Just mufflers

[nx91notch]

I know the standard protocol is Arrow PCM, long tube headers, high flow cats, and mufflers which I was 100% ready to take that path when I bought the car in June but with FCA voiding warranties on a known manufacture defect I am not willing to void my warranty at this time.

So has anyone here done JUST mufflers only? Any sound clips? All the sound clips I can find are full systems or HFC's and mufflers. I don't want to deal with a check engine light so looks like it's mufflers only for me.

From what I can tell....Belanger and ARH exhaust is going to give a deeper sound while the Corsa is a higher pitch.

All my local Viper buddies have full system's on their Vipers so I can't really judge.

[sadil]

Great topic, I am in the same boat. Have asked Viper Exchange multiple times for some videos of their titanium muffler on an otherwise stock system but dont think they have had somebody just buy the muffler yet.

Agency Power and VE both do titanium mufflers.

Corsa muffler-only exhaust I have heard in person was pretty lame.

I would go straight pipe first and give that a try before buying a muffler only setup, that is what I am going to do.

[mjorgensen]

With stock manifolds and cats in place there will be minimal change in sound between the stock mufflers and any muffler that has packing inside because both are all straight through designs. The Corsa sound different because it has no packing and tone is higher pitched and louder, but does seem to add some in car drone IMHO. I have no experience with the Ti options sorry, but will reduce weight for sure as will the other options over the factory mufflers.

[nx91notch]

From my research on here to the few that have tried the HFC's with no Arrow they do still get the check engine light on from time to time even though it's advertised NOT to turn the light on. To the ones that have tried how often does that light turn on?

[98intrigue]

Don't be a wuss...

[texasram]

I have heard the VE cat back system on ARH headers with re-fabbed collectors, it is insanely louder than stock, the cold start and idle is all amplified, love at first sound. But for the true record on corsa, its not much louder than stock but improves flow and actually has a lot less chance to drone than anything else

[BJG32]

From my research on here to the few that have tried the HFC's with no Arrow they do still get the check engine light on from time to time even though it's advertised NOT to turn the light on. To the ones that have tried how often does that light turn on?

Mine wouldn't turn off. Went on about 300 miles after install. O2 spacers did not help.

[texasram]

Mine wouldn't turn off. Went on about 300 miles after install. O2 spacers did not help.

So your MIL is still lit af?

[BJG32]

So your MIL is still lit af?

Nope....I have Arrow PCM.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Saddened to read this. It seems like you either go straight pipe or void your warranty.

[texasram]

Nope....I have Arrow PCM.

if you werent on your second engine would you still have gone arrow PCM

[texasram]

does anyone know if there is room to weld on a y pipe before cats and add a electric cutout?

[esm_viper]

That would be a good idea. I don't think there would be enough room unless you start cutting up the side sill on the bottom. Here's the stock cat-back.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/eric_mccloskey/Viper%20muffler_zps9zse2dcl.jpg

[BJG32]

if you werent on your second engine would you still have gone arrow PCM

Nope. I would have just gone back to stock and gutted the second cat....just would not tell the dealer about the gutting. That would of stopped the paint yellowing, kept the CEL off, and kept my warranty in place.

I did arrow before all the fun began.

[nx91notch]

The downstream O2 sensor is before the second cat.....so in theory one could just remove the 2nd cat and weld a straight pipe in.

[nx91notch]

Don't be a wuss...

LOL

Look at it this way....if I don't spend 4k on headers I have money to buy your TA 2.0 splitters.

[sadil]

Is there confirmation that the "second cat" is actually a cat? Looks more like a resonator.

I can see one 02 bung after the first cat. The initial 02 bung is in your manifold. So you should be able to go straight pipe after the first cat without an issue.

[Stealth]

My '14 GTS has just Corsas with Stock CATS and I like it. The Corsa has beautiful construction and better sound. I would love to go to high-flow CATS (single CAT) but do not want any warranty or CA Smog issues.

[BJG32]

Is there confirmation that the "second cat" is actually a cat? Looks more like a resonator.

I can see one 02 bung after the first cat. The initial 02 bung is in your manifold. So you should be able to go straight pipe after the first cat without an issue.

It is a cat. Just gut it, no welding needed and it will keep dealer's from turning you in and voiding any paint yellowing warranty work. No way to tell it's gutted unless they take the muffler off.

[sadil]

It is a cat. Just gut it, no welding needed and it will keep dealer's from turning you in and voiding any paint yellowing warranty work. No way to tell it's gutted unless they take the muffler off.

