Help Needed for MOPAR PCM module.

[Getnlwr]

2 hours at the dealer... in the shop trying to get this fu***g thing programmed right. It took the VIN, window drop works as it should. Took 5 tried to get the gas pedal to work. Ugh... At first the VT was trying to program it via a wireless tool that was synced to the computer in the shop. When we switched to a handheld tool stuff started to work correctly and programming got better. I got to the point when you have to do the speed up to 50mph then slow down to 20 in second gear and I did it repeatedly and it did not change the values. I am also getting a crank sensor error. Engine seemed run correctly. The VT ran out of time and asked me to bring it back. VT thought driving it may get it to read and doing a few drive cycles might help it. On the way home after a stop somewhere else the Check Engine light came on. He pre warned me that it might, and that it wouldn't hurt anything. Ironically, I bought the thing to help reduce the chance of getting the CEL lighting up, and the race PCM is what ends up lighting it up.

I could use some words of wisdom from you guys. Most of you guys know this stuff well, please give any advice if you have it.

2008 model year.

[ACRucrazy]

If the learn procedure was not completed, yes it can throw the CEL on and even put the car into limp mode or misfire.

You need to get the tech to complete the learn/drive procedure. We did mine in my garage and took it out on the back roads to get the misfire detection learned without issue.

Wish I had a tip for ya, other than if its not learned I would put the stock PCM back in for now.

[Getnlwr]

When I got back after the drive ( I did the learn cycle instead of the VT ) I had the instructions in my lap while doing the cycle. With the crank sensor not being learned or if the car didn't accept the sensor info, would the misfire detection system not be able to learn? He looked at the 1-32 range, that are supposed to be numbers other than 10000 and they were still at 10000 on all of them.

[MI Viper]

Good luck, sorry don't have any advice BUT I will be watching this thread, because this is the kind/type of issue, that is holding me back from going the Mopar RCM route, because my little local Dodge SRT dealer MIGHT Not have the skills to do this mod, and then I'm stuck like you are now.

[FLATOUT]

Sounds to me like your Viper Tech needs to call a more experienced Viper Tech and learn how to install a Mopar PCM lol. If he didn't install it properly I'm not surprised it didn't function correctly.

Hopefully he gets it installed correctly and you get to enjoy the car.

[mjorgensen]

The steps for installing the PCM are VERY specific and if they are not followed to a tee there will be problems. When they first came out the instructions were vague and there were problems at the dealer level, but once this was changed and the instructions detailed there have been very few issues. Swapping tools in the middle could be the issue, I would have him try and start over first, it that doesn't help call me and we can try to find another route.

[ACRucrazy]

The steps for installing the PCM are VERY specific and if they are not followed to a tee there will be problems. When they first came out the instructions were vague and there were problems at the dealer level, but once this was changed and the instructions detailed there have been very few issues. Swapping tools in the middle could be the issue, I would have him try and start over first, it that doesn't help call me and we can try to find another route.

Agreed. I wish I had more input when we flashed mine. I was just the dude in the drivers seat reading the directions and pushing the gas pedal. My buddy was the one going through all the menus. It was his first time doing one for a Viper and didn't have any issues.

I will take pictures/more detailed info when I do another one this spring from scratch for the forum. Right now the car is in storage until we get above 0 and the snow melts. :/

[MtnBiker]

I have a question. I have not had any problems with my Mopar PCM. But, it in order to pass annual state inspection I have to put the original back on and then run the emissions tests, then put the Mopar back on after that. I would like to do the swap from Mopar back to OEM myself then drive the hundred miles then get the inspection done, then put the Mopar back in myself. Is there any problem with this? I am under the impression that once the Mopar unit is properly installed this swap can be done with the simple relearn happening during the 100 mile drive etc.

[mjorgensen]

I have a question. I have not had any problems with my Mopar PCM. But, it in order to pass annual state inspection I have to put the original back on and then run the emissions tests, then put the Mopar back on after that. I would like to do the swap from Mopar back to OEM myself then drive the hundred miles then get the inspection done, then put the Mopar back in myself. Is there any problem with this? I am under the impression that once the Mopar unit is properly installed this swap can be done with the simple relearn happening during the 100 mile drive etc.

That is correct, just a mechanical swap, but if you have mods then you can still get a CEL and non pass.

[ACRucrazy]

I have swapped in my stock PCM a few times without issue.

