PDA

View Full Version : Gen V can you heel toe



dhx
06-12-2017, 11:00 PM
I'm trying to learn to heal toe. I understand the concept, but my brake pedal sticks out so much further than my gas pedal that the only way to get them level is to be braking almost to the max. I've found that I can't naturally twist my ankle to the angle needed to blip the throttle, and that even when the pedal is down further I still struggle to move my ankle the way i've been shown. Am I just inexperienced, or lazy, or born with messed up ankles :)

sharmut
06-13-2017, 02:49 AM
Using the gas pedal extension helps bring the brake and gas pedal closer to the same level. Took some adjustment with the pedals at a closer plane.
http://www.ipsco.org/Viper_files/SRT%20Gas%20Pedal%20Extension%20Kit.htm

I found the same limitation with rotating my ankle to catch the gas with my heel. Instead I use half of my foot on the brake and roll the right side to catch the gas.

FrankBarba
06-13-2017, 04:53 AM
Some guys are starting to learn left foot breaking....

stradman
06-13-2017, 08:23 AM
Its actually a misnomer. Its more like Toe 'n' side footing as Sharmut has described. I don't think anyone actually heel and toe's per say as name infers. The IPSCO extension is a must....

13COBRA
06-13-2017, 08:23 AM
Some guys are starting to learn left foot breaking....

I've tried that....felt like a fish out of water. Haha

stradman
06-13-2017, 09:18 AM
I've tried that....felt like a fish out of water. Haha
Its just a question of getting used to it really. Best way to learn is to practice on the road and use your left foot for braking. Initially whens its safe and progressively more and more. Once you've gotten used to it, its a cinch and can occasionally be helpful in tucking in the front when the car pushes-in which case you are using the throttle and brake at the same time more or less.

Boosted Motorsports
06-13-2017, 10:55 AM
I've been getting pretty good at this lately and I think my OEM pedals are harder to do this than you guys. Heel-Toe as the name suggests is a little misleading. I've seen some Japanese drivers with very small feet actually use their heel and toe but most of us it is just not possible.

Instead position your foot so that the main joint of your big toe is what you are applying braking with. Once you get comfortable braking with your big toe hanging "above the actual pedal" you will find your heel is floating and available. Then you can use a combination of the outside of your foot/heel to blip the throttle to rev-match.

Check out this video for what I mean. Notice his toes are not touching the brake pedal and actually above it.


https://youtu.be/hGYmzFu8sxg

stradman
06-13-2017, 04:25 PM
Having said that Heel and toeing is a dying art what with all the flappy paddle automated gearboxes......

GTS Dean
06-13-2017, 06:54 PM
Bondurant teaches heel & toe downshifting where you actually put your heel on the gas pedal and toes on the brake pedal. It's very odd at first, but it works for me and I never have my foot slip off and get between the pedals.

Racingswh
06-13-2017, 07:09 PM
Heel is on the floor near the accelerator. Left side ball of your foot is on the brake. Brake is depressed. Use heel and right side of your foot to blip the throttle. If you are catching too much of the throttle as you depress the brake move your foot further onto the brake.

Here's heel and toe downshifting by one of the best. See how he moves the bottom right side of his foot over to blip the throttle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyM-egecTlw

Also notice he uses his left foot to pump the brakes pistons against the rotors but he does not left foot brake. Most people that do it aren't any faster using their left foot than they are using their right on the brakes.

In a flappy paddle car I never use my right foot to brake simply because the transitions to power are smoother and faster using my left foot to brake. I am no quicker however using left foot braking in a MN trans car.

LmeaViper
06-13-2017, 07:12 PM
I have done it both ways and to be honest (for me at least) it seems like a harder car than most to do it on. I usually go to rolling the foot method as the pedals are really close together. I think part of the reason is the brake pedal is pretty stiff on our cars and doesn't take massive amount of pressure to operate compared to other cars I drove in the past. Also the IPSCO pedal mod helped.

Exhlr8n
06-13-2017, 11:20 PM
Anyone try the "Blip Shift" Box that was posted awhile back?

