Arrow racing pcm upgrade

[badness]

Im sure its been asked before
How many of you have done the Arrow Racing PCM upgrade?
And was that all that you did?
How were the results?
Did the car run hotter?
Any feedback will be helpful.


2016 ACR with Extreme package Silver with black center stripe red drivers stripe.

[NT-ACR]

Im sure its been asked before
How many of you have done the Arrow Racing PCM upgrade?
And was that all that you did?
How were the results?
Did the car run hotter?
Any feedback will be helpful.


2016 ACR with Extreme package Silver with black center stripe red drivers stripe.

Don't do it. It isn't worth the hassle.

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/14568-2016-Viper-GT-spun-bearing?highlight=spun+bearing
http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/14954-Outcome-for-2016-Viper-GT-Spun-bearing?highlight=spun+bearing

[BJG32]

I have it with high flow cats. Noticeable difference in power and sound, but you may want to wait until this warranty issue plays out as NT-ACR stated above. I love it, but definitely not worth voiding the warranty over...

[Dman]

First of all, you bought the wrong car, you should immediately sell it ... I'd be willing to take one for the team and take it off your hands. lol
You ACR-E color combo is my absolute favorite, congrats on an awesome choice.

As you can imagine, you're going to get a broad spectrum of responses. Since you got one extreme already, pun intended, I'll give the other.

I did the Arrow, but also with Belanger exhaust. It's an incredible upgrade. The throttle response is hugely improved, the car runs smoother, it sounds better, etc., plus of course the HP bump through the whole power range. I loved my setup and would recommend it.

As you can see, we have one car that has encountered a bearing failure, that the owner is now fighting to have covered. Basically if FCA takes the position that any mod, regardless of impact to the failure (as the Arrow is in no way linked to a spun bearing) then you'd be at risk with your warranty if you swapped the PCM, or if you upgraded your stereo, changes tires or wheels, or literally any mod whatsoever from the way the car was delivered. So that's what you have to keep in mind, but we're still waiting on the resolution to the one example we have of FCA balking, the jury is still out & FCA is still looking at the car according to those involved, we're all hoping they do the right thing and then this isn't a real issue.

[7TH_SIGN]

I have it. Love it. Car should have come like that from the factory. I have it with a cat less exhaust system.

If you modify the car you run risks of warranty claims not being covered by the manufacturer. This could be the manufacturer blaming your aftermarket exhaust, headers or anything else they can place the blame on. Just part of modding a car still under the factory warranty. This has always been the case with most auto manufacturers.

[sadil]

The question is why you want the Arrow PCM upgrade?

Do you want the car to be louder and feel stronger? If yes, go aftermarket exhaust (catback or full length high-flow cat or cat-less). Will probably have to deal with a CEL for the CAT being removed but shouldn't need a tune. You will get more sound, a little (probably negligible) power bump, but the already bat-shit crazy viper driving experience will only get better. Therefore, no need for PCM upgrade.

OR

Are you currently using 100% of your car's power and feel the need to want more? Is that need worth more than voiding your warranty? Are you okay with FCA not covering your 25K engine if a failure occurs post-PCM upgrade irregardless of the root cause? Do you want to truly unlock all of the potential from your 8.4L engine? If you answered yes to all 4 question, go with the PCM upgrade and do the full exhaust upgrade including headers.

The decision is yours. I think to say "anything" will void your warranty is misleading as if voiding your warranty is what the cool kids are doing these days. No FCA will not void your engine warranty if you change your tires and wheels or add an aftermarket stereo (maybe bumper to bumper if you manage to electrically f&$% everything up). That is a ridiculous thought. A PCM upgrade is much more involved and much more critical to engine operation and every manufacturer clearly states your warranty is out the door if you choose to do so. All of us would do the same if we were designing and selling cars. I tuned my NA Boss 302 because everyone was doing it. The power bump was okay at best. It was a great to have but not worth blowing my warranty. Good luck!

[ViperJon]

Lumping appearance and/or non performance mods in with obvious performance mods is simply being disingenuous regarding warranty coverage.

