Cause of white smoke from one exhaust bank

[GTR>Viper]

https://youtu.be/q6TkACEWHqU

I think this was the first cold start of the year, but it still does it even in warm weather.
After about 5 min or the engine temp reaches 140, no more smoke.

I've had to add oil and coolant even before I noticed this and I'm not sure if it smells sweet or oily?

It doesn't do this nearly as bad anymore, but still visible smoke until it warms up.

What's going on here? (yes I'm taking it in to get looked at, but wanted to get opinions first)

[ACRSNK]

If it is smoking and you had to add oil and coolant, that isn't a good sign. Did you check to see if the coolant is mixing with the oil? Does your oil look like a milk shake?

[99Vipers]

I've had to add oil and coolant even before I noticed this :
Not good, usually means your burning coolant, head gasket problem. Why are you adding coolant and oil? How many miles on it?

[bluesrt]

sniff the coolant tank also to see if it smells like hydrocarbons(exhaust) that looks like coolant burnoff

[Voice of Reason]

My bet is head gasket failure on the drivers side. After it warms up it seals itself a little better and doesn't smoke as much.

Many/most of us have to add oil because we're constantly burning a little. But there's no good reason ever that you'd need to constantly add coolant.

[Stealth78]

By any chance was this the 20K mile car from Roanoke?

[GTR>Viper]

If it is smoking and you had to add oil and coolant, that isn't a good sign. Did you check to see if the coolant is mixing with the oil? Does your oil look like a milk shake?

The oils only has 500 miles on it, but seems normal. I can see through it easily on the dipstick.

[GTR>Viper]

I've had to add oil and coolant even before I noticed this :
Not good, usually means your burning coolant, head gasket problem. Why are you adding coolant and oil? How many miles on it?

The car uses oil and coolant, so i add to bring it up to the right levels. 500 miles on oil (22K on car), and seems to be 1/4-1/2 qt low. The coolant is also about 1/2" below the range indicator.

[GTR>Viper]

By any chance was this the 20K mile car from Roanoke?

No, it had 9K miles when i got it from a Solomon dealer in Brownsville, PA.

[swexlin]

I've never had to add coolant to my car. Only time I've ever had to was on a (coincidentally) V10 Ram years ago, turned out to be a bad radiator.

Get it checked out.

[99Vipers]

I assume you have warranty left on it so get it to a dealer ASAP. Hope the dealer in your area can solve your problem,GL

[GTR>Viper]

sniff the coolant tank also to see if it smells like hydrocarbons(exhaust) that looks like coolant burnoff

Yes!, it does smell like exhaust. almost everything is made of hydrogen and carbon though

[sadil]

You should be able to smell the coolant. It's an odd sweet smell. Definitly a blown gasket if your having to add coolant and are getting white smoke. Not the end of the world though! A cracked block or head would be a real headache.

[ZeeViper]

looks/sounds very blown head gasket to me, i definitely wouldn't drive it hard. Get that baby checked out!!

[GTR>Viper]

Yea it's sad I'm hoping the problem is a head gasket. It's still in drivetrain warranty, but I doubt a gasket would be covered since it isn't a moving part? And if it's worse, I'm not hopeful of it being covered since its been tuned for a while.

[nx91notch]

White smoke is coolant. As said by others it looks as if the driver side head gasket has failed but when it warms up stuff expands and it seals up.

[7TH_SIGN]

Head gasket or damage to block/ cylinders would be my best guess from that video. Let us know how the dealership treats you considering your mods.

[99Vipers]

Yea it's sad I'm hoping the problem is a head gasket. It's still in drivetrain warranty, but I doubt a gasket would be covered since it isn't a moving part? And if it's worse, I'm not hopeful of it being covered since its been tuned for a while.


Head gasket or damage to block/ cylinders would be my best guess from that video. Let us know how the dealership treats you considering your mods.

Hopefully it is JUST a head gasket rather then head,block/cylinder problems,(cost wise) as the dealer is probably going to tell you tough luck. Maybe one of the big dealers on here can give you some advise??


Just curious: Did your car do this from when you purchased it and how many miles have you put on it? You may have some sort of recourse from the selling dealer.

[ACRucrazy]

FBO/TUNE/CATLESS = uphill battle. :(

[Boosted Motorsports]

Hopefully it is JUST a head gasket rather then head,block/cylinder problems,(cost wise) as the dealer is probably going to tell you tough luck. Maybe one of the big dealers on here can give you some advise??


