Slight shudder engaging 1st gear after rear main seal change bleed issue

[MacGyvers Mullet]

EDIT: The title came out funny. It should read: "Bleed Issue?"

I had a painful rear main seal problem. I don't have much time to myself anymore, so I took it to a local Dodge dealer with a few viper "techs". Yes, we all know how that phrase gets tossed around and some of them very rarely work on Gen II's anymore. I didn't know where else to take it, honestly. Most shops didn't want to touch it. Long story short...they replaced the seal, along with a new clutch. It still leaked, but they swore that they fixed it. The good news is that the clutch at least worked great, but I didn't want to battle them any longer or even have them work on the car after said battle.

I took it to a local shop and they put in another rear main seal. Viola...it doesn't leak anymore. However, there is a slight shudder when letting out the clutch when rolling away from a stop in 1st gear. It didn't do this before I took it to this second shop. I have to rev it up more than before to avoid the shudder. They of course, took off the clutch and related components when doing the seal change. I am guessing it may need to be bled a bit more? Wanted to get a solid second opinion before taking it back up to the shop.

[bluesrt]

possible pilot shaft bearing damage,broke motor mount/flywheel needs machined,misalighned pilot shaft to bearing/ or maybe just needed to seat the clutch to flywheel, my gen v did this from new,took about 1000 miles for it to stop,wich I thought was weird/never had a issue like that before where it went away,but mine did from new/usually it a part problem

[98RedGTS]

What clutch did they put in? If it was a dual clutch kit that is fairly common for low throttle take offs. If it's a single disk then most likely some other cause. Depending on how bad the leak was the flywheel/clutch could have gotten contaminated too.

[MacGyvers Mullet]

possible pilot shaft bearing damage,broke motor mount/flywheel needs machined,misalighned pilot shaft to bearing/ or maybe just needed to seat the clutch to flywheel, my gen v did this from new,took about 1000 miles for it to stop,wich I thought was weird/never had a issue like that before where it went away,but mine did from new/usually it a part problem

Yes, some miles for a re-seat would be the best scenario out of all of those. I would doubt the motor mounts, as they were the same when the problem didn't exist before the second rear seal repair.


What clutch did they put in? If it was a dual clutch kit that is fairly common for low throttle take offs. If it's a single disk then most likely some other cause. Depending on how bad the leak was the flywheel/clutch could have gotten contaminated too.

It is an OEM LUK single disk clutch kit. The leak was pretty decent, so I wouldn't rule contamination out. It does shift quite well in and out of all other gears, but of course there is less time disengaging/engaging the clutch on 2nd-6th gears.

[bluesrt]

Not a bleed issue.if that were the case it would be hard to put in any gear.period

[Fatboy 18]

This is the trouble when you don't do things yourself, It could be a multiple of things.

1/ Transmission input shaft, how worn were the splines on the shaft? was any grease applied, if so how much?
2/ Pilot Bearing, did it get damaged when transmission was replaced, Had it ever been changed?
3/ Flywheel, was it fully degreased using brake cleaner, was the surface keyed with any type of abrasive paper?
4/ Clutch plate, Was it contaminated with oil? Again it could be cleaned with Brake cleaner, but better to replace.
5/ Clutch pressure plate, was it torqued up correctly? Did all the fingers align up straight?
6/ Back of the rear oil seal cover, was everything cleaned up to be perfectly dry prior to install?
7/ Bellhousing, was this also cleaned up prior to install?

Now lets move down the line a bit,
8/ How worn was the transmission mount?
9/ Did the drive shaft straps and bolts get replaced? These are stretch straps and should be replaced with new ones everytime.

What you could do.
You can get small telescopic inspection cameras, get the car up on a ramp, pull the clutch/flywheel cover plate and slip the camera into the gap and have a look see to see how clean and hopefully dry things are.
Failing that, start again. Sorry but that's the reality.


