ACR with a sequential gearbox

[BlueAdder]

I was wondering if that was an idea anyone ever entertained.
A couple of weekends ago, I drove to Vegas to get together with my friend and we decided to go to SpeedVegas on the Saturday morning.
That was pretty fun and we both got the same package: The Italian Face-off. What it is are 5 laps in a Huracan and 5 laps in a 458 Italia.

Both cars come with a sequential gearbox or at least something really close to it and the paddle shifters are awesome once you get a hang of it. I hit the rev limiter in the Ferrari a few times but other than that, I loved it. At the end, my friend asked me which car I preferred and I had to go with the 458. The Huracan is fun but it's basically a VW with an Italian skin. That being said, they are super reliable.

He also asked me which I preferred driving between those Italians and the ACR and obviously I said: The Snake.
That got me thinking, the Viper is a blast to drive and you have to man-handle it somewhat (no offense to lady snake owners) while the two Italians are more finesse type of cars. Still, I could totally see an ACR with paddle shifters because I would think that with that stuff, it would break its own records at those 13 tracks. Pipe dream probably though :D

Note: I mentioned the ACR and not the Viper just because that's what I drive and a paddle shifter would make more sense on a car that gets tracked heavily, but a TA would also benefit from that.

[Smokin]

There are a few Gen V ACR's that have been outfitted with good engine builds along with sequential gear boxes.

[BlueAdder]

Do we know what sort of gearbox those are? Qaife or something else?
For me, it's more of a long term project because I'm not modding the car at all until the drive train warranty runs out but I'm curious about that stuff.

[Arizona Vipers]

I had one in my car for awhile, it's awesome, but you need Motec to control the no-lift-shifts etc.
Calvo did mine, they use PPG- http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/page.asp?productid=137 which utilizes your factory transmission case.

[kriskyk]

I had one in my car for awhile, it's awesome, but you need Motec to control the no-lift-shifts etc.
Calvo did mine, they use PPG- http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/page.asp?productid=137 which utilizes your factory transmission case.

Had? Why did you get rid of it?

I was thinking that a really close ratio sequential gearbox with flappy padddles would really transform the overall driving experience

With Motec controlling everything how was the wear and tear on the dog engagements?

Is it daily drivable or does the box need to be serviced quite frequently?

[RedTanRT/10]

Sequential's are great but pretty pricey!!!

I'm not sure how much AZ spent on his PPG set up??

A Quaife for a viper is something like $13k plus another $1k for the bellhosing

I have an EMCO in my comp coupe, they run $20k plus

The only paddle set up I've seen in a viper is an "Xtrac" in the GTSR race car (also in the C7R race cars). I would imagine they are as high or higher than EMCO prices.

[kriskyk]

I thought I recalled a post from Calvo eluding to around $18k and mentioned paddles were an option. Typically from what II've read is that dog boxes require frequent service intervals for the dog engagements (read as expensive) however with motec controlling every thing I wonder if that's no longer the case

[uberpube]

Just going to a dogbox with proper close ratio's matched to the engine completely transformed my Rx7 on the track, it went from merely keeping pace with some of Porsche's finest to completely annihilating them on the straights.. They still out braked and out turned me though and owned me in the corners :(...
The Quaife I have behind my 3 rotor was actually meant for a Viper, I changed the input shaft to mate it to the Mazda... There is a paddle setup for the quaife from a 3rd party supplier. The only hard part is the output shaft is weird, they don't match to anything thats normal in North America.. The driveshaft for the Rx7 was put together with a Ford Cortina flange mated to a hyundai yoke with a conversion joint. Took about 3 weeks of parts shopping to match the spline.

[BlueAdder]

Right, they are expensive bits. Originally when Qaife made the 1st sequential box for the Lotus Elise it was close to $10K but it dropped eventually but it was still at least $7K.

[Nambo]

I thought I recalled a post from Calvo eluding to around $18k and mentioned paddles were an option. Typically from what II've read is that dog boxes require frequent service intervals for the dog engagements (read as expensive) however with motec controlling every thing I wonder if that's no longer the case

I don't believe that the 18k covers the Motec and tuning. I think you are looking at another 20k on top of the cost of the tranny.

