Stock Intake with DSE Heat Shield VS K&N Intake with Heat Shield and Smooth Tubes

[SNK3BIT]

Which one is superior or which one is more preferred?

[Junkie]

I have the stock intake with DSE heat shield. I haven't done back to back testing but it seems like Paul made more power with an Agency power or K&N intake, but its going to heat soak faster, so you're going to need to build a custom air box.

[Voice of Reason]

Stock intake, DSE heat shield, smooth tubes, K and N panel filter. It's as good as you'll get since anything that replaces the stock air box doesn't seal to the hood completely.

[donk_316]

Source for the tubes?

[FLATOUT]

Stock intake, DSE heat shield, smooth tubes, K and N panel filter. It's as good as you'll get since anything that replaces the stock air box doesn't seal to the hood completely.

This. IAT's actually rise as you approach redline with the non sealed K&N & AP setup where as they fall during the pull with a factory sealed box on the car.

[mnc2886]

Source for the tubes?

I second that question.

[NT-ACR]

Source for the tubes?

I believe he's referring to these:

http://www.viperpartsrack.com/viper-engine/smooth-tubes-viper

[donk_316]

$160 for generic turbo tubing? Cmon... I can buy this crap in bulk from the speedshop for literally 10 times less.

[NT-ACR]

$160 for generic turbo tubing? Cmon... I can buy this crap in bulk from the speedshop for literally 10 times less.

:t1236:

I couldn't agree more.

[Junkie]

JonB sells the tubes.

[ViperGeorge]

If the smooth tubes add free HP why didn't the factory just specify smooth tubes to begin with? Couldn't have added much in the way of cost. Did they specifically want the turbulence that the non-smooth tubes introduced to the input air stream???

[sadil]

Lol yeah thats a huge waste. Looks perfect with the plastic valve covers tho ... :stickmen_burningsti

[sadil]

If the smooth tubes add free HP why didn't the factory just specify smooth tubes to begin with? Couldn't have added much in the way of cost. Did they specifically want the turbulence that the non-smooth tubes introduced to the input air stream???

These generic tubes are likely not as robust as the harder plastic used on the stock car. On top of that, the stock tubes seem to account for the engine moving around when it torques and look like they are absorbing the movement (through the grooves) rather than transmitting it to the airbox that is rigidly connected to the rest of the car. Not saying the tubing wont work though, they probably work fine and depending on the motor mounts, there might not be much movement at all to endanger the intake tubes. But still, it just may not meet Chrysler's durability requirements or cost (they might be an existing part that is sitting on the shelf).

[SSGNRDZ_28]

The effectiveness of the K&N Airbox has been debated long before my debut in the Viper world. My attempt at an unbiased $0.02:

The sealing of the factory Airbox to the hood is key for 2 reasons:
- Reduced IAT
- “Ram Air” effect or positive pressure at higher speeds

I know from back-to-back testing the factory airbox will produce IAT 5-10+ degrees hotter just with the drain plug missing, a ~0.5" diameter hole... What will the K&N produce with an even larger hole to the engine bay? As FLATOUT mentioned, IAT will go down at full throttle on the stock airbox, but actually rises at full throttle with the K&N.

Another note - most or all of the above are not necessarily shown on the dyno, they are results of real world driving.

One last option I’d like to throw out there is the K&N replacement filter with the stock airbox and DSE heat shield. This could produce additional airflow and further reduced IAT but perhaps at the cost of reduced filtering effectiveness.

If I didn't believe in the advantages of the stock airbox and heat shield, I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of design and production, nor would I be running it on my own car.

Thanks
Doug

[mnc2886]

The effectiveness of the K&N Airbox has been debated long before my debut in the Viper world. My attempt at an unbiased $0.02:

The sealing of the factory Airbox to the hood is key for 2 reasons:
- Reduced IAT
- “Ram Air” effect or positive pressure at higher speeds

I know from back-to-back testing the factory airbox will produce IAT 5-10+ degrees hotter just with the drain plug missing, a ~0.5" diameter hole... What will the K&N produce with an even larger hole to the engine bay? As FLATOUT mentioned, IAT will go down at full throttle on the stock airbox, but actually rises at full throttle with the K&N.

