Gen V GTC adding oil and checking oil

[Waterloo]

I have searched the forum for the basics on checking oil and adding oil with no results. I have checked the dipstick but it confuses me because there is not a clear line of oil like my other cars, it goes up on one side but not across it.. I don't change my own oil nor do I want to, I need help with keeping up between oil changes and adding oil. I have read on some post that you need to run it and check within a few minutes, what is the best method.

[Voice of Reason]

My philosophy is to always check the oil level in consistent conditions, regardless of how the manual says to check it. I get my oil changed at my dealer. And I know what the oil level reads in my garage on the next day when I pull the dipstick the first time I look (I note first because subsequent pulls of the stock can smear oil on it). So all measurements for me are based on that level. When (not if) if looks low between changes I add oil to that mark.

The notion of checking oil after the engine is warm is ludicrous to me because getting a solid reading is impossible. But I am 100% certain that checking the oil after it’s sat overnight I can compare THAT against the level I know is ok after the dealer changes it.

[Space Truckin]

^^^this^^^ Waterloo be vigilant in checking oil, I too always check oil cold & overnight, that way most all of the oil has left the heads, oil galleys and rods. I check oil and tire pressures every time before taking her out for a run...JM2C :drive:

[swexlin]

The reason the engineers want you to check it warm is so there still is some in the engine. They want full in the pan, plus in the engine. I check it right after shutdown, within 5 minutes, on my flat garage floor. Like said above, whatever method you choose, do it the same every time, for apples to apples comparison.

[ViperJon]

I check it cold. As mentioned above if you know where the proper level should be and check under the same conditions than any variation will be obvious. Mine is about an 1/8th to 3/16th inch above the full line when cold. When warm it is even or marginally below the full line. Much easier to check it cold as there is a clear definitive line.

[jaxtk]

I check it cold. As mentioned above if you know where the proper level should be and check under the same conditions than any variation will be obvious. Mine is about an 1/8th to 3/16th inch above the full line when cold. When warm it is even or marginally below the full line. Much easier to check it cold as there is a clear definitive line.

You are 100% correct, this is by far the best method.

[Stealth78]

You are 100% correct, this is by far the best method.

I'm not being sarcastic but if this is the best method then why didn't FCA just raise the line 3/16 and inform to check when cold. To agree with others, if you check your oil in the same manner/conditions every time you can establish where your proper benchmark should be. Which I realize that almost contradicts my first sentence, lol.

[swexlin]

I think FCA reason is: full cold is probably full. However, with the oil issue the cars have, having us be full when warm will ensure a very slight overfill, to ensure some margin of safety perhaps. My opinion. They want 11 quarts in the pan, plus what is in the engine and cooler.

[ViperGeorge]

Jeeze this must be the 10th thread on checking oil in a Gen 5. I had previously checked with the engineer that designed the oiling system. Either believe the engineer or not but I think he should know what the correct method is. Here's what he said:

“So like we discussed – the 15MY has the updated dipstick to decrease the likelihood of wiping (has the s-bend in it) – so it should be easier to read on a 15MY and later vs. previous years.

"The method you’ve mentioned (where the vehicle is warmed then sits for 5 minutes before checking the oil) is definitely the best method and you’re right, that is exactly what is in the manual. The reasoning behind it is that the engine will trap oil in galleries, components, etc and as you let the engine sit, that oil eventually drains down to the pan. It is a large engine and a large amount of oil can be left in the engine after shutdown. Thus showing higher on the stick when your car sits for a while. Having the warm oil level at the full mark 5 minutes after turning the car off ensures that there is the correct amount of oil in the car.

To answer your other question – it’s certainly reasonable to see large swings in oil level using those two methods to check the level. I would even recommend checking it within 1 minute of the 5 minute mark after shutting the car off – waiting to 10 minutes would probably show a completely different reading.

Additional Note: It says this in the manual, but be sure to park on level ground – not doing that can change the oil level dramatically as well.”

