Whom ever does your own service Have you experience this

[ACR PWR]

Hello everyone,

I took delivery of my new 2016 ACR last summer. Since then I put 2000 miles on the vehicle. I must say I love this car.
I performed the first oil change at 800 miles and just did my rear differential at 2000. I choose do do all my own fluid changes because I track my vehicles and I change fluids a lot and also I'm kind of a perfectionist and I like the reassurance to know that everything was done correctly. Not saying that the dealers won't do a good job, I just prefer to do them myself.

So this is what I wanted to get some feedback:
After removing the rear carbon fiber pieces and belly pan I came across this unfortunate visual. Its not the end of the world but my first thought since its a brand new vehicle I would like the whole rear under-panel replaced because its a new vehicle and also for all the inserts to line up correctly. These parts are removed often if you track your car and I don't want to be a magician just to try and line these carbon pieces up every time. The inserts for the carbon fiber rear diffuser look as if they are about 3-5mm off and one screw was forced from factory. See images.

Have any of you ACR guys ever come across this? My driver side carbon pieces line up perfectly. I can start every screw by hand and have no problems. My passenger side carbon inserts are off...21941219422194321944


Like I said I really like this car and I just want it perfect... some people may say this is nothing but I believe we can easily fix this with either a new under-panel and carbon piece....

[FSTENUF]

21949
Not sure why you removed that much of the under belly? I did my diff and trans with just the center section removed. My advise is to start over again and don't snug anything down till all the holes line back up.

[steve911]

+1 here too!

Start everything before tightening anything. That is an old Air Force Maintainers credo.

[greygt3]

Hate to say the same thing but it's true. I've had my diffuser off several times and I leave everything loose until all the screws are in place. I found this out the hard way when some of them didn't line up when I snugged them up.

[SharpMan]

Wait 'til you go "off" at 100+ mph and spin through a gravel trap. That'll even it all out ;-)

[ACR PWR]

21949
Not sure why you removed that much of the under belly? I did my diff and trans with just the center section removed. My advise is to start over again and don't snug anything down till all the holes line back up.

Hey thanks for the reply,

I actually wanted to remove all the panels especially the carbon fiber panels because I got them ceramic coated. This is when I came across one of the inserts that was basically off by 5 mm and damaged.

Don't you agree with me a little bit that since it's a brand-new car this should be replaced? I mean I wrote a big check out for this thing and I wanted to be perfect. I would deal with it if it was a used car, but I put the order and build sheet in for this thing and I expected to be in order off the production line.

Also when I do install the panels I do everything by hand and I have everything loose before I tightened them. I honestly feel it's a defect because the driver side carbon fiber piece all lined up perfectly by hand.

[ACR PWR]

Hate to say the same thing but it's true. I've had my diffuser off several times and I leave everything loose until all the screws are in place. I found this out the hard way when some of them didn't line up when I snugged them up.

What do you think about the damaged insert from Factory?
Also you can tell on the carbon fiber piece the three inserts towards the rear they're not lined up and you can see where the screws are rubbing against the carbon fiber when they were inserted.

I'm just going to report it to the dealer and document it. We'll see what they say. As a customer I honestly feel that I shouldn't just deal with it.

[Vegaskid]

Not to sound like a jerk but you bought a dodge.. I wouldn't expect perfection..
Others had great advice, loose and once all together then tighten down.

[ACR PWR]

Not to sound like a jerk but you bought a dodge.. I wouldn't expect perfection..
Others had great advice, loose and once all together then tighten down.

Yes I know it's a dodge but I wish the mentality would change about American sports cars. This is such a great car imo. I'll get it sorted out.

I'm just pretty particular when it comes to my cars and working on them.

I just wanted to see if some members experienced the same thing or most ACR owners say " no mine lined up just fine".

[SSGNRDZ_28]

My passenger side aligns fine. I wouldn't be happy with this if it were my car, especially what looks like a forced band-aid fix. Why not try to get it covered under warranty, the worst they can say is no and you can go from there?

I wonder if the drilling was off in the carbon or if the diffuser itself were aligned incorrectly? Can you look at the driver side to see if you can tell?

[NT-ACR]

Not to sound like a jerk but you bought a dodge.. I wouldn't expect perfection..
Others had great advice, loose and once all together then tighten down.

Are you trolling?

This is a $120k+ vehicle and you're going to justify poor workmanship because of the brand? Geez.

The bar has just be lowered for stupidity on this forum.

[ACR PWR]

My passenger side aligns fine. I wouldn't be happy with this if it were my car, especially what looks like a forced band-aid fix. Why not try to get it covered under warranty, the worst they can say is no and you can go from there?

I wonder if the drilling was off in the carbon or if the diffuser itself were aligned incorrectly? Can you look at the driver side to see if you can tell?

