Motor screwed???????

[SNK3BIT]

I was not a believer in the consistent motor problems until recently my buddys Viper shows ridiculous wear at only 4100 miles and is currently at Calvo getting new bearings. Since then, i have been monitoring my own oil pressure. I religiously check the oil pressure also like literally every time i leave the house i check it. Anyways, look at these pics and notice the oil/coolant temps. The lowest one at 30psi is after a good run.

[SNK3BIT]

Mods are headers, hi flow cats and corsa catback, underdrive pulley, KN intake and had an arrow pcm for maybe 3000 miles....then had Unleashed Tuning (Torrie) tune the stock pcm which is in it now. Thats all.

[swexlin]

My oil pressure has been has low as 28 at idle, when fully warmed up, especially on a hot summer day. Others hear have reported the same. An I run with that "gauge 2" screen up at ALL times when driving, so I always see my pressures.

[SNK3BIT]

My oil pressure has been has low as 28 at idle, when fully warmed up, especially on a hot day. Others hear have reported the same.

Yes but was it previously 10psi higher at idle at the same temp and then magically dropped 10psi over 2500 miles or was it always at 28psi from the day you picked it up?

[BlueAdder]

My idle is consistently above 35 PSI when warm (oil temp and coolant temp being somewhat similar at 190F). Sometimes the oil pressure drops to 33PSI but most times when stopped, it's fluctuates between 35PSI and 42PSI.
Once I move it's always around 65-70PSI.

Granted that my car only has 1000 miles on, I have never seen the oil pressure be below 33PSI.
It's kind of unusual for me since my Focus ST runs at lower oil pressure than that, for the same temperature. Then again the ST is an inline 4, 2.0L Turbo so I would think that I'm comparing apples to oranges.

[BJG32]

Monitoring oil pressure isn't going to solve what's wrong with some of these engines. Just enjoy the car....if it pops you get to build it stronger. Unfortunately this is the mentality you must take or you'll never fully enjoy your car.

You are screwed with having the arrow PCM on the car for any amount of time ever. This is easier said then done, but I just set aside $10k....just in case. If I don't have to use it to rebuild, then I have a bigger down payment when it's time to upgrade cars.

[7TH_SIGN]

Get a leakdown test done just for piece of mind.

[wrh3]

Just enjoy the car....if it pops you get to build it stronger. Unfortunately this is the mentality you must take or you'll never fully enjoy your car.

This ^^^

My car typically idles around 37, but with the heat down here in the summer and a little hard driving I have seen as low as 28. Driving I'm usually between 65-75 at 2000 rpms plus. My Blackstone oil analysis results have been clean so far and no noises so I plan to do the same.....I will not purchase an extended warranty but will put some money to the side for a GEN IV block rebuild if the time comes. My motor is a 2015, replaced the original motor at ~5000 miles and currently have ~18k miles on the car so hopefully this motor is a good one.

[Jack B]

That perceived drop could be the oil itself, change the oil and see where it goes.



Yes but was it previously 10psi higher at idle at the same temp and then magically dropped 10psi over 2500 miles or was it always at 28psi from the day you picked it up?

[One Viper Bite]

I saw those picture Calvo posted as well. Those bearings, cylinder walls and pistons look AWFUL for how low mileage the car is.

I believe the car passed R28 and R29 as well.

[AZTVR]

Yes but was it previously 10psi higher at idle at the same temp and then magically dropped 10psi over 2500 miles or was it always at 28psi from the day you picked it up?

Do you believe in magic ?

[Mopar'er no car]

Oh Yeah, totally screwed...It's guna blow. Stand back.


Y'all are for sure entertaining over here in the GEN V section. I'm beginning to think the V stands for something completely diffrent than the generation.

[1.8t]

Where can we see these pictures?

[Boosted Motorsports]

That perceived drop could be the oil itself, change the oil and see where it goes.

This^^^

Ambient temp, oil temp, and oil weight/brand will always affect the reading

[EvilWon]

10k for a rebuild? Maybe if you pay to have someone do the whole thing and even then that seems high. Pulling the motor in one of these cars isn't rocket science and could be done in a few hours tops. Assuming you don't trash the motor block all you'd have to do is turn the crank, possibly resize the rods, replace bearings, rings, and gaskets.

[texasram]

Monitoring oil pressure isn't going to solve what's wrong with some of these engines. Just enjoy the car....if it pops you get to build it stronger. Unfortunately this is the mentality you must take or you'll never fully enjoy your car.

You are screwed with having the arrow PCM on the car for any amount of time ever. This is easier said then done, but I just set aside $10k....just in case. If I don't have to use it to rebuild, then I have a bigger down payment when it's time to upgrade cars.
if it pops you get to build it stronger? if youre planning on modding the engine, it isnt going to save you any money to wait till it pops. Drive the car and dont worry if the motor pops because you get a new one, mabey better

[BJG32]

if it pops you get to build it stronger? if youre planning on modding the engine, it isnt going to save you any money to wait till it pops. Drive the car and dont worry if the motor pops because you get a new one, mabey better

He says he has an arrow PCM...no new engine for him.

