What happens in Canada

[BlueAdder]

... Doesn't have to stay in Canada :)

I'm in Mississauga for the week and Bruce kindly invited me to ride with him at Mosport. He had a track day yesterday and I drove from Mississauga to the track, getting annoyed by the traffic on the way.

The track is pretty short but I really liked it. It has elevation, blind corners, decent run off space too.

Bruce was pretty much smoking everything that moved and he's very consistent and smooth.

I could only stay until about 2pm because I had to get back to Mississauga before 3:30pm, so that kinda sucked but the 4 hours I spent there were really enjoyable.

My takeaways from my short time there:

2 groups, 30 minutes sessions = tons of track time
Awesome track
Canadian drivers are so polite
Bruce is a very nice dude


I'm glad I went there and met the man. Definitely the best day of my week.

[Bruce H.]

Thanks Manu, and it was great meeting you too! So glad you had a chance to experience this iconic track! Perfect weather and just enough traffic to keep things exciting.

Tough to pick a favorite track, and I think the best way is to do as many as possible before trying to decide! We're looking forward to our west coast road trip with the TA in the fall and doing some tracks with you, Todd and hopefully a few of the other west coast track rats!

Enjoy the rest of your time up here! I'll post some in-car video asap.

Bruce

[Bruce H.]

Oops...problem posting video

[Bruce H.]

test

[Bruce H.]

Okay, here we go, a few minutes of the action. Ends with Mardig in his ACR-E keeping my ego in check before starting a cool down lap :owned:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy4axKDzo1c

Ignore GPS speeds which are usually off a fair bit, and sorry the camera guy in the back was shaking so badly!

[TA Two Oh]

Great video, Bruce! Smooth, fast driving as usual and on a storied, amazing track. You get to grab 5th... so jealous... since our track closed in 2011 we've had to travel to a track almost 200 miles away. And we only need one third of our gears on that track: 2nd and 3rd. Hope to see you at UMC in the fall.

[Bruce H.]

Thanks Doug!

Let's talk brakes for those who might still be stock. This was the first time I've run the car with race pads and what a huge difference. I have the popular combo of Raybestos ST45 front and ST43 rear. I tried Carbotechs on the Supra years ago and wasn't impressed but these are a night and day improvement.

Mosport is hard on brakes, with the fastest corner T4 being a downhill where you then brake into a brutally high load uphill T5a, followed immediately by T5b which takes you onto the looong back straight and T8 at the end of it. Your brakes are cooked from T5a and braking for T8 was always a white knuckle affair. The pedal was soft and long from boiling when going into T8 with stock brake fluid, and not much better with Motul 5.1, but the Castrol SRF React is completely unaffected. But that firm pedal allowed harder braking that then revealed the limitations of the stock TA pads. Firm pedal, but the pads just weren't gripping due to overheating them and the resulting off-gassing that reduced bite. The new Raybestos pads obviously have a high enough temperature rating and the bite is fantastic. I finally have brakes I can truly count on...and that makes a huge difference.

In the video you'll see there's a crest on the uphill back straight just before the right sweeping T8, and not much room for braking between the crest and turn-in. To avoid upsetting the car and brake safely I always touched the brakes and then dropped into 4th gear just before the crest and then finished braking after the crest to turn-in, maxing out the brakes every time. Now I still drop to 4th before the crest but do all braking after the crest with complete confidence. I suspect that I might find that I can get both done after the crest with nerves of steel and lightning quick foot and hand work :cool:

After tracking it the brakes started to squeal a bit, and by the time I made it home they were loud enough my wife heard me coming from quite a distance. I'll see how they are today but it's looking like pretty much a certainty I'll be on stock pads for the west coast road/track trip with her if they squeal at all!

Bruce

[LmeaViper]

Cool video. You running the Corsa's?

[Bruce H.]

Yes I am, 4th season. Car is bone stock except for brake fluid and pads.

I'm very happy with the Corsa tire. I get about 5-6 days on the fronts running like this, more on the rears, typically 7 25-30 min sessions/day. Proper inflation, warm up, rotating, and not sliding the fronts too much is the key I think. Grip is so progressive and controllable at and beyond the limit that you're tempted to drive through the understeer into corners, but I prefer to give money to charity rather than leave it spread all around the corners! I run 34f and 32r. Tight tracks with lots of corners and abrasive pavement wear them out MUCH quicker. My record is wearing out front and rear in one day, but I don't plan on ever doing that again! Hard braking really puts a lot of heat into the front tires so I might find they start wearing a bit quicker with the race pads now.

