Suspension options for a track car

[GTSilver]

As the title says I'm looking for a suspension for my gen v ta. I have been driving my car on track for a while and it keeps on surprising me how amazing it is to drive it on track I would like to improve my suspension to help with putting the power down, especially at corner exit and mid corner high speeds. Based on my search the 3 options are available for the gen v MCS, Tractive and Ohlins. I had great conversations this week from Mark at Woodhouse, Toddy at BBG and Mike Levitas from TPC/DSC ( the company that made the Tractive for VE also as I know him from the porsche forums) and that made my decision even harder to be honest as all 3 options are great for us viper owners and their support to the viper platform. So I'm looking for users feedback and experiences with any of the mentioned suspensions and what spring rates they are running as all 3 suspensions spring rates are vastly different.

A brief of my car, its a viper ta with Arrow H/C running either michelin or pirelli slicks on 18x12 front and 18x13 rear forgeline and is used primarily for track with minimal road use, so road harshness isn't an issue just looking for the best suspension out there.

This isn't in any way to disregard all three suspensions or vendors just want to hear more feedback from users and make a decision. Also if you have any more suggestions in regards to other suspension components that I should consider please do share.

Thanks
Yousif

22828

[ACR Steve]

All 3 are the best choices you can make. Nothing better out there then those 3.

The way you have it set up now your car is begging for better shocks. It will help take advantage of those slicks immensely

The key to a great shock set up is the baseline and then the dial in. The dial in can be a very time consuming process and I see lots of very experienced racers trying to catch there tail in the process. One of the nice things about Tractive is that they have done all the baseline and then some for the Viper. It gives you a leg up on a real good dial in process.

P.S. Porsche guy here as well :)

[mjorgensen]

When you buy the MCS we provide a starting setting and after your observations I can help with further tweaking. Last resort if I can't answer I have access to those who know EVERYTHING about them Yousif. There is no perfect set and done setting it can be ever changing so logbooks are a must for different tracks, surface and conditions so having access to people that can help is very valuable when starting down this path. I'm glad you are doing thorough research Yousif either way.

[donk_316]

Tractive seems the most obvious choice.

[mjorgensen]

Tractive seems the most obvious choice.

Not to seem combative, but I have close to 380 Viper people that would disagree. All good options though.

[ACRucrazy]

I am curious how many are running around on Ohlins. They sure look nice but I never hear of any feedback from owners on them.
The DSC seem like a great option.

[GTSilver]

All 3 are the best choices you can make. Nothing better out there then those 3.

The way you have it set up now your car is begging for better shocks. It will help take advantage of those slicks immensely

The key to a great shock set up is the baseline and then the dial in. The dial in can be a very time consuming process and I see lots of very experienced racers trying to catch there tail in the process. One of the nice things about Tractive is that they have done all the baseline and then some for the Viper. It gives you a leg up on a real good dial in process.

P.S. Porsche guy here as well :)

All 3 have their own baseline setup and in terms of dial in later in terms of tracks is all dependent on the end of user. Tractive is a bit different as you can run 2 setups with a switch of a button which is helpful for short track time. Regarding Porsche to be honest after getting my viper I haven't driven my Porsche on track and probably took it a couple of times only, the gen v is one hell of a car. Also how's the ACR OEM suspension thinking of changing that in the future ?

[GTSilver]

When you buy the MCS we provide a starting setting and after your observations I can help with further tweaking. Last resort if I can't answer I have access to those who know EVERYTHING about them Yousif. There is no perfect set and done setting it can be ever changing so logbooks are a must for different tracks, surface and conditions so having access to people that can help is very valuable when starting down this path. I'm glad you are doing thorough research Yousif either way.

Mark most my search is showing MCS and with our dealings together I know I'm in good hands getting the MCS just wanted to get more info before making a decision.

[GTSilver]

I am curious how many are running around on Ohlins. They sure look nice but I never hear of any feedback from owners on them.
The DSC seem like a great option.

This is one of the main reasons of writing this thread as I've been using Ohlins for years and have great feedback from them but would like to hear from viper users but can't find any reviews. Although many ACR-X have them as per BBG hopefully someone sees this thread to hear from them.

