OT Corvette Z06 Owners Hit GM With Class Action Lawsuit Because The Car Is So Bad

[ek1]

Whoops......

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/corvette-z06-owners-hit-gm-with-class-action-lawsuit-be-1796070293

Sure took Corvette guys long enough to stand up to GM's bullshit. Strangely, not a single C7 Z06 owner I met at the track admitted to their car overheating. "Never went into limp mode" they said...

And to think....I was negotiating with 2 Chevy dealers to buy one right before ACR was announced. Scary.

[One Viper Bite]

Good for them.

Not to open Pandora's box, but, we do have that whole spun bearing thing to worry about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[slowhatch]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/4d.gif

[str5010]

I've spoken with a few at the track that had the issue. I also managed to be at the track a few times in the past to witness C6 ZO6 engine hardware failures. Guess I'm back luck for Vette owners.

[Murpowa]

So, regarding the latest generations

Z06:
Cooling system/overheating
Transmission lockup

vs

Viper:
Leaking shocks
Differential whine
Spun bearings/Oil consumption
Kumho tire blow outs
Window regulators
Rear defroster

Probably missing a few items for either category, but if 'they' felt the need to file for class action...

[slowhatch]

So, regarding the latest generations

Z06:
Cooling system/overheating
Transmission lockup

vs

Viper:
Leaking shocks
Differential whine
Spun bearings/Oil consumption
Window regulators
Rear defroster

Probably missing a few items for either category, but if 'they' felt the need to file for class action...

You completely misunderstand the claims in the lawsuit.

[99Vipers]

Whoops......

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/corvette-z06-owners-hit-gm-with-class-action-lawsuit-be-1796070293

Sure took Corvette guys long enough to stand up to GM's bullshit. Strangely, not a single C7 Z06 owner I met at the track admitted to their car overheating. "Never went into limp mode" they said...

And to think....I was negotiating with 2 Chevy dealers to buy one right before ACR was announced. Scary.

Scary,lol....Viper owners only have to worry about engines self destructing , rear windows blowing out,differentials destroying themselves,doors opening involuntary,hood ducting flying off,alarm systems going off for no reason,etc,etc,etc

[ek1]

Good for them.

Not to open Pandora's box, but, we do have that whole spun bearing thing to worry about ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, and don't forget exploding rear windows, window regulators that fall apart, etc. That's all true...BUT....imagine buying a TRACK CAR and discovering it can not do a SINGLE 20-min track session without going into limp mode. Then imagine going to GM and being told to suck wind.

- - - Updated - - -


You completely misunderstand the claims in the lawsuit.

Thank you!

[Murpowa]

You completely misunderstand the claims in the lawsuit.

Could several of those issues listed for the viper not influence performance at the track or inability to track the car?

So, then what am I misunderstanding?

[ek1]

Could several of those issues listed for the viper not influence performance at the track or inability to track the car?

So, then what am I misunderstanding?

You are misunderstanding pretty much the entire issue. Both C7s and Vipers are great cars. Both have defects. Difference is - all of the Viper issues you listed are one-time defects fixed under warranty without as much as a peep from FCA. On the other hand, GM _STILL_ did not officially acknowledge the overheating issue (although they made some modifications for 2017), so now all the people that put their trust and hard earned money into a Z06 product are screwed. You can only imagine the time all those owners wasted trying to fight with GM to fix their cars. Not to mention money wasted on track events that they could not fully participate in. Insane. I hope this lawsuit forces GM to do a buyback program or to fix the cooling issues for good.

[Murpowa]

Difference is - all of the Viper issues you listed are one-time defects fixed under warranty without as much as a peep from FCA.

Disagree with the accuracy of that statement.

Nonetheless, my original point was that viper owners seemingly have it 'worse' then Vette owners but aren't crying uncle

[ek1]

Disagree with the accuracy of that statement.

Nonetheless, my original point was that viper owners seemingly have it 'worse' then Vette owners but aren't crying uncle

I dont know, man....if you ask me, it doesn't get much worse than buying a track car and discovering you can't actually track it, and there is not a damn thing you can do about it (except getting rid of it and taking a huge haircut in a process).

[str5010]

Two guys were shopping for high speed ocean transport ships. One guy bought ship A. His ship has peeling paint, a wonky tachometer and a strange sound coming from the hull, but his cargo made it across the ocean and set a crossing record in the process. He even went back across the ocean for another load.

The other guy bought ship B. His ship sank 15 minutes into the trip and his jean shorts got wet.

Extreme but there it is.

