TA OE Brembo brake pad wear

[sharmut]

Like to get feedback regarding the brake pad wear.
The images are from the front pads of the OE Brembo pads from 14 T/A along side a new set. They have ~11k miles street and 5 track days and measure to 7mm thick (pad material only).
Both driver and passenger inside pads show cracks. Outer pads not as severe. What's the reddish tint about?
Would it make sense to install the ACR cooling ducts to direct more air to the inside pad, possibly get a little more use out of them?

21470

21469

21468

[mjorgensen]

5 track days??? They look new, red could be rusty residue from rotors and washing, some cracking not uncommon from heat at the track, but most guys would need new pads after 5 tack days!

[lmcgrew79]

As Marks says, those look like new! Dont worry about the cracks.

[sharmut]

5 track days??? They look new, red could be rusty residue from rotors and washing, some cracking not uncommon from heat at the track, but most guys would need new pads after 5 tack days!

Interesting the cracks are predominately on the inside pads.

They definitely lost some firmness and initial bite. Flushed the brake fluid, replaced with Motul 2 track days prior. Since I already had the pads out, went ahead and replaced them. Relatively inexpensive ($230 front and rear set from dealer) compared to other compounds.

Thanks.

[Bruce H.]

Pads look good. If you find you still get fade consider a better fluid like Castrol SRF React. I found a significant improvement over Motul 5.1 in my TA with stock pads.

[sharmut]

Thanks everyone.

[fuggles]

I would suggest swapping to a more aggressive pad. My personal experience is the OE pads will fade. After switching to the Hawk DTC70 up front I have no issues.

[sharmut]

My only concern with using DTC70 is greater squeal on the street than the Brembo OE. Although I recently purchased a GIRODISC caliper tool and could start doing pad swaps between track days.

[fuggles]

I haven't had any squealing on the track or on the street. Someone told me to camfer the front edge to prevent squealing. I didn't. But that may be an option if it becomes an issue.

[sharmut]

I haven't had any squealing on the track or on the street. Someone told me to camfer the front edge to prevent squealing. I didn't. But that may be an option if it becomes an issue.

Good to know. Will have another chat with the local HAWK dealer nearby.

[SADVIPER]

I do have some squealing at the touch of the brake pedal ever since I used Carbotech pads! Can you elaborate on this chamfering idea?

[fuggles]

I do have some squealing at the touch of the brake pedal ever since I used Carbotech pads! Can you elaborate on this chamfering idea?

We didn't discuss how I would chamfer the pad myself. The hawk pads are not chamfered. Like this.

22092

And we would create this chamfered edge. Possibly with a router bit. Not sure.

22093

I will get more information when we speak again.

[darbgnik]

My only concern with using DTC70 is greater squeal on the street than the Brembo OE. Although I recently purchased a GIRODISC caliper tool and could start doing pad swaps between track days.

My Carbotech pads squeal like a city bus in town. But the tradeoff in initial bite makes up for it.

One thing to consider is cross contamination of brake material built up on the rotors from the 2 different compounds if you swap back and forth........

[sharmut]

^ good point on the varying compounds.
Installed the ACR brake ducts and will see how it effects the Brembo TA pads over the next several track outings.

[SADVIPER]

I don't switch the pads and cleaned the rotors before installation. Never heared such squealing on new pads! Will re-open them to see what's wrong. They bite good nontheless. I hope it is not specific for the stoptechs.

[darbgnik]

I don't switch the pads and cleaned the rotors before installation. Never heared such squealing on new pads! Will re-open them to see what's wrong. They bite good nontheless. I hope it is not specific for the stoptechs.

It's just the nature of high performance pads. The OEM pads are good. But they're a compromise as well. You have to trade some performance for them being quiet.

If anyone asks why your car squeaks, just say "Because racecar" lol

[fuggles]

I run Hawk DTC 70 pads. Race compound. And don't have any squealing.

[darbgnik]

I run Hawk DTC 70 pads. Race compound. And don't have any squealing.

That's cool. I've ran Hawk Reds, Brakeman #3s, Carbotech XP's and they've all squeaked on the street. I'd say the Brakemans squeaked the least. How do you like them?

[fuggles]

I like them. They bite hard on the track. A little soft on the street but I plan accordingly. I guess I am the exception. Never had a squeak out of them.

Next time I will try a set of pfcs to compare.

[AZTVR]

I don't switch the pads and cleaned the rotors before installation. Never heared such squealing on new pads! Will re-open them to see what's wrong. They bite good nontheless. I hope it is not specific for the stoptechs.

Did they squeak right after bedding them in, or only after a lot of street driving following the bedding in process? I definitely can imagine that there would be "squealing" if there is no layer of pad material on the rotor. There are other causes also, though.

[SADVIPER]

Did they squeak right after bedding them in, or only after a lot of street driving following the bedding in process? I definitely can imagine that there would be "squealing" if there is no layer of pad material on the rotor. There are other causes also, though.

What do you mean by pad material on the rotor?
They squeaked the moment I drove out my garage lol.

- - - Updated - - -


It's just the nature of high performance pads. The OEM pads are good. But they're a compromise as well. You have to trade some performance for them being quiet.

If anyone asks why your car squeaks, just say "Because racecar" lol

Best answer ever 😂

[AZTVR]

What do you mean by pad material on the rotor?
They squeaked the moment I drove out my garage lol.

When you bed in the brake pads and rotors, it deposits a layer of pad material onto the rotor for the pads to adhere to, improving braking performance. I have had the case where I left the race pads on my car between track events. The brakes did not squeal at first; but then did start to squeal after a day or more of street driving. I am theorizing that the abrasive race pads wore way the transfer layer from the rotor, and then caused squealing. I don't have any evidence to back up this idea, though. There are a lot of factors that can lead to brake squeal, though.