[Terminator02]

I definitely am not using 100% power... Yet. I've had one year of stock and one month aftermarket full NA Arrow stage ll build. I'd never go back. But I can't stand v10 sound... At all.

So as said it's what you prefer. Though some disagree these cars are an incredible value so if something goes wrong I know I can fix it with the right people and it will not cost 25k. 7-10k assuming some sort of small block or long block rebuild. For me personally that's worth it and I wouldn't have bought a car if I wasn't liquid enough for repair.

With that, I wouldn't void a warranty only for a controller. For a full exhaust I think it can be well worth it with the right tune. Especially if you love a strong sound. People don't necessarily know my Viper, they know my sound more so.

So you have to do your own costs benefits analysis and then decide. PCM alone I wouldn't do but that's only me.

[Dman]

Lumping appearance and/or non performance mods in with obvious performance mods is simply being disingenuous regarding warranty coverage.

FCA is attempting this approach. If you upgrade your stereo, you're messing with the electronics and modding the car, the car lives off the radio, it can't even be turned off. If you change wheels and tires you alter drivetrain dynamics and gear ratios, rendering your drivetrain warranty void. FCA is taking a position of the owner proving his/her mod didn't cause the failure, vs the other way around. If you dropped 18 speakers into an ACR post delivery and spun a bearing and FCA says prove your messing with the electronics which control everything in the car didn't cause it, you're as high and dry as if you put in a PCM made in coordination with SRT by the engineer of the engine. This why what they are attempting is so egregious, CFd engine covers could alter u dear hood temps and void your warranty. Once you remove the line, then everything is in question that's not exactly as delivered. That is prudent fair warning until this one case is resolved.

[Dman]

I definitely am not using 100% power... Yet. I've had one year of stock and one month aftermarket full NA Arrow stage ll build. I'd never go back. But I can't stand v10 sound... At all.

So as said it's what you prefer. Though some disagree these cars are an incredible value so if something goes wrong I know I can fix it with the right people and it will not cost 25k. 7-10k assuming some sort of small block or long block rebuild. For me personally that's worth it and I wouldn't have bought a car if I wasn't liquid enough for repair.

With that, I wouldn't void a warranty only for a controller. For a full exhaust I think it can be well worth it with the right tune. Especially if you love a strong sound. People don't necessarily know my Viper, they know my sound more so.

So you have to do your own costs benefits analysis and then decide. PCM alone I wouldn't do but that's only me.

I second this post, good points all around.

[KB Viper]

do it, you'll love it.

[Nightstalker]

^^^i agree with KB. Do it, you will love it

[docwviper]

I like it. I over heat at the track after about 20 minutes of hard racing. Basically the track to myself with nobody on it for a while. however, this could be driving style for me.

[Arizona Vipers]

Do it. If you ditch the cats as well it turns a so-so sounding car into the best sounding car in the world.
Everyone you pass or give a ride to will be in awe. If you are driving s stock computer/exhaust Viper you aren't representing! LOL

[Darius]

I love it just for the decel sound. I could care less about the 20hp. On the track expect about 10 degrees hotter on the coolant. Next time on the track during hot weather its coming out, and yes I was running 93 or above.

[ViperJon]

FCA is attempting this approach. If you upgrade your stereo, you're messing with the electronics and modding the car, the car lives off the radio, it can't even be turned off. If you change wheels and tires you alter drivetrain dynamics and gear ratios, rendering your drivetrain warranty void. FCA is taking a position of the owner proving his/her mod didn't cause the failure, vs the other way around. If you dropped 18 speakers into an ACR post delivery and spun a bearing and FCA says prove your messing with the electronics which control everything in the car didn't cause it, you're as high and dry as if you put in a PCM made in coordination with SRT by the engineer of the engine. This why what they are attempting is so egregious, CFd engine covers could alter u dear hood temps and void your warranty. Once you remove the line, then everything is in question that's not exactly as delivered. That is prudent fair warning until this one case is resolved.

