Grinding into 1st gear 2017 GTS

[CerBlue17]

From a roll or down shift into 1st. Will grind and can't get into 1st or slight grind and goes into gear on second try... It's as if clutch not pushed in far enough. Doesn't happen all times put appears to be happening more often. From a complete stop goes into 1st fairly smoothly. Hard pulls 1st thru 4th are fine although a little "notchie" which i believe is normal for this transmission? Car not tracked or abused and was broken in with care.

[7TH_SIGN]

Welcome to the life of owning a GEN V. Take it to the dealer.

[SRT_BluByU]

I dont believe 1st has a synchro...

[Voice of Reason]

In 2 different Gen Vs across 25k miles ive never had a grind going into 1st at any speed. Ever. Sounds like you need some warranty work.

[Track Pack]

I have owned two Gen 5s and never had that problem either...???

[sadil]

Never had this problem. I only grind when I get really lazy with shifts.

[ViperPete]

My car grinds consistently into reverse if I don't go into a forward gear first.
No problems with any forward gears though.

[swexlin]

I have no issues with any gear (knock wood), including reverse.

Pete, I would have that reverse issue looked at.

[CerBlue17]

Definitely have issue...not from lazy shifting..wish I had idea what's going on before bring to dealer.

[GTS21]

Man, these Gen V issues are freaking me out. My Gen II GTS and RT/10 were pretty rock solid.

[98intrigue]

Although it's not a "common" problem, the syncros in our TR6060 transmissions are weak. I had the transmission replaced in my old TA and carbon car. Both were 2014s and built around the same time (coincidence?). The ACR I just purchased has 4k miles on it and although I haven't shifted hard through the gears yet, the car shifts buttery smooth.

[ViperPete]

I have no issues with any gear (knock wood), including reverse.

Pete, I would have that reverse issue looked at.

I have when i first bought the car. The Viper tech said that reverse isn't synchronized and that is a common thing. My T56 in my SRT10 doesn't do that....

[Bleed viper]

I have when i first bought the car. The Viper tech said that reverse isn't synchronized and that is a common thing. My T56 in my SRT10 doesn't do that....

Mine usually does the same, I will normally shift into 5th before going into reverse and no grinding. But if I try to go to reverse straight away I will usually get the grind.

[Steve M]

I have when i first bought the car. The Viper tech said that reverse isn't synchronized and that is a common thing. My T56 in my SRT10 doesn't do that....

Bullshit...reverse is synchronized, as are all the other gears. It shouldn't grind going into any gear, period.

[HobokenViper]

I have a related question..... My brand new 2017 ACR Extreme has a very different feel shifting into 1st gear from a start than my 2008 does. My 2008 doesn't require much gas at all when starting in 1st gear from 0 mph, but it seems that my ACR needs quite a bit more gas to get it moving or I literally stall. Has anyone else experienced something similar to this, is there something weird going on with my car, or is there a legit difference between the Gen IV & V Vipers with their transmissions? Thanks!

[swexlin]

It's the lighter flywheel/clutch in the Gen 5. I almost never stalled my Gen 3. My Gen 5 I stalled twice in 2 miles the first drive I ever took it on, and I still ocassionally do!

[CerBlue17]

Ok..took car out for ride..1,700 miles, 2017 GTS
- From start up into 1st smooth no problem.
-Upshift through all gears was smooth at all speeds no problem
- downshift through 2nd smooth no problem
**-here's the problem- downshift into 1st from 2nd grind and won't engage UNLESS I TRY AGAIN OR COME TO A COMPLETE STOP than it goes into 1st no problem.
_only started happening in last 50 miles.

Synchro? If so, which one?
Slave cylinder(hydrolic)?

Called local dodge dealer left 3 messages for service manager..no call back.

[Vipes]

Welcome to the life of owning a GEN V. Take it to the dealer.

You want another one or you wouldn't still be hanging out with us. :)

[flyboy1of1]

I agree with SWEXLIN, I've stalled mine a few times -at first I thought I was starting out in 3rd. " Live & Learn" Thanks Bob

[7TH_SIGN]

You want another one or you wouldn't still be hanging out with us. :)

I usually stop by and answer any question in my PM box. Always willing to help others. Wouldn't mind an ACR :D

The Viper truly is a special one of a kind machine.

[Jack B]

Bullshit...reverse is synchronized, as are all the other gears. It shouldn't grind going into any gear, period.