[IndyRon]

Bruce, if you ever get the desire to try another tire, I'd love to hear your input on the new Toyo R888R's compared to the corsas. Nice run!

[Bruce H.]

The Toyo is definitely on my radar unless others find fault with them. But first I've got another set of Corsas waiting to mount when the current ones are done.

As much as I like the durability of the Corsa, what I like most is how communicative the feedback they provide is as they approach and surpass the limits of adhesion, how progressively they lose grip, and how easily it comes back with a little weight transfer from slight throttle lift....both in the dry and wet! Really confidence inspiring. If the Toyo doesn't excel in the wet it won't work for me as I run events rain or shine and often run into rain on our road/track trips.

[10PISTNZ]

... Doesn't have to stay in Canada :)

I'm in Mississauga for the week and Bruce kindly invited me to ride with him at Mosport. He had a track day yesterday and I drove from Mississauga to the track, getting annoyed by the traffic on the way.

The track is pretty short but I really liked it. It has elevation, blind corners, decent run off space too.

Bruce was pretty much smoking everything that moved and he's very consistent and smooth.

I could only stay until about 2pm because I had to get back to Mississauga before 3:30pm, so that kinda sucked but the 4 hours I spent there were really enjoyable.

My takeaways from my short time there:

2 groups, 30 minutes sessions = tons of track time
Awesome track
Canadian drivers are so polite
Bruce is a very nice dude


I'm glad I went there and met the man. Definitely the best day of my week.

"Pretty short"? It's 1167 feet longer than Laguna Seca Mazda Raceway. Shorter than Sonoma Raceway by a mere 322' I'm sure it was Bruce's speed and smoothness that made it seem short.

[LmeaViper]

Yes I am, 4th season. Car is bone stock except for brake fluid and pads.

I'm very happy with the Corsa tire. I get about 5-6 days on the fronts running like this, more on the rears, typically 7 25-30 min sessions/day. Proper inflation, warm up, rotating, and not sliding the fronts too much is the key I think. Grip is so progressive and controllable at and beyond the limit that you're tempted to drive through the understeer into corners, but I prefer to give money to charity rather than leave it spread all around the corners! I run 34f and 32r. Tight tracks with lots of corners and abrasive pavement wear them out MUCH quicker. My record is wearing out front and rear in one day, but I don't plan on ever doing that again! Hard braking really puts a lot of heat into the front tires so I might find they start wearing a bit quicker with the race pads now.

Two questions:
1. Can you explain your logic in the tire pressures...I run 34f and 32r.
2. Would like to hear your inputs on a warmup? You look at the TPMS for the pressure to come up Or otherwise? i.e one / two laps etc?
thks

[TheLoRyder]

Okay, here we go, a few minutes of the action. Ends with Mardig in his ACR-E keeping my ego in check before starting a cool down lap :owned:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy4axKDzo1c

Ignore GPS speeds which are usually off a fair bit, and sorry the camera guy in the back was shaking so badly!

Great video! Just wondering how you managed to mount a camera to get that position and angle. I tried mounting my Sony ActionCAM with an arm to the back windshield but couldn't get it just right for my road trip.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[dmann]

Very smooth! i like your approach to not over cook the front tires.

About the tire pressure. Stock is at 29. With running 34F and 32R are you seeing less PSI increase or better performance or better wear?

[Bruce H.]

Thanks for all the compliments!


Two questions:
1. Can you explain your logic in the tire pressures...I run 34f and 32r.
2. Would like to hear your inputs on a warmup? You look at the TPMS for the pressure to come up Or otherwise? i.e one / two laps etc?
thks

34f and 32R are the hot goal pressures that I keep adjusting to as the day goes on, as measured with a tire pressure gage. I've found 34 front with stock TA's -2.5* front camber yields pretty even tire temps across the tread of the tire, which helps produce fairly even wear. The tire's grip and turn-in both feel dialed in at 34, and as little as I like to run in an effort to not wear out the outside edges. The rear feels noticably more buttoned down in corners at 32 than 34, and the slight extra flex in the sidewall aids grip under power on corner exit where the rears seem to struggle for grip. To further assist grip there I also track with the dampers in Street Mode as I just find Race Mode damper control too harsh, and less effective at maximizing the tire's contact patch on less than optimal pavement surfaces, and under more abrupt lateral weight transfers such as through tight esses. Street Mode just provides more compliance in the suspension to maximize grip, at least on anything less than really smooth surfaces.

