Max brake pad thickness for 2014 TA1 0

[sharmut]

Before I pull the rotors off to take measurements, wondering if anyone knew whether the 2014 TA Brembo Calipers would accommodate a 18mm(includes backing plate) thick brake pad, assuming rotor thickness at 32mm?

Trying to find alternate replacements to the Brembo TA "wide annulus" rotors. One option is to use AP-Racing's j-hook rotors, but requires a shorter pad size due to hat diameter being larger. The dimensions of the Raybestos R1001 are 131.6mm X 77.3mm. The R780 at 131.6mm X 67.1mm would work with the AP rotors, but are normally 18mm thick, unless special order the R780A at 15mm. Do not know the math behind the braking difference with having a shorter pad (-10.2mm) in clamping force and coefficient. Perhaps the lighter AP rotors can help make up some of that delta.
Also wondering if the 18mm thickness matters in terms of how the brakes felt on-track, do you loose firmness and modulation.

The replacement cost is significantly less for the AP j-hook rotors, readily available, plus can be ordered burnished. If they perform equally and last 14 track days, equalling the OE Brembos, it' win at less than 2/3rd the cost(all-in).

[sadil]

Sub'd. Interested in options as well.

[sharmut]

Measured the front right (passenger) caliper's piston gap. At 18mm (pad) and 32mm(rotor) it would need at least 68mm.

The pic below at 68.28mm puts the pads midway to the piston seal. Any thoughts on whether the seal pressed further in would be ok? Or could that cause more binding and effect how well the piston moves and possibly create more knock-backs?

I suppose as the brake usage increases therefore reducing the pad thickness it becomes a non-issue. Wonder if 1 HPDE (5-6 sessions at 20mins) event would be enough to drop 2mm on each side of the pads.

28099

[sadil]

I wanted to try the raybestos 47/45 combo that so many have found success with. I was at the track yesterday and the lack of bite on the TA rotors is not confidence inspiring. I haven’t changed my brake fluid also and the brakes come on but never with initial bite and I have really get on the pedal. Was hoping new fluid and pads give me more feedback and response.

What is theideal brake pad thickness on TA rotors? I was following your other thread and you were discussing that eventually 18mm was too wide and you chose to go with 16 mm? I went to the Randall Race Part’s website and they are showing their pad thickness is only 15 mm.

https://randallraceparts.com/product/r1001-15/

Curious on what size to get?

[Bruce H.]

Your stock TA rotors were shot after only 14 days? In what way...wore thin and slots were too shallow, turned blue, pulsing?

[sharmut]

Your stock TA rotors were shot after only 14 days? In what way...wore thin and slots were too shallow, turned blue, pulsing?

I made the mistake of resurfacing them and dropped the disc thickness to a little over 31mm. They began to show heat stress cracks shortly after that. I suspect they can still be used, but already had the ap-racing sitting on the shelf and decided to use them. I've switch to the VE BBK package in June with ST47 all around. Great package, the increase in torque is noticeably better.
All this is for not, put a deposit on a low mileage 2016 ACR-E today. It has a few track mods, camber shims, ross murray roll-bar and fire extinguisher system. Wasn't sure my back can handle 222 mile trip in the ACR, hoping my friend will have time in the next couple of weeks to trailer it back.

[Bruce H.]

Well congratulations on your purchase!

I've had great life out of my TA rotors. Track friends can't get over how long both stock and ST45/43 pads and stock rotors have lasted. I credit that with brief but very aggressive threshold braking. Natural survival instinct is to over-brake, brake when not necessary and trail-brake more than necessary. I ask some friends why they brake early and when not necessary but breaking that comforting habit seems to be quite the challenge.

Are you keeping the TA for the street? Good luck with the new car!

Bruce

[sadil]

Guys what about my question!!!! Loll I am trying to buy pads!

[Bruce H.]

I would say that the ST47/45 pads aren't your problem but more likely your stock brake fluid that can't even keep up with the stock pads! Always address the weakest issue first. CASTROL SRF REACT is excellent as is Motul 600 according to others here. Also install front ACR brake ducts. That will be a braking animal unless you've got some wierd issue.

[ViperGeorge]

I wanted to try the raybestos 47/45 combo that so many have found success with. I was at the track yesterday and the lack of bite on the TA rotors is not confidence inspiring. I haven’t changed my brake fluid also and the brakes come on but never with initial bite and I have really get on the pedal. Was hoping new fluid and pads give me more feedback and response.

