Arrow PCM Poll

[Voice of Reason]

Please vote in the poll, just curious about some stats as it relates to voided warranties.

The poll is not public meaning your vote will remain secret.

[VENOM V]

Guys, I've remained quiet about this for a while but thought I'd throw in my $.02.

The difference in performance is so small, why risk denial of warranty service and do this? You're not going to feel the difference in acceleration, it's not going to shave any significant amount of time off a lap, I just don't see the benefit.

Unless you've got deep pockets and you're going so far as heads/cam/longtube headers, I don't know why anyone would want to install this. Don't get me wrong, I love modding engines like the next guy, but a tune alone isn't going to get you far. Vipers are fast as hell stock, and these engines are not cheap.

After having two track car engines blow up in the last two years (neither of which were Vipers), I'm very cautious about doing a mod like this. The factory tune is conservative for a reason, it improves longevity.

[BDZ1984]

I have it sitting in the trunk of the car yet to be installed. Holding off till there is some out come of the two engine that have been posted.

[Junkie]

The only draw for the Arrow ECU for me was it still being covered under warranty, now that doesn't seem to be the case so I'm not very interested. I would rather use HPT if I'm not getting a warranty.

[Voice of Reason]

Guys, I've remained quiet about this for a while but thought I'd throw in my $.02.

The difference in performance is so small, why risk denial of warranty service and do this? You're not going to feel the difference in acceleration, it's not going to shave any significant amount of time off a lap, I just don't see the benefit.

Unless you've got deep pockets and you're going so far as heads/cam/longtube headers, I don't know why anyone would want to install this. Don't get me wrong, I love modding engines like the next guy, but a tune alone isn't going to get you far. Vipers are fast as hell stock, and these engines are not cheap.

After having two track car engines blow up in the last two years (neither of which were Vipers), I'm very cautious about doing a mod like this. The factory tune is conservative for a reason, it improves longevity.

Knowing what we know right now about how warranties are being treated I'm in agreement. But 1.5 years ago when I had it and headers installed at my dealer there was never as much as a hint that the engine warranty going away was an option. I'd revert it all back TODAY if there was a way to go get an official inspection done at my dealer to restore the warranty but it doesn't work that way.

[7TH_SIGN]

Such a easy answer. If you don't have it installed, do not install it.

I will go even further and recommend you leave the car completely bone stock. No exhaust, no intake, nothing! Only way to be sure that your warranty will cover your failed engine. Also do not service the car yourself, take it to the dealership. I really do feel that FCA will try everything they can to deny a warranty claim, even for the reason of you putting Mobil 1 engine oil when they recommend a different brand.

And when your warranty has expired, I hope you have some saved funds on the side for the engine replacement/repair.

Enjoy the car you have paid $100k for that you can't do anything to.

Do I have this correct?

[KB Viper]

i have arrow stage 2 and LOVE IT, cammed Vipers ROCK!!!!

[Special Ed]

I refuse to answer on the grounds that it may incriminate me.

I bought my car with 3200 miles on it and I believe the pcm was installed, at the owners request, before it was delivered.
It is what it is. 9100 miles no oil usage. Knock on wood.

[texasram]

Such a easy answer. If you don't have it installed, do not install it.

I will go even further and recommend you leave the car completely bone stock. No exhaust, no intake, nothing! Only way to be sure that your warranty will cover your failed engine. Also do not service the car yourself, take it to the dealership. I really do feel that FCA will try everything they can to deny a warranty claim, even for the reason of you putting Mobil 1 engine oil when they recommend a different brand.

And when your warranty has expired, I hope you have some saved funds on the side for the engine replacement/repair.

Enjoy the car you have paid $100k for that you can't do anything to.

Do I have this correct?
Don't you do your own oil changes? Will you continue?

[7TH_SIGN]

Don't you do your own oil changes? Will you continue?

Yeah I do all my own work. I'm screwed if my engine fails. :dude3: And it will. I really believe now that it's much more than 5% of production GEN Vs that have issues from the factory.

[donk_316]

What a ridiculous "sky is falling" trend this has become. Arrow controllers are designed and programmed by the same people who built and designed the engine. Saying they cause damage is nearly slanderous.

