TT Viper faces some tough competition in FL

[v10tt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8fMuORwaxg

[Dave1968]

Man that 240z is freakin fast!

[7TH_SIGN]

Toyota 2JZGTE power. Even after 24 years it's still performing awesome. Reason why I've owned five Toyota Supras, such a special car. Just picked up a one owner 1993.5 factory hardtop with 29k miles. All original and stock.

That being said, I don't think the Viper was at 1400whp. If so the driver must have been in the wrong gear.

[Snakebit10]

That 240Z is bonkers. Looks a bit unstable as well. Nice runs. Cant win them all. Viper looks great even in defeat.

[Jdmuscle]

2JZ is simply better than everything else.. no contesting that.

[Snakebit10]

2JZ is simply better than everything else.. no contesting that.

I think many would contest that lol. The 2JZ was in two cars that weigh quite a bit less than a full weight Viper or Supra.

[Jdmuscle]

I think many would contest that lol. The 2JZ was in two cars that weigh quite a bit less than a full weight Viper or Supra.

Contesting is what makes life interesting.. :) that Datsun was probabaly 2500 soaking wet with the driver but I'd imagine that 240 near 3k if not a tad bit over with all the real Toyota gear in it. Nevertheless I'm not trying to put down a Viper or anything.... love them all.

[v10tt]

A street race is a short burst for 7-8 secs. You have to be able to leave RIGHT NOW! with ALL YOU GOT, if you have to ramp up d boost, start in the wrong gear so you can hook etc., you got no chance against these very fast cars.
Here is another run of the 240Z, vs a N2O Viper, although I believe the 240 got faster since this video, but you get the idea of what you need to do to stay in the race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJd4vb9GZKk

[Snakebit10]

Contesting is what makes life interesting.. :) that Datsun was probabaly 2500 soaking wet with the driver but I'd imagine that 240 near 3k if not a tad bit over with all the real Toyota gear in it. Nevertheless I'm not trying to put down a Viper or anything.... love them all.

Truth hehe. I love the Supra and its legendary engine too. One of the best ever. That cannot be contested :D

If you look at all the top modded cars they all have incredible engines but it seems its the choice of driveline, trannies and aero the mfg chose that determines the pecking order in the 1/2 mile runs. Unless you run into a rebel like this Datsun that throws a monkey wrench in that premise with super light weight and a proven beast of an engine swap lol. Love these Frankenstein's too.

[plumcrazy]

that datsun is impressive

[socal]

Is that the white Viper that was running a 400 shot? Or was it 550? Something downright explosive...

[PaulP]

The world needs more TT vipers!

The datsun is impressive but the car has a clear advantage over the viper because he has a tire on it, Your hp is limited to your traction on the pavement, viper is clearly building up the boost due to traction issues looks like a 19" wheel vs a 15" wheel fight to me. Great video, Great viper build, World needs more TT vipers!

[98intrigue]

The world needs more TT vipers!

The datsun is impressive but the car has a clear advantage over the viper because he has a tire on it, Your hp is limited to your traction on the pavement, viper is clearly building up the boost due to traction issues looks like a 19" wheel vs a 15" wheel fight to me. Great video, Great viper build, World needs more TT vipers!
The Viper was on a 18" 345 MT. Still I totally agree with what you're saying.

[7TH_SIGN]

Not trying to take anything away from these guys or their cars. But lets face it in the end it's not about what brand car they drive and more about who has the biggest check book, wouldn't you agree.

If that's the case that Viper blows the check books of every other car in that video away! A Nth Moto fully built TA 2.0. It's the best of the best.

I read somewhere else that the Viper started in third gear. Usually we could argue that the Viper didn't have the appropriate rubber in the back however these days with all the technology these AEMs and Motecs offer with boost by gear and traction control there isn't much room left for arguing it and excuses. A Motec with 345 18" DRs should do well.

I've always felt this and I've had conversation with builders and tuners in regards to TT vipers. They just don't perform like you would expect given the horsepower numbers they put out. I don't know if it has something to do with their engine efficiency or some other aspect. Then again you do have ones that do very well at TI so I don't know.

1400whp TT Viper I would have thought for sure would walk away from those cars in the video. I ran my 88mm 3.4L stroker Supra around 1250whp on the streets with a 15" rear wheel and MTs. I can only imagine what 1400whp is like on the streets.

[Rapidrezults]

If that's the case that Viper blows the check books of every other car in that video away! A Nth Moto fully built TA 2.0. It's the best of the best.