Another vote - reverse is synchronized, it should never grind if the synchro's are not worn.

One thing that has not been mentioned, once you shift, remove your hand so there is no preload on the shifter, this wears the synchro's. In effect, do not cruise with your hand on the shifter.

There is a lot of 6060 bashing in this thread, the trans is not always the issue. If your clutch does not quickly and fully release, the synchro's fight their way thru the shift. For information sake, the typical G5 oem clutch appears to release fairly high, however, it does not fully disengage until one or two inches from the floor. That means if your shift is not totally perfect (foot at the floor), you are wearing the synchro's on each shift.

I will see if John Donoto can add to this thread and break down the pros/cons for the 6060.

[CerBlue17]

My question is:
-why does it shift perfectly from 1st to 2nd, but not 2nd to 1st?....unless car completely stopped then no problem going from 2nd to 1st.

[Bill Pemberton]

Frankly the Synchros were upgraded a long time ago and there are very, very few issues with the T6060. Used in Vettes, Hellcats, and more , and definitely heavy duty synchos in first and second --if I remember correctly they are triple cone. Would suggest you get to the closest Dealership , as this is unusual and frankly when one hears about something like this it is usually in the late Fall or Early Winter where someone is trying to force into first when the car is cold and tranny is not warm --common concern regardless of transmission. We hear more problems at our Ford Store during this time of year with the MT-82 ( not anywhere near the solid transmission Tremec makes) as it really needs things warmed up before shifting quickly or even going into first through second.

Good luck , but regardless of the car, if it is cool out , good idea to wait till the tranny is up to temp before shifting quickly.

[swexlin]

Excellent post Bill, thank you.

[CerBlue17]

Thanks Bill. Have appt. with dealership on 12th soonest they can take me. Never tried to jam into gear. Problem regardless of temp..again, only when downshifting into 1st when car is rolling....once car is stopped it down shifts into 1st smoothly....1st to 2nd is also fine. Just looking for opinions as to what may be causing problem since local dealer service manager cant seem to find the office phone to return my calls.

[One Viper Bite]

Thanks Bill. Have appt. with dealership on 12th soonest they can take me. Never tried to jam into gear. Problem regardless of temp..again, only when downshifting into 1st when car is rolling....once car is stopped it down shifts into 1st smoothly....1st to 2nd is also fine. Just looking for opinions as to what may be causing problem since local dealer service manager cant seem to find the office phone to return my calls.

Can I ask at what speed you are waiting to downshift into 1st?

Also, have you also tried rev matching by blipping the throttle before shifting into 1st?

[DonatoEng]

From your description of grinding into 1st, it sounds like you have an issue with the 1st gear blocker rings.
All 6060 Viper transmissions are fully synchronized including reverse. 1st and 2nd are triple cone and 3-6 are double cone. There was an issue with 2nd in the Gen IV Vipers and Challengers with heavy grinding when cold that was traced to the brass/bronze blocker rings not bedding in and slipping. The fix was to utilize the triple Carbon lined blocker rings and the others remained brass/bronze lined. The upgrade is to use the hybird carbon/bronze lined blocker rings for improved shifting both up and down in gears 1, 3-6.

The other issue of stalling in a Gen V has to do with the revised gear ratios starting in 2013. 1st gear went from a 2.66 to a 2.26 ratio. The other item that adds to that is the lighter flywheel which took away from the inertia helping to starting to move the car at light throttle. The Gen V set up is great for road track events at the cost of low speed driveability.
I have converted several Gen V transmissions back to the Gen IV 2.66 1st gear set to the delight of the owners.

John

[AZTVR]

My question is:
-why does it shift perfectly from 1st to 2nd, but not 2nd to 1st?....unless car completely stopped then no problem going from 2nd to 1st.

There are two different synchro ring assemblies involved. One acting on 1st gear engagement and a different one working with second gear. John Donato describes them both as being triple cone style. I think that they both use the same part #; but, I'm not certain.

[ACRucrazy]

From your description of grinding into 1st, it sounds like you have an issue with the 1st gear blocker rings.
All 6060 Viper transmissions are fully synchronized including reverse. 1st and 2nd are triple cone and 3-6 are double cone. There was an issue with 2nd in the Gen IV Vipers and Challengers with heavy grinding when cold that was traced to the brass/bronze blocker rings not bedding in and slipping. The fix was to utilize the triple Carbon lined blocker rings and the others remained brass/bronze lined. The upgrade is to use the hybird carbon/bronze lined blocker rings for improved shifting both up and down in gears 1, 3-6.