Im scared to gut it and have material left over than can fly backwards into the engine. I know in a setup with an x-pipe merger that was possible between banks, but not sure about non-merger style exhaust of the Viper.

I rather just buy a second L-shape pipe and remove the second cat all together and replace with straight pipe (all the way down to the tips is also possible) to the muffler. If I need to take the car in for warranty work I can just switch back to the stock style.

Just a thought, but that second b/s cat has to go!

[BJG32]

Im scared to gut it and have material left over than can fly backwards into the engine. I know in a setup with an x-pipe merger that was possible between banks, but not sure about non-merger style exhaust of the Viper.

I rather just buy a second L-shape pipe and remove the second cat all together and replace with straight pipe (all the way down to the tips is also possible) to the muffler. If I need to take the car in for warranty work I can just switch back to the stock style.

Just a thought, but that second b/s cat has to go!

If you cut the second cat they'll know work was done. However you do it removing that second cat makes a huge difference in sound. Way better than stock.....

[sadil]

If you cut the second cat they'll know work was done. However you do it removing that second cat makes a huge difference in sound. Way better than stock.....

Agree with you, I meant switch to the full L-shape factory set, not the "fab'd" one.

[BJG32]

Agree with you, I meant switch to the full L-shape factory set, not the "fab'd" one.

Ok...then you're talking highflows. Which more then likely will through a CEL. I think keeping the 1st OEM Cat in place will be the guaranteed way to not throw a CEL.

[99RT10]

Im scared to gut it and have material left over than can fly backwards into the engine.

Just a thought, but that second b/s cat has to go!

How would ANY parts "fly backwards" during engine operation? :confused:

[sadil]

How would ANY parts "fly backwards" during engine operation? :confused:

Depending on how much intake/exhaust valve overlap there is, some engines will have negative exhaust pressure while they bring in fresh air/fuel mix from the intake valve. Not sure how much overlap the Viper has.

[SilveRT8]

When I got my 13 GTS 3 years ago, I was shocked that the stock system had so much drone, wich I really cant stand, and I found the stock sound to be raspy. So I got one of the first set of Corsa mufflers, promised to remove the drone. The Corsa still had drone and the sound was similar the the stock system but louder and higher pitched. I then switched to the American Racing mufflers and now the sound is deep and mellow, much to my liking, louder than stock but less than the Corsa. Still has some drone, but to me, this is how it should come from the factory, as many friends also prefer it over stock.
I also got a set of Belanger headers with High flow cats ready to be installed, but I'm afraid it will amplify the drone, wich I'm trying to get rid of.

[Topplayer]

Is there a sound clip with the secound cat gutted?

[sadil]

When I got my 13 GTS 3 years ago, I was shocked that the stock system had so much drone, wich I really cant stand, and I found the stock sound to be raspy. So I got one of the first set of Corsa mufflers, promised to remove the drone. The Corsa still had drone and the sound was similar the the stock system but louder and higher pitched. I then switched to the American Racing mufflers and now the sound is deep and mellow, much to my liking, louder than stock but less than the Corsa. Still has some drone, but to me, this is how it should come from the factory, as many friends also prefer it over stock.
I also got a set of Belanger headers with High flow cats ready to be installed, but I'm afraid it will amplify the drone, wich I'm trying to get rid of.

Can you provide us with some exhaust clips? Start-up, idle, driveby, acceleration? That would be awesome!!

[texasram]

When I got my 13 GTS 3 years ago, I was shocked that the stock system had so much drone, wich I really cant stand, and I found the stock sound to be raspy. So I got one of the first set of Corsa mufflers, promised to remove the drone. The Corsa still had drone and the sound was similar the the stock system but louder and higher pitched. I then switched to the American Racing mufflers and now the sound is deep and mellow, much to my liking, louder than stock but less than the Corsa. Still has some drone, but to me, this is how it should come from the factory, as many friends also prefer it over stock.
I also got a set of Belanger headers with High flow cats ready to be installed, but I'm afraid it will amplify the drone, wich I'm trying to get rid of.
The stock system doesnt drone, drone is when the exhaust sound in the interior RADIATES within the cabin, It is when it hits a point where it kind of howls like when you blow across the top of a beer bottle, the sound you were hearing is just sound

[The_Ruski_Driver]

The stock system doesnt drone, drone is when the exhaust sound in the interior RADIATES within the cabin, It is when it hits a point where it kind of howls like when you blow across the top of a beer bottle, the sound you were hearing is just sound

There most def is drone on a stock system at a certain range.

