Did FCA go overboard with Special Editions this year

[Boosted Motorsports]

Want to have an open discussion about the last year for Viper. I'm trying to soak up as much info as possible to stay up to date for when I grab a GEN V ACR in the next few years. It seems like there are so many "Special Editions", "1 of 1 program", "Dealer editions", Trim levels, "True" ACR, GTC ACR.

It all gets pretty diluted and I feel like every single one of these cars is nearly different anyways. Kind of takes away from the uniqueness of having a "Special Edition" when someone can say that they configured their own special edition by making a 1 of 1.

Should be interesting to see where this all goes for holding value and which car to buy and which ones get deemed as less desirable or lower value for whatever reason. A potential buyer new to Viper must have their head spinning trying to keep track of trim levels and editions right now...:eek:

[ViperDC]

Nothing wrong with more options.

[Martin]

I think they made just enough of the special editions - and the nice thing about them is that future buyers know exactly what they're getting. The GTC program is great for the first buyer, but because each one is unique, my guess is that it'll be harder to find buyers who want exactly what you ordered.

Also, the special editions couldn't be customized in any way to my knowledge. So, while I think this is less desirable to the initial buyer (who might have wanted to add the CF interior, for example), it's easier for future buyers to know exactly what they're getting. If someone is looking for a GTS-R special edition, they know what is in it, and they can focus on the history and condition of the car during the decision process.

[BlknBlu]

NOPE, if they were still sitting unsold then yes, but they were gone within hours and in fact started another one that sold out. Funny thing I have noticed on the GENV cars and owners. the GEN IV cars were bare bones and very few options. When the GEN V cars were and are produced they are so many options it is difficult to even keep them straight and now we see complaints on these options. Apparently no one is happy unless there is something to complain about. Besides the vendor issues on the new cars, FCA did a great job in allowing an owner to configure exactly what they wanted including Special Editions for those that can not sort through so many choices.

Great Job FCA

Bruce

[OneofOneViper]

I believe the public has already spoken. All special editions were sold out in days. ACREs have been sold out more than can be produced. You or I may not understand the reason for the demand on particular models but when they sell out it's a clear signal FCA make the correct choice. I think people have drifted into either the SRT is they want the most affordable, the GTC if they want to customize, and the TA if they want the all around best in show. The GTS sold almost nothing last year as the public showed in terms of sales that this is where FCA had an unwanted model.

[Martin]

Hi Bruce - was it possible to customize the special editions? I always thought "they are what they are" and everyone got the same thing. I thought that was brilliant on FCA's part because it standardizes the cars and makes them much easier to buy. I figured that was one reason they sold so fast - people wouldn't get into "analysis paralysis" when trying to figure out what to buy.

I know with my GTC ACR, I spent weeks deliberating over options - and that almost caused me to not get my order in on time.

I'm in the "simple is better" camp - but I'm one of the ones missing the good old days when you could only get one or two colors and the option list consisted of stripes or no stripes :) It was so much easier to just focus on the performance of the car and not worry that you're going to make a bad option choice.

[BlknBlu]

Martin, you are going to have to find someone smarter than I, but I think they come optioned all the same. When I got my ACR as you know we had about 5 options to deal with.

Bruce

[Martin]

Martin, you are going to have to find someone smarter than I, but I think they come optioned all the same. When I got my ACR as you know we had about 5 options to deal with.

Bruce

After re-reading your post, I realized that I mis-read it... I thought you were saying that people could option the cars any way they wanted, including the special editions. After re-reading it, I see that you were saying that the special editions were for people that didn't want to make choices. My bad (could be chemo brain :) ).

[Policy Limits]

The special editions aren't special. The manufacturer made a mistake in labeling them as such and a formal announcement will be forthcoming.

[ACRSNK]

The special editions are nice, but they would have been a lot nicer if they did more than paint for the special edition cars. A little more horsepower or something to make the final ones stand out a bit would have been nice. Kind of like GM did with the Buick GNX, which was labeled as the Grand National to end all Grand Nationals. Not only did the car look different than other GN's with its fender flares and wheels, but it actually had a completely revised suspension and higher horsepower motor via a unique to the GNX turbo. Had they done something like that to say farewell to the Viper...now that would have been really cool! Nice paint jobs though.

[Boosted Motorsports]

The special editions are nice, but they would have been a lot nicer if they did more than paint for the special edition cars. A little more horsepower or something to make the final ones stand out a bit would have been nice. Kind of like GM did with the Buick GNX, which was labeled as the Grand National to end all Grand Nationals. Not only did the car look different than other GN's with its fender flares and wheels, but it actually had a completely revised suspension and higher horsepower motor via a unique to the GNX turbo. Had they done something like that to say farewell to the Viper...now that would have been really cool! Nice paint jobs though.

