Underdrive pulley question gen 3 & 4

[FLATOUT]

Hey guys I have a question, I know of at least one local gen 4 car that ran an under drive pulley.

My question is, is the gen 4 pulley pulley any different or is it the same one from the gen 3's?

Thanks for your help.

Andy

[345s-bspinnin]

Now that you have received confirmation that the pulleys are interchangeable, here are a few facts/pics of my install.

Size:
-OEM: 5.72"
- UD: 4.61"

Weight:
-OEM: 2.2 lbs
-UD: 1.0 lbs

Belt Replacement: Mopar P4510224

Remember that you don't have to remove the crankbolt to install this pulley. Its just 6 bolts that come with the kit.

Pics:

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_233602_zpsee8a75eb.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_233602_zpsee8a75eb.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_233609_zps77cbca64.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_233609_zps77cbca64.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_233703_zps792807b5.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_233703_zps792807b5.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_233745_zps7cf55e48.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_233745_zps7cf55e48.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_233816_zpse5fdc171.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_233816_zpse5fdc171.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/UDPulley_zps87171936.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/UDPulley_zps87171936.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_235634_zps781553bb.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_235634_zps781553bb.jpg.html)

[Getnlwr]

I asked this question on the "other" forum. I was told straight up they are different pulleys and are not interchangeable. Was this confirmed otherwise? If it was, this will be next on the list.

[FLATOUT]

I asked this question on the "other" forum. I was told straight up they are different pulleys and are not interchangeable. Was this confirmed otherwise? If it was, this will be next on the list.

I spoke with Arrow today and they told me the one from the comp coupes was the same one used the X's. I have one of the comp coupe versions coming but I will go out to the garage and look again to verify. I also spoke to Tom Francis at Viper Race Headquarters and he said the same thing.

[FLATOUT]

I just looked at my 08 and it appears to be the same setup as from the comp coupe. I know of another local gen IV car that ran one and he bought it from Tom Francis from an ACRX. If it doesn't fit I will let you guys know.

[Getnlwr]

Cool! If it is the same as the Gen 3, I'm stoked.

[ACRucrazy]

I asked the same question on the other forum a while back, I recall something about the computer. Always researched and never really found one for the IV. Would be cool if it's an option..

[FLATOUT]

I'll let you guys know if there is any issue but if they ran them on the X's I would think they should work on the street cars with a Mopar ECU.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Are these pulleys available from Arrow or where can I learn more about them? What are the expected gains and are there any negative side effects?

[FLATOUT]

Same benefits and effects that they had on the gen 3's, roughly 10rwhp, less rotating mass. I should have it in a couple days and I'll see if it bolts up. It's the mopar unit, from the comp coupes.

[ACRucrazy]

Dyno?

[FLATOUT]

Dyno?

I'll make a pull with it when I get the new headers and cat back installed.

[ACRucrazy]

I should move to Texas. All these Viper owners down there and mine sits in the garage for 6 months of the year.

[FLATOUT]

I should move to Texas. All these Viper owners down there and mine sits in the garage for 6 months of the year.

Major reason why I moved back ;)

[slowhatch]

Here are some dyno numbers, before/after on a UD pulley on a gen 3 coupe that i found on the other forum;


My 06 Viper has the following mods: 3.55 gears, k+n cai, and a sct tune. I was debating if it would be worth purchasing and underdrive crank pulley. Research on this forum indicated most people were saying it would offer zero to a few hp at most and was probably not worth the time or effort. With that assumption and a low budget I thought I would try it anyway. Besides it kind of looks pretty. (justification bling-bling).

My results:

Baseline mods:
3.55 gears
SCT tuned (canned) by Todd A&C performance thanks.
k+n cai
441 hp and 468 ft lb's of torque.

Addition of UDP only with above mods: 451 hp and 484 ft lb's torque.

For what its worth I looked at the corrections factor and the atmospheric conditions from the first time I dynoed and found the conditions were very similiar (1.19). Some of you guys will find my numbers low. However, I live at a mile high location and the numbers appear to read lower than what i've seen throughout this forum. Viper's with full exhausts on this dyno have only resulted in the high 450 to 460 range.

http://forums.viperclub.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18962&d=1329279381

[FLATOUT]

Cool so roughly 10rwhp with a little more torque. Thats a good chunk per dollar spent on this mod.

[ACRucrazy]

Are we going to see several 650 rwhp Gen IVs in 2014? :t89039:

[FLATOUT]

Are we going to see several 650 rwhp Gen IVs in 2014? :t89039:

Maybe if guys start getting some heads ported.

[Troublemaker]

Maybe if guys start getting some heads ported.