The other issue of stalling in a Gen V has to do with the revised gear ratios starting in 2013. 1st gear went from a 2.66 to a 2.26 ratio. The other item that adds to that is the lighter flywheel which took away from the inertia helping to starting to move the car at light throttle. The Gen V set up is great for road track events at the cost of low speed driveability.
I have converted several Gen V transmissions back to the Gen IV 2.66 1st gear set to the delight of the owners.

John

I was waiting for you to chime in. Good stuff!

[CerBlue17]

Can I ask at what speed you are waiting to downshift into 1st?

Also, have you also tried rev matching by blipping the throttle before shifting into 1st?

Rex: Happens at any speed...never tried over 30mph. Yes, tried rev matching and double clutching.

[CerBlue17]

From your description of grinding into 1st, it sounds like you have an issue with the 1st gear blocker rings.
All 6060 Viper transmissions are fully synchronized including reverse. 1st and 2nd are triple cone and 3-6 are double cone. There was an issue with 2nd in the Gen IV Vipers and Challengers with heavy grinding when cold that was traced to the brass/bronze blocker rings not bedding in and slipping. The fix was to utilize the triple Carbon lined blocker rings and the others remained brass/bronze lined. The upgrade is to use the hybird carbon/bronze lined blocker rings for improved shifting both up and down in gears 1, 3-6.

The other issue of stalling in a Gen V has to do with the revised gear ratios starting in 2013. 1st gear went from a 2.66 to a 2.26 ratio. The other item that adds to that is the lighter flywheel which took away from the inertia helping to starting to move the car at light throttle. The Gen V set up is great for road track events at the cost of low speed driveability.
I have converted several Gen V transmissions back to the Gen IV 2.66 1st gear set to the delight of the owners.

John
Thanks John..so it's possible it's 1st gear blocker rings even though it shifts fine in other direction from 1st into 2nd?

[ssjcreeper]

The ACR I just purchased...

Wait, what?!?! Ryan you bought an ACR?!

[CerBlue17]

Transmission issue update.. dropped at local dodge dealer with viper tech and "30 years experience" lol...took him for a ride to clearly and methodically demonstrate how car does not down Shift from 2nd to 1st unless under 5mph or so. I leave car with tech and go into service office to get coffee and wait for son to pick me up... moments later I see my car with same rep leaving lot apparently so he can experience what I already showed him. I assume he thought I already left. Stopped him in parking lot when he returned. I calmly asked why he needed to test... genious viper rep with 30 yrs experience explains that he believes grinding situation is only happening from 19mph and lower but from 20 and above it's fine so I should down shift into 1st only above 20. I tell genious how ridiculous his diagnose is. I stay calm as I'm figuring Dodge will know this guy is a boob and will approve warranty claim based on fact that should not happen at any speed. After a couple calls today I get call from another service manager to explain that Dodge warranty made a determination that nothing is wrong with car and I should not down shift unless over 20 mph....this is when I finally lost my temper... to late to call dodge SRT.. but I don't believe the dealer actually spoke to warranty...would a dodge warranty rep really agree with this nonsense? Needless to say I'm getting my car out of there asap. WTF!

[99Vipers]

Transmission issue update.. dropped at local dodge dealer with viper tech and "30 years experience" lol...took him for a ride to clearly and methodically demonstrate how car does not down Shift from 2nd to 1st unless under 5mph or so. I leave car with tech and go into service office to get coffee and wait for son to pick me up... moments later I see my car with same rep leaving lot apparently so he can experience what I already showed him. I assume he thought I already left. Stopped him in parking lot when he returned. I calmly asked why he needed to test... genious viper rep with 30 yrs experience explains that he believes grinding situation is only happening from 19mph and lower but from 20 and above it's fine so I should down shift into 1st only above 20. I tell genious how ridiculous his diagnose is. I stay calm as I'm figuring Dodge will know this guy is a boob and will approve warranty claim based on fact that should not happen at any speed. After a couple calls today I get call from another service manager to explain that Dodge warranty made a determination that nothing is wrong with car and I should not down shift unless over 20 mph....this is when I finally lost my temper... to late to call dodge SRT.. but I don't believe the dealer actually spoke to warranty...would a dodge warranty rep really agree with this nonsense? Needless to say I'm getting my car out of there asap. WTF!



