VIDEO 200 wheel horsepower naturally aspirated gains

[Nth Moto]

Monster naturally aspirated Nth Moto Gen V Dodge Viper build on ethanol (utilizing our MoTeC M1 firmware with flex fuel capability).

This build ended up with more than a 200 wheel horsepower increase over stock!! No supplemental injection, nitrous, or forced induction of any kind.

The car is an absolute rocket, owned by one heck of a great guy! We'll be back on here with more build details soon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zZtmwXVnBI

[Wagnut ACR]

:fpopcorn: Awesome.

[ACRSNK]

Very cool !

[Hemibob]

Like

[Viper.954]

I like the blue flames.

[Ripper]

Ethanol as in E85 ?

[Topplayer]

:fpopcorn: :fpopcorn: :fpopcorn: :fpopcorn:

[Mazak]

Highly interested in the details.:fpopcorn:

[Jprince]

It's E85.

[slowhatch]

lawd jesus
http://24.media.tumblr.com/a1f3308aebdd7f737ab6892c1d823b12/tumblr_mjjp7yBSQL1rz2luoo1_250.gif

[poptarts]

Who did the tuning

[Jet Slicker]

Awesome! I'm a huge fan of ethanol and ran it on my WRX to make power. Safer for the engine and way more power. Not to mention it smells good too. Glad to see Vipers getting into ethanol. Even if it's only for NA right now it still helps!
I assume this was a heads and cam car? Details for any other mods on it?

[outnumbered]

Is E85 available everywhere? I've never really paid attention.

[Murpowa]

Is E85 available everywhere? I've never really paid attention.

No, some regions are more fortunate than others

[1.8t]

What were the actual numbers and can you post a graph?

[JG_1212]

I would love to see a dyno graph and hear a little more info with regards to any supporting mods.

[Jprince]

More details coming soon.

[Topplayer]

Nth knows how to build suspense. Everyone on fathers day telling there family how they want 200+ whp na LOL

[Nth Moto]

Thanks for all the great comments everyone! Hope we can answer most of the questions in one swoop...

We'll try to answer most of the questions above in one shot. This is on E85... we filled up again at our local station on Saturday and ethanol content was reporting 81% (E81). The car is running our Nth Moto MoTeC M1 firmware with flex fuel capability, so it can run anything from standard pump gas to full ethanol automatically. This has our built engine, heads, and R grind fixed cam. It also is running our Nth Moto fabricated race headers and high flow exhaust. It is rowdy, snotty, and not for everyone. That being said, it's downright awesome :)

Regarding the horsepower numbers... The average of all stock Gen V Vipers baselined on this dyno lands around 520 WHP SAE (515 - 525 WHP SAE).

On this dyno run, it made 742 HP SAE (754 HP STD).

[J TNT]

Thanks for all the great comments everyone! Hope we can answer most of the questions in one swoop...

We'll try to answer most of the questions above in one shot. This is on E85... we filled up again at our local station on Saturday and ethanol content was reporting 81% (E81). The car is running our Nth Moto MoTeC M1 firmware with flex fuel capability, so it can run anything from standard pump gas to full ethanol automatically. This has our built engine, heads, and R grind fixed cam. It also is running our Nth Moto fabricated race headers and high flow exhaust. It is rowdy, snotty, and not for everyone. That being said, it's downright awesome :)

Regarding the horsepower numbers... The average of all stock Gen V Vipers baselined on this dyno lands around 520 WHP SAE (515 - 525 WHP SAE).

On this dyno run, it made 742 HP SAE (754 HP STD).

What are the Torque numbers on E85 ?
Thanks

[FLATOUT]

Nice!

Congrats Nth and Jeff P! We had the pleasure of working with Jeff in our shop as well, and he's one of the best customers around to work with.

Andy

[Jprince]

Thank you Aaron for the nice comments and building the baddest NA car around. I can't wait to get it back and have some fun and see what she can do.
Aaron and the guys at Nth Moto are top notch. The attention to detail is amazing.

Thank you Andy. It was a pleasure working with you as well. I'm sure this won't be the end of mods. My next mod down the road will be the tractive suspension.

[dev]

What's the price installed?

[socal]

Imagine this with a 9L stroker...

[Jet Slicker]

Any idea of the gains on just a full exhaust car? With stock heads, cam, etc..

[poptarts]

looks like i need to start saving for my next mod....\

[yumaverick]

Nice work Nth Moto! I'm always impressed with your work. Hands down one of the best shops in the world!

[slowhatch]

Aaron is this stock displacement?

[Jprince]

Aaron is this stock displacement?

It is stock displacement

[mblgjr]

So what % power reduction would we see for 93 lol

[Nth Moto]

Thanks again for all the positive feedback, guys!

