Did u Pay Cash or Finance

[Policy Limits]

Your gen V?

For those who did the latter recently, what do the rates & terms look like? What lender are you using? Is there a prepayment penalty?

[ViperGTS]

Never finance a toy. Just my 2 cents. If you cant afford it (and the proper maintenance, joy trips, new tires, drivers trainings, ...), skip it. :t0140:

[Bitten]

I put 1/2 down used a Credit Union straight up regular loan in the 2% range no penalty for early payment which I plan to do. I probably could have got in the 1% range but I hate ally and crap one. They quit sending you statements after you pay extra so many times.

[Bitten]

Never finance a toy. Just my 2 cents. If you cant afford it (and the proper maintenance, joy trips, new tires, drivers trainings, ...), skip it. :t0140:


Money is so cheap right now that I didn't want to use my extra cash stash.

[Timnineside]

Never finance a toy. Just my 2 cents. If you cant afford it (and the proper maintenance, joy trips, new tires, drivers trainings, ...), skip it. :t0140:

If you know how to properly manage your money never pay cash on large investments. Interest rates are ridiculously low. Borrow the money from a credit union and use your cash for other investments. (Invest wisely)

[J TNT]

Cash for toys , Leverage on Investments . Sorry the Viper is not a Financial Investment .imho :)

[randd]

Traded Gen III + cash. I also do not consider this purchase an investment. It's a car I am going to enjoy to the fullest and drive way more often than I did the 06 coupe.

[ViperSmith]

got a good rate and writing off part of payments for business. rather pay small interest rate and keep money from uncle sam than give them anymore.

[agentf1]

How can anything that cost you about $100 a month for insurance be an investment. The car would have to appreciate over 1200 a year to break even. Not to mention maintenance etc.

My Viper is an investment but not a financial one. It is an investment in my sanity.

I agree, do not finance your toys. I did take a 30k home equity for my Callaway but I had the cash and figured I needed the tax break on the Mortgage interest. That said I would probably have been better off just paying cash since it really is not making much in the bank right now anyway.

[Policy Limits]

I paid cash. I would imagine if you are only paying 1-2% and are making 4-5% in the bank it makes sense to finance. Then again sales tax, excise tax, insurance and maintenance need to be factored in. Plus interest rates are pretty bad; you need to tie up money for years in a CD to not even make 3%.

I'm looking into leasing on the new Lambo; I hear the payment is 100% deductible for taxation purposes through a business. There's a mileage restriction but I never put more than 2k in miles annually on my first one anyway.

[TrackAire]

I paid cash. I would imagine if you are only paying 1-2% and are making 4-5% in the bank it makes sense to finance. Then again sales tax, excise tax, insurance and maintenance need to be factored in. Plus interest rates are pretty bad; you need to tie up money for years in a CD to not even make 3%.

I'm looking into leasing on the new Lambo; I hear the payment is 100% deductible for taxation purposes through a business. There's a mileage restriction but I never put more than 2k in miles annually on my first one anyway.

I'd like more info on the 100% deduction regarding leases....how much of car has to be related to the business? Could a doctor deduct the expenses if he claims the Lambo is his daily driver to the office?

Cheers,
George

[ViperSmith]

I'd like more info on the 100% deduction regarding leases....how much of car has to be related to the business? Could a doctor deduct the expenses if he claims the Lambo is his daily driver to the office?

Cheers,
George

you have to track your milage on how you use it for business.

In reality you'd probably end up using a lot less than 100% for business, so you'd basically figure out what % that actually is in your log book and write that off.

[Policy Limits]

Not sure. Never leased in my life as I hated the idea that I didn't actually own it. Just a thought.

If there's a CPA on here, pretty sure he or she would be able to answer

[Policy Limits]

***btw with a lease you only pay sales tax on the Residual; much less cost than 7% of 270k, which is the price of a fully optioned Huracan btw

[TrackAire]

you have to track your milage on how you use it for business.

In reality you'd probably end up using a lot less than 100% for business, so you'd basically figure out what % that actually is in your log book and write that off.

That's what I thought, but since most own more than one vehicle, how much mileage would you actually accumulate on a Lambo to actually make a difference? Now if the car was used as a promo device, big banners on the side, used to deliver product and or services, then it might make sense depending on how you do the books and your state tax regs on the purchase.

Cheers,
George

[Policy Limits]

With a first ever dual clutch tranny I think it's possible. My firm does 20k in mikes annually to depositions, arbitrations house calls etc, so it's possible. I'd skip the big banners on the Lamborghini though, as its unnecessary 8-p

[ViperSmith]

even if 33% is business use

it is money you don't have to give to the IRS

how i view it!

[swexlin]

How can anything that cost you about $100 a month for insurance be an investment. The car would have to appreciate over 1200 a year to break even. Not to mention maintenance etc.

My Viper is an investment but not a financial one. It is an investment in my sanity.

I agree, do not finance your toys. I did take a 30k home equity for my Callaway but I had the cash and figured I needed the tax break on the Mortgage interest. That said I would probably have been better off just paying cash since it really is not making much in the bank right now anyway.

This. An investment in life. I have made more friends, and experienced new things throught the car world. But, you can never get your accountant or financial advisor to agree with this, LOL!

[ViperGeorge]

even if 33% is business use

it is money you don't have to give to Obama

how i view it!

Fixed it for you.

[johniew398]

One can argue either way.

I haven't financed a car since my 02 Z06. I had cash put aside when I retired for the next Viper, was supposed to be the next ACR but got the TA instead of waiting.

[Leslie]

Traded Gen III + cash. I also do not consider this purchase an investment. It's a car I am going to enjoy to the fullest and drive way more often than I did the 06 coupe.

What he said. Trade as down pmt:)
I am living life NOW! haha

[Dman]

Always an interesting topic. Personally I only due cash for cars, too much influence from my parents, lol.

I put $100k aside almost 18 mos ago for a gen5 but haven't been intrigued enough yet to buy and sell my gen4.

I do lease a company car thru my company, but I budget that at $600/mon or so, which allows me to do an uber loaded lux pickup truck. I use it at 90% for business, the 10% is taxable then. I'd imagine leasing the viper thru a company would be an easy option for folks, I just use the viper as a toy so I wouldn't mix it with biz stuff. I'd think someone working in the auto or auto aftermarket industry could do it super easily.

One thing I have done for convenience is use an equity line of credit, I don't carry mortgages so I have an equity line on a house and I've used that to buy a car in a cash transaction to avoid having to break money free when it wasn't convenient, and then pay that off to myself when convenient, meantime the interest paid is both low and tax deductible. Haven't done that in a few yrs but it can make things flexible for buying more spontaneously.

[Nine Ball]

I paid cash for my last new Viper, but after a couple years I thought about it and that was sort of a dumb idea. I could have earned/invested a portion of that cash and earned more on it than the interest rate would have been. I typically put 50% down, finance the rest on low rates. I joined River Land Credit Union by getting a silly membership to some art council for a few bucks. Got a nice 1.99% loan on my '13. They will even do that rate for 84 months, if you need it.

https://www.riverlandcu.org/new/autos.htm

Never leased a car, but there are pros and cons of doing it. Just about every exotic car owner around here seems to be leasing their cars, even the high-end build Underground Racing customers. They use Putnam Leasing or Premier Financial.

http://www.premierfinancialservices.com/
http://www.putnamleasing.com/

[Policy Limits]

I hear closed end lease is better than open; anyone know the difference?

