Food for thought Oil Consumption

[dethred]

I just wanted to maybe start a discussion about the factory filled and recommended oil for the Gen 5 Vipers. The Pennzoil Platinum stuff stuff was on sale for $2/quart a year ago, so I bought 58 units of the stuff since I have two cars that can use it... so I have used it on both of my cars.

My Viper has burned/lost 3 quarts since I took delivery of the car, which spans 10,000 miles of driving, 3 roll racing events, and a few trips to Mexico. One quart in the first 1,000 miles, another quart by 5,000 miles, and another by 10,000 miles.

I also have a 2013 911 Carrera 4S and at 16,000 miles I added in 9 quarts as prescribed. The Pennzoil Platinum is Porsche certified so at $18 for oil it was an easy choice. Up until that point the car did not burn a drop of oil using Mobile 1 synthetic. At 22,000 miles, which was 6,000 miles on the Pennzoil...? 1.5 quarts burned.

That, to me, is a bit too much of a coincidence. Has anyone else experimented with different oils to see if the Pennzoil is simply more prone to burning off?

[swexlin]

You're not the first to mention this. Curious myself. I seem to burn about 1 qt (assuming the hash marks on the 2013 (old) dipstick is a 2-quart range) per 1000 miles.

But your Viper is not using much oil compared to me, and others on here.

[Special Ed]

My car has 10500 miles on it. There were 3200 on the car when I purchased it and probably half of those were track miles at COTA. I was told that that car used a minimal amount of oil in the first 1000 miles and none after that. I haven't had any oil consumption in the 7000 miles that I have had the car. The only oil used since the first change is Mobil 1 10-40. Coincidence ? I am not going to try Pennzoil and find out.

[genVer]

I'm not exactly sticking up for the factory oil however I put 16,000 miles on my '13 GTS and did not need to add ANY oil outside of oil changes; not even during track events. I always used the factory fill 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra.

[Vette2Viper]

While still to early to tell if its the oil I have noticed this. My R28 replacement engine used about a half quart in its first 500 miles. I changed the oil at 500 filling it with AMSOIL, there is close to 500 miles on the new oil and the oil level has stayed exactly where it was when I filled it. Like I said, probably to early to tell but I probably won't be going back to Pennzoil.

On my "old" engine, which had Pennzoil, I put 1200 miles on the car and had to put 3/4 of a quart of oil to get it back to the full mark.

[swexlin]

Good comments, this is interesting.

[AZTVR]

The only oil used since the first change is Mobil 1 10-40. Coincidence ? I am not going to try Pennzoil and find out.

Interesting. I just want to verify. Is it truly the higher viscosity Mobil 1 10W-40 or is it possibly the Mobil 1 0W-40 that was standard fill in previous years ?

[ACR Steve]

My Mercedes E63 S wagon burns a quart + every 500- 750 miles aprox (depending on how hard I drive it). No issue it just burns it. I am not sure why its such and issue with everyone. Just check your oil and add as needed.

[ViperGeorge]

I use Mobil 1 15W50 in my TA and it does not burn oil regardless of how hard I drive it.

[swexlin]

My Mercedes E63 S wagon burns a quart + every 500- 750 miles aprox (depending on how hard I drive it). No issue it just burns it. I am not sure why its such and issue with everyone. Just check your oil and add as needed.

To me, that is not acceptable with any modern vehicle. But if you're OK with it, then that's fine.

[One Viper Bite]

My 13 GTS (which passed R28 and R29) was consuming 1 qt. every 500-750 miles. My Viper Tech assured me that this was normal per his training by FCA (he's been a certified Viper Tech for 13 years).

That being said, he and I both agreed that this was not a good sign and not normal for a modern engine. However, he was unable to do anything about it because FCA didn't bat an eye at the issue.

[swexlin]

FCA states it's normal because they don't want to deal with the issue. Every engineer there knows it is not.