Ok great thanks. This is what I was hoping to hear. Anything can be fixed, we just have to figure it out. I'm going to mention it to my dealer and see what they have to say.

After studying it I honestly feel the carbon fiber piece came out of the mold just a little bit off. This is what caused the damage and the inserts to be off a couple mm.

Thanks for the message ,

[SharpMan]

Are you trolling?

This is a $120k+ vehicle and you're going to justify poor workmanship because of the brand? Geez.

The bar has just be lowered for stupidity on this forum.

Take it easy. It's not like Dodge all of a sudden adopts the industry's highest standards because of the price point.

While we should expect a quality product (and I think the Viper impresses in many ways) there are details that get left to a lower standard because they don't have the expertise, practices or inclination to sort them at a higher level.

Anyway, something like the above ads to the somewhat skunkworks nature of the ACR IMHO.

[Dave1968]

Yah I agree OP that Piece should be better. Looks like a bit of a hack job on some of those fasteners.

[Vegaskid]

Are you trolling?

This is a $120k+ vehicle and you're going to justify poor workmanship because of the brand? Geez.

The bar has just be lowered for stupidity on this forum.

Come on now, I'm not justifying the poor workmanship, but I'm setting expectations. Truth is that it's a dodge and one doesn't have to look to far with how they handled warranty claims to be reminded of that. Wish it wasn't the case but it is what it is.

OP has a legitimate gripe and it should be fixed.

The 120k is for the power train and the tech.. Not the lack of carpet, 3 speaker stereo, etc.. For that you buy a gt3 or merc Gts. the acr is a race car and the fit and finish is not why you pay the premium.

[Dave1968]

Come on now, I'm not justifying the poor workmanship, but I'm setting expectations. Truth is that it's a dodge and one doesn't have to look to far with how they handled warranty claims to be reminded of that. Wish it wasn't the case but it is what it is.

OP has a legitimate gripe and it should be fixed.

The 120k is for the power train and the tech.. Not the lack of carpet, 3 speaker stereo, etc.. For that you buy a gt3 or merc Gts. the acr is a race car and the fit and finish is not why you pay the premium.

I wouldn't care if it was a baby carriage, If I paid 120K it better be spot on with no Bullsh$t assembly like this. That's backyard assembly, not professional build quality. If it looks like it could be a problem over the years with R&R for servicing, etc... I would have them replace it with new pieces, if it will be OK, see if they will compensate you in some way. Just my 2c.

[NT-ACR]

I wouldn't care if it was a baby carriage, If I paid 120K it better be spot on with no Bullsh$t assembly like this. That's backyard assembly, not professional build quality. If it looks like it could be a problem over the years with R&R for servicing, etc... I would have them replace it with new pieces, if it will be OK, see if they will compensate you in some way. Just my 2c.

Thank goodness someone has some sense.

[NT-ACR]

Come on now, I'm not justifying the poor workmanship, but I'm setting expectations. Truth is that it's a dodge and one doesn't have to look to far with how they handled warranty claims to be reminded of that. Wish it wasn't the case but it is what it is.

OP has a legitimate gripe and it should be fixed.

The 120k is for the power train and the tech.. Not the lack of carpet, 3 speaker stereo, etc.. For that you buy a gt3 or merc Gts. the acr is a race car and the fit and finish is not why you pay the premium.

What a load of bologna.

How hard is it to drill holes in a straight line? Seriously.

People love to wax on and on about how the Viper is "handmade" but it's crap like this makes you wish some parts were done by a machine. At least those can line up holes.

As for the powertrain and tech being worth the $120K, please explain this to me. The ACR runs passive dampers, a traditional LSD (non-electronic), a motor that save for forged pistons and a few other minor tweaks has been around since 2007, and a manual gearbox. I'm not seeing this amazing tech and groundbreaking powertrain. Let's be clear, I'm not arguing with the fact that it's not an effective package, as evidenced by its multiple lap records.

[NT-ACR]

Take it easy. It's not like Dodge all of a sudden adopts the industry's highest standards because of the price point.

While we should expect a quality product (and I think the Viper impresses in many ways) there are details that get left to a lower standard because they don't have the expertise, practices or inclination to sort them at a higher level.

It's drilling holes in a straight line. How much "expertise" do you need to perform that duty?


Anyway, something like the above ads to the somewhat skunkworks nature of the ACR IMHO.

What is skunkworks about this vehicle? It's not like a 1M where the engineers developed the vehicle on their own time and then presented it to the board for approval.

[7TH_SIGN]

It's a Dodge and FCA product at the end of the day. I'm sorry and I will take heat for this but they built a supercar for the somewhat average guy to afford. It's performance on the track can't be argued. It can hold its own. Unfortunately you get Chrysler quality when it comes to its build.

