The Chronicles of SneakySnake Vol III

[Scot@Prefix]

RPM kills engines. The whole point of a stroker is a monster, broad TQ curve to create incredible average power over a given time interval. You just can't have it both ways or it would be commonplace already. I think it's a different kind of amazing when I drive around with friends in their Huracans whom need rpm to make power. But that's not the experience the viper is, nor would I want it to be. I like seeing my passengers necks being snapped off from a 4k rpm roll-on. The viper experience (esp modified NA ones) is just unmatched by anything I've ever been in, its absolutely explosive. I often take it for granted until I drive something else, and go ok, waow this feels slow.

A viper crank weighs just under 90 lbs, not including balancer, flywheel/clutch assembly. That gets really heavy as RPM goes up, and durability goes down :(

[kriskyk]

RPM kills engines. The whole point of a stroker is a monster, broad TQ curve to create incredible average power over a given time interval. You just can't have it both ways or it would be commonplace already. I think it's a different kind of amazing when I drive around with friends in their Huracans whom need rpm to make power. But that's not the experience the viper is, nor would I want it to be. I like seeing my passengers necks being snapped off from a 4k rpm roll-on. The viper experience (esp modified NA ones) is just unmatched by anything I've ever been in, its absolutely explosive. I often take it for granted until I drive something else, and go ok, waow this feels slow.

Although a destroked 9000 rpm twin turbo viper motor would be a riot!

[txA&M08]

That's almost the same as what mine did with 13 to 1 pistons!

Didn't you put 800 to the ground though? Or were you talking about the torque?

[Arizona Vipers]

Didn't you put 800 to the ground though? Or were you talking about the torque?

Yeah, his dyno is whp too right? Mine did 803 on the prefix chassis dyno.

[txA&M08]

Yeah, his dyno is whp too right? Mine did 803 on the prefix chassis dyno.

Alex's readings were from the engine dyno at Prefix

[Arizona Vipers]

Alex's readings were from the engine dyno at Prefix

ahhh ok, yeah makes sense

[Jack B]

Although a destroked 9000 rpm twin turbo viper motor would be a riot!

The crank is still too heavy for 9k

[Whiskey]

The crank is still too heavy for 9k

Billet crank and Ti Rods should do the trick. Because we can use Chevy rods it's almost affordable.

[Whiskey]

RPM kills engines. The whole point of a stroker is a monster, broad TQ curve to create incredible average power over a given time interval. You just can't have it both ways or it would be commonplace already. I think it's a different kind of amazing when I drive around with friends in their Huracans whom need rpm to make power. But that's not the experience the viper is, nor would I want it to be. I like seeing my passengers necks being snapped off from a 4k rpm roll-on. The viper experience (esp modified NA ones) is just unmatched by anything I've ever been in, its absolutely explosive. I often take it for granted until I drive something else, and go ok, waow this feels slow.

You do have a point with that. That's why I couldn't keep the Murcia very long. Then again...the monster TQ these engines make is alway why I'm on Viper #5. We will see how long I can keep it stock.

[Nth Moto]

Looking good Alex, I'm glad Scot and the guys got you situated so quickly!


Billet crank and Ti Rods should do the trick. Because we can use Chevy rods it's almost affordable.

The rotating assembly doesn't mean anything if you don't have the induction system (top end) to support the RPM vs the cubes. 99% of Viper combinations have zero business being anywhere near that RPM regardless of rotating assembly parts. This is coming from people that are doing a titanium connecting rod combination currently.

[slowhatch]

Motor got to VE on Monday but since the shop doesn't revolve around me (**gasp), I'll have to wait until next week till they can fit me into their workflow.

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154144_zpshfmcuavq.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154144_zpshfmcuavq.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154154_zpsd1lpevyi.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154154_zpsd1lpevyi.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154538_zpsccrym0fx.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154538_zpsccrym0fx.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154626_zpsiwijmawn.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154626_zpsiwijmawn.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154906_zpsw5gceeso.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154906_zpsw5gceeso.jpg.html)

These port covers are pretty cool;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154727_zpsjcczzftx.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154727_zpsjcczzftx.jpg.html)

Can see the Cometic HG peeking out here;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154941_zpsymx2qewk.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01042/20200629_154941_zpsymx2qewk.jpg.html)

[ViperNC]

The excitement and anticipation builds.... Happy days soon!

[Whiskey]

Looking good Alex, I'm glad Scot and the guys got you situated so quickly!



The rotating assembly doesn't mean anything if you don't have the induction system (top end) to support the RPM vs the cubes. 99% of Viper combinations have zero business being anywhere near that RPM regardless of rotating assembly parts. This is coming from people that are doing a titanium connecting rod combination currently.


Well...we kinda do... I remember when Greg Good ported a set of Gen4 heads for me and they flowed 401CFM @ 28". Doing the calculations those heads N/A had the potential for just a touch over 1,038hp So I'd say when with all the right factors in place and giving a conservative estimate we should be able to see 925-950bhp all motor with a BIG Cam. It would need to be huge and not too street-able. Start with something like 295 duration and .650 lift and run it through the simulation and see what it does.

