Was the retro styling of the Gen5 possibly a misstep ?

[KRATEDISEASE]

I love the Gen5 styling. Absolutely love it.

I own a 1997 GTS and thought the styling of the 1997 GTS was outrageous when introduced in 1996. ( the USA equal of the lambo Countach)

When the 2003 gen 3 came out, I hated it. Just my own personal opinion, no offense to any gen3 lovers. Not flashy enough, not curvy enough, not bold enough, again just MY personal opinion.

The new Mustang was recently shown and I was like..... so disappointed. I like the way Mustangs look, but never owned one. The point being that I felt the new Mustang design was not radical enough. I feel it was way too conservative in moving the design of Mustang forward or even in a new direction.

I personally feel that the retro trend in design that seemed to start to become popular in the 1990's is beginning to become non-innovative and actually counterproductive. I understand that designs need to be evolutionary or otherwise the core following of a car may abandon it because it veers to far from the original design.

I was disappointed with the Corvette C7 design initially when seen in magazines. When i saw the car in person, my opinion changed quickly since it seemed that the design was moved forward, but some basic retro design lines were left intact.

Everything I am writing here is just subject to my opinion.

Although I LOVE the design of the Gen5, I was wondering if the "classic" design was in a way holding back sales, or preventing people from other brands to switch to SRT Viper because the design is too retrospective towards the gen2 ?? I understand that this has not been an issue for Porsche wlth the 911, but I am just wondering if sales might have been slightly better if the gen5 had more of a revolutionary design.

Are the days over where for example the corvette C2 Corvette transformed into the C3 Cokebottle design ? and then the corvette C3 with its massive curves changes into the C4 with a spaceship looks and straight lines design ? The point being that there were huge drastic styling changes with each early corvette generation.Then you see the C5 and C6 corvette which did not change much at all overall.

Just my opinion. No right or wrong here on this thread.

But the real point of this tread is to ask if SRT did not move the gen5 more forward or should it have possibly gone into a different direction.

The Gen3 Viper apparently went into totally different direction as compared to the gen2, but the gen5 obviously brings back the gen2 theme.

Was this possibly a mistake or a misstep ?

I am starting to think that retrospective design cues on any brand are a bandaid and almost like plagiarism as opposed to more risky innovative radical design changes.

I am wrong ?

[Fatboy 18]

I understand your post but have to say this type of post has been done to death over Gen V styling. There is pages and pages of stuff like this on the Other Forum.

Lets not go there again!

[KRATEDISEASE]

I understand your post but have to say this type of post has been done to death over Gen V styling. There is pages and pages of stuff like this on the Other Forum.

Lets not go there again!

did not know

[Steve M]

Personally, I think people are grasping at straws to explain the low sales for 2013. That the Gen 5 body is based on a design originally from the early to mid-90s is the low hanging fruit, so I think that's what people have chosen to focus on the most. That and the price, but it's already been shown that adjusted for inflation, the SRT is really no more expensive than the outgoing Gen 4 cars it replaced, and it's no argument in my mind that you get more car for your buck with the Gen 5.

IMO, I think any sales problems can be blamed on two things: the current state of the economy, and bad marketing/press. To expand on the latter, it appears that the T/A is selling pretty well at this point, but for what reason? The body is still that Gen II design, so I have a hard time believing that a front splitter/rear spoiler combo was all that was needed to make it appeal to a broader audience...that leads me to believe that the media's warm reception of this variant is what's making the difference. It's the one the rags are bragging about; the one that beat the ZR1. The "track monster". I think it struck a chord with people...they wanted the one that everyone thought was vastly better, even though we all know that the T/A is largely no different than the SRT/GTS.

I'm thinking SRT will recognize the buzz surrounding the T/A and adjust accordingly from here on out...that "track monster" vibe got people talking, but this time around, the stuff they're saying is positive.

Just my $0.02.

[Nine Ball]

I don't feel it has anything to do with styling. I actually bought mine because it was a modernized Gen 2 theme. Had it looked too similar to my Gen 3, I'd not have bought it. The cars side by side have completely different characteristics, and I think the Gen 5 is a more timeless and well executed design than my 3.

I still blame SRT's poor marketing, poor dealer network, and media scathing, for the most part. Think about it, many of us were more hyped up about the cars before the media got a hold of them and started the bashing. Then the worst happened, even Viper "fans" started bashing on their newest model within the club.

SRT should have approached marketing this car with the "American Badass" theme. That is what the Viper is known for, and what stirs us car enthusiasts. Instead, they went the soft route and talked about interiors and how they wanted the German and Italian car fanboys. Meh.

[Troublemaker]

I agree with Steve. I think they got back to what everyone asked for, they updated the style that most associate with a Viper. The Viper has always been a car that was more capable of track use, I'd even go as far as call it a race car that could also see street use. I do find it interesting that the one the magazines love is the one that's selling well. Although from what I have seen on the board, many are being purchased by previous Viper owners, not new to the brand.

[ViperSmith]

Didn't we just do this thread?

[Bitten]

I don't feel it has anything to do with styling. I actually bought mine because it was a modernized Gen 2 theme. Had it looked too similar to my Gen 3, I'd not have bought it. The cars side by side have completely different characteristics, and I think the Gen 5 is a more timeless and well executed design than my 3.

I still blame SRT's poor marketing, poor dealer network, and media scathing, for the most part. Think about it, many of us were more hyped up about the cars before the media got a hold of them and started the bashing. Then the worst happened, even Viper "fans" started bashing on their newest model within the club.

SRT should have approached marketing this car with the "American Badass" theme. That is what the Viper is known for, and what stirs us car enthusiasts. Instead, they went the soft route and talked about interiors and how they wanted the German and Italian car fanboys. Meh.


What he said, and price point. The Gen 5 is a fairly big price jump from the Gen 3 & 4. It may of priced some people out of the cars. The TA gives you a more aggressive car and I think that's why people are buying them.

[FLATOUT]

Love the new car styling.

[Brian GTS]

I would prefer something a little different with the front facia/headlights. Otherwise, I absolutely LOVE the styling of the Gen V. The car is stunning.

[Nine Ball]

What he said, and price point. The Gen 5 is a fairly big price jump from the Gen 3 & 4. It may of priced some people out of the cars.

That statement only works when people take the pricing out of context, and quote the most expensive GTS car. The base SRT cars have more features than the outgoing Gen 4 cars, as we know.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

MSRP on my Gen 3 back in 2006 was $92K. In today's dollars, that equals $106K. My SRT with some nice options (Nav, track pack, touring package, leather) was $110K.

So, we are actually getting more car, more performance for similar money.

[FrgMstr]

Whale shark!

[The_Greg]

I would prefer something a little different with the front facia/headlights. Otherwise, I absolutely LOVE the styling of the Gen V. The car is stunning.

Before the design was revealed, I listed the main ingredients that I thought made the car a Viper: long hood, ducktail, giant side scallop of course, and horizontal headlights. I was shocked when I saw they weren't there and initially didn't like it much, but since have grown very fond of everything about the Gen V. I love all gen Vipers. I do love the really agressive look of the TA. I wonder if the TA's additional spoiler was molded into the body of the car on every Viper what people would have thought.

Looks are SUCH a subjective area that you will find people who like and dislike any car, ever. People did buy the Aztek didn't they? I think most who are commenting on the early media buzz are correct about the 'lackluster' sales. I also believe we need to see what the springtime sales are before we can truely make statements about the sales under or over-performing.

Don't forget as well, there are people out there who absolutely positively refuse to buy a first model year car. They think that all the kinks will be ironed out by the second model year and dive in then.

[mikesax]

I agree 100% with Brian GTS-wish the front were a little "meaner"-however EVERYTHING else is STUNNING!! Performance and build quality exceptional-styling TIMELESS!! No other car on the road
"does it" for me like the GEN V!! It looks "better" the more I look at it!! IMO it's the "essence" of what the Viper was and is-a PERFECT blend of old and new!!

[City]

The "style" conversation is somewhat ironic. When Dodge went from the Gen 2 to the Gen 3 there was similar "forum discord" about the change to the sharper lines. "They've ruined the classic lines of the Viper! The end is near and the sky is falling!"

So having lived through that, the Gen 5 is a mild throwback to the classic and memorialized lines of the Gen 2.

And now we are faced with opinions that the classic style may be the Viper's downfall?

History, in fact, DOES repeat itself.

You can't please everyone (often anyone).

[Canadian venom]

I don't feel it has anything to do with styling. I actually bought mine because it was a modernized Gen 2 theme. Had it looked too similar to my Gen 3, I'd not have bought it. The cars side by side have completely different characteristics, and I think the Gen 5 is a more timeless and well executed design than my 3.

I still blame SRT's poor marketing, poor dealer network, and media scathing, for the most part. Think about it, many of us were more hyped up about the cars before the media got a hold of them and started the bashing. Then the worst happened, even Viper "fans" started bashing on their newest model within the club.

SRT should have approached marketing this car with the "American Badass" theme. That is what the Viper is known for, and what stirs us car enthusiasts. Instead, they went the soft route and talked about interiors and how they wanted the German and Italian car fanboys. Meh.

Exactly, The Viper is not an Aston Martin and (I hope) it will never be...

They need a REAL car person at the head of marketing, someone who understand what the Viper is...

[ViperGeorge]

I love the styling of the Gen 5 from the side and from the rear. Beautiful actually. People that see it flip over the styling and I regularly see people taking photos of me while I'm driving it (and I am not very photogenic so I'm sure they are taking pics of the car not me!). Now the front is a different story. I do not like the grille and will soon change it to body color.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Ok, then most people seem to agree ( like I do) that the Gen 5 retains the classic Iconic style of what a true Viper should look like.