Below is the 742 WHP dyno sheet from the run in the video we posted versus a stock Gen V Viper baseline (the baseline was highest reported run of 3 pulls). As said before, the average of all stock Gen V Vipers baselined on this dyno lands around 520 WHP. For example, earlier this week we took a sample of 7 Gen V Vipers on this dyno and the average was 521 WHP.

The main reason we always try to talk in terms of "gains" on this dyno, is all chassis dynos around the country are not created equal. I think our customer car track results continuously prove that point (our dyno numbers always seem to be lower compared to others, but track speeds are higher).

Intake air temp on the 742 WHP pull was 96° F.


https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4231/35099691640_c25c151398_o.jpg

[J TNT]

Nice numbers and work , thanks for sharing .

[txA&M08]

Below is the 742 WHP dyno sheet from the run in the video we posted versus a stock Gen V Viper baseline (the baseline was highest reported run of 3 pulls). As said before, the average of all stock Gen V Vipers baselined on this dyno lands around 520 WHP. For example, earlier this week we took a sample of 7 Gen V Vipers on this dyno and the average was 521 WHP.

That's insane. This thing would probably put down almost 800 wheel on a generous Dynojet in cool air.

[ViperDC]

Jesus. Those numbers are insane. Can you imagine this package with the 9L?

[Vegaskid]

Could you mod an existing stage 2?

[Jprince]

Could you mod an existing stage 2?

This was a stage 2. On his dyno it made 607hp before the Nth magic. His dyno is very low compared to most.

[biturboamg]

What happen to the headers I'm sure were removed for a custom set from them? That greats power on an NA build.

[Jprince]

What happen to the headers I'm sure were removed for a custom set from them? That greats power on an NA build.

They are at Nth Moto for sale.

[Nth Moto]

Here's a cold start, quick rip through the gears starting in 2nd, and hot idle.

Turn your volume up!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtEyiCXXps4

[Snakebit10]

THAT SOUNDS SICK!!

Not your usual sounding Viper exhaust note. I dig it. That fly by sounded more like a wail than the usual gutteral V10 music. Mean idle.

[slowhatch]

That's insane. This thing would probably put down almost 800 wheel on a generous Dynojet in cool air.

I was thinking the same. This is ridiculous. Granted this is NOT a cheap or bolt-on heads/cam setup, but good lord how impressive this is for an NA streetable build.

[Nth Moto]

I was thinking the same. This is ridiculous. Granted this is NOT a cheap or bolt-on heads/cam setup, but good lord how impressive this is for an NA streetable build.

I have to admit that it is pretty dang awesome to experience. Obviously people know us best for our twin turbo builds, but our experience and history with naturally aspirated engines definitely shows through with how well this combination produces power across the board. What's neat to think about is that we know what changes can be made beyond this to be even wilder in the future!

You are correct that this is far more than just a bolt-on heads/cam build; this is a fairly extensive complete vehicle transformation much like our forced induction builds, it's just missing the turbochargers! For the NA purist it's a gratifying and justifiable path to take, and the first time you crack the throttle and rip through the gears like this video you get a sense of accomplishment of "doing it the hard way".

[Steve M]

Any details on the headers you fabricated for this package? Primary size and design specs (tri-y vs. 5-into-1)? Was the choice made to do this because of lower than expected dyno numbers, or was this done purely in anticipation that the existing headers wouldn't get the job done?

[Nth Moto]

Any details on the headers you fabricated for this package? Primary size and design specs (tri-y vs. 5-into-1)? Was the choice made to do this because of lower than expected dyno numbers, or was this done purely in anticipation that the existing headers wouldn't get the job done?

We've been fabricating headers to suit each build, and the exhaust is fabricated accordingly to match. The header / exhaust calculations work closely in conjunction with our engine build design, so attributes like bad harmonics versus tubing dimensions can be avoided, and good attributes can be capitalized on. There have been builds where we've tested two, three, or more header revisions until the power curve is just right.

This build received our in-house fabricated 5-1 slip fit race headers with specific collector throat size and transition angles before exhaust. We'll dig up a picture of the header installed and will check with Jeff about posting them here.

[Steve M]

We've been fabricating headers to suit each build, and the exhaust is fabricated accordingly to match. The header / exhaust calculations work closely in conjunction with our engine build design, so attributes like bad harmonics versus tubing dimensions can be avoided, and good attributes can be capitalized on. There have been builds where we've tested two, three, or more header revisions until the power curve is just right.

This build received our in-house fabricated 5-1 slip fit race headers with specific collector throat size and transition angles before exhaust. We'll dig up a picture of the header installed and will check with Jeff about posting them here.