I know the stock heads have great cfm flow numbers and read there isn't a lot to be gained from porting, 20-30hp doesn't seam out of reach, but where does the flow become limited by the cam?

[FLATOUT]

I know the stock heads have great cfm flow numbers and read there isn't a lot to be gained from porting, 20-30hp doesn't seam out of reach, but where does the flow become limited by the cam?

Guys have already seen gains from porting them, not exactly sure how much but I would say 20rwhp off the top of my head. I was just saying if people are wanting to get to 650 it would take that.

There are also some new big primary header designs hitting the market that might help make a difference. I have a new set coming shortly and will see what it makes, along with a 3 1/2 inch catback. 650 maybe out of reach thats ACRUCrazy's number not mine :D

[The_Greg]

Are there known concerns about future durability of the system with this component? I don't think under-driving an alternator is harmful but how about any pumps that are also belt driven? The oil pump or the water pump?

I have seen where UD pulleys have caused durability issues, but this was mostly on engines that integrated the harmonic balancer into the pulley.

[Black Pearl]

Where did you buy them and what was the cost?


Now that you have received confirmation that the pulleys are interchangeable, here are a few facts/pics of my install.

Size:
-OEM: 5.72"
- UD: 4.61"

Weight:
-OEM: 2.2 lbs
-UD: 1.0 lbs

Belt Replacement: Mopar P4510224

Remember that you don't have to remove the crankbolt to install this pulley. Its just 6 bolts that come with the kit.

Pics:

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_233602_zpsee8a75eb.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_233602_zpsee8a75eb.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_233609_zps77cbca64.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_233609_zps77cbca64.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_233703_zps792807b5.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_233703_zps792807b5.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_233745_zps7cf55e48.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_233745_zps7cf55e48.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_233816_zpse5fdc171.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_233816_zpse5fdc171.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/UDPulley_zps87171936.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/UDPulley_zps87171936.jpg.html)

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424/345s-bspinnin/20120218_235634_zps781553bb.jpg (http://s1227.photobucket.com/user/345s-bspinnin/media/20120218_235634_zps781553bb.jpg.html)

[ACRucrazy]

There are also some new big primary header designs hitting the market that might help make a difference. I have a new set coming shortly and will see what it makes, along with a 3 1/2 inch catback. 650 maybe out of reach thats ACRUCrazy's number not mine :D

Guess we will see :) I too have some big primary headers on order. Let's see how close we can come without porting the heads ;)

[FLATOUT]

Are there known concerns about future durability of the system with this component? I don't think under-driving an alternator is harmful but how about any pumps that are also belt driven? The oil pump or the water pump?

I have seen where UD pulleys have caused durability issues, but this was mostly on engines that integrated the harmonic balancer into the pulley.


Well they were designed for the comp coupes, and then run on the ACRX's so I figured if it was good enough for them it was good enough for mine. That might be flawed logic but I'm not putting 100K miles on my car so that's not really a major concern of mine.

[ACRucrazy]

I'm not putting 100K miles on my car

And why the hell not?! ;)

[FLATOUT]

And why the hell not?! ;)

Good question :D

[steve911]

Whats the part number and the cost for the comp coupe pulley?

[FLATOUT]

P4510177 Underdrive Crank Pulley (2003–05 Viper SRT10) $331.00

Steve just pulled that off a randon site.

[IndyRon]

Is it essentially the same as this one? Any changes to the Gen IV that would keep this from working? I'm willing to be the guinea pig if no one knows for sure.

http://shop.jtsvp.com/product.sc?productId=665&categoryId=206

[Getnlwr]

Yes, as so far stated the one from Tony and JTSVP would fit, as well as the one from Jon B at parts rack.

[Black Pearl]

$160 from JTSVP is a great price for the pulley, hardware and belt. If it will not work on the Gen IV, you can sell to someone with a Gen III.

[FLATOUT]

My only question is if these work why haven't Gen IV guys been running them? And if someone told you they would'nt work did they say why?

Should have mine by the weekend so I will get it on and report back.

[Revolution]

Great find in for more info, and some dyno results!

[slowhatch]

I've always worried about under-driving the accessories with these and creating problems at low rpm with the charging system, and maybe even the water pump. Also worried about changing the weight on the crank (isn't it counterbalanced with a set damper/crank pulley weight?).

[Getnlwr]

My only question is if these work why haven't Gen IV guys been running them? And if someone told you they would'nt work did they say why?

Should have mine by the weekend so I will get it on and report back.
Only reply I got was... "Totally different motor." Thread here...

Also makes me wonder if a paxton will fit with just a change on the intake to throttle body. Or ideally the JMB procharger kit works with some massaging.