The story above is one of the biggest reason why I would like to sell my Viper but there is no way I can get close (within 15K) to what I have in it. The death of the Viper can be attributed to a number of circumstances but 3 major things stick out to me since the Gen V was released: 1)A marketing team that couldn't sell ice in Death Valley, 2) A multitude of major and minor QC issues that have plagued the Gen V throughout its production backed by a company that used its clients as guinea-pigs to root out major engine issues.3) A nationwide dealer network that was/is clueless to fix said problems on a 100k+ car
Its not even officially out of production and yet some parts are on back-order forever. Whats going to happen 5-10 years from now when someone bends their precious ACR and has to find a new landing strip/wing, 6 vent hood, and other parts? Extended warranty or not you are screwed, and please don't start with its a hand built racer,lol....
I really applaud the men and women who designed and built the Gen.V because in my opinion it IS the best Viper ever made but its support from the other factions of Dodge is terrible.
Rant Over:t0152:

[Topplayer]

Transmission issue update.. dropped at local dodge dealer with viper tech and "30 years experience" lol...took him for a ride to clearly and methodically demonstrate how car does not down Shift from 2nd to 1st unless under 5mph or so. I leave car with tech and go into service office to get coffee and wait for son to pick me up... moments later I see my car with same rep leaving lot apparently so he can experience what I already showed him. I assume he thought I already left. Stopped him in parking lot when he returned. I calmly asked why he needed to test... genious viper rep with 30 yrs experience explains that he believes grinding situation is only happening from 19mph and lower but from 20 and above it's fine so I should down shift into 1st only above 20. I tell genious how ridiculous his diagnose is. I stay calm as I'm figuring Dodge will know this guy is a boob and will approve warranty claim based on fact that should not happen at any speed. After a couple calls today I get call from another service manager to explain that Dodge warranty made a determination that nothing is wrong with car and I should not down shift unless over 20 mph....this is when I finally lost my temper... to late to call dodge SRT.. but I don't believe the dealer actually spoke to warranty...would a dodge warranty rep really agree with this nonsense? Needless to say I'm getting my car out of there asap. WTF!

Which dealer are you going to? Manhattan? Try CJ MEDOWLANDS DODGE its far but worth it trust me!

[donk_316]

Transmission issue update.. dropped at local dodge dealer with viper tech and "30 years experience" lol...took him for a ride to clearly and methodically demonstrate how car does not down Shift from 2nd to 1st unless under 5mph or so. I leave car with tech and go into service office to get coffee and wait for son to pick me up... moments later I see my car with same rep leaving lot apparently so he can experience what I already showed him. I assume he thought I already left. Stopped him in parking lot when he returned. I calmly asked why he needed to test... genious viper rep with 30 yrs experience explains that he believes grinding situation is only happening from 19mph and lower but from 20 and above it's fine so I should down shift into 1st only above 20. I tell genious how ridiculous his diagnose is. I stay calm as I'm figuring Dodge will know this guy is a boob and will approve warranty claim based on fact that should not happen at any speed. After a couple calls today I get call from another service manager to explain that Dodge warranty made a determination that nothing is wrong with car and I should not down shift unless over 20 mph....this is when I finally lost my temper... to late to call dodge SRT.. but I don't believe the dealer actually spoke to warranty...would a dodge warranty rep really agree with this nonsense? Needless to say I'm getting my car out of there asap. WTF!

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha!
Man, some of you guys love crying to the masses. Just get the issue delt with. I don't even see why you felt the need to type any of this out on a public message board.
Why do you people document issues FOR EVER with your cars on the INTERNET.
How many for sale threads have you seen where someone says "isn't that the car that was on Facebook / this forum that the owner said had XXX problem?".

Take your car to another dealer. Talk to service manager directly. Build a functional relationship and he will get things done for you that are above and beyond.

[Stealth78]

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha!
Man, some of you guys love crying to the masses. Just get the issue delt with. I don't even see why you felt the need to type any of this out on a public message board.
Why do you people document issues FOR EVER with your cars on the INTERNET.
How many for sale threads have you seen where someone says "isn't that the car that was on Facebook / this forum that the owner said had XXX problem?".

Take your car to another dealer. Talk to service manager directly. Build a functional relationship and he will get things done for you that are above and beyond.

