Dig Racing a Gen 5

[SNK3BIT]

Can you guys with experience in straight line drag racing a Gen 5 share your stories?

What rpm do you launch at? Did you use launch control?

I'm running a Nitto drag radial....will the Gen 5 clutch and axles hold with a drag radial? My car dynoed at 590rwhp. All the power is up top so I assume high rpm launches are a must.

If I'm off anywhere then somebody set me straight. 👍

[slowhatch]

This is what I do, everyone has their own flavor.


Set NT05R pressures to 19psi cold. (Will be around 20-21psi after small burnout)
Sit your seat straight up so you are not thrown off of the wheel/shifter/etc at launch.
Turn off your AC to eliminate chance of the condenser dripping on the track. Roll up the windows, helmet on.
While stopped hold the ESC button on your wheel for 5 sec to fully disable trac/stability control. Do NOT use launch control, this is not a burnout contest.
If GT/GTS or so equipped with bi-mode shocks, set shocks to "RACE". Firmer rear suspension will shock the tires more but lessen the chances of wheel hop. Wheel spin > Wheel hop.
Do not drive through the waterbox if you're not on skinnies up front. You will drag water up to the staging area and piss everyone off.
Drive around the water box and back in (use your backup camera to gauge when your rear tires are in the wet).
Slowly move a few ft out of the water box. Do not be that guy to do the burnout in the box.
Stop. Rev to 4500rpm, abruptly dump the clutch while flooring the gas and jump on the brake with your left foot. The car will momentarily lurch forward and then should be stopped by the front brake pressure. Modulate the pressure between your feet to keep the rpm up, while keeping the car from moving. Too much brake and you will stall. Not enough brake, and you will drag the car forward doing a rolling burnout.
Do a burnout only until you see smoke. Always remember you are not John Force.
Doing a lengthy burnout will do nothing but waste tire; and in some cases, if the compound is overheated and becomes greasy, impair traction. You are also cooking the clutch fluid as you sit motionless at high rpm. Your header primaries pass directly next to your clutch line. They will not tolerate extensive burnouts without impacting clutch engagement in your subsequent pass.
When you see smoke roll off of the brake while still on the gas and you should feel the car really dig in and launch forward toward the staging area.
Try not to hit the poor bastard sweeping the track at the staging light as you roll out of the burnout.
As you roll towards the staging lights, pump the clutch a few times to try to circulate the fluid.
Trip the first yellow staging light (pre-stage).
Stage as shallow as you possibly can. ie. army crawl the car up as slowly as you can to trip the second staging light (fully staged). This will allow you the maximum amount of roll-out (around 3 inches) before the 2nd beam is "untripped" and the clock begins. If you stage "deep", ie. roll any distance past whats required to light the 2nd staging light, it will mean you have less roll-out and it will negatively affect your ET.
Once you and the adjacent party is staged the man with the "button" will drop the tree. If you are here to turn times, ignore the guy to the left, ignore the tree, and ignore the crowd. Let him go, focus on your driving.
Launch rpm will vary with track prep, atmospheric conditions, tire temp, tire compound, tire pressure, on and on. I usually start at 4k rpm on my first shakedown pass and work my way up to see what the track will hold.
Bring the rpm up to the desired point.
I usually "pre-load" the clutch. As I'm staged at launch rpm I will back off the clutch right up to the engagement point, and hold there. This allows me to the smoothest possible exchange between clutch and throttle when its go time. Since the engagement point likes to move around in the clutch travel as the fluid heats up this keeps things consistent and ensures you are starting to grab the flywheel the instant you start to feed additional throttle. If you hold the clutch to the floor chances are you will feed more rpm than desired by the time your left foot actually backs off to get to the engagement point. Again, this is just my experience. Do what works for you.
Smoothly exchange throttle and clutch. The stock clutch will slip before the drag radials do at 1st gear torque levels if you're hooked up. So as she starts to get moving you can come off of the clutch completely and go WOT.
Shift like you want to go home on a trailer.
Profit.