The TPMS is far too slow to react to changes in pressure and also isn't particularly accurate. I arrive and start the day with stock 29 psi cold pressure, come in after a few laps with typically 35-36 psi and bleed down to the hot goal, go back out and repeat bleeding down to goal pressure at the end of the session. Subsequent sessions typically require bleeding down to the hot goal pressure as ambient and track temps increase throughout the day and drive pressures higher.

I slowly warm up the tires (and my brain) over maybe 3 laps, and they feel the most confidence inspiring with even more than that. I don't like to "shock" the tire with too fast or uneven a temp change, and my data-logger shows my fastest times are pretty consistently between lap 8 and 12. If I went all out right out of the gate, or didn't manage front temps by limiting sliding in the corners, my fastest times might be laps 3 to 5 before becoming slower as they overheated and became greasy. The car can actually be stupid fast without killing the tires.



Great video! Just wondering how you managed to mount a camera to get that position and angle. I tried mounting my Sony ActionCAM with an arm to the back windshield but couldn't get it just right for my road trip.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

The back window didn't seem ideal when I looked at it so I mounted a small bracket on the top of the horizontal bulkhead just behind and between the seats. My dashcam is very light so double sided tape holds the bracket in place and also hold the camera mount itself to the bracket. Here's a picture of the "L" bracket with camera mount attached, but not the camera itself. I also have a camera mounted to the windshield beside the rear view mirror but prefer the cabin view.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f262/GT2860RS/Viper%20TA/20160516_192124_zpsiwizafr2.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/GT2860RS/media/Viper%20TA/20160516_192124_zpsiwizafr2.jpg.html)


Very smooth! i like your approach to not over cook the front tires.

About the tire pressure. Stock is at 29. With running 34F and 32R are you seeing less PSI increase or better performance or better wear?

I run 29 cold pressure on the street which seems perfect (which naturally goes up as you drive), but I find 34f/32r measured hot seems ideal for both wear and grip under track conditions. Hope that answered what you were asking.

[dmann]

I run 29 cold pressure on the street which seems perfect (which naturally goes up as you drive), but I find 34f/32r measured hot seems ideal for both wear and grip under track conditions. Hope that answered what you were asking.

Answered perfectly, thanks.
David

[BlueAdder]

"Pretty short"? It's 1167 feet longer than Laguna Seca Mazda Raceway. Shorter than Sonoma Raceway by a mere 322' I'm sure it was Bruce's speed and smoothness that made it seem short.

You may be right.
I guess it's faster than Laguna Seca because low 1:30s at Laguna Seca are seriously fast laps.

[LmeaViper]

[QUOTE=Bruce H.;304285]Thanks for all the compliments!



34f and 32R are the hot goal pressures that I keep adjusting to as the day goes on, as measured with a tire pressure gage. I've found 34 front with stock TA's -2.5* front camber yields pretty even tire temps across the tread of the tire, which helps produce fairly even wear. The tire's grip and turn-in both feel dialed in at 34, and as little as I like to run in an effort to not wear out the outside edges. The rear feels noticably more buttoned down in corners at 32 than 34, and the slight extra flex in the sidewall aids grip under power on corner exit where the rears seem to struggle for grip. To further assist grip there I also track with the dampers in Street Mode as I just find Race Mode damper control too harsh, and less effective at maximizing the tire's contact patch on less than optimal pavement surfaces, and under more abrupt lateral weight transfers such as through tight esses. Street Mode just provides more compliance in the suspension to maximize grip, at least on anything less than really smooth surfaces.

The TPMS is far too slow to react to changes in pressure and also isn't particularly accurate. I arrive and start the day with stock 29 psi cold pressure, come in after a few laps with typically 35-36 psi and bleed down to the hot goal, go back out and repeat bleeding down to goal pressure at the end of the session. Subsequent sessions typically require bleeding down to the hot goal pressure as ambient and track temps increase throughout the day and drive pressures higher.

I slowly warm up the tires (and my brain) over maybe 3 laps, and they feel the most confidence inspiring with even more than that. I don't like to "shock" the tire with too fast or uneven a temp change, and my data-logger shows my fastest times are pretty consistently between lap 8 and 12. If I went all out right out of the gate, or didn't manage front temps by limiting sliding in the corners, my fastest times might be laps 3 to 5 before becoming slower as they overheated and became greasy. The car can actually be stupid fast without killing the tires.



Thanks