You do bring up an interesting point! It is interesting that there were never any different drivetrain enhancements (HP, Trans gear ratio, or rear end ratio) options right from the base model in 2013 right up to the special edition 2017s. I wonder if they are under some sort of emission regulations that kept them from doing any sort of performance intake or exhaust or even ECU change. It is strange though because even with the Hellcat that car is pretty damn loud stock and makes a ton of HP yet passed EPA standards?

[mjorgensen]

You do bring up an interesting point! It is interesting that there were never any different drivetrain enhancements (HP, Trans gear ratio, or rear end ratio) options right from the base model in 2013 right up to the special edition 2017s. I wonder if they are under some sort of emission regulations that kept them from doing any sort of performance intake or exhaust or even ECU change. It is strange though because even with the Hellcat that car is pretty damn loud stock and makes a ton of HP yet passed EPA standards?

Much to small of a market to invest the millions it would have taken to do power additions so that was never going to happen. any small changes would still have to been run through all the R&D systems which would all cost millions just for a few special editions.

[Martin]

Much to small of a market to invest the millions it would have taken to do power additions so that was never going to happen. any small changes would still have to been run through all the R&D systems which would all cost millions just for a few special editions.

This is my thinking, too. But, back in the Gen II days, at least they added the little things that everyone else was already doing to their cars to "claim" more power (the smooth tubes and K&N filters). Even though it added just a few horsepower, it was enough to make the cars more "special" than the standard cars.

These days, though, it seems like they wrung as much out of the engine as they could without having to re-certify with the EPA, so it probably wasn't super easy to do like it was about 15 years ago.

[V10powerr]

special editions make people feel special- porsche is a master at this. for me, the special paints are not enough but for FCA they were, sold out fast.
good marketing, people want to feel unique and each have their own story and badge and special build number. nike did this with shoes, build your own unique.
so in a nut shell, for a low production car its a an idea that worked for them.

[SharpMan]

Hellcat exhaust out the back. EPA mic test takes reading from the side.

You can imagine the problem.


You do bring up an interesting point! It is interesting that there were never any different drivetrain enhancements (HP, Trans gear ratio, or rear end ratio) options right from the base model in 2013 right up to the special edition 2017s. I wonder if they are under some sort of emission regulations that kept them from doing any sort of performance intake or exhaust or even ECU change. It is strange though because even with the Hellcat that car is pretty damn loud stock and makes a ton of HP yet passed EPA standards?

[ACRucrazy]

I believe the public has already spoken. All special editions were sold out in days. ACREs have been sold out more than can be produced. You or I may not understand the reason for the demand on particular models but when they sell out it's a clear signal FCA make the correct choice. I think people have drifted into either the SRT is they want the most affordable, the GTC if they want to customize, and the TA if they want the all around best in show. The GTS sold almost nothing last year as the public showed in terms of sales that this is where FCA had an unwanted model.

To clarify, the public did not buy all the special editions. The public bought some, dealers bought many to sell.

[bluesrt]

^^^^^^^^^^ you can still get one,plenty out there, they sold out to dealers., not public

[Dman]

To clarify, the public did not buy all the special editions. The public bought some, dealers bought many to sell.

Agreed, if one dealer hadn't bought it out, with 40% unsold still, we'd all still be posting about slow sales, lol. We're in an artificial bubble.

As for spec ed's, I think they nailed it, there are those who want "special" on their car or "limited", this is the only marketing in 4 years that SRT got right, and kudos to them, and congrats to the spec ed buyers as they've gotten something they really wanted.

As for values, lol, when it comes to vipers and my nearly 18 years with them it makes me laugh and cringe, but hey, anything is possible and it's waste of electrons to speculate on the web about it really.

[Track Pack]

In my opinion, they did a GREAT job for the final year (my only gripe is no red/white striped special edition...) Anyone who wanted could have built their very own bare bones base Viper or tricked-out, loaded up ACR-E in ANY color of the rainbow. Any color, style, hood, wheels, aero, brakes, interior, exterior accents, tires, brakes, seat belts, you name it. For those who wanted something with a special or memorable colors/scheme significant to the Viper heritage, there are limited #s of these, also. A year from now (?) or whenever the very last NEW 2017 Viper is sold, I believe we will look back and think they did fine. Those that built their killer/dream 1 of 1 will have no regrets. The special edition owners will love their cars. Some may regret not pulling the trigger later but down the road there will be plenty to choose from on the re-sale market. Our values will do better than most other sports cars and we will all love the ownership experience so in the end, we get what we paid for - a car that history will look back on favorably that will be highly desired 20 years from now and we will all have many incredible memories/stories and experiences with our cars.