[Racingswh]

We were considering seriously back in 2012 putting an Emco sequential in the 2008 Gen IV ACR but did not and the car was sold. At the time it was a straight swap without any electronics needed. Slight breathe off the throttle for upshifts and clutch for downshifts and rev matching same as the Barber Dodge cars I raced and am used to. 37 different ratio options as I recall. Could gear it optimally for all the tracks we frequent and keep top speed to 170 max so the car would never fall on it's face like it did in 5th even with the 2010 box in it and like the ACR-E does now. Emco Box was 23k plus tax at that time.

http://www.emcogears.com/dv46/

I won't do one in the ACR simply because I do not want to change the car in any way other than wheels, brake pads and rotors.

I am going to do one eventually in my Wife's C6Z.

http://www.emcogears.com/cg46/

[kriskyk]

I don't believe that the 18k covers the Motec and tuning. I think you are looking at another 20k on top of the cost of the tranny.

Say what ~$40k!? Guess you have to pay to play....

I was actually considering this, but at that price point I could never bring myself to actually cut check for this

I'll reach out and find out for sure

[Nambo]

Say what ~$40k!? Guess you have to pay to play....

I was actually considering this, but at that price point I could never bring myself to actually cut check for this

I'll reach out and find out for sure

Exactly why I haven't done it myself. That's a lot of Michelin slicks, track time, and private instruction. Can save more time honing my skills and have more fun doing it.

[Racingswh]

Say what ~$40k!? Guess you have to pay to play....

I was actually considering this, but at that price point I could never bring myself to actually cut check for this

I'll reach out and find out for sure

I think with electronics and flappy paddles that's in the ballpark for sure.

[ACR]

But think of how cool you'd be

[kriskyk]

But think of how cool you'd be

Cash is king lol

[BlueAdder]

I had one in my car for awhile, it's awesome, but you need Motec to control the no-lift-shifts etc.
Calvo did mine, they use PPG- http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/page.asp?productid=137 which utilizes your factory transmission case.

That thing is sweet

[RedTanRT/10]

I thought I recalled a post from Calvo eluding to around $18k and mentioned paddles were an option. Typically from what II've read is that dog boxes require frequent service intervals for the dog engagements (read as expensive) however with motec controlling every thing I wonder if that's no longer the case

Can't speak about the Calvo set up. Here's the EMCO book, p-15 has the service intervals. the MOTEC can support the "no-lift" shifting but Dan Cragin, Cincy Lux and others have told us that if you want to run no lift, get your $$$$ ready for more frequent rebuilds. (I use the clutch)

27848


We were considering seriously back in 2012 putting an Emco sequential in the 2008 Gen IV ACR but did not and the car was sold. At the time it was a straight swap without any electronics needed. Slight breathe off the throttle for upshifts and clutch for downshifts and rev matching same as the Barber Dodge cars I raced and am used to. 37 different ratio options as I recall. Could gear it optimally for all the tracks we frequent and keep top speed to 170 max so the car would never fall on it's face like it did in 5th even with the 2010 box in it and like the ACR-E does now. Emco Box was 23k plus tax at that time.

Racing, my buddy just got his tranny back from EMCO, on the build sheet there are 8 first gear options (3.143 to 2.375) and 58 2nd to 6th gear options (2.438 to 1.00 with 3 from .968 to .848). What a selection!!!!!

Mine run from 2.760 to .958, lots of shifting, but with having 50+ hp less, I was able to pull on a stock "E" from 80 mph to 160

[kriskyk]

I thought the reasons dog boxes required such frequent servicing was because they have dog engagements and not synchro's which requires drivers to manually rev match to shift to avoid the dog ears/teeth from clashing?

With Motec handling all of the rev matching, lifting, etc... I would think this would eliminate all the human error factors that would normally causes significant wear and tear

Clutching with a dog box seems like it wouldn't have that much more benefit then a regular manual with sycnchro's except for a stronger gear set?

[RedTanRT/10]

Kriskyk, I'm not an expert on how/why they work. I will tell you they shift much better with a little throttle and up-shifting is a learned skill. But as I said. I've been told no lift is real hard on the trans, lot's of torque. It shifts lightening fast already and I have a close ratio gear set up. I'm faster in a straight line with this set up to 160 plus vs. my 610 RWHP G4, including having to shift gears 2 more times.

[Racingswh]

Clutching with a dog box seems like it wouldn't have that much more benefit then a regular manual with sycnchro's except for a stronger gear set?

Upshifts are quicker. Engine is always in its powerband. The sequential makes it simple to optimize the power delivery and maximize forward thrust always. Missed shifts are a thing of the past.

Also when you can up shift is important. Many times I will try to avoid a gear change mid corner. With a sequential I feel I am OK to upshift anywhere.