[HobokenViper]

Paid cash for my house, yet I finance all of my cars, go figure....... I did pay cash for my first car, a used 94' Camaro, many many moons ago, but have not done so since. Currently have 0% financing for 2 of my 3 cars, so why not accept the free money? And I paid about half the purchase price of my Viper in cash, the rest I found financing for because that's just what I was comfortable with personally. Not to mention my wife was not a fan of me buying the Viper, and the only way I could convince her to go along with it was to not use much $$$ out of pocket (sold my Audi TT for the cash part), and now my monthly payments on it are less than both of my other 2 cars. Best part about that is that when her folks give me crap about buying such an expensive and fancy car 6 months after I had my first child, I just tell them what it costs me per month, and they shut right up!!!

I don't buy into the belief that you should only pay cash for a toy or you can't afford it. I could have afforded to pay cash for my cars, but preferred to take advantage of free money loans, as well as other contributing factors that continue to cause me to get financing on all my cars. That's just my personal comfort level.

[ViperSmith]

I hear closed end lease is better than open; anyone know the difference?

closed: you agree with dealer on your walk away price at the end. for instance, my bmw - $48,000 MSRP - end of lease value $31,000 after 3 years. if the car is worth $28,000 - i lose $0, BMW eats the loss. But, if it is worth $35,000 - i could either eat the "loss" or buy it and sell it and gain $4,000

open: you buy a $400,000 Ferrari F12. Open ended lease says it will be worth $200,000 in 3 years. 3 years is up it is worth $100,000. you cough up $100,000.

[ACRucrazy]

If everyone followed the cash for toys mentality not many Vipers would be sold, or other toys for that matter.

[ViperGeorge]

I financed $80K for 2 months and just paid that off today. I prefer to pay cash and not have the loan hanging over my head. I do lease my wife's Grand Cherokee as it forces me to get a new one every 36 months.

[Policy Limits]

Paid cash for my house, yet I finance all of my cars, go figure....... I did pay cash for my first car, a used 94' Camaro, many many moons ago, but have not done so since. Currently have 0% financing for 2 of my 3 cars, so why not accept the free money? And I paid about half the purchase price of my Viper in cash, the rest I found financing for because that's just what I was comfortable with personally. Not to mention my wife was not a fan of me buying the Viper, and the only way I could convince her to go along with it was to not use much $$$ out of pocket (sold my Audi TT for the cash part), and now my monthly payments on it are less than both of my other 2 cars. Best part about that is that when her folks give me crap about buying such an expensive and fancy car 6 months after I had my first child, I just tell them what it costs me per month, and they shut right up!!!

I don't buy into the belief that you should only pay cash for a toy or you can't afford it. I could have afforded to pay cash for my cars, but preferred to take advantage of free money loans, as well as other contributing factors that continue to cause me to get financing on all my cars. That's just my personal comfort level.
0% financing?? What is the name of your lender? I want free money too!

[F2V]

I paid cash. I would imagine if you are only paying 1-2% and are making 4-5% in the bank it makes sense to finance. Then again sales tax, excise tax, insurance and maintenance need to be factored in. Plus interest rates are pretty bad; you need to tie up money for years in a CD to not even make 3%.

I'm looking into leasing on the new Lambo; I hear the payment is 100% deductible for taxation purposes through a business. There's a mileage restriction but I never put more than 2k in miles annually on my first one anyway.

You are correct, that is until or if your business is audited by IRS. My educated guess is that you would have a VERY hard time justifying a Lambo and its cost (lease or otherwise), as a business vehicle...unless you are a dealer or in a related type of auto industry. The downside could be penalties to your business, and the costs deducted by them, taxed to you as personal income. Better check with your accountant :-)

[Policy Limits]

Nothing illegal about it. Dual clutch transmission would make it a realistic daily driver too. Only downside I can see is there's typically a mileage restriction or limitation on a lease. I know business owners who lease. Would thing the manufacturer of the vehicle would be immaterial.

Still don't like that you don't actually own the car though. Even if there is subsequently an option to purchase. In the end I vote not to finance luxuries, to just buy the way I have. Unless that lender who gives free money wants new clients...where is that place........

[VRYALT3R3D]

I hear closed end lease is better than open; anyone know the difference?

Closed end lease- Fixed residual rate with the option to buy.

This type of lease means that the residual value is fixed at the beginning of the lease and you have the option of purchasing the car at the residual value or simply walking away from it.

Open end lease- Fixed residual rate with the option to buy, BUT you must pay the difference.

With an open end lease there is still a residual value set at the beginning of the lease but if the car is worth more than the residual value then you must pay the difference. Always go for closed-end lease.

Money factor. This is the phrase used for the finance rate upon which the lease payments are based. The lower the rate, the lower the monthly payments. Obviously you want the lowest rate you can find.

GAP protection This is extra insurance coverage that will cover the lease balance and any early termination fees.

Mileage allowance
Watch the mileage allowance you are getting. If you are going to go over the allowence, trade your car in early. By doing that you can finance what you owe on the car by putting it towards your next lease instead of paying the mileage penalty up front.

Wear and tear
You have to keep the car in good shape. If you don't maintain the car well and run it down, you will be responsible for the damages at the end of the lease.

MISC. Fees

--Be prepared to give a security deposit.

Acquisition fee and Disposition fee. Ask for these fees to be negotiated out of your lease.

--

Remember leasing a car is not different from buying a car. Never announce to the dealer you can pay x a month to lease a car. Start by negotiating the price of the car as if you are buying the car. Then negotiate the residual value and the excess mileage fees.

[nastygts]

Finance.

I qualified for 1.5% for 72mths. I also carry this as an executive vehicle for my business.

Before you guys get all worked up.....i have the funds to pay off in the event of a financial crisis.


The sad part is Chrysler would not finance the MSRP price. A local credit union that didn't know me at all financed without any questions.

[HobokenViper]

0% financing?? What is the name of your lender? I want free money too!

I often time my car purchases to get the best possible prices and/or the best possible financing available. For example:

1. Buy your car at the time of year when they are clearing out the inventory around September or October and you can get MAJOR discounts as well as amazing financing deals. This is when I've gotten 0% financing on my cars.

2. Buy your cars at a time of an economic downturn when certain types of cars are not selling well at all. Remember a handful of years ago when the financial world was coming to a temporary end? Well sports cars and higher end luxury cars were out of fashion and sitting on dealer lots and were being mothballed and collecting dust. I decided that was the time to buy my 2nd Audi TT as my DD, and over 4 days of negotiation, I convinced the dealer that I was actually doing them a favor by buying the custom ordered new TT from them and was able to get them to knock $20,000 off the sticker price!!! When I sold it 3 years later to get my Viper, I sold it for the same exact price that I bought it for brand new a few years earlier.

3. Shop around to different dealers because some offer much better prices, financing options, and leasing rates than others.

Long story short, there are many options for amazing deals and absurd financing rates if you choose to put the effort in or time your purchases right.

[KRATEDISEASE]

I have always paid cash (more accurately check) for all of my bikes, cars, toys.

The only one toy that I am still making payments on , and probably will be making payments on forever is my WIFE, even if in the future someone else owns her.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Never ceases to amaze me what people will disclose to anonymous strangers and post on a forum..... finances, illegal speeding, confidential business dealings,

What's next ? Hey, How about a thread on the VOA about how to dispose of a spouse's dead body ?

[slitherv10]

Never ceases to amaze me what people will disclose to anonymous strangers and post on a forum..... finances, illegal speeding, confidential business dealings,

What's next ? Hey, How about a thread on the VOA about how to dispose of a spouse's dead body ?