[Murpowa]

^^ lmao, perfect

[swexlin]

Two guys were shopping for high speed ocean transport ships. One guy bought ship A. His ship has peeling paint, a wonky tachometer and a strange sound coming from the hull, but his cargo made it across the ocean and set a crossing record in the process. He even went back across the ocean for another load.

The other guy bought ship B. His ship sank 15 minutes into the trip and his jean shorts got wet.

Extreme but there it is.

Sean, you win the internet today! "Jean shorts"!!!! Love it!

[ACRucrazy]

Two guys were shopping for high speed ocean transport ships. One guy bought ship A. His ship has peeling paint, a wonky tachometer and a strange sound coming from the hull, but his cargo made it across the ocean and set a crossing record in the process. He even went back across the ocean for another load.

The other guy bought ship B. His ship sank 15 minutes into the trip and his jean shorts got wet.

Extreme but there it is.

I laughed.

[One Viper Bite]

Two guys were shopping for high speed ocean transport ships. One guy bought ship A. His ship has peeling paint, a wonky tachometer and a strange sound coming from the hull, but his cargo made it across the ocean and set a crossing record in the process. He even went back across the ocean for another load.

The other guy bought ship B. His ship sank 15 minutes into the trip and his jean shorts got wet.

Extreme but there it is.

I'm in 100% in agreement that the Z06 issue is not the same as our issue (I'm not highlighting all the other dumb stuff because I don't care about those).

But how about this scenario:

Two guys were shopping for high speed ocean transport ships.

One guy bought ship B. His ship sank 15 minutes into the trip and his jean shorts got wet.

The other guy bought ship A. His ship has peeling paint, a wonky tachometer and a strange sound coming from the hull, but his cargo made it across the ocean and set a crossing record in the process. He even went back across the ocean for another load. However, on one of his consecutive trips, his ship spontaneously exploded. The ship manufacturer later told him his ship exploded because he brought his dog onboard the ship and that he was responsible.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm gonna pick ship A every single time, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't try and get the manufacturer of ship A to do something other than give me the exact same ship and hope it doesn't explode on me again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[swexlin]

I'm in 100% in agreement that the Z06 issue is not the same as our issue (I'm not highlighting all the other dumb stuff because I don't care about those).

But how about this scenario:

Two guys were shopping for high speed ocean transport ships.

One guy bought ship B. His ship sank 15 minutes into the trip and his jean shorts got wet.

The other guy bought ship A. His ship has peeling paint, a wonky tachometer and a strange sound coming from the hull, but his cargo made it across the ocean and set a crossing record in the process. He even went back across the ocean for another load. However, on one of his consecutive trips, his ship spontaneously exploded. The ship manufacturer later told him his ship exploded because he brought his dog onboard the ship and that he was responsible.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm gonna pick ship A every single time, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't try and get the manufacturer of ship A to do something other than give me the exact same ship and hope it doesn't explode on me again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Very good as well!

[AZTVR]

I'm in 100% in agreement that the Z06 issue is not the same as our issue (I'm not highlighting all the other dumb stuff because I don't care about those).

But how about this scenario:

Two guys were shopping for high speed ocean transport ships.

One guy bought ship B. His ship sank 15 minutes into the trip and his jean shorts got wet.

The other guy bought ship A. His ship has peeling paint, a wonky tachometer and a strange sound coming from the hull, but his cargo made it across the ocean and set a crossing record in the process. He even went back across the ocean for another load. However, on one of his consecutive trips, his ship spontaneously exploded. The ship manufacturer later told him his ship exploded because he brought his dog onboard the ship and that he was responsible.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm gonna pick ship A every single time, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't try and get the manufacturer of ship A to do something other than give me the exact same ship and hope it doesn't explode on me again.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I thought that the manufacturer of ship A bought back the ship from the third owner even though the ship was abused by the 2nd owner? That seems like a much different scenario than the ship B scenario where the manufacturer repeatedly has said the the product has no defect.

[str5010]

Wait which obedience school did the dog attend?

[Vegaskid]

Very few Gen v engines blow up

Lots of z06 overheat on track

[IndyRon]

Very few Gen v engines blow up

Lots of z06 overheat on track

Possibly...although, I'm not sure anyone has pulled bearings on a Gen 5 and not seen at least moderate dmg to the surfaces, even if the engine hasn't blown.

[ACRucrazy]

Very few Gen v engines blow up

Lots of z06 overheat on track

The overheated z06 can drive home from the track... the spun bearing Vipers can't.

Just saying those with glass rear hatches shouldn't throw stones..