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/669224-Underdrive-pulley-Gen-4.

[Steve M]

I've always worried about under-driving the accessories with these and creating problems at low rpm with the charging system, and maybe even the water pump. Also worried about changing the weight on the crank (isn't it counterbalanced with a set damper/crank pulley weight?).

I'd highly doubt it...easy way to tell would be to see if the pulley was clocked/marked/keyed. I've never looked at mine that closely.

[Steve M]

Only reply I got was... "Totally different motor." Thread here...

Also makes me wonder if a paxton will fit with just a change on the intake to throttle body. Or ideally the JMB procharger kit works with some massaging.

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/669224-Underdrive-pulley-Gen-4.

Fitting a Paxton wouldn't be a huge hurdle...it's always been a calibration issue since no one (until very recently) has been able to hack the PCM. Stand alone systems have just been too pricey.

Although I'm not sure the Venom controller would be able to support any decent amount of boost unless you could alter the MAP calibration to accept a 2-bar sensor.

[Getnlwr]

Time will tell. Was told by someone even 4PSI on the stock motor could be a good 800+hp at the crank.

[Troublemaker]

Time will tell. Was told by someone even 4PSI on the stock motor could be a good 800+hp at the crank.

That's amazing, you would think with the parasitic draw of the blower that the number wouldn't increase that much. I think these cars have a lot of untapped potential if that is accurate.

[Revolution]

Most problems I've seen with UR pulleys are in applications it replaces the balancer itself, which isn't the case in this application.

[FLATOUT]

Well mine arrived so I'll test fit soon

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Well mine arrived so I'll test fit soon

Great keep us updated and thanks for testing it!

[Viper Girl]

I have a black billet underdrive pulley that has been sitting in a box in my garage. It is the lightweight one that Parts Rack sells for $249.

Just listed it in the classifieds if anyone is interested.

[FLATOUT]

Got the pulley on tonight no problem, but the belt was being less than cooperative, I will tackle that tomorrow.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/image_zpsb5f3450f.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/image_zpsb5f3450f.jpg.html)

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/image_zpsf3212b41.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/image_zpsf3212b41.jpg.html)


http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/image_zps96b63bf1.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/image_zps96b63bf1.jpg.html)


http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/image_zps96b63bf1.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/image_zps96b63bf1.jpg.html)


http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/image_zpsd592ee14.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/image_zpsd592ee14.jpg.html)

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n133/ZOSICK/image_zps1ebca185.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/ZOSICK/media/image_zps1ebca185.jpg.html)

[ACRucrazy]

Good stuff. I ordered one of those JTSVP pullies last night. I am going to have a pile of crap to install this spring.

[FLATOUT]

Good stuff. I ordered one of those JTSVP pullies last night. I am going to have a pile of crap to install this spring.

Lol my new headers and catback shipped today ;). You and me both. Move to Texas so you can drive that thing now :D

[ACRucrazy]

Lol my new headers and catback shipped today ;).

:monkeyleft:

[Viper Girl]

Is it essentially the same as this one? Any changes to the Gen IV that would keep this from working? I'm willing to be the guinea pig if no one knows for sure.

http://shop.jtsvp.com/product.sc?productId=665&categoryId=206

The pulley in the link doesn't say T6061 T6... Hate to quote Wiki, but there seems to be at least 3 different T6061 aluminiums. I would check to see what this pulley is made from.

Mechanical properties[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=6061_aluminium_alloy&action=edit&section=3)]The mechanical properties of 6061 depend greatly on the temper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_(metallurgy)), or heat treatment, of the material.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminium_alloy#cite_note-ALCOA-2)Young's Modulus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young%27s_Modulus) is 10×106 psi (69 GPa) regardless of temper.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminium_alloy#cite_note-3)
6061-O[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=6061_aluminium_alloy&action=edit&section=4)]Annealed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy)) 6061 (6061-O temper) has maximum tensile strength (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensile_strength) no more than 18,000 psi (125 MPa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megapascal)), and maximum yield strength (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_strength) no more than 8,000 psi (55 MPa). The material has elongation (stretch before ultimate failure) of 25–30%.
6061-T4[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=6061_aluminium_alloy&action=edit&section=5)]T4 temper 6061 has an ultimate tensile strength (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_tensile_strength) of at least 30,000 psi (207 MPa) and yield strength of at least 16,000 psi (110 MPa). It has elongation of 16%.
6061-T6[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=6061_aluminium_alloy&action=edit&section=6)]T6 temper 6061 has an ultimate tensile strength of at least 42,000 psi (300 MPa) and yield strength of at least 35,000 psi (241 MPa). More typical values are 45,000 psi (310 MPa) and 40,000 psi (275 MPa), respectively.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminium_alloy#cite_note-4) In thicknesses of 0.250 inch (6.35 mm) or less, it has elongation of 8% or more; in thicker sections, it has elongation of 10%. T651 temper has similar mechanical properties. The typical value for thermal conductivity for 6061-T6 at 80°C is around 152 W/m K. A material data sheet[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminium_alloy#cite_note-5) defines the fatigue limit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit) under cyclic load as 14,000 psi (100 MPa) for 500,000,000 completely reversed cycles using a standard RR Moore test machine and specimen. Note that aluminum does not exhibit a well defined "knee" on its S-n graph, so there is some debate as to how many cycles equates to "infinite life". Also note the actual value of fatigue limit for an application can be dramatically affected by the conventional de-rating factors of loading, gradient, and surface finish.

