School me on heads cam setups

[Junkie]

I would like to eventually do Heads/cam on my wife's Gen2. Back when I had one, Stryker stuff was the ticket. Now I see a lot of people going to Gen3 heads and intake, I love that look! I am not interested in pulling her heads/intake and sending them off. I would like to buy everything beforehand, minimal downtime is nice. So If I could buy a finished off set of Gen3/4 top end stuff that would be nice.

Also is tuning and issue? I can get that done locally with SCT.

[ACRucrazy]

If I had a Gen 2 I'd be talking to arrow and doing the Gen IV heads and drag pak intake.

[Camfab]

If I had a Gen 2 I'd be talking to arrow and doing the Gen IV heads and drag pak intake.
I second that. I have the Striker heads and they are awesome but I'd do the Arrow upgrade and slap the Gen V intake on it. I hate used junk. Tuning can be tricky, especially with a larger cam. They tend to have a bucking issue that can be a pain in the butt. Regardless of what anyone might tell you, you need a great tuner to get drivability dialed in, even if another car had the same exact mods.

[dave6666]

What is the cost of the Arrow G4 package?

[The Stig]

Schools In ! Everyone pay attention. Arrow currently has two (2) mule Gen 2s out there. The drag pack upper intake is the best and simples way to go- its proven. but the DP intake does give up a little HP to the standard gen4 top. This can be made up with a ported Gen 4 lower. Also Arrow has the new thermostat housing soon to be released for the package. If you notice that the Gen 3 head upgrade package has been removed from the website- They still offer it behind the scenes. Buy the package is the best way to go as all the tiny little mods have been completed- push rod clearance on intake runner due to different port location- different length pushrods- head bolts on a Gen 4 are metric vs standard size on a gen 2/3 . this has been corrected also -Add a Greg Good Cam, some of MnM Gen2/Gen4 headers and a new fuel pump upgrade and $10,000 later u are having fun. My First conversion to Gen 3 now going to gen 4 with Mechanical TB and complete gen4 intake- Gen 5 intake does not lend itself to this conversion due to two different fuel systems sensors and configurations

22030 or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=migYBXi1c0Q

[Junkie]

Whp and TQ Stig?

[99RT10]

I have a set of Gen 3 heads modified to work on the Gen 2. Still need to be ported, polished:

http://driveviper.com/classifieds/engine-and-drivetrain/p1457-gen-3-heads-modified-for-gen-2.html

You will need to change out your headers, but other than that, straight swap. Most do a Gen 3 intake too. On a Gen 4, it is lots more entailed, but there is more power to be had.


I also have a ported Gen 4 intake. PM me Free shipping on the Gen 3 heads if you want them

[SARaptor]

I have no experience with G3+ on a G2, but with my ported G2 heads and a GG cam, my car made high 500's rwhp (575-590). It is a basic setup with belanger headers, corsa catback and jmb intake. Good luck on your search and doing G3+ heads would be a cool setup! As for tuning, I see you are north Texas, James Karger did my tuning on my car at Calvo and I couldnt be happier. Calvo is currently building me a 12.5:1 motor and James again will be doing the tuning. Give Antonio a call, I am sure he will shoot you straight.

[Junkie]

James is my friend that does the tuning, great guy!

[jasond29]

Yep I went the Gen 4 route with GG custom cam. It will make an easy 600rwhp going that route. I have pictures on here or my instagram lsx427turbo. I used the Arrow powersteering bracket but honestly I like the Viper Specialty bracket better. Easiest conversion in one kit is the Arrow kit like mentioned. I believe there was a guy on here selling the kit new in box for damn near half price. You have access to all the parts, just take them off your ACR..lol.

[dave6666]

Schools In ! Everyone pay attention. Arrow currently has two (2) mule Gen 2s out there. The drag pack upper intake is the best and simples way to go- its proven. but the DP intake does give up a little HP to the standard gen4 top. This can be made up with a ported Gen 4 lower. Also Arrow has the new thermostat housing soon to be released for the package. If you notice that the Gen 3 head upgrade package has been removed from the website- They still offer it behind the scenes. Buy the package is the best way to go as all the tiny little mods have been completed- push rod clearance on intake runner due to different port location- different length pushrods- head bolts on a Gen 4 are metric vs standard size on a gen 2/3 . this has been corrected also -Add a Greg Good Cam, some of MnM Gen2/Gen4 headers and a new fuel pump upgrade and $10,000 later u are having fun. My First conversion to Gen 3 now going to gen 4 with Mechanical TB and complete gen4 intake- Gen 5 intake does not lend itself to this conversion due to two different fuel systems sensors and configurations

So just to be clear. For $10K you get:

* Gen 4 heads

* GG cam

* MM headers

* New intake

* New fuel system

* Installation

* Tuning

Is that correct? Short of delivering the car to their shop, the turn key price for Arrow's Gen 2/4 head package is $10K? And of course whatever parts they remove are returned right? So depending on the resale value of those we're looking at $9K?