GTS-14
06-14-2017, 01:46 AM
Used the IPSCO pedal extension to learn practising on the street but on the track with hard braking I'd catch the accelerator on occasion. Felt like braking on a glass surface. Anyways once I got comfortable heel toeing switched back to an extensionless gas pedal.

stradman
06-14-2017, 08:21 AM
Heel is on the floor near the accelerator. Left side ball of your foot is on the brake. Brake is depressed. Use heel and right side of your foot to blip the throttle. If you are catching too much of the throttle as you depress the brake move your foot further onto the brake.

Here's heel and toe downshifting by one of the best. See how he moves the bottom right side of his foot over to blip the throttle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyM-egecTlw

Also notice he uses his left foot to pump the brakes pistons against the rotors but he does not left foot brake. Most people that do it aren't any faster using their left foot than they are using their right on the brakes.

In a flappy paddle car I never use my right foot to brake simply because the transitions to power are smoother and faster using my left foot to brake. I am no quicker however using left foot braking in a MN trans car.

I'm afraid I can't see jack of that guys feet in the video. However if you want to see the best formula 1 has ever seen do it, here is Ayrton Senna.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ekbvjyr0g
As you can see he rolls the side of the foot mainly.

FSTENUF
06-14-2017, 08:45 AM
I did the Bondurant school for 2 days. Heel toe was one of my biggest reasons for going. The foot well in a ACR is smaller then the foot well in a Challenger. It is much easier to heel toe a ACR. Ball of foot on brake last 2 toes hit the gas. 20 minutes up and down the front straight down shifting and you do it on auto pilot.

dhx
06-14-2017, 09:51 AM
I actually can't roll my foot onto the accelerator in this car. Perhaps with the extension I can, but I can't even come close, even while braking. I don't know if it's the way this car is, or my natural limitation.

Angleiron
06-14-2017, 10:22 AM
Bondurant teaches heel & toe downshifting where you actually put your heel on the gas pedal and toes on the brake pedal. It's very odd at first, but it works for me and I never have my foot slip off and get between the pedals.

When I was there I was told to use the ball of my foot on the brake so that only the left 1/2 was braking. When you wanted to blip the throttle do not move your foot but instead just kick/move your knee to the right. This puts the other 1/2 of the foot onto the gas pedal, and it was easier to do (for me at least). Do not have your heal resting on the floor.

Racingswh
06-14-2017, 10:32 AM
I'm afraid I can't see jack of that guys feet in the video. However if you want to see the best formula 1 has ever seen do it, here is Ayrton Senna.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ekbvjyr0g
As you can see he rolls the side of the foot mainly.

Seen it many times. Top left of the foot on the brake. Lower right side hitting the gas. He wouldn't be able to drive the Viper in those shoes. lol!!

A nice view of H & T

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdWSyrqEnE4

Left Foot braking. He doesn't have to use the clutch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOjQkAj6r04

Racingswh
06-14-2017, 10:36 AM
I actually can't roll my foot onto the accelerator in this car. Perhaps with the extension I can, but I can't even come close, even while braking. I don't know if it's the way this car is, or my natural limitation.

If you're trying to do it on the street it can be difficult. The brake pedal is up too high in many cases and the brake pressure required to slow the car normally isn't enough. Need real brake pressure to get the brake pedal even with the accelerator which makes it much easier.

dmann
06-14-2017, 01:57 PM
I think its a little harder on these cars as i didnt have any problems on my last Z06. If you have big feet its even harder(like having flippers lol) and not to mention the pedal box in a viper being a little tight.
I am going to be working on left foot braking, especially for straights that i don't have to downshift.

dhx
06-14-2017, 05:03 PM
If you're trying to do it on the street it can be difficult. The brake pedal is up too high in many cases and the brake pressure required to slow the car normally isn't enough. Need real brake pressure to get the brake pedal even with the accelerator which makes it much easier.

Good point, maybe ill go out late at night and see what I can do

Racingswh
06-14-2017, 05:30 PM
Good point, maybe ill go out late at night and see what I can do

I learned to heel and toe in my garage with the car off as well as back in the Jim Russell series in 1991 again with the car off. Those little formula cars had a non synchromesh gear box and you had to do it to match revs for a decent downchange. I did it with my eyes closed and visualized the track. It helped me with the proper mechanics and no possibility of an over rev.