Dayum...no stone left unturned. Impressive. I would love to see pics, provided the owner is okay with it.

[Nth Moto]

Dayum...no stone left unturned. Impressive. I would love to see pics, provided the owner is okay with it.

Thank you, Steve!

Here is a driver's side picture of our 5-1 slip fit race header installed on this car. These were hand fabricated / welded in-house out of stainless and then a 2000° F ceramic coating was applied for additional heat control.


https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4289/35190539090_18393d9569_o.jpg

[boldtx]

Wow that is a work of art!

[Steve M]

Wow that is a work of art!

No kidding.

[38D]

Very nice tig welds on those headers.

[ACRSNK]

Man that thing sound angry!!!

[LmeaViper]

Thanks again for all the positive feedback, guys!







https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4231/35099691640_c25c151398_o.jpg


Awesome gains...
Surprised to see the TQ on stock drop off so much up top...never expected that.

[LmeaViper]

Here's a cold start, quick rip through the gears starting in 2nd, and hot idle.

Turn your volume up!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtEyiCXXps4

That sounds really good.

[Nth Moto]

Mission control interior.

A car with power output increased from the 645 factory rated horsepower to over 900 horsepower (without power adders), should still maintain a nicely appointed interior. We grafted the sequential gear indicator into the center console bezel, and leather wrapped everything to match factory. Hints of a race car, but still very refined.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4230/35610649786_0fc6a7bc17_o.jpg

[J TNT]

Very impressive !!! Looking forward to your 1/4 mile results . :drive:

[Nth Moto]

Some clutch-less driving around in the car. Thought you guys would enjoy seeing this!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvr0mw_ckEU

[Fulltilt]

Beautiful build. Is that an Emco transmission?

[kriskyk]

Are the down shifts clutchless as well?

[Nth Moto]

Beautiful build. Is that an Emco transmission?

Thank you. We've used EMCO transmissions in past builds, but this one is a PPG gearset inside of the Dodge 6060 case.

[Nth Moto]

Are the down shifts clutchless as well?

Yes, they sure are. The downshift rev-matching is automated and controlled through our custom Nth Moto MoTeC M1 ECU firmware. Driver just pushes the shift lever for each downshift.

[Snakebit10]

Impressive is an understatement. Just wondering if there is a reason the shifter is so tall on these types of transmissions? Is it for leverage? Everyone Ive seen across the board on different makes etc are all about this tall.
Also could paddle shifters be adapted for use with this mod? Please don't take this as a knock at all just thinking out loud.

[GTSilver]

Great build and gains as well !!

Quick question regarding the PPG gearbox can it be fitted on Arrow PCM ? don't mind cluth with downshifts if it cant be set with arrow pcm.

[38D]

I love these true sequential builds...just too cool! And Motec is awesome. I am building a M880 based race car and have an ADL2 dash on my current racer...it's awesome stuff.

[dmann]

Yes, they sure are. The downshift rev-matching is automated and controlled through our custom Nth Moto MoTeC M1 ECU firmware. Driver just pushes the shift lever for each downshift.

ok, thats just freakin cool.

[Racer_X]

Yep, Im trippin balls off this thread--- My pocket book just isn't worthy!!

[Jprince]

27085

[IHOP]

Impressive is an understatement. Just wondering if there is a reason the shifter is so tall on these types of transmissions? Is it for leverage? Everyone Ive seen across the board on different makes etc are all about this tall.
Also could paddle shifters be adapted for use with this mod? Please don't take this as a knock at all just thinking out loud.

I have the same questions but in no way am criticizing as well.

[38D]

Tall shifters in sequentials is to get it closer to the steering wheel and minimize the time you have one hand off the wheel during the shift.

[ACRSNK]

So cool!

[Murpowa]

Props to you guys for a sick build! Keep up the great work

[Jprince]

I finally had a chance to drive this corn fed snake and all I can say is even in our mid 90deg temps with humidity that is just miserable, this car is insanely FAST..... It is not just a little something that you have to put on a timer to know the difference.. It is a HUGE difference..... If you took a ride in it and had ear plugs and didn't know any different, you would think it had turbos. I can't wait to put this thing next to some other viper NA set ups to see the difference side by side.

[Arizona Vipers]

Yes, they sure are. The downshift rev-matching is automated and controlled through our custom Nth Moto MoTeC M1 ECU firmware. Driver just pushes the shift lever for each downshift.

Do you lose the factory stability control with the Motec or have you found a way to keep it?

[v10tt]

JPRINCE,

Congrats man!, how does it compare with your Arrow heads and cam through the rpm range?