I love the design, I was just wondering if it was too retro, but it appears that the design is not retro in as much as it is actually iconic.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Didn't we just do this thread?

no we did not.

[Canadian venom]

I love the design of the gen 5, even more with the aero package :t1567:

[Hothonda]

This was retro.....ha!

Not my smartest purchase.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/NSXER/RitaandProwler_zps3db41abc.jpg~original

[DreadLox]

I really like the new design. The rear I always liked but the front took some getting use to. It literally took me going on a the fall cruise we had with a blue Gen V following me part of the ways that I started liking the front. I think it looks more like a catfish than a snake at most front angles. One major favorite of mine about the Gen IV's was center band with or w/o the driver stripe but the same style I've noticed, IMO, does not work well at all with the styling of the Gen V. The center band follows the hood on the Gen IVs, but with the clam shell hood it doesn't fit well. I'm interested in seeing the ACR color/stripe combos in the future. Sorry if this was a bit off topic but that's my input. However the T/A came out and, like Canadian Venom said, I also like the aero package.

[Austin]

Im a fan of all GEN Vipers, but I feel going backwards in design was kind of a mistake. For those of you who werent able to make the unveiling in NY, they had sketches on the walls of Viper designs they had considered. After seeing what was unveiled and then seeing the sketches, I was a little disappointed. I personally wish we would have seen something more dramatic and aggressive. The GEN V almost seems "too soft". Its not until you get the full aero package, black wheels and 6-vent hood that the car finally starts to come alive and have that "Viper appearance". Of course, just my opinion. Here are the sketches that were in NY. They had so much potential, yet decided to go "retro". My favorite is the one on the right.


http://imageshack.com/a/img849/9311/9t9s.jpg

[Newport Viper]

Hi Austin. I agree with you. And it needs 700 horsepower! LOL :t0152:

[05Commemorative]

I know design is so subjective, but is there a better looking car in this price range? I don't think so, so I think the last of concerns is the design. Interestingly, I think the car looks even better each time I see it as you see the fine points of the design and how everything is connected. The new C7 is catchy because different, but not iconic or timeless and I fear will be considered ugly over time. Not like the C1, C2 or eaven early C3's.

btw, of the drawings above, I actually like those on the left the best, but I still like the current design better.

[CHAP]

Im a fan of all GEN Vipers, but I feel going backwards in design was kind of a mistake. For those of you who werent able to make the unveiling in NY, they had sketches on the walls of Viper designs they had considered. After seeing what was unveiled and then seeing the sketches, I was a little disappointed. I personally wish we would have seen something more dramatic and aggressive. The GEN V almost seems "too soft". Its not until you get the full aero package, black wheels and 6-vent hood that the car finally starts to come alive and have that "Viper appearance". Of course, just my opinion. Here are the sketches that were in NY. They had so much potential, yet decided to go "retro". My favorite is the one on the right.


http://imageshack.com/a/img849/9311/9t9s.jpg

What he said :dude3:

[v10enomous]

I like the GenV styling but I can see myself spending $100k+ for a base model SRT in red and someone coming up to me and saying I really liked the silver and blue one you had better...is this one newer or something.

[Dman]

Well, this is interesting, we've certainly talked about it, but your post, OP, has interesting points to me.

When the gen5 came to MOPARPALOOZA like 2 yrs ago & Ralph came, several people around me saw it sitting on display from about 70 feet away and one said 'is that the new viper', and the other said no that's a gen2, I heard/saw more than a few people thrown into wondering if it was a 2 or a 5 in walking up to it, so the resemblance is strong, especially to non-viper owners. I liked it, although I'll admit I was surprised it was so gen2 in its style, but that was ok with me since I love the gen2 also.

Very interesting to me is that my son, who's 19 and has only known vipers in our garage since he's been able to remember, went to see the gen5 with me at the dealer. His reaction really surprised me. He liked a few specirfic things, but he said he was a little disppointed, that it looked older not newer. Now, he loved the car, but he loves all the gens like I do so that was a given, but for shock & awe of the new gen5, he was really flat on it, like, "oh, that's the new one?" sort of reaction, and he's car crazy like me. Again, he loved it, but he was surprised it wasn't "new" in its design vs being retro. He even asked me about it, saying he thought the retro thing was over and cars were going the other direction in design.

Anyway, I found it interesting and IDK, maybe others get the same impression. That it's a beauty, but retro.

Would I call it a mistake, well, I don't think hindsight is even 20/20 on this one. We do know that they spent more than half the budget on the traction & stability control, plus the interior redesign and perf mods, that doesn't leave a ton left for mega-redesigning of the body. So I don't think they could've gotten too agressive even if they wanted to.

[v10enomous]

So this ship has sailed... Maybe the next cruise...

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o67/charlielanz2/Dodge_Viper_SRT_10_Volado_Design_01_zpsbe74e2a8.jp g

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o67/charlielanz2/Dodge_Viper_SRT_10_Volado_Design_02_zps213b7ad9.jp g

[Slaughterj]

The Gen V has good looks, just minor quibbles with the front fascia, driver's side dash toupee, and black wedge on the exterior behind the doors.

[kdaviper]

How many of those design studies would translate into an actual product well? It's one thing to sketch something out on paper, but it's another entirely to design a car with aerodynamics, crash standards, production constraints, etc. in mind.
Also, what is so "retro" about the Gen V? sure the touring model shares the GTS moniker with the coupe from the Gen 2 days, but what else? Of course if you were to compare the exterior design of the Gen V to the only other Viper body styles available, I will admit it does look more like a gen 2 than a 3/4, but primarily because the Gen V extremely voluptuous.
Finally, when the Gen V was unveiled (and to a lesser extent even now) there were people who complained about the headlights and their elongated orientation. They all complained that the headlights didn't look like they belonged on a viper... that they wish that the lights looked more like a Gen 3/4, etc, etc.
I submit a challenge to any of the armchair stylists/designers in this forum to produce unique sketches and virtual 3d model of what their viper of the future would look like, along with CFD data exhibiting the behavior of airflow around said model, and btw, it has to be able to use existing hardpoints from the Gen 4 chassis. Have fun!

[v10enomous]

The 2 cars that really move me when I see them are the GenV and the one in my garage.

[Coloviper]

Funny subject on the looks! I bought my GEN III Coupe new in 06' with GTS Blue with Silver stripes, 5 spoke polished wheels. I absolutely loved that car but my wife hated it. Had health problems and sold it 6 years later only to heal up and then pick up a used 96' RT/10 with Black and silver factory fang stripes. My wife absolutely loves this car.

The new GEN V is a thing of beauty and my wife and I both love it as well as have a personal attraction to it since we watched it grow in real life, seeing it live first in SLC, meeting the engineers and seeing the mules tested in the Rockies twice before production, then seeing the actual production car versions afterwards. Honestly for us, it comes down to price, plain and simple. Sure I would like to see more aggressive styling, silver sidewinder IIs as well as additional colors, but it comes down to price. Just can not justify the large outlay of cash for a new GEN V when a little paid for 96' RT provides 75% of the same fun though only 25% of the luxury. In the end, it is hard to justify increases for what is a part time driver and toy. I think a lot more people are in the same boat these days.

Personally I think it was smart to bring back the iconic styling. Where things should have been changed up a bit more was adopting steam-punk theme into the design. A clear and very real classic nod to the original styling of old but a very modern twist to make it recognizable for sure in the "blending" but very distinctively different for the future. On the upcoming refresh, this is really the next step in the evolution given the budgets SRT has to work with and how to keep attracting new buyers. Interior is perfect and would not change a single thing, well maybe comfortable seat options. Beyond that the rest is body panels and drivetrain. The base formula of the car is good, just need to improve on the 10% to make it a show stopper. 2015 or 2016 could be a great year for Viper with a refresh.

[slitherv10]

Here's a great question to you all.

Would you buy a Viper that has all the characteristics or the New Base Corvette?

With 450Hp and 450tq and a MSRP of 70K ??

Would you? Are you a true Viperholic or are you strictly about the power and performance.

The New Vette is affordable for everyone complaining about price and is loaded with amenities to suit everyone's taste.

If you can answer that question honestly without feeling guilty about your answer, then you answered the repetitive question that has been in a million threads, including some of my own to be fair, that its not about the style or the loyalty or price point,

ITS ABOUT THE DOMINATION THAT THE VIPER'S PERSONALITY HAS ALWAYS HAD AND HAS DISSAPOINTED ALL OF US THAT IT HAS LOST THAT IDENTITY.

WE ALL WANT IT BACK AND THAT IS WHAT WILL SATISFY EVERYONE HERE.

Its not that 640 is not enough and if it had 700 it would be unusable and useless. Its about the fact that it has it. Period. Why does Policy limit( sorry to use you here policy but I respect what you owned and own) go out and buy the QX80 and the Lambo and the Viper and the McLaren, why does he not buy the Rav 4 , Subaru wrx and the buick century? Why ? because he likes the top of the food chain cars and trucks, does he need all those to fulfill his lifes journey everyday? No. But he buys them anyways. Its the bragging rights people, its the fact that you owned the KIng of the Hill per say, and now it just another car. Another sport car among the rest. It does not stand alone anymore. It does not have that identity of the Bad boy and the untamed. The critics are no longer scared of this car and raving about its performance and domination on the track. Beating the ZR1 by mere seconds is not enough for the Viper brand. It was never known to beat by mere seconds. It was know for brute killer attitude and waaaaay ahead of the competition. Something us men and, some women of course, like to feel. Its what churns our butter and makes us squirm. Come on. Its such a simple answer as to why this car did not make it. We have to stop reaching for straws.