[RdyPlr1]

You are misunderstanding pretty much the entire issue. Both C7s and Vipers are great cars. Both have defects. Difference is - all of the Viper issues you listed are one-time defects fixed under warranty without as much as a peep from FCA. On the other hand, GM _STILL_ did not officially acknowledge the overheating issue (although they made some modifications for 2017), so now all the people that put their trust and hard earned money into a Z06 product are screwed. You can only imagine the time all those owners wasted trying to fight with GM to fix their cars. Not to mention money wasted on track events that they could not fully participate in. Insane. I hope this lawsuit forces GM to do a buyback program or to fix the cooling issues for good.


GM also Failed to acknowledge the valve guide issue in the c6Z as many c6z owners blew their engines at the track. I have personally seen 4 corvettes dump oil while running a session.

[06SRTCoupe]

As others have said, all the issues with the Viper have been fixed, under warranty, without question. The overheating issue with the C7Z has not been addressed by GM and people are SOL. What is even more trouble to me...GM took that car to its proving grounds for countless hours of tests under extreme track conditions. How many times did their car go into limp mode? Everyone here knows that HAD to happen a bunch. The notion, backed by a lot of supporting evidence, that they simply ignored the problem and put the car into production is, at the very least, troubling.

GM needs to do the right thing and collaborate with some top performance shops, engineers, etc, and make it right for the people who own C7Z's...

[06SRTCoupe]

The overheated z06 can drive home from the track... the spun bearing Vipers can't.

Just saying those with glass rear hatches shouldn't throw stones..

You are right, but it's still a bad comparison. The Viper will get towed to a dealership, at their expense, and have a brand new, warrantied engine installed...free of charge. Also, a spun bearing on the Gen V engines are few and far between...the C7Z WILL overheat if you take it to the track and that has been proven countless times.

There is no help from GM on fixing the cooling issue. Let's also not forget that GM campaigned and touted this car as a track ready animal. That, in my opinion, is what makes it even worse.

LG Motorsports offers a cooling package for the C7Z. After all the options are added (which are actually a must), the total is 7500...and that doesn't include installation or shipping.

[ViperSRT]

A basic problem for this site is that every failure becomes widely known and repeated to the point that all here believe them to be regular if not daily experiences.

[City]

A basic problem for this site is that every failure becomes widely known and repeated to the point that all here believe them to be regular if not daily experiences.

Actually every car forum. But you are absolutely spot on. Even this discussion about a corvette issue becomes a "Viper by comparison" discussion. Love the internet!

[rw99]

Anybody that bought a C7 Z06 in 2016 or later should've known what they were getting into... and looked elsewhere for a track car. Right from the get-go we saw Z06s puking up coolant on mild, temperate days at Seca.

But I'm interested in the result of this legal maneuver. I bought one at a great price (a 2016 A8) as a daily driver/fun car, and it's been excellent. And I signed on (piled on?) to the proposed class action mostly out of curiosity; I'm expecting that compensation (if any) will be apportioned such that maybe I'll get an oil change out of it ;)


Rich

[ACRucrazy]

As others have said, all the issues with the Viper have been fixed, under warranty, without question..

False

[ViperJon]

But I'm interested in the result of this legal maneuver. I bought one at a great price (a 2016 A8) as a daily driver/fun car, and it's been excellent. And I signed on (piled on?) to the proposed class action mostly out of curiosity; I'm expecting that compensation (if any) will be apportioned such that maybe I'll get an oil change out of it ;)

Rich

Seriously....how could they possibly compensate tens of thousands of owners?

[06SRTCoupe]

False

From what I've read from owners on here and other sites...the motors were replaced under warranty...you know...the powertrain warranty that comes with the car when you buy it?

Do you have anything factual to back up your one word responses?

[rw99]

Seriously....how could they possibly compensate tens of thousands of owners?

Well, yeah, exactly. That's why I'll be participating in the class action, if it goes forward... let's see what happens.

What if compensation included a coupon on a C8, or ZR1? Arguably, this might only serve to mitigate devaluation of the car being traded/sold...

[Bruce H.]

Hard to know if the lawsuit will go forward but GM should be held accountable in some way for knowingly deceiving track rats and performance enthusiasts they targeted by marketing the C7 as "the most track capable Corvette ever". GM's testing of the Z51 and Z06 models at many race tracks would have exposed the limitations of the cooling systems for such use but they lacked the commitment to fix the problem, adhering to their decades-old modus operandi of calculating that it's less costly to deal with a problem after-the-fact than to avoid it in the first place.

Many owners experiencing overheating would have given up, sold the car, took the loss, and moved on to another platform...effectively letting GM off the hook. I'd like to think a publicized lawsuit might make them more careful about their product design and marketing claims in the future, but at the very least it might help future tracking buyers to independently verify the car's suitability for aggressive track use.

