Check Engine Light on my 2014 GTS

[ViperGeorge]

A day after taking delivery of my 14 GTS it threw a CEL for P0316 - misfires in the first 1000 rpms. I cleared it and it was fine until yesterday. It has 281 miles on it. Last night it threw P0300 - Multiple cylinder misfires, and P0316 again. I have not cleared them and have an appointment to take it to my Viper Tech on Monday. A friend at SRT recommends recalibrating the "TEC-Tooth Error Correction". Anyone else have this problem? If so what was the fix?

[Policy Limits]

Never heard of these codes; definitely take it to a dealer & keep us informed.

[ViperSmith]

On the VCA site there was someone that had a CEL I think that was sort of the same, I can't recall at all who it was sadly, sorry for a useless post

[hawk02]

Dealer time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ACRucrazy]

Heard of these issues on IVs after the Mopar PCM was installed and the Tooth Correction relearn was not done properly. Maybe it just needs a simple relearn.

[Voice of Reason]

Do you feel a stumble or a miss? I had P0300 check engine light show up during an auto cross event last year. The check engine light went away after the drive home and it hasn't come on since. I never felt a miss even on the drive home. But a couple weeks ago when I started it to warm everything up after sitting for 2 months I think I may have felt a fairly regular miss while it was idling. I'll be watching for that in the spring on my first drive to see if I have to head to the dealer.

[ViperGeorge]

It did feel a little rough on initial start up but then it seemed fine.

[Coloviper]

George;

I wonder if it is having issues with the winterized and oxygenated fuels we use in winter time here in the Rockies. At 281 miles, did you fill it up here not too long ago? It is a pretty sensitive system in that new GEN V and I know our winter fuel is probably not the best nor in the engine's calibration maps for compensation. Just a thought? BTW since we are experienced an insane snow storm yesterday and today, will give you a kitchen pass on having to bring the new Viper to the Holiday Party tomorrow night. See you tomorrow night!

[ViperGeorge]

George;

I wonder if it is having issues with the winterized and oxygenated fuels we use in winter time here in the Rockies. At 281 miles, did you fill it up here not too long ago? It is a pretty sensitive system in that new GEN V and I know our winter fuel is probably not the best nor in the engine's calibration maps for compensation. Just a thought? BTW since we are experienced an insane snow storm yesterday and today, will give you a kitchen pass on having to bring the new Viper to the Holiday Party tomorrow night. See you tomorrow night!

Well it threw the first code on the original dealer supplied fuel (from Nebraska). I don't know what kind of fuel they have there.

[Jack B]

A little heads up, "Huskers" as in Nebraska. Most states are 15% corn ethanol, Nebraska is 15% fuel, 85% ethanol.


Well it threw the first code on the original dealer supplied fuel (from Nebraska). I don't know what kind of fuel they have there.

[Dan Cragin]

Could be your car needs to learn the adaptive numerator (crank tooth count.). Disconnect the battery, reconnect, then take the car to a place where you can run it up to 4000 rpm in second gear then let off the gas and coast down to idle without hitting the brakes. Do this 3 times. Might fix the issue.

[Policy Limits]

Wasn't surprised to see some quality control issues on 13 MY vehicles as they were first production year but seeing more than one issue posted on 14's raises an eyebrow

[ViperGeorge]

A little heads up, "Huskers" as in Nebraska. Most states are 15% corn ethanol, Nebraska is 15% fuel, 85% ethanol.

Thanks Jack, Hopefully Woodhouse would have known to use better fuel. In any case I've filled it up here with known good gas, still threw the codes.

[Jack B]

That was a joke, you bought the car from Woodhouse, you were dealing with the best.



Thanks Jack, Hopefully Woodhouse would have known to use better fuel. In any case I've filled it up here with known good gas, still threw the codes.

[Policy Limits]

I've seen cars come from Woodhouse with defective doors that pop open, defective horns that sound randomly and now this; they're a great team though & it's probably just a coincidence

[Late Apex]

Sorry to hear this but hey they spend 120 hours on painting. Hope you get a quick cure for all that dough spent.

