2017 Gen V s Silence is golden

[Angleiron]

So...

Those of you who have your 2017 cars...are you experiencing any oil use issues or has there been any engine issues (failures)? Anyone have their car modded, and when the engine work was being done any issues were found (i.e bearing wear, etc.)?

[Martin2000GTS]

Calvo in Texas says he already had 2 2017's with bad bearings. one with 120 miles and one with just over 900 miles. Ehh.

[serpent]

Lol, Dodge quality.

I still want a Gen V but would not touch any other dodge.

[sadil]

Still have to do my oil sample. Barely any miles on it so far.

[swexlin]

Lol, Dodge quality.

I still want a Gen V but would not touch any other dodge.

For perspective, I have owned many Dodge products over the years (including an SRT8 Charger, 2003 Viper, Dart, Neon and now on my 4th Ram). My current Ram I've had 1 year on Monday, and almost 13,000 miles (more than my Viper), and not ONE single issue. Not one, no rattles, no nothing. Drive and looks perfect.

My 2004 Ram Cummins left me stranded twice - once for a CP3 failure, and once for a shredded belt (2 months after I bought the truck new). Other than that, all the other vehicles have been very reliable.

Out of all the Mopars I've owned over the last 20 years, my current Gen 5 has had the most recalls, repairs, and the poorest general build quality. There I said it - flame suit on.

[BJG32]

How this isn't fixed after 5 YEARS is beyond me...


23277
23278

[swexlin]

That doesn't look good. Question for those who know more than me (which is everyone.....!) Could that be just "normal" wear for these cars, and doesn't necessarily mean it can or will fail? Or is that wishful thinking?

[BJG32]

No. Cars with 300k miles have better looking bearings than this.

It's funny to see the people that have been in denial go through the panic stage now on facebook. Same guys fighting us on the issue saying we are wearing tin foil hats blah blah blah.

I accepted a rebuild A LONG time ago. $10k just set aside to piss away on something I shouldn't have to do.

[swexlin]

Thanks Ben. Appreciate the honesty. I guess it's like someone with heart disease - it's really not a matter of if, but when. Depending on mileage and usage. Ugh.

[BJG32]

If Antonio is not exaggerating (I don't think he is) 97% of Gen 5 Vipers have this issue..... It's 2017 and the engines STILL suck. So warranty is not good enough at this point ....... a new engine is not a permanent fix. I am not sure what Calvo's Gen 5 sample size is but it appears almost all engines regardless of year are destined to fail.

If my engine goes and warranty does cover it, I'd demand a rebuild at arrow and not another engine. It's cheaper and safer win/win for FCA and Me.

Unfortunately I don't know where my PCM puts me on the warranty issue.

[bluesrt]

I don't get how boudrant vipers don't have a problem. strange stuff at the least

[BJG32]

I don't get how boudrant vipers don't have a problem. strange stuff at the least

They got the good 3% of cars. :)


For me it really says a lot about how much I like the car. Any other car I would of cut my loses and ditched months ago. I pretty much know this one is going to fail and I still don't have the urge to sell. BUT it definitly helps that I bought it brand new $30k below MSRP... I feel like I have some room to play with in a worst case scenario.

[bluesrt]

bigtime, when it goes,if it does/ time for the nasty arrow heads n cam!

[BJG32]

bigtime, when it goes,if it does/ time for the nasty arrow heads n cam!

That's the plan actually! Just clean it up and pop the popcorn on this issue...

[socal]

If someone was going to have a tuner like Calvo freshen the bottom end anyway, could they just have a dealer do the disassembly and then work out a deal with Dodge to get something if the bearings turned out to be prematurely worn? Or do you need a complete failure to have a claim?

[GTS21]

A bit off topic, but for us folks waiting to receive 2017s, is there a way to extend the warranty at initial purchase so we have a couple extra years of piece of mind?

[Bruce H.]

Have any track rats had engine failures? Curious because I'm not aware of any. Only heard of one guy at the track who didn't have any oil in his engine.

[ACRucrazy]

Have any track rats had engine failures? Curious because I'm not aware of any. Only heard of one guy at the track who didn't have any oil in his engine.

Ralph... at Viper Rendezvous in 2015. :)

[Bruce H.]

Ralph... at Viper Rendezvous in 2015. :)

Ah yes, I did hear about that one.

[BJG32]

A bit off topic, but for us folks waiting to receive 2017s, is there a way to extend the warranty at initial purchase so we have a couple extra years of piece of mind?

Yes sir. you can extend your warranty up to one year past your purchase date. Contact member ClayR for the best deal. Zellner motors is a sponsor. Link on the sponsors page.

[BJG32]

If someone was going to have a tuner like Calvo freshen the bottom end anyway, could they just have a dealer do the disassembly and then work out a deal with Dodge to get something if the bearings turned out to be prematurely worn? Or do you need a complete failure to have a claim?

I think once he opens it you just pay him to clean it up at that point. He's doing work that will void your warranty anyway.... If you try and work a deal with dodge 100% chance your car sits idle in his shop for months while it gets worked out. He's not going to want it taking up space.

I don't think you have a chance of getting dodge to do anything with non FCA shop....well...maybe arrow.

[dethred]

If Antonio is not exaggerating (I don't think he is) 97% of Gen 5 Vipers have this issue..... It's 2017 and the engines STILL suck. So warranty is not good enough at this point ....... a new engine is not a permanent fix. I am not sure what Calvo's Gen 5 sample size is but it appears almost all engines regardless of year are destined to fail.

If my engine goes and warranty does cover it, I'd demand a rebuild at arrow and not another engine. It's cheaper and safer win/win for FCA and Me.

Unfortunately I don't know where my PCM puts me on the warranty issue.

Is exaggerating, or at least tossing out an estimate, unless he's torn down at least 100 Gen 5 motors. Can't get 97% (prime number) without a sample size of at least 100. ;-)

[swexlin]

If he's done 30, and 29 were bad, that's 96.66%, so rounded to 97.

[dethred]

If Antonio is not exaggerating (I don't think he is) 97% of Gen 5 Vipers have this issue..... It's 2017 and the engines STILL suck. So warranty is not good enough at this point ....... a new engine is not a permanent fix. I am not sure what Calvo's Gen 5 sample size is but it appears almost all engines regardless of year are destined to fail.

If my engine goes and warranty does cover it, I'd demand a rebuild at arrow and not another engine. It's cheaper and safer win/win for FCA and Me.

Unfortunately I don't know where my PCM puts me on the warranty issue.


If he's done 30, and 29 were bad, that's 96.66%, so rounded to 97.

So "around 97%" would be more accurate? I am being picky, but I am always skeptical of absolutes, especially with such claims. Not doubting him that the percentage is around that number, or in the 90% range, but specifics and generalities matter.

[SRT_BluByU]

To me those look like new bearing with low miles wearing in.... I'm not an expert. A quick google search for worn engine bearings show stuff that looked far worse and other makes under the search new engine bearing wear turned up pix similar to these.. would love to hear SRTs comments. Alas no more engineering chat session.. major bummmer

[bluesrt]

those bearings are not correct looking,period

[Angleiron]

I asked because it is not too far away that the below will be showing up. My previous Gen II's and my current Gen IV have been trouble free, and it would suck ass to have to deal with what has been going on with the new one.

[uberpube]

To me those look like new bearing with low miles wearing in.... I'm not an expert. A quick google search for worn engine bearings show stuff that looked far worse and other makes under the search new engine bearing wear turned up pix similar to these.. would love to hear SRTs comments. Alas no more engineering chat session.. major bummmer
To me,it looks like improper surface finish on the crankshaft with a slight taper on journal or the bearing bore.

[uberpube]

Lol, Dodge quality.

I still want a Gen V but would not touch any other dodge.

You're missing out on a lot of great product then...

[BJG32]

I asked because it is not too far away that the below will be showing up. My previous Gen II's and my current Gen IV have been trouble free, and it would suck ass to have to deal with what has been going on with the new one.

Welcome to the gen 5 ownership... never drive without a fully charged cell phone!

[ACRucrazy]

i asked because it is not too far away that the below will be showing up. My previous gen ii's and my current gen iv have been trouble free, and it would suck ass to have to deal with what has been going on with the new one.

https://driveviper.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23285&stc=1&d=1487890832

https://driveviper.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23286&stc=1&d=1487890834

love it!

[Lawrenzo]

It's threads like these that keep me on the sideline from getting another Gen V. Yeah, I'm missing out on a lot of potential fun times. But I went through a lot of BS with my 2013 in the short time I owned it:furious:

[ACRSNK]

Sucks to hear that these issues still persist.

[Stealth78]

Sucks to hear that these issues still persist.
You dirty dog......

[cashcorn]

I tend to agree with str_blubyu.. Check your oil level & keep it full! I think it's hard to spin a bearing when the temp is normal.. I wonder how many motors have blown due to low oil levels. just thinking out loud

[ACR Extreme]

I did a lot of research before doing the stage 2 on my GTS-R. It's a process not taken lightly did more homework due to the misinformation on this forum than any other car I have ever purchased.

Spoke to a lot of top notch engine Viper people.

Those pics are from an older car - Calvo is ... well look up the VIN of that cars engine and year - this place spreads poor information and it's a slap in the face to the dealers owners who participate and support this forum. You guys have no idea how lucky you are to have guys who race build special parts to support the community its truly something I have never seen in any other brand.

Not going to type 10 paragraphs to explain how those parts are made and the process of break in but feel free to call some of the real experts.

If there were a real problem would have spent another 1700.00 and swapped for a Gen 4 motor or moth balled my Gen 5 and bought a Gen 4 to be modified.

There are 70 - 80 stage 2 builds and I believe one went bad. The only reason i even come on here anymore is to see what guys are doing to their cars to make them more personal.

Do your own homework and see for yourself.

[BJG32]

I did a lot of research and doing a stage 2 on my GTS-R

Spoke to a lot of top notch engine Viper people.

You guys I 100% promise this is BS.

Those pics are from an older car - Calvo wants to sell parts and sends panic.

Think whatever you wish - those pics are normal I am not going to type 10 paragraphs to explain how those parts are made and the process of break in but feel free to call some of the real experts.

If there were a real problem would have spent another 1700.00 and swapped for a Gen 4 motor or moth balled my Gen 5 and bought a Gen 4 to be modified.

There are 70 - 80 stage 2 builds and I believe one went bad.

Thats a theory i was discussing among friends today. I hope you are right! ...and if so it would l be very damaging to Calvo's reputation. Obviously we all put a lot of weight on his word. Would love to discuss this more with you soon so i can know what you know!

[Alpha acr]

Damn i really thought this issue was solved !
Im on the market for an acr and this is mind bogging :(

So whats the fix for this issue ? A full rebuild using what brand rod bearing ?!

[ACRucrazy]

I did a lot of research before doing the stage 2 on my GTS-R. It's a process not taken lightly did more homework due to the misinformation on this forum than any other car I have ever purchased.

Spoke to a lot of top notch engine Viper people.

Those pics are from an older car - Calvo is ... well look up the VIN of that cars engine and year - this place spreads poor information and it's a slap in the face to the dealers owners who participate and support this forum. You guys have no idea how lucky you are to have guys who race build special parts to support the community its truly something I have never seen in any other brand.

Not going to type 10 paragraphs to explain how those parts are made and the process of break in but feel free to call some of the real experts.

If there were a real problem would have spent another 1700.00 and swapped for a Gen 4 motor or moth balled my Gen 5 and bought a Gen 4 to be modified.

There are 70 - 80 stage 2 builds and I believe one went bad. The only reason i even come on here anymore is to see what guys are doing to their cars to make them more personal.

Do your own homework and see for yourself.

You seem to have the answers. Why not set this thread straight and share them?

[ACR Extreme]

Thanks Doug...thats a theory i was discussing amongst friends today. I hope you are right! ...and if so it would l be very damaging to Calvo's reputation. Obviously we all put a lot of weight on his word. Would love to discuss this more with you soon so i can know what you know!

Ben I have taken a lot of peoples valued time at top places to learn exactly what is going on. They will talk forever it's never been an issue they are 100% honest.

