Dyno with VE Heads and Cams and Im very happy

[DADS ACR]

I finally had a chance to put the car on the dyno last night and I have to say it surprised me. I am very happy!
Car has the usual ACRE stuff along with the Viper Exchange(Arrow) H&C, tune, AR headers, under drive pulley, no cats, and titanium exhaust. Good Lord that exhaust is LOUD! :dude3:

The first run was unusual because the car was spinning. We made some adjustments and tightened it down and it fixed the problem.

22244

The shop, Real Street Performance just sent me a picture of the car - cool.

22246

[Jet Slicker]

Looks amazing! And I'm slightly confused, is this with the Arrow PCM canned tune?

[biturboamg]

Strong numbers! Does the Ti exhaust chang and HP gain or just the weight and sound? Also how much power is lost with cats vs no cats? Congrats and enjoy!

[Murpowa]

Very nice

[Dman]

That may be the strongest numbers. Amazing for a package with a warranty and essentially tuned out of the can by Dick himself, with all the reliability you'd expect with that. What a fantastic setup. Congrats.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

Very nice numbers!! Thanks for sharing.

[ACRucrazy]

I have yet to see a 7XX number from any head/cam Gen IV/V.

NICE!!!!

[pdv25]

Very nice! Congrats!

[DADS ACR]

Thank you to everyone and its a great package. Can't wait to see what the stroker will bring. :fpopcorn:


Looks amazing! And I'm slightly confused, is this with the Arrow PCM canned tune?

Yes, its the canned tune from Arrow. They apparently hit the nail on the head!


Strong numbers! Does the Ti exhaust chang and HP gain or just the weight and sound? Also how much power is lost with cats vs no cats? Congrats and enjoy!

I know the cats did quiet it down a great deal and they are restrictive. I think the Ti exhaust did free up the motor for additional HP.


Very nice numbers!! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Andy!! Appreciate all your help!

[FLATOUT]

Keith it's been a pleasure working with you both on the initial build and as you've tweaked it along the way.

Look forward to working with you on the next go round :)

Andy

[1.8t]

Great numbers.

[Jprince]

My ve heads and cam car only made 630hp. Is this headers, exhaust and no cats worth 80hp over my belenger full exhaust with cats? Or has there been changes made to the heads and cam?

[Snorman]

I finally had a chance to put the car on the dyno last night and I have to say it surprised me. I am very happy!
Car has the usual ACRE stuff along with the Viper Exchange(Arrow) H&C, tune, AR headers, under drive pulley, no cats, and titanium exhaust. Good Lord that exhaust is LOUD! :dude3:

The first run was unusual because the car was spinning. We made some adjustments and tightened it down and it fixed the problem.

The shop, Real Street Performance just sent me a picture of the car - cool.
Are you heading down to C&C on Saturday?
I'm thinking about it. Have a ton of track events coming up over the next few months and not sure I'll get to another one while the weather is nice and cool.
S.

[7TH_SIGN]

Real St. are a bunch of standup guys. I've done business with them. Excellent shop and service. Great numbers. Congrats! Your ACR looks awesome.

[FLATOUT]

My ve heads and cam car only made 630hp. Is this headers, exhaust and no cats worth 80hp over my belenger full exhaust with cats? Or has there been changes made to the heads and cam?

Exact same package, same gains, different dyno. I'm sure car would make similar numbers on that dyno. Bellangers do eat a few but not much.

[cashcorn]

cats are probably 20-25hp. +, is your catback 2.5 or 3" maybe another 20-25hp. anyways, i'm sure it hauls ass!

[1evilviper]

Awesome numbers, I have the exact same mods and my car trapped 141.6mph in the 1/4mile but has yet to be on a dyno...I can't wait to see what mine dynos

[dethred]

Between pdv and this, I'm wondering if these are some of the first cars we've seen results from that aren't pulling as much timing due to IAT. Would be interesting to see these same cars do another pull on the same dynos in mid June to compare.

