acceptable oil consumption?

[KB Viper]

I'm confused on what to think but my service advisor has told me that FCA has said that 1 quart every 750 miles is within the acceptable limit so my 1 quart every 1k miles is actually good... A member on this forum sent me this article, it s a great read. What do y'all think, what other issues arise from excessive oil consumption? A gentleman at Arrow told me the worst issue is that excessive oil consumption effective lowers the octane rating and will cause knock/detonation.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm

[BJG32]

Other issues? Spun bearings for the ignorant owners!

Seriously though...I thought it could cause premature cat failure???

[donk_316]

I would accept 0 as an acceptable amount of oil consumption on a freshly broken in engine.

Be it a wiz bang import 4 cyl that sees 9000rpm, v-twin air cooled HD which spins at 5800rpm or the big 8.4L v10 that redlines at 6700rpm
Hell my single cylinder lawn mower hasn't had oil added in 5 years.

After 1500kms my engine stopped using oil. I tracked oil use at every fill up as per the manual.

[tiki240]

Im starting to think that oil consumption might be whats causing my car to occasionally fall into limp mode

[swexlin]

As I mentioned on FB, not acceptable. All you can really do is keep it documented.

[sadil]

Sustained oil consumption throughout your car's life is unacceptable but people live with it and manufacturers such as Porsche even say its normal. Realistically it is, to an extent. Just the nature of how engines work and the mechanisms used for sealing and pressure control. However, if your going through several quarts....its obvious that is not normal. With forged pistons, there is definitely going to be a break-in period, but after that the consumption should be limited.

Oil being consumed (past the rings) will cause irregular combustion and knock for sure. You are correct. This could eventually lead to pre-ignition as well and your gonna start damaging your pistons.

In regards to lubrication, the more oil you burn, the less you have available for lubrication which is obviously going to kill anything that needs oil to survive. The components in your engine do not see uniform oil pressure, instead you have a range. The system is designed to ensure the farthest low pressure areas of the engine see sufficient oil supply. When you dont have enough oil in the system these areas might fall into the "wear" zone due to lack of oil supply and wear will lead to failure

In regards to pressure control, if your losing oil through the PCV system, then your gonna be throwing oil into your intake, gunking your valves, and also causing knocking, misfires and combustion issues.

It is also important to note that if you are using the car for frequent short trips, the engine oil will eventually become somewhat diluted with water and fuel. The moment you drive on the freeway and build heat, all that excess stuff will evaporate and you will see a true level that may be lower then what you saw earlier. Some manufacturers tell you right away consumption is normal and you should be adding some oil every 600-700 miles.

[swexlin]

Im starting to think that oil consumption might be whats causing my car to occasionally fall into limp mode

How much is your car using? And how exactly are we telling? I assume the safe zone (at least on my '13 dipstick) is a 2-quart range. Is that correct?

[Terminator02]

Sustained oil consumption throughout your car's life is unacceptable but people live with it and manufacturers such as Porsche even say its normal. Realistically it is, to an extent. Just the nature of how engines work and the mechanisms used for sealing and pressure control. However, if your going through several quarts....its obvious that is not normal. With forged pistons, there is definitely going to be a break-in period, but after that the consumption should be limited.

Oil being consumed (past the rings) will cause irregular combustion and knock for sure. You are correct. This could eventually lead to pre-ignition as well and your gonna start damaging your pistons.

In regards to lubrication, the more oil you burn, the less you have available for lubrication which is obviously going to kill anything that needs oil to survive. The components in your engine do not see uniform oil pressure, instead you have a range. The system is designed to ensure the farthest low pressure areas of the engine see sufficient oil supply. When you dont have enough oil in the system these areas might fall into the "wear" zone due to lack of oil supply and wear will lead to failure

In regards to pressure control, if your losing oil through the PCV system, then your gonna be throwing oil into your intake, gunking your valves, and also causing knocking, misfires and combustion issues.

It is also important to note that if you are using the car for frequent short trips, the engine oil will eventually become somewhat diluted with water and fuel. The moment you drive on the freeway and build heat, all that excess stuff will evaporate and you will see a true level that may be lower then what you saw earlier. Some manufacturers tell you right away consumption is normal and you should be adding some oil every 600-700 miles.