[Scott_in_fl]

Amen, brother :dude3:

[Martin]

That is well said. Despite what I personally feel is a bit of post-bankruptcy disorder at FCA, especially in the Viper unit, the team managed to pull off a good 2017. I think we're lucky to have gotten a Gen V at all - in 2010 I was thinking that I had the first and the last of the coupe-style Vipers, and never thought it would come back. Here we are seven years later and we've got a whole slew of cars available that, no matter what form they're in, are so far evolved from the Gen I and Gen II cars that it's amazing. When you adjust for inflation over the past 25 years, today's prices aren't that bad either - and you get a heck of a lot more car.

I suspect the next big scandal will be when Chrysler goes through another ownership change and the new owner decides to bring back the Viper, better performing, but in a different form. Half of the Viper community will be ecstatic, the other half will be totally pissed off for a number of reasons (take a look at some of the Ford GT owner discussions to see get an idea).

Personally, I kind of hope that people stop crashing their cars so that the gene pool stays healthy, and the manufacturer lets the car RIP for about five years. That's the kind of thing that will bring the owners together, and wash out the owners who think the car is something that it isn't.

[docwviper]

special editions make people feel special- porsche is a master at this. for me, the special paints are not enough but for FCA they were, sold out fast.
good marketing, people want to feel unique and each have their own story and badge and special build number. nike did this with shoes, build your own unique.
so in a nut shell, for a low production car its a an idea that worked for them.

The difference with porsche is it seems all of the special editions have power/suspension enhancements as well....

[docwviper]

Agreed, if one dealer hadn't bought it out, with 40% unsold still, we'd all still be posting about slow sales, lol. We're in an artificial bubble.

As for spec ed's, I think they nailed it, there are those who want "special" on their car or "limited", this is the only marketing in 4 years that SRT got right, and kudos to them, and congrats to the spec ed buyers as they've gotten something they really wanted.

As for values, lol, when it comes to vipers and my nearly 18 years with them it makes me laugh and cringe, but hey, anything is possible and it's waste of electrons to speculate on the web about it really.

Agreed. Also, not all of the special editions are sold out. I know that's what's being said but you can still find several for sale, especially the GTS-R. Some of the editions definitely have been sold out but not all. Ask the dealers and snoop around.

[1ststrike]

I agree and well said!

[Donato]

Back when I was a kid, a buddy of mine put a big chrome Special Edition badge on the dash of his Dodge Neon in addition to some other flashy trim he found at Pep-Boys. I sat in the passenger seat and said; “Is it this really a Special Edition?”, his reply was “IT IS NOW!”, so I guess you can’t really argue about that.

Well anyway I don’t have a Viper yet, so my comments actually mean less than nothing on this Forum, but I’ve been looking for a few months now and I’ve reviewed many, many sales adds, seen a few locally, and I keep up with pretty much everything on this Forum. Now that I know a little more about Vipers, it seems in the history of Viper there were multiple Viper production “sprints” within each model year where there are special/rare/last edition X of X builds and it all just becomes meaningless and convoluted to a point of obscurity, to me at least. Now I know there are truly rare Vipers like the Nurburgring or even the Voodoo edition for example, but every time a seller pitches their car to me like they have this super rare 1 of only 3 built in this color with these options for this year and the other 2 were crashed and this is the only one in the world and that’s why I’m asking this premium… It becomes offensive at a point.

If you were to ask me, you can only hear and read so many stories about how every Viper built is a special/rare/last edition before you become jaded with the Viper brand so IDK if overdoing it this year was really a good thing for Viper down the road as far as collectibility, but again I really don’t know too much about it so take it with a grain of salt and I’m not buying a Viper for reasons of collectibility anyway…

[Policy Limits]

The paint Sucks!!!!

[SharpMan]

For the most part I agree with you.

I think everyone has lost sight of the fact the Viper is an incredibly rare car and the TA, TA2.0, ACR and ACR-E are already incredible variations on it.

I find it interesting that there were a number of 1 of 1 builds that preceded the special editions but in nearly identical colour combos (GTS-R, Black with red centre and driver stripe etc...).

And while I agree with others that more than just paint is necessary for ME to see future value I can appreciate that this program was already maxed out. I mean how were they going to extract more performance than the ACR-E without major investment?