If I thought there was an issue would have simply moth balled the Gen V new engine bought a Gen IV and modified.

Some guys are doing it for peace of mind other are modifying their Gen V - but since you love the brand more than anyone I know - it's really worth talking to the guys who know what's going on.

Mine should be done by end of month - come on by once it hits town and will be more than happy to share what I learned.

Best buying experience one could ever imagine.

[ACR Extreme]

You seem to have the answers. Why not set this thread straight and share them?

You want more go for it.

The metals used break in methods are way beyond my pay grade.

The experts are more than willing to share answer questions and take care of their customers.

[Bmw2nv2000]

Sounds like you need to call and speak wih Calvo about his expert opinion based on what his shop has seen and fixed. Being a gen 5 owner and having the warranty voided due to heavy mods I understand your need to convince yourself that the newer ones are correct, but if reputable shops have seen 16' and 17' cars with toasted bearing then talk is just talk.

[Bmw2nv2000]

This problem is the number one reason I haven't bought a gen 5. Its not about the money for me its 100% about the principal. The reason I have owned so many vipers is the drop dead reliability. Take that away and Im now shopping for a G.

[Snorman]

Have any track rats had engine failures? Curious because I'm not aware of any. Only heard of one guy at the track who didn't have any oil in his engine.
A few weeks ago at Sebring, during the night session, an orange TA blew the engine and I'm told caught on fire somewhere around Bishop.
Luke would maybe know more as he and Gary were out there while I was putting a set of rear pads on my car. Because...you know...waiting until 5-minutes before the night session started was a great freaking time to do that. :witless:
I know that car was sitting in the paddock the next morning.

As for my '17, it's has burned no perceptible oil whatsoever. I've changed the oil 6 times now with ~1700 miles on the car.
S.

[ACR Extreme]

Sounds like you need to call and speak wih Calvo about his expert opinion based on what his shop has seen and fixed. Being a gen 5 owner and having the warranty voided due to heavy mods I understand your need to convince yourself that the newer ones are correct, but if reputable shops have seen 16' and 17' cars with toasted bearing then talk is just talk.

Agree Calvo could have simply made a mistake by the year - did research on 2017 the only reason I opened and posted here was the thread topic.

[7TH_SIGN]

Sucks that we are still having this discussion but the problem is real. The solutions are rather simple

1. Stay stock, drive it until/if it pops, covered under warranty.

2. Mod it, drive it until/if it pops, your rich and can afford a rebuild out of pocket.

3. Sell.

[zee]

There are what...about 3000 gen 5's made in total? Would be interesting to see how many crossed the 10k mark and 20k mile mark? I know Bruce has 20k plus miles with heavy tracking and his has been bullet proof. I also know a few local guys by me that have 20k + miles and no issues. I'm at 10k and running strong with no oil consumption.

[BJG32]

There are what...about 3000 gen 5's made in total? Would be interesting to see how many crossed the 10k mark and 20k mile mark? I know Bruce has 20k plus miles with heavy tracking and his has been bullet proof. I also know a few local guys by me that have 20k + miles and no issues. I'm at 10k and running strong with no oil consumption.

Bullet proof really means nothing until you open the engine up and see what is actually going on.......... but time will tell.

[Bruce H.]

A few weeks ago at Sebring, during the night session, an orange TA blew the engine and I'm told caught on fire somewhere around Bishop.
Luke would maybe know more as he and Gary were out there while I was putting a set of rear pads on my car. Because...you know...waiting until 5-minutes before the night session started was a great freaking time to do that. :witless:
I know that car was sitting in the paddock the next morning.

As for my '17, it's has burned no perceptible oil whatsoever. I've changed the oil 6 times now with ~1700 miles on the car.
S.

It would be interesting to know more about this one, particularly regarding maintenance.

[Snorman]

It would be interesting to know more about this one, particularly regarding maintenance.
I'll see Luke at Road Atlanta tomorrow so will ask him. I didn't see him much the 2nd day we were at Sebring since it was raining all morning and I packed up and went home.
S.

[darbgnik]

This problem is the number one reason I haven't bought a gen 5. Its not about the money for me its 100% about the principal. The reason I have owned so many vipers is the drop dead reliability. Take that away and Im now shopping for a G.

If you're looking for a lot of performance from your performance car, I wouldn't bother shopping for the G, or even an LP-G. I owned one for 4 years, and while it really is a nice car, it is not that fast, nor is it dynamically exciting....... I owned it and my Viper for a year, and sold the G, after realizing I drove it maybe a half dozen times in the time I had it and the Viper.

It does excel in its natural habitat however, you'll be the star in your local Starbucks parking lot. If that's your thing.

[dethred]

So in order for us to believe that 97 out of 100 cars are seeing excessive rod bearing wear after as low as a couple hundred miles, we have to assume one or all of the following few things:

1.) There is virtually no Quality control process for the motors. (Plausible considering the fact it took them 3 years to figure out the casting debris issue)

2.) There were no tear downs of test motors to check for these things. It would have been a statistical probability that it would have been caught had they run even 3 motors and then tore them down. It's inconceivable that they wouldn't have done this prior to beginning production.

2b) If #2 was done properly, there may have been some change or failure in the machining of the rotating assembly... but we've seen failures/damage ranging from early 2013 through 2017 according to Calvo.

3.) They saw the wear, shrugged, and gave them a pass anyways. This is just as inconceivable considering the headache they'd be leaving themselves to clean up.

[Policy Limits]

Only put 64 miles on my 2017 so it's still early but no issues. Many of us just accepted delivery two months ago or later and it was winter for most of the country. So stay tuned. In 3.5 years i put 8310 miles on my 2013 and it never burned one drop of oil. It was a very early build too. I broke it in per the manual and changed oil every 6 months though. The 5 recalls/ campaigns were frustrating but no engine or oil issues. Luck of the draw car it seemed. I even tracked it a couple of times. Having lucked out I was hesitant to roll the dice on another. But 5 model years newer, a loyalty voucher burning a hole in my pocket, a cleaning station for the block at the plant later, a fresh warranty all led to a 2017 model purchase.

I owned my Gallardo spyder for 4 years. Loved the car, no issues. Currently in the market for another. Trying to have twin V10 status like viper jon. Ha.

[BJG32]

If you're looking for a lot of performance from your performance car, I wouldn't bother shopping for the G, or even an LP-G. I owned one for 4 years, and while it really is a nice car, it is not that fast, nor is it dynamically exciting....... I owned it and my Viper for a year, and sold the G, after realizing I drove it maybe a half dozen times in the time I had it and the Viper.

It does excel in its natural habitat however, you'll be the star in your local Starbucks parking lot. If that's your thing.


So in order for us to believe that 97 out of 100 cars are seeing excessive rod bearing wear after as low as a couple hundred miles, we have to assume one or all of the following few things:

1.) There is virtually no Quality control process for the motors. (Plausible considering the fact it took them 3 years to figure out the casting debris issue)

2.) There were no tear downs of test motors to check for these things. It would have been a statistical probability that it would have been caught had they run even 3 motors and then tore them down. It's inconceivable that they wouldn't have done this prior to beginning production.

2b) If #2 was done properly, there may have been some change or failure in the machining of the rotating assembly... but we've seen failures/damage ranging from early 2013 through 2017 according to Calvo.

3.) They saw the wear, shrugged, and gave them a pass anyways. This is just as inconceivable considering the headache they'd be leaving themselves to clean up.

Good points, but even if its 10%, its still unacceptable in the 5th model year.

[OneofOneViper]

I'm certainly no expert in this field but from what I've read over the last couple years, most of the reputable shops claim oil issues cause most of the Gen V problems ever since the block cleaning station was installed. They eat oil before they have fully heat expanded due to their block being cast and pistons being forged. Even if you're not at a track, if you start your viper up from a cold start often it will eat through oil and there isn't a lot of tolerance on these motors whatsoever so if it gets low it's a big problem. Some say to just add an extra quart of oil and check it every 500 miles or so after the motor has heated up to ensure it's not getting too low. Second, these models don't have a dry sump which is actually needed when performance driving because the amount of g-force experienced when braking, turning, or accelerating is extreme and it can pull the oil away from one portion of the engine which of course would cause problems.

[dhx]

Yes sir. you can extend your warranty up to one year past your purchase date. Contact member ClayR for the best deal. Zellner motors is a sponsor. Link on the sponsors page.

There is no one year rule. You can extend it multiple years later.

[BJG32]

There is no one year rule. You can extend it multiple years later.

Yes, but i believe the price goes up.

[Dman]

If you want expert info, and really interested, forget posting. Just give Antonio and Andy a call, I have. You'll get excellent info on the topic from their mutual direct experience opening these engin s up, from 13s to 17s. Bottom line, recall/campaign doesn't matter, builds after the washing station don't matter, and Year doesn't matter. Antonio recommends a crank treatment that cleans up everything there, getting rid of the crossed drill oiling, which Greg Good has tweeted is an issue with these, and it's very cost controlled, I won't quote it in case, but for a H/C pkg it's a no brained while you're doing that for him to just do it all. But you need to chat with them to get solid info, they're amazing resources.

[sadil]

I'd like to see some of these bearings. Countless times we have tried to get someone to give a little more information about their failure. The result is the same. Everyone running around throwing theories with no facts. I have no double Calvo has the best intentions but seriously we haven't been able to determine how low the oil was in why of the cars. A little bit of wear is fine, fine lines on bearing is not going to kill anything. If you cant even get a finger nail on it, your not going to fail. Should it happen? Ofcourse not. Why is it happening? I don't know. But not every car Calvo finds with bearing wear are going to blow. Bearing wear is its own science and unless someone on here can determine the extent of the wear with a few cell phone piks, we are all wasting our time discussing something that we have no knowledge about. Thats what you get on this forum. An issue pops up, people pick sides and then just argue each other for weeks. Whether its engine failures or Woodhouse's TA/ACR. Facts people. Lets get the damn facts. We know Chrysler had a problem with q/c, we know low oil is an issue as some cars eat more than others. We know we have seen lots blow up. That's it. Going backwards and determining root cause about a vehicle engine you haven't even seen is ridiculous.

[BJG32]

If you want expert info, and really interested, forget posting. Just give Antonio and Andy a call, I have. You'll get excellent info on the topic from their mutual direct experience opening these engin s up, from 13s to 17s. Bottom line, recall/campaign doesn't matter, builds after the washing station don't matter, and Year doesn't matter. Antonio recommends a crank treatment that cleans up everything there, getting rid of the crossed drill oiling, which Greg Good has tweeted is an issue with these, and it's very cost controlled, I won't quote it in case, but for a H/C pkg it's a no brained while you're doing that for him to just do it all. But you need to chat with them to get solid info, they're amazing resources.

Well, ACR Extreme is working closely with VE on his build. Based on ACR Extreme's post about Calvo it sounds like the expert opinions on this same engine differ greatly. Would love to see a forum thread where Woodhouse, VE, Calvo, Nth, (and Arrow? are they on here?) all discuss this engine and ALL other noise is left out (ie ALL of us). Just experts discussing what they are seeing for us to read.... and what a great way for each one to drum up more business.

[Stealth78]

I'd like to see some of these bearings. Countless times we have tried to get someone to give a little more information about their failure. The result is the same. Everyone running around throwing theories with no facts. I have no double Calvo has the best intentions but seriously we haven't been able to determine how low the oil was in why of the cars. A little bit of wear is fine, fine lines on bearing is not going to kill anything. If you cant even get a finger nail on it, your not going to fail. Should it happen? Ofcourse not. Why is it happening? I don't know. But not every car Calvo finds with bearing wear are going to blow. Bearing wear is its own science and unless someone on here can determine the extent of the wear with a few cell phone piks, we are all wasting our time discussing something that we have no knowledge about. Thats what you get on this forum. An issue pops up, people pick sides and then just argue each other for weeks. Whether its engine failures or Woodhouse's TA/ACR. Facts people. Lets get the damn facts. We know Chrysler had a problem with q/c, we know low oil is an issue as some cars eat more than others. We know we have seen lots blow up. That's it. Going backwards and determining root cause about a vehicle engine you haven't even seen is ridiculous.