Effing awesome explanation. I remember we ran into those car guys at the meet that were just spewing bro science at you on how it's "just the way an engine works."

[ViperJon]

Interesting that it's "just how it is" now but Gens 1,2,3 and 4 didn't burn any oil.

[TrackAire]

I'm confused on what to think but my service advisor has told me that FCA has said that 1 quart every 750 miles is within the acceptable limit so my 1 quart every 1k miles is actually good... A member on this forum sent me this article, it s a great read. What do y'all think, what other issues arise from excessive oil consumption? A gentleman at Arrow told me the worst issue is that excessive oil consumption effective lowers the octane rating and will cause knock/detonation.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm

Very interesting article....especially what Audi, Honda and Toyota have done to help remedy the situation a little....maybe FCA can follow the same path:

-Meanwhile, a settlement to a class-action lawsuit against Audi would extend the power*train warranty on its 2009 to 2011 model-year CAEB 2.0-liter turbo engines to eight years or 80,000 miles. Audi declined to comment on the litigation or oil-*consumption problems in general.


-Honda recently issued a warranty extension to eight years or 125,000 miles for 2008 to 2011 Accord and 2010 to 2011 CR-V four-cylinder engines. Honda said it had found that sticking piston rings could lead to higher oil consumption if the engine is revved hard when cold, when combined with prolonged usage of low-quality gasoline.


-And following the filing of a class-action lawsuit in California regarding its four-*cylinder 2AZ-FE engines sold in some 2007 to 2011 models, Toyota amended its powertrain warranty on those engines to 10 years or 150,000 miles. A Toyota representative said, “This program provides complete relief to owners who are currently affected, as well as those who have previously paid for repairs.”

[Terminator02]

A class action.... You don't say.

[swexlin]

Interesting that it's "just how it is" now but Gens 1,2,3 and 4 didn't burn any oil.

Took the words out of my mouth!

[SRT_BluByU]

i think that is above FCAs normal limits. You might consider request to see the threshold testing document n writing...

[cashcorn]

Gen V is the first Gen with forged pistons. big difference

[tiki240]

How much is your car using? And how exactly are we telling? I assume the safe zone (at least on my '13 dipstick) is a 2-quart range. Is that correct?

16.5k I added two quarts. now at 17.3 and showing at the bottom line of safe zone.

[Larryskillzs]

Does anyone know how many quarts lost still keep the stick in the safe zone?

Remember that the Viper takes 11 quarts of oil.

If the car loses 1.5quarts of oil in 1000 miles, that's about 11-12% of oil capacity.

To compare, my S2000 burns 1 quart of oil around every 1500 miles and it has 55k on the clock. That oil consumption is around 20% of the capacity since it takes 5.1 quarts for an oil change.

I've owned so many sports cars over the years, I find all of these oil loss numbers minimal.

Now, if you are burning 5 quarts in 2000 miles, there might be an issue.

[Jack B]

The 450 hp G2's, 96-99 had forged pistons.



Gen V is the first Gen with forged pistons. big difference

[Terminator02]

Does anyone know how many quarts lost still keep the stick in the safe zone?

Remember that the Viper takes 11 quarts of oil.

If the car loses 1.5quarts of oil in 1000 miles, that's about 11-12% of oil capacity.

To compare, my S2000 burns 1 quart of oil around every 1500 miles and it has 55k on the clock. That oil consumption is around 20% of the capacity since it takes 5.1 quarts for an oil change.

I've owned so many sports cars over the years, I find all of these oil loss numbers minimal.

Now, if you are burning 5 quarts in 2000 miles, there might be an issue.

Different engines not a comparison. No gen 2-4 viper had oil consumption issues like SOME gen Vs. mine uses no oil and I'm highly modified.

[Larryskillzs]

Did Gen 1-4 Engines come with forged Pistons? Ok, the Gen 2 did and they never burned any oil?

I know the Gen V did. Is that the biggest difference between engines?

Some people say forged Pistons need more time to seat, while some others say that's totally not true. It would be very helpful to get an accurate answer on this important question. If we had the proper answer it would explain the oil burn in the gen v compared to the gen 1-4.