[ViperJon]

Yeah I do all my own work. I'm screwed if my engine fails. :dude3: And it will. I really believe now that it's much more than 5% of production GEN Vs that have issues from the factory.

I agree. I'll bet it's an unprecedented percentage for any car of one generation. Taking a subset like 159 2014 TA's and we know of at least 8 here alone I'll bet the failure rate is closer to 10%.

[Special Ed]

I agree. I'll bet it's an unprecedented percentage for any car of one generation. Taking a subset like 159 2014 TA's and we know of at least 8 here alone I'll bet the failure rate is closer to 10%.

That means that there's a 90% chance I won't have a problem. I like my odds.

[7TH_SIGN]

I agree. I'll bet it's an unprecedented percentage for any car of one generation. Taking a subset like 159 2014 TA's and we know of at least 8 here alone I'll bet the failure rate is closer to 10%.

I'm with you! I would be very interested in knowing the exact number thus far. I know there are a great number of owners who don't belong to this forum.

[7TH_SIGN]

That means that there's a 90% chance I won't have a problem. I like my odds.

I have horrible luck. I'm sure I'm one of them lol.

[Batmobile]

I'm with you! I would be very interested in knowing the exact number thus far. I know there are a great number of owners who don't belong to this forum.

I would be interested in how many of these blown engines was due to guys just assuming there car doesn't use oil and was low on oil and cause the bearing failure

[7TH_SIGN]

I would be interested in how many of these blown engines was due to guys just assuming there car doesn't use oil and was low on oil and cause the bearing failure

Good point. I also wondered this. I'm sure some of them were due to this.

[SACA]

I would be interested in how many of these blown engines was due to guys just assuming there car doesn't use oil and was low on oil and cause the bearing failure

I just got a piece of information from a dealers tech, he checked about 600 VIN numbers 2013, 2014, 2015 and found 46 engines replaced under warranty, there are more that I haven't yet checked. Thats 7.7% of those motors.

[Scotts-ACR]

Please tell me how a tune can spin a bearing?

It can't. Missassembly can, low oil can, bad filtration can... A tune however can not.

[SACA]

Please tell me how a tune can spin a bearing?

It can't. Missassembly can, low oil can, bad filtration can... A tune however can not.

Scott - This is the reason everyone is so upset. I am dealing with car with out a motor or warranty due to the Arrow PCM. Lets hope that FCA comes to their senses and takes care of us.

[Scotts-ACR]

I get it, and I'm sorry you lost a motor. I'm on my 3rd motor in my GTR and 2nd trans. I feel the pain. However I knew the risks and beat the bag out of it at TX2K... I had to pay to play.

[bluesrt]

Amazing all the gen 4 cars out there modded to hell and no engine fails. To talk about. All the acrx cars with differant tunes. None blew motors to talk about. Crazy

[Batmobile]

Good point. I also wondered this. I'm sure some of them were due to this.

I think a lot of the guys figure it's a new car so they assume no oil use and the it would use oil and then would be low and with the design of oil cooler it would get metal flakes in oil cooler ect ect. I think a lot of the guys baby there cars from the beginning and rings don't seat good and caused oil usage also, I bought a 2016 and gave it hell from 500 miles and never had a issue changed oil regular and never used a drop and at 6400 miles it hauls ass

[Vibert]

I just got a piece of information from a dealers tech, he checked about 600 VIN numbers 2013, 2014, 2015 and found 46 engines replaced under warranty, there are more that I haven't yet checked. Thats 7.7% of those motors.

And that number will continue to rise as more miles and years are accumulated on these cars. How high will it go? 9%? 10%? 15%? Probably higher because I'd wager ALL these engines have the same defect. They are all built the same way and with the same components.

Rot in hell FCA. And to those mid level executives who are making these decisions: I wish upon you a thousand lifetimes worth of pain and misery in all aspects of your mortal existence followed by the stench of sulphur and searing blazes to be suffered in an eternal damnation. Verily, you are worthless beings.

Good night.

