Fuel Tank Leanking on GTS

[Luisv]

So I've gotten a fuel leak on my 2002 GTS. It's a leak at the fuel neck where the hose from the filler gets attached. It happened back in June/July. It seems to be a common issue that I did not find out about until after I got the leak. For those that are not aware of the "issue": The filler neck on the tank is pressed into the plastic tank on the car. That neck on 2001 & 2002 seems to break loose ever so slightly so as to create a very slow seeping type of leak only when the fuel is above 3/4 of a tank. It seems not to be an issue with earlier models. 2001 & 2002 models seem to have the issue.

So an update to let you all know what I've been dealing with since July.

So I was able to locate a two part putty epoxy made for use on plastic/poly tanks. Basically two putties you knead together and then apply to the tank. What I did was a bit hard to get to without pulling the tank so I did not photograph anything. Frankly not too much time to do so anyway.

The cliff note version.

- Pulled the passenger side rear and removed the fasteners on the rear side of the wheel well plastic. It was enough to move the panel out of the way to reach up and see the fuel neck.
- I cleaned the area around the filler neck very well. I removed all the residual fuel that had dripped down the side of the tank.
- I scuffed the area around the neck with 40 grit sandpaper to roughen the surface about 1" around the neck at the tank.
- I kneaded the epoxy and then applied it around the neck of the tank. I made certain to "stuff" it in very well. Allowed it to cure 24 hours.
- I came back around the outside of the epoxy fix with a layer of RTV (fuel resistant) smeared over the entire epoxy fix on the tank and up around the neck as well. Let that cure 24 hours.
- Reinstalled everything.

This was done in late July and solved the problem. No more leaks was able to fill the tank completely and took it on a 3,000 mile mountain road trip in October. Everything was flawless.

Right after the New Year I began to smell fuel faintly again. At first I though it was my paranoia since I stick my head in the wheel well before I drive the car each time since I made the fix. Unfortunately, it has gotten worse and I have already seen the fuel on the frame again. Essentially the fix lasted about 5 months. There is far less fuel than there was originally, but there is fuel there.

These are now the plans... I will be going through the work and photographing everything so that everybody gets the "how-to" later. I can't seem to find photos anywhere of the fix process. That's going to change.

- Done a bit of reading in the Service Manual and getting under the car and see that dropping the rear is in face not an option. I've asked the question and have been told that. Additionally, getting the car on a lift, we've seen the tank spans wider than the rails not permitting the removal from below. You have to deal with the panel cut in the trunk.
- Found out that the RT/10's already have the panel in place. They would not need to cut. Also found that, as far as I can tell, the panel is the same as what I would buy for the Coupe. Part number is the same on the part from an RT/10 as it is for the panel on the GTS.
- Given that, I will look for the RT/10 panel at one of the Viper parts guys. I've dealt a few times with X2 already so I'll try them first.
- Once I have that, I will pull the tank. I will then make up the drawings for the tank and I will quote what it will cost to make the tank out of stainless or aluminum. I have a tank builder that just made a custom tank for me on another project car.
- If the cost is not insane, I will go that route, because it will be a one time fix and I will never have to deal with the issue again. Ever.
- If the cost is crazy compared to a used tank, then I will go that route. Logic here is that once the access panel is done, if the tank needs a swap again, it's not going to be as big a problem.

I will likely do all the work myself. Cutting into the body is not really what I am worried about. I'm in the midst of a body off restoration on a C3 Corvette, a panel is a piece of cake! It's just a time consuming chore and the car will be out for about a month.

Anyways.... I will keep you all posted and keep an eye out for the how-to as I'll document it all. I've not been able to find anything on the web about the process so hopefully this will help others in the future.

[Luisv]

So to keep it separate... I do have a couple of questions.

Can anybody confirm if I am right on the rear access panel? Is the GTS fuel tank access panel and RT/10 panel the same? As far as I could find... it is... but somebody else may have a confirmation or contradiction.

Second and more critical. If the aluminum tank is too costly (they are working up the cost estimate today or tomorrow), I would have to replace with a used tank. If so... I may opt to go with a tank from a 1999 or 2000 Viper to avoid a new leak. The question I have is.... Is the 2002 version of the tank different than the 1999/2000 fuel tank? If so, how? Can I modify to make it work?

[A2008]

I would think your best option would be to call X2 Builders and have them lay out the two tanks side by side. This would then give you your answer. They could probably do the same for you on the access panels.

[GhostStalker27]

Same issue with my 99. I'm going to see Chuck T. this saturday. I'll see what he says and get back to you

[Luisv]

I would think your best option would be to call X2 Builders and have them lay out the two tanks side by side. This would then give you your answer. They could probably do the same for you on the access panels.

Did not think of that. Great idea. I'll give them a call and see if we could do that.