Lastly, I can also appreciate that having a car you feel is special is fun and enjoyable. I'm looking froward to by ACR-E even though it's just Gunmetal grey but I can imagine that someone else will get a real kick out of opening their garage door and driving a limited edition.


Back when I was a kid, a buddy of mine put a big chrome Special Edition badge on the dash of his Dodge Neon in addition to some other flashy trim he found at Pep-Boys. I sat in the passenger seat and said; “Is it this really a Special Edition?”, his reply was “IT IS NOW!”, so I guess you can’t really argue about that.

Well anyway I don’t have a Viper yet, so my comments actually mean less than nothing on this Forum, but I’ve been looking for a few months now and I’ve reviewed many, many sales adds, seen a few locally, and I keep up with pretty much everything on this Forum. Now that I know a little more about Vipers, it seems in the history of Viper there were multiple Viper production “sprints” within each model year where there are special/rare/last edition X of X builds and it all just becomes meaningless and convoluted to a point of obscurity, to me at least. Now I know there are truly rare Vipers like the Nurburgring or even the Voodoo edition for example, but every time a seller pitches their car to me like they have this super rare 1 of only 3 built in this color with these options for this year and the other 2 were crashed and this is the only one in the world and that’s why I’m asking this premium… It becomes offensive at a point.

If you were to ask me, you can only hear and read so many stories about how every Viper built is a special/rare/last edition before you become jaded with the Viper brand so IDK if overdoing it this year was really a good thing for Viper down the road as far as collectibility, but again I really don’t know too much about it so take it with a grain of salt and I’m not buying a Viper for reasons of collectibility anyway…

[uberpube]

How did the dealers end up with special edition stock when the special editions were "sold orders only"?

[commandomatt]

These are Dodge Vipers

Always limited production numbers since day one. Unique, rare and somewhat of an outsider always trying to show the automotive world what a true hardcore, hand built sports car should be like

Mostly misunderstood

Anyone lucky enough to own one, whether it's a RT/10 from 92, a 17 ACRE or anything in between.......knows that these cars are ALL 'special'. They are awesome, they turn heads and they kick ass wherever they may show up

Enjoy your Viper

[bluesrt]

Fuxxin a tweetybird

[BRACR]

So Policy Limits.....you are not happy with the paint....I am confused as to how this relates to the thread ( no offense intended....just confused)

[Snakebit10]

LOL..I think he is being sarcastic.

[q8blueviper]

too many special editions makes them not that special ! just another viper with that another color !

[Policy Limits]

LOL..I think he is being sarcastic.

Ohhhh u so smart .... :)

[bluesrt]

last year for big motor with the max horsepower,who wants one! I do------ get your little v-6 turbo after these,lol---------------- back to 79

[Stealth78]

Much to small of a market to invest the millions it would have taken to do power additions so that was never going to happen. any small changes would still have to been run through all the R&D systems which would all cost millions just for a few special editions.

Do you think it really would have cost that much to possibly add some headers and a slightly free flowing exhaust? I have to agree with some of the others, I would have liked to see something a little more than a paint scheme to call them "Special Edition". I think even a 25HP bump would have been greatly appreciated by everyone to accompany the paint schemes.

[Boosted Motorsports]

All good points brought up so far!

Not sure the politics of it all but if FCA themselves couldn't invest R&D to make the car faster (ie more HP) couldn't they possibly have released a few variations similar to how Ford has the Roush Mustand or Saleen Mustang etc. Not to compare a Mustang to a Viper obviously but I just mean how they have an outside company release "special editions". Perhaps an Arrow Racing edition Viper? Just a thought!

[ACRSNK]

All good points brought up so far!

Not sure the politics of it all but if FCA themselves couldn't invest R&D to make the car faster (ie more HP) couldn't they possibly have released a few variations similar to how Ford has the Roush Mustand or Saleen Mustang etc. Not to compare a Mustang to a Viper obviously but I just mean how they have an outside company release "special editions". Perhaps an Arrow Racing edition Viper? Just a thought!
....

[ACRSNK]

All good points brought up so far!

Not sure the politics of it all but if FCA themselves couldn't invest R&D to make the car faster (ie more HP) couldn't they possibly have released a few variations similar to how Ford has the Roush Mustand or Saleen Mustang etc. Not to compare a Mustang to a Viper obviously but I just mean how they have an outside company release "special editions". Perhaps an Arrow Racing edition Viper? Just a thought!