The pedal placement in a Viper is challenging. If you do not do it well in one don't feel bad for a moment. I commend you for trying to learn on one. I suggest you get the mechanics and timing down with the car off. It will appreciate your kindness.

LmeaViper
06-14-2017, 08:05 PM
Seen it many times. Top left of the foot on the brake. Lower right side hitting the gas. He wouldn't be able to drive the Viper in those shoes. lol!!


Left Foot braking. He doesn't have to use the clutch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOjQkAj6r04

You know anyone who does this in a Viper though?

Racingswh
06-15-2017, 06:07 AM
You know anyone who does this in a Viper though?

Left foot brake without using the clutch? Not that I know of unless it's a sequential like in a Comp Coupe. Someone that drives one could better answer that question.

My point of the video was to point out that you can left foot brake easily if you do not have to use the clutch.

Much, much harder to left foot brake when you have to use the clutch. The variation in pressure needed to use either pedal is hard to compensate for in a blink. You press the clutch all the way in. You press the brake with varying degrees of pressure. Asking your left leg to do both is tough, at least for me.

Even in clutchless paddle shift cars some of the best drivers in the world use their right foot to brake.

Lastly if you were referring to shifting without clutching our Viper transmissions won't like that for long. Can it be done? Sure. I personally have never seen a performance benefit that would outweigh the cost of the transmission repair.

LmeaViper
06-17-2017, 06:26 PM
When I was there I was told to use the ball of my foot on the brake so that only the left 1/2 was braking. When you wanted to blip the throttle do not move your foot but instead just kick/move your knee to the right. This puts the other 1/2 of the foot onto the gas pedal, and it was easier to do (for me at least). Do not have your heal resting on the floor.

I tried this method and actually liked it. thks

lmcgrew79
06-18-2017, 12:01 PM
I'm trying to learn to heal toe. I understand the concept, but my brake pedal sticks out so much further than my gas pedal that the only way to get them level is to be braking almost to the max. I've found that I can't naturally twist my ankle to the angle needed to blip the throttle, and that even when the pedal is down further I still struggle to move my ankle the way i've been shown. Am I just inexperienced, or lazy, or born with messed up ankles :)

You need to make sure your seating position is correct as much as the pedals, if you can imagine if you have more weight on your right hip sitting in a chair and try to rotate your ankle its pretty hard to do, if a bit more twisted on the left you will find its much easier. On the viper i generally move the adjustable pedals all the way down and then bring them up just a tiny bid, like hit the button and let off. You can roll your foot with the viper or use your heel, i use my heel but have been doing heel toe since ive started going to the track 10 years ago so its very normal for me. Largest problem i see with students trying to heel toe is the come off the brake pedal to much while blipping, so keeping that constant brake pressure is probably harder than heel toeing the blip. You can practice on the street somewhat just for the motion, but its alot different under full braking. There are times you dont need to heel toe either, its mainly in the large brake zones where you are gearing down to 2nd, not in every turn, i also skip gears when down shifting and do it towards the end of a braking area from 5th to 2nd or 4th to 2nd, some people grab every gear on the way down, either way is fine, i find one shift/heel toe is less things to do.

dhx
06-19-2017, 08:46 AM
I tried again last night, and I really don't like the pedal feel and having to move my ankle/leg in a way that I don't think my bone structure can do. That plus the fact that my helmet is so uncomfortably against the roof (I am 6'0" but I have a long torso) is making me think this is not the right car to start learning on the track. I think perhaps an old boxster or cayman might be more appropriate.

Racingswh
06-19-2017, 09:18 AM
I tried again last night, and I really don't like the pedal feel and having to move my ankle/leg in a way that I don't think my bone structure can do. That plus the fact that my helmet is so uncomfortably against the roof (I am 6'0" but I have a long torso) is making me think this is not the right car to start learning on the track. I think perhaps an old boxster or cayman might be more appropriate.

The same battle I have too. I am jammed in the car at 6"2". The cars are fast and you're uncomfortable. Hard to learn new stuff when that's the environment.