This is why I do all the work myself on my car because I do not trust anyone else, Period.
Rear main seal and new pilot bearing.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/3/2903/14431490439_04bde6b216_z.jpg

New LUK Pressure plate and Old Flywheel.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/4/3883/14638029423_51831625c1_z.jpg

I went with a New Fidanza Light weight flywheel, purchased from Roe.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5592/14617548952_01f7bf57e6_z.jpg

New LUK single clutch plate.
https://c6.staticflickr.com/4/3885/14638018013_4c0946bcdc_z.jpg

New Driveshaft bolts from PartsRack
https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8391/8584269660_36acf45c5a_z.jpg

[bluesrt]

:web_driver:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Fatboy 18]

Seriously, how the hell are we supposed to diagnose a Shudder, when we don't know EXACTLY what was cleaned or not cleaned, replaced or not replaced :(

Sorry, but that's the bottom line :(

As I said you could get something like this to peek inside the bellhousing and see if it was cleaned (or not)
20946

They also sell usb type scopes on the bay very cheap which you can either plug into a laptop or cell phone.

[GTS Dean]

I had a painful rear main seal problem. ... so I took it to a local Dodge dealer ... Long story short...they replaced the seal, ... It still leaked

I took it to a local shop and they put in another rear main seal. Viola...it doesn't leak anymore.

I would be very interested to know where this outside shop sourced the main seal. I tried to buy one a couple of months ago at my local dealer and was told they are no longer available. As for your shudder problem, it is likely that they got a smudge of oil or grease on the plate or lining.

[MacGyvers Mullet]

This is the trouble when you don't do things yourself, It could be a multiple of things.

1/ Transmission input shaft, how worn were the splines on the shaft? was any grease applied, if so how much?
2/ Pilot Bearing, did it get damaged when transmission was replaced, Had it ever been changed?
3/ Flywheel, was it fully degreased using brake cleaner, was the surface keyed with any type of abrasive paper?
4/ Clutch plate, Was it contaminated with oil? Again it could be cleaned with Brake cleaner, but better to replace.
5/ Clutch pressure plate, was it torqued up correctly? Did all the fingers align up straight?
6/ Back of the rear oil seal cover, was everything cleaned up to be perfectly dry prior to install?
7/ Bellhousing, was this also cleaned up prior to install?

Now lets move down the line a bit,
8/ How worn was the transmission mount?
9/ Did the drive shaft straps and bolts get replaced? These are stretch straps and should be replaced with new ones everytime.

What you could do.
You can get small telescopic inspection cameras, get the car up on a ramp, pull the clutch/flywheel cover plate and slip the camera into the gap and have a look see to see how clean and hopefully dry things are.
Failing that, start again. Sorry but that's the reality.


This is why I do all the work myself on my car because I do not trust anyone else, Period.
Rear main seal and new pilot bearing.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/3/2903/14431490439_04bde6b216_z.jpg

New LUK Pressure plate and Old Flywheel.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/4/3883/14638029423_51831625c1_z.jpg

I went with a New Fidanza Light weight flywheel, purchased from Roe.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5592/14617548952_01f7bf57e6_z.jpg

New LUK single clutch plate.
https://c6.staticflickr.com/4/3885/14638018013_4c0946bcdc_z.jpg

New Driveshaft bolts from PartsRack
https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8391/8584269660_36acf45c5a_z.jpg

All good points, thank you. The shudder is so light that it will not be worth taking off everything again. By that point, may as well throw on another new clutch, considering how cheap they are. I will just wait a while to see if it improves.


I would be very interested to know where this outside shop sourced the main seal. I tried to buy one a couple of months ago at my local dealer and was told they are no longer available. As for your shudder problem, it is likely that they got a smudge of oil or grease on the plate or lining.

I got it from RSI. From what I understood when trying to find one, Dodge only had one that included the seal housing plate, which was fairly expensive. RSI was able to get me one without the plate and the shop let me use it, since they could not source one themselves.

I would tend to lean towards an oil smudge, since the shudder is minor. Or at least I like to lean towards the most non-catastrophic causes :D

[GTS Dean]

I would imagine that armed with some accurate dimensions or a part number, a master interchange catalog from National Seal or Chicago Rawhide would be able to find a crank flange lip seal that would fit. A person with some patience, a punch and an xacto knife can still make a new backplate seal from sheet gasket stock like the old days.

[dave6666]

I would imagine that armed with some accurate dimensions or a part number, a master interchange catalog from National Seal or Chicago Rawhide would be able to find a crank flange lip seal that would fit. A person with some patience, a punch and an xacto knife can still make a new backplate seal from sheet gasket stock like the old days.

The crank seal is still readily available. You just have to know what they did with their numbering system.

Edit: The gasket is also readily available from Cometic. VSP has those in stock.

[Fatboy 18]

http://thumbsnap.com/s/ha1A20bd.jpg