If the pictures that Antonio has posted are accurate and legit, which I for one am not doubting, then there is a problem. I'm not sure why you feel that the wear is normal. Some of these pictures (once again if factual) are true and this amount of wear/scoring is happening with only a few thousand miles than I would be worried. I have literally seen GenIII engines run up to 150K-200K miles without a rebuild. If you think that this amount of wear is okay in an engine with as little as a few thousand miles you are kidding yourself, these engines probably will never make it a 1/4 of the duration as the GenIII and GenIV engines have.

[ViperSRT]

Lots of experts but how many of these experts have really connected the conditions shown in the photographs to actual failures later in life? I would guess the answer is zero. I have seen bearings with significant material wear and/or fatigue that survived Dyno testing under extreme conditions. Evidence of debris scratches or slight wear is not evidence of impending failure. It is not good, that is clear. But all this crying wolf is just that from my perspective.

I am still chuckling about the stated 97% failure rate. With a failure rate like that I would expect no engine would have ever passed a durability test. How did that pass the laugh test?

[Rizzo]

If you're looking for a lot of performance from your performance car, I wouldn't bother shopping for the G, or even an LP-G. I owned one for 4 years, and while it really is a nice car, it is not that fast, nor is it dynamically exciting....... I owned it and my Viper for a year, and sold the G, after realizing I drove it maybe a half dozen times in the time I had it and the Viper.

It does excel in its natural habitat however, you'll be the star in your local Starbucks parking lot. If that's your thing.

Brad... OUCH... LOL.. Now you are making me want to sell the G and get another Viper..haha. But you are right. The G is SLOW compared to the Viper. I would say my 06 G is comparable to a Gen 2 Viper. A LP 560 would be comparable to a Gen 3. The new Huracan is quick. It is an amazing car. And as far as only using the G to Starbucks? Well that's just crazy. Who the hell can afford Starbucks coffee? Im lucky if I get to hang out in the Tim Hortons parking lot...hahahaha

[donk_316]

All the cool kids hang at out Tims...

Anyways I really believe this comes down to checking oil levels at every fuel up. All these damaged bearings scream low oil levels to me.

Here is my car oil record.

Oil history
281mi / 450kms 1.25 liters oil added
437mi / 700kms 0.75 liters oil added
560mi / 900 kms Oil change
730mi / 1175kms 0.40 liters oil added
975mi / 1565kms 0 oil added
First 1000 miles = 2.4 liters oil added

1560mi / 2500kms 0 oil added
1740mi / 2780kms 0.5 liters oil added
Second 2000mi / 3200kms XXX?
***

The issue is too many people (as literally mentioned in another thread) "I have no idea so I googled and formed an opinion"

If you changing your oil every 6 months and only driving the car 3500 miles in 3 years... well yeah, no doubt you would think it doesn't burn a drop!

[dhx]

If you changing your oil every 6 months and only driving the car 3500 miles in 3 years... well yeah, no doubt you would think it doesn't burn a drop!

Exactly!

[Policy Limits]

All the cool kids hang at out Tims...

Anyways I really believe this comes down to checking oil levels at every fuel up. All these damaged bearings scream low oil levels to me.

Here is my car oil record.

Oil history
281mi / 450kms 1.25 liters oil added
437mi / 700kms 0.75 liters oil added
560mi / 900 kms Oil change
730mi / 1175kms 0.40 liters oil added
975mi / 1565kms 0 oil added
First 1000 miles = 2.4 liters oil added

1560mi / 2500kms 0 oil added
1740mi / 2780kms 0.5 liters oil added
Second 2000mi / 3200kms XXX?
***

The issue is too many people (as literally mentioned in another thread) "I have no idea so I googled and formed an opinion"

If you changing your oil every 6 months and only driving the car 3500 miles in 3 years... well yeah, no doubt you would think it doesn't burn a drop!

True but throwing race track events into the equation adds another variable. So if you're still not burning oil with that consideration compounded it's a decent sign. My 2013 passed all of the recalls and campaigns with flying colors but I'm still glad I moved on. It's tough buying the first model production year of a new generation. ..much better to get the final model year of production

[bluesrt]

my car , 2014 ta burned oil for about 600 miles and then quit, ring break in, but I checked it every time I put gas in it,new engine use oil for the most part(ring break in)

[Chorps]

If everyone is so concerned about this they should be sending off their oil to get analyzed instead of posting without evidence?

[swexlin]

If everyone is so concerned about this they should be sending off their oil to get analyzed instead of posting without evidence?

People are, actually. There is an ongoing thread in this forum.

[Purple Haze]

Beautiful color choice...


I asked because it is not too far away that the below will be showing up. My previous Gen II's and my current Gen IV have been trouble free, and it would suck ass to have to deal with what has been going on with the new one.

[dethred]

Well, ACR Extreme is working closely with VE on his build. Based on ACR Extreme's post about Calvo it sounds like the expert opinions on this same engine differ greatly. Would love to see a forum thread where Woodhouse, VE, Calvo, Nth, (and Arrow? are they on here?) all discuss this engine and ALL other noise is left out (ie ALL of us). Just experts discussing what they are seeing for us to read.... and what a great way for each one to drum up more business.

This is by far the best thing said in this entire thread. Not sure of the odds of this happening, but worth pursuing I'd say. Great idea.


People are, actually. There is an ongoing thread in this forum.

And reading through that thread, it looks like the numbers are inverse to the bearing issues reported by Calvo. How many people have actually gotten a "oh damn, she's gonna blow" report back from Blackstone? Not one I've seen in that thread... but effectively all of our motors are chewing up rod bearings, right?

What a lovely fuster-cluck.

[BJG32]

This is by far the best thing said in this entire thread. Not sure of the odds of this happening, but worth pursuing I'd say. Great idea.

I don't know any of these guys well. If any of them want to scare us into getting our engines checked out/cleaned up, then I would assume they wouldn't want to be debunked on public forum in front of potential customers.

Based on what I am hearing from ACR Extreme VE seems to think this issue is way overblown. Meanwhile Calvo posts pics on Facebook's VOA every few weeks of scary looking bearings stating 100% chance of failure for 97% of cars.

Would be an interesting and valuable discussion. Great minds coming together to get us on the right path to correcting (or dropping worry) about this damn issue....

[donk_316]

They are in the business of building engines... it would be in their best interest if people thought their engines should be rebuilt. No one in the lucrative performance build market is going to say "hey we have opened a few engines and they needed work but I'm sure it's a rare occurrence"

When In doubt, follow the money. This applies to everything in life.

[ACRucrazy]

I don't know any of these guys well. If any of them want to scare us into getting our engines checked out/cleaned up, then I would assume they wouldn't want to be debunked on public forum in front of potential customers.

Based on what I am hearing from ACR Extreme VE seems to think this issue is way overblown. Meanwhile Calvo posts pics on Facebook's VOA every few weeks of scary looking bearings stating 100% chance of failure for 97% of cars.

Would be an interesting and valuable discussion. Great minds coming together to get us on the right path to correcting (or dropping worry) about this damn issue....

Why did VE buy every Gen IV block that was available from the warehouse?

[BJG32]

Why did VE buy every Gen IV block that was available from the warehouse?

LOL.... That is an EXCELLENT question, but I don't know shit.

Maybe I just need to punt this thing and get Honda. ...and I type this as I have a $4000 carbon fiber order sitting in my email draft ready to send to xtreme. G Damn it.

[BJG32]

They are in the business of building engines... it would be in their best interest if people thought their engines should be rebuilt. No one in the lucrative performance build market is going to say "hey we have opened a few engines and they needed work but I'm sure it's a rare occurrence"

When In doubt, follow the money. This applies to everything in life.

So right. and IF the rumors are untrue, we need these rumors to stop on VOA forums and Facebook pages. Scaring us and thus artificially decreasing Gen V values to line their pockets is WRONG!

[ViperSRT]

And from the pictures shown anyone who states that 100% will fail hasn't been around engines long. That is why I called it crying wolf.

[ACR Extreme]

Why did VE buy every Gen IV block that was available from the warehouse?

Nonsense.

I can tell you why they bought some - you are way off call VE and order a Gen IV with glass on top.

There are Gen IV's available as I said if the Gen V was a real problem would not be dumping 15k into it - simply moth balled it and modified a Gen IV.

You guys and these engine threads are something else - seriously!

[ACR Extreme]

So right. and IF the rumors are untrue, we need these rumors to stop on VOA forums and Facebook pages. Scaring us and thus artificially decreasing Gen V values to line their pockets is WRONG!

True.

Viper owners and this forum own worst enemy.

All one has to do is look how many new to Viper owners post here - it's minimal for a reason.

[jaxtk]

How this isn't fixed after 5 YEARS is beyond me...


23277
23278

Normal wear.

[ACRucrazy]

Nonsense.

I can tell you why they bought some - you are way off call VE and order a Gen IV with glass on top.

There are Gen IV's available as I said if the Gen V was a real problem would not be dumping 15k into it - simply moth balled it and modified a Gen IV.

You guys and these engine threads are something else - seriously!

What the hell are you talking about? I have only been sitting here watching V engine failure threads pop up for 4 years now.... I still remember the first one on the VCA..

[Policy Limits]

Pop, pop, pop just like south side of Chicago. ..

[John N]

:fpopcorn::fpopcorn::fpopcorn:

Per Andy, the coffee tables are Gen III blocks and were not eligible for use in rebuilds or in-car use.

Carry on....:fpopcorn::fpopcorn:

[darbgnik]

Brad... OUCH... LOL.. Now you are making me want to sell the G and get another Viper..haha. But you are right. The G is SLOW compared to the Viper. I would say my 06 G is comparable to a Gen 2 Viper. A LP 560 would be comparable to a Gen 3. The new Huracan is quick. It is an amazing car. And as far as only using the G to Starbucks? Well that's just crazy. Who the hell can afford Starbucks coffee? Im lucky if I get to hang out in the Tim Hortons parking lot...hahahaha

Hahaha, I considered how my comment would be taken by the few G owners on here. No disrespect, I did like the car, but it's just not up there in the performance realm. And I did track mine a bit(not just trips to the local coffee shop), and to be honest, the track is the only place the eGear really made sense.

And I test drove the Huracan just before I bought my Viper. It really is an amazing car. Very fast, and very nicely built, but it would still be all the cop magnet my G was, and then some. Could have gotten a great deal on ordering one too, as all my dealers allocations were used up, and could only get his hands on presold cars when they first came out. Coulda kept it for a year, sold it and at least broke even, oh well, hindsight.......

[Stealth78]

Nonsense.

I can tell you why they bought some - you are way off call VE and order a Gen IV with glass on top.

There are Gen IV's available as I said if the Gen V was a real problem would not be dumping 15k into it - simply moth balled it and modified a Gen IV.

You guys and these engine threads are something else - seriously!

I am not 100% on this but I am 99%. Didn't Mark J and Andy (yes I know two separate dealers) both advise that they have GenIV blocks to do builds with? I also believe one of them, possibly both said if they were going to do a build that is what they would start with. Now I'm going to go back and comb through threads trying to find this...

[ACRucrazy]

I am not 100% on this but I am 99%. Didn't Mark J and Andy (yes I know two separate dealers) both advise that they have GenIV blocks to do builds with? I also believe one of them, possibly both said if they were going to do a build that is what they would start with. Now I'm going to go back and comb through threads trying to find this...

No need to comb. You are correct.

[Mr. Hollywood]

They are in the business of building engines... it would be in their best interest if people thought their engines should be rebuilt. No one in the lucrative performance build market is going to say "hey we have opened a few engines and they needed work but I'm sure it's a rare occurrence"

When In doubt, follow the money. This applies to everything in life.

This.

[Bruce H.]

I have only been sitting here watching V engine failure threads pop up for 4 years now.... I still remember the first one on the VCA..

And this is why many active forum users have gotten such a distorted perception of the extent of failures. I see the same posters endlessly referencing the same failures and repeating the same dire warnings of impending engine failures.