I repeat again, if SRT would have made your beautiful Gen 5 retro car with 450HP V8 with all the amenities the Vette has at 70K MSRP, would you buy it then??

I think not. Why, because it does not have the domination . Period.. the vette is just another sports car. its a dime a dozen, ...something the Viper is beginning to get as a new identity and its not what we all stood tall for once upon a time. Now we are starting to show it through the sales and comments that have been repetitive over and over again, by us and the critics and everyone else on the planet.

[VENOM V]

Slither, you asked the question, I'll give you a straight answer. No.

What I see is a guy that is on the street corner holding up a sign, preaching passionately his religion. Trying to save us all. Some believe as you do, but many do not. I do not believe in your religion. I will never believe in your religion. A thousand thanks for sharing your religion with me a thousand times, but I will never agree on this.

But I know you won't be satisfied, and I'll see you with your sign in the air, megaphone in mouth.

I feel like a character named Sam in a Dr Seuss book, however I will never eat green eggs and ham. Period.

[05Commemorative]

So this ship has sailed... Maybe the next cruise...

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o67/charlielanz2/Dodge_Viper_SRT_10_Volado_Design_01_zpsbe74e2a8.jp g

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o67/charlielanz2/Dodge_Viper_SRT_10_Volado_Design_02_zps213b7ad9.jp g

I was just doing a countdown on this thread when someone was going to show this ugly version. This design looks even worse to me now than it id two years ago as it has a bunch of gen4 features to it and does not flow in any good way (in my opinion).

[slitherv10]

I was just doing a countdown on this thread when someone was going to show this ugly version. This design looks even worse to me now than it id two years ago as it has a bunch of gen4 features to it and does not flow in any good way (in my opinion).

Where as on the other hand, I for one would have sold both of my Vipers instantly to buy this design. I think refining the Gen 4 would have been the way to go.Not refining the Gen 2. Making the Gen 4 more of a brute design following the Gen 1 and 2 character would have been interesting. Add a wing on that design above would make it a monster. Much better front end design as well.

Just my opinion of course. Each to their own

[05Commemorative]

Well, this is interesting, we've certainly talked about it, but your post, OP, has interesting points to me.

When the gen5 came to MOPARPALOOZA like 2 yrs ago & Ralph came, several people around me saw it sitting on display from about 70 feet away and one said 'is that the new viper', and the other said no that's a gen2, I heard/saw more than a few people thrown into wondering if it was a 2 or a 5 in walking up to it, so the resemblance is strong, especially to non-viper owners. I liked it, although I'll admit I was surprised it was so gen2 in its style, but that was ok with me since I love the gen2 also.

Very interesting to me is that my son, who's 19 and has only known vipers in our garage since he's been able to remember, went to see the gen5 with me at the dealer. His reaction really surprised me. He liked a few specirfic things, but he said he was a little disppointed, that it looked older not newer. Now, he loved the car, but he loves all the gens like I do so that was a given, but for shock & awe of the new gen5, he was really flat on it, like, "oh, that's the new one?" sort of reaction, and he's car crazy like me. Again, he loved it, but he was surprised it wasn't "new" in its design vs being retro. He even asked me about it, saying he thought the retro thing was over and cars were going the other direction in design.

Anyway, I found it interesting and IDK, maybe others get the same impression. That it's a beauty, but retro.

Would I call it a mistake, well, I don't think hindsight is even 20/20 on this one. We do know that they spent more than half the budget on the traction & stability control, plus the interior redesign and perf mods, that doesn't leave a ton left for mega-redesigning of the body. So I don't think they could've gotten too agressive even if they wanted to.
This is an interesting observation. I have a story with my kid as well. The difference is they grew up on a Gen3. So, this new Gen5 is a dramatic change in design. As I have said before, the biggest market for upgrade customers are the Gen3's. Need a conv, no issue with the design.

[05Commemorative]

ITS ABOUT THE DOMINATION THAT THE VIPER'S PERSONALITY HAS ALWAYS HAD AND HAS DISSAPOINTED "ALL" OF US THAT IT HAS LOST THAT IDENTITY.

WE "ALL" WANT IT BACK AND THAT IS WHAT WILL SATISFY "EVERYONE" HERE.
.
Why do you continue to say phrases like above? You use "ALL" and "EVERYONE" and then later say it was just YOUR opinion? Ok to have your opinion, we all have them. But to suggest you know others even though others have stated they disagree is, well, a bit odd... It does seem like the guy on a street corner preaching some beliefs as stated earlier.

Personally (my opinion), I disagree with your statement. I don't think it has lost its identify at all. I am not disappointed, quite the opposite. I definitely did not buy the car to brag about it.

[ViperSmith]

Why do you continue to say phrases like above? You use "ALL" and "EVERYONE" and then later say it was just YOUR opinion? Ok to have your opinion, we all have them. But to suggest you know others even though others have stated they disagree is, well, a bit odd... It does seem like the guy on a street corner preaching some beliefs as stated earlier.

Personally (my opinion), I disagree with your statement. I don't think it has lost its identify at all. I am not disappointed, quite the opposite. I definitely did not buy the car to brag about it.

he posts the same repetitive and useless stuff over and over.

You'd think after two years of complaining people would have found something else to complain about.

[slitherv10]

Why do you continue to say phrases like above? You use "ALL" and "EVERYONE" and then later say it was just YOUR opinion? Ok to have your opinion, we all have them. But to suggest you know others even though others have stated they disagree is, well, a bit odd... It does seem like the guy on a street corner preaching some beliefs as stated earlier.

Personally (my opinion), I disagree with your statement. I don't think it has lost its identify at all. I am not disappointed, quite the opposite. I definitely did not buy the car to brag about it.


Firstly I am using the word ALL and WE in a third person form. I am not stating it in a singular or second person form.

it is understood as ALL of us who agree with the version and We that do.

A little difficult to understand in text form.

I apologize if it came out the wrong way. Thus why I am in the later part of the post quoting "my opinion"

[VENOM V]

he posts the same repetitive and useless stuff over and over.

You'd think after two years of complaining people would have found something else to complain about.

Hey, do you mean like a guy preaching passionately with a megaphone in his mouth on a street corner?

[slitherv10]

he posts the same repetitive and useless stuff over and over.

You'd think after two years of complaining people would have found something else to complain about.


And you continue to post sarcasm over and over again on my and others views as if yours are the only ones that make sense.

This is a chatt forum, a place where people of all natures to come and comment freely about their thoughts and opinions on subjects they choose to bring to fruition or reply to.

Its not about you trying to find ways to downplay every else's reasoning.

where are your useful posts if mine are useless.....the ones about buying the Gen 5 so you and your wife can go for dinner, or the ones about how cold it is in your part of town...which one?

Didnt' know you were moderating.

if you have your own opinion on someone's own comment, own belief, then go ahead and respond, if you don't like what they say, oh well, its a chatt forum, deal with it!! I am a member and have an opinion, if you don't like what I have to say or anyone elses that you have sarcastically added your 2 cents, then I suggest you keep your comments to yourself or else respect others opinions through threads and posts. It seems like your trying to jump on band wagons each time someone has different opinion to my own. 05cCommemmorative replied HIS thoughts to me, no one was talking or wanted your opinion there.

[Policy Limits]

Hey I got a shout out! Haha

But honestly I don't buy all of these cars for bragging rights. I drive them, enjoy them, some more than others. Not into collecting. I buy a new toy every season or every other because life is short, variety is the spice of life, and when you're dead, you're dead for a LONG time.

Who wants to get stuck looking at red when you can have red, white, orange black, green etc? Not a brand snob at all either if something is cool it's cool regardless of what country it's made in. Saw a Lotus List today for 50k and thought wow so much car for such reasonable price. It's not a price thing or a brand thing, it's a coolness thing.

When the Gen I debuted I was in 10th grade. I've wanted a Viper ever since. The gen II was my favorite style but I love the V because it has that retro style with the side pipes that the II lacked. Love retro styling. The Huracan has a profile influenced by the murcielago and a Miura inspired rear. Love that. Look at the Porsche styling; evolutionary not revolutionary and a huge success.

Even though I'm not a huge brand loyalist, there are a couple of brands I'd buy again. And the snake is one of them. Come on ACR..

[Troublemaker]

When the Gen I debuted I was in 10th grade. I've wanted a Viper ever since. The gen II was my favorite style but I love the V because it has that retro style with the side pipes that the II lacked. Love retro styling. The Huracan has a profile influenced by the murcielago and a Miura inspired rear. Love that. Look at the Porsche styling; evolutionary not revolutionary and a huge success.


The side pipes can be easily added to a Gen2 if that ever strikes your fancy in the future. I agree on the look of the Huracan, while the Murci is an interesting looking car, I was never a big fan. The Miura is one of my all time favorite Italians, which very much might explain why the Huracan appeals to me, I must have made a connection there I didn't even realize. I will never own one, but I can admire from a distance, that doesn't bother me one bit.

It's interesting you brought up the Lotus, the Exige has recently entered my radar.

We have had our differences along the way, but one thing we do and will continue to agree on is the looks of the Gen5. I am a Gen2 guy, so they made it looked the way a lot of us dinosaurs hoped. The headlights were weird to me at first, but now I really don't even notice them. The ACR should be interesting, I hope they figure out how to add big aero without disturbing the lines.