[FLATOUT]

Between pdv and this, I'm wondering if these are some of the first cars we've seen results from that aren't pulling as much timing due to IAT. Would be interesting to see these same cars do another pull on the same dynos in mid June to compare.

Nope just different dynos. Being the guy that manages all these builds, and having seen them dyno'd in both cold and warm conditions I can tell you with confidence that post correction factor they remain consistent. Dynos on the other hand......

This is why I'm usually more interested in trap speeds in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile. Of course you need to understand DA and aero drag when comparing those numbers as well.

[FLATOUT]

cats are probably 20-25hp. +, is your catback 2.5 or 3" maybe another 20-25hp. anyways, i'm sure it hauls ass!

Cats are usually worth 8-10 and I'm not sure if the Ti Catback is worth anything other than weight savings.

[v10tt]

My ve heads and cam car only made 630hp. Is this headers, exhaust and no cats worth 80hp over my belenger full exhaust with cats? Or has there been changes made to the heads and cam?

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-i/34131-hennessey-headers-gain-40-a.html

http://www.viperalley.com/gallery/data/500/norm_dyno.jpg

[v10tt]

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-i/32744-belanger-b-b-forced.html

QUOTE FROM TUNER WHO DYNOED THE SET UP BACK TO BACK.

I put this car together with a Roe. The car already had Belanger headers. I knew the car was low on power for the set up. My opinion was the loss of power was in the headers. I finally talked the owner into replacing the headers. The graph shows the gains. Run 1 is with the Belanger headers, cool engine. Run 3 is with the B&B headers (and run 3 was actually a hot run as I lost RPM on run 2, fixed it, and immediately ran the car again). The difference is with NO changes to the VEC tune and NO other changes to the car, just the headers!


http://www.viperalley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9696&d=1112877538

[donk_316]

I thought we all knew that ARH made more power than Belanger headers? It's been covered a few times

[pdv25]

Between pdv and this, I'm wondering if these are some of the first cars we've seen results from that aren't pulling as much timing due to IAT. Would be interesting to see these same cars do another pull on the same dynos in mid June to compare.

Not much difference in weather in South Florida from January to June. It was 80 degrees and had a IAT of 94 when I dynoed.

[ChevyChad]

Awesome!!!

[Stealth78]

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-i/32744-belanger-b-b-forced.html

QUOTE FROM TUNER WHO DYNOED THE SET UP BACK TO BACK.



http://www.viperalley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9696&d=1112877538

So there was an increase of 38HP between Belanger and B&B? Which set of B&B headers? B&B offers two different styles and one of them is extremely expensive. If this example went with bigger primaries especially while being FI that's probably where the extra power came from. As for B&B's, I ran a set on one of my SRT Rams, loved them! Why does it seem like not many Viper guys run B&B?

[v10tt]

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-i/26637-header-best-my-mods.html

Post #4, and #9.

from another Roe Blower car with header change.
http://www.viperalley.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7956&d=1097506872

[v10tt]

read post #17 and #28


http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/576439-Roe-S-C-with-Belanger-headers-VS-B-amp-B-headers-Graph-inside


So there was an increase of 38HP between Belanger and B&B? Which set of B&B headers? B&B offers two different styles and one of them is extremely expensive. If this example went with bigger primaries especially while being FI that's probably where the extra power came from. As for B&B's, I ran a set on one of my SRT Rams, loved them! Why does it seem like not many Viper guys run B&B?

[DADS ACR]

This video showed up on Facebook. :drive:

https://www.facebook.com/keith.brantley.106

[FLATOUT]

No offense but we have dyno'd these kits back to back on multiple occasions on the same dyno, on the same day, with different header brands and yes ARH makes more than the Bellangers consistently but it's no where near those numbers at least not on our heads and cam packages. We'll see about a 7rwhp spread but that's probably the most I have ever seen with the average typically being about 5rwhp.

JPrinces car dyno's and runs just like all the others in same day, same environment conditions.