[GTS21]

My Mercedes E63 S wagon burns a quart + every 500- 750 miles aprox (depending on how hard I drive it). No issue it just burns it. I am not sure why its such and issue with everyone. Just check your oil and add as needed.

FWIW, my 06 S65 AMG burned quite a bit of oil too. Did a consumption test at the dealer, and they thought it was normal. Added oil quite regularly, but never had any engine trouble

[Special Ed]

Interesting. I just want to verify. Is it truly the higher viscosity Mobil 1 10W-40 or is it possibly the Mobil 1 0W-40 that was standard fill in previous years ?

My error. You are correct, I had to look in the cabinet in the garage, it is 0W-40.

[darbgnik]

My old Gallardo took a quart of oil between changes, if I drove it the way the commercials tell you to, lol. If you think checking the oil in the Gen 5 is a pain in the ass, well, it's nothing compared to the dry sump procedure in G's. My Gen 5 consumed some oil during break in, up to around 1000 miles, then not a drop after, no matter how many track days. Then again, I did switch to 5W50..... it's back to factory fill this change due to the R29, maybe I'll watch the level more closely on this fill. But then again, I do anyway......

[quickster2]

I just wanted to maybe start a discussion about the factory filled and recommended oil for the Gen 5 Vipers. The Pennzoil Platinum stuff stuff was on sale for $2/quart a year ago, so I bought 58 units of the stuff since I have two cars that can use it... so I have used it on both of my cars.

My Viper has burned/lost 3 quarts since I took delivery of the car, which spans 10,000 miles of driving, 3 roll racing events, and a few trips to Mexico. One quart in the first 1,000 miles, another quart by 5,000 miles, and another by 10,000 miles.

I also have a 2013 911 Carrera 4S and at 16,000 miles I added in 9 quarts as prescribed. The Pennzoil Platinum is Porsche certified so at $18 for oil it was an easy choice. Up until that point the car did not burn a drop of oil using Mobile 1 synthetic. At 22,000 miles, which was 6,000 miles on the Pennzoil...? 1.5 quarts burned.

That, to me, is a bit too much of a coincidence. Has anyone else experimented with different oils to see if the Pennzoil is simply more prone to burning off?

Just confirming you are talking about Pennzoil Ultra Platinum and not Pennzoil Platinum? Thx

[Larryskillzs]

Bondurant guys use 15w-50 all year long, say their engines don't consume much oil.

Maybe the 0-40 is just too thin for these engines. I might reconsider 0-40....

[ek1]

Buddy's BMW 650xi Gran Coupe burns about a can every 1,000 miles. His factory manual explicitly states it's normal.

[Vprbite]

My friend's Audi S4 needed oil all the time. He would usually top it off after driving to Tucson from Phoenix to visit me. He said that was just that about the S4. Everyone on the forums said the same thing and were fine with it. Seems odd to me as well, no doubt.

One thing I try and remind myself is there must be a lot more Gen Vs running around doing fine than the forums make us think. I agree there is an issue that needs addressed. But the manority of engines can't be on the razors edge of stasteophic failure. IMO.

- - - Updated - - -

My friend's Audi S4 needed oil all the time. He would usually top it off after driving to Tucson from Phoenix to visit me. He said that was just that about the S4. Everyone on the forums said the same thing and were fine with it. Seems odd to me as well, no doubt.

One thing I try and remind myself is there must be a lot more Gen Vs running around doing fine than the forums make us think. I agree there is an issue that needs addressed. But the manority of engines can't be on the razors edge of stasteophic failure. IMO.

[ViperPete]

I have only used the Pennzoil stuff in the Viper. Never burned a drop 11k on the car.

My SRT10 however is very picky with oil. Straight up DRINKS Royal Purple, Mobil 1 and Amzoil.

So far the Pennzoil stuff is the only oil my truck doesn't consume. Granted it has 100k on the clock, it still runs like a champ.