And on the flip side, the vast majority of Z51 and Z06 owners won't experience these issues under their type of use and will continue to deny and discredit any suggestion that there is an issue!

Caveat emptor

[ACRucrazy]

From what I've read from owners on here and other sites...the motors were replaced under warranty...you know...the powertrain warranty that comes with the car when you buy it?

Do you have anything factual to back up your one word responses?

If you have spent a bit of time on the forums you would have seen several threads where Gen V owners have had an uphill battle to have blown engines warrantied. To say all Viper owners have had all issues fixed without question would be a false statement. Even dealers have commented how about all those who care about the Viper are gone, making certain warranty repairs difficult for owners.

[Mbccenter]

Seen a ACR-E lock up a engine last weekend. 2k miles on it. What good is a warranty to just get another crap engine. There is some problem with the design of the gen v engine and FCA refuses to fix it. Kinda the same thing.

[Bruce H.]

Seen a ACR-E lock up a engine last weekend. 2k miles on it. What good is a warranty to just get another crap engine. There is some problem with the design of the gen v engine and FCA refuses to fix it. Kinda the same thing.

Viper engine failures have been extremely rare since mid MY2014 production whereas all C7's suffer from the same overheating issue caused by a cooling system that was not designed with adequate capacity for its promoted use. No similarity. And no reason to believe the ACR's replacement engine won't be perfect.

[ACRucrazy]

Viper engine failures have been extremely rare since mid MY2014 production whereas all C7's suffer from the same overheating issue caused by a cooling system that was not designed with adequate capacity for its promoted use. No similarity. And no reason to believe the ACR's replacement engine won't be perfect.

Kind of like no reason to believe the original won't be perfect?

[Bruce H.]

Kind of like no reason to believe the original won't be perfect?

Exactly. You're trying to twist the exception to be the rule...and clearly it isn't.

[ACRucrazy]

Exactly. You're trying to twist the exception to be the rule...and clearly it isn't.

Not at all. I just know how often I see Calvo Motorsports post photos of them doing new bearings on relatively new Vipers in the FB group. If anyone thinks the Gen V problems stopped in 2014 they are only kidding themselves. It seems every other week one pops up.. in a low production car. I was going to mention that '16 ACR Matt mentioned but I figured I'd let someone else. If you pay any attention at all these V motors have something up.

[swexlin]

Not at all. I just know how often I see Calvo Motorsports post photos of them doing new bearings on relatively new Vipers in the FB group. If anyone thinks the Gen V problems stopped in 2014 they are only kidding themselves. It seems every other week one pops up.. in a low production car. I was going to mention that '16 ACR Matt mentioned but I figured I'd let someone else. If you pay any attention at all these V motors have something up.

I have to agree with this. Reminds me of the 6.0 Liter Ford Powerstroke engine over a decade ago. Either you got a good one, or you didn't. Very hit or miss, but there were a lot of misses.

[Nine Ball]

Seems like there are a bunch of butt-hurt past and current C7Z owners responding in this thread. Still in denial about the overheating issues, perhaps?

The lack of cooling affects 100% of all C7Z's built. Any driver that can go 8/10ths around a track can make it happen, it has been proven numerous times. Those who like to defend their C7Z 1. Do not track it, and 2. If they track it, they are slow drivers, or 3. They only track in sub-60F temps.

As for Vipers and spun bearings, leaking shocks, rear window defroster issues, those don't affect 100% of the vehicles built. They affect a very small percentage of those built. You can't logically compare the two here. If there was an issue that was 100% on all Vipers built, it would also deserve a recall or class action suit.

Just keeping it factual here, not emotional.

[ACRucrazy]

Can you drive 100% of the C7Zs on the street without the cooling issue happen?

[Bruce H.]

I support fellow track enthusiasts who were intentionally mislead by GM about the track capability of the car. I have one track buddy with a '15 Z06 M7 that specifically purchased the car for its promoted track capabilities. He experienced soaring temps on his first outing on two different tracks, which only got worse as he became able to drive more aggressively with familiarity with the tracks. He no longer tracks the car. Another with a C7 Z51 M7 overheated everything each time out and required multiple warranty claims related to that. He gave up and sold the car. They both marvel at how cool the Viper runs on track.

There are a lot of satisfied Gen V track rats who are probably very thankful that they didn't buy the C7 for their aggressive track use. Most would agree that the C7 is a wonderful and capable car for the street, except those who somehow manage to overheat them there also, but the issue isn't with those that don't test the suitability of the cooling system under easier use, but rather for those that use it under the more demanding conditions for which it was supposedly designed.