If you're going to be a douche then double check your English grammar. You should have said "The best part is when you misspelled genius" OR "The best part is when you spelled genius wrong". I suppose you are the person who also says you need to unthaw something when it's already frozen!?!?

[donk_316]

Ah, valid point my fellow grammar Nazi. Thanks for the clarification!

Only peasants say "unthaw". Haha!

[7TH_SIGN]

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha!
Man, some of you guys love crying to the masses. Just get the issue delt with. I don't even see why you felt the need to type any of this out on a public message board.
Why do you people document issues FOR EVER with your cars on the INTERNET.
How many for sale threads have you seen where someone says "isn't that the car that was on Facebook / this forum that the owner said had XXX problem?".

Are you trying to hint to us that we should hide past and current issues with a car we are selling? If so that's really disappointing to hear on a public forum. The OP isn't "crying" to the masses. He is just sharing his experience with a certain dealership and Dodge. If anything it at the very least gives others in his area the heads up to avoid this dealership imo.


Take your car to another dealer. Talk to service manager directly. Build a functional relationship and he will get things done for you that are above and beyond.

Build a relationship? What are owners supposed to take their service manager out for dinner and dates? Maybe an all inclusive exotic beach getaway? How about Dodge dealerships do their job and stand behind a failed product? Some may not understand what the OP is going through with all the frustration but I for one do. Prefix was the only one to come through for me when Dodge was nowhere to be seen and I had to do most of the leg work. Much more than a consumer should on a warrantied vehicle.

[swexlin]

The story above is one of the biggest reason why I would like to sell my Viper but there is no way I can get close (within 15K) to what I have in it. The death of the Viper can be attributed to a number of circumstances but 3 major things stick out to me since the Gen V was released: 1)A marketing team that couldn't sell ice in Death Valley, 2) A multitude of major and minor QC issues that have plagued the Gen V throughout its production backed by a company that used its clients as guinea-pigs to root out major engine issues.3) A nationwide dealer network that was/is clueless to fix said problems on a 100k+ car
Its not even officially out of production and yet some parts are on back-order forever. Whats going to happen 5-10 years from now when someone bends their precious ACR and has to find a new landing strip/wing, 6 vent hood, and other parts? Extended warranty or not you are screwed, and please don't start with its a hand built racer,lol....
I really applaud the men and women who designed and built the Gen.V because in my opinion it IS the best Viper ever made but its support from the other factions of Dodge is terrible.
Rant Over:t0152:

Agree 1000%!

[AZTVR]

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha! .

Just get the issue delt with.

*dealt

[jaxtk]

I dont believe 1st has a synchro...

Wrong!

[CerBlue17]

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha!
Man, some of you guys love crying to the masses. Just get the issue delt with. I don't even see why you felt the need to type any of this out on a public message board.
Why do you people document issues FOR EVER with your cars on the INTERNET.
How many for sale threads have you seen where someone says "isn't that the car that was on Facebook / this forum that the owner said had XXX problem?".

Take your car to another dealer. Talk to service manager directly. Build a functional relationship and he will get things done for you that are above and beyond.

Donk..get some sleep buddy!! I was simply summarizing my experience with the dealer recommended by SRT.

Thank you for your suggestion to deal with the issue and move on....because here in New York we are very patient people and wouldn't want to rush things along :)

[One Viper Bite]

The best part is when you misspelled genius wrong. Haha!
Man, some of you guys love crying to the masses. Just get the issue delt with. I don't even see why you felt the need to type any of this out on a public message board.
Why do you people document issues FOR EVER with your cars on the INTERNET.
How many for sale threads have you seen where someone says "isn't that the car that was on Facebook / this forum that the owner said had XXX problem?".

Take your car to another dealer. Talk to service manager directly. Build a functional relationship and he will get things done for you that are above and beyond.

We're here to share information...the good and the bad. Because it is useful to other owners who may experience a similar issue or experience.

Now why don't you go back to arguing with people about TA Groups vs. TA Package cars? Because we all love to see you go on FOR EVER about that moot point on the INTERNET.

[ACRSNK]

Hope you can get your car squared away soon. Never fun to have such a nice car and have to deal with issues like this. Keep us posted on your progress and experiences.

[CerBlue17]

Although Dodge approved warranty, I pulled car from dealer and will be bringing elsewhere. Most likely to CJ at Carmel Dodge. Some of process will have to be repeated. Basically Dodge will determine to repair or replace after transmission is disassembled and inspected.