[GTS21]

Ok, stupid question from a stupid person....how do you know you need oil? Light on the dash, checking under the hood periodically, some other method? Thanks

[zzmike]

Others' methods may vary. I use the dipstick to check mine at every fill-up.

[dethred]

To stay on topic, has anyone tried a different motor oil completely to see if the consumption rate has changed? Again, my 911 burned not a measurable drop of oil for the first 16,000 miles on Mobile 1 synthetic, and in the proceeding 6,000 miles on Pennzoil Platinum it has burned 1.5qts.


I have only used the Pennzoil stuff in the Viper. Never burned a drop 11k on the car.

My SRT10 however is very picky with oil. Straight up DRINKS Royal Purple, Mobil 1 and Amzoil.

So far the Pennzoil stuff is the only oil my truck doesn't consume. Granted it has 100k on the clock, it still runs like a champ.

That's crazy. I just wonder if there's a pattern that can be formed to show the opposite for most Gen 5 owners...

[dethred]

Ok, stupid question from a stupid person....how do you know you need oil? Light on the dash, checking under the hood periodically, some other method? Thanks

Check your oil level with the dipstick under the hood at every fuel fill up. Chances are you are playing your luck already if you are asking this question... unless you got the car last week.

[uberpube]

Bondurant guys use 15w-50 all year long, say their engines don't consume much oil.

Maybe the 0-40 is just too thin for these engines. I might reconsider 0-40....
Like the Mazda Rx-8? Engines going out left, right and center in North America, car gets labelled as a dud. A friend of mine owns a rotary tuning shop in Japan and switched all his customers cars to 15w50 after seeing engine failures ,now his engine loss numbers are basically nil.


My friend's Audi S4 needed oil all the time. He would usually top it off after driving to Tucson from Phoenix to visit me. He said that was just that about the S4. Everyone on the forums said the same thing and were fine with it. Seems odd to me as well, no doubt.

One thing I try and remind myself is there must be a lot more Gen Vs running around doing fine than the forums make us think. I agree there is an issue that needs addressed. But the manority of engines can't be on the razors edge of stasteophic failure. IMO.

- - - Updated - - -

My friend's Audi S4 needed oil all the time. He would usually top it off after driving to Tucson from Phoenix to visit me. He said that was just that about the S4. Everyone on the forums said the same thing and were fine with it. Seems odd to me as well, no doubt.

One thing I try and remind myself is there must be a lot more Gen Vs running around doing fine than the forums make us think. I agree there is an issue that needs addressed. But the manority of engines can't be on the razors edge of stasteophic failure. IMO.
There was something with the S4, nikasil cylinder wear or something that made those cars famous for burning copious amounts of engine oil

[Jack B]

i just wait till the red light comes on, that is when I put in one qt. I just keep repeating that process. I find it sort of strange that car makes a grinding noise when the red light is on at the track. Does anyone know why it grind/bangs when the red light is on.


Check your oil level with the dipstick under the hood at every fuel fill up. Chances are you are playing your luck already if you are asking this question... unless you got the car last week.

[dethred]

i just wait till the red light comes on, that is when I put in one qt. I just keep repeating that process. I find it sort of strange that car makes a grinding noise when the red light is on at the track. Does anyone know why it grind/bangs when the red light is on.

Dude don't say that! Someone might take you seriously! Haha!

[Jmluke1]

Are the gen5's. coming from the factory with synthetic oil ? Every new car I have bought I've waited till 3000 miles before running full synthetic. This gives all internal parts time to seat. Did my first oil/filter change @ 510 miles with regular Dino, just to get all metal out from break in. 2015 gt.

[Steve-Indy]

Factory fill is Pennzoil full synthetic as widely documented.

[Jmluke1]

Thanks Steve, I knew it was Pennzoil, but wasn't sure of it being full synthetic. Does anyone know definitely the run time put on the gen5's engines at the factory?

[swexlin]

Are the gen5's. coming from the factory with synthetic oil ? Every new car I have bought I've waited till 3000 miles before running full synthetic. This gives all internal parts time to seat. Did my first oil/filter change @ 510 miles with regular Dino, just to get all metal out from break in. 2015 gt.

