Poll: Should the next ACR be Blown?

[Newport Viper]

Should the next ACR have a blower to crush the competiton?

I "think" Ralph said somewhere that the next ACR will be radical.... Do you think it will have one?

[VENOM V]

I'm somewhere between no and maybe. I prefer the reliability and simplicity of normally aspirated. I hope the "radical" is in the area of active aero, more sophisticated suspension, brakes and weight reduction. I'd prefer a DCT over forced induction. The Viper doesn't really need much more power to be a world beater on the track.

That said, if heat soak can be properly managed, forced induction would not be the end of the world. I wonder if the low end torque of a big V10 like ours could be combined with turbos to reduce the effects of lag. I'm no expert but I would imagine that turbos are more efficient than superchargers, have a lower CG, and may package better without the need to radically change the Gen V.

So we may not need it, but with all of the 700+ HP fans out there, I suppose it could help sell Vipers.

[05Commemorative]

I sure hope not. The last think a track guy wants is a blower. In my opinion, the ACR is for the track. Not street racing, not bragging about HP, not posing. Just about going to the track weekend after weekend, handling long sessions with no fuss. My experience in past 8 yrs of tracking is no blown car ever consistently been there. All eventually have problems. Just look over the years for your most common, competent and competitive track cars and they are NA.

Forget the magazine one lap wonder times as they really don't matter for the ACR.

Make it lighter, more aero, bigger brakes, maybe some body mods (different hood), paint it however you want and call it good. Sure, all would like a bit more power, but don't sacrifice the car w/a blower. Just my opinion.

[VRYALT3R3D]

The ACR-X had the same power as the 2013+ Viper. More power isn't the answer. Aero is. If the ACR-X is capable of running 7:03 at the 'ring, while weighing more and not having a structure as strong as the 2013+, the next gen ACR with the proper aero can probably be in the 6:5x range!

I want to see a wide body 700 HP N/A ACR with radical styling and have an optional "paint any colour you want" option.

The Viper is a great platform. I hope SRT exploits it to it's limit.

[ViperSmith]

The obsession with some artificial horse power number is baffling.

Blowing an ACR would be anthtical to the point of the ACR.

[johniew398]

Having owned a ZR1 and now two Vipers, I would vote no.

[FLATOUT]

Absolutely not.

[blk_fxstc]

Wash your keyboard out with soap!!!! :D

[Shooter]

Nfw

[viperdan]

Nope!

[Nine Ball]

Nope. If HP sold cars, there wouldn't be any Gen 1-3 owners on this site, because everyone would have already upgraded to the Gen 4 by now. Since that isn't what happened, then we've proven that HP doesn't sell Vipers.

I would, however, like to see a factory option for a Paxton supercharger. Something that could be installed on any Viper, from the factory (or dealership). That would give us an easy 750-800 hp, and would likely be a popular option. And, it would cost less than the $15,000 paint option.

Tony

[C.J]

No blower. If you can't go fast enough with 640 HP, the constraint to faster times is probably between the seat and steering wheel.

[KRATEDISEASE]

no way

[BlknBlu]

Only if it is designed to go in a straight line for just a few seconds.

Bruce

[pony23]

I had a modified Shelby GT500 and it was a blast on the street. Too much blower heat soak when on the track. Even when it has a bigger intercooler.

Keep the ACR all motor. It's a track car.

[Bill Pemberton]

Great answers guys, pretty evident an ACR needs to be about brakes, suspension, aero, and it will blow everyone away again -- without a heat soaking blower!!

[XSnake]

No it should not be and it won't be.

[ACRucrazy]

I voted yes only because it would put the automotive world in a tailspin for a factory force inducted V-10 Viper ACR..
However I would be perfectly content with 700 hp NA beast.
SRT has to do something to get more HP out of it when Camaros, Mustangs, Corvettes, and even Dodge Challengers are creeping up on the Vipers numbers, 640 is just not enough in the magazine world. And yes... magazines sell cars.

[slitherv10]

Poll should be expanded to see how many people actually utilize the ACR's package (track). How many owners of ACR's bought the car for the track or for the reputation that it has among its competitors. I would bet the list would consist of these reasons...

1. Fact that it beat the competition on and off the track. King of the hill status , HP, Trq numbers, performance.

2. Looks ( race car look )

3. exclusiveness ( not many to see around town)

4. color combo (limited or one off)

5, Can take it to the track a few times a year, if that.

Out of @1000 Gen 4 ACR's ( correct me if I'm wrong as I took a guess on numbers), I would say 20% of owners actually bought the car for strictly tracking it and have modified it to the point that it is barely street legal if at all anymore. The rest of the 800 have either taken it to the track a few times a year for pleasure with the regional clubs or have not at all and even kept them as garage queens.
That said, with the amount of miles that the majority owners put on the car and Vipers in general, the amount of track time, street racing ( which we are all guilty of),that we have done, it would make sense for SRT to grab the majority of owners and enthusiasts that obviously would benefit from a high Hp car which everyone is looking for as has been the fact from most past comments since the Gen 5 inception.
Is 640HP enough. of course it is, but, its not about it being enough and usable, its all about the bragging rights. that is why most put TT in their cars and sell them shortly after. It's unusable HP, but the bragging rights of owning one outweighs the later. It has always been about Hp and performance. that is why we are Owners of this car.
A Blower may not be the answer per say. More Hp would definitely be. Why, once again I repeat,bragging rights and the Vipers ruthless reputation.

We bought the car for its reputation and we will support it along as it has it. Once its lost, it will blend within the pack and not stand alone.

HP or bust!!

