Fiat

[SmoknTires]

It's now officially a done deal.

http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do;jsessionid=5C8C58BDD5B58F328FA31C2B 60E9CACD?&id=15252&mid=1

[The_Greg]

So we need a smiley like this with the Italian flag then?

:United_States:

[Fatboy 18]

So not knowing much about corporate stuff, does this mean an Italian company now owns the Chrysler / Dodge American company outright? If so I think that's pretty sad :(

I'm all for design input but selling an American company seems a bit sad to me?

Clarkson on Top Gear will be all over this if they ever get a Viper on the UK Top Gear show..... Ooooh Look ladies and Gentleman its the new Fiat Viper :(

[commandomatt]

Even though I understand that this may be better for the overall health of the company, it really sucks that our now 'All American' car is that just by name.

I like to spend my money on American products, if I have a choice, and to know that the profits stay here. These days when so much gets outsourced outside our borders, it seems like there is less and less we can truly call American made. Then when we have something that is in fact made here, profits may end up elsewhere.....


Matt

[Anonymous]

Would you feel better with a Chevy suburban,with the engine made in Mexico and the body in Canada?

[Fatboy 18]

Even though I understand that this may be better for the overall health of the company, it really sucks that our now 'All American' car is that just by name.

I like to spend my money on American products, if I have a choice, and to know that the profits stay here. These days when so much gets outsourced outside our borders, it seems like there is less and less we can truly call American made. Then when we have something that is in fact made here, profits may end up elsewhere.....


MattGood Post, That's just the way I feel too.

[The_Greg]

My father, grandfather, many aunts, uncles, and other family members worked for AMC and then Chrysler at the plant in Kenosha Wisconsin. The food that made my bones grow as a kid was paid for by money my father made from Chrysler. My education was funded through my father's work, which kept an engine plant running, which produced engines that powered many American cars. I will never forget this. So I'm as proud to own American as the next patriot.

But I also think I hold quite a modern view... We live in a truly global economy now. There exists no cars that are all American, nor many imports that don't have a touch of American in them. A 'car manufacturer' is only that - a high level systems integrator that brings together brakes from Italy, castings and electronics from China, The Viper has an oil cooler from Germany.. The list goes on. We live in a world where Challengers are made in Canada, yet the Toyota Camry is made in Kentucky. Be proud that the Viper will continue to be designed, tested, and assembled out of Detroit... This is where the soul is born; at the desk of those who are tasked with specifying and tweaking the design.

So in the end, yes I feel a small bit of remorse at this news. But I also am happy from what I have seen with our interaction with Fiat in the recent years versus Cerebrus, Diamler, and the floundering days before then. I hope they continue to treat us well, and most importantly, I hope that we continue to make cars that have American souls.

:United_States:

[VYPR BYT]

look at the bright side... now motor trendvestite will stop hating on us

[commandomatt]

Would you feel better with a Chevy suburban,with the engine made in Mexico and the body in Canada?

I dont get your post......it's the same deal, different brand......So No,....I dont feel any better about that

Years ago when I ordered a Ford model that was built in both Mexico and in the US, I specifically told the dealer that I would not buy the car unless I got one that was built in the US plant

Matt

[Loud]

Isn't Toyota the most "American" car now? Majority of the parts are made here making it so from what I read a couple years ago.

[ViperSmith]

My worry is, Chrysler, once again, will be bled dry of its cash. It seems like it is what Chrysler likes to do.

I hope to be wrong, but Fiat is hemorrhaging cash and Chrysler is doing quite well.

[Anonymous]

My post means that Chevy is American owned, but it doesn't really make a difference anymore,I think Greg said it the best.

[Coloviper]

While I am a big proponent of American or at least North American built, it will be good to have it all under one roof, one direction and one ownership. Yes Fiat is blowing through cash and Chrysler is profiting. One needs the profits and the other needs the losses for taxes. It will all work out in the end to keep the money in the company and not going to the government.