Practice, practice, practice. The dragstrip is usually quite humbling for those who either expect a magazine number on their first pass, or those who like to tell people drag racing is "easy". "Just hit the throttle and go man, nothing to it!". The people on this board who turn the times have hundreds of passes under their belt and probably a decade+ of experience. You will learn with every pass you make.


http://www.dragtimes.com/images/25976-2013-Dodge-Viper.jpg

[SNK3BIT]

What did your gen5 run in the 1/4 with this method?

[98intrigue]

What did your gen5 run in the 1/4 with this method?
I'm not "Driver Mod" and I'm not Alex, but I do have the same exact mods as Alex. With a marginal 60', I went 10.9 @ 133mph. I'm confident with the proper launch, my car would do a 10.6 but doubt there's much more to improve on the MPH.

[Vipes]

Nice write-up, thanks for the tips. Do you think the stock clutch can handle a decent amount of NT05R launches?

[1ststrike]

Nice write up on launches

[slowhatch]

What did your gen5 run in the 1/4 with this method?

I have not had my gen 5 down the strip yet. However, I have run a 10.7@132 in a friends TA with exhaust/tune first pass on a 18" MT DR. It was my first time behind the wheel of a gen 5 (at WOT), and I couldnt figure out why I stalled the car doing the burnout. He asks after the pass if I had forgotten to turn off TC and I go; "The what?.." :) Wasn't used to those kind of luxuries back then.

24918

[Dr.Ron]

Slowhatch, VERY good advice in your post.

Ron

[The_Ruski_Driver]

With a 1800 RPM "easy launch" I was able to do 11.7 @129 bone stock. I'm going to try again in a few weeks and leave the line a little higher. I would also like to add you have to flat foot shift, I start to shift around 6200 and it seems to travel up to 6400 ish by the time I'm leaving the gear.

[Stealth78]

Alex did you ever upgrade or have to replace your half shafts in your 08? It is the one thing I keep thinking about when anticipating a trip to the track in my 08 this year.

[Viper.954]

Slow Hatch is spot on. I would ad this one piece of advice. Do you burnout in 2nd gear. It keeps the motor of the rev limiter and it get your tires spinning faster.

Ruski- What is a "flat foot shift"?

[Jack B]

A 2nd gear burnout works in a lot of cars, the G5 with an oem clutch is not one. You have to be careful, you will have some slip, this generate heat which gets into the hydraulics.


Slow Hatch is spot on. I would ad this one piece of advice. Do you burnout in 2nd gear. It keeps the motor of the rev limiter and it get your tires spinning faster.

Ruski- What is a "flat foot shift"?

[Dr.Ron]

Slow Hatch is spot on. I would ad this one piece of advice. Do you burnout in 2nd gear. It keeps the motor of the rev limiter and it get your tires spinning faster.

Ruski- What is a "flat foot shift"?

Flat foot shifting is no lift shifting. Gas on the floor the entire pass.

In my Z06's I ALWAYS did 1st gear burnouts. It gets the tires spinning easier and is nicer on the clutch. If you just watch the tach and keep the rpm's around 5000-5500, you won't hit the limiter. It's not difficult. Also, only hold down on the brake just enough to keep the car from moving forward. No need to pounce on it and fight the throttle.

Ron

Ron

[SNK3BIT]

Great feedback from everybody!

Can anyone speculate on how much abuse the stock clutch and axles can handle?

[slowhatch]

Nice write-up, thanks for the tips. Do you think the stock clutch can handle a decent amount of NT05R launches?

The stock clutch will smoke on launches in the 4500rpm range (which is where you need to be to get this show rolling with our tall ass 1st gear). Tony (nineball) has proven to us that about 40 passes is all it will take to completely destroy the oem clutch. The stock clutch has great driveability, great clamping force, and will hold big power as long as it's not slipped aggressively. The organic friction material just will not hold up like the ceramics. So if you plan on doing repetitive high slip launches, you can bet it wont last.


With a 1800 RPM "easy launch" I was able to do 11.7 @129 bone stock. I'm going to try again in a few weeks and leave the line a little higher. I would also like to add you have to flat foot shift, I start to shift around 6200 and it seems to travel up to 6400 ish by the time I'm leaving the gear.