[Victxv10]

The pulley in the link doesn't say T6061 T6... Hate to quote Wiki, but there seems to be at least 3 different T6061 aluminiums. I would check to see what this pulley is made from.

I sent JTS an email asking if it was T6 and if they have heard any Gen4 owners using it. I'll let you know what they say.

[FLATOUT]

If anyone has a belt part number they use for Gen IV AC cars let me know. The one I pictured above is the one people use for the Gen III's. Everything should be the same but I'll give JTS a call today and see if they have a different part number they use on the Gen III's with AC.

Andy

[Revolution]

If anyone has a belt part number they use for Gen IV AC cars let me know. The one I pictured above is the one people use for the Gen III's. Everything should be the same but I'll give JTS a call today and see if they have a different part number they use on the Gen III's with AC.

Andy

Is the belt to long or too short?

[FLATOUT]

Is the belt to long or too short?

Seems a touch short, but it was really cold in the garage, it was a brand new belt, and is probably a few years old. It is the correct part number from Mopar for Gen 3's with AC. I have a shorter belt that is meant for the comp coupes without AC. If this belt was about an inch longer it would have been perfect.

I'll try to pop it on tonight. All of the pulleys are the same diameter on the Gen 3 and 4 correct?

[FrgMstr]

I have been watching this Flatout. If this works this a must do mod for sure. Keep us posted brother!

[FLATOUT]

I have been watching this Flatout. If this works this a must do mod for sure. Keep us posted brother!

Will do, let me get the proper belt worked out for you guys, and then buy away lol.

[Revolution]

Will do, let me get the proper belt worked out for you guys, and then buy away lol.

Do you have a good baseline to compare it to once the belt is on?

[FLATOUT]

Do you have a good baseline to compare it to once the belt is on?

I have more dyno's than I care to share lol.

[Revolution]

I have more dyno's than I care to share lol.

Perfect since a small increase like this is in the range of dyno to dyno variance.

[FLATOUT]

Perfect since a small increase like this is in the range of dyno to dyno variance.

I'll make a pull with it in a few weeks, on the same dyno SAE corrected that has done all of my pulls.

[Getnlwr]

I have ViperGirls Pulley/belt on the way. It'll give me something to do next weekend.

[Colo08]

The SRT Under drive pulley is available from Parts Rack or IPSCO 2887

[FLATOUT]

Guys I got mine on and fired up this morning, zero issue, and no check engine light after about a 4 mile drive. I talked to my buddy that ran it on his gen IV coupe and he ran the stock factory belt with his, for quite a few miles with no problems.

I slapped my stock serpentine belt on and it ran great.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Great, thanks. So will the stock belt work as a permanent solution or is it still too long?

So no issues whatsoever? Did your buddy have the Mopar ECU?

[Troublemaker]

How much does this under drive the accessories? I only ask as I have the 10% on my car now and have the 15% pulley also. This is on a Gen2, so it's a different animal, but I was just curious if anyone knew.

[Revolution]

How much does this under drive the accessories? I only ask as I have the 10% on my car now and have the 15% pulley also. This is on a Gen2, so it's a different animal, but I was just curious if anyone knew.

Didn't do the hard math but looking at the diameters he posted I'm assuming around 17-18%

[Getnlwr]

5.72 OE, and 4.61 UDP, puts the pulley at 80.59% of stock. Running an under drive of 19.41.

[Troublemaker]

5.72 OE, and 4.61 UDP, puts the pulley at 80.59% of stock. Running an under drive of 19.41.
Thanks

Revolution, heck of a guess.

[FLATOUT]

All I know is stock belt is working fine on my car. Put a few miles on it no problem today. Tomorrow will be a better test :D

[Getnlwr]

Mine showed up today, and shall be getting installed tonight.