[ACRucrazy]

Out of @2000 Gen 4 ACR's ( correct me if I'm wrong as I took a guess on numbers), I would say 100 owners actually bought the car for strictly tracking it and have modified it to the point that it is barely street legal if at all anymore. The rest of the 1900 have either taken it to the track a few times a year for pleasure with the regional clubs or have not at all and even kept them as garage queens.


I don't recall the exact number, but it was somewhere along the lines of 635 Gen IV ACRs with about 2,745 total Gen IVs made.
Numbers here if you want to add them all up.
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/1577-Gen-IV-production-number-charts-2008-2010

[ViperSmith]

Poll should be expanded to see how many people actually utilize the ACR's package (track). How many owners of ACR's bought the car for the track or for the reputation that it has among its competitors. I would bet the list would consist of these reasons...

1. Fact that it beat the competition on and off the track. King of the hill status , HP, Trq numbers, performance.

2. Looks ( race car look )

3. exclusiveness ( not many to see around town)

4. color combo (limited or one off)

5, Can take it to the track a few times a year, if that.

Out of @2000 Gen 4 ACR's ( correct me if I'm wrong as I took a guess on numbers), I would say 100 owners actually bought the car for strictly tracking it and have modified it to the point that it is barely street legal if at all anymore. The rest of the 1900 have either taken it to the track a few times a year for pleasure with the regional clubs or have not at all and even kept them as garage queens.
That said, with the amount of miles that the majority owners put on the car and Vipers in general, the amount of track time, street racing ( which we are all guilty of),that we have done, it would make sense for SRT to grab the majority of owners and enthusiasts that obviously would benefit from a high Hp car which everyone is looking for as has been the fact from most past comments since the Gen 5 inception.
Is 640HP enough. of course it is, but, its not about it being enough and usable, its all about the bragging rights. that is why most put TT in their cars and sell them shortly after. It's unusable HP, but the bragging rights of owning one outweighs the later. It has always been about Hp and performance. that is why we are Owners of this car.
A Blower may not be the answer per say. More Hp would definitely be. Why, once again I repeat,bragging rights and the Vipers ruthless reputation.

We bought the car for its reputation and we will support it along as it has it. Once its lost, it will blend within the pack and not stand alone.

HP or bust!!


So, now we have it - the ACR should just have crazy HP, so we can go impress kids at the local high school or old men at cars and coffee.

Doesn't matter how the ACR can fair around a track - it just has to have high hp to brag to old men and young kids.

Gotcha

[ACRucrazy]

So, now we have it - the ACR should just have crazy HP, so we can go impress kids at the local high school or old men at cars and coffee.

Doesn't matter how the ACR can fair around a track - it just has to have high hp to brag to old men and young kids.

Gotcha

Because that's what we all implied..
Gotcha..

[ViperSmith]

Because that's what we all implied..
Gotcha..

Not you, left out the quote.

Don't get me wrong - the ACR should have a HP bump, but the silly logic he rolls out - is just preposterous.

The ACR should be the best track car there is - period. If SRT had to knock down HP to make it faster, then it should (of course they won't).

I don't think HP when I think ACR, I think "track monster"

[ACRucrazy]

I agree, track monster it should be. Either way I think we are all just getting anxious for the next beast to be released :)

[Troublemaker]

DI, DCT, dry sump, and the body of the GT3. A set of Recaros and any leather that doesnt touch the driver is either C.F. or aluminum. Figure out how to get PSSs on it.

[slitherv10]

So, now we have it - the ACR should just have crazy HP, so we can go impress kids at the local high school or old men at cars and coffee.

Doesn't matter how the ACR can fair around a track - it just has to have high hp to brag to old men and young kids.

Gotcha


As acrucrazy stated and funny how you agree with him yet it was what I stated and he saw within my post but anyways, you Mr smith need to read between the lines more..lol....I don't see anywhere in my post about me mentioning preposterous amounts of HP....where did you see that. Your new little one ( congrats by the way) I think is keeping you up late at night and your weary.
Its sad that you see it as you do with old men and young kids. I guess our minds work differently.

You need to read my posts a little more carefully and with more of an open mid as everyone else here seems to do. Otherwise it seems we don't see eye to eye on almost every thread or post that you or I open.

Just to help you out a little to understand it better. It is merely stating my OPINION on numbers and uses among the ACR owners. What I perceive. What I believe most owners are doing with their cars and what I think has sold the Viper in the past. HP and performance. PERIOD

Didn't think it was so difficult to understand.

[05Commemorative]

Poll should be expanded to see how many people actually utilize the ACR's package (track). How many owners of ACR's bought the car for the track or for the reputation that it has among its competitors. I would bet the list would consist of these reasons...

1. Fact that it beat the competition on and off the track. King of the hill status , HP, Trq numbers, performance.

2. Looks ( race car look )

3. exclusiveness ( not many to see around town)

4. color combo (limited or one off)

5, Can take it to the track a few times a year, if that.

Out of @2000 Gen 4 ACR's ( correct me if I'm wrong as I took a guess on numbers), I would say 100 owners actually bought the car for strictly tracking it and have modified it to the point that it is barely street legal if at all anymore. The rest of the 1900 have either taken it to the track a few times a year for pleasure with the regional clubs or have not at all and even kept them as garage queens.
That said, with the amount of miles that the majority owners put on the car and Vipers in general, the amount of track time, street racing ( which we are all guilty of),that we have done, it would make sense for SRT to grab the majority of owners and enthusiasts that obviously would benefit from a high Hp car which everyone is looking for as has been the fact from most past comments since the Gen 5 inception.
Is 640HP enough. of course it is, but, its not about it being enough and usable, its all about the bragging rights. that is why most put TT in their cars and sell them shortly after. It's unusable HP, but the bragging rights of owning one outweighs the later. It has always been about Hp and performance. that is why we are Owners of this car.
A Blower may not be the answer per say. More Hp would definitely be. Why, once again I repeat,bragging rights and the Vipers ruthless reputation.

