Viper TA versus Vette Z06 aero package

[johniew398]

I just received the new Car and Driver magazine which has the new Z06 on the cover.
I hadn't seen a real clear photo of the rear aero treatment until the magazine.

I know a lot of people are enamored by the looks of the Z06 but that aero foil on the Z06 looks like a tacky 3rd party add-on with exposed screws.
I know you can manually raise it an inch by loosening the screws but it looks like something you buy down at your local auto parts store.

2847

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[FLATOUT]

Neither setup creates that much downforce so honestly they both could be considered "tacked on". The TA generates like 200lbs at triple digit speeds correct?

Asthetically the TA's flows much better.

[VENOM V]

Actually, I think they do help quite a bit. The TA's increases the downforce 7x. As one that's felt the ass end get loose on turn 1 at Laguna Seca and turn 7 on Thunderhill (and a trip though the weeds at 120mph), it really would benefit from downforce. The TA's package including the front splitters generates 300 pounds at 150. That's not bad. The Z06 sounds as if it generates even more. However, SRT has shown a new wing that will generate even more, probably similar to what I have on my Camaro...

For comparison, the wing alone on my Camaro can be adjusted from 170 to 470 pounds downforce at 150 mph, depending on the angle of attack that you set it to.

My take is that the TA is a very elegant design, well integrated with the aggressive flowing lines of the Viper. There is nothing elegant about the Z06 in my view, but if I had a C7 I'd still take that adjustable rear spoiler for it's track performance. Of course, my choice is Viper. But both are bad ass machines.

[ViperSmith]

The problem I have with the design of the C7 in general is that it looks like it was designed by committee. There were 15 people designing different pieces, it was put together at the end and smoothed out a bit.

Where the Viper was virtually the vision of Ralph and Mark - it is more cohesive.

Not saying that the C7 aero won't work, but the Vipers just looks better all around.

[FLATOUT]

I guess somethings better than nothing. Gen IV ACR's create 1100 lbs at 150 so I guess I am looking for something in that ballpark.


Actually, I think they do help quite a bit. The TA's increases the downforce 7x. As one that's felt the ass end get loose on turn 1 at Laguna Seca and turn 7 on Thunderhill (and a trip though the weeds at 120mph), it really would benefit from downforce. The TA's package including the front splitters generates 300 pounds at 150. That's not bad. The Z06 sounds as if it generates even more. However, SRT has shown a new wing that will generate even more, probably similar to what I have on my Camaro...

For comparison, the wing alone on my Camaro can be adjusted from 170 to 470 pounds downforce at 150 mph, depending on the angle of attack that you set it to.

My take is that the TA is a very elegant design, well integrated with the aggressive flowing lines of the Viper. There is nothing elegant about the Z06 in my view, but if I had a C7 I'd still take that adjustable rear spoiler for it's track performance. Of course, my choice is Viper. But both are bad ass machines.

[J TNT]

As I mentioned earlier , I Like the Viper because , " It Only Comes In Mens !" ........lol ! :drive:

[VRYALT3R3D]

Neither setup creates that much downforce so honestly they both could be considered "tacked on". The TA generates like 200lbs at triple digit speeds correct?

Asthetically the TA's flows much better.
SRT says 278 pounds at 150 mph

[FLATOUT]

SRT says 278 pounds at 150 mph

Ok so it's minimal. Factually it creates some, but not much. How many sweepers are we taking at 150mph? What does it create at 100mph?

[VENOM V]

I guess somethings better than nothing. Gen IV ACR's create 1100 lbs at 150 so I guess I am looking for something in that ballpark.

Man, that must be something else on the track! I think I recall Ralph said the Gen V ACR will generate something like 1500 pounds at 150 :dude3:

The guys I track with, probably 80% of them have huge aero in the advanced group. It will be fun to see if I can compete with them with my small carbon aero package, which is on order from Woodhouse. It's not the size, it's how you use it, LOL

[VRYALT3R3D]

Ok so it's minimal. Factually it creates some, but not much. How many sweepers are we taking at 150mph? What does it create at 100mph?