The only way owners can satisfy themselves that their engine is healthy is to drive it, and the best way to avoid a costly repair is to do it while it's still under warranty. And "if" one day the engine lets go at least you'll feel you got a tremendous amount of enjoyment out of it, and hopefully won't begrudge the repair costs so much. And maybe you'll take the opportunity to build the engine you always really wanted!

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"...FDR

[BJG32]

And this is why many active forum users have gotten such a distorted perception of the extent of failures. I see the same posters endlessly referencing the same failures and repeating the same dire warnings of impending engine failures.

The only way owners can satisfy themselves that their engine is healthy is to drive it, and the best way to avoid a costly repair is to do it while it's still under warranty. And "if" one day the engine lets go at least you'll feel you got a tremendous amount of enjoyment out of it, and hopefully won't begrudge the repair costs so much. And maybe you'll take the opportunity to build the engine you always really wanted!

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself"...FDR

Good advice. Im checking out on this.....again. im already prepped for worst case.

[ACR Extreme]

I am not 100% on this but I am 99%. Didn't Mark J and Andy (yes I know two separate dealers) both advise that they have GenIV blocks to do builds with? I also believe one of them, possibly both said if they were going to do a build that is what they would start with. Now I'm going to go back and comb through threads trying to find this...

You really need to understand their reasoning for choosing Gen 4 vs Gen 5.

When I say their reasoning - that goes for customer and shop based on many different thought processes.

For me the Gen V was the way to go.

I spoke with a lot of people and don't want to say one is right nor one is wrong.

[Snorman]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling...
It's comical.
And vendors telling everybody that there is a 97% chance their engines are in the process of failing. It's disingenuous, and they know it.
It seems with every platform, there is a degree of fear-mongering. It's block castings and bearing in Gen V Vipers. It's superchargers in Hellcats. It's A8 transmissions, or torque converters or cooling in C7 Corvettes. Years ago, it was "the tick" in '03/'04 Cobras, or piston slap in LSx's GM engines. People will always find something to worry or complain about.
S.

[Alpha acr]

Why not just drope a gen IV block with gen V heads and cam in the 2013-2017 vipers and there you have it, a reliable engine on a gen v car !

[ACRucrazy]

Why not just drope a gen IV block with gen V heads and cam in the 2013-2017 vipers and there you have it, a reliable engine on a gen v car !



That is what WH and VE have been doing.

[ViperJon]

Why not just drope a gen IV block with gen V heads and cam in the 2013-2017 vipers and there you have it, a reliable engine on a gen v car !


That is what WH and VE have been doing.

But doesn't that speak volumes about the Gen V block we all have?

[Policy Limits]

How many 2016 cars have failed? I think it's too soon on the 17's. I recall not seeing many 15's with issues. However there were lots of 13's & 14's. Do you think that mitigating mechanisms were put into place (cleaning station at plant, lessons learned from engine contamination & oil consumption recalls) or do you think same supplier of the same part so it's still a crap shoot?

[ACR Extreme]

That is what WH and VE have been doing.


If someone wants to keep NOS parts because they can is IMO the ONLY reason to go Gen IV.

One Gen V failure on 70 - 80 Stage 2 builds ... yet to confirm why that happened.

For a few bucks anyone can swap - which means that the Gen V engine is valuable.

Think about that ... for a few nickels if the Gen V engine was worthless why would they offer a core exchange.

Many guys here went stage 2 turbo etc - none did an engine swap!

C'mon guys this place is better than a fairy tale.

[swexlin]

That's the frustrating thing, Policy. We just don't know.

[Policy Limits]

I tend to think there's some refinement and de-bugging with 1/2 decade of model year production as this transcends manufacturer identity. However, that gets balanced against same parts from same supplier. I guess you just do proper maintenance, cross your fingers & say your prayers. Welcome to Viper ownership. Haha.

[ACR Extreme]

Hahaha, I considered how my comment would be taken by the few G owners on here. No disrespect, I did like the car, but it's just not up there in the performance realm. And I did track mine a bit(not just trips to the local coffee shop), and to be honest, the track is the only place the eGear really made sense.

And I test drove the Huracan just before I bought my Viper. It really is an amazing car. Very fast, and very nicely built, but it would still be all the cop magnet my G was, and then some. Could have gotten a great deal on ordering one too, as all my dealers allocations were used up, and could only get his hands on presold cars when they first came out. Coulda kept it for a year, sold it and at least broke even, oh well, hindsight.......

I have an Aventador SV roadster - no idea about the G but the Hurcan is an excellent car. Went to the preview for the new Huracan it's aero is amazing. It set the new record many seconds faster than the 918.

Lamborghini's only downside as you stated is the attention it receives - worst part of ownership. Only imagine the disappointment when I stop out of the car.

[Policy Limits]

Wait until u see the attention the ACR gets. The only car I've ever owned that gets the same amount of attention is the Lamborghini. Pictured and filmed everywhere. And stop for fuel at a gas station? You'll be chatting forever. It gets a lot of attention but that's OK.

[ACR Extreme]

Wait until u see the attention the ACR gets. The only car I've ever owned that gets the same amount of attention is the Lamborghini. Pictured and filmed everywhere. And stop for fuel at a gas station? You'll be chatting forever. It gets a lot of attention but that's OK.

Assuming it will be like my 69z28 lots of thumbs up smiles never once heard something negative - everyone loves American muscle foreign muscle not so much.

[Policy Limits]

Even had a girl approach and say she knew absolutely nothing about cars but knew this one is special. Seemed authentic. Hire a body guard! Lol

[jaxtk]

How many 2016 cars have failed? I think it's too soon on the 17's. I recall not seeing many 15's with issues. However there were lots of 13's & 14's. Do you think that mitigating mechanisms were put into place (cleaning station at plant, lessons learned from engine contamination & oil consumption recalls) or do you think same supplier of the same part so it's still a crap shoot?

So far 7 2016 Engines were replaced under warranty.

[Policy Limits]

That's rough. Arrow rebuild is chump change but what an inconvenience and very disappointing on a six figure toy. Fresh 5 year power train warranty: check.

[Stealth78]

So far 7 2016 Engines were replaced under warranty.

Any idea what the mileage was on these?

[dethred]

There was a guy on Facebook VOA I believe, Reported low oil pressure and misfire codes, and said he had run the car up past 120mph the day before. When someone asked how often he was checking the oil level, he seemed confused as to the concept of frequently checking. I'm still convinced that a significant number of failures have been caused by low oil levels and apathetic owners.

[ACRucrazy]

There was a guy on Facebook VOA I believe, Reported low oil pressure and misfire codes, and said he had run the car up past 120mph the day before. When someone asked how often he was checking the oil level, he seemed confused as to the concept of frequently checking. I'm still convinced that a significant number of failures have been caused by low oil levels and apathetic owners.

I have a hard time agreeing with that. If it was simple owners not checking oil, did something magically change with Gen V owners? Where all previous Gen owners were on top of checking oil at every fuel fill up?

[dethred]

I have a hard time agreeing with that. If it was simple owners not checking oil, did something magically change with Gen V owners? Where all previous Gen owners were on top of checking oil at every fuel fill up?

The motors are known to consume oil, especially in the first 1 or 2 oil change intervals. Add to that the difficulty and confusion of reading proper fill levels, and yeah, it's beyond believable. Considering many people check their oil once per change interval, and probably aren't even reading the levels correctly, it's a recipe for a big bang.

[Martin]

I have a hard time agreeing with that. If it was simple owners not checking oil, did something magically change with Gen V owners? Where all previous Gen owners were on top of checking oil at every fuel fill up?

I think that all new owners should be educated right from the start that they need to check the oil very frequently during break-in. There are a LOT of people out there (me included) that have had dozens of cars that never went low on oil between changes. My Gen II and Gen IV never burned a drop. Same goes for everything else I own. I do believe that many of the problems are due to oil burning during the break-in period, and owners not knowing how important it is to check the level. Some cars get away with low oil levels - not these. Run them a couple of quarts low, and it won't take much to get air entrained in the oil and it's all downhill from there.

My prediction is that the next thing we see is a wave of clogged cats. If that much oil is getting past the rings, it's gotta be causing problems with the cats - and that will eventually show up in these discussions.

I guess the short of it is that we've gotta check oil very often, and get the oil tested. If the engine goes, and the owner has been super anal about managing the oil level and keeping records of oil analyses, then we have a data point that would certainly get me more convinced of a manufacturing defect. As it stands now, for the '16 and '17 cars, I'm leaning toward low oil level as the cause of the vast majority of problems.

Of course, if my '17 ACR blows, I'm going to be pissed as hell because I'm definitely going to fall into the super anal category when it comes to watching the oil situation like a hawk.

[Pappy]

I have a hard time agreeing with that. If it was simple owners not checking oil, did something magically change with Gen V owners? Where all previous Gen owners were on top of checking oil at every fuel fill up?

Yes, stronger forged pistons with the required looser clearances. My 2016, like a lot of others, used lots of oil for the first 1300 miles (during a by-the-book break-in), and only trace amounts since - usually 1-2 ounces on a track day. Both the break-in usage and some usage during track events are adequately spelled out in the owners' manual with appropriate warnings to monitor oil levels - warnings that some appear to ignore. I have never let mine get more than 1/4 quart low without topping it off - a small price to pay for the performance we get for the buck.

Pappy

[zee]

There was a guy on Facebook VOA I believe, Reported low oil pressure and misfire codes, and said he had run the car up past 120mph the day before. When someone asked how often he was checking the oil level, he seemed confused as to the concept of frequently checking. I'm still convinced that a significant number of failures have been caused by low oil levels and apathetic owners.

100% agree. The fact that FCA extended warranty on r28 cars and not cars with just r29 issued also is a flag for me. I specifically wanting to find a TA with only r29 issued and didn't burn any oil. It was tough to do but I found one and trusted the previous owner about any consumption issues. I'm at 10k and running strong, no issues with consumption and I check at every fuel stop.

[jaxtk]

Any idea what the mileage was on these?

Yes, 3,000 3000 5,800 1,400 1,500 1,200 3,100

[ACRucrazy]

Yes, 3,000 3000 5,800 1,400 1,500 1,200 3,100

Well then

[ACR PWR]

I think that all new owners should be educated right from the start that they need to check the oil very frequently during break-in. There are a LOT of people out there (me included) that have had dozens of cars that never went low on oil between changes. My Gen II and Gen IV never burned a drop. Same goes for everything else I own. I do believe that many of the problems are due to oil burning during the break-in period, and owners not knowing how important it is to check the level. Some cars get away with low oil levels - not these. Run them a couple of quarts low, and it won't take much to get air entrained in the oil and it's all downhill from there.

My prediction is that the next thing we see is a wave of clogged cats. If that much oil is getting past the rings, it's gotta be causing problems with the cats - and that will eventually show up in these discussions.

I guess the short of it is that we've gotta check oil very often, and get the oil tested. If the engine goes, and the owner has been super anal about managing the oil level and keeping records of oil analyses, then we have a data point that would certainly get me more convinced of a manufacturing defect. As it stands now, for the '16 and '17 cars, I'm leaning toward low oil level as the cause of the vast majority of problems.

Of course, if my '17 ACR blows, I'm going to be pissed as hell because I'm definitely going to fall into the super anal category when it comes to watching the oil situation like a hawk.


I agree with this.
I am also very detailed with checking oil and I do all my own service.
My ACR E did burn oil during break in. I checked it every time I drove it. If your not the kind to check your oil a lot with your cars and just take them to the dealer every once in a while a can see a owner getting into a problem with this car.

My ACR has 2700 miles on it right now and I received the car last October.
I track my 2010 GTR that is modified to 800hp. There are at least three possibilities I could of blown my engine if I wasn't checking oil after sessions and the end of the day. The car is running rich but when I'm running full boost it loves to consume oil. Getting in the habit of being in tune with your car can save you a lot of hardship.

[ACR Extreme]

Well then

I'm curious what your point is - it's like you want there to be an issue and if there is an opening you attempt to widen it.