We bought the car for its reputation and we will support it along as it has it. Once its lost, it will blend within the pack and not stand alone.

HP or bust!!
Seems like you might as well change the question to "are you a poser? or not?" Your # on ACR's is way too high. You are making very bold statements here categorize everyone else, yet all the post before yours states something different. food for thought.

I get folks quest for more power, and have seen pleanty of older Vipers with blowers or turbo's, but never seen an ACR with one yet that was for track use. I believe the % of ACR owners that track their cars is very high. If you were to put a blower on one, I think you would be obligated to get a license plate that said "poser".

[slitherv10]

Seems like you might as well change the question to "are you a poser? or not?" Your # on ACR's is way too high. You are making very bold statements here categorize everyone else, yet all the post before yours states something different. food for thought.

I get folks quest for more power, and have seen pleanty of older Vipers with blowers or turbo's, but never seen an ACR with one yet that was for track use. I believe the % of ACR owners that track their cars is very high. If you were to put a blower on one, I think you would be obligated to get a license plate that said "poser".

As I said in my post...regarding ACR numbers...I said correct me if I'm wrong ( Ive corrected it to more appropriate numbers as it seems everyone is being sticky on those numbers and instead of finding the answer they are just using it as ammo).

As far as being a poser under that relation, it is not among the list of why people seem to by a Viper and in this case an ACR. I don't think I am too far off with that list of reasons, do you. Why did you buy your Viper?

The post I made said nothing about being a poser. Can you please point that out to me in my thread? It seems you are as confused as Mr Smith. read the post carefully and understand it before making assumptions.

[ACRucrazy]

After watching the Z06 vids and hearing more about it... SRT is going to have to step it up I think! 15.4?" CCB 6 piston calipers in the front, 15" 4 piston rear, that aero and I am betting on the dyno it puts out more power and torque to the tire than the Gen V... Watch out that thing is sick..

[VENOM V]

Not you, left out the quote.

Don't get me wrong - the ACR should have a HP bump, but the silly logic he rolls out - is just preposterous.

The ACR should be the best track car there is - period. If SRT had to knock down HP to make it faster, then it should (of course they won't).

I don't think HP when I think ACR, I think "track monster"

Yep, you nailed it Harold. Actually, both of your posts nailed it, LOL

[slitherv10]

Yep, you nailed it Harold. Actually, both of your posts nailed it, LOL

Yawn..

[05Commemorative]

As I said in my post...regarding ACR numbers...I said correct me if I'm wrong ( Ive corrected it to more appropriate numbers as it seems everyone is being sticky on those numbers and instead of finding the answer they are just using it as ammo).

As far as being a poser under that relation, it is not among the list of why people seem to by a Viper and in this case an ACR. I don't think I am too far off with that list of reasons, do you. Why did you buy your Viper?

The post I made said nothing about being a poser. Can you please point that out to me in my thread? It seems you are as confused as Mr Smith. read the post carefully and understand it before making assumptions.

This is your quote that triggered my response.

"It's unusable HP, but the bragging rights of owning one outweighs the later. It has always been about Hp and performance. that is why we are Owners of this car."

Sure, you are off by a big margin on the # of ACR's built and even bigger on those that take to the track, but my issue is this statement above. There was atleast 20 responses before this that should have given you the right answer. I think the thing you find is the ACR owner is a slightly different breed of Viper that is even more track oriented and track knowledgeable.

You statement suggests "bragging rights" and my experience of that person is they could not handle the stock HP let alone adding more and the sole reason for adding more was bragging rights? If that is the case, that is the definition of poser for me.

So, I will stand by the following quote "If SRT puts a blower on an ACR, they should also include a license plate that says POSER" so the package is complete.

[viperdan]

After watching the Z06 vids and hearing more about it... SRT is going to have to step it up I think! 15.4?" CCB 6 piston calipers in the front, 15" 4 piston rear, that aero and I am betting on the dyno it puts out more power and torque to the tire than the Gen V... Watch out that thing is sick..

They have had cups and CCB's in the past, the difference maker on this car will be the aero on a long course like the Ring. The cars numbers otherwise will be very ZR1 like IMO which as we all know are excellent.

[slitherv10]

This is your quote that triggered my response.

"It's unusable HP, but the bragging rights of owning one outweighs the later. It has always been about Hp and performance. that is why we are Owners of this car."

Sure, you are off by a big margin on the # of ACR's built and even bigger on those that take to the track, but my issue is this statement above. There was atleast 20 responses before this that should have given you the right answer. I think the thing you find is the ACR owner is a slightly different breed of Viper that is even more track oriented and track knowledgeable.

You statement suggests "bragging rights" and my experience of that person is they could not handle the stock HP let alone adding more and the sole reason for adding more was bragging rights? If that is the case, that is the definition of poser for me.

So, I will stand by the following quote "If SRT puts a blower on an ACR, they should also include a license plate that says POSER" so the package is complete.

I don't get it...so are you agreeing with me that a lot more HP would be unusable or are you saying that it would be more useable?
If you read my quote correctly and understand it, it says that a lot more Hp would be unusable as a track car which is what an ACR is geared for and should be left to owners to add HP to their cars as it suits them, be it the street or dragstrip, which, the ACR and production car is not geared for.