This is another "do what you feel is best" kinda thing. Personally, I do not flat foot shift. I don't lift completely in between exchanges but I don't keep the foot to the floor either. Some do. I do not feel like my shifts are any slower for it.


Alex did you ever upgrade or have to replace your half shafts in your 08? It is the one thing I keep thinking about when anticipating a trip to the track in my 08 this year.

The factory halfshafts will hold oem+ power without any issues. They will not however, take sticky tire wheel hop forever. Wheel hop will absolutely destroy drivetrain components if left unchecked. If you start to get wheel hop upon launch, do not ride it out under power, abort the pass.

This reminds me in regards to the suspension setting. If you have bi-mode shocks you should be set to "race". Contrary to popular belief you want stiffer dampening out back to lessen the chance of wheel-hop. Yes you will increase the chances of breaking traction as you will shock the tires more, but I'd rather let a drag radial do its job, wrinkle, and absorb the impulse, rather than have an underdamped event that leads to wheel-hop. I'll take wheel-spin > wheel-hop evertime. I've updated the original post as well.


Slow Hatch is spot on. I would ad this one piece of advice. Do you burnout in 2nd gear. It keeps the motor of the rev limiter and it get your tires spinning faster.

I wouldn't do a 2nd gear burnout in a Gen 5 for the reasons mentioned by Jack. It will take a lot of clutch abuse to get it going (2nd gear goes to 80+ mph), and its not necessary. We have a really tall 1st gear unlike other cars, our 5000rpm 1st gear burnout is the same wheel speed as most cars in 2nd gear at lower rpm.

[SNK3BIT]

One more question.....is there a way to lower "launch mode" rpm? Mine is set to 5500rpm stock and that is way too high.

[SNK3BIT]

Even though I have zero faith in Dodges warranty department.....I wonder if clutch and half shafts are covered under drive train warranty?

Common sense would say yes but again it's dodge.

[slowhatch]

One more question.....is there a way to lower "launch mode" rpm? Mine is set to 5500rpm stock and that is way too high.

As stated above, do no use "burnout... er.. launch" mode. Use your right foot.


Even though I have zero faith in Dodges warranty department.....I wonder if clutch and half shafts are covered under drive train warranty?

Common sense would say yes but again it's dodge.

No Dodge will not cover track related abuse from high rpm launches. Common sense.

[SNK3BIT]

As stated above, do no use "burnout... er.. launch" mode. Use your right foot.



No Dodge will not cover track related abuse from high rpm launches. Common sense.

So it comes with "launch mode" but if you use it and break from a high rpm launch AT FACTORY SETTINGS then dodge denies the warranty......and you say that's common sense?

C'mon bro....not trying to flame but something seems off.

[Stealth78]

So it comes with "launch mode" but if you use it and break from a high rpm launch AT FACTORY SETTINGS then dodge denies the warranty......and you say that's common sense?

C'mon bro....not trying to flame but something seems off.

FCA is not going to cover broken drivetrain components while racing on a track, period. If you wanted to get in a big enough pissing match FCA probably has the ability to utilize your own radio/Nav unit in the car to trace where your last mileage was recorded when the car broke. Just my speculation...

[Dr.Ron]

This is another "do what you feel is best" kinda thing. Personally, I do not flat foot shift. I don't lift completely in between exchanges but I don't keep the foot to the floor either. Some do. I do not feel like my shifts are any slower for it.

Plus, at these HP levels, powershifting/flat foot shifting often leads to more wheelspin, increasing ET, and ends up being counterintuitive.


Ron

[slowhatch]

FCA is not going to cover broken drivetrain components while racing on a track, period. If you wanted to get in a big enough pissing match FCA probably has the ability to utilize your own radio/Nav unit in the car to trace where your last mileage was recorded when the car broke. Just my speculation...

I highly doubt this.


So it comes with "launch mode" but if you use it and break from a high rpm launch AT FACTORY SETTINGS then dodge denies the warranty......and you say that's common sense?

C'mon bro....not trying to flame but something seems off.