[ACR Steve]

GTSilver- You cant go wrong with Mark and the DCS system

as for my ACR I have a 996 Cup car that I race so that's the main car I track . The ACR is more of a street toy that I track only a couple of times a year. When I track it I like keeping it stock so people dont use mods as an excuse of why I lapped them :) Its crazy that my stock ACR is faster and easier to drive then my Cup car on track

[CocaineWhiteACR]

No input regarding your options but how about more photos :fpopcorn:

[FSTENUF]

2283422836
Andy Wheeler back right
Mike Levitas Yellow shirt setting up the ride height
Proud new owner in White shirt working with the Viper race team on the install
If you have this type of service and go on a few HOT LAPS with Mike all questions are answered after the first few turns !!!!!!
I am 100% satisfied with my set up.

[GTSilver]

2283422836
Andy Wheeler back right
Mike Levitas Yellow shirt setting up the ride height
Proud new owner in White shirt working with the Viper race team on the install
If you have this type of service and go on a few HOT LAPS with Mike all questions are answered after the first few turns !!!!!!
I am 100% satisfied with my set up.

I'm half way across the world, although if I was living in the states I know both Woodhouse and BBG would do the same. I know both Mike and Andy, Andy did my H/C package and took care of my car for months before shipping it and that's with me doing all that with a phone and a laptop. Mike has a great racing career and I've known him from Porsche which was since 2009. Congrats on your great looking car and I'm glad you love the Tractive did you try the ACR OEM suspension and can you elaborate more on the difference and how do you compare them. Also how hard is it to change settings on the DSC controller or is it a simple thing to do ? And which setup did you go with ?

Thanks
Yousif

- - - Updated - - -


No input regarding your options but how about more photos :fpopcorn:

I'll try to get more pictures and upload them.

[GTSilver]

GTSilver- You cant go wrong with Mark and the DCS system

as for my ACR I have a 996 Cup car that I race so that's the main car I track . The ACR is more of a street toy that I track only a couple of times a year. When I track it I like keeping it stock so people dont use mods as an excuse of why I lapped them :) Its crazy that my stock ACR is faster and easier to drive then my Cup car on track

Great car and very reliable as well. I'm actually considering getting a 70's 911 for track. I'm glad we don't have many ACR's in our part of the world and not many track their cars so I don't see one as I'm blocking the idea of upgrading to an ACR.

[FSTENUF]

I'm half way across the world, although if I was living in the states I know both Woodhouse and BBG would do the same. I know both Mike and Andy, Andy did my H/C package and took care of my car for months before shipping it and that's with me doing all that with a phone and a laptop. Mike has a great racing career and I've known him from Porsche which was since 2009. Congrats on your great looking car and I'm glad you love the Tractive did you try the ACR OEM suspension and can you elaborate more on the difference and how do you compare them. Also how hard is it to change settings on the DSC controller or is it a simple thing to do ? And which setup did you go with ?

Thanks
Yousif



- - - Updated - - -



I'll try to get more pictures and upload them.

The simplest way to put it is. analog vs digital.. Mike installed his base set up and it works great for both street and 90%of the tracks. If you have a specific track you run just contact Mike and he will email a file you just upload. The ACR doesn't have the race/street fob so you just open the rear hatch and plug your laptop in a complete new set up for the track you are on. The ride with the system is great for street use. I convinced Venem@V to switch and he is very happy as well.

[TheKosherStogie]

Maybe best to go with the one that is easiest to deal with for you in case of an issue. I had the tractive suspension and worked great. Soft on street and tightened up on track.

[FSTENUF]

Maybe best to go with the one that is easiest to deal with for you in case of an issue. I had the tractive suspension and worked great. Soft on street and tightened up on track.

Yep that pretty much covers it

[ViperGeorge]

I had the MCS shocks on my TA 2.0 and they worked great on track and were fine on the street. I wish I had the opportunity to drive a car with Tractive just to see what the difference is.

[Simms]

Another happy TracTive customer here

[Arizona Vipers]

As the title says I'm looking for a suspension for my gen v ta. I have been driving my car on track for a while and it keeps on surprising me how amazing it is to drive it on track I would like to improve my suspension to help with putting the power down, especially at corner exit and mid corner high speeds. Based on my search the 3 options are available for the gen v MCS, Tractive and Ohlins. I had great conversations this week from Mark at Woodhouse, Toddy at BBG and Mike Levitas from TPC/DSC ( the company that made the Tractive for VE also as I know him from the porsche forums) and that made my decision even harder to be honest as all 3 options are great for us viper owners and their support to the viper platform. So I'm looking for users feedback and experiences with any of the mentioned suspensions and what spring rates they are running as all 3 suspensions spring rates are vastly different.