As far as bragging rights is concerned and why I quoted that, again, you need to read it and understand what your reading not just skimming through it.
As quoted, most people that add TT to their Vipers , usually dictates to a car that has soooo much HP that it renders it unusable HP, esp.. for its purposes. If your using it for street or track purpose, then its wasted HP, if your using it for the dragstrip then its usable.

Its really just common sense that I quoted and wrote. Its just something you need to read and understand whats said, that's all.

Unfortunately when you write things in text form as we all do here, it is sometimes translated differently without the true impression of expression in what were, and in my case, are trying to get across here.

Some get it some don't. Its all in the way you read and interpret it.

[rw99]

Keep the ACR NA, but find a way to bump it to 700 HP. While the aero is clearly the more critical component of road course performance, it's also slowing the car at the really high-speed tracks. Active aero is the compromise, but now we're talking significant added complexity. Probably not realistic.

As for blown, what about a "Drag Pack" Viper+Paxton option? That'd be cool... rollbar, please :eek:

[slitherv10]

Keep the ACR NA, but find a way to bump it to 700 HP. While the aero is clearly the more critical component of road course performance, it's also slowing the car at the really high-speed tracks. Active aero is the compromise, but now we're talking significant added complexity. Probably not realistic.

As for blown, what about a "Drag Pack" Viper+Paxton option? That'd be cool... rollbar, please :eek:

Well put.

[VENOM V]

Keep the ACR NA, but find a way to bump it to 700 HP. While the aero is clearly the more critical component of road course performance, it's also slowing the car at the really high-speed tracks. Active aero is the compromise, but now we're talking significant added complexity. Probably not realistic.

As for blown, what about a "Drag Pack" Viper+Paxton option? That'd be cool... rollbar, please :eek:

I like this idea of forced induction as an option too, because there is a large number of Viper owners that drag race. The TA and ACR need to stay focused on the road course. Something for everyone.

I don't know if active aero is significant added complexity, though. It seems to me that it wouldn't be that hard to design the mechanism, and testing would make it relatively simple for the team to dial in.

[rw99]

I don't know if active aero is significant added complexity, though. It seems to me that it wouldn't be that hard to design the mechanism, and testing would make it relatively simple for the team to dial in.

Todd, I'm thinking that the wing shape and position would change... and you'd have to figure out how to operate the whole thing within the hatchback structure. Presumably there'd need to be correlative changes occurring at the front of the car, too. Seems like a lot of real-world data would be needed to balance the optimal downforce vs. drag reduction equation.

And I'd want a Laguna Seca switch on it that I could activate just prior to cresting T1 :eek: :eek: :eek:

[VENOM V]

And I'd want a Laguna Seca switch on it that I could activate just prior to cresting T1 :eek: :eek: :eek:

LOL, no doubt I puckered every time I crested T1 at Seca. Downright scary the way the ass end starts making little side steps, hinting that the ass end is about to come around. I bet you don't feel that in the ACR like I do in my non-aero Gen V. Speaking of which...

Did I tell you I ordered the OEM carbon aero package? Oh yes, it will be in place by my next track event! Not quite as big as your wing, but I can live with wing envy for now
:smilielol:

[ViperGeorge]

Keep the ACR NA, but find a way to bump it to 700 HP. While the aero is clearly the more critical component of road course performance, it's also slowing the car at the really high-speed tracks. Active aero is the compromise, but now we're talking significant added complexity. Probably not realistic.

As for blown, what about a "Drag Pack" Viper+Paxton option? That'd be cool... rollbar, please :eek:

Aeromotions makes active wings. Founded by a bunch of MIT grads. Not overly complex. I actually had considered having one fit to my 06. They are in Cambridge, MA.

[slitherv10]

They have had cups and CCB's in the past, the difference maker on this car will be the aero on a long course like the Ring. The cars numbers otherwise will be very ZR1 like IMO which as we all know are excellent.

Considering this car has more downforce and more function body wise, I think it will definitely be ZR1 like and better. the added torque will certainly take the car out of corners a lot faster and into the straights and the smaller SC will let this car breath better and respond better than the ZR1.. The added aero will keep this baby planted. It will be interesting to see its track times for sure. Dyno numbers to me mean little.

[05Commemorative]

I don't get it...so are you agreeing with me that a lot more HP would be unusable or are you saying that it would be more useable?
If you read my quote correctly and understand it, it says that a lot more Hp would be unusable as a track car which is what an ACR is geared for and should be left to owners to add HP to their cars as it suits them, be it the street or dragstrip, which, the ACR and production car is not geared for.

As far as bragging rights is concerned and why I quoted that, again, you need to read it and understand what your reading not just skimming through it.
As quoted, most people that add TT to their Vipers , usually dictates to a car that has soooo much HP that it renders it unusable HP, esp.. for its purposes. If your using it for street or track purpose, then its wasted HP, if your using it for the dragstrip then its usable.

Its really just common sense that I quoted and wrote. Its just something you need to read and understand whats said, that's all.

Unfortunately when you write things in text form as we all do here, it is sometimes translated differently without the true impression of expression in what were, and in my case, are trying to get across here.

Some get it some don't. Its all in the way you read and interpret it.
I really did read your posts carefully. You entire post in a nutshell was:
1) we have the wrong question, most ACR owners don't track them (90%) is the figure you give (~1900), so shouldn't it have more power
2) most of HP is not usable and most that add sell after they have added
3) HP is what sells and bragging rights is the most important factor in purchasing a Viper
4) then you later add that customers should change gears/etc so the added HP could be useful for them in situations (drag strip)

Did I get it right?

What I am saying:
1) #1 was flawed to begin with because the data is not accurate. Your 10% # is way off for the ACR
2) #2 is accurate (I agree with you)
3) is the definition of a poser
4) ACR at the drag strip? aero is the last thing you need in the strip.