Ain't it the truth !

Cut up someone's response, tell them they probably can't afford this and that, tell them they know nothing, try and make them feel as little as possible,, disagree with everything they post,, make jokes about them and then...........

tell them about your life's position in a nutshell including all of the above and put yourself in a position you were trying to insinuate they were in...lol...your right on Krate !

[Policy Limits]

LOL

Well this place needed some entertainment, so, you're welcome! ;)

[Dman]

Never ceases to amaze me what people will disclose to anonymous strangers and post on a forum..... finances, illegal speeding, confidential business dealings,

What's next ? Hey, How about a thread on the VOA about how to dispose of a spouse's dead body ?

I don't always dispose of dead bodies, but when I do, I use a Viper.


I can see the meme now. lol

[Nine Ball]

Never ceases to amaze me what people will disclose to anonymous strangers and post on a forum..... finances, illegal speeding, confidential business dealings,

What's next ? Hey, How about a thread on the VOA about how to dispose of a spouse's dead body ?

The rest of the automotive communities already assume we Viper owners have E-D anyways, so the damage is already done. :)

[KRATEDISEASE]

The rest of the automotive communities already assume we Viper owners have E-D anyways, so the damage is already done. :)

How about a new thread.... what E-D medication works the best ?

[Nine Ball]

How about a new thread.... what E-D medication works the best ?

The Gen 5 Viper.

[nastygts]

The Gen 5 Viper.


ObamaCare cover this?

[ViperSmith]

If you didn't have an income, yes.

[johniew398]

Never ceases to amaze me what people will disclose to anonymous strangers and post on a forum..... finances, illegal speeding, confidential business dealings,

What's next ? Hey, How about a thread on the VOA about how to dispose of a spouse's dead body ?

All I know is don't do this in your back yard. Or, if you do make sure the hole is at least ten feet deep.

3042

[johniew398]

Your gen V?

For those who did the latter recently, what do the rates & terms look like? What lender are you using? Is there a prepayment penalty?

Back to your original question. You might check this website for auto load leads:

http://www.bankrate.com/auto.aspx

I know some banks/lending institutions probably won't carry a Viper. I would imagine your best start is your own bank.

It looks like the cheapest rates are around 2.xx% with good credit.

[Policy Limits]

Oh I wired the funds in full prior to delivery. Just curious if others handled it differently

[KRATEDISEASE]

The Gen 5 Viper.

so true !!

[ViperGeorge]

Oh I wired the funds in full prior to delivery. Just curious if others handled it differently

I paid with a personal check on delivery. Not even certified.

[KRATEDISEASE]

I paid with a personal check on delivery. Not even certified.

The Wolf of Wall street wants to know the name of the dealer where you got the car from......he also wants to give him a personal check !!

[Policy Limits]

I did that with the Maserati...and with the Bentley...same with the Lamborghini.

I only said that because he seemed to be under the mistaken assumption that I was looking for a lender.

[ACRucrazy]

Maserati, Bentley, Lambo, Viper cash before 40 years old? Must be doing something right..

[Policy Limits]

I try.

I bought my first Lamborghini at age 33 :)

[HobokenViper]

I try.

I bought my first Lamborghini at age 33 :)

Nice! Very impressive to have been able to get what I'm sure are your dream cars at such a young age. What line of work are you in?

[tattooed]

Nothing wrong with financing, as long as you're smart about it. I financed my C6Z06 with 0% for 72mo.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Nice! Very impressive to have been able to get what I'm sure are your dream cars at such a young age. What line of work are you in?

he is an Attorney. The name "Policy Limits" is derived from the insurance description of what the limits of coverage a policy will pay for a personal injury ( accident case).

Better that he gets the money to spend than some thieving racketeering gangster insurance company.

[Policy Limits]

LOL. I was gonna say I was an underwater fire safety expert but u beat me to it.

What's the name of the lender that gave the free money Tatooed?

[VRYALT3R3D]

Nothing wrong with financing, as long as you're smart about it. I financed my C6Z06 with 0% for 72mo.

Usually when you get 0%, you lose any cash incentives.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

As far as I’m concerned there isn't a set in stone rule when financing / paying cash for a Viper or anything else. What’s best is going to depend on everyone's individual financial situation and their definition of “best” at the time.

[Bill Pemberton]

Will chime in as this question comes up periodically in similar threads, and 2013 saw probably the highest level of Viper financing I have ever seen. Contrary to common belief this was not done
so much because the price of the vehicle had increased, but because so many customers ( company owners, professionals, etc. ) commented on how foolish it was not to finance since money
was so cheap. When a Business loan might be 5% or more , why not finance a vehicle at 2-3%, and many told me they were not going to take funds out of the market when they were doing so
well to pay in cash. Logic was simple, take funds out earning 20-30% ( yes, somewhat common for aggressive investors last year ) to pay cash, when those monies could be borrowed for such a
pittance.

Not taking sides just reporting what I saw and it was dramatic compared to the last 15 years of selling Vipers. One would need to take an active part, but for me it is hard to bash the logic
of successful business individuals who view money as an instrument to use for their benefit - many do seem to work at it, but making 20% ( or even 10% ) while buying funds at 2-3% is hard to
argue. Sure there are risks as with anything in life, but listening to many of these highly successful people , it is a solid argument for those who have the temperment for risk and work their
funds just like their other interests/business. Not for everyone, of course, as those risk adverse likely will not see this potential. Doesn't mean anyone is wrong, just that what works for one
may not for another.

Then , case number two is for folks like Leslie and I.....................want to enjoy the fruits of life now, and a payments toward an ACR are as necessary as food and water, ha,ha. Could have waited
till had all the funds, but money is cheap, so why not , in my own personal view.

[Policy Limits]

The only 20% I saw was in depreciation on the gen v; hope their advisor wasn't Bernie Madoff

[RedTanRT/10]

he is an Attorney. The name "Policy Limits" is derived from the insurance description of what the limits of coverage a policy will pay for a personal injury ( accident case).

Better that he gets the money to spend than some thieving racketeering gangster insurance company.

Just a wild guess, you don't manufacturer or sell tangible products and your not in favor of tort reform?

[ViperSmith]

The only 20% I saw was in depreciation on the gen v; hope their advisor wasn't Bernie Madoff

Here in VA we get a yearly "property tax" of $4.50 on every $100 in value of your vehicle. I was happy to see that my Gen V was only worth "$92,000" instead of the $110,000 I paid via the state!

As an aside, I will pay more in taxes, this year, my second year of ownership on the car than I did on sales tax AND gas guzzler. Sham.

[Policy Limits]

Way off base to the purpose of the thread but ill play.

Whether its a divorce, criminal charges, bankruptcy, work injury that precludes a worker from performing job duties I can assure you that the legal case is the most important thing happening in their life and is probably the most traumatic thing that will ever occur in his or her lifetime, tangible or not. And no I don't believe the government needs to tell you that there is a cap on damages if a doctor amounted the wrong leg in error, for example. The jury should have the ability to award as much or as little as they choose, including zero. But again, that's another thread.

We also take pride at providing a free consultation on every matter, charge no fees whatsoever unless successful, and unlike some firms we advance one hundred percent of the cost of case prosecution so clients can get the immediate service they need, without paying for it up front. Funny, our local chief disciplinary counsel was asked in a media interview what he thought of lawyer jokes. His response? "The next time you're in trouble try calling a comedian."