Viper drinks oil early on - it's due to how the engine acts under break in.

Anything besides that is rare extremely rare and simple fact is it's under warranty so who cares.

[ACRucrazy]

I'm curious what your point is - it's like you want there to be an issue and if there is an opening you attempt widen it.

5/6 of the listed bad engines 3,100 miles and less. I don't believe 5/6 are blown because people didn't check oil levels in their 11 quart capacity engine.

I don't want the Gen Vs to have problems with the engines. But I'm not going to sit here and think these failures are due to owner negligence..

[Policy Limits]

I ordered my first gen V back in 2012. I remember reading the owners manual front to back and recall the manufacturer expressing concern over forged pistons in the engine and how oil consumption was a concern. I further recall the manual insisting on not letting more than 6 months elapse without changing the oil. Not saying there aren't lemons out there because there's plenty, but I'll take the 90% chance the motor won't fail as good odds. First year bugs also seem to transcend brands. I recall the ceo of McLaren actually apologizing (pre epic depreciation) to owners of first year MP4 12C cars in regards to electrical and code issues. First year 458 engines caught fire. Porsche recalled the early GT3, first year Aventador was unpleasant for Lambo, etc. I've deduced in general it's best not to purchase the first model year of a brand's new generation and most likely won't again.

[Angleiron]

So it seems that the wind is blowing towards the forged pistons as being responsible for the oil consumption, and then due to the low oil that leads to the engine failures. The early Gen II's had forged pistons...so what kind of oil consumption was there with that engine? I don't ever remember hearing about engine failures for these Gen II's?

[BJG32]

So it seems that the wind is blowing towards the forged pistons as being responsible for the oil consumption, and then due to the low oil that leads to the engine failures. The early Gen II's had forged pistons...so what kind of oil consumption was there with that engine? I don't ever remember hearing about engine failures for these Gen II's?

Look what started... lol

[OneofOneViper]

5/6 of the listed bad engines 3,100 miles and less. I don't believe 5/6 are blown because people didn't check oil levels in their 11 quart capacity engine.

I don't want the Gen Vs to have problems with the engines. But I'm not going to sit here and think these failures are due to owner negligence..

so less than 1% of cars delivered had an engine failure (not bad by any standards for such a cutting edge high performance engine) and you don't think some of those tracked the car or pushed the rev limit before a proper engine break in? Whether or not oil consumption was the cause of the issue or not, you're trying to make a mounting out of a mole hill and the reality is that the failures for 16 and 17 are significantly lower than the first couple years of generation 5. No doubt they had problem, just like there is no doubt vipers weren't selling well. Get with the times. Things have improved dramatically. Whether that is related or not to the earlier engine issues---who knows.

[Camfab]

I don't even own a Gen V, but I've been watching this drama unfold from the get go. My perspective is, why is everything a secret. Clearly there is a problem and it's not the pistons. Bearings and pistons are unrelated. Yes forged pistons due to larger clearances will burn some extra oil, but torn up crankshafts don't get that way because of pistons. What I thought was interesting about those Facebook photos shown here, is that the bearing wear is not representative of the damaged crank shown. The bearing wear doesn't look bad, while the crank is completely damaged. I feel like those pics are not from the same engine. Clearly there is an issue, and it's likely a combination of faulty casting and machining. Its completely ridiculous that anyone has to deal with this uncertainty for any car. Having said that, if I had the additional funds, I'd buy an ACR-E tomorrow and yank the motor apart the first night. That's just not right.......... I feel for all of you equally mesmerized viper nuts.

[swexlin]

5/6 of the listed bad engines 3,100 miles and less. I don't believe 5/6 are blown because people didn't check oil levels in their 11 quart capacity engine.

I don't want the Gen Vs to have problems with the engines. But I'm not going to sit here and think these failures are due to owner negligence..

I agree.

[Policy Limits]

Will all be moot in 180 days when the production plug is pulled. Can't wait for that to occur.

[Bruce H.]

5/6 of the listed bad engines 3,100 miles and less. I don't believe 5/6 are blown because people didn't check oil levels in their 11 quart capacity engine.

I don't want the Gen Vs to have problems with the engines. But I'm not going to sit here and think these failures are due to owner negligence..

That's because you've never pulled a 3000 mile Gen V dipstick and found it dry. It happens...fact. And it happens because many owners don't read their manual when they first get the car, or until they need to reference something specific, and they have zero idea that this engine can run low on oil before the first scheduled oil change. Owners bringing Vipers in for service with low oil levels are the norm according to a Viper Tech I spoke with, not the exception. Many owners just don't check...but probably start after blowing an engine!

If you're waiting for owners to post here about how they blew their engine through negligence I think you'll remain in denial for a very, very long time.

[Stealth78]

That's because you've never pulled a 3000 mile Gen V dipstick and found it dry. It happens...fact. And it happens because many owners don't read their manual when they first get the car, or until they need to reference something specific, and they have zero idea that this engine can run low on oil before the first scheduled oil change. Owners bringing Vipers in for service with low oil levels are the norm according to a Viper Tech I spoke with, not the exception. Many owners just don't check...but probably start after blowing an engine!

If you're waiting for owners to post here about how they blew their engine through negligence I think you'll remain in denial for a very, very long time.

Not making excuses for anyone but at the 5th production year mark (should have been the 3rd when this seems to have become a known epidemic) Dodge dealerships should be putting a HUGE amount of emphasis to the buyer of how important this is. Not everyone is as knowledgeable as most of us on this forum about this. It's almost comical between my fiance and I, she has always busted my balls for how compulsive I am about checking my fluids constantly, now I use this as my prime example to show and prove to her that I am right about at least one thing in life! Lol!

[Angleiron]

Was it necessary to be checking the oil levels in the same way as it was for the Gen II's with forged pistons? I am trying to compare apples to apples as it does not make sense that the forged pistons in the Gen V are the reason for what has been happening when the Gen II had the same type pistons and no engine failures like this that I am aware of.

[Policy Limits]

Oil consumption was one concern. That's why there was an oil consumption recall. Engine contamination was another. Some oil filters had shavings in them on failed motors. The manufacturer issued another recall wherein an oil sample was shipped to detroit for a test to determine if there were metal components in it. If there were, you'd get a new engine. A block cleaning station was installed at the plant. There are examples involving inferior assembly, others involved blamed suppliers. At the end of the day they either don't know the cause or they do and haven't released it. Either way, we don't. It's a roll of the dice car consequently. Have a pretty girl kiss the dice before you roll if u decide to play the game.

[ViperSmith]

Will all be moot in 180 days when the production plug is pulled. Can't wait for that to occur.
Best hope you don't have a lemon, because you won't be able to get a replacement.

[Bruce H.]

If you can acknowledge that some or many failures were likely a result of low oil levels, both from lack of adding oil as required before the first scheduled service or prior to the R29 mod, then you will see that it 's not nearly the roll of the dice some fear. Not sure how significant or necessary the R29 mod was on some cars, but I can tell you that mine was done around 20,000 miles and there was little evidence of oil escaping even after doing many track days.

[AZTVR]

Was it necessary to be checking the oil levels in the same way as it was for the Gen II's with forged pistons? I am trying to compare apples to apples as it does not make sense that the forged pistons in the Gen V are the reason for what has been happening when the Gen II had the same type pistons and no engine failures like this that I am aware of.
IMHO, there is no point in focusing on one single thing without knowing any of the underlying facts. Just because someone posts something doesn't mean that all of the relevant facts are in play.

I find it interesting to read everyone's opinions, and there seems to be some knowledgeable people here; but, we have experienced people saying different things, based on their background. Or they just say a small part of what they are thinking. Just because two different model years use forged pistons doesn't mean that the design and materials and method of production of those pistons are the same. Are their expansion rates the same? Are they the same diameter? Are the piston rings grooves the same size? Are the piston rings used the same size, edge shape, material? Is the tension the same? Is the cylinder wall machined and honed the same way?, etc.

One can not take one gross difference and extrapolate a root cause other than for pure entertainment reasons. ( Which is OK. That is mostly what this conjecture is good for.)

I have been in the business of root cause determination for 30 years and usually it is at least 2 things (usually more) which combine to result in a gross failure.

[ACRucrazy]

That's because you've never pulled a 3000 mile Gen V dipstick and found it dry. It happens...fact. And it happens because many owners don't read their manual when they first get the car, or until they need to reference something specific, and they have zero idea that this engine can run low on oil before the first scheduled oil change. Owners bringing Vipers in for service with low oil levels are the norm according to a Viper Tech I spoke with, not the exception. Many owners just don't check...but probably start after blowing an engine!

If you're waiting for owners to post here about how they blew their engine through negligence I think you'll remain in denial for a very, very long time.

What about the 1,200 1,400 and 1,500 mile 2016 engine? Quarts low during a "normal break in procedure"?

[uberpube]

What about the 1,200 1,400 and 1,500 mile 2016 engine? Quarts low during a "normal break in procedure"?
You are also assuming the oil also got checked at PDI and was completely full when it left the factory. The way my Jeep drank mobil 1 0w40, it wouldn't surprise me that many of the failures were low oil level casualties. Even though I seemed to have cured the Jeeps thirst for oil by playing with different brands and viscosity, I still check it every time I drive it.

[swexlin]

I think most would assume that the oil was full when it left the factory. Yes, mistakes happen at the factory, but I don't think that very many left the factory already low.

I check my oil every 200 miles, on the flat in my garage, within 5 minutes of shutting down, so there is consistency. At 11,600 miles, I'm using about 1 quart per 1000 miles (assuming the hashtag on the 13 dipstick is a 2 quart range). I bought the car with 7200 miles on it, so I have no idea what the usage was in the first few thousand miles of its life.

[Bruce H.]

ACRucrazy,

No, that is hopefully quite unlikely, and therefore it's reasonable to assume that these few may very well be among the failures from a cause other than low oil. All of my comments in this thread are to combat any perception that a large percentage of these engines are ticking time bombs. That's a fear and a theory often repeated by some who we already know have an axe to grind, by those who read the forum and repeat what they've read posted over and over... and by a couple of non-Gen V owners that shamelessly knock the V at every opportunity.

I'm not suggesting there aren't any bad engines, but if it's anywhere near 6 engines out of the entire production run for 2016 then I think that's one more reason to stop crying wolf. I asked a ways back if anyone knew of any tracked cars that had blown and Ralph's was the only one beside one that was know to be run out of oil.

So rejoice...instead of spending a lot of time posting doom and gloom on this Gen V forum, you can buy one with confidence and post about its remarkable virtues and reliability!

[Policy Limits]

Best hope you don't have a lemon, because you won't be able to get a replacement.

Wrong Harold. By law manufacturers are required to carry parts years later even if out of production. Half of a decade power train warranty: check.

Also Reached 100 miles On the odometer today!! The break in period is under way!!! Yahooooo!

[uberpube]

I think most would assume that the oil was full when it left the factory. Yes, mistakes happen at the factory, but I don't think that very many left the factory already low.

I check my oil every 200 miles, on the flat in my garage, within 5 minutes of shutting down, so there is consistency. At 11,600 miles, I'm using about 1 quart per 1000 miles (assuming the hashtag on the 13 dipstick is a 2 quart range). I bought the car with 7200 miles on it, so I have no idea what the usage was in the first few thousand miles of its life.

I once did PDI's at a Dodge dealership, you'd be surprised at what got missed or half done from the factory, even on the higher end stuff. The dreams of my youth were to either work for Dodge or at a premier dealership. Working at a Dodge dealer actually made me choose another unrelated vocation altogether.

[swexlin]

ACRucrazy,

No, that is hopefully quite unlikely, and therefore it's reasonable to assume that these few may very well be among the failures from a cause other than low oil. All of my comments in this thread are to combat any perception that a large percentage of these engines are ticking time bombs. That's a fear and a theory often repeated by some who we already know have an axe to grind, by those who read the forum and repeat what they've read posted over and over... and by a couple of non-Gen V owners that shamelessly knock the V at every opportunity.