I had a 2003 C2 Carrera and in that pedal placement was great for heel toe. The car had plenty of room for me in it. Boxster or Cayman may very well be just the same.

You could really get the mechanics of the whole thing down in another car and then try and bring over and use what you have learned in the Viper. I do like that idea.

Nine Ball
06-19-2017, 09:28 AM
I do it, but could not before installing that IPSCO pedal spacer that was mentioned in the first response. So much easier now.

Canadian venom
06-19-2017, 12:30 PM
I do it, but could not before installing that IPSCO pedal spacer that was mentioned in the first response. So much easier now.

This one ? And on wich of your car did you installed it? The TA?
26485

stradman
06-19-2017, 02:38 PM
This one ? And on wich of your car did you installed it? The TA?
26485

Yes that's the one. I couldn't do a comfortable or slick heel and toe without that extension on my ACR

GTS Dean
06-19-2017, 05:24 PM
I am going to be working on left foot braking, especially for straights that i don't have to downshift.

On older Gen 1 & 2 Vipers, the last thing you wanted to do was have any extra brake drag generating heat to boil the brake fluid. With the Gen3+ cars, most of those old gremlins are gone forever. You just don't know how good you have it now... ;) Just remember that the only time the brakes cool is when your foot is OFF the brake pedal. Left foot braking can be problematic in this regard.

sharmut
06-21-2017, 02:14 PM
I found the heel/toe deal a lot easier to do with a full harness as apposed to just using the seat belt. As mentioned earlier in this thread you really need to have your butt planted in the seat. If you are supporting any of your weight with ether of your feet or legs it's tough. It go's without saying that a pair of driving shoes are a must with this maneuver.

Good point, had not considered the harness helping. Guess that's next on my list.

FSTENUF
06-21-2017, 06:12 PM
Good point, had not considered the harness helping. Guess that's next on my list.

It dose make a difference being strapped in and your butt planted in the seat.

sharmut
06-21-2017, 11:02 PM
It dose make a difference being strapped in and your butt planted in the seat.

What you're saying is I'm making the exercise harder than it needs to be without a harness.:)

FSTENUF
06-22-2017, 12:35 PM
What you're saying is I'm making the exercise harder than it needs to be without a harness.:)
If you are using your feet to hold you in the seat while heel /toeing the answer is YES. You should be able to just use your left foot to keep stable and right foot should be weight free to make the shift.

Dr.Ron
06-22-2017, 01:35 PM
I too tried it and only got it right 1 out 3 or 4 tries, and I found getting it wrong slowing from 145-70 wasn't a good time to get it wrong!
So, I licked my wounds and got an Auto-blip and now I NEVER have to worry about it! Perfect rev matches every time! I figured why not, even some manuals come with rev matching now so I don't feel like I'm cheating.

Ron

Bill Pemberton
06-22-2017, 04:40 PM
Agree with GTS Dean , but the key to heel and toe is not that one way is right and another wrong, as would not surprise me one bit that one Instructor at Bondurant would tell you one way and another be somewhat different. Having been fortunate to go to 10 different schools over the years, the best way to heel and toe is the one that is comfortable to you. It may be heel on the gas or heel on the brake , but with pedals different in a variety of machines it can be an exercise in pedal ballet. Some folks even do a roll technique and just work on practicing the dance , but once successful for your style , it will come naturally and surprisingly quite easily.

I find the Viper one of the easiest to do this with, but it has a lot to do with using my foot in a somewhat, mildly twisted position, with my heel on the gas. Have plenty of guys who do it differently , but once mastered ( and it will take time) , it often becomes quite easy to assimilate to different cars. Do the dance , reward your lap times.

BlueAdder
06-29-2017, 06:12 PM
I found the heel/toe deal a lot easier to do with a full harness as apposed to just using the seat belt. As mentioned earlier in this thread you really need to have your butt planted in the seat. If you are supporting any of your weight with ether of your feet or legs it's tough. It go's without saying that a pair of driving shoes are a must with this maneuver.