And WTF is up with the air filters pulling hot air from behind the radiator? That is really cheesy.

[Junkie]

Yep I went the Gen 4 route with GG custom cam. It will make an easy 600rwhp going that route. I have pictures on here or my instagram lsx427turbo. I used the Arrow powersteering bracket but honestly I like the Viper Specialty bracket better. Easiest conversion in one kit is the Arrow kit like mentioned. I believe there was a guy on here selling the kit new in box for damn near half price. You have access to all the parts, just take them off your ACR..lol.

Does anybody have a link to the Arrow combo? I can't find it on the site.

[SARaptor]

James is my friend that does the tuning, great guy!

I agree, real cool guy and a very good tuner

[The Stig]

dave I see nothing has changed in your vast wealth of knowledge and your ability. You of all people would know what 10gs get u.. just parts .. but why would I even type that ... you already know everything about vipers...correct.. btw I did type this slow as I have been told by countless others you don't read well fast.. enjoy your new years

[Bluesnake]

Just buy a supercharger kit. Much easier and a lot more power available.

[dave6666]

dave I see nothing has changed in your vast wealth of knowledge and your ability. You of all people would know what 10gs get u.. just parts .. but why would I even type that ... you already know everything about vipers...correct.. btw I did type this slow as I have been told by countless others you don't read well fast.. enjoy your new years

lmao so let's review the "schooling" you acted like you are the god of all gods on:

1) You provide vastly misleading info on the package cost

2) When questioned about it you have a defensive butt hurt meltdown

I'm sure Arrow is proud to have you discussing their products for them.


I rest my case.

[dave6666]

Just buy a supercharger kit. Much easier and a lot more power available.

Or both:D

[Bluesnake]

Or both:D

Exactly :drive:

[The Stig]

Sure Dave we all have melt downs... just saying ... carry on being Dave .......we all love you ...

[Junkie]

No interest in a blower. She just wants rowdy. We both have other race cars

[Martyb]

If I could get the gen 4 package installed and tuned for 10k I would do it tomorrow. I received a quote from a vendor to purchase and install this package for me and it was more than double the $10k price.

[J TNT]

10 K is the price before headers and taking a DYI approach . which a few offer members have done . Call arrow, Dan from VSP or Todd from A & C performance or Dan Craigin , if you need the installed price ! All do great work !

[ICPREY]

Unless you have to have the Gen 3/4 look and a little more HP I would just go with a set of Greg Good gen 2 heads/cam for simplicity and price. Buy a set of unported heads and send them to Greg in Houston so it's a simple swap. I'm not sure where in TX you are but it might be worth a trip to see Greg. I guess it mostly comes down to your budget.

[plumcrazy]

Unless you have to have the Gen 3/4 look and a little more HP I would just go with a set of Greg Good gen 2 heads/cam for simplicity and price. Buy a set of unported heads and send them to Greg in Houston so it's a simple swap. I'm not sure where in TX you are but it might be worth a trip to see Greg. I guess it mostly comes down to your budget.

what he said plus a solid tune

[99RT10]

Last time I talked to Greg, he wasn't interested in porting Gen 2 heads. He will do Gen 1/3/4/5 heads. The Gen 2 heads have a tenancy to crack. Free shipping on the Gen 3 heads.

[Junkie]

My only issue with Gen2 parts is the horribly ugly intake. Does anybody make a nice billet intake?

[plumcrazy]

hogan used to.

[dave6666]

Last time I talked to Greg, he wasn't interested in porting Gen 2 heads. He will do Gen 1/3/4/5 heads. The Gen 2 heads have a tenancy to crack. Free shipping on the Gen 3 heads.

That may be why JM Stage 3 CNC heads reportedly flow slightly less than GG heads; the JM CNC may be more conservative?

[jasond29]

This is not that difficult. If you want the easy route just get a cam from any of the venders and pick up some already ported heads from someone, there are plenty around from forum members. You will make an easy 550rwhp and cost will probably be in the 6-7k range for everything including exhaust. Add a couple grand to that for gen 4/5 stuff, that would be using used gen 4/5 heads and intake. A guy had a set of complete takeoff gen 4 heads on Facebook viper parts not to long ago. You can send them to arrow and they will machine them for you for your application for $150. I literally just did that with some gen v heads about a month ago. You will make a good 600rwhp and depending on head porting and cam your u have the potential for more.

i have about 10k in my gen 4/5 conversion with a combination of used/new parts.
Used gen v heads 3k
Used gen 4 intake 600
Used rocker arms 400
Used valve covers 400
New cam, pushrods, lifters 2k
New twin Wilson 75mm throttle bodies with iac 1k
New fuel rails 300
New injectors 450
Custom 17/8 stainless headers 1200
Misc gaskets/bolts 500

Pulls like a freight train and traps 130's, lopes pretty decent.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2jfNpFgXRzI

[J TNT]

Nice set up Jason ! How is the drivability , do you have any surging ?
Thanks .