I think some confuse the ACR being "King of the Hill" with bests in (HP, top speed, 0-60, braking, track, strip, bragging rights, etc). It is not. It is the track rats favorite American weapon, but not the best at top speed, drag strip, etc).

[slitherv10]

I really did read your posts carefully. You entire post in a nutshell was:
1) we have the wrong question, most ACR owners don't track them (90%) is the figure you give (~1900), so shouldn't it have more power
2) most of HP is not usable and most that add sell after they have added
3) HP is what sells and bragging rights is the most important factor in purchasing a Viper
4) then you later add that customers should change gears/etc so the added HP could be useful for them in situations (drag strip)

Did I get it right?

What I am saying:
1) #1 was flawed to begin with because the data is not accurate. Your 10% # is way off for the ACR
2) #2 is accurate (I agree with you)
3) is the definition of a poser
4) ACR at the drag strip? aero is the last thing you need in the strip.

I think some confuse the ACR being "King of the Hill" with bests in (HP, top speed, 0-60, braking, track, strip, bragging rights, etc). It is not. It is the track rats favorite American weapon, but not the best at top speed, drag strip, etc).

Strike 2...no you didn't get it right. your putting thing into your own words and perspective. Not my quotes at all.

Here i'll help you out again.

Here is my quote word from word..pasted and copied.

"Is 640HP enough. of course it is, but, its not about it being enough and usable, its all about the bragging rights. that is why most put TT in their cars and sell them shortly after. It's unusable HP, but the bragging rights of owning one outweighs the later. It has always been about Hp and performance. that is why we are Owners of this car."

My quote was related to owners who TT or build their cars for more Hp when that much HP in the end is unusable. Of course that depends on your needs, track, street, etc. In the end having a 1000HP street TT , in most parts of the world streetwise ( other than Texas of course):o, is unusable. The 640Hp that the new car has is more than enough. Why they build cars with more HP as they have the new C7Z is simple fact. Marketing and "bragging rights" bragging rights in the definition that, its something that puts them a top the completion. Is the era of HP wars. Whether the car is faster or capable of utilizing that power (as lacks the new Mustang) its still the bragging rights of having more HP than the others. It is what it is.
That is what I am saying about bragging.
In my new thread posted earlier I have asked ACR owners why they bought theirs and to be honest, bragging rights is one of many other reasons people bought the ACR over the Coupe. Bragging again as defined above. As I stated in that thread, its not about sticking your tongue out or shouting out " look at my car" "look at what I have", its about why you bought the Viper in the first place. Because it is limited production and many one of ones and limited editions. Bragging rights in personal satisfaction if you may.

As afar as the dragstrip comment its meant to say that different people utilize the ACR for different purposes and a drag car is in some peoples interest.

King of the hill status is what the ACR did and will hold again. Your wrong there. It did hold that title. King of the hill means all those things that you state it does not have, 0-60, braking, top speed yet, it utilized all that in order to best the Nurburgring. That made it the King of the Hil in my books. King of the hill does not mean, the best at everything, but the best when all come together to work in synchro to achieve a goal. Which it has done over and over again at the track.

[KRATEDISEASE]

again..... NO !!

[05Commemorative]

Strike 2...no you didn't get it right. your putting thing into your own words and perspective. Not my quotes at all.

Here i'll help you out again.

Here is my quote word from word..pasted and copied.

"Is 640HP enough. of course it is, but, its not about it being enough and usable, its all about the bragging rights. that is why most put TT in their cars and sell them shortly after. It's unusable HP, but the bragging rights of owning one outweighs the later. It has always been about Hp and performance. that is why we are Owners of this car."

My quote was related to owners who TT or build their cars for more Hp when that much HP in the end is unusable. Of course that depends on your needs, track, street, etc. In the end having a 1000HP street TT , in most parts of the world streetwise ( other than Texas of course):o, is unusable. The 640Hp that the new car has is more than enough. Why they build cars with more HP as they have the new C7Z is simple fact. Marketing and "bragging rights" bragging rights in the definition that, its something that puts them a top the completion. Is the era of HP wars. Whether the car is faster or capable of utilizing that power (as lacks the new Mustang) its still the bragging rights of having more HP than the others. It is what it is.
That is what I am saying about bragging.
In my new thread posted earlier I have asked ACR owners why they bought theirs and to be honest, bragging rights is one of many other reasons people bought the ACR over the Coupe. Bragging again as defined above. As I stated in that thread, its not about sticking your tongue out or shouting out " look at my car" "look at what I have", its about why you bought the Viper in the first place. Because it is limited production and many one of ones and limited editions. Bragging rights in personal satisfaction if you may.

As afar as the dragstrip comment its meant to say that different people utilize the ACR for different purposes and a drag car is in some peoples interest.

King of the hill status is what the ACR did and will hold again. Your wrong there. It did hold that title. King of the hill means all those things that you state it does not have, 0-60, braking, top speed yet, it utilized all that in order to best the Nurburgring. That made it the King of the Hil in my books. King of the hill does not mean, the best at everything, but the best when all come together to work in synchro to achieve a goal. Which it has done over and over again at the track.

My last bite as this is getting very old. Just jumping on your last statement. "King of the Hill" never meant top speed or best 0-60. The car never had it and it is not how it got the record. The aero and tires and a new 5th gear is what got it. Please check your facts. You must know to have that much aero downforce, it slows down in top speed but speeds up your corner speed.