Funny enough I find it easier to do it in the ACR with my Van's rather than my driving shoes. The difference is probably that the driving shoes are narrower than the Van's. I just need to practice it with the driving shoes for awhile.

Smokin
07-04-2017, 12:33 AM
Using the gas pedal extension helps bring the brake and gas pedal closer to the same level. Took some adjustment with the pedals at a closer plane.
http://www.ipsco.org/Viper_files/SRT%20Gas%20Pedal%20Extension%20Kit.htm

I found the same limitation with rotating my ankle to catch the gas with my heel. Instead I use half of my foot on the brake and roll the right side to catch the gas.

Does the ipsco extension pedal work on a gen 5?

ForTehNguyen
07-04-2017, 07:08 AM
yes Im using it in mine

LmeaViper
07-04-2017, 07:08 PM
Does the ipsco extension pedal work on a gen 5?

Yup..like a charm.

ViperNC
08-08-2020, 04:22 PM
Thought I would resurrect this old thread before my upcoming track day in the Viper. I've got two cars with apparently two different techniques. In my Cobra, I have to use the inside ball of my right foot on the brake pedal and then roll my ankle right to blip the throttle. This is very easy and intuitive for me. In the Viper and especially when wearing my Alpine Star racing shoes I feel like the distance between the brake pedal and accelerator pedal are too far apart for that technique so I have been trying to work on a more traditional heel/toe technique. I feel like I'm sloppy half the time and not getting my foot in the proper position on the brake pedal where I can blip the throttle with my heel.

Wonder if this Ipsco extension would solve my problem and allow me to use the technique which is most comfortable. I'm 6'2" with long legs and size 11 shoes (you would think my big feet would have no issue, but apparently they aren't wide enough). Thoughts?

Rich Wesorick
08-09-2020, 06:26 AM
I put one of these on my Gen V, and it works like a dream!
http://www.xineering.com/dbw.html

Jeff Stout at Complete Performance Motorsports is the guy to call about this.

TA Two Oh
08-09-2020, 10:57 AM
I hear you. I'm roughly your size, ran an advanced driving school for over fifteen years, am a PCA instructor and former Chief Instructor. I have taught many hundreds of people how to heel and toe and consider myself pretty good at it. But with certain footwear, I find it a bit challenging to heel and toe perfectly in my Gen V - specifically, with some racing shoes with very narrow soles. I just don't have 100% confidence that my foot won't slide a bit off the brake pedal causing some pressure reduction. A scary thought!
I ended up taking note of which of my shoes work well and which don't. I now have some that I use when driving the Viper and a bunch that I don't. The ones that work well all have a bit wider sole. No issues whatsoever now.

ViperNC
08-09-2020, 12:25 PM
I hear you. I'm roughly your size, ran an advanced driving school for over fifteen years, am a PCA instructor and former Chief Instructor. I have taught many hundreds of people how to heel and toe and consider myself pretty good at it. But with certain footwear, I find it a bit challenging to heel and toe perfectly in my Gen V - specifically, with some racing shoes with very narrow soles. I just don't have 100% confidence that my foot won't slide a bit off the brake pedal causing some pressure reduction. A scary thought!
I ended up taking note of which of my shoes work well and which don't. I now have some that I use when driving the Viper and a bunch that I don't. The ones that work well all have a bit wider sole. No issues whatsoever now.

Its funny you mention the shoes as I've been thinking about that. When I drive the Cobra, I don't use my Alpinestars anymore because they can actually fit between the brake and accelerator pedals (ask me how I found that out). I drive that car with a pair of Nike Air shoes because they are wide. In the Viper, I can't use my left Nike because it keeps making contact with the brake pedal every time I depress the clutch pedal. I guess I could wear Alpinestar left and Nike right... and look like a clown. I guess that is better than looking like the idiot who missed the brake zone on track. Nonetheless, I thought I would try this accelerator extension to see if it brings the pedal where I would need to use the preferred technique.

BTW - Which shoes did you go with that worked in the Viper?

str5010
08-09-2020, 10:26 PM
I left foot brake in my 08 ACR in any corner that doesn't require a gear downchange. Started doing it before I ever got my license playing PC race games. It just seems natural at this point such that right foot braking feels slow getting back to throttle. I found the pedal box in the Gen III+ Vipers to be really nice, the throttle pedal extension only made it more comfortable.