Flatout, have you been able to put more miles on it without issues?

[FLATOUT]

Mine showed up today, and shall be getting installed tonight.

Flatout, have you been able to put more miles on it without issues?

Yes I put about 70 miles on the car last Saturday with wide open runs from 60-150+ and everything worked great! Zero issues. My car does have the Mopar ECU, and the other Gen IV I know that was running one also ran a Mopar ECU.

[Getnlwr]

Sounds good! Thanks Andy

[ACRucrazy]

Is it essentially the same as this one? Any changes to the Gen IV that would keep this from working? I'm willing to be the guinea pig if no one knows for sure.

http://shop.jtsvp.com/product.sc?productId=665&categoryId=206

Looks like he raised the price. $229

[Viper Girl]

I didn't read every post in here, but did anyone find out what quality of Alum that pulley which is now $229 is made of? T-6 or?

[FrgMstr]

I just sent JonB a note to ask if he could throw this one in on my current order.

http://www.viperpartsrack.com/underdrive-pulleys-gen3-gen4?keyword=pulley

[FLATOUT]

I have the Mopar one but the JTS Venom unit is on the way, I want to make sure that one will bolt up as well. I should have that one by the end of the week.

- - - Updated - - -

And on a side not $229 is cheap for a no hassle 10rwhp.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

So are there 4 versions? Mopar, JTS , IPSCO, PartsRack? Any differences?

FLATOUT, I really appreciate all of the posts and effort going into testing all of this and the other projects. Thanks.

[Colo08]

I didn't read every post in here, but did anyone find out what quality of Alum that pulley which is now $229 is made of? T-6 or?

All of IPSCO's Pulleys are made from 6061-T6, the SRT Under Drive pulley is $153.00.

[Viper Girl]

All of IPSCO's Pulleys are made from 6061-T6, the SRT Under Drive pulley is $153.00.
Does IPSCO make the one JTS is selling? I was just curious if the 6061 material used in that pulley was T6, because some of the guys here are buying that pulley...

[FLATOUT]

Does IPSCO make the one JTS is selling? I was just curious if the 6061 material used in that pulley was T6, because some of the guys here are buying that pulley...

I believe JTS is machining their own. I have the Ipsco towhooks on my car and the machining is excellent on those pieces as well.

[The_Greg]

IPSCO sells other pulleys (alternator, idler, PS, etc.), but fails to mention any comparison to stock. Is it worth trying to replace any of the other pulleys with aluminum versions for even more power increase?

[FLATOUT]

IPSCO sells other pulleys (alternator, idler, PS, etc.), but fails to mention any comparison to stock. Is it worth trying to replace any of the other pulleys with aluminum versions for even more power increase?

Not sure, it's rotating mass which is always nice to cut, but I'm not changing to many things out that haven't been tested on the ACRX cars. It seems to me like we have a tried and true failure analysis on some of these things and they are worth sticking with.

[The_Greg]

Not sure, it's rotating mass which is always nice to cut, but I'm not changing to many things out that haven't been tested on the ACRX cars. It seems to me like we have a tried and true failure analysis on some of these things and they are worth sticking with.

This is an excellent point that I am surprised when I forget it, since I am in the industry: OEM's spend literally tens of thousands of dollars testing individual components to meet specifications for performance and durability. Aftermarket companies, however, are not necessarily held to any testing, validation, or standards, and often sell products that have never even had durability testing performed!

I still wonder about the other pulleys but probably will just stick to the underdrive crank pulley.

[FLATOUT]

This is an excellent point that I am surprised when I forget it, since I am in the industry: OEM's spend literally tens of thousands of dollars testing individual components to meet specifications for performance and durability. Aftermarket companies, however, are not necessarily held to any testing, validation, or standards, and often sell products that have never even had durability testing performed!

I still wonder about the other pulleys but probably will just stick to the underdrive crank pulley.

Yeah things like exhausts, don't bother me. Some mods like valve train, pistons, and rods, I tend to take more time researching. I figure if parts worked on the X cars with all of the abuse they took in the series that my street car should be just fine.

[Getnlwr]

Well put.

i got my under drive pulley on last night. It fit correctly and the car started up and idled fine. I didn't get a chance to drive it. The bolts mine came with did not fit, and there may be a crank difference to worry about. The base of the pulley is substantially thicker on the aluminum one as well. The shorter belt would not fit at all! I reused the OEM belt and it fit fine. The tensioner is nearly bottomed out, it has maybe 10 deg of rotation on the belt. I've used The Good year Gatorback belts in the past, I might buy one for this after I figure out the size that I need. It appears 1.5" shorter than stock would be ideal. Anyone know the exact stock size?