You're extrapolating all that from ONE case where we don't even know all the details and the resolution yet.
Talk about the sky is falling hysteria based on nothing.

[The_Ruski_Driver]

Do it. If you ditch the cats as well it turns a so-so sounding car into the best sounding car in the world.
Everyone you pass or give a ride to will be in awe. If you are driving s stock computer/exhaust Viper you aren't representing! LOL

You wouldn't happen to have a before/after video clip, would you?

[SnakeWatching]

Just saw on CNBC that Harley Davidson had to settle with the EPA today for selling a tool/software for changing the engine controller (for more performance). Even if software was used for "Off Road" use, the EPA said it violated Clean Air standards.

Could this affect PCM upgrade sellers?

[sadil]

Anyone running stock tune with cat-less headers?

[Dave1968]

Just saw on CNBC that Harley Davidson had to settle with the EPA today for selling a tool/software for changing the engine controller (for more performance). Even if software was used for "Off Road" use, the EPA said it violated Clean Air standards.

Could this affect PCM upgrade sellers?

I would say this could be a game changer. Now you're faced with the rock and a hard place scenario. Do I put my controller in now before we hear about how FCA is going to handle the warranty claims or wait, but if you wait, it might get to where no one will put the controller in because they will be charged and fined by the EPA. Personally, my car didn't get the R28, just the R29, so after my next trip, about 8,000 kms over the next two weeks, I will have around 22,000 kms on the clock, I feel that's a good enough test and the controller will be going in then. I can't wait!!

[7TH_SIGN]

You wouldn't happen to have a before/after video clip, would you?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wgCD7V63Fs

[sadil]

Wow. That is amazing. Sounds like there is a lot drone too at low rpms, was that the mic or is it bad? I wonder how much of that I can get by just going catless and aftermarket muffler.

[NT-ACR]

Another reason to not do it:

http://driveviper.com/forums/threads/15183-Another-15-Spung-Bearing-Denied-Warranty

[Augdog1964]

As long as there is warranty, no mods will be done on my ACR-E... just too dangerous.

[Dman]

You're extrapolating all that from ONE case where we don't even know all the details and the resolution yet.
Talk about the sky is falling hysteria based on nothing.

And then there were two. It's only a matter of time before we see one denied due to 20" wheels being installed or some other lame ass reason. Sky isn't falling IMO, I'm just planning around this issue, I'm still shopping for an ACR-E, no hysteria, just putting the facts out there. FCA has pulled the line on warranty claims, if you do anything to your car, you may be one of those who ends up testing if there is any line at all. You can not buy, or buy with knowing this and plan accordingly - which is my path. I've posted before, even with a re-build, for the total cost of ownership, the ACR is still a bargain and cheaper than any other car I'd be interested in considering as a replacement - that would under perform the ACR. So, I'm still here, it'd take more than some bean counting taint-cheese eaters at FCA to turn me from the viper.

[Bruce H.]

nm..

[Scotts-ACR]

Again - tunes do not spin bearings.

I'd say do it. I did it as I want more RPM in 2nd gear for the track, saves me a shift.

[Martin]

Again - tunes do not spin bearings.

I'd say do it. I did it as I want more RPM in 2nd gear for the track, saves me a shift.

This about sums up my concern about the "validity" of FCA's warranty denials. If the tune allows you to run at higher RPMs, doesn't that possibly put more stress on the bearings than what they would encounter with a stock controller? I know it's only a couple hundred RPMs, but if FCA has determined that those RPMs are enough to grenade an engine, this could be a difficult discussion.

[Scotts-ACR]

I could see valve issues / pushrod / rocker for raising the rev limits. However spinning a bearing on the crank? I dont think so. That is a oiling issue, or assembly issue. Could be an oil squirter issue. Could be miss machining of the crank / or oil holes in the crank. Lots of things it could be that a good motor builder could diagnose.

Would be interesting to see lab results of oil samples before this happened.

[ACRucrazy]

How many Gen IVs has spun bearings with the arrow tune? I have yet to hear of one..