Andy





http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-i/34131-hennessey-headers-gain-40-a.html

http://www.viperalley.com/gallery/data/500/norm_dyno.jpg

[Jprince]

I have no doubt that my car is not far off from any other v/e heads and cam car. Thanks for clearing this up Andy. I know dyno variation can be huge. My 630hp was on a local dyno and 80+ deg outside. It still made more power than any other NA car there by a long shot. [there were a lot of cars there].

[Dave1968]

One thing I've noticed about Dad's car, where's the torque? More than 100 ft/pds less than the other with the Arrow, heads and cam setup. Must be in the cam I guess, motor's not pumping near as much air as the Arrow setup. Thoughts...

[FLATOUT]

One thing I've noticed about Dad's car, where's the torque? More than 100 ft/pds less than the other with the Arrow, heads and cam setup. Must be in the cam I guess, motor's not pumping near as much air as the Arrow setup. Thoughts...

The most my ViperExchange/Arrow Heads and Cam car ever made was 601ftlbs. We "typically" see about a 60 digit delta between the two numbers.

[ViperDC]

Beast.

[chicagopd50]

So if i trap 130mph at 1/4... and 102 at 1/8 mile... what hp range am i at? Is there a formula ? Also my run was in 200 DA on 50 degrees day

[FLATOUT]

So if i trap 130mph at 1/4... and 102 at 1/8 mile... what hp range am i at? Is there a formula ? Also my run was in 200 DA on 50 degrees day

Going 130 in +200DA in a non aero car I would say you're probably in the 575 rwhp range? Somewhere between stock and a Bolton car (Gen IV or V). Weight and wind direction could also affect things.

[98intrigue]

So if i trap 130mph at 1/4... and 102 at 1/8 mile... what hp range am i at? Is there a formula ? Also my run was in 200 DA on 50 degrees day

Andy is pretty close. My car made 570whp and I trapped 133mph in the 1/4 in 300 DA on a low 60 degree night.

[dethred]

Not much difference in weather in South Florida from January to June. It was 80 degrees and had a IAT of 94 when I dynoed.

Nice! That answers that question. I wonder what it would make in 20*F cooler weather, assuming the stage II tune for H/C also pulls timing based on IAT.

[KB Viper]

awesome numbers, do you have them in SAE?

[FLATOUT]

awesome numbers, do you have them in SAE?

SAE was 694rwhp I believe, but yes he has them.

[Snorman]

SAE was 694/611.
S.

[KB Viper]

SAE was 694rwhp I believe, but yes he has them.

Those are amazing numbers, congrats. Did Dick update the cal, it seems like a lot of the recent builds have been dynoing 40ish whp higher than the before? Either way, what an awesome package.

[FLATOUT]

Those are amazing numbers, congrats. Did Dick update the cal, it seems like a lot of the recent builds have been dynoing 40ish whp higher than the before? Either way, what an awesome package.

Same package just different dyno's.

[Stealth78]

read post #17 and #28


http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/576439-Roe-S-C-with-Belanger-headers-VS-B-amp-B-headers-Graph-inside

Hey bud, thanks for the pm as well. Granted I am looking in the Gen IV section but this is what I'm talking about. B&B has two sets of headers, one at $1,959 (1-3/4), and another at a whopping $3,922 (1-3/4 to 1- 7/8). http://www.bbexhaust.com/shop/dodge-viper-srt-10-gen-4-1-34-header-wstd-collector/ and http://www.bbexhaust.com/shop/dodge-viper-srt-10-gen-4-1-34-1-78-hdrwmerge-collector/

[DADS ACR]

Here's the SAE graph.

22290

[cashcorn]

flatout has nailed it.. Same package just different dyno's...

[biturboamg]

Once I get my car done I will post the 1/4 results from a car with HC and also running at a track that sits at 5000ft with a DA in the 6500-7500 range. Last time we rented the track we had a Tesla P90D running 11.3's all day with 1 passanger or 4 of us in the car, a 650s and a 12c running low 11's, a hellcat in the low 12's, a whipple FGT in low 11's and trapping in the 138 range with traction issues and my 997.2 Turbo S running 130-133mph ranging from 10.9-11.3 depending on the 60ft which never got better than 1.89.