[dave6666]

For $10K you can also do a Roe + JM CNC heads/cam. Not sure of the dyno potential on that as there are very few that have done that but you can get close to 700 with just the Roe and stock heads.

[Junkie]

I'll say once again, not interested in a blower.

[J TNT]

If you're using your car on a Road Course then a Blower is not recommended .

[dave6666]

If you're using your car on a Road Course then a Blower is not recommended .

By who? Besides you. I know plenty of FI Vipers and none have ever mentioned that.

[jasond29]

No surging, drives great. I am still on the stock bottom end flat top Pistons so I couldn't go as aggressive as I wanted with the cam (piston to valve clearance). 232/236 600/600 113.

Your wife has a racecar already right so I assume she just wants a fun n/a car that has a different look from the norm?

[J TNT]

No surging, drives great. I am still on the stock bottom end flat top Pistons so I couldn't go as aggressive as I wanted with the cam (piston to valve clearance). 232/236 600/600 113.

Your wife has a racecar already right so I assume she just wants a fun n/a car that has a different look from the norm?

Thanks Jason , that's the same cam Greg Good recommends, good choice ! :)

[The Stig]

This just keeps getting better by the post .... holy defecation Batman ... can we say heat soak issues COULD to arise on supercharged cars on road course but I thought every well educated auto enthusiast would be aware of that possibility .. hmmm what's that other company that supercharged their 2 seater.... limp mode results----- and just to clear a few things up - JUNKIE does not want a SUPERCHARGER back to N/A set ups as per his original post request.... everyone enjoy their new year

[jasond29]

There is a set of complete takeoff gen 4's on eBay right now

[ViperTim]

Nothing beats an N/A cat imo.
And especially for road course.

I'm following this thread to see what the possibilities are. Already have a procharged car, I want N/A. And also easier for Swedish regulations.

[Viper Specialty]

Ours is still by far the prettiest :)

Our costs reflect REAL prices. You know, the ones that take into account the headers, wires, incidentals, hardware, machine work, gaskets, wiring, install, tuning, shipping everything, etc. The stuff that everyone likes to commonly ignore when discussing pricing that accounts for half the damn bill. Also to be considered, when we build a car, you are handed back a completely sorted car from front to back, cleaned top to bottom, and anything that can be rebuilt, repaired, or freshened up will be during the process if desired. We don't just bolt on the new parts and ignore the rest like most shops do.

http://viperspecialtyperformance.com/images/HeathC/hc97_1.jpg

http://viperspecialtyperformance.com/images/PatC/pc01_2_2.jpg

http://viperspecialtyperformance.com/images/PatC/pc01_2_3.jpg

[J TNT]

Nice work Dan !!!

[Viper Specialty]

Nice work Dan !!!

Another one coming soon :dude3:

[chicagopd50]

i did just a roe 710 cam.. zero head work done and gained 123hp on a mustang dyno....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKyS68w6rX4

[J TNT]

Another one coming soon :dude3:

Is it in the Buffalo area ?

[Viper Specialty]

Is it in the Buffalo area ?


Yes, stored for now. Spring project. Will not be staying here, car is from Switzerland, and heading to Chicago when done.

[J TNT]

Yes, stored for now. Spring project. Will not be staying here, car is from Switzerland, and heading to Chicago when done.

Thanks Dan , do you expect the same power as Pat's car or more ?

[Viper Specialty]

Thanks Dan , do you expect the same power as Pat's car or more ?

Considerably more than Pat's. For starters, its a Gen-3 not a 2 this time, compression and cam will be slightly bumped from the standard Gen-3 setup, and it will have the ported manifold option. I would expect a little more more than Tom's build, so probably 630RW ballpark.

Secondly, Pat's car is a poor metric, Heath's car is a better one. Pat's car has what I suspect is a weak coil, plug gap or injector flow issue on Bank 2, along with dirty filters for the Dyno since we were in such a big hurry to get him wrapped up before he took the car to FL for the winter. I won't see it again until the spring to give it a once-over on that bank, clean the filters and re-run it for the hell of it. Its only down about 20HP from where it should be, but there is definitely something funny on that bank around idle speed and low-load, so I am sure I will find something going on there causing some random misfires.