Please, get the dino oil out now! Good to change at 500 miles, but this engine was NOT designed to run dino. Please change to full syn asap.

[Steve-Indy]

Jmluke1, I THINK that I remember hearing around 50 minutes run time for 2013, 2014...but not sure of specifics. Next question might be was this done throughout the other years...especially knowing the "troubles"??

I am sure that others will give a better answer.

[Jmluke1]

I'm wondering if some of the oil consumption could be linked to full synthetic being used too soon,before engines fully broken in.

[SRT BILL]

When I was breaking in my Harley 103 CI motor, Harley said do not use synthic oil for the first 750 miles. They claim and I listened that the ring won't seat due to the slickness of the synthic oil. I followed their process and the engine dosen't burn anything in between changes. Only use synthic since breakin.

[swexlin]

The difference is this engine was designed for synthetic from the get-go. I'm no engineer, but putting dino oil in a Viper V10 for break-in is asking for trouble. My 2 cents.

[SRT BILL]

Swexlin, I agree with your statement. I was only trying to point out that the slickness of the synthic's could make the ring seating a slower process. Which in turn more than likely would increase oil consumption hence the possibility of running low on oil. I also would only recommend using the proper oil as reccomended by the manufacture, monitor oil level's and be patient with the breakin process. My stock 2013 GTS has about 3200 miles now and does not use any oil in between oil changes.

[swexlin]

Swexlin, I agree with your statement. I was only trying to point out that the slickness of the synthic's could make the ring seating a slower process. Which in turn more than likely would increase oil consumption hence the possibility of running low on oil. I also would only recommend using the proper oil as reccomended by the manufacture, monitor oil level's and be patient with the breakin process. My stock 2013 GTS has about 3200 miles now and does not use any oil in between oil changes.

Agree with you as well Bill. My comment was directed at JMLuke above, who changed out his oil, and put dino in. Not good.

[Jmluke1]

Synthetic oils are designed to reduce friction, and your engine needs friction to get the ZDDP to activate and help “chemically” mate the parts without wearing out the parts during the break-in period. Low friction motor oils, especially synthetics, are designed to reduce friction which will substantially lengthen the amount of time required to break in an engine.

Speed says that a well-designed break-in oil prevents excessive wear while quickly mating the parts. This approach reduces wear and completes the break-in process faster

[Jmluke1]

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro/training-center/articles/common-mistakes-of-using-synthetic-oil/

[ZeeViper]

excellent article, would love to know if they use break in oils when they initially fire these motors up.

Don't they run them on the dyno before they are installed?? i would think that would be when they should seat the mating surfaces??

[SRT BILL]

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/news/dro/training-center/articles/common-mistakes-of-using-synthetic-oil/

Great article Luke.

[Steve-Indy]

This discussion/argument has gone on and on here and on many other longstanding forums since the synthetics appeared in the marketplace. The fact remains that synthetic oil has been the factory fill for Viper engines since the introduction of the 1996 GTS. Admittedly, there have been many modifications to the chosen oil's formulations through the years. With the exception of the first 100 units of the 2000 model year, there have been no significant issues...until 2013.

When all is said and done...and after the V10 Viper is long gone, I suspect that one will find more to the current failures than residual debris in the block or choice of oils.

[texasram]

Synthetic oils are designed to reduce friction, and your engine needs friction to get the ZDDP to activate and help “chemically” mate the parts without wearing out the parts during the break-in period. Low friction motor oils, especially synthetics, are designed to reduce friction which will substantially lengthen the amount of time required to break in an engine.

Speed says that a well-designed break-in oil prevents excessive wear while quickly mating the parts. This approach reduces wear and completes the break-in process faster

Break in oils have a high zink content

[texasram]

Dude don't say that! Someone might take you seriously! Haha!

You were pretty set on selling yours a couple months ago, what happened?