Same issue with my 99. I'm going to see Chuck T. this saturday. I'll see what he says and get back to you

That sucks! So it's not just a 2001/2002 issue. Is your leak at the neck as well?

[GhostStalker27]

That sucks! So it's not just a 2001/2002 issue. Is your leak at the neck as well?

I think so, because like you it's only when the tank is above 3/4 full

[ViperGTS]

I had/have 3 Gen-2s so far, a 1999, two 2002's...no leak here and I dont be shy to drive the shit out of the cars...cant be common since I did not hear of this problem, but may be Chuck or Wilhelm will chime in and tell us.

[GhostStalker27]

I had/have 3 Gen-2s so far, a 1999, two 2002's...no leak here and I dont be shy to drive the shit out of the cars...cant be common since I did not hear of this problem, but may be Chuck or Wilhelm will chime in and tell us.

I talked to Chuck about it, he said it's most likely the vents in back of the car aren't functioning properly in combination of driving with the windows down. But when I told him that it's only when the tank is 3/4 or more full -he thought it's probably the filler neck - i believe but I'll let him speak for himself. I'm also going to see him this Saturday..will find out more.

It's not all that uncommon http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/667319-Gen-II-GTS-Fuel-Tank-Issue/page2

[ViperGTS]

IF it is just fuel smell inside it might be the vents...yes. That is a common issue.

[GhostStalker27]

IF it is just fuel smell inside it might be the vents...yes. That is a common issue.

Like Luisv it's only on a 3/4 + tank - So if it was just the vents wouldn't it be all the time? or no? Either way I'll know more after Chuck takes a gander, and report back

[Luisv]

In my case there is no doubt it's the filler neck. I've seen the leak and it drips down onto the passenger side lower frame rail behind where the lower suspension arm attaches.

[Michael]

Same thing happened to me last year. Red/white 2002 GTS. Filler neck cracked. I learned that SRT went with a different company (low bidder) for production of the fuel tanks in 2001 and 2002.
I initially attempted to have an aluminum fuel cell manufactured as a replacement. However, due to blueprint costs (no one has made one for Gen II Vipers, yet); the cost was prohibitive.
I opted to acquire a used one, which I requested be from an earlier production Gen II. No proof however was ever received of the fuel tank actually being from an earlier Viper, and quite frankly, after looking at the one that failed and the one that was used as a replacement, they looked identical. Had to order the panel for the rear, which came with a template for cutting out the back. As already mentioned, RT-10s already have this done. Don't know why the GTS also did not already have this done. It cost quite a bit of money, that an RT-10 owner would not have had to fork out. Gas only leaked when the car was running. When parked, it didn't leak. Definitely a fire hazard possibility, and should be corrected as soon as feasibly possible. I'm hopeful this does not occur again. But I have to say, the whole affair really soured me for a timeon the Viper and experience of owning one, to the point I almost sold it after it was repaired. I did get over it. I'm still not one bit happy about it, and due to how dangerous it can be, feel SRT should be issuing a recall and repairing these tanks at their cost. Just my honest opinion. I posted about this on the other site, inquiring about prior similar incidents, and about 6 people - all 2001/2002 Gen II owners responded. Given how many responded vs. how many use the site, I suspect this is actually a more frequent occurrence than SRT is willing to acknowledge. I mean think about it - how often does this happen on other cars? Never. And on an $85,000.00 (new) car? Really? Not a happy camper.

[Luisv]

The fact this happens is not a problem. I see it as a quirk of the car. Personally, I won't get bothered with the fuel tank issue to the point that it'll outweigh the pleasure of driving the car. Almost every performance car I've ever had has had some quirk.

What does bug me is the fact that parts are not being made any more for the car. For example, the fuel tank. No longer made. You'd figure if there was an issue then make a new part to correct it. The access panel. Not available new. There are a few other things I needed/wanted but could not get.... E-Brake handle, valve covers, fuel pump, etc. I understand the low production numbers, but there should be some things that they should make.

As for the aluminum tanks plans... I'll get those done... I'm getting a rough estimate now. If it's not insane, I'll consider it. In any event, I'll get the exact measurements when the tank is out.

[Luisv]

OK... so a bit further on the saga....

I was able to locate both the used tank and the rear access/closeout panel. I got them both for a very reasonable price so I went ahead and got the tank even though I will be looking into the aluminum tank as well. As soon as I get the two parts, I will check whether or not the rear closeout panel is a direct swap from the RT/10. Even since I will likely be going with a replacement plastic tank, I will still take precise measurements and having the welder design the tank and give me a quote. This way, I have the details for myself in case something else happens and/or to share for another. Stay tuned on that...