Actually I was wrong.....

"or example, those little splitters and the spoiler help produce a claimed 460 pounds of downforce at 150 mph. Compared with the base car’s 75 pounds at 150 mph, the additional downward push is not only significant but also advantageous on a racetrack."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-srt-viper-ta-first-drive-review

[VENOM V]

Ok so it's minimal. Factually it creates some, but not much. How many sweepers are we taking at 150mph? What does it create at 100mph?

I wish I knew the breakdown on the Viper's carbon aero package, but here's the Camaro's with the wing set at the 10 degrees. I would imagine that the Viper aero scales similarly:

131 lb at 80 mph
301 lb at 120 mph
470 lb at 150 mph

These numbers are all relevant to me, as Laguna Seca turn 1 can be as fast as 140 MPH. Thunderhill's turn 7 is around 120 mph I believe. Willow Springs has some fast sweepers, I haven't been yet but definitely well over 100 mph. Buttonwillow has a corner that I take in the Viper in the high 90s. These are the corners that are the scary ones. It's easier to save the car at under 100mph, at least for me.

[FLATOUT]

Trust me it all helps :) I would rather have 300-500 than 75lbs. That being said I wonder why SRT's numbers for downforce is smaller than what Car and Driver quoted. Wonder which number is correct?

[TrackAire]

Here is another thought on the big wing topic....maybe some experienced racers can chime in.

If you're running a large wing like what is on the back of the ACR and it is generating a substantial amount of down force (and more friction/traction for the rear tires) at speed, if the car gets sideways this dramatically decreases down force off the rear wing. You then lose this increased tire friction (traction) in a more abrupt fashion meaning it takes more skill to save the car. Am I on the right track here with my thinking?

I'm wondering if wingless cars are a better way to go for beginners until driver skills match the dynamics of a winged car???


George

[Shooter]

Here is the DF chart for the Gen IV ACR. Thought I'd throw it up so people would stop guessing at the #'s generated. :)


http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/341317171685068374.jpg

[Chorps]

Here is the DF chart for the Gen IV ACR. Thought I'd throw it up so people would stop guessing at the #'s generated. :)


http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/341317171685068374.jpg

Image isn't showing up. I'm assuming you're referencing this pic?

http://d2n4wb9orp1vta.cloudfront.net/resources/images/cdn/cms/0509hpc_FOD_3.jpg

[Shooter]

Image isn't showing up. I'm assuming you're referencing this pic?

http://d2n4wb9orp1vta.cloudfront.net/resources/images/cdn/cms/0509hpc_FOD_3.jpg

Ya. It was up earlier. Wonder what happened.

[johniew398]

Actually, I think they do help quite a bit. The TA's increases the downforce 7x. As one that's felt the ass end get loose on turn 1 at Laguna Seca and turn 7 on Thunderhill (and a trip though the weeds at 120mph), it really would benefit from downforce. The TA's package including the front splitters generates 300 pounds at 150. That's not bad. The Z06 sounds as if it generates even more. However, SRT has shown a new wing that will generate even more, probably similar to what I have on my Camaro...

For comparison, the wing alone on my Camaro can be adjusted from 170 to 470 pounds downforce at 150 mph, depending on the angle of attack that you set it to.

My take is that the TA is a very elegant design, well integrated with the aggressive flowing lines of the Viper. There is nothing elegant about the Z06 in my view, but if I had a C7 I'd still take that adjustable rear spoiler for it's track performance. Of course, my choice is Viper. But both are bad ass machines.

I'm not a Camaro guy but that is one bad ass machine!