Back to cars, interesting to learn of the different purchase choices and reasons therefore. Appreciate folks sharing.

[Policy Limits]

Here in VA we get a yearly "property tax" of $4.50 on every $100 in value of your vehicle. I was happy to see that my Gen V was only worth "$92,000" instead of the $110,000 I paid via the state!

As an aside, I will pay more in taxes, this year, my second year of ownership on the car than I did on sales tax AND gas guzzler. Sham.
Crazy my state charges 7% sales tax so I bet my state made more off the car than my dealer. Then there is an "excise" tax by municipality charged quarterly for ownership. Worst part: both taxes get paid again and again if the vehicle is subsequently sold and purchased numerous times. The car needs to be over ten years old to escape the legalized theft

[Hothonda]

WA State - my county....sales tax 9.8%.

If it's a dealer transaction with a trade-in, we pay the tax on the value $ difference only.

Big hit on outright purchases though.

[ACRucrazy]

Here in VA we get a yearly "property tax" of $4.50 on every $100 in value of your vehicle. I was happy to see that my Gen V was only worth "$92,000" instead of the $110,000 I paid via the state!

As an aside, I will pay more in taxes, this year, my second year of ownership on the car than I did on sales tax AND gas guzzler. Sham.

Are you kidding me?! I wouldn't even consider living in a state like that! $4,140 this year in "property" tax on your $2013 Viper?! Only to pay several thousand again next year, and the year after that.. and after that.. And I thought $500 for tabs this year on a 2009 was a lot.

Right now if I were to buy a 2014 Viper with a base value of $110,000 the registration tax would be $1,134 and decline from there. After 10 years the annual registration fee is $35 regardless of value. In 2019 my ACR will be eligible for collector plates (20 years old or 10 years old an less than 500 of a specific model produced annually) I won't have to pay for tabs yearly at that point and can legally run 1 plate.

[RedTanRT/10]

Sure back to cars

PolicyLimits, the thread as moved in a few different directions. If you're thinking about leasing a Lambo, be carful with lender selection and keep the terms short. You want a closed-end lease, many of the exotic leases marketed are closed-end but there are extremely high early termination clauses (fee's). Mileage limitation are very low. There is no free lunch, your payments will have the entire depreciation factored in on the life of the lease as well as interest. The upside is that you can depreciate a lease for tax purposes, most states only require sales tax paid on the payments, not the purchase price. you have a fixed residual and can walk away if the market value is less than the residual. good luck

[Policy Limits]

Thanks but in the end I've never done it & I'm glad. I don't like restrictions put on mileage and wear and don't like the idea that u don't own the car.

[Bitten]

WA State - my county....sales tax 9.8%.

If it's a dealer transaction with a trade-in, we pay the tax on the value $ difference only.

Big hit on outright purchases though.

That is how it is in Louisiana, I showed 120k on the trade so I paid $500 tax, title and license out the door.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Just a wild guess, you don't manufacturer or sell tangible products and your not in favor of tort reform?

I will defend Policy Limits.

You must understand that 75%- 80% of personal injury cases occur in areas that are fully insured that already have loss ratios of 80cents on the dollar, and where the tort does not need to be reformed.

What that means is that there will always be a statistically a general number of car accidents, work accidents and slip and falls.

The risk of these claims is spread across such a large volume of policies that if a homeowner gets sued by Mr. Policy Limits for someone that slips and falls and breaks their ass, that the homeowner will only have a small incremental increase in their policy premium as a result of a claim, regardless if Mr. Policy Limits pulls out 250G out of the claim for the victim and himself.

The reason is because of the volume of policies and the volume of claims of this nature. same with auto accidents and work accidents. The risk is spread across such a huge volume of premiums when the insurance companies can roughly calculate what they will be paying out in the future, plus or minus a bit.

The insurance companies know that they will pay out 80% of collected premiums. This is what their actuary's calculate in order to determine a competitive premium. If you notice, you will clearly see that across auto carriers the spread between premiums of competing insurance companies is usually a small amount. Only a few hundred dollars. This is because they all have pre-calcuated the risk factors and know they will pay out 80% of collected policy money regardless. Insurance companies make their money on the spread and the fact that they have usually 3 to 4 years to invest or use the money before they pay out a claim for an injury that occurred on any given day. Their profit is the 20% spread .

Unfortunately, product manufactures are in a different boat. Insurance companies cannot calculate the future payouts based upon past history because no manufacturer expects to, or produces products knowing when or if they may fail. It is more Russian roulette.
So when a manufacturer has a claim, it can be devastating because after a claim, the premium may skyrocket and cause the business to fail since they can no longer be competitive as a result of this new huge liability policy premium increase.

Tort reform is useful in cases of abuse.

[Policy Limits]

I think that's another thread....in another section. Happy to talk about it there.

For this thread I guess it's do what works for you. I still say if u need to finance it u can't afford it.

[senior racer]

A very wise (and wealthy beyond measure) man once told me to never put your operating resources(cash) into depreciating assets. Borrowed money is cheap if you don't need it.

[fastmd]

I think that's another thread....in another section. Happy to talk about it there.

For this thread I guess it's do what works for you. I still say if u need to finance it u can't afford it.

The last part of your quote is just ignorant. An investment in my company has returned over 100% per year since 2009. It is the highest performing stock on the NYSE since that time also. Do a quick stock screen and see if you could figure it out and it's not a tech stock. The amount you paid in cash for those cars would be worth 8 figures if it was invested in my company over the past few years.

Just to put it in perspective, on my primary house I have a mortgage, my other 3 vacation homes I don't, my advisors at GS told me not to pay off my mortgage because the cost of capital is so low, and the roi in my other areas are so high. It all depends on your understanding of finance and comfort level. I will have paid a high 7 figure income tax bill for 2013 and still finance certain things because my bankers offer 1% on any vehicle/plane/boat/helicopter I want(that is our agreement) and I earn more than enough for a Gen V.

[HobokenViper]

The last part of your quote is just ignorant. An investment in my company has returned over 100% per year since 2009. It is the highest performing stock on the NYSE since that time also. Do a quick stock screen and see if you could figure it out and it's not a tech stock. The amount you paid in cash for those cars would be worth 8 figures if it was invested in my company over the past few years.

Just to put it in perspective, on my primary house I have a mortgage, my other 3 vacation homes I don't, my advisors at GS told me not to pay off my mortgage because the cost of capital is so low, and the roi in my other areas are so high. It all depends on your understanding of finance and comfort level. I will have paid a high 7 figure income tax bill for 2013 and still finance certain things because my bankers offer 1% on any vehicle/plane/boat/helicopter I want(that is our agreement) and I earn more than enough for a Gen V.

I completely agree with everything that you said here. This is the very logical and educated way to look at it, and makes a lot of sense. I think the other perspective is generally a more macho way of looking at it where someone just likes to own it outright because they can without taking into account all of the reasons not to pay cash in today's market. They also probably dont like having extra monthly payments, but who really does? No offense meant to anyone with that "macho" statement. I had thoughts of paying for each of my cars with cash or paying the loans off quickly, but why when the money comes so stupidly cheap (or free), and when I can use the extra money in my pocket to invest wisely and make back far greater returns than if I tied it all up in the iron sitting in my garage.