[mnc2886]

There most def is drone on a stock system at a certain range.

Exactly. 2100 RPM for me.

[texasram]

There most def is drone on a stock system at a certain range.

You dont know drone till you ride in a wrx

[serpent]

How would the Agency Power High Flow cat with exhaust system do?
https://www.agency-power.com/shop/catted-full-titanium-exhaust-system-srt-viper/

can that be installed without CEL or the need of arrow pcm?

Will the system pass cali smog?

I'm in the same predicament as OP, dont want to worry about warranty and just want a better sound. Not to mention weight savings!

[texasram]

How would the Agency Power High Flow cat with exhaust system do?
https://www.agency-power.com/shop/catted-full-titanium-exhaust-system-srt-viper/

can that be installed without CEL or the need of arrow pcm?

Will the system pass cali smog?

I'm in the same predicament as OP, dont want to worry about warranty and just want a better sound. Not to mention weight savings!
VE cat back > agency power cat back, agency power will basically show you the door if you have any problems

[texasram]

Exactly. 2100 RPM for me.

Im just saying compared to other performance vehicles you cant really say ours "DRONES" per say, im not knocking anyone's opinion

[sadil]

How would the Agency Power High Flow cat with exhaust system do?
https://www.agency-power.com/shop/catted-full-titanium-exhaust-system-srt-viper/

can that be installed without CEL or the need of arrow pcm?

Will the system pass cali smog?

I'm in the same predicament as OP, dont want to worry about warranty and just want a better sound. Not to mention weight savings!

Any afternarket "high flow" cat is a scam. There are just not efficient enough to meet OEM requirements. You most likely will get a CEL with the AP setup. With Arrow, the CEL will be eliminated along with your warranty.

[sadil]

VE cat back > agency power cat back, agency power will basically show you the door if you have any problems

Dont think VE is gonna do anything about a CEL. It is expected with any afternarket exhaust. Unless its a build concern, AP will be just ad good if not better. I would prefer AP over VE just because VE has no details about their own product while AP has a bunch of info. Piss poor marketing by VE in my opinion. They are tacking these onto H/C packages but offer no information for people that want to buy them separately besides a price...

[SilveRT8]

The stock system doesnt drone, drone is when the exhaust sound in the interior RADIATES within the cabin, It is when it hits a point where it kind of howls like when you blow across the top of a beer bottle, the sound you were hearing is just sound

Yes exactly, I know what Drone is, as it drives me crazy and it cost me to change many exhaust systems on other cars too. My stock '13 Viper system had this Radiation between 2000 and 2,400 rpm.
Maybe my ears are more sensible to it and it may vary from car to car.

[serpent]

So the title is correct, just the mufflers can be changed.
And it seems there is only a handful of choices:
Belanger
ARH (cant find an on their site)
Agency Power
Viper Exchange (no info)
Corsa

[nx91notch]

Yes just mufflers can be changed but it seems it's pointless unless your looking for the weight savings. Seems the factory mufflers are already pretty free flowing. You want to make some noise the cats need to go.

[SilveRT8]

video : Corsa mufflers

http://s91.photobucket.com/user/SilveRT8/media/Corsa%20exhaust_zps598sqllk.mp4.html?sort=3&o=4

video : American Racing mufflers

http://s91.photobucket.com/user/SilveRT8/media/AR%20Mufflers_zpsg4stpyvz.mp4.html?sort=3&o=5

Hope the link works !

[ViperJon]

You dont know drone till you ride in an ACR with no sound deadening.

Fixed.....

[texasram]

Fixed.....

That to

[1of1TA1.0]

Thanks for the sound clips.

[sadil]

The Corsa's actually sound great there.

I really want to get a second set of 90 degree cat pipes and remove the second cat. The plan is to try the following and document my progress.

1) Stock headers, stock mid-pipe, stock muffler
2) Stock headers, fab'd mid-pipe (second cat removed), stock muffler
3) Stock headers, fab'd mid-pipe (second cat removed), straight pipe in titanium
4) Stock headers, fab'd mid-pipe in titanium in stock size, straight pipe in titanium

I am confident I can do all those without causing a CEL.

Of course its more acoustics than anything. Performance is likely not going to change much until you play with first CAT and headers.

Eventually I am going to bite the bullet and go full headers and cat-less mid-pipe and try the O2 spacers on the second O2s.