[mjorgensen]

I've seen cars come from Woodhouse with defective doors that pop open, defective horns that sound randomly and now this; they're a great team though & it's probably just a coincidence

We sell a lot of Vipers, they all get the best ethanol free fuel we have available. We unfortunately cannot uncover every possible issue in a 5 mile PDI inspection. If there were any way to be more thorough then we are with the time and miles buyers would allow I'm willing to take suggestions.

[Policy Limits]

It's not you guys, you're a great team. You didn't make the car. CAAP did; these issues arise from the factory.

The solution is dont buy American 8/p

[Bill Pemberton]

Jack B.,

Actually virtually all Stations in Nebraska are no more than 10% Ethanol. There are some that carry E85 , but the these stations are actually quite hard to find.
We obviously do not fill with E85, just making a comment that this fuel is hard to find and a 15% ethanol/85 gasoline blend I have yet to even see here. As Mark
noted we only use Premium and we select two specific stations that run through a ton of fuel and we have not had problems with.

[Policy Limits]

If a part is defective like a door handle mechanism that pops open and it's replaced under warranty do they replace it with the same part or is there a part upgrade?

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

I have seen 'issues' like this when the PCM goes to sleep at or near sea-level in one humidity and temp range, and is then transported and 'wakes up' in a significantly different environment: ++Altitude; + / - Temp; + / - Humidity; And, the reverse can be true too.

Remember that "A/C ON" helps the adaptive learn its low-RPM program much faster


0316 is a 'misfire detected at startup <1000 RPM' This is common during the 'adaptive' learning cycles of break-in.
0300 is "multiple cyl misfires" .... a very strange code to have and NOT have rough-running.

Caution: If you discon the battery before a dealer visit, you will LOSE 500+ info codes that the dealer might need to diagnose.

[ViperGeorge]

The car is at the dealer now. Again this is not Woodhouse's issue, they have been great to deal with and I highly recommend them. My local Viper Tech has a call into Chrysler about the codes, not sure what that means at this point. Oh, and the driver's side smart glass doesn't always go up all the way. Weird.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

If a part is defective like a door handle mechanism that pops open and it's replaced under warranty do they replace it with the same part or is there a part upgrade?


Policy: HISSSTORY: If a handful of the same part seems to be a problem, the usual 'warrantee' gets you the exact same part. Warrantee records and Techline calls are tracked to 'reveal' trends. A "trend" can result in a TSB "Technical Svc Bulletin" for dealership repairs, and on RARE occasions can result in an upgraded part. {I could name about 15 such since 1993}

It could also result in an RDC at CAAP "Running Design Change" of parts / procedures with a hand-in-hand TSB to dealers. I can cite a few of those too.

As an owner of a few "First Release" Vipers that did have some early teething-pains, I can choose to feel like a pioneer or like a victim. It is fortunate to have a forum to share the experiences and fixes.... and I assure you that much of the "technical" stuff asked here does quickly make its way to Team Viper . (Including this thread.)

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

The car is at the dealer now. Again this is not Woodhouse's issue, they have been great to deal with and I highly recommend them. My local Viper Tech has a call into Chrysler about the codes, not sure what that means at this point. Oh, and the driver's side smart glass doesn't always go up all the way. Weird.

ALSO: Weird but maybe helpful! The BCM is being affected by something...and I am always suspicious of a common culprit, even in NEW Cars: the BATTERY and/or its connections. Break-in RPMs and cold temps conspire to NOT charge up the battery to handle full-load at startup [could explain startup code 0316. ] Have you had / Do you have a Tender on it? I will ASSume......NOT.

[ViperGeorge]

ALSO: Weird but maybe helpful! The BCM is being affected by something...and I am always suspicious of a common culprit, even in NEW Cars: the BATTERY and/or its connections. Break-in RPMs and cold temps conspire to NOT charge up the battery to handle full-load at startup [could explain startup code 0316. ] Have you had / Do you have a Tender on it? I will ASSume......NOT.