You're twisting my words. You asked if clutch and half-shafts are covered by warranty while simultaneously discussing drag launches. I told you no, if someone pulls your clutch out after failure and notices that the friction material is worn down to the puck, no they are not going to cover it under warranty. Do they cover your break pads after you've worn through them? In regards to the half shafts I doubt they would be able to prove with enough certainty that it was caused through abuse at the drag-strip so it will likely be covered.

You can use launch control to death on a stock car on stock tires, it will not break anything except your wallet on the tire bill.

[SNK3BIT]

I highly doubt this.



You're twisting my words. You asked if clutch and half-shafts are covered by warranty while simultaneously discussing drag launches. I told you no, if someone pulls your clutch out after failure and notices that the friction material is worn down to the puck, no they are not going to cover it under warranty. Do they cover your break pads after you've worn through them? In regards to the half shafts I doubt they would be able to prove with enough certainty that it was caused through abuse at the drag-strip so it will likely be covered.

You can use launch control to death on a stock car on stock tires, it will not break anything except your wallet on the tire bill.

Gotcha.....were on the same page. 👍

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Plus, at these HP levels, powershifting/flat foot shifting often leads to more wheelspin, increasing ET, and ends up being counterintuitive.


Ron

The stock record was set by using the flat foot shift method

[Viper.954]

A 2nd gear burnout works in a lot of cars, the G5 with an oem clutch is not one. You have to be careful, you will have some slip, this generate heat which gets into the hydraulics.

Thanks for that tip.

[Jack B]

A minor correction, the G5 does not have half shafts, it uses CV joints . Not sure when it changed, G1/G2 had HS, G3/G4?, G5 uses CV

[SilveRT8]

Alex did you ever upgrade or have to replace your half shafts in your 08? It is the one thing I keep thinking about when anticipating a trip to the track in my 08 this year.

Early built '08 had the hollow half shafts from the Gen 3 cars, I know as I broke one at the Drag track, mine was built in Feb, then mid-year they switched to solid ones when the ACRs came out, no more breakage. If your car was built in May '08 or later your good to go.

[Jack B]

It appears that the change to CV was the G5 - anyone know different?

G1: HS
G2: HS
G3: HS
G4: CV
G5: CV



Early built '08 had the hollow half shafts from the Gen 3 cars, I know as I broke one at the Drag track, mine was built in Feb, then mid-year they switched to solid ones when the ACRs came out, no more breakage. If your car was built in May '08 or later your good to go.

[SNK3BIT]

It appears that the change to CV was the G5 - anyone know different?

G1: HS
G2: HS
G3: HS
G4: HS
G5: CV

Wow I had no clue. Are CV joints stronger?

[Jack B]

Yes they are stronger and have less losses. We should get a second verification on the G4. Just look for a half shaft with no universal joints.

[Malu59RT]

Regarding the clutch/brakes, they are covered under factory warranty for 12 months/12,000 miles, for factory defect...not for abuse. I have had both replaced under warranty on my Gen 4 (the clutch was actually done at 13,000 miles or so, but I had brought it in a couple of times before while under warranty, and the tech wasn't able to diagnose it. Thankfully, my documented service history saved me. My dealer also replaced my rear half-shafts under extended warranty. I've also had the clutch replaced on my Gen 5 under good will at 24,000 miles under a very unique situation, which I won't discuss here. Andy or Mark can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Stealth78]

Early built '08 had the hollow half shafts from the Gen 3 cars, I know as I broke one at the Drag track, mine was built in Feb, then mid-year they switched to solid ones when the ACRs came out, no more breakage. If your car was built in May '08 or later your good to go.

I'll have to double check but I am 99% positive my car has a 5/08 build date on the tag. Actually surprised cars rolling through the line at that point weren't considered 09's.

[Steve M]

Yes they are stronger and have less losses. We should get a second verification on the G4. Just look for a half shaft with no universal joints.

Jack, the Gen 4s are CVs. Mine was a February build, and has the hollow variants. We'll see how they hold up with the stock clutch on an 18" MT DR this year.

[Jack B]

I will correct the list, we need a second verification on the G3m


Jack, the Gen 4s are CVs. Mine was a February build, and has the hollow variants. We'll see how they hold up with the stock clutch on an 18" MT DR this year.