I think that the only people who can't afford a car are the people who will stretch themselves so thin financially to buy their dream car, be it Viper or whatever, and not have much money left afterwards to live comfortably from (ie: younger guys who live at home with their parents but drive a ridiculously expensive car that they wouldn't be able to afford if they were living on their own, people who take out a home equity loan to pay for a car, or people who have to sacrifice major things in their lives and/or sell off other assets in order to purchase the car of their dreams). Those are people who make themselves car poor and truly cannot afford it. I think the people who finance their cars are simply smart for doing it if for the $$$ reason of keeping more $$$ liquid to invest and play with.

That's my 2 sense.

[KRATEDISEASE]

The last part of your quote is just ignorant.

Lots of talk from " financial experts " .

Funny how " experts" always tout their expertise when doing well, yet are no longer experts when not doing well

Degenerate casino gamblers.......tout the fact that they won $200G last year at the casino, but conveniently leave out the fact that they lost $600G two years before....

Yet in his eyes " he is a winner" and an " expert"

Where are all those " expert" mortgage brokers that were experts back in 2007 these days ? I do not see them advising anyone anymore,

Only an ignorant person has the balls to call someone else ignorant when it comes to finance......... Because there is no "one way" to make money.

Financing a car is a personal decision. Believe it or not, many people do not do it because it is too much of a hassle to remember to send out a monthly payment.

[Policy Limits]

100% return in this economy? Was it high risk? Did Bernie Madoff sell it? LOL

There's no one answer; do what works for you. And clearly if you're earring more in the bank in interest than the interest rate on the loan, it makes sense to borrow. But last I checked interest rates in the bank are also very low, you need to tie up money for years in a CD to not even earn 3% and the market varies and isn't a guarantee. Financing a home is vastly different from financing a luxury such as a Viper. Never finance luxuries; IMO the mortgage has a great tax deduction component and at 2-3% fixed with no points is a no brainier. It's free money. There's a huge difference.

[KRATEDISEASE]

I doubt Warren Buffet finances his Cadillac. He does not have the time for such a petty purchase.

[KRATEDISEASE]

100% return in this economy? Was it high risk? Did Bernie Madoff sell it? LOL

There's no one answer; do what works for you. And clearly if you're earring more in the bank in interest than the interest rate on the loan, it makes sense to borrow. But last I checked interest rates in the bank are also very low, you need to tie up money for years in a CD to not even earn 3% and the market varies and isn't a guarantee. Financing a home is vastly different from financing a luxury such as a Viper. Never finance luxuries; IMO the mortgage has a great tax deduction component and at 2-3% fixed with no points is a no brainier. It's free money. There's a huge difference.

Don't start advising.................

[Policy Limits]

And btw fastmd, my spouse is also an MD and earns 30 pennies on my dollar LMFAO

[Hothonda]

I doubt Warren Buffet finances his Cadillac. He does not have the time for such a petty purchase.

"Don't ask a barber if you need a haircut"

-Warren Buffet

[KRATEDISEASE]

And btw fastmd, my spouse is also an MD and earns 30 pennies on my dollar LMFAO

And btw Policy Limits, my spouse is a stripper and she brings her stripper friends over all the time to the house for extra fun ...LMFAO

And btw Ploicy Limits, some retard who can hardly put a sentence together, but who can throw a football or basketball earns $10,000 for every one dollar you earn, and he is LHisFAO at you. ( we all live in glass houses)

P.S. (MD might stand for Medical Device, not Medical Doctor,... you are making assumptions.)

AND what does everyone think of the new LINOLN NAVIGATOR refresh? V6 turbo ?

[Policy Limits]

Damn u Kratey......hee hee

In the end there are Be's and there are Wanna Be's. Be a be. There are different avenues to take to purchase toys such as a viper; no right or wrong, only what works for you. Seven figure incomes are great...yawn...been doing that since I was 30...but u can't take it with u, without your health you have nothing and when you're dead, you're dead for a LONG time.

[Policy Limits]

And btw Policy Limits, my spouse is a stripper and she brings her stripper friends over all the time to the house for extra fun ...LMFAO

And btw Ploicy Limits, some retard who can hardly put a sentence together, but who can throw a football or basketball earns $10,000 for every one dollar you earn, and he is LHisFAO at you. ( we all live in glass houses)

P.S. (MD might stand for Medical Device, not Medical Doctor,... you are making assumptions.)

AND what does everyone think of the new LINOLN NAVIGATOR refresh? V6 turbo ?
Randy Moss is my neighbor, I hear what you're saying. Yes and never ASS-ume. It was almost as inappropriate as the name calling.

Lincoln Navigator? Wtf? Lol

[KRATEDISEASE]

Randy Moss is my neighbor, I hear what you're saying. Yes and never ASS-ume. It was almost as inappropriate as the name calling.

Lincoln Navigator? Wtf? Lol

Yes, I said LINCOLN NAVIGATOR.... ( otherwise known as the SS Titanic/Navigator) the last of the old school land yachts. Yah know, you turn the steering wheel with your pinky.

Got a refresh for 2015. V6 turbo replacing the V8

[Policy Limits]

Cool lets talk about it in the other rides section.

I've counseled many clients through Bankruptcy cases. When they initially incurred their debt and their payments, they thought it was a good idea too. Again, not saying all debt is bad. Secured creditors are better to have than unsecured ones as you have collateral. But then again, the repo man doesn't want to hear your story.

There is a saying that poor people work for money and wealthy people have their money work for them. Just don't end up on the wrong side of that equation or else.

[fastmd]

And btw fastmd, my spouse is also an MD and earns 30 pennies on my dollar LMFAO

Look, it's clear you are proud of yourself and you should be for your accomplishments. However, humility is a virtue and I don't understand why you need to criticize people(many viper owner's) that may be/haved financed their viper.

Correct, I am an MD, but you still haven't figured out my company, which would benefit your wife's earning potential. If you want to beat chests come into my world of private jets, your small overpayment for you gen V would cover my daily landing fees.

One last thing, a mortgage over a million dollars is not tax deductible, because you so graciously decided to give out financial advice :)

[Policy Limits]

No criticism just opinion. They didn't teach the first amendment in medical school?

Have fun in your private jet. I'm not too keen on heights so I purchased Bentley, Lamborghini, Maserati and Yes the Viper. To each his own.

No financial advice here. No financial expert but I've handled Bankruptcy cases for clients who had debt that they thought it was a great idea to incur at the time of incurring it. Some clients have been doctors. Be well.

[HobokenViper]

Why must every thread that starts with a debate topic turn for the worse with name calling, pointing fingers, putting down others, and beating chests as to who makes the most money? It always seems to happen by the third page or so, and spirals downward from there. Ever notice that? I have, and it's getting pretty old after the 328th time.......

I'm pretty sure we all at least do fairly well for ourselves if we own a Viper. But who cares how much money anyone on here earns? Makes no difference to my life to hear someone boast that they make 1,000 times more than the guy that they are arguing with. And I'm pretty sure I know how those boasts are intended, but it really comes across the wrong way on here. Just re-read some of these posts and I think you will all agree afterwards. I'm sure most of us could boast or brag about our things or money, but why should we? To see who has the biggest Schwartz? LOL

By the way, one thing I wanted to say to a point Kratedisease made above saying that most people don't like having to remember writing a monthly check for their car payments............most people nowadays do their banking online, have been for many years. Car payments are among the simplest to set up and manage because they always stay the same and you just have to set them up for an automatic payment at a certain date every month. If you can use a computer and have the Internet (which I assume you do if you have a Viper and post on here very regularly), then you shouldn't have to worry about remembering to cut a monthly check every month holding you back from financing a car.

[Policy Limits]

Good point. I'm the OP and that wasn't my intention at all; was just looking for different perspectives until some new guy with only a handful of posts started name calling. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.