Yes I do have a tender on it when ever it sits longer than a few days. It is my daily driver so it is unusual for it to sit too long.

[ViperSmith]

09viperacr - i've seen that issue as well - is it only when you do the auto-up?

probably about a handful of times i've hit the auto up, the glass goes all the way up and then all the way down. if i slowly put it up it goes up just fine.

[Policy Limits]

Policy: HISSSTORY: If a handful of the same part seems to be a problem, the usual 'warrantee' gets you the exact same part. Warrantee records and Techline calls are tracked to 'reveal' trends. A "trend" can result in a TSB "Technical Svc Bulletin" for dealership repairs, and on RARE occasions can result in an upgraded part. {I could name about 15 such since 1993}

It could also result in an RDC at CAAP "Running Design Change" of parts / procedures with a hand-in-hand TSB to dealers. I can cite a few of those too.

As an owner of a few "First Release" Vipers that did have some early teething-pains, I can choose to feel like a pioneer or like a victim. It is fortunate to have a forum to share the experiences and fixes.... and I assure you that much of the "technical" stuff asked here does quickly make its way to Team Viper . (Including this thread.)

Interesting. First it's like pulling teeth to give away six figs in a horrible economy then you get a six figure product that has defects some of which are basic safety concerns; wouldn't go so far as to pull out a victim card but sounds pretty frustrating. Plus only a small percentage of owners post here so imagine the real magnitude if it.

[ViperGeorge]

Just communicated with my Viper Tech and Chrysler. Chrysler called me to give me an update. Apparently because my tech called the issue in to them they assigned a customer advocate. That's pretty cool. JonB also heard from Dick Winkles who confirmed that TEC must be relearned. They are reflashing program on the PCM (there is some kind of update although I don't know for what yet) and then they are relearning TEC (Tooth Error Correction). They believe this will fix problem. Viper Tech also found codes in Body Controller having to do with window glass. He went through a procedure (not the relearn one that we all know) on his diagnostic computer and he believes this is fixed too.

All's well that ends well. Keeping fingers crossed and will keep you all posted if the problem returns. I'll also try to get some information about the PCM update.

[mjorgensen]

Every Viper that comes through lately seems to need the PCM update, but there is no description of what it is changing/addressing.

[Jack B]

I believe the "window glass" soft code deals with a counter that coordinates window up/down when you close the door. Those could have been there from the factory or from any operation that removes the battery - Mark, is that correct?


Just communicated with my Viper Tech and Chrysler. Chrysler called me to give me an update. Apparently because my tech called the issue in to them they assigned a customer advocate. That's pretty cool. JonB also heard from Dick Winkles who confirmed that TEC must be relearned. They are reflashing program on the PCM (there is some kind of update although I don't know for what yet) and then they are relearning TEC (Tooth Error Correction). They believe this will fix problem. Viper Tech also found codes in Body Controller having to do with window glass. He went through a procedure (not the relearn one that we all know) on his diagnostic computer and he believes this is fixed too.

All's well that ends well. Keeping fingers crossed and will keep you all posted if the problem returns. I'll also try to get some information about the PCM update.

[ViperGeorge]

Well my Tech updated the PCM and tried to relearn TEC according to the directions provided by SRT support. His computer could not complete the second part of this step. The directions provided by SRT said to accelerate the car from 45 to 55 in second gear while keeping MPG above 15 (or in the green on the display). Really?! 15MPG while accelerating in 2nd while driving a Viper?! No way. He couldn't keep the MPG that high and his diagnostic computer would not complete the relearn. Car seems to run ok and has no codes. He will contact SRT again tomorrow to find out what is going on. We are expecting snow tonight so I picked it up. More to come.

By the way, I don't know what the reflash was for.

[Coloviper]

Maybe they re-flashed it for 700 hp? Sorry you are having to go through this with a new car George!

[ViperGeorge]

My tech was told that the reflash was to correct an issue with an EVAP code P0456. I didn't have that code but Chrysler recommended the update anyway. Still waiting for an update from Chrysler as to what to do about relearn process. Will keep you posted.

[ViperGeorge]

Latest update from someone who really knows.