What is theideal brake pad thickness on TA rotors? I was following your other thread and you were discussing that eventually 18mm was too wide and you chose to go with 16 mm? I went to the Randall Race Part’s website and they are showing their pad thickness is only 15 mm.

https://randallraceparts.com/product/r1001-15/

Curious on what size to get?

Did you follow Porterfield's bed in procedure? I use the Racing Brakes replacements for the TA rotors. Nice pieces.

[sharmut]

Well congratulations on your purchase!
Are you keeping the TA for the street? Good luck with the new car!
Bruce

Thank you, at the moment not sure what to do with the TA. Will know more in September after a couple of days on the track and whether I can live the ACR-E suspension for occasional street use.

@sadil, switch the brake fluid to Motul or SRF and use the ST47/45/43 pads to start. From my experience, it didn't really change the initial bite much, instead the benefit were more consistent brake behavior and high thermal capacity.
If you are still not satisfied with the bite, you need to look at increasing brake torque, 380mm disc and 6-piston calipers, ie VE Stoptech BBK. Personally I would not use them on track with the SW2 wheels, the tolerance between the caliper and inner barrel is too close in my opinion.

[sadil]

Thank you, at the moment not sure what to do with the TA. Will know more in September after a couple of days on the track and whether I can live the ACR-E suspension for occasional street use.

@sadil, switch the brake fluid to Motul or SRF and use the ST47/45/43 pads to start. From my experience, it didn't really change the initial bite much, instead the benefit were more consistent brake behavior and high thermal capacity.
If you are still not satisfied with the bite, you need to look at increasing brake torque, 380mm disc and 6-piston calipers, ie VE Stoptech BBK. Personally I would not use them on track with the SW2 wheels, the tolerance between the caliper and inner barrel is too close in my opinion.

What is the gap left over when trying to run the VE kit with SW2s? I am sure I saw Ralph running that on the track.

[sharmut]

What is the gap left over when trying to run the VE kit with SW2s? I am sure I saw Ralph running that on the track.

I dont recall the exact measurements, but it was very close from the outer edge of the ST60 caliper and the wheel barrel. The inner wheel barrel tapers out as you move further away from the front. A wheel spacer would move the wheel further away from the caliper and increase the clearance. I don't want to bash the SW2, but will add if you drop them off track and feel you've impacted anything substantial, make sure you check their run out before going back out.

Before you commit, use the Stoptech template to confirm tolerance. Select the 380mm rotor size.
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/bbk-wheel-fitment-templates

[sadil]

Thanks for the advice. My original message was also incorrectly written.

It makes it sound like I already tried the Raybestos pads on the track which is incorrect.

I am using stock TA pads, stock factory fluid, and running Pilot Super Sport tires with 8500ish miles on them

I will try some new brake fluid first, and then will follow with new tires.

[sharmut]

You can also look into increasing the air flow into the pads. The ACR brake duct, like Bruce mentioned, or something like the orange duct in the post below would be more effective. I assume it's attached to the front brake duct in the bumper and routes air directly to the caliper.
https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/17023-Viper-Exchange-BBK-Review

[Thawk97]

Resurrecting this thread because I have the same question and didn't see much info here:

I ordered some raybestos pads and they are 18mm which BARELY fit in stock SRT calipers. I'm curious if having the pistons pushed back to max and just barely getting an 18mm pad squeezed in is going to cause problems or if they really should be shaved to something like 16mm. I don't believe the backing plate is touching the dust boots, but it's very close with the caliper pistons totally retracted.

Anyone have input?

[speedtactics]

I'm trying to figure out why rotors only last 14 track days? I have had my rotors on my TA 2.0 equipped Viper. I have been tracking the car very aggressively, not on street tires, but on slicks. I have not changed the rotors in more than three years of tracking and street driving. I put 7500 miles on it in the last three years and I would say 40% or more is track miles. I use stock brembo pads on the wide annulus rotor that came stock on the car. The "Bite" problem you are referring to will be cured by pads. Fluid will help with fade and overheating but will not change the bite. The rotor is iron and will not change the bite. ST43 raybestos pads will cure the problem.
Also you may want to get off street tires if you are using them for the track and expect any real performance since the tires are actually a big factor in braking.

[pokeyl]

Cost is low and rotors are light!
https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/29595-DBA5000-rotors-with-TA-pads