[CerBlue17]

Update... brought car to CJ at meadowland of Carmel. Dodge warranty sent a new transmission . Excellent service and loaner car. Install went perfect and had car back in couple weeks. Thanks CJ!

[texasram]

Is there any problem pushing through the resistance that the transmission provides when you try to downshift into a lower gear because youre anticipating that by the time you release the clutch youll be at an acceptable speed for the lower gear?

[sadil]

I just experienced this issue. The car is grinding going into first. When I coast to a stop, going into first grinds hard. Did anyone else aside from the OP experience this?

[Jack B]

I just experienced this issue. The car is grinding going into first. When I coast to a stop, going into first grinds hard. Did anyone else aside from the OP experience this?

Time to replace the clutch or the synchro"s

[sadil]

Time to replace the clutch or the synchro"s

Replacing the synchros makes sense but clutch?

I was ripping laps this weekend and had zero issues with the clutch. Getting into gear was getting difficult sometimes but I put that blame on me, for bad form. For the most part, it was flawless going from 150 in 4th down to 2nd. I was struggling to heal toe at 150 mph but again thats my own limitation. I was driving pretty well for the most part but trans is definitely taking a beating. I have an autoblip unit that I want to install to get some proper rev matching.

I was running at Grattan Raceway in Belding, MI

For a little comparison, I am running a 2017 TA with Arrow Tune, ST47 pads all around, and used scrub DH Pirelli slicks. Had the suspension set to track mode and TC to track as well. Wheels are 18x12 and 18x13 running 325 square (660 up front and 705 in the rear).

The ACRE with record-setting driver was running 1:22 flat. And it was part of the group of records FCA launched the ACR with.

I was able to turn a 1:24.99 by Sunday which I was very happy with. The TA is a very capable car, even in the hands of someone like me who is braking early because heal toe isnt working for me.

Sarosh

[DZnutz]

The clutch may not be releasing completely.

In any event I had a few laughs reading through this entire thread. If you're having trouble putting your trans into any gear or experiencing grinding then something is wrong.

[sadil]

The clutch may not be releasing completely.

In any event I had a few laughs reading through this entire thread. If you're having trouble putting your trans into any gear or experiencing grinding then something is wrong.

Yep, just confirmed again this morning. 1st gear is a no go, even at 10 mph. It grinds hard trying to get into 1st. I have another track day in 3 weeks and then nothing until end of August. I think I will warranty the trans at that point.

But yeah, I want to rule out clutch, because it shouldn't have anything to do with 1st gear downshift grind. Think my first synchro is gone but I thought 1-2 shift would also be effected and its isn't that bad. 2-3 is also not too pleasant when the car is loaded up awkwardly at the track. Straight-line everything is fine. I think I need to stiffen the driveline.

[CajunViper09]

I just had what I thought was trans/clutch problems. I just went ahead and put a new clutch and sent off my trans to Tick for their stage 2 trans job. The shop that pulled my trans and clutch said the clutch was fine, but the slave/throw out bearing was the issue. I had a hard time between shifts, like a 2-3 count between shifts, before it would go into the next gear, up or down shifting at almost anything over 3000rpms.

Tick saw that my 2nd and 3rd gear set was worn after taking the trans apart and inspecting. Talking with them about how my shifting was acting, they said the clutch not releasing because of the slave going bad was causing the premature wear of the 2 and 3 gear sets.

My clutch looked good and so it all boiled down to the clutch not releasing and what seemed to be the slave being the issue.

[sadil]

After going for another drive. I noticed the following.

1) No way to get 2nd into 1st while rolling. It grinds every time and sounds awful.
2) Starting to feel a grind power shifting to 2nd. Anything about 4500 rpm grinds.
3) All other functions are working no issue. No issues upshifting or downshifting in other gears. No odd noises. No rattles. No squeaks.
4) The clutch and how the pedal just sits always bothered me but i cant really knock it because it works. Getting into proper gear is sometimes difficult but i dont have as much finesse with the gear changes as I should when downshifting. Upshifting has never been an issue. Just gets better and better with practice.

[Jack B]

While in 1st gear with the clutch depressed raise the rpms and see if the car starts to creep. That will tell you if the clutch is fully releasing. Multiple disk clutches have many benefits, however, one negative is the disk/plate clearance, it does not take much change in the disk or plate (warp) to take up the clearance. Another possibility (slight) is a bad slave.