"In order for the misfire system to work properly, all three tooth error corrections (or adaptive numerators 0, 1 & 2) MUST be learned. The first numerator is a de-fueled coast down from about 45mph in 2nd gear, that one is easy and it sounds like it did learn. The second numerator is a fueled learn to 4000 rpm in 2nd gear and moderate throttle – he may have to drag the brake a little to achieve the proper engine airflow of 350 – 450 mg/stroke. The last adaptive numerator is a fueled learn at about 5000 rpm in 2nd gear – again he may have to drag the brakes a little while holding the engine speed to achieve an engine airflow of between 380 – 480 mg/stroke. This isn’t easy but it’s not rocket science either and most times is not that difficult to do. Remember the car must be at operating condition and have at least ¼ tank of fuel for the learn to take place."

Looks like I'll have to take the car back after the snow clears.

[Coloviper]

Geez did the guy who programmed this PCM also have an X-Box. All these weird moves, sounds like a video game. Hope it fixes it George! Judging by the weather this week, doesn't sound like you will be picking it up anytime soon.

[ViperGeorge]

Geez did the guy who programmed this PCM also have an X-Box. All these weird moves, sounds like a video game. Hope it fixes it George! Judging by the weather this week, doesn't sound like you will be picking it up anytime soon.

Rick, I picked it up yesterday even though Glynn did not complete the relearn process. I'm travelling on Saturday and with the weather this week it would have been stuck there for 2 weeks. I think X-Box would be easier to learn than the car's PCM. Thank the EPA and all the greenies for that. I wonder how on Earth they set the PCM up when they build the car. I know they dyno them at the plant so I wonder if that is how they do it. Do they have a specific drive cycle they follow on the dyno to get the PCM to learn everything? Way too complicated. There's probably more computer code in this car than there was on Apollo 11.

[mnc2886]

Can you try this on a local mustang dyno? Might be easier....

[Policy Limits]

What's the verdict?

[ViperGeorge]

What's the verdict?

No verdict yet, had to leave on a business trip so no time to get it back to the dealer. Dick Winkles says it is definitely the Tooth Error Correction numerators. There are three and they all MUST be relearned. My tech did the first one but then the instructions Chrysler gave him didn't work. Got new instructions from Dick so hopefully we'll get her fixed.

[ViperGeorge]

Picking up the car again tonight. Hopefully its fixed. Apparently the procedure to relearn TEC on a Viper is not the same as what the dealers' computer tells them to do. Also different than what SRT's engineers would do since they have different equipment available to them, in other words the tech cannot follow the procedure that SRT said to follow because of differences in the types of equipment they have. Bottom line is that SRT stepped in to help my tech get it relearned somehow, for that I'm grateful. I'm supposed to know within 8 drive cycles whether it worked. Otherwise I guess an update to the dealer diagnostic computers would need to be made or SRT would have to fly out with their computer. Unfortunate that this problem had to occur but it is nice to see the engineers at SRT get involved with one car's issues. Thanks Dick and company.

[ViperSmith]

Hopefully all behind you now!

[08viperviolet]

09viperacr hope your problem is fixed now. Mine a little different but SRT has been great working with me to correct the problem. They seem much more to customer service then they were a few years ago when still considered a dodge product. Good luck.

[Policy Limits]

You guys have a lot more patience than I do; I'd be jumping up & down

[Dr.Ron]

Old thread, but the last 2 times I was at the track I filled up with 93 at the same gas station I always did on the way there, just a few miles away.
Early on in the day the last 2 times I got a check engine light and the car went into limp mode. After crawling off the track I put my code reader on and got code 0300 (multiple cylinder misfires). The car had felt perfect up until that point. I hit suddenly and killed the power out of nowhere.

I cleared the code with my code reader and the rest of the day was uneventful. I even set new bests each day.

Could that gas station be the cause? This never happened before. The car is stock. 2014 GTS. 8900 miles now. Oil was just changed too. It happened once before and once after the oil change. The only things in common were it happened on the track and getting gas from that same gas station.

Ron