So yes....back to the saying Anything is possible with enough time and money. But you are right it's not easy and turbos make power easily on these cars. N/A power is the hard way.


Not trying to derail your thread. You have a awesome street setup and can't wait to hear how you like it.

[TrackAire]

Looking forward to seeing this car run again.

What is the substance on the intake manifold and valve covers? It almost looks like coolant sprayed on them, dried and was not cleaned off. At first I thought it was dust but not so sure.

[slowhatch]

Looking forward to seeing this car run again.

What is the substance on the intake manifold and valve covers? It almost looks like coolant sprayed on them, dried and was not cleaned off. At first I thought it was dust but not so sure.

I have no idea, but hoping its something I can get after with a a shop rag and some detailing spray.

[SLP]

Any idea of what the function of these fuel rail covers are? I've seen some gen V's with the on and some, without.

44345

[Steve M]

Any idea of what the function of these fuel rail covers are? I've seen some gen V's with the on and some, without.

Same question - I was curious if those were just for shipping purposes, or if they are intended to insulate the fuel rails from the additional heat of that engine combo.

[Gen5snake]

Any idea of what the function of these fuel rail covers are? I've seen some gen V's with the on and some, without.

44345

My guess is insulation to keep the fuel cool.

[Scot@Prefix]

My guess is insulation to keep the fuel cool.

They are there to help with fuel injector noise, the later replacements are much larger foam pieces that cover the whole area.

[SLP]

Thanks for the reply. Good to know I can run without them. I don't seem to mind the noise and like the look of the bare rails.

[Ghoust]

Great to see the progress of the motor here. I just got mine back and you can't wipe the grin off of my face. It's one of the few things that get me happy in these crazy times.

[slowhatch]

Figured the motor and trans mounts could use a replacement after 7 years...

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01043/20200627_141332_zpsrcdwptsj.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01043/20200627_141332_zpsrcdwptsj.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01043/20200627_141342_zpssvrubqvt.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01043/20200627_141342_zpssvrubqvt.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01043/20200627_141050_zpswxblllhp.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01043/20200627_141050_zpswxblllhp.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01043/20200627_141111_zpstxqkrzzx.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01043/20200627_141111_zpstxqkrzzx.jpg.html)

New gaskets for 3-2 collectors and j-pipes;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01043/20200627_142002_zpsgkat9wic.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01043/20200627_142002_zpsgkat9wic.jpg.html)

[slowhatch]

Yesterday, as promised, Morgan freed up to return the heart back to the beast. All new hardware was used, all exhaust mating surfaces gone over, and we went over the thermal wrapping of a lot of items (that had previously been addressed during the last HC install).

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01044/20200706_121558_zpsebmpn797.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01044/20200706_121558_zpsebmpn797.jpg.html)

New motor mounts installed;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01044/20200706_121611_zpsicrjt4m6.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01044/20200706_121611_zpsicrjt4m6.jpg.html)

Old mounts;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01044/20200706_122019_zpskpekwntn.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01044/20200706_122019_zpskpekwntn.jpg.html)

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01044/20200706_122145_zpstlukulbd.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01044/20200706_122145_zpstlukulbd.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01044/20200706_122330_zpssb5ipbjw.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01044/20200706_122330_zpssb5ipbjw.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01044/20200706_122619_zpswpknzvpk.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01044/20200706_122619_zpswpknzvpk.jpg.html)

Can we please not debate the Belanger pickle for 30 pages, pretty please. I left mine in;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01044/20200706_122558_zpsvawcomtq.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01044/20200706_122558_zpsvawcomtq.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01044/20200706_123020_zpsqx4cpqru.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01044/20200706_123020_zpsqx4cpqru.jpg.html)

New oil cooler and lines were installed. OEM lines were used. I thought upgraded lines came with the kit from Prefix, but that was a wrong assumption. By the time I realized my oversight Morgan was dropping the motor in and I was left to use what VE had in stock--oem lines it is.

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01044/20200706_123210_zpszgtnuvxc.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01044/20200706_123210_zpszgtnuvxc.jpg.html)

[slowhatch]

512ci left the bay, and 550ci came back;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01045/IMG-20200706-WA0001_zpsy9deyfjm.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01045/IMG-20200706-WA0001_zpsy9deyfjm.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01045/IMG-20200706-WA0003_zpswhinomqi.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01045/IMG-20200706-WA0003_zpswhinomqi.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01045/IMG-20200706-WA0002_zpss4y6ofcs.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01045/IMG-20200706-WA0002_zpss4y6ofcs.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01045/IMG-20200706-WA0000_zpsi3gkiffl.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01045/IMG-20200706-WA0000_zpsi3gkiffl.jpg.html)
https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01046/IMG_20200706_142441_zpsypghulyn.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01046/IMG_20200706_142441_zpsypghulyn.jpg.html)

Motor is in :car-smiley-003:

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01045/IMG_20200706_142442_zpsgtj0ay3c.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01045/IMG_20200706_142442_zpsgtj0ay3c.jpg.html)

Clutch back in;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01045/IMG_20200706_142443_zps6xeb5vfu.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01045/IMG_20200706_142443_zps6xeb5vfu.jpg.html)

Trans and new mount back in;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01045/IMG_20200706_142445_zpsylufgqva.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01045/IMG_20200706_142445_zpsylufgqva.jpg.html)

Driveshaft re-installed, and aero panel back on;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01045/IMG_20200706_142446_zpsxfcbcm9f.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01045/IMG_20200706_142446_zpsxfcbcm9f.jpg.html)

Since the oem clutch is almost new I decided to skip any upgrades at the moment (that and there is no real reason to upgrade at my power level unless I want to go drag racing). I haven't been traveling to Mexico as often as I did back in my heydays, so the transmission is still in one piece. When I undoubtedly break something in the trans again (shift pads, blockers, synchors, etc), I will upgrade components in the trans and do an nth moto clutch.