Another good point was electronic billing. Print is dying rapidly. I scoop the telephone book up off my driveway and immediately toss it in the recycle bin; the post office recently raised rates and has expressed an intention to close days down. Technology is changing most industries. Speaking of Bankruptcy, Federal Courts have had electronic filing for years now and if you mailed them a piece of paper, they would send it back to you as they are paperless. What % of people use on line billing?

[IndyRon]

And btw fastmd, my spouse is also an MD and earns 30 pennies on my dollar LMFAO

Ok, I'll play.

If this is true, I'm really surprised at your attitude towards tort reform as it applies to the medical field. Obviously, as you stated above you make more than her and everyone believes in the system that is rewarding them financially....even prostitutes and Madoff, but somewhere deep down inside, you must understand (if you are aware of this) that a system that allows patients to sue any physician with or without grounds and forces that physician to then carry that mark on their medical record for life even if the case was found to be completely baseless and was thrown out is flawed. Each and every job that they apply for and each set of privileges at hospitals now requires an explanation as to that instance, remaining as a blemish on your professional record for life, even though it was thrown out.

Patients naturally have emotional investment in their healthcare.....seems obvious, but is often overlooked. Whether it is the desire to come through surgery successfully or to have an uneventful delivery which yields a child that ultimately is the next brilliant mind 20 years down the road. When that expectation is not met and something goes wrong or something is already wrong, sometimes there is a medical mistake, but more often statistically, there is just a bad outcome that can't be fully explained but the patient needs someone to blame for their child having a learning disability or birth defect, or them developing a post-op wound infection. It must of been an egregious mistake on the part of the MD, right? You have to blame someone is how the human mind works.

On top of that and in regards to caps on lawsuits, how do we put a price on human life? Is it worth 1 million? 2 million, 10 million? Is it worth 100k per year lost in estimated life expectancy? If my wife were killed in a medical accident (god forbid) would it make it better if I were awarded 7.5 million vs. 4.3 million? No. Is it worse if its a woman or child vs. a man? All we know for a fact is that states that have no or limited caps have much higher costs of practice and therefore pass those costs in the form of malpractice insurance on to the hospitals and systems and ultimately the patients. Not to mention the exodus of medical talent from these states to states that have some sort of limitations on these suits.

How you can rely on the emotional wrong felt by a group (jury) of your so-called "peers" (misnomer) to determine a monetary value on life is just capricious and whimsical.

[Policy Limits]

Again, this is another thread that would be appropriate in another section. No one is above the law. I've sued lawyers.

Back to cars.

[slitherv10]

I think that's another thread....in another section. Happy to talk about it there.

For this thread I guess it's do what works for you. I still say if u need to finance it u can't afford it.

That^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ would depend on what your financing. If your paying cash for a 150,000 dollar car, with current low interest rates, I think you would be making a mistake. Paying cash for a "TOY" worth up to @50000 may be something to consider, but putting your money in something that is sure to lose you money is , to me anyway, a bad way of giving out your hard earned money.
When I invest that sort of amounts, I use to make me money or ventures that will make me money, not lose money. Stocks, bonds, mutual funds, real estate etc is places I would be putting cash towards before I lay it down for a pleasure vehicle.
That's just my take. I am sure a lot of you have done otherwise. from buying through lines of credit to mortgaging your homes to buy your luxury toys. Each to their own.
I for one pay cash for my Toys as they usually don't end up costing me more than 70K. I buy when things bottom out. I am not a " have to have the newest and best thing" kinda guy, nor am I a "have to have the best and baddest. I think their is enjoyment to be found without having to break the bank or putting your money in places that it is sure to lose as soon as you drive 10ft.
Now, if you have money to burn, then all the power to you. Last time I checked though, I don't think most Lawyers or doctors make enough income to justify spending it aimlessly. Both earn their money with hard work and long hours and giving it away for losses each and every time is irresponsible to me. Something those two professions
certainly don't condone

[ViperSmith]

fastmd shot you a private message

[Policy Limits]

I started a new thread on Tort Reform in the Fun & Games section.

For the record, I've had loans in my life.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Look, it's clear you are proud of yourself and you should be for your accomplishments. However, humility is a virtue and I don't understand why you need to criticize people(many viper owner's) that may be/haved financed their viper.

Correct, I am an MD, but you still haven't figured out my company, which would benefit your wife's earning potential. If you want to beat chests come into my world of private jets, your small overpayment for you gen V would cover my daily landing fees.

One last thing, a mortgage over a million dollars is not tax deductible, because you so graciously decided to give out financial advice :)

Oh boy, here we go.... a Lawyer and a MD going at it over who has the bigger dick ( can I say that here ? penis-genitalia-man junk ?)

SWOLLEN EGOS = small penis

- - - Updated - - -


No criticism just opinion. They didn't teach the first amendment in medical school?

Have fun in your private jet. I'm not too keen on heights so I purchased Bentley, Lamborghini, Maserati and Yes the Viper. To each his own.

No financial advice here. No financial expert but I've handled Bankruptcy cases for clients who had debt that they thought it was a great idea to incur at the time of incurring it. Some clients have been doctors. Be well.

Oh boy, here we go.... a Lawyer and a MD going at it over who has the bigger dick ( can I say that here ? penis-genitalia-man junk ?)

SWOLLEN EGOS = small penis

[KRATEDISEASE]

Good point. I'm the OP and that wasn't my intention at all; was just looking for different perspectives until some new guy with only a handful of posts started name calling. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.

Another good point was electronic billing. Print is dying rapidly. I scoop the telephone book up off my driveway and immediately toss it in the recycle bin; the post office recently raised rates and has expressed an intention to close days down. Technology is changing most industries. Speaking of Bankruptcy, Federal Courts have had electronic filing for years now and if you mailed them a piece of paper, they would send it back to you as they are paperless. What % of people use on line billing?

To be fair, you degraded his profession first..... only saying.

- - - Updated - - -


Again, this is another thread that would be appropriate in another section. No one is above the law. I've sued lawyers.

Back to cars.

Does that make you cannibalistic ? like doggie eat doggie ?

[KRATEDISEASE]

fastmd shot you a private message


Whats with all the private messages ??? lets battle in public..... unless everyone is afraid of catching Krate-disease...

touche

[KRATEDISEASE]

Ok, I'll play.

If this is true, I'm really surprised at your attitude towards tort reform as it applies to the medical field. Obviously, as you stated above you make more than her and everyone believes in the system that is rewarding them financially....even prostitutes and Madoff, but somewhere deep down inside, you must understand (if you are aware of this) that a system that allows patients to sue any physician with or without grounds and forces that physician to then carry that mark on their medical record for life even if the case was found to be completely baseless and was thrown out is flawed. Each and every job that they apply for and each set of privileges at hospitals now requires an explanation as to that instance, remaining as a blemish on your professional record for life, even though it was thrown out.

Patients naturally have emotional investment in their healthcare.....seems obvious, but is often overlooked. Whether it is the desire to come through surgery successfully or to have an uneventful delivery which yields a child that ultimately is the next brilliant mind 20 years down the road. When that expectation is not met and something goes wrong or something is already wrong, sometimes there is a medical mistake, but more often statistically, there is just a bad outcome that can't be fully explained but the patient needs someone to blame for their child having a learning disability or birth defect, or them developing a post-op wound infection. It must of been an egregious mistake on the part of the MD, right? You have to blame someone is how the human mind works.