[Junkie]

Ours is still by far the prettiest :)

Our costs reflect REAL prices. You know, the ones that take into account the headers, wires, incidentals, hardware, machine work, gaskets, wiring, install, tuning, shipping everything, etc. The stuff that everyone likes to commonly ignore when discussing pricing that accounts for half the damn bill. Also to be considered, when we build a car, you are handed back a completely sorted car from front to back, cleaned top to bottom, and anything that can be rebuilt, repaired, or freshened up will be during the process if desired. We don't just bolt on the new parts and ignore the rest like most shops do.

http://viperspecialtyperformance.com/images/HeathC/hc97_1.jpg

http://viperspecialtyperformance.com/images/PatC/pc01_2_2.jpg

http://viperspecialtyperformance.com/images/PatC/pc01_2_3.jpg

Whats the price for this setup? Can I just buy the parts and do the work here in DFW?

[Viper Specialty]

Whats the price for this setup? Can I just buy the parts and do the work here in DFW?

Price range is 17.5-22.5 depending on finishing/options, installed and turn-key.

Sorry, we dont offer a parts-only package, it is far too much complication and fragile components to ship in that fashion. The closest I can get to that is basically ship us your engine [or just short-block/wiring/pcm], and we ship engine back ready to drop in/plug in, PCM pre-flashed, headers/small parts in a box, and ready for install/finishing. Cost is basically the same however, as the install portion is pretty much the same whether the engine is in or out.

All that said, if you wanted to do something "out of the ordinary", for example, a Gen-3 crank/short-block build, bump the CR, oddball cam, etc... it really should come here. We only have files ready to go for packages we have already built and tuned, and properly building a file really needs to be done with car in hand, not on a Dyno, regardless of what some tuners like to claim.

[Junkie]

I understand, as of now I'm not looking to ship the car. I'd love to buy a heads/cam/intake package

[J TNT]

Considerably more than Pat's. For starters, its a Gen-3 not a 2 this time, compression and cam will be slightly bumped from the standard Gen-3 setup, and it will have the ported manifold option. I would expect a little more more than Tom's build, so probably 630RW ballpark.

Secondly, Pat's car is a poor metric, Heath's car is a better one. Pat's car has what I suspect is a weak coil, plug gap or injector flow issue on Bank 2, along with dirty filters for the Dyno since we were in such a big hurry to get him wrapped up before he took the car to FL for the winter. I won't see it again until the spring to give it a once-over on that bank, clean the filters and re-run it for the hell of it. Its only down about 20HP from where it should be, but there is definitely something funny on that bank around idle speed and low-load, so I am sure I will find something going on there causing some random misfires.

Sounds like a project most in this thread would love to see ! Looking forward to your final results on the Gen 3 ! :)

[ACR_VP]

Adding to this discussion Arrow is currently rebuilding my genII engine that went kablamo at the track last summer, lifter blew its ass which jammed the cam, hit some valves, broke the chain, etc. Luckily there was no block damage! I was always either going to let arrow or dan take care of it, and the biggest reason it went to arrow was simply because logistically it made way more sense for them to do the work.

It should be a monster. Doing ported gen 4 heads, huge cam (still hydraulic), new pistons, rods, gen III crank, belanger headers, and a lighter flywheel. Bolting it up to a hardly used tr6060 :dude3:

I'll have lots of gen II parts for sale if you are sticking with a genII ported top end fyi.

[BrianACR]

What kind of GenII parts?? I've been thinking of doing cam and lifters etc in the near future.

[ACR_VP]

Well I'm definitely short one lifter hahahaha :-/ and you can have the cam but it's in two pieces :-P

But seriously I will have ported gen 2 heads that made 525whp on a stock 708 cam (I will have the bent valves replaced, heads cleaned up etc) in my viper, td roller rockers, belanger headers, stock forged pistons, stock gen2 crank. two stock intake manifolds two sets of valve covers, one set of valve covers are modified to clear roller rockers

[Junkie]

After some research it looks like we will most likely end up with Gen5 parts on the car, should easily clear 600whp from what I've seen. The 6060 should be installed in a few weeks if all goes well.

[dave6666]

After some research it looks like we will most likely end up with Gen5 parts on the car, should easily clear 600whp from what I've seen. The 6060 should be installed in a few weeks if all goes well.

Should be a beast. Good choice.

[Boosted Motorsports]

After some research it looks like we will most likely end up with Gen5 parts on the car, should easily clear 600whp from what I've seen. The 6060 should be installed in a few weeks if all goes well.

Who's doing the build? Would like to do something similar and have an all motor build with my Gen II later.

[SlowPoke McGee]

G3 heads on a G1? Possible?

[ILLKING]

Unfortunately not, the only option is to get the gen 1 heads ported or go with a gen 2 engine. Lot's more options with the gen 2 block and less weight. Going with a gen 2 engine in my gen 1, with gen 4 heads and gen 5 intake.