[slowhatch]

I firmly believe Morgan can do this stuff blindfolded at this point;

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01045/IMG_20200706_152716_zpszkyrkiwv.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01045/IMG_20200706_152716_zpszkyrkiwv.jpg.html)

By the end of the day yesterday the car was down on the ground, everything buttoned up, exhaust was on, and fluids filled.

https://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01046/IMG_20200706_162643_zpskptxvgmd.jpg (https://s240.photobucket.com/user/alexkorovin01/media/alexkorovin01046/IMG_20200706_162643_zpskptxvgmd.jpg.html)

[slowhatch]

First fire :icon_devil: :icon_devil: :icon_devil: :icon_devil: :icon_devil:



https://youtu.be/MnWbnmlFSO0

[slowhatch]

Everything back together. Solid idle, great oil pressure, car is ready for a shakedown drive to check for leaks, etc. Can't wait to pick her up, I'm like a kid on Christmas morning :cool:


https://youtu.be/dTdQDsjqpS8

[MoHaWk2003]

Been watching your rebuild process on Instagram. Glad to see the engine back in and the car running again. Can't wait to see more pics and videos! Makes me wish I lived in Houston and had such competent and professional Viper techs.

[Loud]

Great to see the car back together. Congrats!

Are you running a full belanger system? Cats or no cats? Sounds fierce.

[slowhatch]

Great to see the car back together. Congrats!

Are you running a full belanger system? Cats or no cats? Sounds fierce.

Belanger Longtubes, Catless Midpipes, and Corsa 3" Catback

[Space Truckin]

Congrats...such a sick sound...woo hoo :dude3:

[ViperNC]

Impressive! We look forward to your first drive video!

[srtoad4]

Could listen to that sound all day!

[Whitey]

First fire :icon_devil: :icon_devil: :icon_devil: :icon_devil: :icon_devil:



https://youtu.be/MnWbnmlFSO0

When you see the body of a car and door shake at idle, its safe to assume big bump stick! .......cuz RACECAR! Congrats and enjoy.

[Hamrhead]

Damn that sounds so good. I want!


Hope this works out well for you! Anxious for your next Vid!

[serpent]

Cant wait for more vids, also can you get it on the dyno? We need more 9L Extreme cars dynoed.

[slowhatch]

Appreciate all the kind words!

Yes I will get the car on the dyno at some point in the future. It will be the same dyno that was used when this car was tested on its previous 2 setups (first bolt-ons, then H/C). I thought it would be appreciated by most to see the deltas on the same dyno between those 3 curves. I will wait to put some mileage on the motor first, and for atmospheric conditions to get as close as possible to the previous runs--which likely means waiting until the fall.

[CNU_Physics]

That will be a good test to get a rough estimate of drivetrain losses, since you know exactly what the engine makes.

[Arizona Vipers]

That will be a good test to get a rough estimate of drivetrain losses, since you know exactly what the engine makes.

Different days, different dyno's, different conditions etc. But yeah, will be interesting....

[Whiskey]

Congrats. 🍾. Enjoy it

I always say Miles = Smiles!!!!

[Jack B]

I may have missed the post, but, what are the details on the oil cooler?

[1.8t]

Any initial driving impressions compared to your old setup? I know you’re still breaking her in, but curious what differences you note between setups during this process.

[slowhatch]

I'll give you the guys the 411 on the 9LX, but before that, let me drop one little nugget of info that may save someone here some frustration and time. This little tidbit delayed me from picking up the car from Tuesday down to Friday of last week. When I bought fresh motor mounts for the car from an online mopar parts dealer, I ordered qty 2 of PN# 05038667AB--which are the OEM left AND ride side engine mounts for the Gen 5. They are identical side to side. What follows is what can only be described as target fixation--focusing so much on the perceived problem that awareness of everything else diminishes.