[VENOM V]

Here's my view. I did not own a previous gen Viper primarily because I couldn't afford one. After working hard for many years I was finally in the financial position to pursue my dream of owning a car of this caliber and beauty. My best friend was successful earlier than me, so I've had the benefit of riding shotgun in a variety of machines, Lambos, Ferraris, Porsches, Etc. Although amazed by their performance, none called to me the way the Viper does. No car on the world is as beautiful as the Viper to my eye. The Gen II and V are my favorites, but I love them all. But I wouldn't have seriously considered the Gen V unless it was updated with an interior to match it's price point, a world class ESC that would allow me to learn how to track without totaling it, and I wanted something that I could take on weekend getaways with my lady to wine country. The dual mode suspension of the GTS was a selling point for me for that reason.

I believe the Viper is a timeless design, especially the Gen II and V. I am so glad that they didn't try to turn it into a spaceship like the C7 Vette. I like the new Vette primarily for its track performance but I could not see keeping it for a lifetime. That is reserved for classics like the '63 Corvette, Ford GT, and all of the gen Vipers, to name a few.

[Eachey51]

I fell in love with the gen2 gts and was disappointed wen i saw my first gen3. The day i saw my first gen5 my mouth very literally dropped open! This car is perfect! It brought the sexy curves back yet made it look modern and edgy. Its also aggressive and in your face, but not overly much so that its still very attractive! Up close and personal it only gets better! The little details and sexy lines and curves are really awsome! I think its the sexiest car ever built! Yes i am a bit biased but its as close to perfect as any car has come! So to answer your question. No, the gen5 design is in no way a misstep! The gen5 is iconic and modern and in my opinion does not look to much like a gen2. Perfect step forward!

[Policy Limits]

Some styling transcends time. I see a nine year old Ford GT & fall in love every time. Even a 1/4 century old countach is just timeless and they don't even have fuel injection!

The other 360 is when they make a new NSX that looks nothing like the original car that people fell in love with way back when. It causes the vehicle to sustain a loss of identity in large part. The V doesn't have that problem. I think Ralph G said he wanted it so when you look at it, it's still recognizable as a Viper. LED headlights and all bells & whistles considered, mission accomplished, and that's not a bad thing.

[Viperpro]

The Gen V is an unbelievable piece of craftsmanship. I would echo what some others have said about it however. I own a 2001 GTS that I purchased second hand 18 months after new purchase for just $52,000. The other guy took a pretty good haircut.

Cut to 2014 and we are talking reasonably $120,000 gets you the Gen V after tax and other BS. As much as I love everything about the Gen V, I could never justify that type of spend today. Just couldn't.

I cannot believe the way the press has treated the Viper. It got some pretty good early publicity immediately after introduction but once the new Corvette was introduced, they swooned over it. I think the low point was when they put the Gen V up against the old Corvette at Laguna Seca. But then the haters just came out. Still an unsophisticated, raw machine slightly better and dressed up than the previous version. Then there was the Wall Street Journal article with the idiot saying that it would be a much better car with a V8. Even the Top Gears guys got into it when the put it up against the Lexus LFA and Aston Martin. C'mon really? These guys just don't get it. The Viper hits on a very specific niche' and only the very few really get it.

We need to understand as a group we have a car that is more unique than Porsche, Corvette and Aston Martin and many Ferraris. It is just what this car is all about. I go out on a weekend and do not see a single Viper. That and the people I meet within and outside of the club as a result of owning this car. I understand that sales needs to justify the business case and I hope that Chrysler can sell just enough to continue to produce the variants that we like. Fortunately or unfortunately this car will likely never be a best seller but I sure am proud to own one.

[Policy Limits]

Yup I've seen more F cars in the wild than vipers and that includes all gen's. one marketing vid I did enjoy was the Speed TV episode with Tommy K & Michael Andretti.

The Viper is the Cobra's son, it's a hot rod, supercar, American Muscle, exotic hybrid with a very unique personality. The curves are great, love the lines of the V. The stripes on the GTS don't flow well to my eye though & I like that model without them. Stripe styling on the IV ACR was perfect. Hope the new ACR hits the mark. Maybe a GTS-R flow will work. The front splitter limits stripe flow IMO. Then again, the original snake had no stripes, so going bare is even more true retro style.

Targa top on the roadster version would be a great look too IMO

[KRATEDISEASE]

I have a megaphone and an old milk crate in case someone wants to borrow it....Let me know.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Here's a great question to you all.

Would you buy a Viper that has all the characteristics or the New Base Corvette?

With 450Hp and 450tq and a MSRP of 70K ??

Would you? Are you a true Viperholic or are you strictly about the power and performance.

The New Vette is affordable for everyone complaining about price and is loaded with amenities to suit everyone's taste.

If you can answer that question honestly without feeling guilty about your answer, then you answered the repetitive question that has been in a million threads, including some of my own to be fair, that its not about the style or the loyalty or price point,

ITS ABOUT THE DOMINATION THAT THE VIPER'S PERSONALITY HAS ALWAYS HAD AND HAS DISSAPOINTED ALL OF US THAT IT HAS LOST THAT IDENTITY.

WE ALL WANT IT BACK AND THAT IS WHAT WILL SATISFY EVERYONE HERE.

Its not that 640 is not enough and if it had 700 it would be unusable and useless. Its about the fact that it has it. Period. Why does Policy limit( sorry to use you here policy but I respect what you owned and own) go out and buy the QX80 and the Lambo and the Viper and the McLaren, why does he not buy the Rav 4 , Subaru wrx and the buick century? Why ? because he likes the top of the food chain cars and trucks, does he need all those to fulfill his lifes journey everyday? No. But he buys them anyways. Its the bragging rights people, its the fact that you owned the KIng of the Hill per say, and now it just another car. Another sport car among the rest. It does not stand alone anymore. It does not have that identity of the Bad boy and the untamed. The critics are no longer scared of this car and raving about its performance and domination on the track. Beating the ZR1 by mere seconds is not enough for the Viper brand. It was never known to beat by mere seconds. It was know for brute killer attitude and waaaaay ahead of the competition. Something us men and, some women of course, like to feel. Its what churns our butter and makes us squirm. Come on. Its such a simple answer as to why this car did not make it. We have to stop reaching for straws.

I repeat again, if SRT would have made your beautiful Gen 5 retro car with 450HP V8 with all the amenities the Vette has at 70K MSRP, would you buy it then??

I think not. Why, because it does not have the domination . Period.. the vette is just another sports car. its a dime a dozen, ...something the Viper is beginning to get as a new identity and its not what we all stood tall for once upon a time. Now we are starting to show it through the sales and comments that have been repetitive over and over again, by us and the critics and everyone else on the planet.

True. in 1997 the Viper was on the covers of all the car magazines winning EVERY comparo. Now the gen 5 gets last place consistently. Laughing stock on the sales floor and the magazine reviews.

Sorry but the above applies.

[Coloviper]

Think not! There are those that want to buy it or have bought it and then those that have zero intention of ever wanting or buying it. You guys fall in the later group and you just want to bash it for that reason.

Why not enjoy what you have and stop pushing this bs agenda to convince everyone that the car needs to devolve 20 years to meet your idea of what it should be? New owners have ponied up for new car and we should be happy they have. Why keep making them feel bad by knuckle dragging every comment for this rail car and a seat approach?

Just because some want a reduced price does not mean they want a Vette. I would pony up for a 15' Mustang before I ever considered a new Vette as the Vettes are the ugliest vehicle I have ever seen out there in a long time.

Just very weird comments by some. Some have a warped sense of what a Viper is but to each their own. I don't agree with it, but that is my opinion.

[KRATEDISEASE]

The people /owners who bought a gen5 do not need to defend themselves. They are happy with the car they bought. They obviously do not care that it does not have 700+HP. They enjoy the high quality interior, awesome styling, and the rarity of owning a hand built high end car. That's OK.

[former345bhpLS1]

True. in 1997 the Viper was on the covers of all the car magazines winning EVERY comparo. Now the gen 5 gets last place consistently. Laughing stock on the sales floor and the magazine reviews.

Sorry but the above applies.

The Gen2 won a comparison test?? I have never seen that. The 2000 ACR did come in 2nd in one comparo (C&D "Yankee Boomers" - between the then new 2001 Z06 and Mustang Cobra R), otherwise it always finished dead last. If you have that comparison that it won, I would love to read it.

-Nick

[slitherv10]

The Gen2 won a comparison test?? I have never seen that. The 2000 ACR did come in 2nd in one comparo (C&D "Yankee Boomers" - between the then new 2001 Z06 and Mustang Cobra R), otherwise it always finished dead last. If you have that comparison that it won, I would love to read it.

-Nick


Up to 1997 ( and until 2000 at least) but we are talking about 1997 here, not one of the competitors (Lambo,Corvette,Mustang,Ferrari etc) was even close to the 0-60 or quarter miles times of the 1996,97,98 or 99 for that matter if I remember correctly. The only car that could beat it in those times is the Ferrari F50 which cost 500000 at that time ( 7 times the cost of the Viper) Only one. So for comparisons sake, it was the King of the hill and why it sold out in those years ( overproduction of the B/W from 96 into 97 with roughly around 500 more cars because of demand and no supply.
There was no comparison period. The only reason the Viper got second with the car and driver article was not because of performance or its true existence it was because it was too much car for what they were comparing it for. Some yutz clutz who needed a well rounded daily driver.
Look what the article quoted and it goes beyond this later in the article, cutting up the ZO6 yet giving it the podium. Do you smell marketing for Chevy there. I do.
Here is the quote.....

"The Z06 doesn't win because it's the fastest (it isn't), it doesn't win because it's the prettiest (at least we don't think so), and it doesn't win because it's the most exciting (it's not bad)."
"The Corvette wins by a single point because it's almost as fast, just about as pretty, and certainly plenty exciting. It also costs almost eight grand less than the Cobra, a little more than half the price of the Viper, and has more amenities and space than either one. "


Name me a few comparisons of production cars in those years that were in direct comparison with the Viper in those years and failed against it for what the car was built for.Performance.