Another note - most or all of the above are not necessarily shown on the dyno, they are results of real world driving.

One last option I’d like to throw out there is the K&N replacement filter with the stock airbox and DSE heat shield. This could produce additional airflow and further reduced IAT but perhaps at the cost of reduced filtering effectiveness.

If I didn't believe in the advantages of the stock airbox and heat shield, I wouldn't have gone through the trouble of design and production, nor would I be running it on my own car.

Thanks
Doug

Well put. I think my first mod will be your heat shield.

[Martin]

The heat shield sounds like a no brainer to me. Doesn't look like it can be related to any far-fetched failure that would otherwise be covered under warranty.

What has me scratching my head is any modification that may (in some crazy person's mind) affect the durability of anything engine related. Seems like in this day and age, if you put anything on the car that could remotely be considered by FCA as a warranty risk, you change your mind and just don't do it. I remember hearing, for example, that the throttle bodies are rather fragile - and replacing the tubes might cause problems in extreme conditions. I've also heard that the K&N filters don't filter as well as the stock units. So, while these would be some of the first mods I'd do to the car, FCA has got me so afraid of unrelated warranty denial (and the pain in the a$$ that proving I'm right will cause) that I'm questioning anything non-stock that should be done to the car.

Really sucks that we don't have the Dodge of old to stand behind their halo car like we did in the past.

[Nightstalker]

Stock intake, DSE heat shield, smooth tubes, K and N panel filter. It's as good as you'll get since anything that replaces the stock air box doesn't seal to the hood completely.


This is the set-up I use too.

[Arizona Vipers]

Stock intake, DSE heat shield, smooth tubes, K and N panel filter.

Do you have the part # for the K&N panel filter?

[Nightstalker]

This is the number from Summit Racing: KNN-33-2432 @ 62.99

[Jdmuscle]

I need a damn heat shield... :(

[dewilmoth]

Is the K&N really proven to make more power? I've never been a fan of oiled filters, and in most performance cars I've owned it's turned out that the factory dry filter flows plenty without the hassles of oil getting on the MAF sensor. The panel filter on the Viper is pretty big, so I'd be surprised if the stocker really restricts flow.

[v10tt]

K&N panel filter gains here:
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/625484-2008-ACR-on-the-Dyno-w-Headers-Exhaust-Mopar-ECU-K-amp-N

[Voice of Reason]

The stock filter is almost twice as thick as the K&N filter, I posted pics last year showing the difference looking in through the hood scoop and the paper filter hangs down pretty far where the K&N tucks up nicely. If the stock filter is hanging down in the air flow then it's blocking some ram air effect. And second with the paper filter being so thick it would naturally heat soak and retain more heat than the K&N.

I can report I've put 6k miles on my K&N over the past year and it's never set a code, this was an early reported concern by some.

[dewilmoth]

K&N panel filter gains here:
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/625484-2008-ACR-on-the-Dyno-w-Headers-Exhaust-Mopar-ECU-K-amp-N

I'm not sure I'd take a modified Gen IV as proof. But thanks for the link, I hadn't seen that.


The stock filter is almost twice as thick as the K&N filter, I posted pics last year showing the difference looking in through the hood scoop and the paper filter hangs down pretty far where the K&N tucks up nicely. If the stock filter is hanging down in the air flow then it's blocking some ram air effect. And second with the paper filter being so thick it would naturally heat soak and retain more heat than the K&N.

I can report I've put 6k miles on my K&N over the past year and it's never set a code, this was an early reported concern by some.

I look at the thick filter a little differently than you do. I'd say it likely has more surface area because the pleats are deeper. But I could be wrong, I haven't seen the filters side by side. What in really interested in is a high flow dry filter, that would be ideal.

[Arizona Vipers]

This. IAT's actually rise as you approach redline with the non sealed K&N & AP setup where as they fall during the pull with a factory sealed box on the car.

Hey Andy, do you use the factory filter or the K&N filter?

[SSGNRDZ_28]

This is the number from Summit Racing: KNN-33-2432 @ 62.99

If anyone is interested in these I can get a better price.