It was Fiat that injected the love into the interiors and new styling for the latest vehicles. Fiat who proposed adding money into component budgets and new technology. There has been a lot of good that Chrysler has done based upon the direction received from Fiat so this is a good thing.

In the end, almost no company is truly American owned anymore. There are very few! In this new global economy it rests with where the IP is located and where things are manufactured/assembled. To this point, America is still a major player and a lot of money put into our economy as a result.

In the end, a lot of these companies go through cycles but fall on bad times a lot as well. I am willing to bet in a cash call over all the years in business, have they truly made any money? Minimal to a loss. If foreign owned, the loss and liability is there, not to our economy here in America.

I am thinking this is a good thing and Viper is still conceived, born and raised in Detroit. Maybe now since Fiat owns everything and SRT is it's own brand, they can strike a deal with Ferrari/Maserati and sell and service them out of the same Ferrari/Maserati dealerships in addition to the big four Viper dealers thus getting around the dealer experience and maintenance support issues, once and for all. That last comment has nothing to do with the fact the closest auto dealer of any manufacturer to our home is in fact a Ferrari/Maserati/Bentley dealer in great standing.

[daytonprowler]

The difference I see with the Fiat/Chrysler from the Daimler/Chrysler is a more true collaboration. Chrysler was a mere dumping ground for Daimler's old technology and parts. I really don't see that coming from Fiat. Hopefully this will turn out better.

[Black Adder]

Let's not forget, it was Fiat that saved the Viper from its demise and the Viper is still built in the USA. Not only built, but HAND built in Detroit

[Shooter]

Taken for a ride.


http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/taken-for-a-ride-bill-vlasic/1100616250?ean=9780060934484

[GhostStalker27]

Hearing stuff like this makes a little upset (starts at 0:35)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67EY_0xPEUQ

[Chorps]

The difference I see with the Fiat/Chrysler from the Daimler/Chrysler is a more true collaboration. Chrysler was a mere dumping ground for Daimler's old technology and parts. I really don't see that coming from Fiat. Hopefully this will turn out better.

This is true.

One has to remember that Chrysler was looking for a dance partner long before the Daimler merger.

Evidence of that can be found in the most unlikely place: The Austin Mini. BMW and Chrysler were talking about a merger long before the Daimler folks came by. The Mini's engine was designed by Chrysler and was the first steps in working together towards a merger.

Daimler didn't like that idea and stepped in with some big cash to some top level Chrysler execs to sell the idea that Daimler was a much better partner than BMW. The rest is history...golden parachutes for a bunch of Chrysler top brass and a 'merger of equals...'

It was evident that Daimler think much about Chrysler engineering and that Daimler cared much more about the hoard of cash that Chrysler had in its accounts. They went on a spending spree including using Chrysler cash to pay for reparations going all the way back to WWII (the irony of using Jeep money to pay reparations is ironic). Also 'joint programs' like the GC and ML engineering were always footed on the budget of the American side, bleeding Chrysler more just to allow MB to have a healthier looking bottom line.

Also, projects like the Caliber were asking for failure because the German managers were not only prejudiced against their American counterparts, they were outright denigrating towards Chrysler customers. The instrument panel was cost cutting was beyond any sane measure and the managers in charge (from the Daimler side) simply stated that their customers were stupid and wouldn't notice the abysmal parts being supplied.

When Daimler felt that the writing was on the wall for Chrysler (and blamed Chrysler for all the trouble that Daimler put them in), they simply found another sucker in Cerberus, who thought they could turn things around like any other product or widget. A company is a company, and since credit was cheap and available, Cerberus thought they could use other people's money to fix Chrysler. Nardelli (Home Depot) was brought in but he figured out pretty fast that the cupboards were bare and Chrysler was in dire straits. Then the meltdown happened and Chrysler got tipped into bankruptcy.

This is the reason why Fiat owns Chrysler now. Chrysler didn't have a lot of promise when they went into bankruptcy, and Steve Ratner's team (Obama's car czar) caught onto that right away. That's why one of the conditions of bailing out Chrysler was that they needed to merge with another car company. The only taker was Fiat, who themselves knew that Fiat was in an even more precarious situation than Chrysler.