[SilveRT8]

Great, keep us posted. Interested to hear your comment on the second cat removed.

[serpent]

I emailed Agency Power and got this response:


It more then likely will not pass CARB as we do not have CARB certs on any of our products. This system has high flow cats but thet are only 200cell. It will not need a tune or a new PCM for the car.

[sadil]

I emailed Agency Power and got this response:

Not surprised at all. Just gives people interested in exhaust work a little hope because calling something "off-road only" or "cat-less" can be scary. OEM's spend millions on engine development, it would be silly to oversize a CAT and have it restrict the engine more than it needs to, to pass emissions. I have always recommend that people either go full off-road or stay stock upstream of the mid-pipe.

[RdyPlr1]

The Corsa's actually sound great there.

I really want to get a second set of 90 degree cat pipes and remove the second cat. The plan is to try the following and document my progress.

1) Stock headers, stock mid-pipe, stock muffler
2) Stock headers, fab'd mid-pipe (second cat removed), stock muffler
3) Stock headers, fab'd mid-pipe (second cat removed), straight pipe in titanium
4) Stock headers, fab'd mid-pipe in titanium in stock size, straight pipe in titanium

I am confident I can do all those without causing a CEL.

Of course its more acoustics than anything. Performance is likely not going to change much until you play with first CAT and headers.

Eventually I am going to bite the bullet and go full headers and cat-less mid-pipe and try the O2 spacers on the second O2s.



That's a great idea.. Keep us posted.

[texasram]

Not surprised at all. Just gives people interested in exhaust work a little hope because calling something "off-road only" or "cat-less" can be scary. OEM's spend millions on engine development, it would be silly to oversize a CAT and have it restrict the engine more than it needs to, to pass emissions. I have always recommend that people either go full off-road or stay stock upstream of the mid-pipe.

unless this was their marketing scheme to easily unlock more power at a later time to attract new buyers

[texasram]

Yes just mufflers can be changed but it seems it's pointless unless your looking for the weight savings. Seems the factory mufflers are already pretty free flowing. You want to make some noise the cats need to go.

I might consider this since adding high flow cats didnt void jlgs warranty when his engine went

[ViperRich]

I have a 14 Gts in white that I put a Belanger single high flow cat on that John B sells and it is a little louder adds some pops when you rev it up and isn't turning my sills yellow any longer. No check engine light, I have had this on for over a thousand miles. I also wrapped everything with high temp lava wrap including the whole stock muffler.

[biturboamg]

I have a set of bellanger mufflers from Mark here I will add to the car and get some sound clips of before and after so we can see if the sound is any different.

[RdyPlr1]

Nope. I would have just gone back to stock and gutted the second cat....just would not tell the dealer about the gutting. That would of stopped the paint yellowing, kept the CEL off, and kept my warranty in place.

I did arrow before all the fun began.

Do you think a Cel would be set off by gutting the Secondary Cat? That o2 sensor is close, but it has to only be measuring air flow coming from the first cat? I'm thinking of gutting cat, straight SS pipe. .. heat shielding the secondary cat and DEI heat wrapping the pipes. The goal is better sound , lower temps (wrinkling my clear bra) and no CEL.

[sadil]

Do you think a Cel would be set off by gutting the Secondary Cat? That o2 sensor is close, but it has to only be measuring air flow coming from the first cat? I'm thinking of gutting cat, straight SS pipe. .. heat shielding the secondary cat and DEI heat wrapping the pipes. The goal is better sound , lower temps (wrinkling my clear bra) and no CEL.

Dont think it should be a problem. I was also curious if GEN 3/4 cat pipe (mid pipe between headers and mufflers) parts fit a GEN V.

[biturboamg]

Does the secondary cat come apart from the primary or are they welded together as one L pipe?

[BJG32]

Do you think a Cel would be set off by gutting the Secondary Cat? That o2 sensor is close, but it has to only be measuring air flow coming from the first cat? I'm thinking of gutting cat, straight SS pipe. .. heat shielding the secondary cat and DEI heat wrapping the pipes. The goal is better sound , lower temps (wrinkling my clear bra) and no CEL.

I dont think it will throw a cell. It didn't on gen 3/4, but then again 5 seems to be a little more sensitive to CELs from tinkering with cats. Since there is no sensor after secondary cat, i think it will be fine. Not sure if 2nd cat gut has been attempted on gen 5 yet.

- - - Updated - - -


Does the secondary cat come apart from the primary or are they welded together as one L pipe?