On top of that and in regards to caps on lawsuits, how do we put a price on human life? Is it worth 1 million? 2 million, 10 million? Is it worth 100k per year lost in estimated life expectancy? If my wife were killed in a medical accident (god forbid) would it make it better if I were awarded 7.5 million vs. 4.3 million? No. Is it worse if its a woman or child vs. a man? All we know for a fact is that states that have no or limited caps have much higher costs of practice and therefore pass those costs in the form of malpractice insurance on to the hospitals and systems and ultimately the patients. Not to mention the exodus of medical talent from these states to states that have some sort of limitations on these suits.

How you can rely on the emotional wrong felt by a group (jury) of your so-called "peers" (misnomer) to determine a monetary value on life is just capricious and whimsical.

ONLY PROBLEM is that an Attorney cannot sue a doctor UNLESS another doctor testifies against the doctor being sued.

So in actuality, it is dog eat dog when a expert witness medical doctor states in his/her opinion that the defendant doctor being sued had provided care " below the standard of care"

No patient can sue a doctor because they got worse. They can only sue a doctor if the care given was below the standard of care that would be given by every other doctor.

So that means that Policy Limits cannot make a frivolous clam in medical malpractice UNLESS a looser MD is willing to testify against his fellow MD that the care was below the standard, but the defense would also rebut that with their own defense expert witnesses.

Any other questions that anyone may have about, strippers, legal affairs, finance, penis enlargement.... just feel free to ask me

[slitherv10]

ONLY PROBLEM is that an Attorney cannot sue a doctor UNLESS another doctor testifies against the doctor being sued.

So in actuality, it is dog eat dog when a expert witness medical doctor states in his/her opinion that the defendant doctor being sued had provided care " below the standard of care"

No patient can sue a doctor because they got worse. They can only sue a doctor if the care given was below the standard of care that would be given by every other doctor.

So that means that Policy Limits cannot make a frivolous clam in medical malpractice UNLESS a looser MD is willing to testify against his fellow MD that the care was below the standard, but the defense would also rebut that with their own defense expert witnesses.

Any other questions that anyone may have about, strippers, legal affairs, finance, penis enlargement.... just feel free to ask me

All of those as they are all related....

If go out with a stripper(strippers) because I can (penis enlargement) and my wife finds out and sues me(legal affair) for everything I have (finance),

can I plead that the doctor that gave me the enlargement told me that I can get any stripper I want with one?

[KRATEDISEASE]

All of those as they are all related....

If go out with a stripper(strippers) because I can (penis enlargement) and my wife finds out and sues me(legal affair) for everything I have (finance),

can I plead that the doctor that gave me the enlargement told me that I can get any stripper I want with one?

The answer is quite complex, grasshopper.

First off, strippers are interested more in wallet enlargement and if you can make it rain. They tend not to be interested in the size of your man-junk as in as much as they are obsessed with size of your bills in your wallet. ( but some nose candy or Rx painkillers are also helpful)

second, there is no sex in the champagne room.so......

third, you only went out with the stripper, you never said you touched the stripper, so your wife has no grounds for divorce, besides you were drunk.

fourth, The MD that did the enlargement and told you that you will get strippers is a frickin liar.

fifth, after all this settles out, you wife will make up with you now that she knows your new nick name is horse dick.

sixth, it is advantageous to finance your Viper purchase if you have the cash on hand. You can always pay it off with the cash on hand, and if you invest CONSERVATIVELY, you should be ahead of the game.
Do not finance your Viper if you do not have the cash on hand or cannot access or liquidate an investment easily to pay off the loan. But then again, you could always sell the Viper for the balance of the loan should you get jammed up. No easy answers.

[Policy Limits]

Ok mods as OP I have no objection to closing the thread if its deemed appropriate.

[KRATEDISEASE]

An investment in my company has returned over 100% per year since 2009. It is the highest performing stock on the NYSE since that time also. Do a quick stock screen and see if you could figure it out and it's not a tech stock.


OK, I could not find the company that you speak of that you own. Can you kindly let me know the name of it ?

I am interested in learning more about a company that returned 100% EACH year since 2009. ( total return of 500%)

by the way, how does it exactly return 100% each year and not 97% one year and 126% the next year, and 78 % the year next ?

Its kind of cool how it is 100% each and every year. Only Madoff was that consistant in his returns.

- - - Updated - - -


Ok mods as OP I have no objection to closing the thread if its deemed appropriate.

not yet please......last licks

[HobokenViper]

Kratedisease - please stop. The back and forth before was painful enough to read, but you have just taken it exponentially further and are frankly making a joke of yourself publicly on the forum. Please stop.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Kratedisease - please stop. The back and forth before was painful enough to read, but you have just taken it exponentially further and are frankly making a joke of yourself publicly on the forum. Please stop.

Your criticism of me is accepted.

How am I am making a joke of myself ?

OOps, I thought this was posted in fun and games....

Hoboken, you take this forum too seriously.

Lets meet up tonight at Bada Bing in NJ for some drinks and eye candy..... my wife is working there tonight.

[HobokenViper]

Not criticizing you, trying to help you to stop making a fool of yourself. But it seems like that might be your intention? I'm not sure anymore.....

Do you honestly read what you write after you write it? In the beginning you had good points and made sense, but the last couple pages of posts are filled with nonsensical diatribes that totally discredit anything positive you may have said before, and no they are not funny in the "Haha" kind of way that I think you intend them to be. Not to mention you have completely gone overboard with the amount of ridiculous responses. It's beyond painful at this point.....

I'll say it again, please stop.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Not criticizing you, trying to help you to stop making a fool of yourself. But it seems like that might be your intention? I'm not sure anymore.....

Do you honestly read what you write after you write it? In the beginning you had good points and made sense, but the last couple pages of posts are filled with nonsensical diatribes that totally discredit anything positive you may have said before. Not to mention you have completely gone overboard with the amount of ridiculous responses. It's beyond painful at this point.....

I'll say it again, please stop.

Only a person of high self esteem and intelligence can make fun of themselves. Those who are insecure need to be taken seriously to have self worth.

I am waiting for a stock tip about a company that has grown 100% each year since 2009.

[HobokenViper]

Only a person of high self esteem and intelligence can make fun of themselves. Those who are insecure need to be taken seriously to have self worth.

I am waiting for a stock tip about a company that has grown 100% each year since 2009.

While I completely agree with what you just wrote above, that's not what you are doing. You are not making fun of yourself.......you are making yourself look like you are a little bit out of your mind.....

[fastmd]

OK, I could not find the company that you speak of that you own. Can you kindly let me know the name of it ?

I am interested in learning more about a company that returned 100% EACH year since 2009. ( total return of 500%)

by the way, how does it exactly return 100% each year and not 97% one year and 126% the next year, and 78 % the year next ?

Its kind of cool how it is 100% each and every year. Only Madoff was that consistant in his returns.

- - - Updated - - -



not yet please......last licks

Not a stock tip, here is the ticker VRX. Pull up a chart, well over a 1000%. Pull up a 5yr chart and see for yourself. Won't make any other comments except sometimes it's does pay to finance if you have access to capital and the cost is low.

[ViperSmith]

Without financing, I doubt the high end car market would be what it is today. People living beyond their means has created the glut of awesome cars we have today...

[KRATEDISEASE]

While I completely agree with what you just wrote above, that's not what you are doing. You are not making fun of yourself.......you are making yourself look like you are a little bit out of your mind and possibly having a manic episode.....