The funny thing is that Chrysler seems to have the whole hail mary turn around thing going for them. Things picked up way faster (new interiors and new designs) than most anyone expected.

Perhaps it's an artifact from the old Iacocca bankruptcy days, but Chrysler is adept at making things work quickly and at a low cost. And they're good at marketing. So now Chrysler winds up holding a decent chunk of change, is healthier than when they ever were under Daimler, but they still had the date at the altar with Fiat, and now it's clear that Fiat needs Chrysler way more than the other way around.

At least the Fiat group is much more accommodating to Chrysler so it's possible that both companies can become stronger overall. However it might be difficult times ahead since Chrysler has to feed a lot more Italian mouths along with keeping the American family going. At least Marchionne knows that Chrysler is the one bringing home the bacon.

[The_Greg]

Great post Chorps.


Hearing stuff like this makes a little upset (starts at 0:35)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67EY_0xPEUQ

That video is over a year old and not really applicable anymore as those statements have been denied by Ralph.

[commandomatt]

Great post Chorps.



That video is over a year old and not really applicable anymore as those statements have been denied by Ralph.

It may be old but I believe it still applies. Just because Ralph said something....doesn't mean that this is the absolute truth. Ferrari has an incredible amount of history and the Italians are very proud of the brands accomplishments (as they should be).....so don't discount the fact that they now control the Viper faith 100% and even though they are allowing it to live on for the time being, if it doesn't make sense financially, it may not last as long as we want it to. I am sure the Ferrari will be kept alive regardless of profitability and they will want it to be the best that they offer.

Matt

[KRATEDISEASE]

Let's not forget, it was Fiat that saved the Viper from its demise and the Viper is still built in the USA. Not only built, but HAND built in Detroit

here, here, I agree.

[Coloviper]

Well the way around that is provide a Mopar screw blower kit for sale that the current AND previous generation Vipers can have access to. If most all owners mod their Vipers in high numbers anyway then, it accomplishes both goals. For those that want the power way up there, it gives that option without hurting Ferrari's rules.

Don't get me wrong, for a car this expensive, it should just come this way from the factory which if I had the cash I would want from the factory, but if rules are rules then where there is a will, there is a way. Why this is not already out there as an option is beyond me. Bet most cars would not even leave the dealership before the mod is completed. Seems like a simple fix and with over 25,000 cars out there, there is enough to make it worthwhile.

Maybe this will fall out of the Hellcat development, dunno! Would be nice,

[commandomatt]

Well the way around that is provide a Mopar screw blower kit for sale that the current AND previous generation Vipers can have access to. If most all owners mod their Vipers in high numbers anyway then, it accomplishes both goals. For those that want the power way up there, it gives that option without hurting Ferrari's rules.

Don't get me wrong, for a car this expensive, it should just come this way from the factory which if I had the cash I would want from the factory, but if rules are rules then where there is a will, there is a way. Why this is not already out there as an option is beyond me. Bet most cars would not even leave the dealership before the mod is completed. Seems like a simple fix and with over 25,000 cars out there, there is enough to make it worthwhile.

Maybe this will fall out of the Hellcat development, dunno! Would be nice,

I absolutely agree with this. This way the Viper can be tuned from the factory to satisfy any restrictions yet easily become what we want it to be at delivery time. Win Win

Matt

[GhostStalker27]

Great post Chorps.



That video is over a year old and not really applicable anymore as those statements have been denied by Ralph.



You're right it is. I guess the story is it was a joke made at the NY reveal. But at the same time I would expect him to shush any rumors as It'd be bad for the brand. Either way it's old news

[Policy Limits]

Love my "Fiat" Garage. :)

[ViperSmith]

With this move, perhaps SRT should start selling and servicing the Vipers at Maseratti...

[Policy Limits]

Great idea. But Maserati usually shares the showroom with Ferrari.

An interesting point though, is how my Sport model & Gen V GTS share the same exact price point.