[dewilmoth]

Jeeze this must be the 10th thread on checking oil in a Gen 5. I had previously checked with the engineer that designed the oiling system. Either believe the engineer or not but I think he should know what the correct method is. Here's what he said:

“So like we discussed – the 15MY has the updated dipstick to decrease the likelihood of wiping (has the s-bend in it) – so it should be easier to read on a 15MY and later vs. previous years.

"The method you’ve mentioned (where the vehicle is warmed then sits for 5 minutes before checking the oil) is definitely the best method and you’re right, that is exactly what is in the manual. The reasoning behind it is that the engine will trap oil in galleries, components, etc and as you let the engine sit, that oil eventually drains down to the pan. It is a large engine and a large amount of oil can be left in the engine after shutdown. Thus showing higher on the stick when your car sits for a while. Having the warm oil level at the full mark 5 minutes after turning the car off ensures that there is the correct amount of oil in the car.

To answer your other question – it’s certainly reasonable to see large swings in oil level using those two methods to check the level. I would even recommend checking it within 1 minute of the 5 minute mark after shutting the car off – waiting to 10 minutes would probably show a completely different reading.

Additional Note: It says this in the manual, but be sure to park on level ground – not doing that can change the oil level dramatically as well.”

Some cars may experience drain back, which I’m guessing is why they wrote the manual the way they did, but my car reads identical whether it’s checked per the manual, or dead cold. My theory is some cars experience drain back from the oil cooler, which can make the reading falsely high when cold, my car however has never experienced this. Just my $.02.

[ViperGeorge]

Some cars may experience drain back, which I’m guessing is why they wrote the manual the way they did, but my car reads identical whether it’s checked per the manual, or dead cold. My theory is some cars experience drain back from the oil cooler, which can make the reading falsely high when cold, my car however has never experienced this. Just my $.02.

On my 2015 TA 2.0 the oil level would vary A LOT from cold to hot. The cold level would be about 1 inch higher on the stick than if checked right after engine shutdown. That is why I reached out to a friend at SRT for a definitive answer on checking the oil.

Also note the oil stick was redesigned sometime in 2014. Later 14s have the newer dipstick while older 14s and 13s have the old design. You can tell the difference by looking at how the yellow ring sits when the stick is fully seated. If the yellow ring (the one that has Engine printed on top) is sitting parallel to the windshield you have the new stick. If it sits at a 45 degree angle to the windshield you have the old stick. By the way when the stick is put in properly you should be able to read Engine on the yellow ring from the front of the car. If it is upside down when viewed from the front you have it installed 180 degree out of place.

[SRT_BluByU]

Some cars may experience drain back, which I’m guessing is why they wrote the manual the way they did, but my car reads identical whether it’s checked per the manual, or dead cold. My theory is some cars experience drain back from the oil cooler, which can make the reading falsely high when cold, my car however has never experienced this. Just my $.02.

same here.. however our cars are both at sea level in north florida. it might be a different story in denver on a cold morning.

[swexlin]

I've asked in other oil threads, but never received a real answer. On the early dipstick (13-14) is the hash area a 1 or 2 quart range from top to bottom?

[dewilmoth]

same here.. however our cars are both at sea level in north florida. it might be a different story in denver on a cold morning.

Great point.

[LmeaViper]

On my 2015 TA 2.0 the oil level would vary A LOT from cold to hot. The cold level would be about 1 inch higher on the stick than if checked right after engine shutdown. That is why I reached out to a friend at SRT for a definitive answer on checking the oil.

Also note the oil stick was redesigned sometime in 2014. Later 14s have the newer dipstick while older 14s and 13s have the old design. You can tell the difference by looking at how the yellow ring sits when the stick is fully seated. If the yellow ring (the one that has Engine printed on top) is sitting parallel to the windshield you have the new stick. If it sits at a 45 degree angle to the windshield you have the old stick. By the way when the stick is put in properly you should be able to read Engine on the yellow ring from the front of the car. If it is upside down when viewed from the front you have it installed 180 degree out of place.