An "Arrow Edition" with 750H.P.!!! I don't care if its pink and has a unicorn airbrushed on the hood...Sign me up!

[ACRucrazy]

An "Arrow Edition" with 750H.P.!!! I don't care if its pink and has a unicorn airbrushed on the hood...Sign me up!

http://photos.ecarlist.com/NC/nm/TF/cb/JE/kK/jW/8i/NB/2a/JQ_800.jpg

[bluesrt]

http://photos.ecarlist.com/NC/nm/TF/cb/JE/kK/jW/8i/NB/2a/JQ_800.jpg

whoever did that should be written a big fine

[bluesrt]

What's the difference between having a dealer like VE versus Saleen Roush modifying the car.

Anyone who wants more hp can have it all you have to do is pay to play.

By working with a dealer you can do as little or as much as you want - it's far better to tweak a car for individual wants versus a branding package.

Speaking of playing they just arrived - time to go :)

dam! show me some voodoo,s:dancingman:

[ACRSNK]

http://photos.ecarlist.com/NC/nm/TF/cb/JE/kK/jW/8i/NB/2a/JQ_800.jpg

But does it have 750 H.P.? Lol

[ACRSNK]

What's the difference between having a dealer like VE versus Saleen Roush modifying the car.

Anyone who wants more hp can have it all you have to do is pay to play.

By working with a dealer you can do as little or as much as you want - it's far better to tweak a car for individual wants versus a branding package.

Speaking of playing they just arrived - time to go :)

The difference between VE, Saleen and Roush is...well...HUGE!!! Aside from the racing pedigree Saleen actually engineered and built their own car (S7). They also worked directly with Ford on a lot of projects like the Ford GT. Saleen and Roush are not just "dealers". They are a whole lot more than that and there isn't enough room in this thread for me to tell you why, but Google can if you are interested.

[RedTanRT/10]

Do you think it really would have cost that much to possibly add some headers and a slightly free flowing exhaust? I have to agree with some of the others, I would have liked to see something a little more than a paint scheme to call them "Special Edition". I think even a 25HP bump would have been greatly appreciated by everyone to accompany the paint schemes.

FCA cost for headers and upgraded exhaust; $2000 per unit

FCA cost to design, configure, procure and re-certify the emissions and guarantee 10 year compliance for these additions, $100,000 per unit

[ViperDC]

but every time a seller pitches their car to me like they have this super rare 1 of only 3 built in this color with these options for this year and the other 2 were crashed and this is the only one in the world and that’s why I’m asking this premium… It becomes offensive at a point.


Lol this is very true of Viper sellers in my experience in the 5 I've purchased. "Well mine's 1 of 1 with light blue, tan interior, H spoke wheels and grey stripes!" as if anyone gives a shit

[Coloviper]

Let's be realistic on the subject, the first 25 of 1992 are the most desired and the last 25 of 2017 will be the most desired. In between are all neat. The special editions are neat and nice cars but without the history for the specific generation they are built. The commemorate past cars that had meaning for their time. The 98' GTSR cars were anniversary cars for winning LeMans. That has meaning, the new one is painted to try to represent the old which is what it is.

Now if Dodge would have set each of the 13 track records with cars painted uniquely for each track record and produced 13 of each type, representative of each track, then that would have meant something for the current generation.

[Dman]

The difference between VE, Saleen and Roush is...well...HUGE!!! Aside from the racing pedigree Saleen actually engineered and built their own car (S7). They also worked directly with Ford on a lot of projects like the Ford GT. Saleen and Roush are not just "dealers". They are a whole lot more than that and there isn't enough room in this thread for me to tell you why, but Google can if you are interested.

I pretty much agree, but then VE has been into racing some time now, worked with Dodge / SRT on projects, and has the Force 1 Supercar. There's a gap, but is it big enough for a ton of sarcasm about it, even I don't think so.

[SharpMan]

Not that I care but I wonder if mine will be in the last 25...not supposed to get it until April.


Let's be realistic on the subject, the first 25 of 1992 are the most desired and the last 25 of 2017 will be the most desired. In between are all neat. The special editions are neat and nice cars but without the history for the specific generation they are built. The commemorate past cars that had meaning for their time. The 98' GTSR cars were anniversary cars for winning LeMans. That has meaning, the new one is painted to try to represent the old which is what it is.

Now if Dodge would have set each of the 13 track records with cars painted uniquely for each track record and produced 13 of each type, representative of each track, then that would have meant something for the current generation.

[commandomatt]

Not that I care but I wonder if mine will be in the last 25...not supposed to get it until April.

