What s the best exhaust setup for the gev v gts

[Eddieg]

Hello everyone,

New guy here, just got the car a couple weeks ago. Starting the mod process asap. Going to do a baseline dyno run today or tomorrow and want to buy full headers and exhaust. Wondering what the best brand is for power, fitment, weight, and would love something that spits some nice flames, lol. Please let me know. Thank you.

God Bless,

Eddie

[Space Truckin]

Congrats...your request is totally subjective. I am running ARH Headers ceramic coated/ HF cats and factory cat back and I love it. There will be others who will chime in with Belangers w Corsa....FWIW

[Fatboy 18]

Next question, Will the car need to pass Decibel track inspection at any time? If the answer to that is Yes, then go from that start point. :)

[cubeman]

ARH from headers to the tips of your exhaust

[Eddieg]

Congrats...your request is totally subjective. I am running ARH Headers ceramic coated/ HF cats and factory cat back and I love it. There will be others who will chime in with Belangers w Corsa....FWIW


Thank you. Lol. I figured it would be but I had to ask, I also plan on doing a big nitrous shot or supercharger on the car also for reference.

Eddie

[Eddieg]

Next question, Will the car need to pass Decibel track inspection at any time? If the answer to that is Yes, then go from that start point. :)

I usually track all my cars at some point, and if I like it, I build from there. As of right now this wouldn’t be a factor but it would be good to know also, in case. Thank you for pointing that out

- - - Updated - - -


ARH from headers to the tips of your exhaust

Someone else recommended the same setup. I’m assuming non catted right?

[ForTehNguyen]

may want to take into consideration this guys thread about full ARH catless

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/19951-Installed-full-catless-ARH-exhaust-on-my-14-TA-and-the-drone-is-INSANE

[MoparJohn]

Talk to Jon B at Parts Rack. I run his setup. Factory headers so you don't ruin your warranty. High Flow cats and bellanger muffler. https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/12857-PartsRack-Belanger-Hi-Flow-Cats-Catbacks?highlight=stubby+special

[ForTehNguyen]

I run that same exhaust too, very nice. Depends on your dealer about using the Arrow PCM + headers

[Eddieg]

may want to take into consideration this guys thread about full ARH catless

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/19951-Installed-full-catless-ARH-exhaust-on-my-14-TA-and-the-drone-is-INSANE

Thank you. Does anyone have videos of the different manufacturers headers and exhaust, and how they sound.

[Eddieg]

I run that same exhaust too, very nice. Depends on your dealer about using the Arrow PCM + headers

Not to familiar with the arrow pcm, is there a way to get the cliffnote version explained to me? Price, purpose, ease of install. I don’t think the warranty will be an issue for me at the dealership.

[ForTehNguyen]

Arrow PCM is like $1600-1800 (?) i believe, it will disable the primary O2 sensors so you can run the headers without a CEL and other tweaks to the programming. I didnt want to risk powertrain warranty, gasoline smell, or not being able to pass emissions so I didnt go that route.

[cubeman]

Arrow PCM is like $1600-1800 (?) i believe, it will disable the primary O2 sensors so you can run the headers without a CEL and other tweaks to the programming. I didnt want to risk powertrain warranty, gasoline smell, or not being able to pass emissions so I didnt go that route.


Depending on how your state does emissions, Arrow PCM won't be an issue.

I recommend AR Headers, Cats, Cat-Back. Cats eliminate drone, At-least a person without cats has terrible drone and I don't so I'll assume thats the cause.

[johniew398]

I run Belanger headers and Corsa exhaust on my 14 TA, no cats but that was a part of the Arrow heads/cam and tune package.

I don't have to worry about emissions test. Not the best of videos but here are two clips, the first one is the first time I heard it after Woodhouse replaced the heads and cam.

https://youtu.be/4-h9t0JZNTk

https://youtu.be/Pj5xVXaIq0k

[ViperGeorge]

This has been mentioned many times on this site but given you are new it is worth repeating. You must insulate the hell out of everything if you run headers. This includes the main wire harness that runs to the fuse box (the Power Distribution Center or PDC as it is called), O2 wires if you are running O2s, the plastic EVAP line that runs under PDC to firewall (in fact just cut it and run a 1/2 gas line away from the heat as even stock Vipers melt this line), ABS lines along driver's side frame rail, coolant lines that run to oil cooler on passenger's side, the PDC itself (some vendors sell a metal shield for this purpose), and basically anything else anywhere near the headers. If you don't do this, expect melted wires, melted PDC, melted lines, etc.

[Eddieg]

Arrow PCM is like $1600-1800 (?) i believe, it will disable the primary O2 sensors so you can run the headers without a CEL and other tweaks to the programming. I didnt want to risk powertrain warranty, gasoline smell, or not being able to pass emissions so I didnt go that route.