Second, since I will be pulling the tank, I figured it would be a good time to replace the fuel lines. More as a preventive measure than anything else. Because of the recent "ethanol" mindset in the great state of Florida and USA (don't get me started on that crap) I'll be putting in PTFE lines. Essentially, to not worry about degrading lines a few years down the road. I was planning on going with Earl's Speed-Flex lines. I used it on a project I am working on and know it's real nice. You can check it out here: http://holley.com/610006ERL.asp

Because of the lines, I have to use AN fittings. In order to do this, I have to convert to the AN fittings from the quick disconnect on the rigid line. I rather do this than to cut the line to flare it. I do have the tools (cutter and flaring tool) to do it, but I rather not alter the stock line. So to get to the AN fitting I was planning on this:

http://holley.com/AT991966ERL.asp

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s363/luisv001/Misc%20Stuff/earl_QD_fitting_zpsa92b18b6.jpg

So, at this point I did have a couple of questions...

Does anyone know (from having swapped a pump, for example) what the fuel supply hose connection is to the tank/pump? In other words, is it a quick connect fitting like on the front at the rigid fuel line where it goes to the fuel rail? I assume so... but just want to be certain.

If so... does anybody know if the connection is a 5/16" quick connect or a 3/8" quick connect? I am guessing it should be 3/8 but I do need to confirm... I cannot see the info anywhere is the Service Manual. It mentions the quick connects, but not the size.

[Luisv]

A bit more on the story. Learned a few new things so I'll put it up...

Originally my plan was to replace the flexible lines in the rear with PTFE (Teflon lined) fuel lines, going to AN fittings etc. I was planning this to avoid problems in the future with ethanol blends, etc. In my search to determine what connectors I would need to upgrade, I found that there are only two rubber lines in fuel plumbing of the Gen 2 Vipers. As far as I could tell, the lines connecting to the tank are all rigid plastic lines. I then posed the question to a few very trusted techs and they have all told me that the hard plastic lines are not a problem with ethanol and current additives. The ethanol "sensitive" lines are the rubber lines. As far as I could find there are only two rubber lines in the fuel plumbing of the Viper. One is a 12" piece between the external fuel filter (outside the tank, attached to the frame rail) and the hard steel line running to the front of the car. This line is a quick disconnect on the filter, but it is crimped onto the hard line. The second rubber line is the line from the hard steel line to the fuel rail incorporated into the intake manifold.

Since everything going to the tank itself is rigid plastic line (don't know the material to give you a specific name), I have decided to not bother with the swap of the fittings and lines there. The two rubber lines I mentioned above are accessible and I can make the swaps later on down the road. The one from the fuel filter to the hard line will require a conversion to AN fittings since I will be removing the line that is crimped on. Not an issue, but I will have to deal with it. Bottom line, however, for the purposes of replacing the tank, I won't be replacing any plumbing.

Tank and panel are on the way and I should be getting it Wednesday. Great news. I should have a new tank in by Saturday night! I'll be sure to photograph the crap out of the process so you all have a reference.

On a separate note, I will still be tanking the precise measurements of the stock tank and getting a CAD drawing of the tank out to the tank builder. I'll let you all know the outcome of that. I'll put in the stock tank now, but I am looking at that as potentially a temporary fix. I figure if one failed, the second may do so as well in the future. I hope I am wrong, but if I am not, I'll have the tank design ready to go and I'll get it made in aluminum.

Stay tuned...

[Luisv]

OK....DONE! I replaced the tank. Thankfully, it went relatively easily. Time consuming... but not difficult.

It's a long one... but I did a write up on it. Hopefully, it'll help somebody.

Here's the link....

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/2043-Fuel-Tank-Replacement-on-a-Gen-2-GTS?p=30672&posted=1#post30672

[A2008]

What a great write up!! I hope I never have to worry about doing this procedure, but if I do, I know where to come and look! I appreciate you taking the time and pictures to do this for other people who will need this in the future. It also may give someone a good idea to start making these replacement panels as eventually all the R/T 10's panels will be gone! SO the new tank you got, I am guessing it was used. Does this newer tank have the same chance of cracking in the same place as your old one??

[Luisv]

What a great write up!! I hope I never have to worry about doing this procedure, but if I do, I know where to come and look! I appreciate you taking the time and pictures to do this for other people who will need this in the future. It also may give someone a good idea to start making these replacement panels as eventually all the R/T 10's panels will be gone! SO the new tank you got, I am guessing it was used. Does this newer tank have the same chance of cracking in the same place as your old one??

Technically... yes. It's out of a low mileage 2002. The problem/question is that the fuel neck leaks. We don't know why though. If it's a bad batch of tanks.... a bad batch of adhesive.... the adhesive was not ethanol compatible... stress when install... bad plastic.... you can go on forever.

Bottom line though... with the panel already cut and in there, replacing the tank again will be a snap. If I ever need to... I will have the tank drawings already done (working on those now) to make an aluminum version and be done with it... I'm hoping that it does not go there, but if it does... I'm ready.