I read somewhere else that the Viper started in third gear. Usually we could argue that the Viper didn't have the appropriate rubber in the back however these days with all the technology these AEMs and Motecs offer with boost by gear and traction control there isn't much room left for arguing it and excuses. A Motec with 345 18" DRs should do well.

I've always felt this and I've had conversation with builders and tuners in regards to TT vipers. They just don't perform like you would expect given the horsepower numbers they put out. I don't know if it has something to do with their engine efficiency or some other aspect. Then again you do have ones that do very well at TI so I don't know.

1400whp TT Viper I would have thought for sure would walk away from those cars in the video. I ran my 88mm 3.4L stroker Supra around 1250whp on the streets with a 15" rear wheel and MTs. I can only imagine what 1400whp is like on the streets.

Motec or not, the tire still has everything to do with how much power you are putting down by gear etc. For instance, instead putting down 1000rwhp in 2nd gear, maybe it is limited to only around 800rwhp, because of the limits of traction available. The traction control, boost by gear etc, doesn't magically increase your coefficient of traction, it just makes it more efficient at tuning to the limits of available traction. Put a big tire on the Viper and things 'might' be different.

[7TH_SIGN]

Motec or not, the tire still has everything to do with how much power you are putting down by gear etc. For instance, instead putting down 1000rwhp in 2nd gear, maybe it is limited to only around 800rwhp, because of the limits of traction available. The traction control, boost by gear etc, doesn't magically increase your coefficient of traction, it just makes it more efficient at tuning to the limits of available traction. Put a big tire on the Viper and things 'might' be different.

I thought that very same thing in regards to traction control and boost by gear. I was wrong and corrected by a well known Motec tuner. Also an 18" 345 drag radial isn't something to sleep on. Impossible to know how bad or if any traction was lost in these runs unless the owner chimes in. Who knows, he may have been on a lower setting for the streets and not his 1400 tune.

[PaulP]

If that's the case that Viper blows the check books of every other car in that video away! A Nth Moto fully built TA 2.0. It's the best of the best.

I read somewhere else that the Viper started in third gear. Usually we could argue that the Viper didn't have the appropriate rubber in the back however these days with all the technology these AEMs and Motecs offer with boost by gear and traction control there isn't much room left for arguing it and excuses. A Motec with 345 18" DRs should do well.

I've always felt this and I've had conversation with builders and tuners in regards to TT vipers. They just don't perform like you would expect given the horsepower numbers they put out. I don't know if it has something to do with their engine efficiency or some other aspect. Then again you do have ones that do very well at TI so I don't know.

1400whp TT Viper I would have thought for sure would walk away from those cars in the video. I ran my 88mm 3.4L stroker Supra around 1250whp on the streets with a 15" rear wheel and MTs. I can only imagine what 1400whp is like on the streets.



Vipers don't perform? Lol they make 1000whp -1500whp on pump gas lol what else can do that ? Traction control is cute but what is traction control , some safety device that throws down glue in front of your tire lol no it pulls timing and cuts power lol come on now you know that, Google sal patel viper and tell me what size of tire he is running and what he has done irs record car, monster build, Like i said before great video.

[7TH_SIGN]

Vipers don't perform? Lol they make 1000whp -1500whp on pump gas lol what else can do that ? Traction control is cute but what is traction control , some safety device that throws down glue in front of your tire lol no it pulls timing and cuts power lol come on now you know that, Google sal patel viper and tell me what size of tire he is running and what he has done irs record car, monster build, Like i said before great video.

Didn't mean Vipers don't perform. Just saying they don't do as well as you would think given the amount of power they make. I've seen stock motor GEN V TT cars racing bolt on GEN Vs and I have to say I was not impressed with the outcome. I wasn't talking about the monster 1800-2000whp builds. I was talking about the 1000hp TT cars.

I know Sals promod car. 6 sec IRS record at one time and 220mph standing 1/2 mile. His car is making what around 2,000hp using twin 90mm turbos? If it wasn't for his proefi boost by gear and traction control he wouldn't have seen that 220mph. I'm not talking about the traction control that comes standered on cars these days. You have to understand that you reach a limit when it comes to power, rwd, and tire.

I still don't believe this Viper was on its 1400whp setting. At that power an almost identical GEN V ran a 8.4 in the 1/4 mile with an auto using 18" drag radials.

Maybe I'm wrong and it's just driver error.