[MtnBiker]

Very good MJ/ACR, thanks! My mods are in my signature. I have not had any CELs so far (except when O2 sensor burned).

[mjorgensen]

Very good MJ/ACR, thanks! My mods are in my signature. I have not had any CELs so far (except when O2 sensor burned).

Yeah missed that sorry, glad to hear you can run your Belangers without the PCM and still pass.

[Westxsrt10]

Yeah missed that sorry, glad to hear you can run your Belangers without the PCM and still pass.

Wasn't easy but I was able to get my 08 (full Belanger exhaust No Mopar PCM) to pass OBD2 port smog test 2 months ago. Took 2 hours and a few days of higher rpm drive cycles/ higher idle rpms to remove all but one "inc".

[Getnlwr]

When I get a non raining day, I'll be heading back to the dealer to try and give Mark a call if it doesnt work again. I still have thw instructions next to me, and I distinctly remeber the tech telling me the computer that programs the car doesn't have the same menu options as described in the instructions. It was pretty frustrating at that point. The code the pcm is showing is p0315 crank sensor not learned.

[ViperGTS]

When I get a non raining day, I'll be heading back to the dealer to try and give Mark a call if it doesnt work again. I still have thw instructions next to me, and I distinctly remeber the tech telling me the computer that programs the car doesn't have the same menu options as described in the instructions. It was pretty frustrating at that point. The code the pcm is showing is p0315 crank sensor not learned.

here you go ...the installation on my 2008 went smooth with the Chrysler computer in the car, me driving, the mechanic doing the computer thing...a few minutes of driving.

[ACRucrazy]

We used the old starscan on mine. Buddy said he hates it because its slow, but it worked.

[Getnlwr]

I had a great conversation with Mark today. I appreciate everyone who is offering advice.

The Star scan is the hand held scanner? We went back and forth between and hand held one and the wireless one linked to a desktop. Does the hand held thing (about a foot wide touch screen computer) do the same thing as the wireless on the desk top? Do I have to use one specifically or the other specifically?

Instructions I have are these:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/Getnlwr/Viper%202008/InstructionsPCM1_zps5b5488f3.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/Getnlwr/Viper%202008/InstructionsPCM2_zpsdc4344ab.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/Getnlwr/Viper%202008/InstructionsPCM3_zpsdf9433ba.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b326/Getnlwr/Viper%202008/InstructionsPCM4_zpse0385834.jpg

Where I think we got stuck was item 5.4 in the instructions. The P0315 code would also indicate this as far as I can tell. coincidentally I had to scan these instructions in. I couldn't find a copy anywhere on the web. I also have it in a PDF instead of JPEG if anyone wants a copy of it.

[ACRucrazy]

The starscan was the wide hand held that plugged into the OBDII port.
5.4 is what took him some time to find IIRC

[Getnlwr]

So he should be able to do it all with the hand held thing...

one other thing. Per the instructions...

for 5.4 -

Put Key to Run... engine off ( I think)
reset TEC and MANV,
Fuel tank is nearly full... (with 25% 100 octane mixed with 75% 92oct.

When you get to the bottom with the:
"Perform the misfire TEC LEARN procedure and allowing the car to reach operating temperatures Keep engine below 2400 RPM or the learn will be prematurely ended"

Does the car have to be COLD when this is started? If it doesn't, How long should this take if it's already warmed up?

It says to then back out of screen then the instructions to set the adaptive number.

This is where the issues are coming in.

[Dan Cragin]

I think the issue you have is that they did not re-learn the adaptive numerator, which aligns the crank position of your particular car. Every car differs a bit so you need to set that on a new PCM. It requires a drive cycle where you bring the car up to about 4000 rpm and let it coast down to idle (no brakes). I do that a few times then check with a scanner to see if it has passed. Hope this helps.

[Tom Sessions]

I ran into this on the last Mopar PCM i installed. The latest version of the WI-Tech will not let you reset the info for the misfire relearn.It won't even let you see it. I spoke with someone very familiar with the unit. And he said the PCM was designed to be installed using the Star Scan. So I would go back and start over using the Star Scan only. Hope this helps.

[Steve-Indy]

As Tom noted, newer wiTECH has an issue here.

Older edition that we used that day was wiTECH Application 12.01.109 which had proper steps to reset misfire relearn. After using 12.01.109 edition, the Mopar PCM install proceeded normally.