I'm not suggesting there aren't any bad engines, but if it's anywhere near 6 engines out of the entire production run for 2016 then I think that's one more reason to stop crying wolf. I asked a ways back if anyone knew of any tracked cars that had blown and Ralph's was the only one beside one that was know to be run out of oil.

So rejoice...instead of spending a lot of time posting doom and gloom on this Gen V forum, you can buy one with confidence and post about its remarkable virtues and reliability!

Bruce, I VERY much hope you prove to be right! Only time, miles, and years passing as these cars age will be able to tell for sure.

[Policy Limits]

Yup. Apparently 400 miles was the number for problems on a 2017 (see other thread on it) sigh.

[Scott_in_fl]

I asked because it is not too far away that the below will be showing up. My previous Gen II's and my current Gen IV have been trouble free, and it would suck ass to have to deal with what has been going on with the new one.

Absolutely gorgeous!! Well done.

[Stealth78]

ACRucrazy,

No, that is hopefully quite unlikely, and therefore it's reasonable to assume that these few may very well be among the failures from a cause other than low oil. All of my comments in this thread are to combat any perception that a large percentage of these engines are ticking time bombs. That's a fear and a theory often repeated by some who we already know have an axe to grind, by those who read the forum and repeat what they've read posted over and over... and by a couple of non-Gen V owners that shamelessly knock the V at every opportunity.

I'm not suggesting there aren't any bad engines, but if it's anywhere near 6 engines out of the entire production run for 2016 then I think that's one more reason to stop crying wolf. I asked a ways back if anyone knew of any tracked cars that had blown and Ralph's was the only one beside one that was know to be run out of oil.

So rejoice...instead of spending a lot of time posting doom and gloom on this Gen V forum, you can buy one with confidence and post about its remarkable virtues and reliability!

Not trying to be negative here but saying there are only 6 engines out of the entire production year cannot be remotely close to accurate. If some of these engines aren't failing until 3,000-5,000 miles that's scary as well. We are talking about Viper's here, as much as some guys drive their asses off there are an equal amount if not more that don't! Hell I just bought my 08 last year with 1,800 miles on it. There could potentially be more engine failures out there that have simply not had enough time on the engines to see the results. Taking a wild swing here but I'm going to assume half of the 2016 production year cars have not even seen 2,000-3,000 miles yet.

[swexlin]

I put 2000 miles per year on average on my Vipers. I know people who put less. That's why I mentioned above it may take years to see what a failure rate may actually be, and why I hope Bruce is right, and we are worrying for nothing.

[Bruce H.]

Bruce, I VERY much hope you prove to be right! Only time, miles, and years passing as these cars age will be able to tell for sure.


Not trying to be negative here but saying there are only 6 engines out of the entire production year cannot be remotely close to accurate. If some of these engines aren't failing until 3,000-5,000 miles that's scary as well. We are talking about Viper's here, as much as some guys drive their asses off there are an equal amount if not more that don't! Hell I just bought my 08 last year with 1,800 miles on it. There could potentially be more engine failures out there that have simply not had enough time on the engines to see the results. Taking a wild swing here but I'm going to assume half of the 2016 production year cars have not even seen 2,000-3,000 miles yet.


So far 7 2016 Engines were replaced under warranty.


Yes, 3,000 3000 5,800 1,400 1,500 1,200 3,100

I should have said 7 so far. Predicting how many "might" go in the future can only lead to wild theories when we don't actually know much at all. What we think we do know from '13-14 failures is that the bulk of them were at low mileage, many during break-in. I think we also believe there were a lot fewer 2015's affected, and we've hardly hear a whisper about failed '16-17's where many would at least have break-in miles and more on them. The failure rate seems to have dropped significantly.

Everytime we hear of an isolated failure we shouldn't get sucked into the frenzy that we were a year ago. Some engines fail, that's not unique to Dodge...it is what it is.

Owners of earlier Gen V's not covered under the R28 10 year extended warranty might want to put some miles on the car if they're truly concerned, or buy an extended warranty. Very few engines failed beyond ~3000 miles if info posted on this forum can be trusted. Most owners can do that within 4 years...and maybe this additional motivation to do so will enhance their enjoyment of the car!

[Stealth78]

I should have said 7 so far. Predicting how many "might" go in the future can only lead to wild theories when we don't actually know much at all. What we think we do know from '13-14 failures is that the bulk of them were at low mileage, many during break-in. I think we also believe there were a lot fewer 2015's affected, and we've hardly hear a whisper about failed '16-17's where many would at least have break-in miles and more on them. The failure rate seems to have dropped significantly.

Everytime we hear of an isolated failure we shouldn't get sucked into the frenzy that we were a year ago. Some engines fail, that's not unique to Dodge...it is what it is.

Owners of earlier Gen V's not covered under the R28 10 year extended warranty might want to put some miles on the car if they're truly concerned, or buy an extended warranty. Very few engines failed beyond ~3000 miles if info posted on this forum can be trusted. Most owners can do that within 4 years...and maybe this additional motivation to do so will enhance their enjoyment of the car!

I do very much agree that there should be a lot less for half of the 2016 models and all of the 2017 models. Have we all forgotten about the implementation of the wash station, or is that all a myth too??? I highly doubt FCA would implement another step in the engine building process if all the engine failures seemed to have been from low oil. The fact that they did add that procedure proves that there was more to it than just people running their oil low.

[99RT10]

So it seems that the wind is blowing towards the forged pistons as being responsible for the oil consumption, and then due to the low oil that leads to the engine failures. The early Gen II's had forged pistons...so what kind of oil consumption was there with that engine? I don't ever remember hearing about engine failures for these Gen II's?

The oil consumption doesn't have anything to do with the forged piston, but instead with the weak oil rings. I would guess a fix would be pulling the engine, de-burring the block, new/better rings and bearing. But while you're in there....................................


:D

[swexlin]

Someday, one of the "insiders" will write a tell-all book, and then we'll know!

[Bruce H.]

Someday, one of the "insiders" will write a tell-all book, and then we'll know!

Wouldn't that be an interesting read! We can be sure that they've been all over this problem from the beginning when it first appeared, and taken steps to resolve possibly numerous contributing factors. They might have resolved it 99%, but we're all still in the dark, and any current failure naturally makes us wonder and worry. There's probably a very solid reason why the factory hasn't been able to openly discuss the issue.

[Policy Limits]

They'd prolly lose too much dough by recalling them all.

[Camfab]

Wrong Harold. By law manufacturers are required to carry parts years later even if out of production. Half of a decade power train warranty: check.

Also Reached 100 miles On the odometer today!! The break in period is under way!!! Yahooooo!

I'd love to see that law, I have called the California Air Research Board (CARB) as well as the California Bureau of Automotive Repair asking for answers. I was told no law exists. I was specifically given an example of an offending manufacturer and it was a Dodge product. I made no mention of any car that I owned. So if you have proof as you state, I'm guessing your an attorney, it would be a service to all if you can find said "law".

[ViperSmith]

Wrong Harold. By law manufacturers are required to carry parts years later even if out of production. Half of a decade power train warranty: check.

Also Reached 100 miles On the odometer today!! The break in period is under way!!! Yahooooo!
If your car is a lemon they are going to build you a new one out of replacement parts?

If you have to return it, for whatever reason, you are screwed - don't be so quick to pat yourself on the back for production ending.

[Policy Limits]

No they do a buy back in that situation. And would you really want another one after going through something like that? Plant closes in 5 months now, can't wait

[Policy Limits]

I'd love to see that law, I have called the California Air Research Board (CARB) as well as the California Bureau of Automotive Repair asking for answers. I was told no law exists. I was specifically given an example of an offending manufacturer and it was a Dodge product. I made no mention of any car that I owned. So if you have proof as you state, I'm guessing your an attorney, it would be a service to all if you can find said "law".

I am an attorney actually. The "law" is your legally binding contract of warranty in and to your vehicle purchase. There are express and implied warranties by law with such a consumer purchase. I'm no consumer lawyer but my understanding is that parts need to be made available through out the warranty period notwithstanding the end of production. In addition to a contract being a legally binding and enforceable legal mechanism, there may be state and federal statutes that provide consumer protection, have you "called" your law library?

[Bruce H.]

No they do a buy back in that situation. And would you really want another one after going through something like that? Plant closes in 5 months now, can't wait

Why are you so eager for the factory to close and production to end?

The reaction I see from media, enthusiast owners and non-owners is universally one of great disappointment, and represents to them the ending of an era that they hoped would never end. Friends of mine who preferred and purchased other pricey performance cars mourn the loss of a car that helped improve the breed everywhere.

For current Viper owners it causes additional concern over the availability of factory parts and support, dealer support and aftermarket parts development and support.

Prospective buyers will be concerned about on-going dwindling availability and rising cost of parts and service as well, and something they will naturally factor into a decision whether to even to purchase or not, and the price they're willing to pay. And that will impact the ease of owners selling their cars and the offers they'll get.

I just don't see an upside to this at all, even for those with limited, dealer and special editions. There will be collectors that don't plan to drive the cars and may not be as concerned about parts and service, but they may be concerned about how desirable the market in general considers these cars, and I really can't see that being enhanced, at least in the short term. But we have a whole thread devoted to that, and show a range of opinions about how all that might play out.

So why do you rejoice the passing of this icon so often?

Bruce

[LABrit]

Why are you so eager for the factory to close and production to end?

The reaction I see from media, enthusiast owners and non-owners is universally one of great disappointment, and represents to them the ending of an era that they hoped would never end. Friends of mine who preferred and purchased other pricey performance cars mourn the loss of a car that helped improve the breed everywhere.

For current Viper owners it causes additional concern over the availability of factory parts and support, dealer support and aftermarket parts development and support.

Prospective buyers will be concerned about on-going dwindling availability and rising cost of parts and service as well, and something they will naturally factor into a decision whether to even to purchase or not, and the price they're willing to pay. And that will impact the ease of owners selling their cars and the offers they'll get.

I just don't see an upside to this at all, even for those with limited, dealer and special editions. There will be collectors that don't plan to drive the cars and may not be as concerned about parts and service, but they may be concerned about how desirable the market in general considers these cars, and I really can't see that being enhanced, at least in the short term. But we have a whole thread devoted to that, and show a range of opinions about how all that might play out.

So why do you rejoice the passing of this icon so often?

Bruce

I've noticed this too- he's obsessed with the notion that the car will rise in value, which it may do slightly.

Who cares...as I've pointed out it'll be a shit investment over years when monetised - it's not a Porsche or Ferrari and won't be doubling like a few of my other and previous cars. Cars should be bought for fun not speculation and personally with the change in the market over the last 5 years if you can enjoy and not lose money that's amazing - to make money is a bonus. To expect to make...you're a sucker as all good things come to an end.

[swexlin]

I will be dead long before my car, or any Viper, *Might* be worth something, as I feel that will take 30-40 years.

My mother owned a 1971 Series 3 V12 Jag, which she bought new in Nov 1971, when I was 8. I was raised in that car (it was her daily driver for 10 years), and it's probably what got me started! However, that car's value went up and down over the course of the 35 years she owned it. When she sold, she got something decent, but not even near what the car cost over the years in repairs, insurance, gas, and all the normal costs of ownership. But she ENJOYED the car, which is what it is all about.

[ViperSRT]

Why are you so eager for the factory to close and production to end?

The reaction I see from media, enthusiast owners and non-owners is universally one of great disappointment, and represents to them the ending of an era that they hoped would never end. Friends of mine who preferred and purchased other pricey performance cars mourn the loss of a car that helped improve the breed everywhere.

For current Viper owners it causes additional concern over the availability of factory parts and support, dealer support and aftermarket parts development and support.

Prospective buyers will be concerned about on-going dwindling availability and rising cost of parts and service as well, and something they will naturally factor into a decision whether to even to purchase or not, and the price they're willing to pay. And that will impact the ease of owners selling their cars and the offers they'll get.

I just don't see an upside to this at all, even for those with limited, dealer and special editions. There will be collectors that don't plan to drive the cars and may not be as concerned about parts and service, but they may be concerned about how desirable the market in general considers these cars, and I really can't see that being enhanced, at least in the short term. But we have a whole thread devoted to that, and show a range of opinions about how all that might play out.