I will just leave off with my opinion: if you want a ACR for the track (it's designed purpose I think we can agree on), then a blower is not a good solution. This is what folks will quickly determine from the new C7Z like they did in the ZR1, but in the corvettes case, it was the only way to get that power level. If you have a V10 that is doing it NA, I don't think it makes sense to add weight, parts, etc to get more, even if your # 1 goal is bragging rights.

[Sybil TF]

No Brainer, Hell Yes!!!!!

[commandomatt]

Keep the ACR NA, but find a way to bump it to 700 HP. While the aero is clearly the more critical component of road course performance, it's also slowing the car at the really high-speed tracks. Active aero is the compromise, but now we're talking significant added complexity. Probably not realistic.

As for blown, what about a "Drag Pack" Viper+Paxton option? That'd be cool... rollbar, please :eek:

Now this is the best answer I have seen so far. I know we would probably be reaching since the funds to create a single new model is hard to find, getting two new ones with different power plants is over the top.

Great thought though

Regardless of what happens...the fancy interior has to go. Get back to something basic and put the money into the chassis and drive line.

Matt

[elanderholm]

no.
add active aero and a DCT and no one will remember the z06 vette.

[The_Greg]

If you could have impressive active aero (air braking and speed adjusting) is that worth foregoing 700 hp? In my eyes, for an ACR, yes.

[elanderholm]

If you could have impressive active aero (air braking and speed adjusting) is that worth foregoing 700 hp? In my eyes, for an ACR, yes.

I feel like they could do both and relatively inexpensively....maybe not a DCT that can handle 700HP/650(?)TQ. It wouldn't be cheap compared to the last ACR, but it would be ridiculously fast. They could always offer a manual and non active car too.

I'm against getting rid of the nice interior. It's not like a cheap interior weighs substantially less, unless they are going to gut it. A true hardcore version with completely stripped interior might be nice option for some.

[DreadLox]

Keep it NA and push the HP up to 700hp, like rw99 said.... AT LEAST 700... I'm all for forced induction but the Viper should be left all motor. Only vehicle I can think of capable of such numbers that's all motor

And.... Power to weight ratio is always key!!

[ViperSmith]

At this point I wish SRT would offer a blower option so everyone would finally shut up.

But of course, people would find something else to complain about.

[commandomatt]

I feel like they could do both and relatively inexpensively....maybe not a DCT that can handle 700HP/650(?)TQ. It wouldn't be cheap compared to the last ACR, but it would be ridiculously fast. They could always offer a manual and non active car too.

I'm against getting rid of the nice interior. It's not like a cheap interior weighs substantially less, unless they are going to gut it. A true hardcore version with completely stripped interior might be nice option for some.

I mentioned the interior since its really not adding anything performance wise. This ACR will be expensive regardless and I would rather see the upgraded interior money being put to use somewhere else in the drive line where it will make a difference. The interior layout can still be the same....just not the high end material and finish

Matt

[v10enomous]

I remember back in 2007 I thought a supercharged GT500 was blasphemy... Times they are a changing. The Viper needs an FI option.

[Dusty1]

After reading all this, I think I never heard anybody mention weight loss. Granted minimizing the interior could be read that way but lets reduce the weight and the existing ACR areo becomes more effective. I run down here in Texas where summer track temps are usually 100 plus. I own an 08 coupe converted to my homeboy ACR that I am gutting and converting to an X. I challenge anyone on this thread to say they need more than 640+_ HP on a roadcourse. Other than mile cars where are you using this HP? I run with ZR1's at TWS regularly, they start out faster for about three laps, then they start heat sinking. At least we as Viper owners can feel the car we go out there for a session is very close horsepower wise to the car we come back into the pits. With the KW3's 1000lb rear springs, ACR's are not confortable street cars unless you like wearing a kidney belt. That suspension setup becomes valid as the performance envelope expands. Aero starts becoming really effective above 85, well above the speed limit. With the investment in Carbon Fiber by SRT beginning with the Gen V I can see a bear bones seriously weight reduced ACR would give us a next gen track weapon. Seems like more and more "track" cars are doing it with computers. How refreshing to go the other direction but better by multipling the things the ACR does best by lightening the load. The basic drive line is rock solid and I for one hope it stays that way over adding another 100HP.

Richard

[VENOM V]

After reading all this, I think I never heard anybody mention weight loss. Granted minimizing the interior could be read that way but lets reduce the weight and the existing ACR areo becomes more effective. I run down here in Texas where summer track temps are usually 100 plus. I own an 08 coupe converted to my homeboy ACR that I am gutting and converting to an X. I challenge anyone on this thread to say they need more than 640+_ HP on a roadcourse. Other than mile cars where are you using this HP? I run with ZR1's at TWS regularly, they start out faster for about three laps, then they start heat sinking. At least we as Viper owners can feel the car we go out there for a session is very close horsepower wise to the car we come back into the pits. With the KW3's 1000lb rear springs, ACR's are not confortable street cars unless you like wearing a kidney belt. That suspension setup becomes valid as the performance envelope expands. Aero starts becoming really effective above 85, well above the speed limit. With the investment in Carbon Fiber by SRT beginning with the Gen V I can see a bear bones seriously weight reduced ACR would give us a next gen track weapon. Seems like more and more "track" cars are doing it with computers. How refreshing to go the other direction but better by multipling the things the ACR does best by lightening the load. The basic drive line is rock solid and I for one hope it stays that way over adding another 100HP.