Together as 1 piece.

[RdyPlr1]

Yea, I'm worried I do all the work in gutting and adding heat shields and pipes.. and I get a code. At that point I could have just bought a catless Titanium from AP and just drive around with an cel . Clear it Smog time.

[BJG32]

Yea, I'm worried I do all the work in gutting and adding heat shields and pipes.. and I get a code. At that point I could have just bought a catless Titanium from AP and just drive around with an cel . Clear it Smog time.

No pipes or heat shields needed. Take cat offf, gut, return. If it doesn't work i am sure several people here have cats lying around theyd sell cheap.

[RdyPlr1]

Very true.. Do you know what diameter straight pipe i would need that would fit over that second cat outlet and the exhaust tip

[BJG32]

Very true.. Do you know what diameter straight pipe i would need that would fit over that second cat outlet and the exhaust tip

Not sure. I'll measure for you ASAP... If somebody doesn't chime in first.

[RdyPlr1]

Thanks bud, I may start this project soon. From the pictures i see, I looks like the straight pipe i add would go over top of the secondary cat outlet.. but the exhaust tip looks like it is NOT the same diameter as the secondary cat. Can someone confirm this.

[dewilmoth]

What's the easiest/best way to gut the 2nd cat? I like that idea, and I have a white car.

[BJG32]

What's the easiest/best way to gut the 2nd cat? I like that idea, and I have a white car.

Hammer and long screwdriver.

[BJG32]

Thanks bud, I may start this project soon. From the pictures i see, I looks like the straight pipe i add would go over top of the secondary cat outlet.. but the exhaust tip looks like it is NOT the same diameter as the secondary cat. Can someone confirm this.

Sounds your talking about eliminating the second cat....not gutting it. If you gut no parts are needed and it is undetectable to a dodge tech... The mod you are considering would be detectable with visual inspection and accomplishes exactly what a gut would do. I say gut.

Just chisel out the substrate and reinstall.

[RdyPlr1]

No I'm NOT cutting it off... I have just removed the exhaust system... The secondary cat is not made of the honey comb material that is easy to chisel off. its metal.. and I've been told it will just crush on itself. Extremely tough to gut.

[BJG32]

No I'm NOT cutting it off... I have just removed the exhaust system... The secondary cat is not made of the honey comb material that is easy to chisel off. its metal.. and I've been told it will just crush on itself. Extremely tough to gut.

Well shit.........

[Dave1968]

No I'm NOT cutting it off... I have just removed the exhaust system... The secondary cat is not made of the honey comb material that is easy to chisel off. its metal.. and I've been told it will just crush on itself. Extremely tough to gut.

I might be able to help with this. I did this on the cat on my 2007 Gixxer 1000. Very tough, yes. I bought a long drill bit, about 10 " or so and filled the cat with oil. Then drilled away and used extended long nose pliers to rip out the interior as the drill bit chewed it up. You need the oil to lubricate the bit - the same way you do when drilling through metal. Put it on and drive it hard, at night lol, because it will smoke like a bastard for about 10 miles. You now have a gutted cat!

[SRT_BluByU]

Gangs if i recall correctly the stuff in the cats is pretty nasty. Maybe Consider wearing protection if dealing with a situation where you can come in contact with it.

[RdyPlr1]

Well shit.........

Lol



I might be able to help with this. I did this on the cat on my 2007 Gixxer 1000. Very tough, yes. I bought a long drill bit, about 10 " or so and filled the cat with oil. Then drilled away and used extended long nose pliers to rip out the interior as the drill bit chewed it up. You need the oil to lubricate the bit - the same way you do when drilling through metal. Put it on and drive it hard, at night lol, because it will smoke like a bastard for about 10 miles. You now have a gutted cat!

Damn, doesn't sound like fun, and we would have to do two.. The oiling makes sense but it'll drip down into the first cat, and I'm not sure the CEL won't turn on.. the airflow will change in that secondary o2.

[Dave1968]

If you have access to a mig welder, you could always separate the two cats, do the cleanout, and weld them back together again - I guess it depends on your motivation. lol.

[RdyPlr1]

We're trying to do this so that if a problem arises, the dealer cannot see any modifications. So if you were going to cut open the cat.. you might as well just cut it off and straight pipe it.
I am in the process of removing muffler, adding a straight pipe, heat wrapping the pipe, and shielding the second cat to keep the sills cool. No cel, cool sills, no clear bra wrinkling. I don't think it will sound any better, i will tell you this weekend.