Just curious: Did your car do this from when you purchased it and how many miles have you put on it? You may have some sort of recourse from the selling dealer.

Guessing it might be a salvage car from the smashed car in his avatar?

[Jack B]

Get an oil analysis, that should tell you something. I would also pull the plugs, this might help physically pin point where the problem is. If the coolant is not visibility leaking, loosing any coolant is not a good sign.

[GTR>Viper]

Hopefully it is JUST a head gasket rather then head,block/cylinder problems,(cost wise) as the dealer is probably going to tell you tough luck. Maybe one of the big dealers on here can give you some advise??


Just curious: Did your car do this from when you purchased it and how many miles have you put on it? You may have some sort of recourse from the selling dealer.

The smoke started recently. The coolant has always been an issue. I had the coolant loss looked at once before and they said it was just a hose clamp.. got it back toward the end of last season and it still used coolant so I just parked it for winter. I got it with 9K miles and have 22K on it now. That was too long ago to get the original dealer involved.

Will the dealer be able to tell if heads/block are cracked from looking at it or compression test... or will they have to send it to machine shop?

Looks like I may be going heads n' cam earlier than expected

[bluesrt]

dealer will pull heads and have them magnafluxed to check for cracks

[sadil]

The smoke started recently. The coolant has always been an issue. I had the coolant loss looked at once before and they said it was just a hose clamp.. got it back toward the end of last season and it still used coolant so I just parked it for winter. I got it with 9K miles and have 22K on it now. That was too long ago to get the original dealer involved.

Will the dealer be able to tell if heads/block are cracked from looking at it or compression test... or will they have to send it to machine shop?

Looks like I may be going heads n' cam earlier than expected


No the dealer will probably be able to do nothing...the compression test is for piston rings which leak a lot more but this could be a small leak (just very visual due to coolant burning)

I think it just a gasket. The clamping force between the block and head increases as your engine warms up due to both pieces expanding, hence the smoke goes away.

I doubt you have a cracked block/head. That is something that will not go away and would likely cause a misfire condition as well. Btw, how are your coolant temps when driving?

Regarding a nick on the block/head interface, that would have been around since day 1 and would have been noticed right away by the original buyer due to smoke. It is not something that can just happen.

I would go to a good engine shop and have the head gasket replaced or do it yourself if your feeling adventurous. As long as your careful and do it in a clean environment, you can hurt anything.

[AZTVR]

No the dealer will probably be able to do nothing...the compression test is for piston rings which leak a lot more but this could be a small leak (just very visual due to coolant burning)
.

But, before tearing into the engine, I would expect whatever shop involved would do a cold leak down test (since the issue is worst at cold) and also a HC sniffer test of the coolant reservoir. Then would most likely remove the head or heads. It would be good to check the head bolt torques first, IMHO. I also would expect that this is an assembly error or a part issue rather than a cracked head; unless the car previously had nitrous on it or twin turbos. I will be interested to hear if they honor the warranty or even do any work anticipating warranty compensation due to the aftermarket tune. There are some folks here that think that they might cover this if it is found to be something that could not have been caused by the tune.

[donk_316]

Arrow PCM and catless? I would save for a stage 2.

[GTR>Viper]

found this post from '09 in response to an gen 3 question:

Install new gasket(s) on the engine block. Assure all coolant passages and bolt holes align properly.(Cylinder Head Gasket Installation).
CAUTION: Cylinder head bolts are coated, DO NOT oil.
Install cylinder head(s) over dowel pins. Install cylinder head bolts 1–12. Tighten cylinder head bolts 1–12 in the sequence shown in (Cylinder Head Bolt Tightening Sequence) using a two step torque sequence:
First to 47 N·m (35 ft. lbs.).
Second to 122 N·m (90 ft. lbs.).
After cylinder head bolts 1–12 have been tightened to specifications, install and tighten cylinder head tappet gallery bolts A–H in sequence shown in (Cylinder Head Bolt Tightening Sequence) to 11 N·m (95 in. lbs.).
Inspect the push rods. Replace worn or bent push rods as necessary.
Install push rods. Install rocker arms and pedestal assemblies into their original positions. Ensure push rods are seated properly under each rocker arm. Tighten rocker arm bolts to 35 N·m (26 ft. lbs.) (Cylinder Head and Gasket).

Source: Tom Sessions from viperclub.org

Yeah, definitely not comfortable doing that. Plus, I doubt the torque specs are the same.
Unfortunately the only person I trust is at the dealer, plus we'll have a laugh at what they have to say warranty wise.