Richard

Excellent post Richard, I couldn't agree more. A great lesson for me was when I was recently tracking at Buttonwillow and RedSled rode along with me to give me some tips. I had been downshifting to 2nd gear for many of the corners, thinking that the extra torque would yield faster lap times. Jonathan (RedSled) suggested leaving it in 3rd for all but the slowest corner on the track, rather than unsettling the car with gobs of torque. Boy was he right, this led to smoothness, smoothness led to shaving seconds off of my lap times. Funny thing is that it "felt" faster leaving it in 2nd with all of that torque, but it sure wasn't. Now I wasn't upsetting the car with downshifts, then feathering the throttle and trying not to break loose on corner exit with all that torque, then losing time on my upshift. I turned my fastest lap the very next session. Felt slower but smoother. It was significantly faster.

Long story short, HP is last on my wish list for ACR improvements. Focus the money and engineering elsewhere - aerodynamics, brakes, suspension, and most definitely weight loss.

[v10enomous]

What major manufacturer that makes high performance cars has absolutely no forced induction option in their entire lineup ?

On a side note. No hybrid or plug in either.

[FLATOUT]

What Richard said, get rid of weight! Find away to produce a 3,100lb Viper with 640hp, and Aero and you have another world beater on your hands.

[cashcorn]

whatever the f12 has.. that is a great video!!

[City]

After reading all this, I think I never heard anybody mention weight loss. Granted minimizing the interior could be read that way but lets reduce the weight and the existing ACR areo becomes more effective. I run down here in Texas where summer track temps are usually 100 plus. I own an 08 coupe converted to my homeboy ACR that I am gutting and converting to an X. I challenge anyone on this thread to say they need more than 640+_ HP on a roadcourse. Other than mile cars where are you using this HP? I run with ZR1's at TWS regularly, they start out faster for about three laps, then they start heat sinking. At least we as Viper owners can feel the car we go out there for a session is very close horsepower wise to the car we come back into the pits. With the KW3's 1000lb rear springs, ACR's are not confortable street cars unless you like wearing a kidney belt. That suspension setup becomes valid as the performance envelope expands. Aero starts becoming really effective above 85, well above the speed limit. With the investment in Carbon Fiber by SRT beginning with the Gen V I can see a bear bones seriously weight reduced ACR would give us a next gen track weapon. Seems like more and more "track" cars are doing it with computers. How refreshing to go the other direction but better by multipling the things the ACR does best by lightening the load. The basic drive line is rock solid and I for one hope it stays that way over adding another 100HP.

Richard
YES! You beat me to it. I was surprised that it wasn't mentioned till now. Find a way to take 200 lbs out of the car and you've got everything you need. Probably cost $100/lb., but that's the best path.

[rw99]

Weight savings, yes obviously, but where's that coming from (in a significant amount)? I seem to remember they went through the car pretty carefully when designing the Gen V. Where would you pull 200-300 lbs off a car that already has the track pack?

[v10enomous]

Weight savings, yes obviously, but where's that coming from (in a significant amount)? I seem to remember they went through the car pretty carefully when designing the Gen V. Where would you pull 200-300 lbs off a car that already has the track pack?

The frame...

[ViperGeorge]

Forced induction does not, IMO, belong on an ACR. It would heat soak and get progressively slower each lap. Keep it natural, add horses via tune or headers or something. AND take out some weight. Thinner glass, more carbon fiber, more aluminum, whatever it takes.

[SWEEN]

If the new ford F150 can have an all aluminum frame why can't the viper? That would save some weight. Not a ton of weight but I still don't see why it can't have carbon ceramic brakes. Like didn't the SRT engineers say that it would crack if the viper had them? I'm no engineer but how can that be when you got all these Hypercars like the P1 that have them?

Edit: Don't think the new Ford F-150 has an all aluminum frame lol. It has some steel but has a "new aluminum intensive structure"

[Newport Viper]

So most of you would rather have a 640HP NA ACR Viper than a "heat soaked" 800HP blown factory warranty ACR?

I'm calling BS on this one.

[v10enomous]

You can get the vette with or without a blower. It should be an option. Either way, I really don't see the Z06 as a Viper killer. They are different cars and each has it's own appeal.


Forced induction does not, IMO, belong on an ACR. It would heat soak and get progressively slower each lap. Keep it natural, add horses via tune or headers or something. AND take out some weight. Thinner glass, more carbon fiber, more aluminum, whatever it takes.

[V10LEE]

At this point I wish SRT would offer a blower option so everyone would finally shut up.

But of course, people would find something else to complain about.

A Mopar blower would probably cost $25K.. Lol..

[V10LEE]

If the new ford F150 can have an all aluminum frame why can't the viper?

The reason: Money..

SRT was on a shoe string budget building this car. That is why you see a lot of carry over parts from the Gen 4..

[VENOM V]

So most of you would rather have a 640HP NA ACR Viper than a "heat soaked" 800HP blown factory warranty ACR?

I'm calling BS on this one.

Well I'm not religious about NA, but that's my preference for a track car. A reliable, simple, easy to work on, non-heat-soaked monster 8.4L. But as I said in my first post, I'm not opposed to forced induction. Lots of other manufacturers have pulled it off in track worthy machines. But I lean towards NA. Especially because they can focus the development dollars on the other more pressing areas - aero, weight reduction, brakes, suspension.

[rw99]

How much does the frame weigh, anyway? Curious.

[FLATOUT]

So most of you would rather have a 640HP NA ACR Viper than a "heat soaked" 800HP blown factory warranty ACR?

I'm calling BS on this one.

I would take an NA 680-700 HP ACR over an 800 horse blower car all day. An ACR isn't a roll race car, or a drag car it's the road race car. I would love to see a supercharged or twin turbo car in the line up I just don't want it on the ACR.

[Dman]

I don't mean this to sound negative, just to be clear on the tone. I think the way SRT has spent so much effort on interior, paint colors, and things like that, that when I hear Ralph say radical I don't think of the engine anymore. I'd think maybe wide body, special wheels, special paint schemes, true racing styled seats and interior, track apps, aero, and if it's really extreme then CC brakes and/or a PDK type trans.