[darbgnik]

After a track day or bedding procedure, mine squeal shortly after. I just live with it. You can avoid the serious squeal by doing aggressive stops, rather than gradual, if you care.

[SADVIPER]

Nah the sound is fine for me but sometimes I wonder what people recording me on the traffic light thinks when they hear the sound 😂

- - - Updated - - -

My next pads are pre-beded so I'll see what difference that is.

[Arizona Vipers]

consider a better fluid like Castrol SRF React. I found a significant improvement over Motul 5.1 in my TA with stock pads.

This ↑↑↑↑↑↑
SRF is the best brake fluid money can buy end of story. You can get away with many track days without bleeding, but should bleed every 2 track days anyways.

[SADVIPER]

This ↑↑↑↑↑↑
SRF is the best brake fluid money can buy end of story. You can get away with many track days without bleeding, but should bleed every 2 track days anyways.

I've had it for 4 track days and no issues when I bled a lil afterwards to check the fluids. Amazing brake oil.

[fuggles]

You guys are nuts. Motul 600 work fine. I wouldn't pay double for srf. That's me. lol

[darbgnik]

You guys are nuts. Motul 600 work fine. I wouldn't pay double for srf. That's me. lol

Lol, I think it depends how you perceive value. The SRF bottle is twice the size, so not sure if it's double the price, but even so, your time is worth money. I went with SRF because I don't want to bleed the brakes after every track day. Its wet boiling point is really the reason to buy SRF, because it allows me to be lazy, and survive. ;)

Ok, maybe it is twice the price. Still worth it to me. Hahaha

[fuggles]

Agree. Time is money. And my time is big money. lol. Also I am a big fan of lazy.

1 ltr of srf is $58. 1/2 ltr of motul 600 is $16. Almost double.

You're still nuts. lol

[Arizona Vipers]

You guys are nuts. Motul 600 work fine. I wouldn't pay double for srf. That's me. lol

Yes, Motul is "fine". It's great, much better than stock fluid. But you can use SRF twice as long as any Motul before it fades. It's not more expensive. I've tested SRF vs Motul on same car, same tracks. Motul fades way faster.
When it comes to your braking system, you dont skimp on your rotors, calipers or brake pads do you? People spend $10K to upgrade their brakes. $1000 a day in tires, but you wont spend $30 more for the best brake fluid even though it WILL last longer.
If I could only give one tip to track guys, it would be to use Castrol SRF brake fluid. It's $58 on Amazon- https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-SRF-Racing-Brake-Fluid/dp/B000JL760C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483677070&sr=8-1&keywords=castrol+srf
One bottle is going to last you an entire race season if you are a hard core track guy. If you are a casual track guy it's going to last forever.

[Arizona Vipers]

Agree. Time is money. And my time is big money. lol. Also I am a big fan of lazy.

1 ltr of srf is $58. 1/2 ltr of motul 600 is $16. Almost double.

You're still nuts. lol

Ok, so $32 versus $58. I'll pay $26 more to have the best brake fluid, have it last twice as long and have to bleed my brakes half as often.
I used Motul for 6 months, I've never made it three track days without very noticeable fading. With SRF I've gone 6 track days+ and never experienced any fade whatsoever. I bleed just for the sake of bleeding at this point.
I've saved a lot of money on brake fluid since switching to SRF.

[Arizona Vipers]

http://www.ctbrakes.com/brake-fluid.asp

Motul wet boiling point- 421*
Castrol SRF wet boiling point 518*

Castrol boiling point is almost 100 degrees higher. Think about that. Have you ever hit your rotors with a laser temp gauge? You will see 800*++ at the end of a hard session.
So yes, Motul will fade faster and not last as long. So it's NOT cheaper. You pay less money to have to buy more, bleed more often, and have slower lap times. All to save $20 initially, but have to buy more in the long run.

[fuggles]

Yes, Motul is "fine". It's great, much better than stock fluid. But you can use SRF twice as long as any Motul before it fades. It's not more expensive. I've tested SRF vs Motul on same car, same tracks. Motul fades way faster.
When it comes to your braking system, you dont skimp on your rotors, calipers or brake pads do you? People spend $10K to upgrade their brakes. $1000 a day in tires, but you wont spend $30 more for the best brake fluid even though it WILL last longer.
If I could only give one tip to track guys, it would be to use Castrol SRF brake fluid. It's $58 on Amazon- https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-SRF-Racing-Brake-Fluid/dp/B000JL760C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483677070&sr=8-1&keywords=castrol+srf
One bottle is going to last you an entire race season if you are a hard core track guy. If you are a casual track guy it's going to last forever.

Ok. I don't spend 10K on brake upgrades or 1k a day on tires. So it not relevant to me. Maybe you should get a better track car. lol. To each his own. I still think you are nuts. lol

Time is money is a better argument. A half hour to bleed is worth more than a bottle of srf. :)

Anyway I'm having too much fun derailing this thread.

[LmeaViper]

An interesting thread. Last year I used Wilwood fluid and bled them 1-2 days before every event. On one of the last events I drove the car hard and after about 25 mins into the session I boiled my fluid...came in and went home earlier than usual. So the pitfall I had in using the easily available / less expensive fluid is that I missed one or two sessions in the day.

Side bar discussion, gotta do more for my brake cooling as well, account I did some undetermined issue /damage to my brakes that were observed the next day I drive the car. The car is put away now for Winter, but every time I put on the brakes while driving on the highway it would get growl / grind type of sound with other symptoms related to pedal feel.

My lesson is...to look to save costs elsewhere in life and not on my brake fluid. Now come Spring, I gotta figure out what else needs to be fixed on my brakes to make them 100% again. I.e get brake cooling ducts.