[BlknBlu]

awaiting the Abarth version of the Viper......lol

Bruce

[Coloviper]

Will it come with an autographed Charlie Sheen ankle bracelet?

[The_Greg]

Will it come with an autographed Charlie Sheen ankle bracelet?

Or a Catrinel Marlon clone?

[I Bin Therbefor]

I hope that Fiat can make the company a going concern. The only thing that's holding Viper back is the lack of resources needed to execute the ideas that Team Viper has. IMO, "Fiat" did some neat things including giving Team Viper the opportunity to learn how to make a profit on short runs with suppliers who do short run work, P tires when M said no, seats that don't look like lazy boys, an understanding of style, interior wrapping of lots of things, etc etc. They didn't force any solutions that were NOT Viper. Got great expectations and hopes. :o

[Chorps]

I don't see how the current SRT branded Viper fits into the existing Fiat line-up. Hopefully it doesn't get squeezed out altogether as it is a bit of a "tweener" within the broader Fiat portfolio. I suspect they have much bigger issues in the near term however.

I will give you a hint.

Who was President and CEO of Dodge in 2009?

That's about all I'll say about your question...the rest is an exercise for the reader. :P

[VRYALT3R3D]

I remember Magna International wanted to buy Chrysler. How come that didn't materialize?

Don't forget this as well:


The auto bailouts taught us an important lesson: Be wary of buying bonds in unionized companies, because if the company goes under while a Democrat is in the White House,creditors will get shoved to the back of the line. After George W. Bush bailed out the automakers, Barack Obama managed their bankruptcy. Obama threw aside bankruptcy precedent, and put senior creditors in line behind the United Auto Workers (UAW). Obama even used the bully pulpit to attack those senior creditors who wanted their due. The UAW, which had spent millions to aid in Obama’s election, took ownership of Chrysler, while bondholders took a bath. So, not only are unions likely to push a company toward bankruptcy, they’re also likely to cut in line when bankruptcy hits.

[slitherv10]

With the fact that Fiat has been struggling for a while now in regards to getting itself into the small car market globally, it seems that it was a good strategic move on their part to save themselves and Chrysler from extinction in years to come with competition within the car market heating up.
Chrysler and fiat both benefit from this move. Its a win win situation. Fiat gains access to the US market and can rebadge products to suit its needs within the Chrysler brand and Chrysler gains access and partnerships in companies worldwide that are affiliated with Fiat and thus penetrate those areas that were unreachable in the past. Obviously there is a lot more to this than that but, its all good as a business perspective.
The Viper's future through all this could go either way. With focus towards profit and technology and engineering, It could get dropped as they do have the Maserati and Ferrari brands to eat up that end of the spectrum. Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians here will make the Viper vulnerable. IMO

Keep in mind Chrysler is still involved with Nissan as well. Ie,,..new Dodge ram taking over the Titan

[Coloviper]

Still need an American Skunkworks car like the Viper for Fiat. Lots of Americans and Canadians who will not buy a European Exotic due to the image it portrays, cost of maintenance, etc.. A number of Americans want American made only and Canadians practically hang anyone who has money or for sure ridicule ostentatious displays of it like a fancy car. I am a dual citizen and experienced that mindset growing up in the True North before moving down to the Southwest.

In the end, the Viper's demise, if that ever happens, it will not be because they already have other Fiat European Exotics in that space. It will be because it was not selling or needed in the market anymore. Not sure what production is like in 2014 but I sure know a lot of people who have jumped into ownership of a 2014 Viper this year and skipped the 2013 altogether. Someone must be able to pull up sales figures by month. I bet on the 2014s they are pleasantly surprising.

Nothing sells Viper like the threat of a Tombstone. Seems to have always been that way since 1992. People can't believe they are making it and thus it feels too good to be true so naturally they feel the train will come into the station at any moment.

[Policy Limits]

I've heard some speculate that 2015 will be the end of the V. Thoughts?

[slitherv10]

I've heard some speculate that 2015 will be the end of the V. Thoughts?