Thank you

- - - Updated - - -


I run Belanger headers and Corsa exhaust on my 14 TA, no cats but that was a part of the Arrow heads/cam and tune package.

I don't have to worry about emissions test. Not the best of videos but here are two clips, the first one is the first time I heard it after Woodhouse replaced the heads and cam.

https://youtu.be/4-h9t0JZNTk

https://youtu.be/Pj5xVXaIq0k

Sounds great. Any high rpm sound videos? Or in car cruising sound clips?

[Eddieg]

This has been mentioned many times on this site but given you are new it is worth repeating. You must insulate the hell out of everything if you run headers. This includes the main wire harness that runs to the fuse box (the Power Distribution Center or PDC as it is called), O2 wires if you are running O2s, the plastic EVAP line that runs under PDC to firewall (in fact just cut it and run a 1/2 gas line away from the heat as even stock Vipers melt this line), ABS lines along driver's side frame rail, coolant lines that run to oil cooler on passenger's side, the PDC itself (some vendors sell a metal shield for this purpose), and basically anything else anywhere near the headers. If you don't do this, expect melted wires, melted PDC, melted lines, etc.

Thank you, this is really good to know. I had no idea it was that bad.i will do this at the same time as the full exhaust install.

[ViperGeorge]

Arrow PCM is like $1600-1800 (?) i believe, it will disable the primary O2 sensors so you can run the headers without a CEL and other tweaks to the programming. I didnt want to risk powertrain warranty, gasoline smell, or not being able to pass emissions so I didnt go that route.

The Arrow PCM will also give you more power as long as you are running at least 93 octane.

[Eddieg]

Anyone have any input about the agency power full titanium exhaust? I have titanium akrapovic exhaust on my z06 and I absolutely love it, want to know if the ti agency has good reputation also.

https://youtu.be/Jy4FdXRwiVk

https://youtu.be/TdfnEXbqOn0

[Eddieg]

The Arrow PCM will also give you more power as long as you are running at least 93 octane.

Will I be able to achieve the same power numbers with hp tuners?

[ACR]

ARH plus whatever exhaust.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Will I be able to achieve the same power numbers with hp tuners?

You'll make more power with HP Tuners

[ViperGeorge]

Thank you, this is really good to know. I had no idea it was that bad.i will do this at the same time as the full exhaust install.

The Gen 4s with headers would often melt the rear O2 sensor wires but the Gen 5s melt the front O2 sensor wires (and other stuff) as they go over the frame very close to the header. I'm told you can reroute the front O2 wires straight up by drilling through some shielding but I didn't do that. The Gen 5 engine compartment seems tighter than the Gen 3/4 and I suspect that is why other things are melting. You might also put some reflective heat tape or insulation around the radiator plastic tank on the passenger side. The Viper uses coolant flow through the oil cooler to cool the oil. If the coolant gets hot because of header heat so will the oil. Gen 5s run higher coolant temps on the track than comparable Gen 4s as there doesn't seem to be as much air flow over the radiator.

My 2015 TA 2.0 with full Bellanger headers/exhaust would run 240-245 coolant on the track and 265 oil. My new stock 2017 ACR-E runs about 225 coolant on the track. I think some of the difference may be a result of two things. One the ACR's front splitter is probably shooting more air through the radiator and two the headers on my 2015 TA were probably heating coolant in the lines and tank even with insulation.

My 2009 ACR with headers and other mods would never get above 210 coolant on the track no matter how hard it was driven.

[Eddieg]

The Gen 4s with headers would often melt the rear O2 sensor wires but the Gen 5s melt the front O2 sensor wires (and other stuff) as they go over the frame very close to the header. I'm told you can reroute the front O2 wires straight up by drilling through some shielding but I didn't do that. The Gen 5 engine compartment seems tighter than the Gen 3/4 and I suspect that is why other things are melting. You might also put some reflective heat tape or insulation around the radiator plastic tank on the passenger side. The Viper uses coolant flow through the oil cooler to cool the oil. If the coolant gets hot because of header heat so will the oil. Gen 5s run higher coolant temps on the track than comparable Gen 4s as there doesn't seem to be as much air flow over the radiator.

My 2015 TA 2.0 with full Bellanger headers/exhaust would run 240-245 coolant on the track and 265 oil. My new stock 2017 ACR-E runs about 225 coolant on the track. I think some of the difference may be a result of two things. One the ACR's front splitter is probably shooting more air through the radiator and two the headers on my 2015 TA were probably heating coolant in the lines and tank even with insulation.