So why do you rejoice the passing of this icon so often?

Bruce

Well stated. I concur 100%.

[Policy Limits]

Never plan on selling. My window sticker says the " vehicle was specifically built for" me as does my dash plaque. So it has nothing to do with resale or value as incorrectly deduced. I'm just tired of reading the drama dating back to 2012 on the vca site in regards to this gen. I'm glad it's going out on top with the ACR though, most epic departure it could ask for.

[OneofOneViper]

Why are you so eager for the factory to close and production to end?

The reaction I see from media, enthusiast owners and non-owners is universally one of great disappointment, and represents to them the ending of an era that they hoped would never end. Friends of mine who preferred and purchased other pricey performance cars mourn the loss of a car that helped improve the breed everywhere.

For current Viper owners it causes additional concern over the availability of factory parts and support, dealer support and aftermarket parts development and support.

Prospective buyers will be concerned about on-going dwindling availability and rising cost of parts and service as well, and something they will naturally factor into a decision whether to even to purchase or not, and the price they're willing to pay. And that will impact the ease of owners selling their cars and the offers they'll get.

I just don't see an upside to this at all, even for those with limited, dealer and special editions. There will be collectors that don't plan to drive the cars and may not be as concerned about parts and service, but they may be concerned about how desirable the market in general considers these cars, and I really can't see that being enhanced, at least in the short term. But we have a whole thread devoted to that, and show a range of opinions about how all that might play out.

So why do you rejoice the passing of this icon so often?

Bruce

He just cracked 100 miles on his car after owning it for a couple months now. It's an investment for him not a toy. Warren Buffet has said several times that a correction always comes after euphoria. I wouldn't say we've hit a euphoria stage yet, but all hard assets like cars, jewlery, collectible coins etc will take a huge hit when a recession or correction does occur. My advice to Policy Limits is to sell before then because I think you'll be very disappointed if you hold on too long. If you don't sell, you have 2 options.

1. Hold onto it for another 5-10 years and hope it gets back to where it was before the correction or even higher.
2. Drive the car because you've come to the realization it's a car that means more to you than it anyone is going to pay you anyways

I always found one of my friend's analogies to be very true and perhaps it may sink in for someone else so here it is: "Why would you get engaged with a super model and not bang her because you couldn't make that commitment. Are you saving her purity for the next guy?"

[ViperSRT]

Never plan on selling. My window sticker says the " vehicle was specifically built for" me as does my dash plaque. So it has nothing to do with resale or value as incorrectly deduced. I'm just tired of reading the drama dating back to 2012 on the vca site in regards to this gen. I'm glad it's going out on top with the ACR though, most epic departure it could ask for.

If all that is true then why all the negative posts regarding the potential for failure? It is nonsensical to cry wolf when you are already an owner and cannot change the reality. All you do is diminish the products reputation that you state to be so dear to you. And the hope the factory closes soon is also crazy as Bruce so elequently stated.

[Policy Limits]

So eloquent......LOL...has it dawned on you that it's impossible to drive an ACR in snow in the dead of winter in the north east? And that's the problem with the drama surrounding this brand. So many are so concerned with what everyone else is doing. Tick tock ...

[Donato]

You better invest in some spare hood-hinges before the factory calls it quits. As many times as you flipped that hood open in the last 100 miles while at the fueling station they are going to wear out before you hit 200 miles. :D

[Patentlaw]

To all,

Regardless of whether someone wants the factory to close or not.....it is closing. Poking someone for their opinion is kind of like beating a dead horse now. There seem to be many people with positive and negative feelings on the website regarding the Gen V.

Plaw

[Policy Limits]

You better invest in some spare hood-hinges before the factory calls it quits. As many times as you flipped that hood open in the last 100 miles while at the fueling station they are going to wear out before you hit 200 miles. :D

Where's yours?

- - - Updated - - -


To all,

Regardless of whether someone wants the factory to close or not.....it is closing. Poking someone for their opinion is kind of like beating a dead horse now. There seem to be many people with positive and negative feelings on the website regarding the Gen V.

Plaw

Amen counselor.

[Donato]

Ha! :D

[Bryan Savage]

Just to chime in here... I've got 24,000 miles on my '14 TA. Changed the oil myself each time. Got the R28/R29 recalls done because free parts, but as I suspected, they didn't show anything wrong.

I get a bit of oil consumption after a track session, but not bad at all otherwise. Just check the level as others here have mentioned.

It sucks that some owners are having problems, but I'm sure like most things, those wronged shout the loudest.

So I'm here to say that aside from me crashing it, the only problems I've had with the car are a small EVAP leak check engine light (that went away after a dealer ECU update) and a delayed door handle operation that the R-whatever recall fixed.

My car runs like a champ and always has.

Cheers!!

[Stealth78]

Never plan on selling. My window sticker says the " vehicle was specifically built for ________" as does my dash plaque. So it has nothing to do with resale or value as incorrectly deduced. I'm just tired of reading the drama dating back to 2012 on the vca site in regards to this gen. I'm glad it's going out on top with the ACR though, most epic departure it could ask for.


Lets play "Fill in the Blank"! ;)

[Policy Limits]

Policy Limits of course!

[BlueAdder]

So rejoice...instead of spending a lot of time posting doom and gloom on this Gen V forum, you can buy one with confidence and post about its remarkable virtues and reliability!

It's more productive to drive the damn thing than complain about what ifs. When I ordered my ACR, I didn't make much research and I had no clue about the potential spun bearings.
When I took delivery of the car, the owner of the dealership (and the guy I made the deal with) told me to watch the oil level on the car and then I'd be good.

So, I'm heeding his advice and I check the oil just about every time I take the car out. I know it's totally superfluous and I should probably just check every fill up (then again, that beast is so thirsty that I might end up checking just as often) but a sanity check is always good to do.

My differential turned out to be bad and I had 700 miles on the car. Did that make me think that the car was a pile of crap? nope. just got a bad part and the warranty took car of that, no big deal.
Of course, I want a car that's perfect but that's just a silly dream.

One of the better memes: http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/610/253/184.jpg

[ACR Extreme]

Why are you so eager for the factory to close and production to end?

The reaction I see from media, enthusiast owners and non-owners is universally one of great disappointment, and represents to them the ending of an era that they hoped would never end. Friends of mine who preferred and purchased other pricey performance cars mourn the loss of a car that helped improve the breed everywhere.

For current Viper owners it causes additional concern over the availability of factory parts and support, dealer support and aftermarket parts development and support.

Prospective buyers will be concerned about on-going dwindling availability and rising cost of parts and service as well, and something they will naturally factor into a decision whether to even to purchase or not, and the price they're willing to pay. And that will impact the ease of owners selling their cars and the offers they'll get.

I just don't see an upside to this at all, even for those with limited, dealer and special editions. There will be collectors that don't plan to drive the cars and may not be as concerned about parts and service, but they may be concerned about how desirable the market in general considers these cars, and I really can't see that being enhanced, at least in the short term. But we have a whole thread devoted to that, and show a range of opinions about how all that might play out.

So why do you rejoice the passing of this icon so often?

Bruce

Good people losing their jobs suppliers etc for every one job in the auto industry five more are tied directly.

No one wants to see someone get hurt - but this place tends to dwell on the downside vs the upside of the ACR. How often do you hear a driving impression or track video vs engine failures.

Once they are all delivered with happy owners fingers crossed this place will have more positive than negative even the dealers get a hard time for no reason.

[Dan Cragin]

The wear on the crankshaft looks like you could feel it with a fingernail. Not Good

[ACR Extreme]

I've noticed this too- he's obsessed with the notion that the car will rise in value, which it may do slightly.

Who cares...as I've pointed out it'll be a shit investment over years when monetised - it's not a Porsche or Ferrari and won't be doubling like a few of my other and previous cars. Cars should be bought for fun not speculation and personally with the change in the market over the last 5 years if you can enjoy and not lose money that's amazing - to make money is a bonus. To expect to make...you're a sucker as all good things come to an end.

You said that about the Carrera GT and sold - I still have mine great car but you stated the market has peaked you will come back and buy when they drop ... but that didn't happen.

Said the same about when I bought the SV roadster now selling for 100k over.

Again with the 16M it's one of my favorite cars to drive - it's almost doubled you were going to buy one.

My ACR that I bought jus over invoice was offered 20k over so there's almost 30k - now you state they are a pos but that's not true.

You should really stop telling people they are a sucker and own a shit investment after all you sold all the cars that are still rising and you had your ACR for sale but before you took delivery bragged about tracking half the time ... but you couldn't get a good price love to hear your track times :)

Will give you this it's not a Ferrari or Porsche even though you tried to pick a Ferrari color and bragged about Ferrari like leather.

It's an American Icon and it does not get better than that - manual V10 hand build breaking track records.

[commandomatt]

:fpopcorn:

[ACR Extreme]

:fpopcorn:

Enjoy your popcorn.

This car buying experience and getting to know a lot of great Viper people from techs to racing engine builders after market you name it has been the most enjoyable experience even missing out on the Concierge due to ordering a special edition it's been incredibly cool!

Despite the Gen V engine threads people sharing their factory photos builds mods there is not another brand that offers this for twice the price.

Never dealt with Viper - dealer offers me #9 no money down and sends me a build sheet with invoice - that's just unheard of with any brand anywhere. I am not a seller it's too much brain damage to buy a car to let someone else enjoy. The Stage 2 ACR is going to be insanity :)

[commandomatt]

Enjoy your popcorn.

This car buying experience and getting to know a lot of great Viper people from techs to racing engine builders after market you name it has been the most enjoyable experience even missing out on the Concierge due to ordering a special edition it's been incredibly cool!

Despite the Gen V engine threads people sharing their factory photos builds mods there is not another brand that offers this for twice the price.

Oh, I am just waiting to see what LA Brit has to say in response after that beat down...........

I myself believe that these cars will hold their value quite well. As so often is the case.....things don't get appreciated and valued until they are no longer available. I will keep my 1 of 1 pics in a safe place as that will never happen again (with a Viper). Regardless what's down the road, that was one amazing experience

[ACR Extreme]

Oh, I am just waiting to see what LA Brit has to say in response...........

I myself agree that these cars will hold their value quite well. I will keep my 1 of 1 pics in a safe place as that experience will never happen again (with a Viper).

It doesn't happen with any brand at many times the price.

The Viper dealers posting sharing modifying it's unheard of and even more amazing they fight the factory to cover modified cars to receive factory warranty.

Porsche Ferrari Lamborghini when they stop laughing and catch their breath will kindly show you the door.

The fact it beats the 918 is just insane thanks to VE who convinced me to get one with am American Flag :)

Care very little what he says - post was to rude to let it go.

[slowhatch]

This has been the Gen V forum as of late;

https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2015/12/17/635859810085349661702842070_fighting.gif

[LABrit]

You said that about the Carrera GT and sold - I still have mine great car but you stated the market has peaked you will come back and buy when they drop ... but that didn't happen.

Said the same about when I bought the SV roadster now selling for 100k over.

Again with the 16M it's one of my favorite cars to drive - it's almost doubled you were going to buy one.

My ACR that I bought jus over invoice was offered 20k over so there's almost 30k - now you state they are a pos but that's not true.

You should really stop telling people they are a sucker and own a shit investment after all you sold all the cars that are still rising and you had your ACR for sale but before you took delivery bragged about tracking half the time ... but you couldn't get a good price love to hear your track times :)

Will give you this it's not a Ferrari or Porsche even though you tried to pick a Ferrari color and bragged about Ferrari like leather.

It's an American Icon and it does not get better than that - manual V10 hand build breaking track records.

I sold my 6200 mile CGT for $835k and 2000 mile ones aren't selling listed at $640k and bought it for considerably less. Who cares? Cars are for driving. Any profit is bonus and all you do is talk up the market on every single forum as you've been doing on here with your "friend" who just got "overs" on his LE blah blah blah.