[Steve M]

I'll have to double check but I am 99% positive my car has a 5/08 build date on the tag. Actually surprised cars rolling through the line at that point weren't considered 09's.

You'll want to check the shafts to verify - mine is a Feb '08 build, and has the hollow shafts (not mine, but they look exactly like this):

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/Viper%20Hollow%20Shaft_zpskckqzts4.jpg

Here are the "double hump" solid shafts:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/Viper%20Solid%20Shaft_zpsmsohx7ld.jpg

At this point, I'm not sure I'm going to chance running the hollow shafts on drag radials...it wasn't in the plan, but then again, the thought of a flat bed ride home isn't appealing either.

[Jack B]

Half shafts are hollow? Have there been problems with the early HS.

[Steve M]

Half shafts are hollow? Have there been problems with the early HS.

Mine are apparently, and yes, there have been documented problems with them, which is why I'm probably not going to even attempt using them with drag radials, especially since the last time I went to the track I had significant wheel hop on the 1-2 shift that probably didn't do them any favors.

[Stealth78]

You'll want to check the shafts to verify - mine is a Feb '08 build, and has the hollow shafts (not mine, but they look exactly like this):

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/Viper%20Hollow%20Shaft_zpskckqzts4.jpg

Here are the "double hump" solid shafts:

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/meentss02/Viper%20Solid%20Shaft_zpsmsohx7ld.jpg

At this point, I'm not sure I'm going to chance running the hollow shafts on drag radials...it wasn't in the plan, but then again, the thought of a flat bed ride home isn't appealing either.

Well... I have verified that my build tag is 5/08. Oddly enough my shaft don't necessarily look like with of the ones you have posted but they do not look to have the "double hump". The tag on the shaft reads TAK0128M0160. Anyone able to identify if I have the hollow or solid shafts? Unfortunately I know my luck and I will be the single example of someone with an obscure May build date with hollow shafts. Lol!

[Steve M]

What about the Mopar Part number? I'm guessing the hollow shafts are the "AA" part number, and the solid ones "AB". Just a guess though.

[SilveRT8]

May not help much but when they replaced the broken left half shaft on my 08 the new part number was 5038200AB, same as the double hump picture above, wich has a different TAK # than yours.
Mine broke after a hard launch at the strip, but on the stock tires. I was still able to limp-drive the car back home, some 40 miles, as the other half shaft could still turn the other wheel.
One wheel drive experience, back end swaying with any throttle application.

[Stealth78]

Well that sucks... Proved the myth of May builds having solid shafts wrong.... My part number is P05038200AA

[Stealth78]

Was that also when they changed over to the round clip design from the square? This probably also means that I am going to have a Hell of a time pulling apart when I do my gear swap right?

[Stealth78]

Anyone happen to know what the solid "double hump" shafts cost? I feel as if it would probably be in my best interest to upgrade the shafts when I'm taking stuff apart to do the 3:55's. Realistically I will probably only run the 1/4 mile on occasion, and I will not be bolting on any DR's. The most aggresive tire I will probably be running for dig racing would either be the R888 or the new R888R.

[Jack B]

The drag radial may be better than the oem tires in some ways, there is less wheel hop,


Anyone happen to know what the solid "double hump" shafts cost? I feel as if it would probably be in my best interest to upgrade the shafts when I'm taking stuff apart to do the 3:55's. Realistically I will probably only run the 1/4 mile on occasion, and I will not be bolting on any DR's. The most aggresive tire I will probably be running for dig racing would either be the R888 or the new R888R.

[Stealth78]

The drag radial may be better than the oem tires in so.

How do you mean? More flexible sidewall = less shock?

[Steve M]

How do you mean? More flexible sidewall = less shock?

I had some pretty bad wheel hop on the 1-2 shift on 4 year old Michelin Pilot SS's, and have the video to prove it...I'm not going back unless I'm on drag radials, and I'm not going to be putting on drag radials until I can track down some of the solid half shafts. So far, Jon B hasn't come up with anything...I didn't figure this would be a hard part to come by, but I've so far been mistaken.