thought about selling it. But it's paid for, doesn't cost me much, and I wouldn't get anything for it, so it sits in the garage most of the time on a tender. But I don't trust it out of AAA flatbed range.

My Gen 5 has had way more issues than any vehicle I've owned since my 2004 Cummins Ram. My 07 SRT8, my 13 Dart (yes Dart. LOL) and my current Ram were/are all excellent (in fact, the Ram is the best vehicle I have ever owned, period.) In fact it boggles my mind the difference in build quality between the Viper and Ram.

[Bruce H.]

Some owners feel angry and frustrated by a lack of trusted local service and that indirectly affects the perception of reliability as small issues become major problems that get aired on the forum as they seek advice. And it's really hard to satisfy an angry owner by giving him a new engine when he's afraid his car is going to be ruined when it's installed. I wonder how Porsche managed when replacing all the GT3 engines a couple of years back?

I've had a few minor warranty repairs painlessly performed... but the only issue that prevented me from driving it (flashing check engine light) must have been related to bad gas as the car checked out 100%. So does the need for some warranty fixes mean the car is unreliable, or does the fact that they didn't prevent me from driving it make it decently reliable? And should we expect that this low production hand built ultra high performance 100% track capable exotic receive the same reliability rating by J.D. Powers compared to an appliance from Toyota? I think I had very reasonable expectations when I chose to buy one, and like so many others they continue to be exceeded in many ways.

Really hoping ZR1 track rats will experience the same...but fear some won't if Chevy doesn't improve their approach to stress testing.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

I like the car (maybe just the color). I have been considering Z/28 or ZL1 1LE. Corvette seems to have lost its way since the C6 Z06 as the cars got heavier obviously supercharged and the cooling issues. It must have been bad if they didn’t publish a ring time for the Z06. Saying it was the most track capable ever and then having a disclaimer about only being tested at 80 degrees ambient left a bad taste in my mouth. I wouldn’t be first on the list but if it proves to be a robust car I would consider getting one. By that time there may be a mid engine Vette so who knows.

[uberpube]

And then while we slept Tesla said “750 Hp? That’s cute, hold my beer.”

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/amp13792609/tesla-roadster-photos-info/

Musk looking for more people to shake down to keep his house of cards together.... Order one of these and his electric Kenworth and trust to put that big money down while he still can't deliver the model 3 budget car to people... His marketing of dreams is starting to wear really thin...

[ViperJon]

I wonder how Porsche managed when replacing all the GT3 engines a couple of years back?

Porsche mechanics trained on Porsche's and work on them all day long.
Dodge mechanics trained on Sparks and have never seen a Viper.

[Scott_in_fl]

Musk looking for more people to shake down to keep his house of cards together.... Order one of these and his electric Kenworth and trust to put that big money down while he still can't deliver the model 3 budget car to people... His marketing of dreams is starting to wear really thin...

True that it is amazing that Tesla still exists, but this does demonstrate the power of electric energy over gasoline engines. Spinning an electric motor 20,000 - 30,000 rpms is nothing. If they can make it safe enough, it is very reasonably possible that he can develop a car that can accomplish what he is claiming. Electric is the most feasible way that more performance can be obtained from current supercar levels. But, that must come with more autonomous driving aids.

And, regarding ZR1, it's easy to discuss how great it is and how interested we might all be if the car is as good as we hope. But, that's when I haven't driven my car in a week or two.

I brought it to work today and took the long way to the office -- windows down. I'm sorry, but there's nothing like driving the Viper.

Just sitting in it as she warms up to operating temp, appreciating the sound, the feel, the tight cockpit, the car is special. And once under way, people want to talk to you at stop lights, send you business (no joke, picked up a new client on the way), take photos. Drive it briskly, row through the gears, hear the sound right at your door, throw it into a turn, you just want to keep driving and not get out.

My '16 Z06 was awesome, but it never delivered that level of driving enjoyment -- and 100hp more would not change that.

The Corvette is a great daily, but it is nowhere near the experience of the Viper.

[Shooter]

Porsche mechanics trained on Porsche's and work on them all day long.
Dodge mechanics trained on Sparks and have never seen a Viper.

This. Very few dealerships outside the big 3 here were willing to spend the time or money on getting the techs properly trained beyond minivans and Chrysler 300's.