[1.8t]

You are aware that this blue Viper went over 200mph in the half mile right? That is most certainly performing, especially for a rwd car(not to mention the drag created by the TA 2.0 aero at that speed). Regardless of these races which can be the result of any number of factors, this Viper has balls. A post on FB said he was starting in 3rd gear due to traction. The other cars were on slicks which will always be superior to MT DR's in traction.

Sals car has been 215mph in the 1/4. He could destroy 220mph in the half if the grip was sufficient enough for him to let that car eat.

[TwinVipers]

I know Sals promod car. 6 sec IRS record at one time and 220mph standing 1/2 mile. His car is making what around 3,000hp using twin 90mm turbos?

fixed it for you ;)

[Nth Moto]

First, I'd like to say that I'm excited beyond belief to see a thread on here that isn't about a warranty issue and hits on the main reason all of us love Viper's, performance!

Secondly, it goes without saying that the Datsun and the 240 in the video are very, very strong performing cars.

The good news is that we are fortunate enough to have some really solid information about this particular night in Mexico, so we can shed some light on a few things. One of the most important lessons that can be taken from this video in particular is that it is literally worthless to try to surmise vehicle A vs vehicle B "coulda' woulda' shoulda" statements. What happened is what happened, and it could be entirely different on the very next hit based on several different things. This is a loose form of racing; there is no starting light, no beam to ensure an equal start, no finish line to allow a set distance for acceleration, none of that. Case in point, 1:28 in the video... someone help me figure out that countdown!? You can clearly see in the video the Datsun leaves on his own "One!" in a 1-2-3 count race. Maybe it was the noise? Maybe it was the anti-lag fire? Doesn't matter - he left and the Viper chased for the fun of it and there's no guarantee that if it didn't happen it would've mattered.

The reason I bring this up is too often people want to use videos like this to give some idea of a performance benchmark and attempt to correlate it to track times. I can tell you that all three of the cars being discussed probably trap within 10 mph of each other in the 1/4 mile, but where they get that MPH on the track will make a big difference in how that ends up looking in this video, where the leave is everything. And using a peak power number as a point of reference is relatively worthless as well; if car A leaves with 1200HP of the 1200HP it makes for a 5 second race and car B leaves with 600HP of the 1500HP it makes for the first 2 seconds be it traction or powerband... bummer for car B for not being able to apply more earlier, car A has already gotten out of reach.

The video of the white big nitrous Viper against that Datsun is a great example of that, even if the Datsun makes more power now.

Which brings me to the topic of traction control which is a worthwhile technical point to clear up.


I thought that very same thing in regards to traction control and boost by gear. I was wrong and corrected by a well known Motec tuner. Also an 18" 345 drag radial isn't something to sleep on. Impossible to know how bad or if any traction was lost in these runs unless the owner chimes in. Who knows, he may have been on a lower setting for the streets and not his 1400 tune.

I can only imagine that there must have been some sort of miscommunication in your conversation with said MoTeC specialist - traction control can merely try to optimize acceleration for the given traction available to the tire in that particular set of conditions/surface. It can't make a tire "hook" any more than the tire can on it's own, it can only limit wheelslip to the calibrators desired/deemed acceptable amount.

All that being said, that Viper sure does look and sound good! I'm pretty sure that the owner had a blast playing with some of the fastest cars SW FL has to offer. It's a great feeling to beat on the car relentlessly all night and still cruise back to the hotel with the A/C on and a huge smile from the respect garnered from those watching a real manual trans RWD car throw their hat in the ring with some serious big tire cars.

[plumcrazy]

well said

[Junkie]

Toyota 2JZGTE power. Even after 24 years it's still performing awesome. Reason why I've owned five Toyota Supras, such a special car. Just picked up a one owner 1993.5 factory hardtop with 29k miles. All original and stock.

That being said, I don't think the Viper was at 1400whp. If so the driver must have been in the wrong gear.

Supra FTW if street racing is a priority, its just hard to out run that powerband and trans gearing. My 1200whp Supra drug several cars making more power, Vipers, Ford GT's, etc...

As far as comfort and ease of use go, I think that one goes to the Viper column. No big TB issues, no big cam issues, not having to run around on Ethanol or race gas, not having to use 15" rear wheels and small brakes, all of those are factors. I've owned 3 1200+whp 6spd Supras and 1 TT Viper making the same. My current ACR is going to NTH Moto next month for the TT treatment. I have a local friend that has a very well setup 1200whp Supra, I'm very confident with both of us at the same power level he will out run me. Then I get to drive home with the creature comforts of a Gen5 :)

Its really just different strokes and goals


Not trying to take anything away from these guys or their cars. But lets face it in the end it's not about what brand car they drive and more about who has the biggest check book, wouldn't you agree.

lol ugh, every car in this video is sub half the money invested vs the Viper...