Interesting as my 13 GTS has the newer dipstick you mention above and it was built in either July or Aug 13, as I recall it.
Also I always placed the dipstick with the 'engine' toward the driver...thinking that was correct.

[LmeaViper]

I've asked in other oil threads, but never received a real answer. On the early dipstick (13-14) is the hash area a 1 or 2 quart range from top to bottom?

Can you take a pic of your dipstick as I am curious how different yours is compared to mine.

[theviper]

Can you take a pic of your dipstick.

I don't know if that question violates forum guidelines. :t1567:

[LmeaViper]

I don't know if that question violates forum guidelines. :t1567:

I know it sounds bad...but hey a guys gotta ask

[theviper]

I know it sounds bad...but hey a guys gotta ask

I have a list of jokes, puns, and one liners I could post, but I'm pretty sure some of them would violate the forum guidelines!

[swexlin]

Can you take a pic of your dipstick as I am curious how different yours is compared to mine.

LOL! Next time I check oil, I'll take one!

[ForTehNguyen]

the oil coolers and system have oil capacity (almost 2 quarts worth) and they want you to check the oil warmed up to account for this. I think you put the dipstick back with the hash marks facing the engine so you dont get the smear on the hash mark side

[TomekViperGTS]

Does anyone know the reasoning of not putting a low oil sensor in our cars. With all the known oil starvation issues caused by the initial engine break in.

This would never be an issue if there wasn't such a big disconnect between the dealer and the new buyer where the dealer doesn't tell the new owners they MUST monitor the oil level every 1000 miles or so for the first 6000 miles or so.

Having the low oil sensor would have saved so many motors.

[swexlin]

Does anyone know the reasoning of not putting a low oil sensor in our cars. With all the known oil starvation issues caused by the initial engine break in.

This would never be an issue if there wasn't such a big disconnect between the dealer and the new buyer where the dealer doesn't tell the new owners they MUST monitor the oil level every 1000 miles or so for the first 6000 miles or so.

Having the low oil sensor would have saved so many motors.

Two reasons:
1. cost
2. very flat shallow pan

At least that's always been what I've seen floated for reasons.

[ForTehNguyen]

oil level sensors are a PITA, just look at the german cars. Turns checking oil into a 10 minute affair vs a dipstick

[sadil]

oil level sensors are a PITA, just look at the german cars. Turns checking oil into a 10 minute affair vs a dipstick

Looking beyond the sexy curves, we got a mild update from Gen IV. Oil sensor would require a significant amount of money for development and would be low on the priority list. It's cheaper to replace engines.

[ViperGeorge]

Looking beyond the sexy curves, we got a mild update from Gen IV. Oil sensor would require a significant amount of money for development and would be low on the priority list. It's cheaper to replace engines.

And they didn't even know of the debris issue with engines when the launched the Gen 5. It was debris that caused a lot of the issues for which warranty replacements were done. The debris issue only showed up later after a lot of 13 and 14s were already on the road. The other factor, I believe, that contributed to engine failure is that many Viper owners ran their cars low on oil. That is their own fault.

[ForTehNguyen]

be careful what you wish for, for those who want an electronic oil sensor. Almost a 7 minute video of how to check the oil with an electronic oil level sensor, and its even fast forwarded in parts of the video because it takes up to 3 minutes to detect the oil level after you add some, which you have to add 1qt at a time then wait another 3 minutes every time. Great you just spent 20 minutes checking your oil


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ts-LcGaIHM

[ViperJon]

Don't need a sensor to tell you your exact oil level. You can use the dipstick for that.
But a sensor to tell you that the oil level is dangerously low before you grenade the motor might have saved a lot of engines.

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Not sure if anyone already mentioned to add extra oil in this thread . Oil starvation is a big problem on factory pan vipers all of us know that. We have always added and extra quart of oil to combat the problem of oil starvation especially vipers run at the track. The extra quart is a very old racer trick that many of us have used over the years for engines with known oil starvation problems. Bondurant did the extra quart of oil on all their school vipers to help the starvation problem. The extra oil is not the best solution but its much cheaper then our dry sump system, or our racing oil pan.