Those last 25 will be built while there is a total party going on down the line. Dont be surprised to find empty beer bottles, notes and signatures where you would least expect them. Of course, they will also receive the last of the last parts and if they do run out of something, you may see some stuff from a Caravan in there :very_drunk:

[BlknBlu]

Those last 25 will be built while there is a total party going on down the line. Dont be surprised to find empty beer bottles, notes and signatures where you would least expect them. Of course, they will also receive the last of the last parts and if they do run out of something, you may see some stuff from a Caravan in there :very_drunk:

Cool, maybe I can get one with a GEN IV motor.....lol

Bruce

[Stealth78]

Cool, maybe I can get one with a GEN IV motor.....lol

Bruce

Now that's funny right there! Haha

[Track Pack]

I wonder if all of their 55 GTS-Rs are sold? I was surprised that for 2017, Dodge didn't replicate the blue interior accents as the '98 and '06 models had...?

[ACRucrazy]

"Special editions SOLD OUT in mere minutes!!!"


















to dealers

[ACRSNK]

I pretty much agree, but then VE has been into racing some time now, worked with Dodge / SRT on projects, and has the Force 1 Supercar. There's a gap, but is it big enough for a ton of sarcasm about it, even I don't think so.

VE is not in the same league as Saleen or Roush. Not even close. Don't care that they also race, the pedigree is just not there.

[ACRucrazy]

Can you please tell me why you and others here are so obsessed or bothered by a dealer buying a car.

You realize that's what they do for a living - right?

Can't figure out why there are so many posts that just pound dealers who are active and all seem to be very good guys and gals and from what I have seen so far they offer them at MSRP - try buying a GT350R at MSRP it's 30 50k over or better yet a new Ferrari Lamborghini Porsche that are Special Edition.

I ordered my first Viper no deposit no money down and still have not given VE a dime and yet they ordered and are taking delivery.

What am I missing this has been the easiest most fun car ever bought.

Not bothered. I am glad you are happy with MSRP.
Enjoy your ACR!

[Camfab]

The difference between VE, Saleen and Roush is...well...HUGE!!! Aside from the racing pedigree Saleen actually engineered and built their own car (S7). They also worked directly with Ford on a lot of projects like the Ford GT. Saleen and Roush are not just "dealers". They are a whole lot more than that and there isn't enough room in this thread for me to tell you why, but Google can if you are interested.

Your right about Saleen and Roush being long time companies with some serious credentials, but really who gives a damn? Personally, if I had the cash to buy a new ACR-E, it would be a VE/ARROW package. Not a Johnny come lately player, no matter how big they might be in the Ford world. Arrow has more pedigree as you so eloquently described in the Viper world than anyone else, a close second would be Ilmore. If history means anything, and clearly it hasn't mattered much (yet) in the Viper world, but the dealer editions from back in the day turned out to be a big deal. The Yenko cars are just one of many examples...

Again, if I ever have the means to buy a Gen V, the only car I would consider would be an ACR-E, like any other Gen, if it's not an ACR I have zero interest. Along with that it would have to have the VE/Arrow package, preferably from birth. That's where my money would land. It's the Yenko of the future.

[ACRSNK]

Your right about Saleen and Roush being long time companies with some serious credentials, but really who gives a damn? Personally, if I had the cash to buy a new ACR-E, it would be a VE/ARROW package. Not a Johnny come lately player, no matter how big they might be in the Ford world. Arrow has more pedigree as you so eloquently described in the Viper world than anyone else, a close second would be Ilmore. If history means anything, and clearly it hasn't mattered much (yet) in the Viper world, but the dealer editions from back in the day turned out to be a big deal. The Yenko cars are just one of many examples...

Again, if I ever have the means to buy a Gen V, the only car I would consider would be an ACR-E, like any other Gen, if it's not an ACR I have zero interest. Along with that it would have to have the VE/Arrow package, preferably from birth. That's where my money would land. It's the Yenko of the future.

Who realy gives a damn about Saleen or Roush? Lol...Not even going to entertain this as you clearly have very limited knowledge of both companies and their contributions to cars and racing. What you choose to do with your money is purely and subjectively your choice and no one cares. Who is "Johnny come lately player" never heard of them. While Arrow is a fantastic company and I would be first in line if they offered an "Arrow Edition" that came right from the factory as a special edition car with full warranty with their heads and cam package, they are not a Saleen or Roush, and it is not a Ford vs. Dodge thing as those companies also work on products other than Ford. It's everything about the company and the years of racing technology behind them.

