gen 2 Headers.....Please educate me

[Mopar Boy]

I spent too much time yesterday at Arrow listening to their 900 HP engine running on the dyno 5 feet in front of me. LOL

Add that to the already deep love of the sound of headers and it has me thinking again...

Can someone give me a run down on headers for a gen 2 creampuff engine?
Will it make much of a difference? Will sound change without a cam swap?
Any good brands still making for a gen 2?
Approx price range for a set of headers?
Are used headers still OK?
If going used are there brands I want to stay away from?
How hard is the install?
Anything special needed for install?

Yes I know I have a lot of questions. :D

Thanks!

Robert

[ViperTony]

Robert you still have the stock headers on that thing? Throw 'em away. YES, get headers. Just do it. I highly recommend Belanger or M&M but I'd consider american racing headers too. Just do it. And call this guy: http://www.viperpartsrack.com/viper-exhaust/viper-exhaust-headers/headers-gen3-gen4. Do your catback too otherwise with your larger headers going into the smaller catback pipes it sounds like someone farting through a straw. You need to let that baby breathe.

[Mopar Boy]

Haha. Yes Tony. Still stock up till the cats..... I do have high flow cats (about 4" or so long??) and a Borla system there back with if memory serves 3" pipes.

OK. Will do some looking at those suggestions. Thanks.

[Fatboy 18]

I found this website with info about tuning a Viper Engine :)

Well worth a read


http://www.viperacr.com/tuners/reference.html?submit=submit

[venum4u]

Just had the m&m headers and b&b 3" cat-back exhaust installed on my 02 GTS. Love the sound not to mention the 20 HP increase. As we speak the GTS is undergoing a GEN III head swap with the Greg good head treatment.

[slitherv10]

Haha. Yes Tony. Still stock up till the cats..... I do have high flow cats (about 4" or so long??) and a Borla system there back with if memory serves 3" pipes.

OK. Will do some looking at those suggestions. Thanks.

Hey Robert,

I don't know if you ever heard my car at one of the gatherings, but, I have the Borla Exhaust no cats and Belanger headers and it sounds very nice. Although as you say, the cream puff cam will alter the noise somewhat.

[Sybil TF]

I bought a used set of M&M headers for $900. They are awesome. I supervised the install:smilielol:and they were a snap to install. Added a touch more sound but I like it.

[slitherv10]

I bought a used set of M&M headers for $900. They are awesome. I supervised the install:smilielol:and they were a snap to install. Added a touch more sound but I like it.

Stock cat back?...Cats?

[C.J]

Interesting find. Headers seem to be a poor bang-for-the-buck for HP. Thanks for posting!


I found this website with info about tuning a Viper Engine :)

Well worth a read


http://www.viperacr.com/tuners/reference.html?submit=submit

[slitherv10]

Interesting find. Headers seem to be a poor bang-for-the-buck for HP. Thanks for posting!

Well, I have to admit, I installed the Belanger headers on my 96 and got maybe 20Hp gains. Where as Belanger states and guarantees 50-60rwhp with their headers on a Gen 2.
When I called and talked to them about it they said that it needs to be installed properly. I thought you bolt it on and the computer compensates. I am still waiting for it to compensate after 1000miles...lol.
I would have to agree that for @3500-4000 for the total exhaust package installed, for 20HP, its definitely not on my list of bang for your buck that for sure. Could have gotten that with the smooth tubes filters and a tune for way less than that.

[Troublemaker]

Interesting find. Headers seem to be a poor bang-for-the-buck for HP. Thanks for posting!

If I remember right, the forged motors picked up more than the Creampuffs did. It either had something to do with the poor stock exhaust manifolds on the earlier cars or the fact the cam was a little more aggressive, I don't remember or maybe a combination of both.

[Sybil TF]

Stock cat back?...Cats? Hi flow Belanger cats and Borla cat back.

[Garron]

I spent too much time yesterday at Arrow listening to their 900 HP engine running on the dyno 5 feet in front of me. LOL

Add that to the already deep love of the sound of headers and it has me thinking again...

Can someone give me a run down on headers for a gen 2 creampuff engine?
Will it make much of a difference? Will sound change without a cam swap?
Any good brands still making for a gen 2?
Approx price range for a set of headers?
Are used headers still OK?
If going used are there brands I want to stay away from?
How hard is the install?
Anything special needed for install?