When the mounts arrived it was blatantly obvious that the mount on the left was missing the dust cover. I was pissed off, because the mounts had come merely days before the motor arrived, been delayed to ship by over 2 weeks, and I knew I would have no recourse with the vendor in time for me not to delay engine install. I looked over the mount and the stamped PN# and made absolutely damn sure it was the same as the mount on the right, and that it was just the cover that was missing, and not that the two mounts were different. I decided we would just re-use the dust cover off of one of my existing mounts, no big deal.

https://driveviper.com/forums/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fi240.photobucket.com%2 Falbums%2Fff78%2Falexkorovin01%2Falexkorovin01043% 2F20200627_141332_zpsrcdwptsj.jpg

Anyone with a pair of eyes (except me apparently), would also notice that the threaded stud is of different length on both mounts, and one having a stepped OD and not being threaded all the way to knurling. Neither I nor Morgan spotted this quite obvious difference as we were too focused on the damn dust cover, and installed both of the mounts. Since Morgan likes to get the engine settled with the exhaust installed before he torques down the mounts, we didn't realize our oversight until the motor and exhaust was all the way in. Of course this happened when you went to torque both mounts down;

https://oi240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01048/fail%201_zpsadhftpus.jpg

Ok, feeling a bit perplexed we decided some mix-up had occured with parts and we somehow got the wrong mount. So we ordered another one, same PN#, overnight. The mount comes the next day, and its the exact same one with the longer unthreaded stud. Both of the OEM mounts that came off my car are identical to the LEFT mount, with the shorter stud, so we knew that was the correct mount. We scrambled, again, to find another dealer with them in stock, and this time, made the parts guys send us pictures of the mount before they shipped. They were able to fish one out of inventory that had the correct shorter stud. We ordered it again, overnight, and it came in last Friday, the car was buttoned up, and I was a happy camper in the end.

In closing, we have no idea why 2 different length and style studs are installed on the exact same PN#, but be cognizant of this if you replace your mounts. Either the vendor screwed up and put the wrong studs in a batch of mounts that went out to Dodge, or, there is some part sharing going on, and some mounts (with stud designed for another car), are being incorrectly labeled with GEN 5 part numbers.

https://oi240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01048/fail%202_zpsmkx6hil6.jpg

[slowhatch]

Picked her up last friday.

Here were my impressions pulling out of the parking lot;


https://youtu.be/CuQAHGZCgHk

[1.8t]

^ that’s awesome! Having come from the cam’ed LS world, parking lot surge became infuriating. Yes I could drive around it, but I found myself becoming aggravated that I had too. Looking forward to your next vids!

[slowhatch]

In general as I stated in the video above, initially I was really happy the car drove in a predictable, familiar manner. I didn't feel like I was making a sacrifice--or have to make excuses for--the car making the power and sound that I desired. It is different from the Stage II setup, it takes a mental adjustment to drive the car smoothly, in the same way the Stage II did when I first got it. After a week on Stage II it was all muscle memory and you know exactly how much throttle is needed on in-gear tip-in, or from a dead start, or blipping, etc, to make everything perfectly smooth. If you don't have throttle control or cant be delicate in certain scenarios then you will for sure knuck and buck the car around. There seems to be more throttle response (than stage 2), and the rotating assembly feels lighter, when I free rev the car it seems to gather RPM with a snappiness that wasn't present before. From a dead stop you can launch the car with no throttle, or you can give it 1000-1200rpm and slip it out gently, its extremely smooth. If you get the car into first gear, at low rpm (1000-1300), come off throttle, and come back on, this is where you need to have a gentle touch. Theres a tendency here for the car to "jump or buck" right at the onset of acceleration if you're not smooth coming on power. I literally give it the least amount of throttle my foot can dish out and she smoothly returns to picking up speed--and you can instantly feed it more to accelerate at will. You can avoid this altogether if you're the type of person that always rides the clutch below 1500 rpm--but my driving style is very conservative with clutch slip. The car has no issues lugging around at low rpm in higher gears, I have the tall 6th gear (0.50), and can lug this thing down to 1000rpm and accelerate smoothly. The only real difference (aside from power) is the idle-1500rpm range, everything else feels exactly like stock. Car holds a nice lopey idle around 900ish rpm. Cold start is about 1050rpm.

The 9LX makes the car sound different, I don't mean just in LSA on the cam for chop, I mean overall tone, at all rpm, it just sounds different. It sounds chunkier, meatier, like it has more bass. It sounds absolutely bananas wide open at high rpm, I know I frequently engage in hyperbole, but it really does sound like an old warbird when the car flys by you. Check out the video below for idle, cold start (internal/external), flyby's, and 60-180mph pull at the end. I drug my ass out of bed at 7am on Sunday morning to catch the lowest temperatures of the day (82F). I've been wanting to experience the car at full power (timing), but we are months away from having that happen here (needs to be at least 15F cooler). IATs were around 87-88 and it felt like a different car from the daytime hits I've been making on Fri/Sat (at around 105*F IAT). On friday/sat when I was making hits it felt as fast as my old stage II setup did when it was 60 deg outside. On sunday morning with 20F lower ambient it felt absolutely BRUTAL for an NA car. Relentless off the hit and just keeps piling it on. The first hit I literally sat on the limiter doing a rolling burnout in 2nd gear on R888Rs (tires were cold). I giggled like a school girl in there. Second hit she's at the limit of adhesion in 2nd, and it was the fastest I've ever been in the car, ever. I'm not a top speed guy, it feels strangely morbid for me to "sit and think" while I accelerate at triple digits so I rarely ever come out of 4th gear on the street (unless we are door to door with a combatant in Mexico on a tollway or the like). I just couldn't believe how fast I got up to those speeds now, I saw an indicated 179 and let off, and was like holy shit, is this real life? :dropdev:


https://youtu.be/CcAedZdqd0E


Been making any excuses to go for a drive even in this 100+F degree swamp ass weather, and have put about 200 miles on the car over the weekend. I still need more seat time for me to be as telepathic with it as I had become with the Stage II, but we are becoming acquainted. Ask me any questions you guys want about the kit and we can chat.