[Voice of Reason]

Does anyone know if these would fit on the Gen V engine? I've put one on every car I've had and would do the same here if I knew it fit.

[Getnlwr]

It's a $150 experiment, and if it didn't fit, there will be plenty of Gen 4 guys who would buy it from you.

[Viper Girl]

From what Getnlwr said the belt is different from Gen III to Gen IV as well as the size of the bolts that hold on the pulley. Gen V could be the same as a Gen IV... But better ask a Viper Tech

[Viper Girl]

DOn't know if this helps, sorry I don't have a straight on shot of that pulley on the Gen V engine...http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l631/socalgirlz/file-4.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/socalgirlz/media/file-4.jpg.html)

[Getnlwr]

Diameter looks about the same, However the thread pitch is different. I didn't have a thread gauge nearby. I will be going to get some high strength bolts for it this weekend and swap them out and report out on the size after I get them. The OEM bolts for the Gen 4 were fine thread compared to the bolts for the gen 3.

From looking at the pic, it's the same route and by the looks of things. I'd say it would fit at a glance. That is one beauty of a picture too! I wouldn't mind getting the polished pulleys too, Very nice looking.

[Viper Girl]

From looking at the pic, it's the same route and by the looks of things. I'd say it would fit at a glance. That is one beauty of a picture too! I wouldn't mind getting the polished pulleys too, Very nice looking.

That engine with the cut outs is a beautiful work of art. I'd love to have one as a table base...

[FLATOUT]

I reused my factory hardware, pitch is different on the Gen 4 threads. Same thing on the header bolts.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

All Viper pulleys have 7 grooves so there is no different between GEN’s as far as the number of groove the belt has.

The SRT under Drive pulley is the same for both GEN 3 & 4. Belt length will change for each Gen family.


JonB whine:I cannot speak for various manufacturers that exist outside the Viper Community [that I wish we all would support.] I cant vouch for XYZ off Flea-bay being $15 cheaper, being too wide or too narrow, or too hard to install, or if they even offer a replacement grade-8 hardened bolt kit as we INCLUDE. I CAN VOUCH for what we carry, 6061 T6 (hardened alum) and who makes them for us, and has for almost a decade.

[FrgMstr]

All Viper pulleys have 7 grooves so there is no different between GEN’s as far as the number of groove the belt has. The SRT under Drive pulley is the same for both GEN 3 & 4. Belt length will change for each Gen family.JonB whine:I cannot speak for various manufacturers that exist outside the Viper Community [that I wish we all would support.] I cant vouch for XYZ off Flea-bay being $15 cheaper, being too wide or too narrow, or too hard to install, or if they even offer a replacement grade-8 hardened bolt kit as we INCLUDE. I CAN VOUCH for what we carry, and who makes them for us, and has for almost a decade.


Thanks JonB, that is why I try to spend all my Viper fun money with you first!

And I did not know that your pulley came with upgrade bolt kit. You kick much ass sir. :United_States:

[ACRucrazy]

Maybe this was known? Maybe it wasn't or maybe I am wrong. But this is what I can gather and its me really thinking out loud. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. But there are really 2 different pulleys.

IPSCO appears to be what JonB sells? It all looks the same to me.

http://www.ipsco.org/Viper_files/Viper%20billet%20Pulleys.htm

http://www.viperpartsrack.com/Daves%20Viper%20Shop

And the IPSCO / Daves Viper Shop pulley that JonB sells looks exactly the same as the SRT Comp Coupe pulley, P4510177 which is just anodized "black"

So in summary, (and it's guessing, please correct me if I am wrong) you have this pulley (all the same)
-IPSCO
-Daves Viper Shop from JonB
-SRT Comp Coupe part number P4510177

Then there is the JTSVP pulley which is now $180 with belt and bolts (the price keeps changing, was just $230)

http://shop.jtsvp.com/product.sc?productId=665&categoryId=206


Now something I have been wondering for a while. ATI makes a damper for the Gen IV.

917935E : ATI kit
- new damper
- new aluminum pulley
- hardened steel hub (part 916268) with 2 keys for a Gen IV with a blower..

917936E : ATI kit
- new damper
- new aluminum pulley
- hardened steel hub (part 916269) with 1 key for a stock Gen IV.

I see RSI also sells the ATI kit and it's listed as a Gen IV/V damper for $390 (So it would appear to me IV & V are the same as another side note)

http://www.racingsolutions.com/products/ati-super-damper-for-dodge-viper-gen-4-5-2008-2014.html

The ATI dampers have an aluminum shell and weigh 5 pounds, the steel hubs weigh 2.4 pounds. No clue on the included aluminum pulley weight or size. The notes I am seeing for the ATI damper kit? Must grind and epoxy later model block’s crank sensor area to clear the back outer diameter of the damper and hubs are made of heat-treated alloy steel.