Any mechanical engineers roaming around?

[Terminator02]

We're Gen 1-4 Engines come with forged Pistons?

I know the Gen V did. Is that the biggest difference between engines?

Some people say forged Pistons need more time to seat, while some others say that's totally not true. It would be very helpful to get an accurate answer on this important question. If we had the proper answer it would explain the oil burn in the gen v compared to the gen 1-4.

Any mechanical engineers roaming around?

Gen 1 was forged. Gen 2 were forged until 1999. Gen 3-4 I believe we're back to forged but am not 100% certain. A mechanical engineer on here stated that forged need more time to seat but shouldn't take more than the 1500 mile break in.

[Jack B]

The best answer would be to ask the service manager, why does mine burn oil when 98% plus of the vipers do not? There just does not seem to be many people claiming their car burns oil.

Sort of interesting. my 2013, 5.7 Grand Cherokee burned a quart every 5000 miles, my 2015 grand Cherokee burns zero.



I'm confused on what to think but my service advisor has told me that FCA has said that 1 quart every 750 miles is within the acceptable limit so my 1 quart every 1k miles is actually good... A member on this forum sent me this article, it s a great read. What do y'all think, what other issues arise from excessive oil consumption? A gentleman at Arrow told me the worst issue is that excessive oil consumption effective lowers the octane rating and will cause knock/detonation.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm

[bluesrt]

Once a car is broke in a quart every 3k is acceptible, but odd. Very little oil usage like none to 1/4 quart is good engine. Hell after my acrx was broke in it never used oil and i ran the holy toledo out of it

[sadil]

If you want to ensure your pistons are seated, do a leak down test. High consumption cars should give it a shot.

[Larryskillzs]

If you want to ensure your pistons are seated, do a leak down test. High consumption cars should give it a shot.

Best advice of the day. Makes perfect sense. If your leakdown test is good and you are still losing oil, where the hell would it be going?

[TrackAire]

Once a car is broke in a quart every 3k is acceptible, but odd. Very little oil usage like none to 1/4 quart is good engine. Hell after my acrx was broke in it never used oil and i ran the holy toledo out of it


bluesrt,
Did the ACR-X come from Dodge with forged pistons?.....I can't remember. I do know the standard Gen 4's had hypereutectic pistons.

[ViperGeorge]

Just drove my 2015 TA 2.0 over 750 miles this past weekend. Car burned exactly ZERO oil. Still at the top of the safe zone just like it was when I left. AND yes I know how to check the oil.

[catwood]

I wonder if the added RPM level in the Gen V causes ring flutter and the additional oil burning. Do those having the issue right it out alot. I'm fairly conservative on the street but pull alot higher RPM on the track. though I haven't burned oil on there either.

count my blessings I guess......

[swexlin]

16.5k I added two quarts. now at 17.3 and showing at the bottom line of safe zone.

So that's 2 quarts in 800 miles? That's making the assumption that the safe zone is 2 quart range, and that it was at the top when you added.

[Whitey]

If you want to ensure your pistons are seated, do a leak down test. High consumption cars should give it a shot.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/car-maintenance/car-maintenance-archive/how-to-do-a-leakdown-test

[bluesrt]

bluesrt,
Did the ACR-X come from Dodge with forged pistons?.....I can't remember. I do know the standard Gen 4's had hypereutectic pistons.

yes forged pistons, new it used a quart every 200 miles till it hit around 800 miles, then stopped

[darbgnik]

My Viper used a quart or two to get to 1500kms, just over a 1000 miles, then not a drop since, with extensive track use.


My Gallardo used quite a bit of oil, but it makes sense, seeing as it was basically a fancy Audi engine. :)

[KB Viper]

Does anyone know how many quarts lost still keep the stick in the safe zone?

Remember that the Viper takes 11 quarts of oil.

If the car loses 1.5quarts of oil in 1000 miles, that's about 11-12% of oil capacity.

To compare, my S2000 burns 1 quart of oil around every 1500 miles and it has 55k on the clock. That oil consumption is around 20% of the capacity since it takes 5.1 quarts for an oil change.