TA Two Oh
08-10-2020, 09:22 AM
BTW - Which shoes did you go with that worked in the Viper?

I tried many different shoes over the years and these worked best for me. Embarrassingly, they are just casual shoes I bought at a Factory Outlet store, not actual driving shoes. They’re obviously not flameproof, but they work perfectly for me. The sole is thin, giving great feedback, and firm enough to not distort (twist tortionally) when heeling and toeing. And for me, the sole is exactly the correct width to safely cover both pedals when I need that, but narrow enough to stay clear of nearby pedals when I only press on one. And the sole is firm, grippy and perfectly flat so I never worry about slipping off the brake pedal. My shoes are old, but perhaps you could find something similar?4479344794

camarochevy1970
08-10-2020, 09:57 AM
I guess I could wear Alpinestar left and Nike right... and look like a clown.

If you told me wearing a slice of bologna on my forehead made me a better/faster driver I would do it. I wouldn't even think twice about mismatched shoes if it worked

Racingswh
08-10-2020, 11:38 AM
I left foot brake in my 08 ACR in any corner that doesn't require a gear downchange. Started doing it before I ever got my license playing PC race games. It just seems natural at this point such that right foot braking feels slow getting back to throttle. I found the pedal box in the Gen III+ Vipers to be really nice, the throttle pedal extension only made it more comfortable.

You have it down. I refer to you when I am talking to someone about good footwork when driving a Viper. That lap at WG is indicative of good footwork as well. Quickest Gen IV ACR (excluding the ACR-X) lap I have seen there. I hope to get better at H&T as well as LFB in the Viper.

Bryan Savage
08-10-2020, 12:58 PM
I wear a size 13 shoe. I brake with my big toe side of right root and dip the pinky side to rev. Not sure why a pedal extension is necessary (unless you have small feet), as if you're deep in the brakes, the pedal level is much more even.

I can also do it while wearing flip flops. Autographs are $3.

str5010
08-10-2020, 02:02 PM
You have it down. I refer to you when I am talking to someone about good footwork when driving a Viper. That lap at WG is indicative of good footwork as well. Quickest Gen IV ACR (excluding the ACR-X) lap I have seen there. I hope to get better at H&T as well as LFB in the Viper.

Thank you Steve! Always room for improvement on my end and hoping to get another crack at the Glen some time this year. Somebody in that car with courage could go sub 59 I think!

ViperNC
08-10-2020, 02:23 PM
Thanks for the feedback. I went ahead and picked up the extension and will try it. It's a whopping $30 so we'll see if it makes any difference.

TA Two Oh
12-07-2020, 03:35 PM
BTW - Which shoes did you go with that worked in the Viper?

I tried many different shoes over the years and these worked best for me. Embarrassingly, they are just casual shoes I bought at a Factory Outlet store, not actual driving shoes. They’re obviously not flameproof, but they work perfectly for me. The sole is thin, giving great feedback, and firm enough to not distort (twist tortionally) when heeling and toeing. And for me, the sole is exactly the correct width to safely cover both pedals when I need that, but narrow enough to stay clear of nearby pedals when I only press on one. And the sole is firm, grippy and perfectly flat so I never worry about slipping off the brake pedal. My shoes are old, but perhaps you could find something similar?4479344794

Viper NC... I just spotted these driving shoes. I'll order a pair since my old one's are worn out and these look very similar to what I've been using. NOT fireproof, but good enough for the lap times I'm running these days.

https://store.windingroad.com/product/4902?filter=5star

TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM
12-08-2020, 10:23 AM
Little bit of irony. Bob Bondurant never really used the heel toe method. He said he could never get the hang of it.

Pappy
12-08-2020, 10:54 AM
I've got steel pins in my right ankle from an old football injury - makes it hard to roll my foot over on the throttle. Nothing a good sequential and programmed rev matching can't fix. Hehe

Pappy

Arizona Vipers
12-08-2020, 01:37 PM
I don't heel and toe.