[Gen5snake]

Picked her up last friday.

Here were my impressions pulling out of the parking lot;


https://youtu.be/CuQAHGZCgHk

I totally understand what you're saying about having a cam that surges...bucking totally ruins it for me and I'd personally rather have less power and a stock smooth low rpm driving experience. Hope this combo stays together for you...nothing more frustrating than throwing money in the toilette....been there, done that.

[Schen]

Here comes the pain and blue shorts to match!

That thing sounds unreal, when I went for ride in Andy's TA at NVE2 I couldn't get over how LOUD his car was. The Gen V wakes up so much when you start swapping a few things.

Sneaky is back!

--RS

[slowhatch]

Here comes the pain and blue shorts to match!

That thing sounds unreal, when I went for ride in Andy's TA at NVE2 I couldn't get over how LOUD his car was. The Gen V wakes up so much when you start swapping a few things.

Sneaky is back!

--RS

That VE titanium exhaust that he had on his Stage II setup could wake the dead. Personally I thought it sounded amazing, but it droned as much as the Belangers, if not worse.

Its crazy to think I have the "quietest" catback on the car right now (Corsas). I can't imagine how ear-bleedingly loud it would be with the Ti or Belanger catback.

[Hamrhead]

https://youtu.be/CcAedZdqd0E



WOW!!

The Lope! The Sound at WOT!! Congrats!

Extremely doubtful being as I just don't drive it enough to justify the $$(Still have 1/2 tank of gas from last October!), but IF I end up doing something silly to my Viper, it's officially your fault.

[USAFPILOT]

sounds bad ass! when is going up for sale?! hehe

[srtoad4]

Sounds brutal!

[ViperNC]

That is a familiar note at start up and full throttle! Takes a little getting used to the extra power, but I'm certain you'll acclimate quickly. I agree with you on drivability. Mine is easy as you describe and brutal when you want it to be. Basically a laugh riot on 4 wheels. Congrats and have fun!

[cashcorn]

Thanks for sharing your journey! Are you running the stock 5th gear? i'm wondering if you could hit 180 in the 1/2 mi from a 40mph roll(i've done 163 with belanger, hiflows & hptune). Sounds so badass..

[slowhatch]

sounds bad ass! when is going up for sale?! hehe

https://media1.tenor.com/images/263600d6b36f087e94cf17573f40f10c/tenor.gif?itemid=5163408


Basically a laugh riot on 4 wheels. Congrats and have fun!

:devilish:


Thanks for sharing your journey! Are you running the stock 5th gear? i'm wondering if you could hit 180 in the 1/2 mi from a 40mph roll(i've done 163 with belanger, hiflows & hptune). Sounds so badass..

Running the 0.796 5th gear out of the 2010 ACR.

No clue on the 1/2 mile from a roll... thats a first I've heard of that. I've done standing half mile on the old setup at 168mph. I would hope this setup goes 175. The TA 1.0 spoiler and 2.0 splitters won't be doing me favors on the big end.

[slowhatch]

https://oi240.photobucket.com/albums/ff78/alexkorovin01/alexkorovin01048/fail%202_zpsmkx6hil6.jpg

I had a chassis mount engineer from FCA reach out to me on social media after seeing my post and offer conclusion on this little mystery. He said the Gen V Viper mount and the current Grand Cherokee/Durango mounts are identical, with the exception of the stud and tuning. He said in his opinion, the supplier installed the Grand Cherokee stud on the viper mount.

Just FYI for you all.

[cashcorn]

(Running the 0.796 5th gear out of the 2010 ACR.) nice mod.. was that your choice? I've got the stock 0.77 5th, it still pulls good, but it needs the 9LX tq/hp so it doesn't lag. Do you have any lag between 4th & 5th gear? so.. jealous! :)

[slowhatch]

(Running the 0.796 5th gear out of the 2010 ACR.) nice mod.. was that your choice? I've got the stock 0.77 5th, it still pulls good, but it needs the 9LX tq/hp so it doesn't lag. jealous:)

Yes, I wanted the car set up to run strong through the 1/2 mile and stock 5th gear is a disappointment, huge rpm drop between 4-5 shift. Now 5th gear pulls almost like 4th.

When I rebuilt the trans last time I had 5th and 6th changed (the former to the shortest, the latter to the longest, available).

[Jack B]

Yes, I wanted the car set up to run strong through the 1/2 mile and stock 5th gear is a disappointment, huge rpm drop between 4-5 shift. Now 5th gear pulls almost like 4th.

When I rebuilt the trans last time I had 5th and 6th changed (the former to the shortest, the latter to the longest, available).

I did the same with 5/6. I also changed to the 2.66 1st gear, vs the G5, 2.26 1st gear.