On the other hand, yours does sound more trans related, but usually the issue is 2nd/3rd gear, not 1st gear.

[sadil]

Im very surprised that out of all the things that could go wrong, im suffering a 1st gear synchro. Am I at least right to assume that the 1st gear downshift synchro issue would also cause a 1-2 shifting grind? I haven't seen an exploded view of the TR6060.

I dont even drag race. I do sometimes struggle to downshift and have had experience with messy downshifts where im mashing to try and get into gear but its very limited but I never shift into first.

Car does not creep. I think I would have noticed clutch issues much sooner if this was the case. I just meant that the pedal itself is kinda loose on the assembly which I dont like. I like things being tight with good feedback resistance.

[Nth Moto]

The OEM clutch design does not fully release until it is pretty much BURIED on the floor, and 99% of performance enthusiasts don't wait until the clutch is buried to shift, up or down. That puts more stress on the synchro assemblies, which is then magnified if you are not accurately rev match downshifting.

Do you downshift from second to first while moving often? That is incredibly hard on the transmission with any real vehicle speed being maintained. You should avoid that in pretty much any instance other than necessary on the track, which is probably extremely rare to need to get back into first with the torque band of these cars.

Short version: your trans is very likely ate up inside and the more you drive it the worse it will get, to a point that it will start to chew up the teeth on the gear rather than just the easily replaced synchro's themselves. It kind of sounds like that's already the case to be honest. If you maintain the driving style you've described you'll do the same to the next transmission, and it will happen quicker with the OEM clutch.

[Jack B]

If the actual pedal arm is loose that might add to the problem, it might reduce full travel on the slave. As was stated, down shifting into first puts a lot of stress on the synchro's. The good part is, the fix is easy. It will also give you a chance to upgrade the synchro's and forks.

[SRT_BluByU]

1st gear Has no Sycro’s so you should only be shifting to it at a stop or maybe..maybe.. heal toe rev matching. Also, no lift shifts (power shifting) is a no no in this car.. if i remember correctly its specifically stated in owners manual.. that might explain the 2nd gear syncro issue. For whatever its worth thats my opinion..

[DZnutz]

Why would anyone try to force this, or any other car, into first gear while moving? First gear is intended to get a car rolling from a stop, while in motion never try to drop it into first.

[Gen5snake]

All forward gears have syncros. 1st gear is good till 60 mph, of course you can put it in 1st gear from a roll. Never heard of such a thing that you can't....I always do without grind...with every manual trans I've ever owned. Some trans don't have syncro's in reverse.

[SRT_BluByU]

youre right I misspoke.. Looks like that was mainly in older transmissions and not the TR-6060 :z:

maybe this explains some of the issues this contemporary transmission is experiencing : https://www.carthrottle.com/post/this-is-why-its-difficult-to-downshift-into-first-gear/

[Jack B]

All forward gears have syncros. 1st gear is good till 60 mph, of course you can put it in 1st gear from a roll. Never heard of such a thing that you can't....I always do without grind...with every manual trans I've ever owned. Some trans don't have syncro's in reverse.

The 6060 does have reverse synchro's.

[sadil]

Interesting thoughts and videos. I appreciate everyone chiming in.

Honestly, I dont use first gear for any performance driving, but I do use it all the time when going 10-15 mph. I always blip to match the rev difference but it does get used often for city driving. It is very useful when turning into a neighborhood or plaza parking lot, drivethrus, etc. Track driving never. Even the most narrowest of tracks, I have never used first.

So facts are,

All gears have synchros - J Donato
2nd is the only one with carbon friction pads compared to the rest which are bronze - J Donato
Oil in trans needs to be EP rated, another ATF will not be sufficient - I run Amsoil, it may be part of the problem. - J Donato
Cooler needs to be added for long runs but even a short stint at a track with heat soak is too much. G5’s have very limited cooling. - J Donato & Tremec
Fluid changes should be often when tracking - Tremec
Tremec fluid is hella thick, almost double the BG fluid that J Donato recommends, but it’s clear thicker fluids (light gear oils) work better and super thin ATF was used just to make sure shifter is smooth for normal operation

Might be fake news:
All TR6060s have pump inside. All you have to do is hook a trans cooler up to the existing provisions.