[ACRucrazy]

Lets hop in a our forum wayback machine and go to the year of 2014, month January..


Of course the turbos would need upgrading but like I said earlier, you don't see everyone running around with bolt on 900rwhp ZR1's, though you do see 650-700rwhp ones from time to time. I think I can get nearly the same power from my NA viper with boltons (I'll be trying for 650rw this spring). It isn't any harder to change out turbos if you can reuse the OE manifolds so that isn't really an issue or argument in favor of a supercharger. My implication isn't that the motor isn't stout, it's just that a TVS style motor isn't the optimal design for hard lapping at the track...there is a natural handicap inherent with the design vs a well sorted NA or even turbo setup. The ZR1 guys that track their cars know it and compensate with bigger radiators, etc, and also acknowlege that the Z06 with carbon brakes is just a better balanced and handling car, all else equal, due to the decreased weight and lack of heat soak properties among other things.

The reason for my comment was GM stating "this will be the most track-capable corvette ever" and then putting on the exact same parts that made the ZR1 less of a track-capable car over the Z06 in the last gen. Being track-capable is not the same thing as capable of driving it on the track.

IndyRon gets the internet cookies of the day. What a crystal ball he had!


26484

[IndyRon]

They did advertise the Vette as the "most track capable corvette ever" and because of that there is some grounds for the suit. Although like Tony implied, most Z06 owners won't hit redline, let alone a track.

I do agree with ACRucrazy in regards to the bearing issue on the Viper though. Bruce stated that the internet tends to skew the perception of prevalence when it comes to these types of issues and I agree with that. The part that is most concerning isn't the number of engines that have catastrophically failed, its the fact that the tuners like Nth and Calvo have shown that at least the majority/all of the cars they have worked on have shown significant bearing wear at low mileage during builds. The published culprit was dirty blocks/casting sand/residue and that issue has never been proven to be remedied. Yes, a block cleaning station was installed but we are just assuming that it has fully corrected the issue.

I REALLY REALLY REALLY want a Gen 5 ACR-E in white/black/red drivers stripe but I never leave my junk stock and that's what is concerning to me. If I did leave it stock, and bought a 10 yr extended warranty should we feel confident that say 6 years from now that engines and dealership viper techs will be prevalent if I spin a bearing? I'm not trying to down the product because I drool over them daily and still plan on getting into one, but these issues have to be a factor on anything other than an emotional purchase of one.

[Bruce H.]

Ron, if you factor the cost of a new motor into your track budget that would be relatively minor compared to the high costs of the ACR-E purchase, track prep/mods, consumables, track fees, travel/accommodation, insurance, repairs, maintenance, ect. It's an expensive hobby...kind of like your home theater ;) It's what we sign up for. I sure don't know a better platform to put my track budget into for performance at this level, with 25000 miles and countless track days on mine I sure don't fret over the fear and negativity of so many, and I can't help but notice that other track rats aren't generally among them either.

[IndyRon]

Ron, if you factor the cost of a new motor into your track budget that would be relatively minor compared to the high costs of the ACR-E purchase, track prep/mods, consumables, track fees, travel/accommodation, insurance, repairs, maintenance, ect. It's an expensive hobby...kind of like your home theater ;) It's what we sign up for. I sure don't know a better platform to put my track budget into for performance at this level, with 25000 miles and countless track days on mine I sure don't fret over the fear and negativity of so many, and I can't help but notice that other track rats aren't generally among them either.

Bruce, that's exactly my plan! I'm just waiting for the Gen 5 ACR-E prices to come out of the stratosphere so I can justify just sending the car to Nth or Calvo from the get go. Realistically, maybe I find myself out of the hardcore track club as well. I'll be ripping on the street 10x as much as any of my cars spend on the track.

[Coloviper]

It's quite simple! Like the HP/motor issues of the 99' Mustang SVT Cobra and other manufacturers, the new ZO6 has issues from the factory and it will take a class action lawsuit to get GM off its behind to provide a fix that fixes it for good since GM is not really acknowledging it is a real problem. Good luck to those owners and hopefully they can get the fix, like the 99 SVT Cobra owners did back in 99'.

I don't think the GEN V Vipers suffering from the same neglect. Don't think anyone can cite a single STOCK Gen V that has had a motor blown or whatever issue that did not get an immediate replacement or things fixed from FCA. Modified ones have been denied but stock ones, all have been fixed and continue to be fixed. Big difference in factory response between the two. The General has big bucks and needs to make their owners whole.

[swexlin]

Colo, I remember Eugene's stock ACR (the one that was just feature on Doug Demuro's YouTube) took a long time to get a new motor after the original one blew. Eugene posted about it here.