The ACR is most certainly not the "Yenko" of the future either. I really wish that people would brush up on their car facts before drawing comparisons that just don't make sense. The Yenko, Baldwin Motion and Berger edition cars were all cars that were heavily modified by the dealers that sold them. They were nothing like what you are seeing in these "special" edition cars that we are seeing today. They focused on power and performance more than the paint and stickers to make their cars special and history has determined that they were in fact "special" as one can see from the premium they command at any auction.

[ACRSNK]

If there was a dealer edition from VE by itself as you stated would have made it a like Yenko edition - been saying the same thing you posted.

Only if power and performance were boosted significantly and they offered them in limited quantities, then it would have been more in keeping with the recipe for a "Yenko" like car.

[Policy Limits]

Took mine to the gas station and was overwhelmed with people taking pictures, videos and asking questions. One girl said "sir, I know absolutely nothing about cars but I know that's special."

[Track Pack]

Great post Policy, I'm sure those comments will always remain based on that iconic red, white and blue..

[BlknBlu]

I am not happy unless I am miserable and complaining.

Bruce

[ViperJon]

Great post Policy, I'm sure those comments will always remain based on that iconic red, white and blue..

You might want to look up what the word "iconic" means.

[texasram]

Much to small of a market to invest the millions it would have taken to do power additions so that was never going to happen. any small changes would still have to been run through all the R&D systems which would all cost millions just for a few special editions.

The knn cai from chrysler on the first gen acr wasnt a huge investment, and we all know that can boost 13 horses on ours

[texasram]

Took mine to the gas station and was overwhelmed with people taking pictures, videos and asking questions. One girl said "sir, I know absolutely nothing about cars but I know that's special."

Where are you located, houston is crazy saturated all i get at the pump is "can we trade"........ mabey because i dont have an acr lol

[Coloviper]

Let's come to reality, what can be done in 2017 is far less than what can get done from back in 1969 from a post factory, dealer modification. You can not motor swap and meet EPA emissions, etc. I have owned numerous Saleens since 1987 and still own two today. Saleen of today is NOT Saleen the small vehicle Federally recognized manufacturer from the past. Roush never was and has always been just a tuner despite a close relationship with Ford.

Saleen today is just a tuner. Why? Because in all the bankruptcies and ownership changes prior to 2009, it bounced around until it ended up with ASC in Michigan when Shields and others were the execs at Saleen. Where are those execs and who owns the Saleen Federally recognized small vehicle manufacturer status? It is in fact Arrow which really is all Prefix at the top!!!! Steve does not own it anymore. He owns the Saleen name but not that prior company status.

The closest we are going to get to a unique dealer modified hot rod Are the Arrow/Prefix packages and VE developed options. The phased packages, suspension packages, brake packages and other, are the ticket but very disappointed that Dodge (FCA) blew the candles out on that cake with their warranty denial BS as well as piss poor motor component issues resulting in failure.

Sorry but the VE and others Arrow/Prefix packages are the closest we will get to the Yenko, Baldwin type of car in this day and age. Not a motor swap but closest we can do. Where these dealers went wrong is not getting together and creating a numbered serially numbered car for mods and registry database for cars done and offered by the dealers. Wasted opportunity! Saleen is not recognized, not numbered by Ford. Saleen has its own numbered in top. Again Saleen and Shelby are different there as well. Shelby number was recognized by Ford. Vintage dealer mod cars are recognized by the manufacturer in the past in the VIN. Not so today.

Paperwork will be the key. If it met emissions and FCA was not screwing on the warranty and the packages were serially tracked by a second number and in a published database, the dealer mods would be the ticket and load them them. They would be worth it. As they are now, they are just mofified cars. Paperwork proving it was done at dealer is best to add a few more dollars to the car on resale but it could have been so much better.

Ralph Gilles wants to do and offer what I described with options like Venzano interiors, etc. but dipshit Sergio and especially the useless tool Tim blew that all away. Ralph knew what was right to do. It could have been so much better guys. Another opportunity blown for all.

[Policy Limits]

You might want to look up what the word "iconic" means.

And then replace it with "epic"

[Camfab]

Only if power and performance were boosted significantly and they offered them in limited quantities, then it would have been more in keeping with the recipe for a "Yenko" like car.