[1.8t]

Slowhatch, random question...the lifter you lost which initiated the switch to the 9L, was it one of these low travel lifters shown in the Prefix Stage 2 kit? For some reason I assumed it was the factory lifter which was re-used and I was a bit surprised to see link bar lifters (at least as depicted) as part of the Stage 2 package.

https://store.prefix.com/products/prefix-gen-v-viper-stage-ii-kit

[Jack B]

I had one of the first Stage2 kits and they used after-market lifters.

[slowhatch]

Slowhatch, random question...the lifter you lost which initiated the switch to the 9L, was it one of these low travel lifters shown in the Prefix Stage 2 kit? For some reason I assumed it was the factory lifter which was re-used and I was a bit surprised to see link bar lifters (at least as depicted) as part of the Stage 2 package.

https://store.prefix.com/products/prefix-gen-v-viper-stage-ii-kit


I had one of the first Stage2 kits and they used after-market lifters.

Bingo, Jack's got it.

I've mentioned earlier that my kit was a very early stage 2 kit it did not use the delphi lifters. It was a Johnson I believe, don't quite remember. It was also NOT a link bar, it was a dogbone style like this;

https://musclecardiy.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/428.jpg

[slowhatch]

I did the same with 5/6. I also changed to the 2.66 1st gear, vs the G5, 2.26 1st gear.

I'm jealous of that 1st gear!! That would be tremendous at the dragstrip, finally be able to 60 foot the thing properly.

[CNU_Physics]

Im sure I missed it somewhere in the thread. Is this on HPTuners now or is it using another Arrow PCM?

I'm impressed it hooks in 2nd gear with all that power...jesus lol.

[slowhatch]

Im sure I missed it somewhere in the thread. Is this on HPTuners now or is it using another Arrow PCM?

I'm impressed it hooks in 2nd gear with all that power...jesus lol.

9LX tune on Prefix PCM. There is no more "Arrow", Prefix bought them, it is just Prefix.

[slowhatch]

Speakers or headphones required :dude3:


https://youtu.be/Olo5srY20ac

[Jack B]

Im sure I missed it somewhere in the thread. Is this on HPTuners now or is it using another Arrow PCM?

I'm impressed it hooks in 2nd gear with all that power...jesus lol.

Not on all tires and all road surfaces. Alex can chime in, but, the Toyo's are needed with the 9L.

[ViperNC]

Speakers or headphones required :dude3:


https://youtu.be/Olo5srY20ac

9L music is awesome. What's funny about that video: Super car, Super car, Super car, Super car, Super car..... PRIUS. :lol2:

[Whiskey]

Sounds good OP! Let her stretch her legs!

[slowhatch]

9L music is awesome. What's funny about that video: Super car, Super car, Super car, Super car, Super car..... PRIUS. :lol2:

You watch your mouth!! Its a manual transmission Insight, a true national treasure :smilielol:, a 3 pedal hybrid


Not on all tires and all road surfaces. Alex can chime in, but, the Toyo's are needed with the 9L.

On cold tires, on concrete, forget it about off the hit from a 60 in 2nd gear with the 9LX. When I warm the tires up right now, on concrete, its a mixed bag. It sorta feathers them off the hit, 80%+ traction through 2nd. My rears are coming up on a year old, I think they have hardened a bit from thermal cycles. I am confident on properly heated, new tires, in warm weather (70F+), the 9LX will hook from a 2nd gear roll on concrete. There is no hope for traction on asphalt.

Heat cycled toyos are nowhere close to the same level of grip. After 2 or 3 track days on the last set I'd be blowing the tires off in 2nd gear back on my old Stage 2 setup. On fresh toyos, Stage 2 hooked like glue from a 60.

[slowhatch]

Put a few videos together of the 9.0L build process, from start to finish;


https://youtu.be/_eyttq_Rppk


https://youtu.be/tmixy_YuswU


https://youtu.be/nohw75Z0_gY


https://youtu.be/0abp--1Cbz4


https://youtu.be/WwXSObcZFmo

[Simms]

Great videos with real life info.

[ViperNC]

I could not agree more with you about NA vs. Turbos. Well stated.

[Gen5snake]

Thanks for putting the time and effort in the videos....helping me get through the COVID blues. I too totally agree with your assessment of forced induction....because I've been there done that.

[TheMadMachinist]

What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[slowhatch]

Appreciate the kind words!

Even though the video editing is 3rd grader level (I'll stick to my day job) it still takes FOREVER to put it together, so I appreciate you guys watching and getting something out of it!

[Gen5snake]

Appreciate the kind words!

Even though the video editing is 3rd grader level (I'll stick to my day job) it still takes FOREVER to put it together, so I appreciate you guys watching and getting something out of it!

That's the first thing that came to my mind. I was thinking to myself how horrible the editing was...I almost couldn't bare watching them. LOL Give me a break....editing was perfect. I wouldn't have the patience for all that. Keep them coming!!