Curious what the stock Gen IV one piece damper/hub weigh compared to the total 7.4 pounds of the ATI.

Also curious if any of those IPSCO idler, alternator, tensioner, power steering pulleys work on Gen IV? I am guessing not, but if not why?

[Getnlwr]

Something I noticed when I was putting the belt back on. The alternator has a odd action where the pulley seems to have a slipper clutch action to it. Curious why, but more curious if the upgraded pulley options have it as well.

[ACRucrazy]

Ahhh, that would make sense. It probably an Alternator Decoupler Pulley on it. My Jeep Liberty CRD had one. I never paid attention to even look at mine. Hell the car is in hibernation currently while it is below 0 outside.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrFcPqZuO3A

[Getnlwr]

Yup that's it!
It was literally a slipper clutch on the pulley for when the engine was decelerating.

[Colo08]

Diameter looks about the same, However the thread pitch is different. I didn't have a thread gauge nearby. I will be going to get some high strength bolts for it this weekend and swap them out and report out on the size after I get them. The OEM bolts for the Gen 4 were fine thread compared to the bolts for the gen 3.

From looking at the pic, it's the same route and by the looks of things. I'd say it would fit at a glance. That is one beauty of a picture too! I wouldn't mind getting the polished pulleys too, Very nice looking.

The bolts used on GEN IV cars is a Metric bolt 8mm X 1.25 pitch. You should use 10.9 Grade bolts as these are the equivalent to Grade 8 bolts.

[Getnlwr]

I still have not replaced them. They seem to be holding fine. I wouldn't mind finding a shanked and flanged bolt with a proper flange to make the install per aircraft spec. I hate the slop that automotive parts have in them, It's embarrassing. DAMMIT I need a lathe.

Thinking something like this.

https://www.belmetric.com/bf8x35p-flange-bolt-109-p-406.html?zenid=6ra32aeggm4kf11055l3o9nmf1&cPath=2_68

It would just need to be a slightly shorter shank. Perhaps about a 5MM shank.

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

guys any questions you have just call anytime, we use the best of what we can get, we have two different pulleys, one is a two parter, that fits oem and ati dampners, then we have the one piece, that is lower priced

at the time of producing, we did not look at the gen IV's, I will gladly make any changes to the belts or bolts if anyone needs, We will do or help with whatever is needed, we do plan on bringin back our entire pulley line

I will contact the VOA soon about sponsorship, I have just been too busy lately and missed the initial sponsorship, my apologies, but any questions , needs , please feel free to give me a shout

[FLATOUT]

^^^^^^^^

This guy is great! Talked to him recently about his pulleys. I have one and need to test fit it, also been crazy busy. I'll try to get it mocked up soon.

Andy



guys any questions you have just call anytime, we use the best of what we can get, we have two different pulleys, one is a two parter, that fits oem and ati dampners, then we have the one piece, that is lower priced

at the time of producing, we did not look at the gen IV's, I will gladly make any changes to the belts or bolts if anyone needs, We will do or help with whatever is needed, we do plan on bringin back our entire pulley line

I will contact the VOA soon about sponsorship, I have just been too busy lately and missed the initial sponsorship, my apologies, but any questions , needs , please feel free to give me a shout

[Getnlwr]

guys any questions you have just call anytime, we use the best of what we can get, we have two different pulleys, one is a two parter, that fits oem and ati dampners, then we have the one piece, that is lower priced

at the time of producing, we did not look at the gen IV's, I will gladly make any changes to the belts or bolts if anyone needs, We will do or help with whatever is needed, we do plan on bringin back our entire pulley line

I will contact the VOA soon about sponsorship, I have just been too busy lately and missed the initial sponsorship, my apologies, but any questions , needs , please feel free to give me a shout

Hey Tony,

Offering a different set of bolts for the Gen4 cars is all that is needed. I'm looking into getting some custom ones made by turning down other bolts to create a proper shoulder bolt that will fill the seemingly excessive large holes on the pulleys. I hate automotive grade parts fitment. I'll be trying to get it a little more precise like aero grade.

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

how are you sir, you have my address, if you ship or send me the size or an oem bolt, we can gladly make the changes, and if the belt is a different size, I can change that also
be glad to

[FLATOUT]

On the Mopar unit the factory bolts reinstalled with no issues. I need to try them on the JTS unit but I suspect they'll work just fine until we can figure out the grade 8 replacement to go in the kits.