My 2009 ACR with headers and other mods would never get above 210 coolant on the track no matter how hard it was driven.

That’s impressive for the older model. I had similar temp issues with with my z06 on the track and did a couple little tricks to cool it down. Do you have an upgraded radiator? I also like to use redline coolant water wetter. It has always dropped my coolant temps down on the track.

[Eddieg]

Dynoed the car yesterday stock, getting ready to order parts, still undecided on exhaust and headers. Anyone local to south Florida that has exhaust willing to meet with me so I can hear the car?

here are the results:

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/19978-Gen-V-stock-dyno?p=322702#post322702

[jaxtk]

Not to familiar with the arrow pcm, is there a way to get the cliffnote version explained to me? Price, purpose, ease of install. I don’t think the warranty will be an issue for me at the dealership.

Think again, kiss your warranty good by.

[ForTehNguyen]

depends on the dealer. To me the car has enough power and sound, not worth risking warranty for a little extra power

[ViperGeorge]

That’s impressive for the older model. I had similar temp issues with with my z06 on the track and did a couple little tricks to cool it down. Do you have an upgraded radiator? I also like to use redline coolant water wetter. It has always dropped my coolant temps down on the track.

I never tried an upgraded radiator but someone else on here did (Karl, I think). Didn't really help. He tried various things (removing hood vents, removing weatherstrip at back of hood, Viper engine covers, etc.) to get the car to cool down, not much helped though. He also changed out the water pump with one that had closer tolerances (he got it from Arrow). I believe the water pump helped. Dick Winkles (engine designer) said car is ok up to about 250 or 255 coolant but the PCM will start pulling timing below that number. Plus the dash starts flashing a red warning at 240 which is a bit disconcerting.

There are some threads on here about cooling that are worth reading. Here's one:

https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/9975-Track-Day-Temps?highlight=track+temps

[Eddieg]

depends on the dealer. To me the car has enough power and sound, not worth risking warranty for a little extra power

Car feels great, no doubt about that, I just want some more out of it. It’s just in my nature and my obsession to modify my vehicles. Lol.

[jwalk]

I had the Arrow controller on my 2016 ACR w/ belanger headers/hi flow and exhaust. I had high temp issues at multiple tracks, car even shut down a pit out. . On my 2017 ACR I only did the headers cats and exhaust and I have had no high temps. Same basic car, set up , and tracks of similar temps. Only difference was the Arrow controller. Other Illinois club members with the controller have experienced same high heat temps. Its my understanding that if your motor goes and there is any indication that the controllers had been swapped you kiss warranty good bye. FCA can verify somehow by the mileage in the computer if the controller had been swapped. I don't know how much HP the controller made but the throttle response was much improved.

[ViperGeorge]

I had the Arrow controller on my 2016 ACR w/ belanger headers/hi flow and exhaust. I had high temp issues at multiple tracks, car even shut down a pit out. . On my 2017 ACR I only did the headers cats and exhaust and I have had no high temps. Same basic car, set up , and tracks of similar temps. Only difference was the Arrow controller. Other Illinois club members with the controller have experienced same high heat temps. Its my understanding that if your motor goes and there is any indication that the controllers had been swapped you kiss warranty good bye. FCA can verify somehow by the mileage in the computer if the controller had been swapped. I don't know how much HP the controller made but the throttle response was much improved.

A friend in a bone stock 2014 GTS was at the track the same day I was there in my 2015 TA 2.0. I had full Bellanger headers and exhaust with the Arrow controller. His car was just as it came from the factory. We were running similar lap times. His temps were 239 mine were 241. No appreciable difference with or without the Arrow controller. I did multiple tests - with Arrow controller, without Arrow controller, without under drive pulley, with under drive pulley. No statistical difference.

Re warranty, while FCA did originally deny engine claims for three cars with the Arrow controller they eventually reversed that decision as examination of the bearings that failed showed they failed due to debris not detonation or something that could have been caused by the PCM. There are several threads on this site concerning this.

The basic problem with the Gen 5 re cooling is the air inlet in the front bumper is too small and the engine compartment is too tight as compared to a Gen 4.

[Eddieg]

I had the Arrow controller on my 2016 ACR w/ belanger headers/hi flow and exhaust. I had high temp issues at multiple tracks, car even shut down a pit out. . On my 2017 ACR I only did the headers cats and exhaust and I have had no high temps. Same basic car, set up , and tracks of similar temps. Only difference was the Arrow controller. Other Illinois club members with the controller have experienced same high heat temps. Its my understanding that if your motor goes and there is any indication that the controllers had been swapped you kiss warranty good bye. FCA can verify somehow by the mileage in the computer if the controller had been swapped. I don't know how much HP the controller made but the throttle response was much improved.

sounds like I will be going with a custom tune then, lol. hp tuners.