Diablo...nope
Ferrari of any sort....nope (other than f50)
Corvette ZR1 nope
Mustang nope

None of them.....today though its a different story. Not that I am saying its worse, but it is what it is. Were in Hp wars now as was back in the late 60's early 70's and then everything went boom in 73 and on. Gas crisis. Gen 5 is a formidable opponent against many out there, its just doesn't stand alone anymore. No big deal as it doesn't have to. It is a car for some and for some its not.. Is it on my bucket list ...no....was the early Gen's...definitely. Is it worthy of a bucket list to you ? Well its your bucket list and if that is one car you have to have today against all others, then so be it. It your prerogative.

[ACRucrazy]

Reading through the new Viper book again last night, looking at some of the concept art and sketches, I really feel like SRT had an opportunity to go very futuristic with the Viper like shown in some of those. Love the Gen V, but I hope the VI it just out of this world!

[slitherv10]

Reading through the new Viper book again last night, looking at some of the concept art and sketches, I really feel like SRT had an opportunity to go very futuristic with the Viper like shown in some of those. Love the Gen V, but I hope the VI it just out of this world!

Careful what you say, you'll end up In the naysayers club with the rest of us. Your opinion should be kept to yourself on an open forum chatt site. especially when your a member.
Hmm ...did I get that right?:stickmen_burningsti

[former345bhpLS1]

Up to 1997 ( and until 2000 at least) but we are talking about 1997 here, not one of the competitors (Lambo,Corvette,Mustang,Ferrari etc) was even close to the 0-60 or quarter miles times of the 1996,97,98 or 99 for that matter if I remember correctly. The only car that could beat it in those times is the Ferrari F50 which cost 500000 at that time ( 7 times the cost of the Viper) Only one. So for comparisons sake, it was the King of the hill and why it sold out in those years ( overproduction of the B/W from 96 into 97 with roughly around 500 more cars because of demand and no supply.
There was no comparison period. The only reason the Viper got second with the car and driver article was not because of performance or its true existence it was because it was too much car for what they were comparing it for. Some yutz clutz who needed a well rounded daily driver.
Look what the article quoted and it goes beyond this later in the article, cutting up the ZO6 yet giving it the podium. Do you smell marketing for Chevy there. I do.
Here is the quote.....

"The Z06 doesn't win because it's the fastest (it isn't), it doesn't win because it's the prettiest (at least we don't think so), and it doesn't win because it's the most exciting (it's not bad)."
"The Corvette wins by a single point because it's almost as fast, just about as pretty, and certainly plenty exciting. It also costs almost eight grand less than the Cobra, a little more than half the price of the Viper, and has more amenities and space than either one. "


Name me a few comparisons of production cars in those years that were in direct comparison with the Viper in those years and failed against it for what the car was built for.Performance.

Diablo...nope
Ferrari of any sort....nope (other than f50)
Corvette ZR1 nope
Mustang nope

None of them.....today though its a different story. Not that I am saying its worse, but it is what it is. Were in Hp wars now as was back in the late 60's early 70's and then everything went boom in 73 and on. Gas crisis. Gen 5 is a formidable opponent against many out there, its just doesn't stand alone anymore. No big deal as it doesn't have to. It is a car for some and for some its not.. Is it on my bucket list ...no....was the early Gen's...definitely. Is it worthy of a bucket list to you ? Well its your bucket list and if that is one car you have to have today against all others, then so be it. It your prerogative.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/1995-acura-nsx-t-vs-dodge-viper-rt-10-ferrari-f355-lotus-esprit-s4s-porsche-911-turbo-archived-comparison-test

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/chevy-corvette-z06-vs-dodge-viper-gts-acr-ford-svt-mustang-cobra-r-comparison-test

I agree that the Gen2's performance was impressive for it's day. That's not what I was referring to, but it did not "win" comparison tests. It often posted the fastest or nearly fastest times (993 turbo was often slightly quicker, but with a lower trap speed. M/T tested a 550 against a 99 Gen2 in their Top Speed shootout and the two were very close though then Gen2 eged it out). But it wasn't the darling of magazines, it was the gorilla of performance numbers. But in the "comparo points arena" it usually finished last due to it's other personality traits.

The memory of the Gen2 is a funny one. The mainstream remembers it as a straight-line muscle car with poor handling (even though it held the M/T slalom record for 6 years and several pro-drivers of the period stated that it was "superb handling"). While many current and former Gen2 owners remember it as the only sports car of the 90s that vanquished it's opponents in every possible category. Reality lies in between. It was an amazing car and very fast in it's day, though it did have real competition from Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, and later Corvette Z06s. The 1999 Diablo SV really could run with a stock Gen2 GTS, at least above 60 (my friend has personal experience with that one as a former Gen2 owner).

Part of it's shock and awe was that it was an upstart - the Gen2 GTS premiered after only 4 model years of Viper. Who else had such performance accolades with such little time in the game?

For the record, I LOVE the Gen2! It was my very favorite of all cars (until I drove the GenV) and I got to put ~3000 miles on my friends 1997 GTS. For the past 12 years I was absolutely committed to getting one. The problem is that I drove the GenV - and really drove it hard for ~250 miles on the back roads of Napa/Sonoma/Berkeley.

The GenV is also a bit of a paradox. Labeled as the "softer" and "more refined Viper", only to find that it is much louder than a Gen2 (similar to a Gen2 with headers and a muffler delete) and much more stiffly sprung (like a Gen2 ACR with the shocks set to medium/firm). It is less comfortable than the Gen2 as a GT car (the SRT model that is) and I would take a Gen2 on a long trip before a GenV. Then Gen2 is a more comfortable touring car (ironically) between the softer seats, softer suspension (except the Gen2 ACR), and less cabin noise.

The GenV is also SO SIMILAR to the Gen2 - I could hardly believe it. It has nearly all of the Gen2 personality, but fixes nearly all of the Gen2s issues. It is essentially a Gen2 with 640 bhp, carbon fiber body, big brake kit, better aero, 150 lbs lower curb weight, lightweight flywheel, less understeer, more rubber, and closer spaced gear ratios. What's not to like?!

Is it worthy of a bucket list? Yes, it is the best car I have ever driven! I wouldn't want it to drive cross country, but for a back road blast, nothing could be better (in my mind after driving it).

My suggestion is to try it. Too many people around here are criticizing the car without driving it. Those who haven't driven it shouldn't comment on anything, but the styling.
The car is not what you might expect and is SO MUCH BETTER than I could have imagined.

You need to give it a try.

-Nick

[former345bhpLS1]

BTW, I still really want a 1996 or 1997 B/W GTS Coupe and I suspect that I will own one at some point. But I want a GenV more because it works better for me on the canyon roads of Northern California (which is really Lotus Elise territory). In a perfect future I will own both, in an imperfect future I will try to get the GenV first - I didn't expect that after the GenV premiered. At that point I was still planning on a Gen2.

Slitherv10 - I love that picture and am very jealous!

-Nick

[BlknBlu]

Opinions only matter to each individual and not everyone will agree. I am sure there are Prius forums where folks think that it is the greatest car ever built. My thoughts are that SRT knocked it out of the park with the NEW car. It has evolved into an international superstar that attracts all buyers from the Raw unhibited beast to the most sophisticated grey poupon lovers. The car cover a wide variety of ownership now. One of the highest HP to weight ratio cars on the planet. There is no need for more HP. If it was 700 people would have wanted to become 800. That battle will never be won. With that said there are a few problems. The 2013 rollout was not ideal and the marketing cars did have problems which makes the whole line look bad. New tires have really hurt performance on the car, but are being addressed.

Bruce

[KRATEDISEASE]

The Gen2 won a comparison test?? I have never seen that. The 2000 ACR did come in 2nd in one comparo (C&D "Yankee Boomers" - between the then new 2001 Z06 and Mustang Cobra R), otherwise it always finished dead last. If you have that comparison that it won, I would love to read it.

-Nick

1) Google Motor trend "Top gun" 1997 and 1998.

2)Google Car and Driver 1997 viper vs Porsche turbo.

3 Google Viper vs sport bike Car and Driver

You can buy the magazine back issues on ebay.... here are the links to some auctions of the reading material you need to study.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOR-TREND-1997-MAY-GTO-SUPER-CAR-SHOOTOUT-ZX2-/390739985345?pt=Magazines&hash=item5af9eb03c1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motor-Trend-Magazine-May-1998-/380330268135?pt=Magazines&hash=item588d7355e7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOR-TREND-Magazine-July-1999-Top-Speed-Shootout-/200574352774?pt=Magazines&hash=item2eb329bd86

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-and-Driver-Magazine-December-1996-Car-vs-Bike-Viper-GTS-vs-1000cc-Superbike-/301082895393?pt=Magazines&hash=item4619f06421


http://www.ebay.com/itm/July-1997-Car-and-Driver-Dodge-Viper-GTS-Jeep-Cherokee-Sport-Ford-Explorer-Sport-/390566256360?pt=Magazines&hash=item5aef901ee8

[VENOM V]

Careful what you say, you'll end up In the naysayers club with the rest of us. Your opinion should be kept to yourself on an open forum chatt site. especially when your a member.
Hmm ...did I get that right?:stickmen_burningsti

Slither, the issue with your posts is that you're not just posting your opinion, you are spinning not unlike a politician or lawyer, sometimes making patently false claims and stating them as fact. Nick did an excellent job of debunking your myth that the previous gen Vipers were superior to all comers. It is no different with the Gen V today- even in the media, the Gen V fares well in some comparos (MT TA test- Ralph's revenge, or the Road and Track comparison with the SLS) and not well in others. And even though many have pointed out that it is a more competitive sports car world today than ever, and that ever increasing emissions and safety standards put constraints on the Viper's development team, you refuse to acknowledge these realities.