If the ACR was built by any of the big name supercar manufacturers it would have a sticker price of $500k+

[Coloviper]

I would go the route of trying to get a warranty fix out of it (with new pieces if you can) and if "no" is the answer, then get some money back from the dealer so you can fix on your own. In the end, with any car, it is sometimes easier to just get some money back for the aggrevation and forget about it. Many times the factory fix is worse than just moving on.

This is a part that if you fly off on the rhubarb at the track it will take a beating anyway. It is not right, no matter any brand for a car of this money but is what it is.

Now I have seen parts on various vehicles and trucks that seem that off when you bolt them on out of sequence or too tight before they are all in. If it were me, I would play with the bolts installed in different sequences to see if that helps. One at back on one side, then another at front on other side, one in the middle on other side then front of first side, etc. you would be surprised how that can line it up where you never though possible. Only need a few threads to catch on each bolt before tightening down. If you ever put on an aftermarket exhaust, it really rings it home to install loose everywhere, then tighten it up in different spits to get it to fit. If you don't, it will NEVER fit.

Good luck and hope you get it worked out. Just remember that in the end, it was on there somehow. Not like it expanded in the heat.

[Fatboy 18]

Yah I agree OP that Piece should be better. Looks like a bit of a hack job on some of those fasteners.

I agree too, but perhaps the real answer here is to look at a different type of Automotive fastener for improvement? As you say OP, you do the work yourself, I wonder how many other cars are out there with similar defects with owners not really knowing?
I would not be happy seeing that.

[quickster2]

This is very straight forward IMO and has nothing to do about buying a Dodge. If everything is loose fit and the holes do not line up the dealer will/should fix it under warranty. Take good pictures (which you have) and document the mileage when this was 1st found.

If not fixed now it will only get worse with use over time.

[DZnutz]

Im surprised that most of you havent spotted these issues earlier. Unfortunately the Viper is a poor mans supercar. Ive noticed a few issues here and there, what bothers me most is that the rockers are secured to the sheetmetal frame with simple self tapping screws. This will make those areas very prone to rust. Each hole should have been predrilled and fitted with a stainless insert that would accept a machine screw instead.

[ACR PWR]

I would go the route of trying to get a warranty fix out of it (with new pieces if you can) and if "no" is the answer, then get some money back from the dealer so you can fix on your own. In the end, with any car, it is sometimes easier to just get some money back for the aggrevation and forget about it. Many times the factory fix is worse than just moving on.

This is a part that if you fly off on the rhubarb at the track it will take a beating anyway. It is not right, no matter any brand for a car of this money but is what it is.

Now I have seen parts on various vehicles and trucks that seem that off when you bolt them on out of sequence or too tight before they are all in. If it were me, I would play with the bolts installed in different sequences to see if that helps. One at back on one side, then another at front on other side, one in the middle on other side then front of first side, etc. you would be surprised how that can line it up where you never though possible. Only need a few threads to catch on each bolt before tightening down. If you ever put on an aftermarket exhaust, it really rings it home to install loose everywhere, then tighten it up in different spits to get it to fit. If you don't, it will NEVER fit.

Good luck and hope you get it worked out. Just remember that in the end, it was on there somehow. Not like it expanded in the heat.

hey thanks Coloviper,

I developed a email with images and sent it to the manager at my dealer. I believe they will work with me. They are a good group of guys.
I feel my case is justified. I just want what was expected from the factory.
Also I honesty feel the representatives from the Viper factory would say" Let us rectify this. This is a simple mistake and it doesn't represent of how we build our Vipers here in Detroit."
I know they have pride in what they do. They are building one of the last great American sports cars.

I agree with you about installation techniques. I do everything by hand and keep all the fasteners loose before torquing them down. It is amazing how you can be thrown off by quite if you do otherwise.

[ACR PWR]

What a load of bologna.

How hard is it to drill holes in a straight line? Seriously.

People love to wax on and on about how the Viper is "handmade" but it's crap like this makes you wish some parts were done by a machine. At least those can line up holes.

As for the powertrain and tech being worth the $120K, please explain this to me. The ACR runs passive dampers, a traditional LSD (non-electronic), a motor that save for forged pistons and a few other minor tweaks has been around since 2007, and a manual gearbox. I'm not seeing this amazing tech and groundbreaking powertrain. Let's be clear, I'm not arguing with the fact that it's not an effective package, as evidenced by its multiple lap records.

I was thinking the same thing for a moment. Sometimes a machine or robot can be very helpful when building cars.
I have a GTR too and I've had the all the under-panels off that car and was quite amazed of how everything lined up. The GTR is a regular production line vehicle besides the engines which are hand built.

Still love this Viper, and its just a little fastener that I want fixed. Other than that the vehicle is fantastic! If this is my only issue I have with this car I'll take that any-day... I'm one of those guys that when ever i go under my car that little area will bother me forever until i get it fixed.... haha