[Eddieg]

A friend in a bone stock 2014 GTS was at the track the same day I was there in my 2015 TA 2.0. I had full Bellanger headers and exhaust with the Arrow controller. His car was just as it came from the factory. We were running similar lap times. His temps were 239 mine were 241. No appreciable difference with or without the Arrow controller. I did multiple tests - with Arrow controller, without Arrow controller, without under drive pulley, with under drive pulley. No statistical difference.

Re warranty, while FCA did originally deny engine claims for three cars with the Arrow controller they eventually reversed that decision as examination of the bearings that failed showed they failed due to debris not detonation or something that could have been caused by the PCM. There are several threads on this site concerning this.

The basic problem with the Gen 5 re cooling is the air inlet in the front bumper is too small and the engine compartment is too tight as compared to a Gen 4.

I will start looking into cooling mods and see if I can make something with the 3d printer to better direct airflow under the hood

[Scott_in_fl]

There looks to be significant opportunity to pull air into the engine compartment from underneath the car. The underbody has a panel in front of the engine that could potentially be ported to allow air to be driven into the engine compartment. The real issue may be how to get the air back out (preferably someplace up at hood level and near the rear of the engine compartment so that you have some lateral flow up and out of the car just before the windshield).

[slowhatch]

Thank you. Does anyone have videos of the different manufacturers headers and exhaust, and how they sound.

Here is my car with Belanger longtubes, hi-flow cats, showing off the difference between Corsa and Belanger catback.

I believe full Belanger is the best absolute tone for Vipers, period. Just my opinion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tbwQk1yTYo&t=2s

[slowhatch]

sounds like I will be going with a custom tune then, lol. hp tuners.

I would take those blanket statements with a grain of salt. TONS of guys track with Arrow controllers without issue, so there could be a lot more to it than just ecu.

[Eddieg]

Here is my car with Belanger longtubes, hi-flow cats, showing off the difference between Corsa and Belanger catback.

I believe full Belanger is the best absolute tone for Vipers, period. Just my opinion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tbwQk1yTYo&t=2s

Great video, I appreciate it. Sounds good.

[Jet Slicker]

Arrow PCM is like $1600-1800 (?) i believe, it will disable the primary O2 sensors so you can run the headers without a CEL and other tweaks to the programming. I didnt want to risk powertrain warranty, gasoline smell, or not being able to pass emissions so I didnt go that route.

Arrow PCM is $1100~$1200 and disables the rear o2 sensors and not the fronts/primary's. Also if anybody is curious about the uncatted gasoline smell; it really doesn't bother me much and I can hardly smell it. There is not an abundance of exhaust that comes into the cabin with the windows down or up in my experience. My girlfriend didn't even notice the smell and she hardly tolerates anything car related (working on fixing that lol). Even when I do smell the uncatted exhaust, it smells like race fuel/C16 and isn't actually too bad haha.


Thank you, this is really good to know. I had no idea it was that bad.i will do this at the same time as the full exhaust install.

As for the heat issues, I didn't want to play around. I have the full uncatted ARH setup with all the drone. I got every inch of the exhaust ceramic coated inside and out (Except the inside of the mufflers), and I wrapped every inch of the exhaust with DEI titanium wrap. Underhood temps are noticeably lower when I open the hood, nothing has melted, and the side sills hardly even get warm. Very glad I coated and wrapped everything because the heat isn't an issue at all.

[CNU_Physics]

Here is my car with Belanger longtubes, hi-flow cats, showing off the difference between Corsa and Belanger catback.

I believe full Belanger is the best absolute tone for Vipers, period. Just my opinion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tbwQk1yTYo&t=2s

Does the Corsa just sound like a louder version of the stock exhaust to you? That's the impression I get from many of the Corsa vids. The Belanger sounds very different from stock though.

[ACR]

Here is my car with Belanger longtubes, hi-flow cats, showing off the difference between Corsa and Belanger catback.

I believe full Belanger is the best absolute tone for Vipers, period. Just my opinion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tbwQk1yTYo&t=2s


Sounds very similar imo

[v10tt]

Eddieg, I sent you a PM with detailed information on the subject and my findings with a header swap.
Julio


Will I be able to achieve the same power numbers with hp tuners?

[slowhatch]

Does the Corsa just sound like a louder version of the stock exhaust to you? That's the impression I get from many of the Corsa vids. The Belanger sounds very different from stock though.

That's exactly how I would describe it.

Corsa is very loud past 4k, but is very restrained and drone free below that. Belanger is deep and "droney" all throughout the rev range. I didn't particularly like the corsa "dump truck" idle and hollow low rpm sound.