[camarochevy1970]

Not sure if anyone already mentioned to add extra oil in this thread . Oil starvation is a big problem on factory pan vipers all of us know that. We have always added and extra quart of oil to combat the problem of oil starvation especially vipers run at the track. The extra quart is a very old racer trick that many of us have used over the years for engines with known oil starvation problems. Bondurant did the extra quart of oil on all their school vipers to help the starvation problem. The extra oil is not the best solution but its much cheaper then our dry sump system, or our racing oil pan.

Are there not concerns of getting the crank into the oil and aerating it?

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Are there not concerns of getting the crank into the oil and aerating it?

Yes aerating is always a concern. Never had a problem with the viper motors aerating with the extra oil. Other motors, small blocks and big blocks yes aerating has always been a problem I bet Im not telling you anything you dont already know camarochevy1970 . The extra oil in the viper is not the solution to the problem its more of a band aid, not perfect but helps

[darbgnik]

Not sure if anyone already mentioned to add extra oil in this thread . Oil starvation is a big problem on factory pan vipers all of us know that. We have always added and extra quart of oil to combat the problem of oil starvation especially vipers run at the track. The extra quart is a very old racer trick that many of us have used over the years for engines with known oil starvation problems. Bondurant did the extra quart of oil on all their school vipers to help the starvation problem. The extra oil is not the best solution but its much cheaper then our dry sump system, or our racing oil pan.

Yip, I used to do this with my old Gen 3 years ago, when tracking it. Now those had a real problem with oil starvation on a road course.

[kriskyk]

Don't need a sensor to tell you your exact oil level. You can use the dipstick for that.
But a sensor to tell you that the oil level is dangerously low before you grenade the motor might have saved a lot of engines.

Details on said oil pan?

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

Details on said oil pan?

road race pan, all aluminum installs just like factory pan. Extra 1.5 quarts of oil, proper sump design for oil pick up, lowers chance for oil starvation in racing applications and motors with basic modifications. Less expensive alternative to our dry sump system. Not available until late summer. We release all our viper parts in our vendor sponsor forum

[Space Truckin]

road race pan, all aluminum installs just like factory pan. Extra 1.5 quarts of oil, proper sump design for oil pick up, lowers chance for oil starvation in racing applications and motors with basic modifications. Less expensive alternative to our dry sump system. Not available until late summer. We release all our viper parts in our vendor sponsor forum

Subscribed for group buy...:drive:

[kriskyk]

road race pan, all aluminum installs just like factory pan. Extra 1.5 quarts of oil, proper sump design for oil pick up, lowers chance for oil starvation in racing applications and motors with basic modifications. Less expensive alternative to our dry sump system. Not available until late summer. We release all our viper parts in our vendor sponsor forum

We are waiting :t1236:

[ViperGeorge]

road race pan, all aluminum installs just like factory pan. Extra 1.5 quarts of oil, proper sump design for oil pick up, lowers chance for oil starvation in racing applications and motors with basic modifications. Less expensive alternative to our dry sump system. Not available until late summer. We release all our viper parts in our vendor sponsor forum

Does it sit lower and closer to the road?

[TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM]

We are waiting :t1236:

I apologize for the late response we have been busy.

Space truckin when our pan becomes available email me and we can figure something out.

Pan does not sit lower then chassis frame rail so no ground clearance problems. Our pan is same height as factory oil pan. We also added turbo drain backs for the turbo viper people.

[BLUVENM]

I know it sounds bad...but hey a guys gotta ask

This definitely was good for a LMAO moment.

[camarochevy1970]

So how would you read this dipstick? I would say full, but I don't know why oil isn't going entirely to the edge of the dipstick


4361843619

[swexlin]

Looks full to my eye.

[camarochevy1970]

You see what I mean about the oil not being on that one edge though right?