Hey Tony,

Offering a different set of bolts for the Gen4 cars is all that is needed. I'm looking into getting some custom ones made by turning down other bolts to create a proper shoulder bolt that will fill the seemingly excessive large holes on the pulleys. I hate automotive grade parts fitment. I'll be trying to get it a little more precise like aero grade.

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

yessir, just let me know and we can make the change sir

[IndyRon]

I received my UD pulley from IPSCO and he asked Gen 3 or 4 and sent me the respective hardware necessary. I haven't installed it yet but will post up when I do.

[Getnlwr]

Andy, I am referring to the diameter of the hole in the part being sloppy in comparison to the bolt itself Best way I can describe it is a 8mm bolt fitting into a 9.5mm hole. Maybe its just the one brand of pulley. I don't like sloppy fitment. I may be able to make a sleeve spacer out of some thin wall 8mm ID stainless or al tubing, and that will be an easy fix for me.


Tony, As noted above the OEM belt fit fairly well with the UD pulley. The shipped belts seem to be about a 2" shorter and will not fit. The OEM -1" would be good. Hope all is well with you in the SRT10 RAM world. There are many days I am missing mine. I got to put an underdrive pulley on it for the new owner about 3 weeks ago. Pretty sure he got it and a throttle body from you.


Getnlwr
Andy

Bolt idea:
Shorter shank, but note how its swollen near the head of the bolt:
3725

Or a double stud with lock nuts would work like this. Image wouldn't copy. Please check link
https://www.belmetric.com/s8x10x35-metric-step-stud-p-4909.html?zenid=cbv76n4l7h6o9616ufmcvit835&cPath=9_73

[FLATOUT]

Interesting, the Mopar under drive has the same size holes as the factory pulley, guess that's why I didn't notice it.

And yes, just reuse your stock belt (people doing this mod) it works just fine with no belt slip.



Andy, I am referring to the diameter of the hole in the part being sloppy in comparison to the bolt itself Best way I can describe it is a 8mm bolt fitting into a 9.5mm hole. Maybe its just the one brand of pulley. I don't like sloppy fitment. I may be able to make a sleeve spacer out of some thin wall 8mm ID stainless or al tubing, and that will be an easy fix for me.


Tony, As noted above the OEM belt fit fairly well with the UD pulley. The shipped belts seem to be about a 2" shorter and will not fit. The OEM -1" would be good. Hope all is well with you in the SRT10 RAM world. There are many days I am missing mine. I got to put an underdrive pulley on it for the new owner about 3 weeks ago. Pretty sure he got it and a throttle body from you.


Getnlwr
Andy

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

do this flat out or gtnlowr either one , let me know what the diameter on the IV is , we can easily make that change, and I can do that on the belt as well, if the oem belt works the only thing I worry about, is that if it gets wet it may slip a touch, if the tensionor is maxed out, or gtnlwr if you have one of ours, I can check on making the change either way sir, btw , the ram world is good here at the new shop, but we seem to be getting outnumbered by the vipers a good bit here lately. they seem to be taking up a bit more space then the trucks

[Getnlwr]

The Gen 4 Bolt size for the stock pulley appears to be 8mmX1.25 by 30mm. The pulley being thicker than the stock steel one should need a longer bolt. Perhaps a 35mm length.

There is no shank area on the oem bolt, if a bolt could be found with a un-threaded shank 5mm long and the shank width about .005" to .001" (yes I realize I gave that in SAE not metric )under sized from what the pulley hole diameter is. - My brain thinks in SAE to the .000 point, as that's what I am used to at work. The other option would be to have the CNC maker of the pulley reduce the size of the holes by a small margin. (easiest fix) Maybe I'm just over thinking this.

[JTS VENOM PERFORMANCE]

The Gen 4 Bolt size for the stock pulley appears to be 8mmX1.25 by 30mm. The pulley being thicker than the stock steel one should need a longer bolt. Perhaps a 35mm length.

There is no shank area on the oem bolt, if a bolt could be found with a un-threaded shank 5mm long and the shank width about .005" to .001" (yes I realize I gave that in SAE not metric )under sized from what the pulley hole diameter is. - My brain thinks in SAE to the .000 point, as that's what I am used to at work. The other option would be to have the CNC maker of the pulley reduce the size of the holes by a small margin. (easiest fix) Maybe I'm just over thinking this.
I will get to work on that sir

[Revolution]

I need one of these I think!

[Getnlwr]

I need one of these I think!

Some of the cheapest HP you can get for the dollar$ involved.

[XXX BLK]

JTS Venom Performance, we will have your banner up ASAP and thank you for supporting the VOA………..now go back to the topic of this thread. :)