Oh, as to the poll, I'd say no on the ACR, but a high HP option would be sweet.

[05Commemorative]

After reading all this, I think I never heard anybody mention weight loss. Granted minimizing the interior could be read that way but lets reduce the weight and the existing ACR areo becomes more effective. I run down here in Texas where summer track temps are usually 100 plus. I own an 08 coupe converted to my homeboy ACR that I am gutting and converting to an X. I challenge anyone on this thread to say they need more than 640+_ HP on a roadcourse. Other than mile cars where are you using this HP? I run with ZR1's at TWS regularly, they start out faster for about three laps, then they start heat sinking. At least we as Viper owners can feel the car we go out there for a session is very close horsepower wise to the car we come back into the pits. With the KW3's 1000lb rear springs, ACR's are not confortable street cars unless you like wearing a kidney belt. That suspension setup becomes valid as the performance envelope expands. Aero starts becoming really effective above 85, well above the speed limit. With the investment in Carbon Fiber by SRT beginning with the Gen V I can see a bear bones seriously weight reduced ACR would give us a next gen track weapon. Seems like more and more "track" cars are doing it with computers. How refreshing to go the other direction but better by multipling the things the ACR does best by lightening the load. The basic drive line is rock solid and I for one hope it stays that way over adding another 100HP.

Richard

100% agree

[05Commemorative]

I don't mean this to sound negative, just to be clear on the tone. I think the way SRT has spent so much effort on interior, paint colors, and things like that, that when I hear Ralph say radical I don't think of the engine anymore. I'd think maybe wide body, special wheels, special paint schemes, true racing styled seats and interior, track apps, aero, and if it's really extreme then CC brakes and/or a PDK type trans.

Oh, as to the poll, I'd say no on the ACR, but a high HP option would be sweet.
I think you are correct. I suspect downforce, extreme looking hood (whatever that means) wild colors. honestly, lower the weight as said above and that would be good with me.

[05Commemorative]

So most of you would rather have a 640HP NA ACR Viper than a "heat soaked" 800HP blown factory warranty ACR?

I'm calling BS on this one.

I will take the bate, why do you say that? Have you driven on a road course? I ask because all of my daily drivers are blown cars and totally love them on the street. But when I go to the track, would not want them as just a different sort of power. hard to describe.

[05Commemorative]

What major manufacturer that makes high performance cars has absolutely no forced induction option in their entire lineup ?

On a side note. No hybrid or plug in either.

Not sure what your point is. But when I look at the cars top model for the track, they do not have forced induction. 911 Turbo is for the street, not the track. Ferraris, lambo's, Audi R8 all NA. I guess you could say the GTR because a turbo, but kind of required for the small engine and heavy weight of the car. Z06 will be first blown car which could say is unique. Maybe you are thinking of particular models you think are for the track that I am missing?

[slitherv10]

Sooner or later this Hp war will have to stop. Track cars can only utilize a certain amount of HP to be viable on a road course. Will having 800 or 1000 Hp make all that difference on a road coarse such as Nurburgring? Will it eventually reach a point where the extra Hp will be a negative trait and hinder the performance and eventually the track times?
SRT needs to focus on the future of this car and its reason for living. Once the max is reached, where will they go with the ACR, what design features will they modify and what changes will be needed to make this and any car belong. What does the future hold and how much more can they do to accommodate the tracks these cars run on.

[ACRucrazy]

I think we need another gentleman's agreement! 276 hp it is!

[Shooter]

I think we need another gentleman's agreement! 276 hp it is!


LOL. And those Skylines went right off the dealers lot and into a shop where the boost was turned up.

[J TNT]

Having Boost as an option , and not necessarily on the ACR , would be a great choice for Buyers and sales ! Especially given that 1 in 3 Viper Owners , like to Mod their cars ! :drive:

[FLATOUT]

Having Boost as an option , and not necessarily on the ACR , would be a great choice for Buyers and sales ! Especially given that 1 in 3 Viper Owners , like to Mod their cars ! :drive:

I agree want it in the lineup just not on the dedicated road race car.

[VENOM V]

I agree want it in the lineup just not on the dedicated road race car.

Also agree. TA and ACR = no boost. But a boosted Gen V would no doubt drive sales. It will naturally also raise all kinds of other issues such as traction. Without all wheel drive or other means, you won't be able to hook those wheels to the ground. And you know all wheel drive is not going to happen. Also, a supercharged engine as an option had better not rob resources from ACR and convertible development, those should be top priority. Aside from those details, it would be smart if this supercharger were both a factory option and available from Mopar. I have no interest in this personally, but there are clearly a lot of candidate buyers that would be.

[Newport Viper]

I will take the bate, why do you say that? Have you driven on a road course?

Just to stir it up a bit. Got to keep the forums lively is all and, a yes to the second question. fun fun!

[KRATEDISEASE]

for the third time now....no!!

[MR Viper]

Gentlemen

My goodness, such opinions and slander on this post.... your mother wants me to relay to all of you that she's disappointed in your online behavior. So is Santa, while I'm at it.

But, of course, keep all the good banter about future product wishes coming. Not that we read this stuff or anything.

Ciao ;)

[viperkenric]

Twin turbos!!

[ACRucrazy]

Gentlemen

My goodness, such opinions and slander on this post.... your mother wants me to relay to all of you that she's disappointed in your online behavior. So is Santa, while I'm at it.

But, of course, keep all the good banter about future product wishes coming. Not that we read this stuff or anything.

Ciao ;)

Ahaha, love this post. :dude3: