Transmission issue

[98intrigue]

My car has just a tick over 3000 miles on the odometer. About 1 month ago, I had trouble going into 3rd gear for the first time. This only happened at high RPMs when trying to shift quickly from 2nd to 3rd gear (not power shifting). I've only driven my car about 200 miles since the issue first appeared, but it happened intermittently over that span of mileage. Last weekend, I noticed that any shift into 3rd was beginning to get notchy. I took the car out this weekend and the issue was becoming worse. Finally last night, the 3rd gear synchro failed. I can clutch in, shift from 2nd to 3rd, but upon clutch out it's just a nasty grind/whine. I took the car into Dodge this morning and fortunately, they will have a new transmission ready for me tomorrow.


https://youtu.be/73NurTzyLhY


This EXACT same issue happened to me with my 2014 TA http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/11587-Transmission-issues?highlight=synchro. At the same time I was having my transmission replaced on that car, another 2014 TA was in for a transmission replacement. From a quick Google search, it sounds like there are similar issues across other models that use the TR6060 (Corvette, Camaro, Challenger, GT500).

Here are some other threads stating similar issues from the Gen V section:
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/15202-2016-acr-e-hard-to-shift-when-hot?highlight=sychro
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/15849-3rd-gear-grind?highlight=synchro
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13458-Normal-Driving-Conditions-Warranty-Clause?highlight=synchro
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/9266-First-issue-with-my-2013-gts-Hard-to-select-reverse-thoughts?highlight=synchro

[Martin]

At least they're fixing it. Did double clutching do any good? I had a synchro go once, and that was the only way to keep from grinding the crap out of the gearbox.

[nx91notch]

Time to upgrade.

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13654-Calvo-Motorsports-PPG-Pfitzner-sequential-and-H-pattern-gear-box-rebuilds!

[swexlin]

Sorry for the issue, but at least they are fixing it, and quickly. Can't believe they have a new transmission ready so quickly, let alone not having to sit and wait for FCA to approve it.

Man, that is some bad luck, with both your cars doing this.

[ViperPete]

Dang man sorry to hear that. At least it will done for the 1/2 mile event.

Ive never had a problem shifting the Viper. The SRT10 has had a few issues but they "go away".

[98intrigue]

At least they're fixing it. Did double clutching do any good? I had a synchro go once, and that was the only way to keep from grinding the crap out of the gearbox.
No. Third gear will not engage at all anymore. It was scary how fast the synchro failed.

Time to upgrade.
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/13654-Calvo-Motorsports-PPG-Pfitzner-sequential-and-H-pattern-gear-box-rebuilds!
Ha! Sequentially slow Viper. That would be a first!

Sorry for the issue, but at least they are fixing it, and quickly. Can't believe they have a new transmission ready so quickly, let alone not having to sit and wait for FCA to approve it.

Man, that is some bad luck, with both your cars doing this.
I couldn't believe it either. Since the transmission was on backorder with the last replacement, I had to wait over 2 months. Fortunately, there's one in Orlando and it will be here in the morning.

Dang man sorry to hear that. At least it will done for the 1/2 mile event.

Ive never had a problem shifting the Viper. The SRT10 has had a few issues but they "go away".
Talk about deja vu. I signed up for Ocala last year just a couple weeks before the TA needed replacement...and ended up missing the event. I was afraid I'd have to miss it again this year.

[AZTVR]

Can't believe they have a new transmission ready so quickly, let alone not having to sit and wait for FCA to approve it.


I couldn't believe it either. Since the transmission was on backorder with the last replacement, I had to wait over 2 months. Fortunately, there's one in Orlando and it will be here in the morning.

Perhaps this is a very clear cut failure mechanism and root cause, and there are plenty of rebuilt transmissions available now.

[texasram]

No. Third gear will not engage at all anymore. It was scary how fast the synchro failed.

Ha! Sequentially slow Viper. That would be a first!

I couldn't believe it either. Since the transmission was on backorder with the last replacement, I had to wait over 2 months. Fortunately, there's one in Orlando and it will be here in the morning.

Talk about deja vu. I signed up for Ocala last year just a couple weeks before the TA needed replacement...and ended up missing the event. I was afraid I'd have to miss it again this year.

theyre feeding you non sense if they say its on backorder, its not discontinued and used almost across the board on high performance vehicles as weve seen

[98intrigue]

Perhaps this is a very clear cut failure mechanism and root cause, and there are plenty of rebuilt transmissions available now.
I'll be getting a new (not rebuilt) transmission.

theyre feeding you non sense if they say its on backorder, its not discontinued and used almost across the board on high performance vehicles as weve seen
The transmission was on national back order around this time last year; not now. It was truly on backorder...ended up filing a claim with SRT to attempt to expedite the process, but it still took over 2 months.

[Jack B]

It is used on a lot of cars, however, the front housing and now the tail shaft differ from most of those other cars. The tail shaft actually differs from the G4 due to the viscous trans mount.

As a point of interest, I had what I thought was a bad synchro, when I pulled the trans out, it was actually the shifter mechanism, not, the trans itself.


theyre feeding you non sense if they say its on backorder, its not discontinued and used almost across the board on high performance vehicles as weve seen

[Batmobile]

Did they say anything about your car having headers and arrow pcm

[FLATOUT]

We have rebuilt/replaced quite a few at ViperExchange over the last few years.

Glad they took care of it.

[swexlin]

One more reason I'm glad I have the extended warranty.

[Jack B]

This was a DIY fix


Did they say anything about your car having headers and arrow pcm

[Chipster]

Why are the replacing trans and not just rebuilding? Just curious. My old Gen 2 had this issue with 2nd and after a basic rebuild kit, it was perfect.

[Martin]

Why are the replacing trans and not just rebuilding? Just curious. My old Gen 2 had this issue with 2nd and after a basic rebuild kit, it was perfect.

My guess would be that the synchro material grenaded all over the place, and the gears ground significantly, and that stuff got into the workings of the tranny. It would take a lot longer to rebuild when that happens because everything needs to be torn apart and cleaned.

For the Gen II cars, I remember a lot of issues with the shift forks in 2nd gear. That one is a pretty easy fix - a lot less complex than a tranny that sounded like it just ground a pound of gear material.

[Chipster]

My guess would be that the synchro material grenaded all over the place, and the gears ground significantly, and that stuff got into the workings of the tranny. It would take a lot longer to rebuild when that happens because everything needs to be torn apart and cleaned.

For the Gen II cars, I remember a lot of issues with the shift forks in 2nd gear. That one is a pretty easy fix - a lot less complex than a tranny that sounded like it just ground a pound of gear material.

That makes sense. I missed that the synchro had completely failed. Sounds like Dodge is taking care of the issue well then!

[98intrigue]

As a point of interest, I had what I thought was a bad synchro, when I pulled the trans out, it was actually the shifter mechanism, not, the trans itself.
I'm curious if the clutch hydraulics have anything to do with the initial issues of 3rd gear not engaging. Then after repetitive issues, the synchro begins to fail? I'm not knowledgeable at all in this area, so take what I said with a grain of salt.

Did they say anything about your car having headers and arrow pcm
No issues. They are aware of all my modifications on the car.

We have rebuilt/replaced quite a few at ViperExchange over the last few years.

Glad they took care of it.
Thanks for the information, Andy. I was beginning to wonder if I just couldn't drive for shit, haha!

That makes sense. I missed that the synchro had completely failed. Sounds like Dodge is taking care of the issue well then!
To add to what Martin said, when the 3rd gear synchro failed on my previous car 4th gear was following suit. Even 2nd gear developed a notchy feel just before the transmission was replaced. Plus, the downtime of a replacement vs. rebuild is minimal. I dropped the car off at 9am and should have it back before the end of day today.

[racegate]

Ryan, as you mentioned, it's possible the clutch is not fully disengaging which is what caused the issue. Especially if other gears follow suit and get notchy.

On my GEN2 Viper, I had an issue where the clutch was ever so slightly not disengaging. You could only tell if you had a keen sense of how that felt. I (unfortunately) have a lot of experience with clutches not disengaging properly / shifting issues from a past life on other cars, so it's something I am very aware of on all the cars I drive. In my case, the car shifted fine, even at high RPM, but I could tell from the very very slight notchyness in shifting and the fact that car would move ever so slightly when going into 1st gear from a stop there was an issue with clutch disengagement. In my case, it ended up being the TOB that needed to be replaced and re-shimmed correctly. In cars with triple synchros on gears, it's hard to feel the difference since they shift so smooth.

A lot of trans issues actually end up being the eventual result of a clutch not fully disengaging. It happens exactly as you said -- stresses the synchros first, and then when the gear doesn't change smoothly, all kinds of other problems can result.

[Bill Pemberton]

Also , make sure the transmission is really warmed up before shifting relatively quickly. From Gen 1s to today ( T-56 through T6060 ) some of the transmission concerns have been from drivers shifting hard or forcing the gears when still relatively cool. It can take longer for the transmission to heat up than the motor and folks sometimes forget about this. Interesting point in replacing the transmission , as this was standard operating procedure in years past -- no Dealer was allowed to repair the transmission and in fact Woodhouse was the first to actually be authorized to do this over 15 years ago. They may have gone back to this system to make sure the concerns now are not a supplier issue as well as we all know there are few Dealers ( unfortunately ) who work on these a lot. Not saying you caused your concern, just noting that this has been an issue with various performance cars since the 90s.

[Chipster]

Good point. I double clutch my Gallardo, especially from 1-2 when the engine and trans are cool.

[Jack B]

A couple more pounts, when my shifter failed, it became super notchy.

The twin disc set up has a lot of advantages, but, there are some negatives. There is not a lot of clearance when fully depressed. Hold the throttle at 2000 rpm when parked in first gear, then, slowly release the clutch, the car will start to creep way before you think should. If you abuse the clutch and get a minor warp of the disk, that minimal clearance is taken up and you start working the syncros.

[braunstein82]

Had 3 runs last night where it grinded going into 3rd. Was fine any other time driving normal. Was like the clutch wasn't disengaged. Scared that it caused damage, anything I can do to know for sure.

[swexlin]

Define normal vs your 3 runs? Where the runs redline shifting?

[braunstein82]

Racing compared to daily driving. Yes redline

[ViperGTS14]

And to think I was the only one with this issue trying to speed shift from 2nd to 3rd, she just does not like to. Before posting I did a search, most likely no one is following this thread but it seems to be common issue, might not be the trans, thinking its the oil could greatly help. Looking at amsoil torque drive at the moment, seems the z06 guys love this stuff makes shifting like night and day.

[98intrigue]

Try changing the transmission fluid first if you haven't already done so to see if that helps. I had the transmission replaced/rebuilt on my '14 TA, '14 carbon, and '16 ACR. I may have thought it was a personal, but I've had quite a few people over the years contact me stating they had the same issues.

Luck would have it that my last '14 SG car had no issues.

[ViperGTS14]

Try changing the transmission fluid first if you haven't already done so to see if that helps. I had the transmission replaced/rebuilt on my '14 TA, '14 carbon, and '16 ACR. I may have thought it was a personal, but I've had quite a few people over the years contact me stating they had the same issues.

Luck would have it that my last '14 SG car had no issues.

I'm hearing you, do believe oil can help. Seems we have the same trans as the vertt guys, there are way more of them racing etc.. Thinking of going amsoil to try

[SRT_BluByU]

Check hand position when shifting.. 2-3 should be palm of hand with fingers over the top... not like holding a gun with fingers wrapped around side

[ViperGTS14]

Wondering if any of this has to do with skip shift or Clutch Delay Valve Removal related as well. Also its been discussed hear as well related to throw out bearing

http://modernmoparforum.com/topic/18268-how-to-make-your-6-speed-wot-shift/

[Jack B]

And to think I was the only one with this issue trying to speed shift from 2nd to 3rd, she just does not like to. Before posting I did a search, most likely no one is following this thread but it seems to be common issue, might not be the trans, thinking its the oil could greatly help. Looking at amsoil torque drive at the moment, seems the z06 guys love this stuff makes shifting like night and day.

Torque matters, let us know how it works

[ViperGTS14]

Will do, ordered amsoil signature series atf instead for the trans and server gear 75w-140 per amsoil's recommendations for the rear. Going to try this over the torque drive instead after seeing one of the reps mention it https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=405509