I would have to doubt that.

With the amount of money that is needed for redesigning a new car and the parts and what not involved in manufacturing a newly designed car, It would not be in SRT's favor in my opinion.

[C.J]

2015...would that be CAFE related or other new fuel efficiency laws?

[Chorps]

Keep in mind Chrysler is still involved with Nissan as well. Ie,,..new Dodge ram taking over the Titan

There will be no Nissan tie-up with Fiat Chrysler because Nissan is already tied up with Renault. Renault-Fiat-Chrysler-Nissan would be too difficult to manage because both Fiat and Renault are having a tough time in their home markets in Europe. Also the egos of the CEOs involved would mean a boardroom brawl of epic proportions between Ghosn and Marchionne.


I've heard some speculate that 2015 will be the end of the V. Thoughts?

Magic 8 ball says: Concentrate and ask again. :P

The whole return of the Viper was predicated on a positive cash flow business case. If that doesn't happen for 2015, there will be a lot of uncomfortable people shifting in their chairs as the program gets reviewed by the Board and top execs.

However, it really depends on the fortunes of Chrysler as to whether the overall company can afford to subsidize the Viper program, as shutting it down again would be a big embarrassment to a lot of senior executives who green lit the program, and Chrysler as a whole.

If the Viper loses money marginally I bet they will renew it, albeit without massive expenditures on R&D and marketing. In other words, the same old story. This will be ever more difficult going forward considering the competition (everyone including the Corvette group) pumps a load of cash into their respective cars.

I don't envy the Viper engineers (and execs and everyone down the line). It is a labour of love for those guys to keep the Viper competitive, if not on top often, for a shoestring budget and no recognition.

If I had my druthers, I would fast track buying the 8-speed 8L90E from GM from the Z06, or if that doesn't work out, use the current 6-speed SRT8 auto box and torque manage the car down low, make a convertible and get this car to market ASAP. Also I'd launch it in China with custom paint/trim specifically for the Chinese market.

The Viper needs to move units quickly and there's a whole lot of people with money who can't drive a stick and just want a toy, let alone a toy with a reputation for being hard to drive. The Chinese market leans way more towards show rather than go, but they have a whole lot of people with new money to spend.

Will this offend a lot of hard-core Viper owners? Sure, I'm one of them. But the sad reality is that you cannot sustain a hard-core high performance car like the Viper (at this price point) without offering a version for the masses. We get an ACR only if the Viper is sustainable; the Viper is not sustainable because of the ACR. That may be a difficult pill to swallow for some but I don't see hardcore variants like Black editions, XKR-S GT, ACRs, GT3s and ZR1/Z06s outselling their base cars by a long shot.

There's very few cars in the sports car market (not including pony cars or compacts) for a reason, it's hard to survive in this niche let alone thrive. Only Porsche and Corvette thrive in this price range, everyone else sits well above it and I bet every other program manager in the industry looks at Chrysler with an mix of pity and admiration for being so crazy. Except Lotus I guess...they're even crazier than Chrysler.

[The_Greg]

... And the new name is announced... Fiat Chrysler Automobiles or FCA.
http://jalopnik.com/fiat-chrysler-automobiles-is-the-new-chrysler-1511473732

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/t_original/19e1m34hoia1ojpg.jpg

Not an extremely attractive logo. But its devoid of history for either company which is neutral I guess.

And to Chorps: Lotus' contract engineering side brings in at least some of the cash that supports the vehicle side. They actually do work on the GM V8's if I recall correctly. Viper is in a very unique spot in the market with their price and volume, but to say it’s not sustainable simply because of that might not turn out to be true: Viper has never made money for Chrysler (neither does Veyron for Bugatti apparently) and just because we are the only ones doing this type of car at this price at this volume doesn't mean its not possible to sustain. I know executives are aware of the additional sales and brand loyalty that comes with having a halo car (bought a civilian car because of Viper, or a whole fleet in some cases) but I do wonder how they financially take that into account because they DID say in the beginning of Viper production that it has to make money this time around. We will see!