The real issue that I have with your posts is that I find your agenda disrespectful to your fellow Viper brothers. Whether you like it or not, we the gen V owners are as passionate about our machines as previous gen owners. You come on the Gen V site with the intent of proving to all that the gen V is a failure and not worthy of your bucket list, lol. I've got news for you, I would not buy a previous gen Viper for my own reasons but I don't go on those forums and trash talk the cars month after month. I also have several friends that may soon purchase C7 Vettes. I'm happy for them even though the car is not for me, because it's the car that calls to their passion and fits their budget.

While some such as Troublemaker have the goal of learning about the car through legitimate debate and open minded discussion, your agenda is clear. You have no interest in ever owning the car, you just want to trash it. What motivates such an agenda? Envy? Are you feeling like the importance of your previous gens is threatened now that a new more refined, more capable model is out? Can't afford it? I have no idea what your issue is, but why else would you be here if you don't have one? Please enlighten me. Your behavior approaches that of a troll.

Why do you feel the need to come to a forum to trash a car you never intend to buy? Have some respect for your fellow and prospective Viper owners and go somewhere else if you have nothing constructive to say on this forum.

[former345bhpLS1]

1) Google Motor trend "Top gun" 1997 and 1998.

2)Google Car and Driver 1997 viper vs Porsche turbo.

3 Google Viper vs sport bike Car and Driver

You can buy the magazine back issues on ebay.... here are the links to some auctions of the reading material you need to study.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOR-TREND-1997-MAY-GTO-SUPER-CAR-SHOOTOUT-ZX2-/390739985345?pt=Magazines&hash=item5af9eb03c1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motor-Trend-Magazine-May-1998-/380330268135?pt=Magazines&hash=item588d7355e7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOR-TREND-Magazine-July-1999-Top-Speed-Shootout-/200574352774?pt=Magazines&hash=item2eb329bd86

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-and-Driver-Magazine-December-1996-Car-vs-Bike-Viper-GTS-vs-1000cc-Superbike-/301082895393?pt=Magazines&hash=item4619f06421


http://www.ebay.com/itm/July-1997-Car-and-Driver-Dodge-Viper-GTS-Jeep-Cherokee-Sport-Ford-Explorer-Sport-/390566256360?pt=Magazines&hash=item5aef901ee8

Hi Kratedisease,

Luckily the GTS vs Sportbike is now available online:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/car-vs-bike-dodge-viper-gts-vs-yamaha-yzf1000r-comparison-test

The I have read the other articles, excluding the C&D Viper vs Turbo vs NSX-T.

The MotorTrend top speed shootouts (Top Gun) are strictly about numbers with subjective commentary. Your right, the Viper did well in those shootouts posting either the best or nearly best performance specs for most, if not all categories. You'll notice that in the 1996 Top Gun - the Porsche Turbo still posted quicker 0-60 and 1/4 mile times (lower trap speed). The AWD turbo cars were always tough opponents and this has not changed. There are a lot more of them these days, of course.

However, this has not changed - the Viper is still at the top or near the top in Magazine comparisons with the performance numbers. Even in the M/T Best Driver's it still is posting some of the best numbers, especially for Lap times.

The Viper always posted good numbers, but didn't fare well when editors were asked to pick their favorite or if they added up points for various features the way they classically do to assign 1st vs 6th (or whatever number).

My point here is that things have not changed since the 1990s through today (nor do I want them to). The Viper is a performer, but it is work to drive it and most editor's will not pick it instead of a Porsche or Ferrari.

I am not downing the car, as I mentioned above it is my FAVORITE CAR (Gen2 and GenV). I just want to recall the past accurately.

-Nick

[slitherv10]

Slither, the issue with your posts is that you're not just posting your opinion, your are spinning, sometimes making patently false claims and stating them as fact. Nick did an excellent job of debunking your myth that the previous gen Vipers were superior to all comers. It is no different with the Gen V today- even in the media, the Gen V fairs well in some comparos (MT TA test- Ralph's revenge, or the Road and Track comparison with the SLS) and not well in others. And even though many have pointed out that it is a more competitive sports car world today than ever, and that ever increasing emissions and safety standards put constraints on the Viper's development team, you refuse to acknowledge these realities.

The real issue that I have with your posts is that I find your agenda disrespectful to your fellow Viper brothers. Whether you like it or not, we the gen V owners are as passionate about our machines as previous gen owners. You come on the Gen V site with the intent of proving to all that the gen V is a failure and not worthy of your bucket list, lol. I've got news for you, I would not buy a previous gen Viper for my own reasons but I don't go on those forums and trash talk the cars month after month. I also have several friends that may soon purchase C7 Vettes. I'm happy for them even though the car is not for me, because it's the car that calls to their passion and fits their budget.

While some such as Troublemaker have the goal of learning about the car through legitimate debate and open minded discussion, your agenda is clear. You have no interest in ever owning the car, you just want to trash it. What motivates such an agenda? Envy? Are you feeling like the importance of your previous gens is threatened now that a new more refined, more capable model is out? Can't afford it? I have no idea what your issue is, but why else would you be here if you don't have one? Please enlighten me? Your behavior approaches that of a troll.

Why do you feel the need to come to a forum to trash a car you never intend to buy? Have some respect for your fellow and prospective Viper owners and go somewhere else if you have nothing constructive to say on this forum.


So basically in a nut shell what your saying is if my opinion does not suit you or others that I should keep it to myself. If it is not constructive and destructive to you then it should be just that.
I got news for you, lots of my posts have been backed up and agreed with by many here other than a few clan members that I have noticed moved over from the other 2 sites. I for one don't care for your or the other buddy clans that kiss each others behind with support when someone like me who has an opinion to say is mauled or debunked by a small few who feel they need to group up as they have and had elsewhere and start to build it here on the VOA.
I did not realize you speak for everyone here. I have ny thoughts and opinions and will continue to post them here. It is not in your hands to dictate what is constructive or destructive. It is in the minds of others. Like I said, many here have supported my thoughts and opinions. If it hit a sore spot for you and a few other Gen 5 owners on what I have to say, oh well,, suck it up. If you want to be part of a forum, you need to understand that everyone has an opinion. That is what it is....an opinion....I have never stated or quoted something as a fact. I have always refer it to others comments and the market. If I have a fact, I post a link to it if not, its my OPINION. I am on the viper site and a member here to give it. As far as trolling is considered, I have been on the Alley as a by stander and have been played a joke on and verbal abused for not getting a joke that was played on me, on me... and was abused by jak__s's with a few being members here that act like goody goddies and dumbass's on the other sites. I do not troll, I am not 16 and play jokes and I do not believe that the more posts or years you own or have plagued these forums makes you a somebody. Nor do I support certain individuals and jump on band wagons to lash out to certain member like most do here. I stand alone and have every right to say what a want. Weather you or any else who feels like you cares or not. You say you find my posts disrespectful to members...who...tell me who...I would like to know...who, a few of your buddies or ones you want exceptance from?!! Be your own man buddy. Join the club and enjoy what everyone has to offer, not just the ones that suit you. You can't get along with everyone all of the time, but, hyou can get along with some, some of the time. Stick with those ones and don't worry about me and how I affect others. That is not for you to dictate.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Look, if the Viper had 800 HP the Porsche guy would still most likely not buy it. Neither would the Lambo or Ferrari guy. I totally agree.

I just know that if it had 700+ HP ( 750 would be prime) I know that I would buy it regardless that it would never have an automatic. I never bought a C5 corvette because they were also under powered relative to the competition at the time. Even the C5 Z06 was somewhat weak at 405HP in my opinion. But when the C6 came out with the Z06 I was like WOW.

For me HP sells.

I like strippers, Horsepower, beer, money and sex.

Some people prefer a good novel, art, poetry and the opera

I get it.....to each his own.

[slitherv10]

Look, if the Viper had 800 HP the Porsche guy would still most likely not buy it. Neither would the Lambo or Ferrari guy. I totally agree.

I just know that if it had 700+ HP ( 750 would be prime) I know that I would buy it regardless that it would never have an automatic. I never bought a C5 corvette because they were also under powered relative to the competition at the time. Even the C5 Z06 was somewhat weak at 405HP in my opinion. But when the C6 came out with the Z06 I was like WOW.

For me HP sells.

I like strippers, Horsepower, beer, money and sex.

Some people prefer a good novel, art, poetry and the opera

I get it.....to each his own.

I won't add my thoughts here as mine will only get hacked to death on how negative they are...so....

I'll just agree and say...good post...my thoughts exactly.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Slither, the issue with your posts is that you're not just posting your opinion, you are spinning not unlike a politician or lawyer, sometimes making patently false claims and stating them as fact. Nick did an excellent job of debunking your myth that the previous gen Vipers were superior to all comers. It is no different with the Gen V today- even in the media, the Gen V fares well in some comparos (MT TA test- Ralph's revenge, or the Road and Track comparison with the SLS) and not well in others. And even though many have pointed out that it is a more competitive sports car world today than ever, and that ever increasing emissions and safety standards put constraints on the Viper's development team, you refuse to acknowledge these realities.

The real issue that I have with your posts is that I find your agenda disrespectful to your fellow Viper brothers. Whether you like it or not, we the gen V owners are as passionate about our machines as previous gen owners. You come on the Gen V site with the intent of proving to all that the gen V is a failure and not worthy of your bucket list, lol. I've got news for you, I would not buy a previous gen Viper for my own reasons but I don't go on those forums and trash talk the cars month after month. I also have several friends that may soon purchase C7 Vettes. I'm happy for them even though the car is not for me, because it's the car that calls to their passion and fits their budget.