[XSnake]

Amazing all the gen 4 cars out there modded to hell and no engine fails. To talk about. All the acrx cars with differant tunes. None blew motors to talk about. Crazy

Gen IV values on the rise :D

[7TH_SIGN]

I think a lot of the guys figure it's a new car so they assume no oil use and the it would use oil and then would be low and with the design of oil cooler it would get metal flakes in oil cooler ect ect. I think a lot of the guys baby there cars from the beginning and rings don't seat good and caused oil usage also, I bought a 2016 and gave it hell from 500 miles and never had a issue changed oil regular and never used a drop and at 6400 miles it hauls ass

This latest engine failure on the 2015 had the R29 done. It also had the correct amount of oil. That's what scary to me.

- - - Updated - - -


And that number will continue to rise as more miles and years are accumulated on these cars. How high will it go? 9%? 10%? 15%? Probably higher because I'd wager ALL these engines have the same defect. They are all built the same way and with the same components.

Rot in hell FCA. And to those mid level executives who are making these decisions: I wish upon you a thousand lifetimes worth of pain and misery in all aspects of your mortal existence followed by the stench of sulphur and searing blazes to be suffered in an eternal damnation. Verily, you are worthless beings.

Good night.

I agree.

[Steve M]

Amazing all the gen 4 cars out there modded to hell and no engine fails. To talk about. All the acrx cars with differant tunes. None blew motors to talk about. Crazy

It is a well known fact that Gen 4s had a better build quality all around. I've got a mint-ish version ready to go if anyone wants to do a straight up swap with their Gen 5. Comes with a tune too. I may not be Dick Winkles, but those that know me often call me a dick...close enough?

[bluesrt]

Ya well they call me prick!@

[viperdriver5150]

I have horrible luck. I'm sure I'm one of them lol.

I have great luck for the most part and took a chance on a gen 5 knowing there were some issues. Enough said.

[Jdmuscle]

I think a lot of the guys figure it's a new car so they assume no oil use and the it would use oil and then would be low and with the design of oil cooler it would get metal flakes in oil cooler ect ect. I think a lot of the guys baby there cars from the beginning and rings don't seat good and caused oil usage also, I bought a 2016 and gave it hell from 500 miles and never had a issue changed oil regular and never used a drop and at 6400 miles it hauls ass

This.. I like this guy's way. Babying the car generally could result in oil consumption. If the two owners that have reported the motor failures recently share their break in process it'll be helpful.

[RedTanRT/10]

Gen IV values on the rise :D

I sure hope so! About to sell mine, 700 hp with bolt-on's and DC (SPT) ported heads/intake and the latest Arrow re-flash. 16k trouble free miles and doesn't use any oil.

[1Koolasp 16ACR]

My Arrow PCM Has Been In Since 5 Miles On The Clock , Now At 1800 Miles And Runs Perfect, 3 Oil Changes In And Only Needed A Quart ,The 1st 300 Miles , Then That Was A Thing Of The Past,:dancingman: All Good , But I Do Check Before Every Drive, Motor Blows, Then I Will Ship The Car To Todd At A&C Performance , And Will Pay To Rebuild The Motor, And Let Todd Build It His Way, So Let It Blow, Let It Blow, Let It Blow !!!! Really Don't Care, $uck It

[kverges]

Modifying the car raises complex issues. For me, I am super conservative and I just don't want to create an issue regarding Warranty as I like to use my car on track and that is pushing it enough. For example I already had to take my car in for an ominous ticking sound and misfire on cylinder five error. Turned out to be loose no 5 spark plug. But the tech had to gratuitously write up that tire wear showed signs of "racing." I race and track driving is way different.

When I do modify I am a real hard ass with companies that claim it won't affect the warranty. I ask for a written indemnification for any problems and a written commitment to go to bat with me against the manufacturer should the warranty be denied.

This sure does sound like a bit of a war between arrow and Dodge, with owners caught in the middle.

Finally, I suppose I will take some flack for this, but I don't get hot rodding a car that already makes more horsepower than almost anything out there. If I was already running track record pace everywhere, then OK maybe more power is in order. But until then why hotrod is my personal thinking