A brief of my car, its a viper ta with Arrow H/C running either michelin or pirelli slicks on 18x12 front and 18x13 rear forgeline and is used primarily for track with minimal road use, so road harshness isn't an issue just looking for the best suspension out there.

This isn't in any way to disregard all three suspensions or vendors just want to hear more feedback from users and make a decision. Also if you have any more suggestions in regards to other suspension components that I should consider please do share.

Thanks
Yousif


What compound Michelin and Pirelli slicks are you running? What are you goals? Ultimate fastest lap times?

[dmann]

GTSilver, still following this. As i mentioned on FB, i am interested in the tractive vs MCS outcome as well even though I am a analog suspension guy.
It would be great to have the privilege of riding both setups back to back.

[FLATOUT]

Yousif, great to see you're still enjoying your Stage 2 car. I'd love to get more feedback on how the package is aging with all of the events you're doing.

The Tractives we sell are next level, a completely new technology for Viper. There's never been anything even close to this for Vipers in the past. Dumb phone V's. Smart phone type difference. Dampers that are making real time adjustments 10,000 times per second V's. a damper that you have to pull the wheels and turn dials between sessions and hope what you did improves your lap times when you go back out. Car rides beautifully on the street as well.

I have sets in stock ready to ship.

Andy

[FLATOUT]

Tractive seems the most obvious choice.

It is. Best mod I did to my Blue Viper. You're about to see these popping up on the 1500hp and up Vipers (Nth is starting to install these on some of their builds) at roll race and half mile events as well. The ability to digitally tune and create new calibrations for different racing environments is slick as well.

[FLATOUT]

The simplest way to put it is. analog vs digital.. Mike installed his base set up and it works great for both street and 90%of the tracks. If you have a specific track you run just contact Mike and he will email a file you just upload. The ACR doesn't have the race/street fob so you just open the rear hatch and plug your laptop in a complete new set up for the track you are on. The ride with the system is great for street use. I convinced Venem@V to switch and he is very happy as well.

I've lost over 50lbs, thanks for posting those pics it's good motivation for me to keep working at it lol.

[GTSilver]

Yousif, great to see you're still enjoying your Stage 2 car. I'd love to get more feedback on how the package is aging with all of the events you're doing.

The Tractives we sell are next level, a completely new technology for Viper. There's never been anything even close to this for Vipers in the past. Dumb phone V's. Smart phone type difference. Dampers that are making real time adjustments 10,000 times per second V's. a damper that you have to pull the wheels and turn dials between sessions and hope what you did improves your lap times when you go back out. Car rides beautifully on the street as well.

I have sets in stock ready to ship.

Andy

Andy,

I've got about 10-12 track days so far, based on my logs about 50 hours on track. Some may see it as abusing my viper but I think the viper is build for road racing and I take good care of it in terms of maintenance etc. So far knock on wood other than changing oil every other track day, brake fluid, pads, tires the car has been great although I had the common oil cooler lines leaking and replaced them with Speciality Viper lines from Dan. However looking maybe for more power in the future, waiting for Arrow 9.0L kit.

The Tractive based on the feedback I got seems to be really a great suspension package but most of it is based on street manners and how compliant it is and how better the ride quality is. Which is a great thing don't get me wrong but I don't drive it much on the street and looking for a dedicated suspension setup to optimize the slicks I'm running. I had already spoken to Mike from TPC and explained actually a lot in regards to suspension and is willing to work it out some calibrations if needed in regards to my driving, tires etc if I go that route. Do you have any info of any ACR-X running the tractive suspension on track and do they have different spring rates and calibrations than the ones that are already sold ?

The issue is that all 3 suspensions available are great with great support later if purchased I'm just getting more info from Ohlins as I cant find any feedback from users and getting that info from Ohlins USA in NC and Toddy from BBG so I can make a better decision based on all info gathered.

Thanks
Yousif

[donk_316]

Yousif,
You're still looking at this like a normal suspension system.
The tractive is better on the street for sure since you can tune them with a computer to be whatever you want them to be... but the exact same is true about the race setting. You can change their settings on the fly, not turning collars or clicks on a damper. Plus they are active... so they adjust themselves based off what is happening.

Honestly anything else is old technology.

[FSTENUF]

I've lost over 50lbs, thanks for posting those pics it's good motivation for me to keep working at it lol.