Mr. Hoboken, no offense intended and I am not looking for a confrontation but you state that 1) I appear out of my mind and 2) I am possibly having a manic episode.

Are you a qualified medical psychiatrist or psychological professional that has the education in this area to make such diagnosis ?

Additionally, can you please Specifically indicate what statements I have made here would indicate such diagnosis.

If you cannot, then you are just name calling, which goes beyond your criticism of me, which I will actually accept.

I am not looking to start a fight, just defending my posts ( am not rescinding them !!)

And by the way, i think the TA Viper looks better in black than orange.....what do you think ?

[HobokenViper]

Mr. Hoboken, no offense intended and I am not looking for a confrontation but you state that 1) I appear out of my mind and 2) I am possibly having a manic episode.

Are you a qualified medical psychiatrist or psychological professional that has the education in this area to make such diagnosis ?

Additionally, can you please Specifically indicate what statements I have made here would indicate such diagnosis.

If you cannot, then you are just name calling, which goes beyond your criticism of me, which I will actually accept.

I am not looking to start a fight, just defending my posts ( am not rescinding them !!)

And by the way, i think the TA Viper looks better in black than orange.....what do you think ?

Mr K-disease, I'm not looking for a confrontation either as I've stated before. I'm sure you are not a bad guy, but yes, you have completely hijacked this thread (and many others from my memory on the VCA), and it usually always goes the same way when it happens.

Now you asked this question, so I'm going to answer it. I myself am not a qualified professional to diagnose medical problems, but I happen to be married to a woman that is. She works with adults with mental illness with an Axis 1 diagnosis on a daily basis. I have showed her a handful of your diatribes on different threads before, including this one, and her exact reaction today was, "OMG, there is something seriously wrong with this guy, he is completely having a manic episode and seems to be a bit off socially as well." She had similar responses when reading a selection of your past thread hijackings.

I'm not name calling by any means, if anything I support people with issues like this. This was why I was first just politely asking you to please stop doing what you were doing as you were really embarrassing yourself in my honest opinion and further derailing this already messed up thread. It was painful to keep reading your increasingly nonsense filled flurry of posts and rants about every single post where others were arguing with each other or referencing to you. It's not my business if you do actually suffer from an issue or not, and I'm sure you are a smart and decent guy, but it certainly sometimes comes across on here as if you do have some issues of some sort. I hope you can see that if you go back and re-read a lot of what you have written in the past, and if you don't care, well then.........I don't know what to say except that I have said my piece and tried to help you, and will just ignore from now on.

[HobokenViper]

Oh, and I don't take this forum too seriously at all. Just gets incredibly annoying when an interesting thread topic ends up being turned into name calling fights, my "Schwartz" is bigger than yours battles, and hijackers who just start creating chaos and cause the thread to be closed.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Mr K-disease, I'm not looking for a confrontation either as I've stated before. I'm sure you are not a bad guy, but yes, you have completely hijacked this thread (and many others from my memory on the VCA), and it usually always goes the same way when it happens.

Now you asked this question, so I'm going to answer it. I myself am not a qualified professional to diagnose medical problems, but I happen to be married to a woman that is. She works with adults with mental illness with an Axis 1 diagnosis on a daily basis, and I am familiar with people suffering from those conditions through her and through volunteering on occasion to help the people she works with as well. I have showed her a handful of your diatribes on different threads before, including this one, and her exact reaction today was, "OMG, there is something seriously wrong with this guy, he is completely having a manic episode and seems to be a bit off socially as well." She had similar responses when reading a selection of your past thread hijackings.

I'm not name calling by any means, if anything I support people with issues like this. This was why I was first just politely asking you to please stop doing what you were doing as you were really embarrassing yourself in my honest opinion and further derailing this already messed up thread. It was painful to keep reading your increasingly nonsense filled flurry of posts and rants about every single post where others were arguing with each other or referencing to you. It's not my business if you do actually suffer from a problem or not, and I'm sure you are a smart and decent guy, but it certainly comes across on here as if you do have some issues of some sort. I hope you can see that if you go back and re-read a lot of what you have written in the past, and if you don't care, well then.........I don't know what to say except that I have said my piece and tried to help you, and will just ignore from now on.

Thank you.

1) Although I disagree that I have " high jacked" this thread, I will agree and concede that I have posted off topic and that I enjoy the debate.

2) I am sorry and no offense to your wife, but a persons REACTION to my threads or posts does not qualify that person to make a medical diagnosis. No heath professional can screen a patient for mental illness or any other mental heath issue from simply reading their posts without interviewing that person face to face first. Your wife's REACTION or your REACTION to my posts is not confirmation of any diagnosis or issue on MY part .

3) Additionally, with out looking to instigate you, you must understand that how are you not sure that it is YOU that has the "issue". Remember, YOU are the one having the reaction to what you are reading. I myself am NOT having a reaction to anything that you ever posted or wrote. I surely am not affected, upset, or having a reaction to your written words, yet you admit that YOU are having a reaction to my words written here. Then in that case, is it not true that it is YOU that is reacting to my written words, and as such that YOU are experiencing an episode or an "issue" or mental aberration ? I am NOT pointing fingers, just speculating based upon the facts presented.

If you feel that you are perfectly sane and do not suffer from any issues, then surely the condition or situation is nothing more than a simple disagreement.

[HobokenViper]

Krate - to your #2, There is clearly no diagnosis, just a strong hunch based on many previous threads that you have posted on before including this one.

And to your #3, I'm not the one who posts tons of off topic and ridiculous statements on here regularly. I'm just the one who finds them painful and annoying to read. I know I'm not alone as I have seen MANY others feel the same way about you on here and the VCA forum in the past when you stirred up your "off topic debates".

And on that note, lets just agree to disagree and move on. I think this thread is effectively killed off by now, so might as well end it here.

[Anonymous]

This is the biggest waste of time I ever spent on this forum yet !congratulation

[Policy Limits]

I've already asked as OP that the thread be closed; request renewed unless there's an objection.

[HobokenViper]

Agreed and agreed

[KRATEDISEASE]

Krate - to your #2, There is clearly no diagnosis, just a strong hunch based on many previous threads that you have posted on before including this one.

And to your #3, I'm not the one who posts tons of off topic and ridiculous statements on here regularly. I'm just the one who finds them painful and annoying to read. I know I'm not alone as I have seen MANY others feel the same way about you on here and the VCA forum in the past when you stirred up your "off topic debates".

You have conceded to point #2. and to that, it is important to learn that it is Ok to disagree but not to say that anyone has an "issue" or to degrade them if you disagree.

Next time just point out that I am off topic and I myself will get out of the thread.

I will repost my last line from my previous post ...... If you feel that you are perfectly sane and do not suffer from any issues, then surely the condition or situation is nothing more than a simple disagreement.

LETS CLOSE THIS THREAD

[johniew398]

Good point. I'm the OP and that wasn't my intention at all; was just looking for different perspectives until some new guy with only a handful of posts started name calling. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.

Another good point was electronic billing. Print is dying rapidly. I scoop the telephone book up off my driveway and immediately toss it in the recycle bin; the post office recently raised rates and has expressed an intention to close days down. Technology is changing most industries. Speaking of Bankruptcy, Federal Courts have had electronic filing for years now and if you mailed them a piece of paper, they would send it back to you as they are paperless. What % of people use on line billing?

I use on-line billing for everything. What I don't do is use the automatic withdrawals/payments. I want to see the bill, on-line and then pay with a credit car or bank debit.

[Bitten]

IBTL

:stickmen_burningsti