Pappy
12-08-2020, 04:38 PM
I don't heel and toe.

If you stay in third gear and let massive torque handle the slow stuff and the rev limiter take care of the top end, you don't need to heel/toe. LOL

ViperNC
12-09-2020, 07:25 AM
Viper NC... I just spotted these driving shoes. I'll order a pair since my old one's are worn out and these look very similar to what I've been using. NOT fireproof, but good enough for the lap times I'm running these days. https://store.windingroad.com/product/4902?filter=5star

I wound up using my Alpinestars for the track days. With the acceleration pedal extension from Ipsco, heel/toe was definitely easier.


I've got steel pins in my right ankle from an old football injury - makes it hard to roll my foot over on the throttle. Nothing a good sequential and programmed rev matching can't fix. Hehe

Pappy

Yeah. I was on track with a lot of different modern cars and/or race cars that had the sequential or dual clutch paddle shift and then there was me... banging through the gears and trying to keep up. Although my lap times were good (it was mainly due to the HP of the Viper and making up time on the straights) I can't say they were great compared to the guys that don't have to use the clutch pedal.

HUBBELL RACING
12-09-2020, 11:19 AM
Yes, but the brake pedal is so small I have to brake w my big toe which is weird. I’m only a size 11, always wear race shoes on track.

Larryskillzs
12-10-2020, 09:58 AM
I can heel toe in my tt5 s2000 with a pedal extended with ease. Same with my street s2000.

In the Viper it's impossible for me to nail it. I'm always early on my blip and I can't program my brain how to slow the blip down.

On the street it's also extra impossible for reasons also mentioned. On track I'm better but it's a sloppy heel toe. Drives me crazy.

I might buy that extender and see if it helps.

TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM
12-10-2020, 10:39 AM
TKO hot rodded street driven 5th gen viper ACR. Driver Memo Gidley doing old school heel toe with H pattern trans VS TKO World challenge Porsche GT3R with paddle shift, TC, ABS, DATA, lots of aero all the tech you could want and then some. Viper and Porsche duked it out for 2 full track days......the viper held its own and set a track record in the process. Heel toe can still be competitive against technology

https://www.facebook.com/tko.motorsportsteam.7/videos/145518646716771

Simms
12-10-2020, 12:39 PM
I can do it much better in my comp coupe than my Gen V.

Lawineer
03-01-2021, 08:37 AM
If you're trying to do it on the street it can be difficult. The brake pedal is up too high in many cases and the brake pressure required to slow the car normally isn't enough. Need real brake pressure to get the brake pedal even with the accelerator which makes it much easier.

This. Heel toe is harder on the street than track. If you're only using slight brake pressure, like you do on the street, you probably don't have to downshift.

Also, you should ABSOLUTELY keep the ball of your foot CENTERED on the brake. You do not risk having only half your foot on half the brake pedal or something like that. Doing so is extremely dangerous If your foot slips off, it's going under the brake and it's going to take a good second to get out and back on the brake. Which means you're, if you're lucky, going straight off the track and if unlucky, into the car and/or wall in front of you.
If you miss something, it should be the gas. Worst case, you didn't rev match.

With that said, I'm going to get autoblip https://www.auto-blip.com/product/auto-blip/
I don't feel any need to pound my chest and talk about how I can heel toe. I know I can. It takes about 2 sessions of practice to get it pretty easily. It's really nothing to be proud of. It's not that big of an accomplishment.

However, revmatch in my Grand Sport has absolutely saved me from a "money shot" shift or two. When I was shifting, the engine went crazy and bounced off the rev limiter, trying to "match" to first gear instead of third. You realize it pretty quick and just keep the clutch in and shift again. It actually starts "matching" before you fully get into gear so you can just adjust.
Plus, it adds a ton of life to your clutch since you're shifting perfectly to match RPM. there's no 200-400rpm difference the clutch needs to burn/absorb via fully engaged, full pressure slipping.

steve911
03-01-2021, 08:57 AM
I can do it much better in my comp coupe than my Gen V.

I totally agree. There is a very different (in my opinion) pedal height difference between my Comp Coupe and my Gen V.