While some such as Troublemaker have the goal of learning about the car through legitimate debate and open minded discussion, your agenda is clear. You have no interest in ever owning the car, you just want to trash it. What motivates such an agenda? Envy? Are you feeling like the importance of your previous gens is threatened now that a new more refined, more capable model is out? Can't afford it? I have no idea what your issue is, but why else would you be here if you don't have one? Please enlighten me. Your behavior approaches that of a troll.

Why do you feel the need to come to a forum to trash a car you never intend to buy? Have some respect for your fellow and prospective Viper owners and go somewhere else if you have nothing constructive to say on this forum.

Venom V, I fully understand your position.

You bought the gen5 Viper because for you it meets your needs. It has mind blowing styling, a awesome engine, a first class interior, and awesome ride and handling.
I fully get it. No one is knocking you. You have a beautiful car and we all know that. NO ONE IS knocking you that you bought a gen5. You bought the American "Ferrari" or the American super car. You do not need to defend your decision. You do not need to defend the Gen5 Viper.

BUT, despite of that please do not complain that some of us are POUNDING the table with our fists demanding that SRT Viper produce a Viper with 700+ HP.
We are in the group that, despite your claims, will easily and quickly buy the Viper if it had 700+ HP.

Back in 1991 the corvette had 245HP in the base car. Although I liked the Corvette a lot, I just was not going to part with the money to buy one when the 1991 Ford Mustang had 225HP in the base car. BUT when in 1992 the LT1 engine came out and made 300 HP, I was like at the Chevy dealer ordering a new Corvette that week. Yes the HP and performance does make a difference. Corvette added the HP because the platform was already 9 years old. That bump in HP to the Corvette was a lot in 1992 when only Ferrari and Lambo had 300 or more HP. Then you could throw on a Supercharger and BOOM you were in Ferrari Testarossa territory.

Just like when I buy my air conditioners, I buy the units with 1/3 to 1/2 extra BTU's over what is recommended, I like MORE power.

[ViperSmith]

The gen v will not have 700hp from the factory. The cost of recertification is just too much.

So you are wasting your time and people are tired of the complaints, because we realize it simply is not going to change.

If there was a chance it could change, perhaps your complaints would have an ear to listen, but since reality dictates it won't happen, the horse has been best to death.

[former345bhpLS1]

Look, if the Viper had 800 HP the Porsche guy would still most likely not buy it. Neither would the Lambo or Ferrari guy. I totally agree.

I just know that if it had 700+ HP ( 750 would be prime) I know that I would buy it regardless that it would never have an automatic. I never bought a C5 corvette because they were also under powered relative to the competition at the time. Even the C5 Z06 was somewhat weak at 405HP in my opinion. But when the C6 came out with the Z06 I was like WOW.

For me HP sells.

I like strippers, Horsepower, beer, money and sex.

Some people prefer a good novel, art, poetry and the opera

I get it.....to each his own.

I totally agree with you on this point. The GenV would've made a bigger impact if it had 700-750 bhp. Look at the stir that the Ferrari F12 created with 730 hp, it was also the only new car with a big bump in power compared to it's direct predecessor (600-730!). The Aventador, Porsche turbo, new 911 GT3, new 911, new M3/4, and C7 corvette all have power bumps of 20-35 bhp compared to the outgoing car. These are tough times for power bumps, but more is more when it comes to sports car.

I'm just glad that SRT still built the GenV even though reaching 700 hp NA was not feasible, that would have been a tragedy. The jump in power from the GenIII-GenIV was huge and set a tough benchmark for the future. 600-640 is more inline with it's competition and the challenges of building big power amongst all of these regulations (though no car in history has been viewed as underrate with 600+ HP!).

I'm just glad they did what they did, the experience on the road is fantastic. Plus, you could do headers/catback and approach or reach 700 bhp.

-Nick

[05Commemorative]

1) Google Motor trend "Top gun" 1997 and 1998.

2)Google Car and Driver 1997 viper vs Porsche turbo.

3 Google Viper vs sport bike Car and Driver

You can buy the magazine back issues on ebay.... here are the links to some auctions of the reading material you need to study.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOR-TREND-1997-MAY-GTO-SUPER-CAR-SHOOTOUT-ZX2-/390739985345?pt=Magazines&hash=item5af9eb03c1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motor-Trend-Magazine-May-1998-/380330268135?pt=Magazines&hash=item588d7355e7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTOR-TREND-Magazine-July-1999-Top-Speed-Shootout-/200574352774?pt=Magazines&hash=item2eb329bd86

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-and-Driver-Magazine-December-1996-Car-vs-Bike-Viper-GTS-vs-1000cc-Superbike-/301082895393?pt=Magazines&hash=item4619f06421


http://www.ebay.com/itm/July-1997-Car-and-Driver-Dodge-Viper-GTS-Jeep-Cherokee-Sport-Ford-Explorer-Sport-/390566256360?pt=Magazines&hash=item5aef901ee8

Are we really discussing articles from 1997? 17yrs ago?

[KRATEDISEASE]

The gen v will not have 700hp from the factory. The cost of recertification is just too much.

So you are wasting your time and people are tired of the complaints, because we realize it simply is not going to change.

If there was a chance it could change, perhaps your complaints would have an ear to listen, but since reality dictates it won't happen, the horse has been best to death.

Do you ever feel that your life is being controlled by others ? Do you feel that you are being held back from your true potential ?

Do you have difficulty with criticism ? Do you have bouts of anger if people do not agree with you ?

Do you wish to achieve more, but feel like you are trapped in a rut ? Are negative thoughts holding you back ?

I recommend Dianetics . It is available in paperback.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Are we really discussing articles from 1997? 17yrs ago?

Yes, RETRO magazine articles are COOL.

[ViperSmith]

190hp disadvantage to the Gen V.

Complain about hp in the gen v

Lol

[KRATEDISEASE]

190hp disadvantage to the Gen V.

Complain about hp in the gen v

Lol

I NEVER complain about my ROE supercharger that was recently dynoed tested producing 590HP at the rear wheels with only a measly 5lbs boost.

Would you like to drag race sometime ? My car runs low 11's consistently.

Tony Robbins has some great Audio Tapes, in case you prefer that over Dianetics.

[VRYALT3R3D]

True. in 1997 the Viper was on the covers of all the car magazines winning EVERY comparo. Now the gen 5 gets last place consistently. Laughing stock on the sales floor and the magazine reviews.

Sorry but the above applies.

Who buys a car purely based on what a magazine says? The only way for someone to know that particular car is good for them is to sit in one and drive one.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Who buys a car purely based on what a magazine says? The only way for someone to know that particular car is good for them is to sit in one and drive one.

True, but I do not have the equipment or time to test the performance of every car that I might be in the market for.

[VRYALT3R3D]

True, but I do not have the equipment or time to test the performance of every car that I might be in the market for.

Butt dyno!

[Newport Viper]

I love this thread. It fun to toss internet stones every now and then. Soon as winter lifts, you east coasters will settle down and go drive. :smileys-car-driving

[KRATEDISEASE]

Butt dyno!

had the time to have my car dynoed by someone else since it needed a retune of the programming that was somehow lost or corrupted.

Surely you can understand I cannot check 1/4 mile results, lateral G results, and braking in feet results on every car that I am interested in since the dealers do not allow testing on un-purchased cars. Besides for $10 bucks a year the magazine will do it for me.

- - - Updated - - -


I love this thread. It fun to toss internet stones every now and then. Soon as winter lifts, you east coasters will settle down and go drive. :smileys-car-driving

Yup, no time for this chatter when the weather brakes. 100 % correct .

[ViperSmith]

A thread discussing the styling of the car has become yet another thread complaining about hp by the same people who complain about hp in every other thread.

[slitherv10]

Wow...incredible how some of you are acting... The title of this thread is asking for both opinions in the way it was worded. If your here, you should accept both sides of the story and not get let personal feeling get in the way.


We get it guys (especially Gen 5 owners), we get...you bought a great car, the best Viper yet, that our Gen's are below standards and not up to par to the gen 5, we get it people.
Were not bashing this car everyone, its called a wish list or hopeful imagery, its something us Viperholics would have loved to have seen in the new car. Its our opinions and thoughts of what WE as individuals would have liked to see. its called conversation. If we were bashing we would be using words like worthless and waste of money. No one ever said that. We are just giving our 2 cents as you guys do about what makes it so great. Its a two way conversation. Without naysayers you would have no conversation. If we all agreed to everything there would be no discussions. Its what makes the world go round. A topic is opened up and people give their thoughts towards it. Good or bad, its individual preference. No one is here to knock any one else or put you down for making a decision or a comment as most of you are assuming and responding.
We are all here for the passion of the Viper. We, for the most part, are members who payed into a Club that can allow us to give our insights towards the Viper.
You guys have to stop beating your horses to death and suck it up when you hear a comment that does not suit your purpose. Not tell us that we are beating ours to death. Its what makes conversation. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
You have a few people here that when things don't go their way or they hear things that they disagree with, they act like little children and find ways to downgrade what you believe, wish or assume. That is only versions that are negative. If you agree with them and kiss their ass they love you. Your in the clan. your a bud. Your backed up. lol...this is not a brotherhood people, its a car club. Ina brotherhood, members do not bash members personally. They certainly do not find clans within themselves as in the other sites.
No trolls here, just members and enthusiasts with vision, opinion and passion. If you cant see the trees beyond the forest then maybe you need to stay out of the forest.

[KRATEDISEASE]

A thread discussing the styling of the car has become yet another thread complaining about hp by the same people who complain about hp in every other thread.