Andy that's great news!! 50 lbs in less then 1 year. Keep up the hard work I know it take a great deal of mental focus.

[GTSilver]

Still looking into what users have to say about all 3 suspensions. I had great discussions this week with Ohlins USA and Toddy from Bad Boys Garage regarding the Ohlins setup. As I already have run Ohlins previously on other cars and Ohlins europe has all the data regarding Bahrain international circuit in regards to valving and setup etc so Ohlins USA will get that info and setup a baseline setup and figure out valving etc. They are recommending getting a 4 way setup which will be great but if I decide to go that route I might get suspension engineers to set it up on track although that would increase costs substantially with the price of the 4 way already but as I mentioned earlier in the post i'm looking to work out the optimal setup for my use which is mostly on track running slicks.

Other things to consider that Mark had recommended was to get adjustable sway bar links as its very beneficial for corner balancing and also I was looking at spherical bearings to replace all rubber bushings in the car suspension and both Jeff Stout from VOA FB had contacted me so I can get an idea of what is needed and costs, and also Toddy from BBG. Based on my understanding that machining is requested for the control arms etc so I need to either ship my control arms or if the cost isn't that high I'll buy new sets and get the bearings in as shipping my suspension arms half way around the world and back will add up in regards to shipping costs. I'll let you know guys what I'll do in regards to the spherical bearings as I have costs of both options and suspension also when I finalize things.

What I'll do in the next couple of days is 1) get the car weighed as I did some weight reduction on the car and it doesn't weigh the same as a stock ta, 2) try to figure out what ride height I want to run based on what others are running on their cars as the track I'm running in a really smooth track and very low curbs something similar to COTA but with high elevations and high speed corners and also figure what rake to run, 3) figure out the motion ratio of the viper ta OEM suspension.

Will keep you posted regarding my decision and will post a separate thread when I try whatever suspension I go with on track.

Thanks
Yousif

[Bruce H.]

I like the way you're going about determining your best solution. Looking forward to your findings and hearing how it all performs...good luck!

Bruce

[GTSilver]

I like the way you're going about determining your best solution. Looking forward to your findings and hearing how it all performs...good luck!

Bruce

Thanks Bruce, whatever I find I'll share here as it'll benefit others in the future when they search for it. The issue is there isn't much info/threads as not many viper owners track their cars and upgrade their suspension. I wish we can get a hold of couple of acr-x owners as their cars are driven only on track and most likely have upgraded their suspension than the KW offered with the car.

Yousif

[mjorgensen]

Thanks Bruce, whatever I find I'll share here as it'll benefit others in the future when they search for it. The issue is there isn't much info/threads as not many viper owners track their cars and upgrade their suspension. I wish we can get a hold of couple of acr-x owners as their cars are driven only on track and most likely have upgraded their suspension than the KW offered with the car.

Yousif

Yousif,

I also have multiple ACRX racers that have switched to the MCS doubles and triples, I'm sure one of them would be happy to share their impressions if I contact them. There are a lot of Viper owners that do track their cars, unfortunately only a small percentage of them use the forums very often unless for researching stuff. I can confidently tell you that probably 3/4 of all the shocks I have sold in the past 14 years have been to track people. Although I have never been to your track in Bahrain every car is different so unless they have run a Viper there not better than any other manufacturers data. MCS has cars all over Europe running in many series, many types of cars, they have tons of experience in their corner so if I cannot help they will always be there ready to help your particular set up needs. FWIW

[AZTVR]

If performance in the intended usage is "equal", then I would want the more robust, proven technology.
New tech is great; but, for a track car, I wouldn't want added complexity as a factor. On each system; which is more likely to be easily diagnosed and fixed locally, and have parts or component replacements available quickly.

[serpent]

I've lost over 50lbs, thanks for posting those pics it's good motivation for me to keep working at it lol.
Not to detract from this thread, at least I hope you arent tucking in your shirt under the skivvies. :lol2:

[stradman]

Sorry to resurrect this thread but was interested to see where Yousif got in all of this? What was his decision in the end. Are dynamic suspensions that much better than stock OEM ACR Bilsteins purely on track? Are lap times better and if so by how much? Just interested to hear further opinions. I'm not so interested in street driving as car is for track primarily.

[Unorthodox]

I would go Tractive.

[Dan Cragin]

For a track car I would go with the MCS setup.

Penske EMI has a really hi end offering, but the expense is only worth it if you really understand how to use it and are driving at 100%.