[swexlin]

You see what I mean about the oil not being on that one edge though right?

Yes, these sticks are tricky. Mine never looks the same twice!

[quickster2]

I check my oil both hot and cold and have established correlation over time (a few checks). Being on a level surface is important also.

My Cayenne S had no dipstick. You also had to bring the oil temp up to operating temp before the sensor would tell you if the oil level was good. You definitely had to count the empty oil jugs when you did your oil change of 10 quarts. This on a $30K engine as well.

[camarochevy1970]

I check my oil both hot and cold and have established correlation over time (a few checks). Being on a level surface is important also.

Right, normally I check hot and cold as well. That edge not having oil on it is messing with me. I don't understand how a stick submerged in oil can come out with an edge not covered

[SRT BILL]

It's been said before however I'll repeat a procedure that has worked for myself.
1. Drain your oil and change filter.
2. Add 11 quarts of oil. (using some to fill the new filter before installing)
3. start and run engine.
4. check dip stick however you like, your reading will be different on each side of stick.
5. now you know where full is on your dip stick.
As long as you do this in a consistent manor you should not ever be far off on the oil measurement.

[AZTVR]

Right, normally I check hot and cold as well. That edge not having oil on it is messing with me. I don't understand how a stick submerged in oil can come out with an edge not covered PM sent

[camarochevy1970]

Thanks. Your PM was correct, the area circled is what I was questioning

43623

[StrokerAce]

Subscribed for group buy...:drive:

I'm in.


You see what I mean about the oil not being on that one edge though right?

My 13 has the angled dipstick and it doesn't even do that.

[TA Two Oh]

I am not in any way an expert, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Based on my read of your dipstick, your oil could be dangerously low. If you dip a stick straight down in water, there’s a defined line that shows how deep it went. The whole stick is wet below that line, and dry above it. Unless contaminated by a water repelling substance, no part of the stick that was under water should be dry. Obviously we’re dealing with different shapes and materials when discussing a metal dipstick in oil but to me, the same principle should apply.

If someone splashed water on the stick, as opposed to submerging it, then only part of it -one side, for instance- would be wet. If you check your oil the way most of us were taught, by pulling the dipstick out, wiping it clean, then reinserting it and pulling it out a second time to check the level, you may have inadvertently transferred oil from the dipstick to the tube on the first pull. Then when you reinsert the dipstick, some of that oil transfers - like the stick that’s been splashed by water- back onto the dipstick. You never get a clean line in that case. And if the splash or transfer happens to go up to the SAFE mark, it may appear as though your oil level is full, when it isn’t.

Follow the instructions in your owners manual. Check your oil a few minutes after shutdown and only pull the stick once.

My car is like many others where the dipstick reads the same whether I pull it shortly after shutdown, or the next morning. But others have noted differences, so stick to the instructions in your manual. And if there isn’t a level, consistent line where the oil level tops out, you are likely getting transfer from the dipstick tube. I hope that helps!

[quickster2]

It's been said before however I'll repeat a procedure that has worked for myself.
1. Drain your oil and change filter.
2. Add 11 quarts of oil. (using some to fill the new filter before installing)
3. start and run engine.
4. check dip stick however you like, your reading will be different on each side of stick.
5. now you know where full is on your dip stick.
As long as you do this in a consistent manor you should not ever be far off on the oil measurement.

Do this then there should be no debate. On the dipstick there should be a solid oil mark not like the picture a few threads above.

[camarochevy1970]

Do this then there should be no debate. On the dipstick there should be a solid oil mark not like the picture a few threads above.

Right that's my concern. Also worth noting that has about 300 miles on it since the dealer changed the oil

[gpbtt]

Speaking with Dick Winkles he told me that while he was testing at Daytona they never had Oil Starvation issues. I specifically asked about running an Xtra quart of oil.....he said NO.
Everone has there take on what works....I run Daytona about 3 times a year for 3 days each time.....NO issues with oil...I do check after every session.....24,000 miles on my 2016...more track miles than street.43630