[stradman]

Nice one mate! You'll love your 9.0. Due to Covid haven't gotten much seat time on track in mine over the last 4 months but hope to get some time in the next couple of months. Yeah people don't always quite understand how
long it does take to put these videos together. However I find it therapeutic myself doing these videos! Keep it up :dude3:

[slowhatch]

Ran into a few 1000cc bikes...


https://youtu.be/y8kciSrW1dg

[Gen5snake]

Nice...already putting her through her paces. I see there's plenty of gravy on the highway around your way. My way of saying lot's of spirited like minded competitive enthusiasts roaming around. Don't see too much of that on the CT highways anymore.

[13COBRA]

Nice...already putting her through her paces. I see there's plenty of gravy on the highway around your way. My way of saying lot's of spirited like minded competitive enthusiasts roaming around. Don't see too much of that on the CT highways anymore.

Houston is like the exotic/power car hub of the USA. It's amazing.

[Scott_in_fl]

Crazy how hard the Viper keeps pulling up top.

[Fulltilt]

60-130mph with 9L please.

[slowhatch]

60-130mph with 9L please.

When conditions get better. I've raced 3-4 cars that run in the 5s and pulled them, so its in the 5s somewhere.

Ran a VF supercharged R8 the other night that runs high 9s like clockwork, runs a 5.2 60-130, and 4.5 100-200kph and walked him.

[SRT BILL]

When conditions get better. I've raced 3-4 cars that run in the 5s and pulled them, so its in the 5s somewhere.

Ran a VF supercharged R8 the other night that runs high 9s like clockwork, runs a 5.2 60-130, and 4.5 100-200kph and walked him.

You may have to change the name on your license plate to HEART BREAKER. Great posts!

[Simms]

So impressive for all motor. My buddy's comp coupe with 9L pulls away from me on straights like I missed a shift.

[Fulltilt]

When conditions get better. I've raced 3-4 cars that run in the 5s and pulled them, so its in the 5s somewhere.

Ran a VF supercharged R8 the other night that runs high 9s like clockwork, runs a 5.2 60-130, and 4.5 100-200kph and walked him.

Damn, you might be in the 4.9 range then. That's almost hard to comprehend for a N/A car. Every time I watch one of your videos I start looking at headers/computer setup. I've been back and forth on which header/exhaust combo I want to go with. You're car is perfection.

[slowhatch]

Damn, you might be in the 4.9 range then. That's almost hard to comprehend for a N/A car. Every time I watch one of your videos I start looking at headers/computer setup. I've been back and forth on which header/exhaust combo I want to go with. You're car is perfection.

My take on this is that I'm not in the 4s, but I can end up in front of cars in the mid to low 5s on the street.

When these guys post the hero pass 60-130 numbers they always "run through the gate" so-to-speak. They accelerate from lower mph to make sure the car is at peak acceleration (or as close to as the powerband/gearing allows) when the car moves through through the start line (60mph). This assures they get the lowest possible ET point to point. They don't have this advantage against me on the street. We both start from an instantaneous mph, and since 99% of the cars in my league are forced induction it takes time for them to ramp into peak acceleration off the hit. In short, the time for me to ramp into peak acceleration off the hit is shorter, so gives me those precious tenths of a second to cover my (usual) power deficit.

I believe given sea level DA, a drag radial, and the 2 shifts I need, my 60-130 will be in the mid 5s (which is positively INSANE for a pump gas, full weight, NA street car).

[Nth Moto]

My take on this is that I'm not in the 4s, but I can end up in front of cars in the mid to low 5s on the street.

When these guys post the hero pass 60-130 numbers they always "run through the gate" so-to-speak. They accelerate from lower mph to make sure the car is at peak acceleration (or as close to as the powerband/gearing allows) when the car moves through through the start line (60mph). This assures they get the lowest possible ET point to point. They don't have this advantage against me on the street. We both start from an instantaneous mph, and since 99% of the cars in my league are forced induction it takes time for them to ramp into peak acceleration off the hit. In short, the time for me to ramp into peak acceleration off the hit is shorter, so gives me those precious tenths of a second to cover my (usual) power deficit.

I believe given sea level DA, a drag radial, and the 2 shifts I need, my 60-130 will be in the mid 5s (which is positively INSANE for a pump gas, full weight, NA street car).

Ah, a man after my own heart with the realization of what actually happens on the street. Viper's punch above their weight because they actually LEAVE from a static speed, typically with consistency also. It's like have a car that does 1.3 60 ft's on the street on any surface compared to one that can go 1.2's if the stars all align.

I bet you're in the mid 5's in good air; back when Jeff's car was the NA setup it went a 5.41 60-130 on the street (from like 55) making 740 whp, but with a sequential in just "normal" DA. You know how much these cars love some good air!

Keep having fun and taking names!

[Whiskey]

Ran into a few 1000cc bikes...


https://youtu.be/y8kciSrW1dg

Well done Sir! I'm a bit surprised how well it did against the liter bikes. I know NA in my Gen2 and 3 cars I couldn't bear them until I got some boost. It goes to show how good these Gen4/5 engines can be.

[slowhatch]

Ah, a man after my own heart with the realization of what actually happens on the street. Viper's punch above their weight because they actually LEAVE from a static speed, typically with consistency also. It's like have a car that does 1.3 60 ft's on the street on any surface compared to one that can go 1.2's if the stars all align.