Motec or not, the tire still has everything to do with how much power you are putting down by gear etc. For instance, instead putting down 1000rwhp in 2nd gear, maybe it is limited to only around 800rwhp, because of the limits of traction available. The traction control, boost by gear etc, doesn't magically increase your coefficient of traction, it just makes it more efficient at tuning to the limits of available traction. Put a big tire on the Viper and things 'might' be different.

I'd love to see a 6spd Viper on 315/60/15's! would be a monster

[PaulP]

Which brings me to the topic of traction control which is a worthwhile technical point to clear up.
I can only imagine that there must have been some sort of miscommunication in your conversation with said MoTeC specialist - traction control can merely try to optimize acceleration for the given traction available to the tire in that particular set of conditions/surface. It can't make a tire "hook" any more than the tire can on it's own, it can only limit wheelslip to the calibrators desired/deemed acceptable amount.

Thanks for chiming in Aaron perfectly worded, 7th-sign our cars make more torq than any other platform, which gets us out front on the hit if we can put it down. If we could use it to launch and hook we would dominate many races, I have a M150 Motec on order and i have done my research, When i was paxton supercharged 700whp car would dead hook the 345/35/18 dr mickeys, now with the new TT setup and around 900whp i can tell you on the street in mid day with the sun out heating up the pavement and 15psi in tires, There is no such thing as dead hook, Now when i go to a prepped surface 1/4 mile with 900whp i can dead hook them after 1st gear to give you an idea, hope this helps.

[7TH_SIGN]

Aaron thank you for explaining. I've said it countless times. You guys build nothing but the best at Nth.



Thanks for chiming in Aaron perfectly worded, 7th-sign our cars make more torq than any other platform, which gets us out front on the hit if we can put it down. If we could use it to launch and hook we would dominate many races, I have a M150 Motec on order and i have done my research, When i was paxton supercharged 700whp car would dead hook the 345/35/18 dr mickeys, now with the new TT setup and around 900whp i can tell you on the street in mid day with the sun out heating up the pavement and 15psi in tires, There is no such thing as dead hook, Now when i go to a prepped surface 1/4 mile with 900whp i can dead hook them after 1st gear to give you an idea, hope this helps.

Paul I completely agree with everything your saying. For a 8.4L V10 it better make power! Trust me having owned a 99 ACR and 15 SRT I know what the Viper engines are capable of. Actually the reason I got in to the Viper platform was it's big power on 93 pump. Running VP Import in the Supra does get old. I am surprised no one has throw a 15" wheel on the rear of a GEN V. There has to be an option for smaller brakes outback.

Once again I wasn't talking about the monster 1500+hp Vipers. This is not an attack on any of the Viper builders. The below video is what confuses me about a 1000hp Viper. I know we can't judge racing videos but this trend seems to be apparent in a lot of Viper vids. In this one both appear to be in the same gear and I dont hear any traction issues. Joey and Matt are both great drivers. Is this honestly the outcome you expected from a 600whp vs 1000whp?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6cm7fYUZ6U&sns=em



Supra FTW if street racing is a priority, its just hard to out run that powerband and trans gearing. My 1200whp Supra drug several cars making more power, Vipers, Ford GT's, etc...

As far as comfort and ease of use go, I think that one goes to the Viper column. No big TB issues, no big cam issues, not having to run around on Ethanol or race gas, not having to use 15" rear wheels and small brakes, all of those are factors. I've owned 3 1200+whp 6spd Supras and 1 TT Viper making the same. My current ACR is going to NTH Moto next month for the TT treatment. I have a local friend that has a very well setup 1200whp Supra, I'm very confident with both of us at the same power level he will out run me. Then I get to drive home with the creature comforts of a Gen5 :)

Its really just different strokes and goals



lol ugh, every car in this video is sub half the money invested vs the Viper...


Will, very well said and you having owned both platforms know what I meant. So excited for your ACR. Awesome brother!!! Looking forward to your ACR build! Your builds are always top shelf.

[Jdmuscle]

Here I am trying to do a lowly NA build and you guys are talking about three times the power...

[7TH_SIGN]

Here I am trying to do a lowly NA build and you guys are talking about three times the power...

Sir you own a Supra, Viper, and Corvette. I hate you.

[Jdmuscle]

Sir you own a Supra, Viper, and Corvette. I hate you.

Lol.. all of them are slow :(