- - - Updated - - -


10k for a rebuild? Maybe if you pay to have someone do the whole thing and even then that seems high. Pulling the motor in one of these cars isn't rocket science and could be done in a few hours tops. Assuming you don't trash the motor block all you'd have to do is turn the crank, possibly resize the rods, replace bearings, rings, and gaskets.

$8k for rebuild. $2k factored in to ship to arrow and back for a rebuild done right.

[BJG32]

Where can we see these pictures?

Facebook VOA page. The engine is f*cked but passed both recalls.

[AZTVR]

Where can we see these pictures?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BestViperClub/permalink/727113440797737/

[SNK3BIT]

[attach=config]21681[/atta

[SNK3BIT]

Antonio is the owner of Calvo for those of you not in the know....

[swexlin]

As I said, I have seen a low of 28, on a very hot day, after driving sitting at a stop light. Most times, I don't get below low 30s. My car has 11,500 miles on it now, bought it two years ago with 7200.

Pressure in my car seems to be dependent on

how hard I just ran it
oil temp
outside temp

[SNK3BIT]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BestViperClub/permalink/727113440797737/


yep thats my buddys car as mentioned in very first post

[cashcorn]

I think your fine. I have seen 28 after some redline pulls & my car no longer uses any oil(1quart first 1k). You are in the norm. Don't worry & enjoy that silver beast! Just make sure to check your oil after every drive and you will sleep like a baby.

[1.8t]

Fwiw, 30psi after some hard running wouldn't alarm me.

[7TH_SIGN]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BestViperClub/permalink/727113440797737/

Thank you for the link. A lot of good info. I trust Calvo over FCA all day, everyday.

[Vette2Viper]

When it was 118 here and tooling around town in stop and go traffic I was seeing 26 PSI. That was on an engine with less than 500 miles on it at the time. 30 PSI, I wouldn't worry.

[SRT_BluByU]

Normal... have seen these readings on brand new engines

[Larryskillzs]

0-40 weight pennzoil will run around 30 when at normal operating temps. Even after a track session, I usually am around 28-30.

When I was at Bondurant, oil pressures were around 40 hot. I asked what oil they use and it's 15-50.

To the OP, of you want higher oil pressure, buy thicker oil, but to say your engine is going to blow because you are running around 30 warm..... well...... please do a little bit more research on the Viper and what's normal. Glad we could clear this up for you.

[RdyPlr1]

Monitoring oil pressure isn't going to solve what's wrong with some of these engines. Just enjoy the car....if it pops you get to build it stronger. Unfortunately this is the mentality you must take or you'll never fully enjoy your car.

You are screwed with having the arrow PCM on the car for any amount of time ever. This is easier said then done, but I just set aside $10k....just in case. If I don't have to use it to rebuild, then I have a bigger down payment when it's time to upgrade cars.


Completely agree with you. If you play (with PCM) , you need to be ready to pay, just like those of us who track our cars. Things are going to get damaged, from paint chips to trading paint and hitting another car or a wall.

[SNK3BIT]

0-40 weight pennzoil will run around 30 when at normal operating temps. Even after a track session, I usually am around 28-30.

When I was at Bondurant, oil pressures were around 40 hot. I asked what oil they use and it's 15-50.

To the OP, of you want higher oil pressure, buy thicker oil, but to say your engine is going to blow because you are running around 30 warm..... well...... please do a little bit more research on the Viper and what's normal. Glad we could clear this up for you.

I've done my research bro....

Calvo said they took apart a 2016 ACR-E with 100 miles on it to do a twin turbo upgrade and the bearings looked worse than the ones he posted with 4100 miles on it. Lol

[swexlin]

I've done my research bro....

Calvo said they took apart a 2016 ACR-E with 100 miles on it to do a twin turbo upgrade and the bearings looked worse than the ones he posted with 4100 miles on it. Lol

Not encouraging at all. Really just sad.

[texasram]

He says he has an arrow PCM...no new engine for him.

- - - Updated - - -



$8k for rebuild. $2k factored in to ship to arrow and back for a rebuild done right.
Still doesnt matter if he has a arrow pcm, either way doesnt make it easier/cheaper to upgrade internals.

[BJG32]

Still doesnt matter if he has a arrow pcm, either way doesnt make it easier/cheaper to upgrade internals.

I'm not following you. I never said it was easier or cheaper. A blown engine is an opportune time to make everything right while you are forced to crack the engine open. Yes you spend $8k on the rebuild, but you finally have piece of mind.

[ACR]

I don't know what the bearing tolerances are on this motor but it seems 0w40 is too thin.

[Vette2Viper]

I don't know what the bearing tolerances are on this motor but it seems 0w40 is too thin.

I agree and that's why I'm going to run a thicker oil this summer.

[commandomatt]

I've done my research bro....

Calvo said they took apart a 2016 ACR-E with 100 miles on it to do a twin turbo upgrade and the bearings looked worse than the ones he posted with 4100 miles on it. Lol

1 out of how many made ? Not saying that there isn't a possible issue with more but you cant assume all of them are bad based on the feedback of 1. That's not research

[SNK3BIT]

Its not the thin oil its the cross drilling in the crank that keeps oil pressure too low in the rod bearings.