[V10LEE]

Here is the DF chart for the Gen IV ACR. Thought I'd throw it up so people would stop guessing at the #'s generated. :)


http://www.imgbond.com/pictures/269/341317171685068374.jpg

Love my IV ACR..:dude3:

[Newport Viper]

Looks like the G4 Viper Coupe ARY generates 100-200 more pounds of downforce then the new Viper GT. Pretty paint on the new car however http://www.digitaltrends.com/car-videos/2015-srt-viper-gt/

[Nine Ball]

LOL at "Typical Sports Car" on that graphic. In Corvette team yellow, perhaps?

I notice a difference in drag on my '13 after putting the TA aero on the car, starting at around 90 mph. The car used to coast at 100 mph easier, now it slows down a little quicker when I let off the gas. The entire hatch also has a slight humming sound resonating, once I cross 100 mph. That rear spoiler is doing something for sure.

[kdaviper]

Just for clarification, The C7 Z06 doesn't come with the aero package unless you order the top-of-the-line Z07 package.

[Troublemaker]

The new Z06 is very in your face and edgey looking, the Gen5s aero is almost elegant for lack of a better word. It blends with the car better, like it was meant to be an option, not an afterthought. The fact that its that functional is just icing on the cake. I look foreword to seeing how they do the ACR. You can tell the exterior design was very thought out, I hope they keep to that theme.

[VENOM V]

I'm not a Camaro guy but that is one bad ass machine!

I call it a poor man's TA, lol. It's my low budget track machine that's not as fast as a Viper but has surprised its share of exotics. My friend in his GT3 got tired of getting beat by a muscle car so he just sold it and got a GT3 RS. He doesn't know about my big wing to match his yet. Buttonwillow will be fun when we meet again, haha!

[Shooter]

I call it a poor man's TA, lol. It's my low budget track machine that's not as fast as a Viper but has surprised its share of exotics. My friend in his GT3 got tired of getting beat by a muscle car so he just sold it and got a GT3 RS. He doesn't know about my big wing to match his yet. Buttonwillow will be fun when we meet again, haha!



This just a question and is not a knock against you. Just my own curiosity. Why didn't you just buy a used Gen 2 for playing at the track.? Then you would really have a "poor mans TA" as you put it. A well set up Gen 2 would be cheaper and much faster then a modded Camaro. Plus, then you would gain the skills required to drive your Gen V better.

Thanks

[Voice of Reason]

LOL at "Typical Sports Car" on that graphic. In Corvette team yellow, perhaps?

I notice a difference in drag on my '13 after putting the TA aero on the car, starting at around 90 mph. The car used to coast at 100 mph easier, now it slows down a little quicker when I let off the gas. The entire hatch also has a slight humming sound resonating, once I cross 100 mph. That rear spoiler is doing something for sure.

Can someone with the factory Aero package comment on noise above 100? Venom V you might be in the best position to do this once yours is installed since you have a lot of track time in yours without the aero. IMO if the aftermarket Aero is causing the trunk to hum then the design needs to be tweaked a bit.

[VENOM V]

Can someone with the factory Aero package comment on noise above 100? Venom V you might be in the best position to do this once yours is installed since you have a lot of track time in yours without the aero. IMO if the aftermarket Aero is causing the trunk to hum then the design needs to be tweaked a bit.

I'll report back once it's installed. I will be tracking it with the OEM aero at the beginning of March at Willow Springs, known as the fastest track in the West. Cannot wait!

[Herrsss]

As I mentioned earlier , I Like the Viper because , " It Only Comes In Mens !" ........lol ! :drive:

Hey now . . . I have 2 . . .:dude3:

[VENOM V]

Hey now . . . I have 2 . . .:dude3:

Damn, one with ACR aero and the other a racer. There's something very cool about a woman in a hot car

[V10LEE]

I put a Katech rear carbon fiber winglet, and a front carbon fiber splitter on my 2010 Z06. I did not notice any additional noises from the aero on the front straight at Laguna going 124+ mph,and driving on the street, freeway.. The rear wing piece from Katech is also taller than the factory piece that's on the Gen V..