Yes I know I have a lot of questions. :D

Thanks!

Robert

Good exhaust design is a science.
When a single cylinder fires and the exhaust travels down a primary tube it has a high pressure pulse. Immediately after the high pressure pulse is a low pressure pulse. Headers are designed to line up the low pressure pulses with the next cylinders high pressure pulse.

I have belangers on my G3, if you buy used you may want to recoat the headers.

Stay a way from the orginal edelbrock headers with the springs that hold the primarys to the collector.

[CSXT802]

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/665047-Third-time-on-the-dyno.

I know its the other site but my info is valid. Take a look and see the results base line , tuned , headers and tune.

[viperr]

Fatboy, Thanks for the article. I had been looking for a detailed article explaining power gains for specific engine changes. This helped me a lot with planning changes for my car.

[Fatboy 18]

Your Welcome :)

[Coloviper]

Not sure about hp increases but Headers on my 06' really unlocked the torque.

[C.J]

Not sure about hp increases but Headers on my 06' really unlocked the torque.

Headers on the Gen I engine should make a difference as that engine had the cast iron exhaust manifolds. The Gen II factory tubular manifolds are pretty decent from what I've read.

[Henry]

Actually the 96-97 Gen II cars had cast iron manifolds. A standard change for some weight reduction on these cars was to swap the cast iron manifolds for the later tubular shorty manifolds that were stock on the later cars. There was usually a small power gain as well but the biggest gain was the weight reduction.

[Mopar Boy]

Hey Robert,

I don't know if you ever heard my car at one of the gatherings, but, I have the Borla Exhaust no cats and Belanger headers and it sounds very nice. Although as you say, the cream puff cam will alter the noise somewhat.

Yes. Your car does sound a wee bit more agresive than stock. ;)


I found this website with info about tuning a Viper Engine :)

Well worth a read


http://www.viperacr.com/tuners/reference.html?submit=submit

Great site! Thanks Mark!


Just had the m&m headers and b&b 3" cat-back exhaust installed on my 02 GTS. Love the sound not to mention the 20 HP increase. As we speak the GTS is undergoing a GEN III head swap with the Greg good head treatment.

Nice! I like head swaps too....that mopar kit also looks fun! :D


Good exhaust design is a science.
When a single cylinder fires and the exhaust travels down a primary tube it has a high pressure pulse. Immediately after the high pressure pulse is a low pressure pulse. Headers are designed to line up the low pressure pulses with the next cylinders high pressure pulse.

I have belangers on my G3, if you buy used you may want to recoat the headers.

Stay a way from the orginal edelbrock headers with the springs that hold the primarys to the collector.


Thanks Garrett. All good info!


http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/665047-Third-time-on-the-dyno.

I know its the other site but my info is valid. Take a look and see the results base line , tuned , headers and tune.


Thanks Darren! Good info there for sure!

[RTTTTed]

Best upgrade is Corsa exhaust. 3" mandrel bends Stainless Steel. Best sounding Vipers wear Corsa. I have TNT headers on my Roe supercharged GTS with no Cats (cat delete requires tune adj or nonfoulers as stated on www.thevipergarage.com forum) The Corsa is the only exhaust that has NO drone. My 4" dynomax SS TT will hurt your ears between 1600 and 2000rpms. It sounds OK at throttle, but sucks on the road. My Corsa is loud, but it is a good loud and probably the only car that I have never been told it "too loud" ... although it is. Always a favourite at any event because it is loud, but sounds amazing.

I won a set of Belanger 5 into 2 into 1 headers and they were amazing. Jet coated inside and out for engine compartment heat reduction. With the lower hp cars these are (imo) the best headers to buy. their design and flow rates are the smoothest and maintain the lower end and gas mileage. M&Ms are similar?

For engines in the 650bhp range SRT found that the 5 into 1 headers produced 4 or 5 hp higher. Street driving and RACE headers are different and the Belangers I still recommend unless you are blown or TT. The Belangers I had got the pickles removed becuase they went onto a (hopefully) 900whp engine.

I posted some videos of exhaust system sounds on thevipergarage website

[RTTTTed]

Corsa link: http://driveviper.com/classifieds/ex...for-gen-2.html

[VIPER BAZ UK]

Complete Borla for me with just the two mufflers in the sills ...
Quite when cruising but hell of a bark when playing about ...