To address your points:

SV Roadsters - will be at list shortly. Coupes already are at list and under.
16m's - down from 495k asking prices to 365 and not selling. Been offered a few which have all been sitting. Still too expensive.
Your ACR - bullshit were you offered 20k over list.
My ACR - its available for sale. It's not been listed anywhere other than mentioned fleetingly on here and Instagram as I'm not bothered about it. The car is incredible and certainly not a POS. the leather is from the same manufacturer IIRC.

Keep talking crap - I'm sitting very happy indeed. Unlike you I'm young and not of retirement age and am too busy to hit the track let alone drive my cars and I'll be buying as and when I have time.

Other members pay him no attention and if you want to laugh all day long look up his username Nuvolari on Lambopower and see how he was run off the forum for acting like a complete and utter prat.

[ACR Extreme]

I sold my 6200 mile CGT for $835k and 2000 mile ones aren't selling listed at $640k and bought it for considerably less. Who cares?

Keep talking crap - I'm sitting very happy indeed. Other members pay him no attention and if you want to laugh all day long look up his username Nuvolari on Lambopower and see how he was run off the forum for acting like a complete prat.

Little man on a forum - when asked to go meet at a track you called me a bully. Any track any day I will fly the car to any track and let's roll tape. You won't but talk like you will recall that post where you stated half my time will be spent on track ... yeah sure it will I laughed when you posted but figured that's just your way of talking big.

Go back to Lambo power where your best friend owns the forum and he still sent me a personal apology for your actions.

I have nothing to hide unlike you - address your bs post or don't because you can't.

Utter prat - lil brit speak english and tell the truth you sold it in another country besides thought you didn't care about making profit feel free to go back and read what you wrote.

You sure do seem to care about the value of cars :)

[LABrit]

A bully? Ha! Please do quote that as you were called everything under the sun but certainly not a bully.

You were called an old attention seeking dumbass that primarily joins forums to show off new cars and talk up values instead of actively contributing.

Even seeing you post on here you've done the same thing - you only post in value threads or threads you've created but unlike you, I've been the bigger man and not bothered bringing up old news and old arguments into a different forum.

Clearly you're still crying about how you were ridiculed by so many elsewhere. The owner of the forum apologised to you? You truly do make it up as you go.

Good luck Chuck!

[ACR Extreme]

I sold my 6200 mile CGT for $835k and 2000 mile ones aren't selling listed at $640k and bought it for considerably less. Who cares? Cars are for driving. Any profit is bonus and all you do is talk up the market on every single forum as you've been doing on here with your "friend" who just got "overs" on his LE blah blah blah.

To address your points:

SV Roadsters - will be at list shortly. Coupes already are at list and under.
16m's - down from 495k asking prices to 365 and not selling. Been offered a few which have all been sitting. Still too expensive.
Your ACR - bullshit were you offered 20k over list.
My ACR - its available for sale. It's not been listed anywhere other than mentioned fleetingly on here and Instagram as I'm not bothered about it. The car is incredible and certainly not a POS. the leather is from the same manufacturer IIRC.

Keep talking crap - I'm sitting very happy indeed. Unlike you I'm young and not of retirement age and am too busy to hit the track let alone drive my cars and I'll be buying as and when I have time.

Other members pay him no attention and if you want to laugh all day long look up his username Nuvolari on Lambopower and see how he was run off the forum for acting like a complete and utter prat.

Address what you said about the Viper - don't bite off more than you can chew.

It's not bs - it's fact speaking of facts just because you ordered an odd duck it's your odd duck embrace it.

[ACR Extreme]

A bully? Ha! Please do quote that as you were called everything under the sun but certainly not a bully.

You were called an old attention seeking dumbass that primarily joins forums to show off new cars and talk up values instead of actively contributing.

Even seeing you post on here you've done the same thing - you only post in value threads or threads you've created but unlike you, I've been the bigger man and not bothered bringing up old news and old arguments into a different forum.

Clearly you're still crying about how you were ridiculed by so many elsewhere. The owner of the forum apologised to you? You truly do make it up as you go.

Good luck Chuck!

Then meet me on track - your buddies can all come.

Any track in the country - just pick one a date I will be there question is Mr I will track 50% of the time you will you. As Policy limits said tick tock :)

[LABrit]

Address what you said about the Viper - don't bite off more than you can chew.

It's not bs - it's fact speaking of facts just because you ordered an odd duck it's your odd duck embrace it.

Address that I said that the Viper will not be a good investment? Who cares?

I love my Viper - the car is phenomenal and I've yet to say anything bad about it as there is nothing bad about it. Bang for buck it's the best on the market and will go down in history.

Since you're SO bothered as to why I haven't tracked it here's the answer for you, not that you deserve it:

Simple fact is we happily found out my Mrs was pregnant 2 months after i ordered the Viper with my now 4 month beautiful baby girl and along with my second current business venture I have no time to track the car and it's sitting pretty along with the rest of them.

Hopefully when things calm down and I free up some time I'll be able to put it through it's paces.

[ACR Extreme]

Address that I said that the Viper will not be a good investment? Who cares?

I love my Viper - the car is phenomenal and I've yet to say anything bad about it as there is nothing bad about it. Bang for buck it's the best on the market and will go down in history.

Since you're SO bothered as to why I haven't tracked it here's the answer for you, not that you deserve it:

Simple fact is we happily found out my Mrs was pregnant 2 months after i ordered the Viper with my now 4 month beautiful baby girl and along with my second current business venture I have no time to track the car and it's sitting pretty along with the rest of them.

Hopefully when things calm down and I free up some time I'll be able to put it through it's paces.

Congrats on the kid.

Your life doesn't bother me it's your manners.

Let me know when :) Paces ... spare me.

[LABrit]

Congrats on the kid.

Your life doesn't bother me it's your manners.

Says the old goat that brought an old quarrel up on a different forum which you were laughed off of. Move on and grow up - act your age.

[donk_316]

Sooooo.... how about them FERRARI grey Vipers?? Pretty much the fastest color they make according to top secret internal SRT memos and every SRT engineer ever.

Josh,
Still have to meet for lunch that you owe me. Maybe this summer!

[LABrit]

Sooooo.... how about them FERRARI grey Vipers?? Pretty much the fastest color they make according to top secret internal SRT memos and every SRT engineer ever.

Josh,
Still have to meet for lunch that you owe me. Maybe this summer!

lol I'll try and make time matey! Did your bike sell btw? That was amazing!

Have you done many miles in your car? Wish I had more free time but if I'm not working I'm happy to say it's family first - the smile of my baby girl makes it all worth it!

[Camfab]

I am an attorney actually. The "law" is your legally binding contract of warranty in and to your vehicle purchase. There are express and implied warranties by law with such a consumer purchase. I'm no consumer lawyer but my understanding is that parts need to be made available through out the warranty period notwithstanding the end of production. In addition to a contract being a legally binding and enforceable legal mechanism, there may be state and federal statutes that provide consumer protection, have you "called" your law library?

More specifically, you stated that the OEM's are required to carry parts for 10 years. Where did you get that fact from? I'm giving you info., that was directly given to me. Believe me, I want to be wrong about this. I don't know squat about the law other than what I've been told by the State of California.

[uberpube]

More specifically, you stated that the OEM's are required to carry parts for 10 years. Where did you get that fact from? I'm giving you info., that was directly given to me. Believe me, I want to be wrong about this. I don't know squat about the law other than what I've been told by the State of California.

I was looking at buying a a husqvarna bike, just when KTM bought them out. I got worried about parts since KTM openly said they were going to roll the husqvarna into basically a rebadged KTM. I had an email from KTM stating something along the same lines that they would be supplying parts for the husqvarna lines for xx amount of years as per some law.

[Policy Limits]

More specifically, you stated that the OEM's are required to carry parts for 10 years. Where did you get that fact from? I'm giving you info., that was directly given to me. Believe me, I want to be wrong about this. I don't know squat about the law other than what I've been told by the State of California.

I never said that. Contact your local bar association for a referral to a consumer protection attorney in your area for edification on the subject.

[ACR Extreme]

Says the old goat that brought an old quarrel up on a different forum which you were laughed off of. Move on and grow up - act your age.

You tend to repeat yourself.

[Policy Limits]

U guys need your own showdown thread. Call it Grigio telesto snake v. Limited edition guy. Haha.

I'm getting this thread back on topic. No issues per the OP's initial inquiry. However I have noticed my idle is a bit higher than on my last one. It sits just under or at 1000 RPM's. My GTS was lower between 500 and 750 ish. Think it's because it's so new? Has anyone had an idle change wherein it started higher and then dropped down lower with time, use, break in? Only 100 miles on odometer at this point.

[donk_316]

lol I'll try and make time matey! Did your bike sell btw? That was amazing!

Have you done many miles in your car? Wish I had more free time but if I'm not working I'm happy to say it's family first - the smile of my baby girl makes it all worth it!

Bike did sell, was like parting with a family member. Offer too good to refuse though. Shame, I miss it.

I think my car is at 3200kms? Been parked since before the first snow fall back in November.

I'm sure you could strap a car seat in the ACR!

[donk_316]

U guys need your own showdown thread. Call it Grigio telesto snake v. Limited edition guy. Haha.

Hey if random dealers can make up their own editions and limited this and that, so can I! Haha!

It's funny how if the keyboards were removed and everyone was sitting in a room, all this would be way different.

[AZTVR]

I have noticed my idle is a bit higher than on my last one. It sits just under or at 1000 RPM's. My GTS was lower between 500 and 750 ish. Think it's because it's so new? Has anyone had an idle change wherein it started higher and then dropped down lower with time, use, break in? Only 100 miles on odometer at this point.

I remember this thread: https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/8810-High-Idle-Question-New-Owner

[Policy Limits]

Hey if random dealers can make up their own editions and limited this and that, so can I! Haha!

It's funny how if the keyboards were removed and everyone was sitting in a room, all this would be way different.

Yeah keyboard gangsters are hysterical. I bet in real life at a cars & coffee we'd all just have a great time together

[Policy Limits]

I remember this thread: https://driveviper.com/forums/threads/8810-High-Idle-Question-New-Owner

Appreciate that! I don't recall this on my GTS, maybe I just forgot.

[ACR Extreme]

Yeah keyboard gangsters are hysterical. I bet in real life at a cars & coffee we'd all just have a great time together

C&C's agree are good times.

We have 2300 members on a fb page and 500 cars plus followed by a small group spirited drive.

I could not be more active in car groups President of Ferrari Club etc - can't take an ill mannered person trust me I knew what would happen upon my post - apologies but it is what it is.

[LABrit]

I knew what would happen upon my post - apologies but it is what it is.

Says it all.

[ACR Extreme]

[QUOTE=LABrit;280429]Says it all.[/QUOTE


Sent you a pm - you have something to say feel free to say it no need to do this here simple invite for coffee.

[darbgnik]

It's funny how if the keyboards were removed and everyone was sitting in a room, all this would be way different.

Truer words have never been typed.


I suppose it's especially true with you, Adrian. :hog:

[donk_316]

Dude. I'm an internet warrior in its purest form! My inner autism comes out through a keyboard.

[Camfab]

I never said that. Contact your local bar association for a referral to a consumer protection attorney in your area for edification on the subject.

Reread your original post, I guess I was crossed eyed when I read your post. I thought you said decade, when you really said half a decade..... sorry

[Policy Limits]

No big. The other subtle differences I've noticed coming from 2013 model to 2017 is the emergency brake pulls up differently (better) Also, it seems the automatic feature on the windows has improved. Did they finally swap out those old regulators? The rear hatch mechanism is new but that's already been discussed. I've been told that the 8.4 screen has been tweeked but haven't noticed a huge difference to be honest. I did notice a slight gear whine only in 2nd and only on decel at 2500-2700 rpm's but it appeared to be either temperature related or a break in issue as the sound improved and then disappeared with use. The high idle has already been addressed. Any other 2017 observations or experiences worth noting here? Lots of cool deliveries lately and posting may assist those new owners.

[cashcorn]

I just had both regulators replaced and they also seem improved from my original ones. Much smoother

[Policy Limits]

Glad I wasn't imagining things. Thanks.