I think that the down force produced on my Z06 with the aero I added. Will be close to the new Z06s..
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/rapid25_2012/2013-01-18_11-01-19_250_zpsf982a845.jpg (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/rapid25_2012/media/2013-01-18_11-01-19_250_zpsf982a845.jpg.html)
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/rapid25_2012/2013-01-18_11-01-37_260_zps3e0cbedf.jpg (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/rapid25_2012/media/2013-01-18_11-01-37_260_zps3e0cbedf.jpg.html)

Front splitter
http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/rapid25_2012/splitter.jpg (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/rapid25_2012/media/splitter.jpg.html)

http://i753.photobucket.com/albums/xx171/rapid25_2012/_4DW5314_zpsf5b1aa88.jpg (http://s753.photobucket.com/user/rapid25_2012/media/_4DW5314_zpsf5b1aa88.jpg.html)

[Redsled]

My "poor mans TA" :D It plays very well with ACRXs, Comp Coupes and GT3 Cup cars.http://driveviper.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2965&d=1391368270



Why didn't you just buy a used Gen 2 for playing at the track.? Then you would really have a "poor mans TA" as you put it. A well set up Gen 2 would be cheaper and much faster then a modded Camaro.

Thanks

[Redsled]

I'll report back once it's installed. I will be tracking it with the OEM aero at the beginning of March at Willow Springs, known as the fastest track in the West. Cannot wait!
Todd, you need to be extra careful at WSIR next month. If one goes off there, the car will pay the price. There is little flat runoff there, lots of drainage ditches and rocks everywhere in the infield. I'll most likely be there on Saturday. Here's a video from a local guy that has mastered the track. He is a fantastic driver and WSIR is his home track. His lines are very good around there, keep in mind his braking and handling is much better than our Vipers as his car is probably 700+ lbs lighter, but also about 400+ Hp less as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxgovNV2a3M

[Shooter]

My "poor mans TA" :D It plays very well with ACRXs, Comp Coupes and GT3 Cup cars.http://driveviper.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2965&d=1391368270

Exactly Redsled. Your car is great. I was wondering why someone would choose too bring a knife to a gun fight when they could buy the gun for the same or less. :)

[VENOM V]

Todd, you need to be extra careful at WSIR next month. If one goes off there, the car will pay the price. There is little flat runoff there, lots of drainage ditches and rocks everywhere in the infield. I'll most likely be there on Saturday. Here's a video from a local guy that has mastered the track. He is a fantastic driver and WSIR is his home track. His lines are very good around there, keep in mind his braking and handling is much better than our Vipers as his car is probably 700+ lbs lighter, but also about 400+ Hp less as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxgovNV2a3M

Hey Jonathan, I'll be there both days. I'll be running the Camaro there first Feb 15-16 to learn the track on Hoosier A6's before risking the Viper.

Any advice on which tires to run? I'm not going to run the MPSCS until it warms up. So I could either put my used Corsas back on or use Continental slicks, provided I can borrow my friend's trailer.

Thanks again for the advice, looking forward to seeing you out there.

[Redsled]

I would run fresh slicks if you could find the trailer, otherwise run the Corsas.



Hey Jonathan, I'll be there both days. I'll be running the Camaro there first Feb 15-16 to learn the track on Hoosier A6's before risking the Viper.

Any advice on which tires to run? I'm not going to run the MPSCS until it warms up. So I could either put my used Corsas back on or use Continental slicks, provided I can borrow my friend's trailer.

Thanks again for the advice, looking forward to seeing you out there.

[Bill Pemberton]

Redsled,

Thanks for the video, seen alot of Willow Springs and that is one of the best --- as you mentioned, the guys lines are great and he doesn't hesitate to get on the power like many around there,
but he has the car placed correctly to do it. It's nice to share!!!

[VENOM V]

I would run fresh slicks if you could find the trailer, otherwise run the Corsas.

Oh ya, a Gen V on fresh slicks, and a freshly installed carbon aero package. Fun fun fun! I'll try not to have any more off track excursions like the one I took us on at Buttonwillow, haha. The stakes are higher this time.