I absolutely will upshift an EMCO box without clutching. Only a breathe off the throttle while the change is made and back flat.

This car does have the electronics so it's clutch less everywhere but watch where he can shift. It's a traditional lever actuated sequential gear change. Just amazing to me and thsee laps are very, very quick here.

https://youtu.be/Uek4fYTW4cQ

[uberpube]

Upshifts are quicker. Engine is always in its powerband. The sequential makes it simple to optimize the power delivery and maximize forward thrust always. Missed shifts are a thing of the past.

Also when you can up shift is important. Many times I will try to avoid a gear change mid corner. With a sequential I feel I am OK to upshift anywhere.

I absolutely will upshift an EMCO box without clutching. Only a breathe off the throttle while the change is made and back flat.



This car does have the electronics so it's clutch less everywhere but watch where he can shift. It's a traditional lever actuated sequential gear change. Just amazing to me and thsee laps are very, very quick here.

https://youtu.be/Uek4fYTW4cQ
Exactly, here's a fine educational video in Japanese .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwzRuyl-chs

[Racingswh]

Racing, my buddy just got his tranny back from EMCO, on the build sheet there are 8 first gear options (3.143 to 2.375) and 58 2nd to 6th gear options (2.438 to 1.00 with 3 from .968 to .848). What a selection!!!!!

Mine run from 2.760 to .958, lots of shifting, but with having 50+ hp less, I was able to pull on a stock "E" from 80 mph to 160

You can pick you're most used tire sizes, look at the tracks you frequent the most, look at your corner speeds and match engine rpm to speed in corner with your gear ratio selection so everything is optimized. Set top speed so it's usable and attainable on the road courses we are going to.

So many options is why I like the EMCO. I had no idea there were that many.

Love your Comp Coupe. I have wanted one for awhile and may end up with one at some point. I am going to do some TT next season with NARRA so I will get to see a few of them up close. Can't wait!

[38D]

This car does have the electronics so it's clutch less everywhere but watch where he can shift. It's a traditional lever actuated sequential gear change. Just amazing to me and thsee laps are very, very quick here.

https://youtu.be/Uek4fYTW4cQ

That's Cory Friedman, who is a very accomplished amateur Porsche racer who has done the Daytona 24 probably 10 times. So while a sequential is no doubt great, what he's doing also takes a lot of skill; the average guy is not going to be that quick to shift or that smooth.

[RedTanRT/10]

Racing, thanks for the compliment and the advice! What I found out after my first track event was the correct ratio's. Basically, my 3rd gear is close to a T56/TR6060 2nd gear, my 4th is the same ratio as the T56 3rd, and my 5 and 6 gears straddle a T56 4th gear.

So when I went back to my familiar tracks, it was much easier as I now knew the conversion. What I do need to work on is the multi-gear downshifts!! At the roval at CA Speedway for example, I have to drop 3 gears going into the infield. Not easy for me, but getting better. Good luck in the TT!! I'm going to run TT out here with NASA. Mike

[RedTanRT/10]

Here's a 9 minute in-car video of a guy racing with a sequential. My viper is stuck on his bumper for the 1st 8 minutes till the somthjing breaks and the viper gets by for the lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk1sIsbt-tg

[Racingswh]

Here's a 9 minute in-car video of a guy racing with a sequential. My viper is stuck on his bumper for the 1st 8 minutes till the somthjing breaks and the viper gets by for the lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk1sIsbt-tg

I do love your car. Looks great!! Cool to see it racing.

With the sequential in the Barber car I was always clutch in, bang down all the gears I needed to in the braking zone, blip at the end of the braking zone, clutch out. That allowed me to concentrate on braking for nearly all of the braking zone. Some drivers went one gear downchange at a time and clutched for every shift. I never did for some reason.

If I didn't have to use the clutch I would use my left foot on the brake and right foot on the throttle the way I used to drive the GTR. Transitions from brake to power are very smooth and it makes trailbraking seamless. You can also shift weight to the nose while on power in carousel type corners if the car is pushing.

I don't know how the sequential in the Comp Coupe works and would love to hear more about it.

[Racingswh]

That's Cory Friedman, who is a very accomplished amateur Porsche racer who has done the Daytona 24 probably 10 times. So while a sequential is no doubt great, what he's doing also takes a lot of skill; the average guy is not going to be that quick to shift or that smooth.

I really enjoy watching his in-car footage. His corner speeds are only dreams for me. lol!!