[Nine Ball]

At one time, I thought I'd no longer see dyno racing once I evolved from Mustang and Camaro sites. I was wrong. LOL

The only thing that matters is net gain from your car before/after on the same dyno, period. Comparing dyno results across the country, on different cars, or even the same car on two different dynos, is just silly. That data isn't even relevant to compare between.

[DADS ACR]

No Dyno racing intended, just sharing my data.

[ACRucrazy]

No Dyno racing intended, just sharing my data.

:dude3::dude3::dude3::dude3:

[Nine Ball]

No Dyno racing intended, just sharing my data.

Not you. You posted results. It was the others who started comparing against other cars, other dynos, etc... dynosheet racing began!

[Jprince]

I really never expected everyone to justify 80hp difference because of just exhaust. Once Andy said there was no change in cam/heads and tune, then it was obvious that the difference was the dyno. I know there's a few HP to be had with the perfect exhaust, but really? That's why when I built my 10sec dodge diesel dually truck, I refused to put it on the dyno to compare with all of the dyno queens that would never go to the track. Too much variation in dynos. A dyno is a tool to tune with. Not race. Besides, the car with the biggest peak HP might not necessarily be the fastest.

[darbgnik]

I really never expected everyone to justify 80hp difference because of just exhaust. Once Andy said there was no change in cam/heads and tune, then it was obvious that the difference was the dyno. I know there's a few HP to be had with the perfect exhaust, but really? That's why when I built my 10sec dodge diesel dually truck, I refused to put it on the dyno to compare with all of the dyno queens that would never go to the track. Too much variation in dynos. A dyno is a tool to tune with. Not race. Besides, the car with the biggest peak HP might not necessarily be the fastest.

10 second dually?? Sounds like an exhaust/intake/tune that got seriously out of hand. :)

[Jprince]

Lol. I used to work on the older 12valve Cummins in the dodge trucks and yes that one was my advertising so it had to be fast. It ran a 10.32@140mph. It scaled 6450lbs and was a daily driver.

[Space Truckin]

I really never expected everyone to justify 80hp difference because of just exhaust. Once Andy said there was no change in cam/heads and tune, then it was obvious that the difference was the dyno. A dyno is a tool to tune with. Not race. Besides, the car with the biggest peak HP might not necessarily be the fastest.

^^^Nailed it!!!^^^:dude3:

[mjorgensen]

At one time, I thought I'd no longer see dyno racing once I evolved from Mustang and Camaro sites. I was wrong. LOL

The only thing that matters is net gain from your car before/after on the same dyno, period. Comparing dyno results across the country, on different cars, or even the same car on two different dynos, is just silly. That data isn't even relevant to compare between.


I remember being crucified for saying such a thing back in the day... Glad to see it is more acceptable now :-)

[nx91notch]

I have always said a dyno is just a number to brag to your friends about.

[mnc2886]

I have always said a dyno is just a number to brag to your friends about.

And a baseline to determine the improvements you've made. Trap speed and times are king.

[Nine Ball]

I have always said a dyno is just a number to brag to your friends about.

Not even worth doing that. I've built 9-sec and 10-sec cars that had no dyno results. I guess I'd rather have timeslips, they never lie.

[FLATOUT]

I remember being crucified for saying such a thing back in the day... Glad to see it is more acceptable now :-)

It's always been acceptable just never seems to have caught on here. When we first introduced this kit i kept getting told that it should make more, and or dyno higher. I like trap speeds and timeslips, which I am glad to see a few more of these packages are hitting the strip this season. My record won't last for long.

Andy

[PRViper]

It's always been acceptable just never seems to have caught on here. When we first introduced this kit i kept getting told that it should make more, and or dyno higher. I like trap speeds and timeslips, which I am glad to see a few more of these packages are hitting the strip this season. My record won't last for long.

Andy

What's the Avg trap speed of the VE H/C package?