I bet you're in the mid 5's in good air; back when Jeff's car was the NA setup it went a 5.41 60-130 on the street (from like 55) making 740 whp, but with a sequential in just "normal" DA. You know how much these cars love some good air!

Keep having fun and taking names!

Thanks Aaron! Hopefully in the fall I can grab a mid/upper 5 sec pass on Draggy. Jeff's car was rollin!

- - - Updated - - -

A few recent hits to show you guys how a 9L stacks up...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0jn2Rzbjo4

[Frostydog]

So.....I’m new to the forum and starting the process of looking for my first snake. I have just completed this entire thread and have to say I’m completely and utterly inspired and dead set on a viper. It seems like these cars provide a different level of enjoyment you cannot get out of the run-of-the-mill sports/super car. Slowhatch, excellent thread and looking forward to learning even more from you and everyone else here in the time to come. Great job and keep it up!

[Gen5snake]

Slowhatch - what camera setup are you using these days?

[slowhatch]

So.....I’m new to the forum and starting the process of looking for my first snake. I have just completed this entire thread and have to say I’m completely and utterly inspired and dead set on a viper. It seems like these cars provide a different level of enjoyment you cannot get out of the run-of-the-mill sports/super car. Slowhatch, excellent thread and looking forward to learning even more from you and everyone else here in the time to come. Great job and keep it up!

Much appreciated! :drive:


Slowhatch - what camera setup are you using these days?

Just an old Gopro 6 Black

[slowhatch]

Here's some perspective of how loud (and amazing sounding) this setup really is;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OANLAIrsvSw

[slowhatch]

Here is the only race I had in mind when I built my car... :p0257:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFr5EIwQFj0

[chris1992]

Here is the only race I had in mind when I built my car... :p0257:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFr5EIwQFj0

I’ve been waiting to see you race a stock 720s! I knew it would be close, but I was hoping you’d edge him out.

Great race nonetheless! The 720s is such a wicked car, so I’m sure you are thrilled to hang right on the side of one.

[USAFPILOT]

Close enough for me! But I guess you could spray it a little for the win. I didn't expect that from the AMG...impressive.

[slowhatch]

Close enough for me! But I guess you could spray it a little for the win. I didn't expect that from the AMG...impressive.

AMG is a beast. The owner and I go way back, we've raced a dozen times over the years, each of us having different setups (I've ran him FBO, then H/C, and now 9L). He's been through 3 turbo upgrades on that car, and at each stage we'd run, and he'd end up either behind or to the side of me. It was great to see him finally get the W, and get his car to a place he's always wanted--you can tell he was elated from his in-car video haha!

[Whiskey]

Good runs! The Viper's hit is brutal and it shows how you just leap out on everyone. They have to work pretty hard to chase you down.

[pdv25]

Here is the only race I had in mind when I built my car... :p0257:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFr5EIwQFj0

Very impressive my boy!!! I'm curious to see what you do 60-130. Congrats on the build.

[Arizona Vipers]

Nice shifting brother!!! When are you getting a sequential to help level the playing field a bit hehe???? :dude3:

[SRT_BluByU]

Those 720s are stupid fast..

[Snakebit10]

No surprises in this video. 9L did great against the stock 720S and the Merc. Gave. the Merc fits. That DME 720S tho....Great video.

[slowhatch]

Nice shifting brother!!! When are you getting a sequential to help level the playing field a bit hehe???? :dude3:

Haha you know I'd rather walk!

- - - Updated - - -


https://youtu.be/_dF6Fmh4btg

[SRT_BluByU]

Have ya seen this yet?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/stroked-dodge-viper-idles-like-a-muscle-car-sounds-like-a-lamborghini-at-rpm-148435.html

[slowhatch]

Have ya seen this yet?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/stroked-dodge-viper-idles-like-a-muscle-car-sounds-like-a-lamborghini-at-rpm-148435.html

Haha yeah I had a few people send it to me, C-list celebrity status achieved.

They got my redline wrong though, they shorted me 300rpm ;)

[Gen5snake]

Blue Fellow

[StrokerAce]

With that much power do you think the car would be faster with less rear gear so you could wind it out longer?

[slowhatch]

With that much power do you think the car would be faster with less rear gear so you could wind it out longer?

It would be slower for sure if you reduce wheel torque with taller gearing. Honestly, I think the gearing is absolutely perfect as is, it's geared just right for a standing 1/2 mile.

[slowhatch]

Here is a break my trans compilation for you chaps :)


https://youtu.be/PkgHcGo4oIo

[StrokerAce]

It would be slower for sure if you reduce wheel torque with taller gearing. Honestly, I think the gearing is absolutely perfect as is, it's geared just right for a standing 1/2 mile.

Got ya. Gear sets for whatever racings it's intended for. My experience with it is certain setups, for whatever intended purpose, the most rear gear didn't always return the fastest result.

My Camaro is around 730-750 crank hp and with 3.73 gears I am thinking of backing down but the S60 gear sets are rare for anything under 3.55.

Love your car.

[Vipes]

Nice channel, just subscribed. I enjoyed the TT, NA video.