Coolant temps are normal (right with oil temps at ~185-200) and no codes showing in the diagnostic check menu in the display

Just so I'm clear:

- The gasket doesn't have to be visibly worn to have an issue worthy of this type of leak?
- Even if they do a test to confirm leak, they won't be able to tell if its from the gasket, head, or block?

Please correct my inaccuracies

Sounds to me like they're just going to replace the gasket and hope it works?

I guess I'm asking, what questions should I ask the shop?

[Jack B]

Once they pull the heads, the problem should be obvious if it is the head gasket.

[GTR>Viper]

Thanks for everyone's input.

It's a cracked head near the intake port of cyl. #1. Lots of coolant found there after clues from shiny plug #1.

Originally, they said they found a leaky transmission line and it would be fixed under warranty. And that my exhaust smoke was condensation. I showed them the video and they said they'd look at it for $500 tear-down. I asked what happened to warranty, and they said the PCM voided it... of course. So they found the issue and quoted me 5500 for a new head. F-that, it's off to Calvo or A/C for heads/cam/spray. Not interested in the Arrow head/cam build because of another locked pcm that was supposed to preserve my warranty in the first place.

[7TH_SIGN]

Damn man so it was the head like we thought. I feel your frustration. I wouldn't go Arrow for the same reason. Give Calvo or Nth a call.

[AZTVR]

Thanks for everyone's input.

It's a cracked head near the intake port of cyl. #1. Lots of coolant found there after clues from shiny plug #1.

Originally, they said they found a leaky transmission line and it would be fixed under warranty. And that my exhaust smoke was condensation. I showed them the video and they said they'd look at it for $500 tear-down. I asked what happened to warranty, and they said the PCM voided it... of course. So they found the issue and quoted me 5500 for a new head. F-that, it's off to Calvo or A/C for heads/cam/spray. Not interested in the Arrow head/cam build because of another locked pcm that was supposed to preserve my warranty in the first place.

Well, some others with the Arrow PCM were successful in getting warranty repair for an engine failure unrelated to a PCM change. I don't see how a cracked casting can be caused by a PCM program unless you had the heads removed and reinstalled in the process.

[Voice of Reason]

Swapping out a head is honestly pretty easy if you can turn a wrench, the engine doesn't have to come out and you can reach everything you need easily from up top. If this happened to me I'd do it myself.

[7TH_SIGN]

$5500 for a head replacement is crazy. You can do it your self for much less.

I'm curious as to why they denied you and honored others with failed motors and the Arrow PCM. What a joke.

[Boosted Motorsports]

$5500 for a head replacement is crazy. You can do it your self for much less.

I'm curious as to why they denied you and honored others with failed motors and the Arrow PCM. What a joke.

Been noticing this also. Seems you have to have the dealer fighting on your side for it to be granted. If I was in this position I would be transporting my car to Viper Exchange regardless of the distance as I have read of a few warranty cases on here they managed to get approved.

[GTR>Viper]

The way they made it sound, the part was 3-5 days away and would cost $5,500 for the part alone. Since I have to pay out of pocket anyways, Arrow and FCA will see no more of my money... i.e.. going aftermarket.

Yea sad considering I talked to the owner of the dealership (who also has a gen V) about the mods and warranty. He said quote, "I'd fight for you" This is also the place that did all my work.

"turning my own wrench" doesn't appeal to me. Saving a few dollars in exchange for hours of frustration and busted knuckles isn't worth the "satisfaction" of putting together a 3-D puzzle that any monkey with enough time could figure out.

[donk_316]

How did they prove that the Arrow PCM caused the cracked head?

[viper200plus]

Too much timing advance can cause head gasket to blow...

[99Vipers]

The way they made it sound, the part was 3-5 days away and would cost $5,500 for the part alone. Since I have to pay out of pocket anyways, Arrow and FCA will see no more of my money... i.e.. going aftermarket.

Yea sad considering I talked to the owner of the dealership (who also has a gen V) about the mods and warranty. He said quote, "I'd fight for you" This is also the place that did all my work.

"turning my own wrench" doesn't appeal to me. Saving a few dollars in exchange for hours of frustration and busted knuckles isn't worth the "satisfaction" of putting together a 3-D puzzle that any monkey with enough time could figure out.

I hope the MONKEY that works on your car next doesn't read this,lol

[AZTVR]

Too much timing advance can cause head gasket to blow... But, a blown head gasket wasn't the failure mode reported in this case.