[Jprince]

I really didn't give up power anywhere in the range, actually it gained power across the board. It is way easier to drive than I ever thought it would be. I have more learning to do because of the transmission than the engine change. The way this car starts pulling above 4500rpm and just keeps pulling to 7k is just crazy. And its still a torque monster down low. I loved my arrow heads and cam set up, but I just decided it was time for more. When I went to Aaron, I said that I wanted to just see how much we could get out of the car and stay NA. I have a good source of E85 which makes it very nice. I think Aaron and the guys did exactly what we set out to do and then some.I will post a dyno graph that shows the before and after.

[Jprince]

27437

[Jack B]

Is the 607 hp the Arrow HC?





I really didn't give up power anywhere in the range, actually it gained power across the board. It is way easier to drive than I ever thought it would be. I have more learning to do because of the transmission than the engine change. The way this car starts pulling above 4500rpm and just keeps pulling to 7k is just crazy. And its still a torque monster down low. I loved my arrow heads and cam set up, but I just decided it was time for more. When I went to Aaron, I said that I wanted to just see how much we could get out of the car and stay NA. I have a good source of E85 which makes it very nice. I think Aaron and the guys did exactly what we set out to do and then some.I will post a dyno graph that shows the before and after.

[v10tt]

I think it is.


Is the 607 hp the Arrow HC?

[Jprince]

I think it is.

Yes it is. But that's on Aaron's dyno. It made 630 on a local dyno.

[biturboamg]

Thank you, Steve!

Here is a driver's side picture of our 5-1 slip fit race header installed on this car. These were hand fabricated / welded in-house out of stainless and then a 2000° F ceramic coating was applied for additional heat control.


https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4289/35190539090_18393d9569_o.jpg


Those look amazing. Good job!

[Jprince]

If you go back and look at what the stage 2 arrow heads and cam set up claims is an increase of 90-100 hp from stock. Aaron has already shown that a stock car can fluctuate in power with 520 being an average on his dyno. Well if my car was on the lower end of that fluctuation then or even in the middle then 607 would be right where it should be. That's why Aaron and myself think that the only way to look at this is the amount of gain on the same dyno.

[SharpMan]

That sounds really good.

What exhaust system is this? I like the higher-pitch sound.

[Jprince]

2937729378
The timeslip with the 196.8 is my nth moto heads cam build running on pumpe85. No power adders. My car is also full weight, on toyo r888 tires. The other slip is a gentleman that was there that had a very beautiful car. It was a gen 3 with a supercharger, cam, etc. built by A&C Performance. His car made 725whp. There was also a stock gen 5 there that ran 120.9 1/4 mile, 147.2 1/2 mile, and 173.0 1 mile. The numbers just show how much the headwind was really knocking off of these cars. Also there is no track prep for traction, so that also affects the speed as well seeing that I couldn't use full power until 4th gear. I short shifted the first 3 gears. When you look at what the stock car ran in the 1/4 and the 1/2 compared to what the norm is for a stock gen 5, it really shows just what we were up against.
I can't wait to get this beast lined up at the track against some other NA builds to just really show what a monster Aaron and the guys at nth moto built for me.

[345s-bspinnin]

The timeslip with the 196.8 is my nth moto heads cam build running on pumpe85. No power adders. My car is also full weight, on toyo r888 tires. The other slip is a gentleman that was there that had a very beautiful car. It was a gen 3 with a supercharger, cam, etc. built by A&C Performance. His car made 725whp. There was also a stock gen 5 there that ran 120.9 1/4 mile, 147.2 1/2 mile, and 173.0 1 mile. The numbers just show how much the headwind was really knocking off of these cars. Also there is no track prep for traction, so that also affects the speed as well seeing that I couldn't use full power until 4th gear. I short shifted the first 3 gears. When you look at what the stock car ran in the 1/4 and the 1/2 compared to what the norm is for a stock gen 5, it really shows just what we were up against.
I can't wait to get this beast lined up at the track against some other NA builds to just really show what a monster Aaron and the guys at nth moto built for me.

Congrats on that pass. Those are very stout numbers. I am pretty confident that this officially our fastest NA viper of any generation. I ran 169.x at the half and 195.0 on the mile in my heads/cam Gen III vert back in 2012.

[Jprince]

Congrats on that pass. Those are very stout numbers. I am pretty confident that this officially our fastest NA viper of any generation. I ran 169.x at the half and 195.0 on the mile in my heads/cam Gen III vert back in 2012.

Thank you, That's really awesome if this is the fastest NA viper. I have no doubt that this car has a lot left in it. With a better launch, and a no headwind would yield a much better number. I have registered for the quick 30 in Houston on December 3rd. Trying to find someone that might have a set of 18" drag radials that I can borrow/rent for the event to what the car can put down in the 1/4.