I was wondering when someone would notice !! very astute of you to point that out.

Everyone was getting so huffy and puffy while typing that they forgot that the thread was solely about the styling of the gen5 and if people thought the styling was too retro.

[VRYALT3R3D]

How long does each generation of the Viper last? 4-5 years? If so, the Gen V is at half of its lifecycle. Maybe 2015MY will see a midcycle refresh for the vert and ACR. I personally love how the Gen V looks right now.

[slitherv10]

I love this thread. It fun to toss internet stones every now and then. Soon as winter lifts, you east coasters will settle down and go drive. :smileys-car-driving

Totally agree. It does put a damper on us out here. If you noticed the complainers , its all us guys out here. Except the Florida guys.

[commandomatt]

A thread discussing the styling of the car has become yet another thread complaining about hp by the same people who complain about hp in every other thread.

Why do you consistently have to just bug in and tell us whats wrong with threads that you don't agree with ??

Just don't read them if they bother you. Its that simple. Go away and talk about the weather....that is certainly more productive.

Matt

[KRATEDISEASE]

How long does each generation of the Viper last? 4-5 years? If so, the Gen V is at half of its lifecycle. Maybe 2015MY will see a midcycle refresh for the vert and ACR. I personally love how the Gen V looks right now.

i say the ENGINE gets a mid cycle refresh !! keep the rest the same.

[slitherv10]

Why do you consistently have to just bug in and tell us whats wrong with threads that you don't agree with ??

Just don't read them if they bother you. Its that simple. Go away and talk about the weather....that is certainly more productive.

Matt

Matt

He continues to do that over and over again. Seems to me he is looking for a clan to join and backs up certain people to gain recognition.

I try not to pay attention to him anymore, until he feels he needs to post another worthless comment about beating a dead horse...If the shoe fits....

[Troublemaker]

A thread discussing the styling of the car has become yet another thread complaining about hp by the same people who complain about hp in every other thread.

Not true, I love the way it looks, even the headlights have grown on me. Lets see if what has been said is true about the codes being released, that should take care of any HP gripes.

[slitherv10]

Do you ever feel that your life is being controlled by others ? Do you feel that you are being held back from your true potential ?

Do you have difficulty with criticism ? Do you have bouts of anger if people do not agree with you ?

Do you wish to achieve more, but feel like you are trapped in a rut ? Are negative thoughts holding you back ?

I recommend Dianetics . It is available in paperback.



LOL:smilielol:...that is pure art....well done!!!:owned:

:t1236:

[whitebeard]

Gentlemen, Lets keep the thread on topic. Personal attacks are unwelcome and unprofessional. Yes this is a web forum, and we can agree to disagree. But there is no need to trade barbs in such a way. This isn't brawlhall or wackbag.

[ViperSmith]

Why do you consistently have to just bug in and tell us whats wrong with threads that you don't agree with ??

Just don't read them if they bother you. Its that simple. Go away and talk about the weather....that is certainly more productive.

Matt

Matt

I say they create a "Viper Suggestion Box" where people who simply want to reiterate their same complaints about the car can go discuss why they won't be purchasing them.

For awhile this forum was actually useful, but it sadly is turning into the same that was in the VCA forum.

- - - Updated - - -


Not true, I love the way it looks, even the headlights have grown on me. Lets see if what has been said is true about the codes being released, that should take care of any HP gripes.

Wasn't referring to you :)

[VENOM V]

Venom V, I fully understand your position.

You bought the gen5 Viper because for you it meets your needs. It has mind blowing styling, a awesome engine, a first class interior, and awesome ride and handling.

<snippetty snip>

BUT, despite of that please do not complain that some of us are POUNDING the table with our fists demanding that SRT Viper produce a Viper with 700+ HP.
We are in the group that, despite your claims, will easily and quickly buy the Viper if it had 700+ HP.

Just like when I buy my air conditioners, I buy the units with 1/3 to 1/2 extra BTU's over what is recommended, I like MORE power.

I'm with you on this Krate. In fact if the ACR comes with 700hp, I will sell my first born to get it! So keep pounding, lol! But as Harold said, it's not realistic for that big of a bump. Three problems with that- first, try to pass emissions with a package that will achieve it; second- good luck keeping the Viper's powertrain bulletproof as Vipers are famous for. Road courses are by far the harshest environment, if you strain the engine too hard you end up like the C6 Z06 where there have been reliability issues here and there; third- not enough budget. Now this last point is a legitimate gripe. Fiat makes enough money to give SRT enough to develop and market their US halo car. Enough with the shoestring budget. Fund the program properly or doom it to failure.

However rather than pouring money into the engine there are more important areas to focus on- convertible, ACR, tire technology, sophisticated active aero, advanced suspension and differential technology, weight reduction, a high perf DCT or some sort of track worthy auto, Etc. More HP is not the solution to track dominance, not nearly as important than these other factors. Track dominance and a well balanced package that is at home on weekend getaways as it is on the track- that is what will drive sales. HP would help too, but to a lesser extent. Just look at Corvette and Porsche, they are looking at the big picture rather than fixating on HP.

[KRATEDISEASE]

I say they create a "Viper Suggestion Box" where people who simply want to reiterate their same complaints about the car can go discuss why they won't be purchasing them.

For awhile this forum was actually useful, but it sadly is turning into the same that was in the VCA forum.

- - - Updated - - -



Wasn't referring to you :)

Harold, email me your address. I am going to buy you a copy of Dianetics and I will pay for and mail you the Tony Robbins audio CD's so you can listen to them while driving your Viper.

You will be a better person.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Gentlemen, Lets keep the thread on topic. Personal attacks are unwelcome and unprofessional. Yes this is a web forum, and we can agree to disagree. But there is no need to trade barbs in such a way. This isn't brawlhall or wackbag.

Yes, true....but it keeps me laughing.

[slitherv10]

I say they create a "Viper Suggestion Box" where people who simply want to reiterate their same complaints about the car can go discuss why they won't be purchasing them.

For awhile this forum was actually useful, but it sadly is turning into the same that was in the VCA forum.

Well then lighten up and leave people to add suggestions and comments as they feel fit. Maybe once in a while you can post conversational replies instead of just 6 word personal attacks on why you don't agree. Take your own advice and stop beating the dead horse. We get it, you don't want more HP and you love everything about the new car. Great, all the power to you.

- - - Updated - - -



Wasn't referring to you :)

Of course not, trying to join the bandwagon with him...lol..too funny. Even though trouble maker has been quoting very similar responses as some of us, you have chosen to leave his alone...hmm...wonder why. Maybe he words it well enough for you to get it? I don't know. I give up.

Just do some of us the favor and keep your jabs to yourself.


I'm with you on this Krate. In fact if the ACR comes with 700hp, I will sell my first born to get it! So keep pounding, lol! But as Harold said, it's not realistic for that big of a bump. Three problems with that- first, try to pass emissions with a package that will achieve it; second- good luck keeping the Viper's powertrain bulletproof as Vipers are famous for. Road courses are by far the harshest environment, if you strain the engine too hard you end up like the C6 Z06 where there have been reliability issues here and there; third- not enough budget. Now this last point is a legitimate gripe. Fiat makes enough money to give SRT enough to develop and market their US halo car. Enough with the shoestring budget. Fund the program properly or doom it to failure.

However rather than pouring money into the engine there are more important areas to focus on- convertible, ACR, tire technology, sophisticated active aero, advanced suspension and differential technology, weight reduction, a high perf DCT or some sort of track worthy auto, Etc. More HP is not the solution to track dominance, not nearly as important than these other factors. Track dominance and a well balanced package that is at home on weekend getaways as it is on the track- that is what will drive sales. HP would help too, but to a lesser extent. Just look at Corvette and Porsche, they are looking at the big picture rather than fixating on HP.

Ok...now were talking the same language. Well put here. I get Krates point and see that some people can see the forest between the trees.

Well posted VENOMV

[KRATEDISEASE]

I'm with you on this Krate. In fact if the ACR comes with 700hp, I will sell my first born to get it! So keep pounding, lol! But as Harold said, it's not realistic for that big of a bump. Three problems with that- first, try to pass emissions with a package that will achieve it; second- good luck keeping the Viper's powertrain bulletproof as Vipers are famous for. Road courses are by far the harshest environment, if you strain the engine too hard you end up like the C6 Z06 where there have been reliability issues here and there; third- not enough budget. Now this last point is a legitimate gripe. Fiat makes enough money to give SRT enough to develop and market their US halo car. Enough with the shoestring budget. Fund the program properly or doom it to failure.

However rather than pouring money into the engine there are more important areas to focus on- convertible, ACR, tire technology, sophisticated active aero, advanced suspension and differential technology, weight reduction, a high perf DCT or some sort of track worthy auto, Etc. More HP is not the solution to track dominance, not nearly as important than these other factors. Track dominance and a well balanced package that is at home on weekend getaways as it is on the track- that is what will drive sales. HP would help too, but to a lesser extent. Just look at Corvette and Porsche, they are looking at the big picture rather than fixating on HP.


Yes, good intelligent and articulated thoughts.

You are actually starting to convince me that I need to drop my crack-horsepower pipe and get my self checked into horsepower rehab.

let me tell you that it is hard to detox from the HP. What a buzz HP gives.

[commandomatt]

deleted

[V10LEE]

I think if the gen 3, gen 4 body was never produced. Then I think the Gen V styling would be more accepted. As it makes a perfect evolution to the original . This is the problem,and why people say it is a step back..

I own all three generations. When I look at them in the garage I can see why, even my wife agrees.. With that being said, if it was up to me. I would prefer to see the Gen V evolve from the Gen 4 body style..