Calvo plugs up the cross drilling when they pull it.

[Jack B]

There might be too much emphasis on pressure, flow volume is just as important. In addition, limiting flow to the rod bearings might not be ideal.

[v10tt]

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/10578-2003-2004-crankshaft-failures-bearing-setup

interesting read:

[v10tt]

http://forums.viperclub.org/archive/index.php/t-628811.html?

- - - Updated - - -

http://imageevent.com/bolt/piningvipercrankshaft

posted on that thread by Greg Good:

That make shift drawing are of main journals 2 and 5. They are cross drilled twice, making them what we refer to as X drilled. When the oil passage that feeds the rod journal lines up with the passage in the block the oil going into the crank is fed to 4 passages, not one (the rod) as it should. You can have great oil pressure on the gauge, but not enough oil volume to pressurize the passage to the rods bearings, leading to oil starvation. *If* you could pace an oil pressure gauge in the passages feeding the rod bearings, you would see low pressure. This mod directs all of the oil entering the crank to the rod bearings, which is what we refer to as Chevy oiling. If you buy a $4500 Moldex crank, it will have Chevy oiling, no cross drilling.

I see posts where people mistakenly believe the Viper crankshaft is not cross drilled and needs to have it done in order to improve the oiling to the rod bearings. In fact the opposite is true, they ARE cross drilled from the factory, and need to be altered in order to improve oil volume to the rod bearings.

The weight of the slug is small and it is very close to the centerline of the crank, so not much effect on balance.

I am proud of Bolt for doing this. He performed this in the car without removing the crank. He had to gage each passage and choose the right size pin gauge for it. He only had one shot to get it right on each passage. :2tu:

I've done them with the pics as Bolt used, but if the crank is out of the car you can also tap the passage with a 5/16"-18 tap and use allen head set screws with Loctite.

[v10tt]

21701
pics from the write up above

[v10tt]

Tech article on cross drilled crank shaft:
http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-51-crank-calls-part-ii/

[ViperSRT]

The concern for cross-drilling is the high speed lubricant dynamics. In engines that operate at lower speeds, like a stock Viper, high speed dynamics is not an issue. If you plan to spin it to 8000 rpm then eliminating the cross-drilling may be required. But note that if you do nothing else you are reducing oil flow to the connecting rods at lower engine speeds. There is a reason Cross-drilling is there. It adds expense but it also adds continuous flow to the rods. If anyone thinks the OEMs add expense for nothing then ... both pressure and flow are required elements. Flow is what takes away heat, preventing bearing overtemp.

[ChevyChad]

FWIW, I've always heard as a general rule of thumb, as long as you are getting 10psi per 1000 RPM you have sufficient oil pressure. 30psi at idle would not scare me either, but I don't have a Viper. However, isn't it the debris in the engines that is the culprit for premature bearing failure in the gen V's and not the pressure itself?

[texasram]

Tech article on cross drilled crank shaft:
http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-51-crank-calls-part-ii/

This is what i have been preaching since i found out we had cross drilled cranks

[Dave1968]

This is what i have been preaching since i found out we had cross drilled cranks

When did they start using them? Is it just a Gen V thing?

[BJG32]

When did they start using them? Is it just a Gen V thing?

My Gen 3 had a crossdrilled crank.

[Terminator02]

Oh Yeah, totally screwed...It's guna blow. Stand back.


Y'all are for sure entertaining over here in the GEN V section. I'm beginning to think the V stands for something completely diffrent than the generation.


How do you even know how to turn on a computer?

[Antonio@CalvoMotorsports]

Is this Justin's old car?? I told him to give me your cell and shoot me a call

[38D]

If you plan to spin it to 8000 rpm then eliminating the cross-drilling may be required.

You just need a properly sized oil pump. Many Porsche race cars have cross drilled cranks, and they run high rpms just fine.

[Dave1968]

How do you even know how to turn on a computer?

:owned: ^^^^^^^ lol!

[Mclarengts]

Tech article on cross drilled crank shaft:
http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-51-crank-calls-part-ii/

wow good read!

[Stealth78]

Tech article on cross drilled crank shaft:
http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-51-crank-calls-part-ii/

Great read! Geez who would have figured a dry sump in the Viper would have been a great idea from the factory (insert sarcasm)!

[SNK3BIT]

Is this Justin's old car?? I told him to give me your cell and shoot me a call

Yes I bought Justin's car. I plan to call you this week Antonio.

[Angleiron]

http://www.strokerkits.com/crankshaft-tech-say-no-to-cross-drilling/

[greygt3]

http://www.strokerkits.com/crankshaft-tech-say-no-to-cross-drilling/

That was a very interesting article.

[SNK3BIT]

Calvo plugs the cross drilling....I'm hearing once this is done your idle oil pressure jumps to 60psi! ��

[Dman]

Calvo plugs the cross drilling....I'm hearing once this is done your idle oil pressure jumps to 60psi! ��

Yea. He just posted a vid to FB showing oil pressure after his magic.