First off forgive me for derailing this thread, as this really belongs as a complete discussion in and of itself. Your assumption of my lack of knowledge is pretty presumptuous. When I stated who gives a damn about Roush or Saleen, it's because I personally believe they don't hold a candle in terms of relevance to the Viper as a consumer good for street use. To say that the VE/ Arrow package is not significant in terms of performance is ridiculous. Let's take a look at what we have here. Again this is relevance to the Viper. In 2011 when Viper production was dead, who was the key player in getting the car to the Ring to break the production car record, which held for many years? When the Gen V came out and everyone was complainting that there were no performance options, who in concert with Arrow bankrolled the development of a cylinder head and cam and tuning package for the Viper nation. Let's talk about Arrow, who works at Arrow racing? Gee, hmmmm., let's see Lee Carducci and Dick Winkles, the two fathers of the V-10, think Zora Arkus Duntov times two. Between those two you've got more brain trust with regards to the design, development of the V-10 than any other entity in the world. How silly of me to compare that package to a Yenko, which in all honesty can't hold a candle to what we have here. Viper Exchange also jumped in when the factory quit road racing and held the torch high for the Viper nation. But hey that's life, people have the golden egg in front of them but they just can't see it.
Will the V/E cars ever be money machines like a Yenko, who knows, but to not realize what we have in front of us and to somehow denigrate it as not being good enough because it's not backed by a household name is foolish. The V/E package isn't a tuner package, it's as close to a back door factory effort as you'll ever get. Long live these guys who've done it all for the Viper, not just for money, but for the passion.

[Purple Haze]

Funny...! But if I find a can of Bud in my trunk it's going on my wall as a true collectible!!! I wonder if I could bribe them to make my build in the last 25!!! Or call it a 2018!!!


Those last 25 will be built while there is a total party going on down the line. Dont be surprised to find empty beer bottles, notes and signatures where you would least expect them. Of course, they will also receive the last of the last parts and if they do run out of something, you may see some stuff from a Caravan in there :very_drunk:

[Policy Limits]

D'ann will probably get the last one. Owns the largest snake collection in the world and ordered each of the SE's, from what I understand, so they should have some signifigance in automotive history I suspect

[Murpowa]

D'ann will probably get the last one. Owns the largest snake collection in the world and ordered each of the SE's, from what I understand, so they should have some signifigance in automotive history I suspect

What does that couple do to afford such a prestigious lifestyle?

[ViperGeorge]

What does that couple do to afford such a prestigious lifestyle?

They are retired. Wayne sold his oil field service business some years ago at the top of the market. Two of the nicest people you will ever meet. On road trips we take with them Wayne will be out washing his car just like the rest of us. Absolutely no pretense just real down to Earth good people.

[ViperSmith]

What does that couple do to afford such a prestigious lifestyle?
Invented the pet rock

[ACRSNK]

Invented the pet rock

Hahahahaha

[Boosted Motorsports]

The main thing I am curious is if there was (or is) a Gen V that would be a truly "special edition" and end up being worth more than the others. Similar to the Hurst Edition Gen 4 that sold for crazy money last year. As others have stated it would be awesome to have a VE/Arrow numbered car. I think in terms of "Viper Performance" these would be the two companies/dealer to deliver a numbered special edition car.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/2008-DODGE-VIPER-SRT/10-HURST-50TH-ANNIVERSARY-2-CONVERTIBLE-197215

[Policy Limits]

The special editions "truly" are what they say they are. And this is the end. Bet the factory shuts down in 180 days.

[Viper Granny]

Which Yenko model - suggest reading

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/mus/2007/07/1968-Yenko-Super-Camaro/1480061.html

The ad for stripers followed by calls from strippers and the use of Pontiac wheels down the street - old school reality.

VE modifications limited or unlimited factory or after market it's the closest someone is going to get to a Yenko that's my opinion.

Policy limits great shot - the red drivers stripe is just awesome!

Back in 69/70 I lived south of Pittsburgh, PA. I was in high school, graduated in 70. I remember a Yenko Chevrolet dealership, I wanna say in Washington, PA or thereabouts. And come to think of it, pretty sure the name Don Yenko rings a very familiar bell. And I'm remembering a yellow Camaro. Hmmmm...

[Purple Haze]

I just asked Concierge if they will delay my order and make it the last Viper and call it a 2018. We'll see what they say I think they will go with it. he he...

[Simms]

Back in 69/70 I lived south of Pittsburgh, PA. I was in high school, graduated in 70. I remember a Yenko Chevrolet dealership, I wanna say in Washington, PA or thereabouts. And come to think of it, pretty sure the name Don Yenko rings a very familiar bell. And I'm remembering a yellow Camaro. Hmmmm...

One of the original mechanics still resides in Canonsburg.

[Viper Granny]

One of the original mechanics still resides in Canonsburg.

Wow no kidding. So my brain is kicking in again. Good deal.