I've owned so many sports cars over the years, I find all of these oil loss numbers minimal.

Now, if you are burning 5 quarts in 2000 miles, there might be an issue.

after being over 5k miles back in the summer of 2015, I didn't check oil as frequently due to everyone agreeing that excessive oil was only consumed in the first 5k miles during breakin. After 2k miles when driving under heavy load my oil pressure gauge on the dash started flashing red. I called Mark J and he said to drive very carefully to a auto parts store and add oil immediately. It took 3 quarts to finally read oil on the safe zone of the dipstick so I say anything more than 3 quarts down is dangerous.

[Larryskillzs]

after being over 5k miles back in the summer of 2015, I didn't check oil as frequently due to everyone agreeing that excessive oil was only consumed in the first 5k miles during breakin. After 2k miles when driving under heavy load my oil pressure gauge on the dash started flashing red. I called Mark J and he said to drive very carefully to a auto parts store and add oil immediately. It took 3 quarts to finally read oil on the safe zone of the dipstick so I say anything more than 3 quarts down is dangerous.


That's really good info to know. It's safe to say you were at a minimum 3 quarts low and maybe 4-5 from the top of the full line?

Since the oil pan is so long, I would bet from top to bottom of the "safe" zone would be between 2-3 quarts. Or is is less?

It would be so nice to have a SRT engineer answer these simple questions.

[swexlin]

after being over 5k miles back in the summer of 2015, I didn't check oil as frequently due to everyone agreeing that excessive oil was only consumed in the first 5k miles during breakin. After 2k miles when driving under heavy load my oil pressure gauge on the dash started flashing red. I called Mark J and he said to drive very carefully to a auto parts store and add oil immediately. It took 3 quarts to finally read oil on the safe zone of the dipstick so I say anything more than 3 quarts down is dangerous.

Damn Kris, you dodged (ha, I made a funny, Dodge, get it....) a bullet there. That would have freaked me out.

[swexlin]

That's really good info to know. It's safe to say you were at a minimum 3 quarts low and maybe 4-5 from the top of the full line?

Since the oil pan is so long, I would bet from top to bottom of the "safe" zone would be between 2-3 quarts. Or is is less?

It would be so nice to have a SRT engineer answer these simple questions.

Agreed Larry, hopefully someone knows for sure. I always assumed the safe zone (at least on my 13) was 2 quarts.

[Bill Pemberton]

Agree, oil usage is something none of us like , but all these comments that there was never any issues with Gen I, IIs, IIIs, IVs, etc. is also not completely true. I think the concern is when usage should stop and whether some initially is that unusual? We used to give everyone a quart of oil when the took off in their new Gen IIs as it was not uncommon for a new Viper to use some oil on the way home. Those of us that tracked Gen IIs , usually made sure we had a quart or two in the trailer --again not unusual to use a quart or so on a track weekend( in fact most of us overfilled just a bit ). Both of my Gen IIs used some oil when tracked , but as the miles continued they both used less and less. We seem to forget what happened years and years ago as if no problem ever existed , yet it did to many folks. The concern here is what usage is really abnormal, and at what point is it a major concern? Like all of you I would love to think an engine should use none, but driving conditions , heat, track use, time , etc. can all have some impact.

[lmcgrew79]

My 2016 acr used around 18 quarts and stopped around 3000 miles. My TA used roughly 12 in the same about of time. Both went directly to 15w50 after 500 miles, not sure if that is what took longer, but so far so good. Acr is now at 4000 miles.

[swexlin]

My 2016 acr used around 18 quarts and stopped around 3000 miles. My TA used roughly 12 in the same about of time. Both went directly to 15w50 after 500 miles, not sure if that is what took longer, but so far so good. Acr is now at 4000 miles.

What? 18 quarts in 3000 miles? A quart every 167 miles?

[bluesrt]

Retract. Not correct. Major tom to ground control

[lmcgrew79]

What? 18 quarts in 3000 miles? A quart every 167 miles?

Yes with 3 oil changes in between. Im positive i would have ran it low on oil if i never checked it, wondering if that is happening to some people. No shavings, no smoke, i did kill a passenger front o2 sensor but it didnt look that bad.