[Getnlwr]

Alright! This is pretty much narrowed it down to the cause. I'll try it at the dealer with the Star Scan, unless there is a private individual in the Puget Sound area with one. From there if it doesn't work, I got a lot of info from Mark to try out as well.

[ACRucrazy]

I would think once you get a starscan you should be G2G. Enjoy the new PCM!

[Tom Sessions]

Have you had a chance to try programming the PCM again?

[Getnlwr]

I will most likely get a chance on Wed.

[Getnlwr]

STUPID F*****G CAR!

3 hours.

3 HOURS! at the dealer with the star scan.

I can't get the "Adaptive Numerator NOT Learned" to "Learned"


Okay... Went through this procedure 4 times. Not working. I am Very Appreciative to Mark for his time on the phone trying to help me through this debacle. At his advice I put the stock one back in. Then reset it, and had it need to go into learn mode. It would not learn it. This led him to think potentially the crank sensor may be malfing or just dirty... Anyone else got any input here? Code P0315 still prevelant - Crank sensor. Ironically, the car seems to run fine. Not sure how but, its obviously smarter than I am. Can anyone tell me where the sensor is on the block? Ramps needed or can it be reached from the bay? Thank you

Getnlwr -

[ACRucrazy]

Is the code present with the stock PCM?

[Getnlwr]

It's "pending" It will be active next drive cycle. (IE when I go to work tomorrow)

[mjorgensen]

It's "pending" It will be active next drive cycle. (IE when I go to work tomorrow)


Does the car have MORE then 1/4 tank of fuel? SRT says that is critical. You may want to try a "manual reset" before the learn if you have not, but I think you indicated above you are doing that.

[Getnlwr]

Mark, I was concerned. The first time I tried it last week I had it at about 1/3 tank. Before I went to the dealer yesterday I put 3 gal of trick 101 unleaded in it then topped it off with 92.

Is the manual reset the reset I was doing with the StarScan or something else?

[ViperGeorge]

Be sure to check the wires at the PCM harness. Had this problem with my 06. Loose wire caused a crank sensor code. Check this link. http://engine-codes.com/p0315_dodge.html

[Getnlwr]

The Chrysler made sensor appears to be pretty cheap... like under $30 cheap from VPA or any other source

Where is it located on the motor...?


09viperacr -

If I can't get the OE sensor to read correctly I'll be trying looking at the harness and if I do get it to work I'll be trying the MOPAR controller again.

A chat with an engineer would be nice but I got the feeling that ain't gonna happen. I need to get the wiring diagnostics and figure out atleast what plug the crank sensor wires are in (minimum) or where they are in the plug (ideal) Those little pins are fragile. I did check all of them on both computers BEFORE installation the second time around, and the condition of them AFTER removal.

[Getnlwr]

Drove the car 22 miles to work then back to home. Check engine light did NOT turn on, and my OBD2 SCAN from the torque APP no longer shows the P0315 PENDING. Tomorrow, I'll be at the dealer hooked up to the STAR SCAN to see if it accepted the "Learned" status. If it has, I may swap out the race PCM one more time and see what happens. The Tech won't be at the dealer however he worked it out with the guys in the shop and just told them to hand me the STAR SCAN when I get there. Mark, you are right. . . I do have a good dealer. He might not know everything about the viper but he's willing to work with me. So far All I have had to pay was 1 hr shop labor for the initial install/program vin+mileage. No charges for anything else. I know I'll be paying for the crank sensor to get replaced, but I don't think it will be too bad. It'll give me an excuse to do the poly tran mount at the same time, and if i can help it maybe a set of stoptech rotors.

Thank you to everyone who has offered suggestions and input.

Andy

[Getnlwr]

Today, Back at the dealer. StarScan says: OEM pcm states it is "learned" and running perfect.

[MI Viper]

Today, Back at the dealer. StarScan says: OEM pcm states it is "learned" and running perfect.

Congrats, glad to hear that she is back to a stable running state. Are you going to try the Mopar PCM again?

[Getnlwr]

Okay... back at the delaer again last night with the mopar pcm in. Now states "learned" beats me what the differences were or what happened, but its purring like a kitten with the growl of a tiger now. Thank you for the help from everyone. I appreciate it. Also found an oil leak last night on the passenger side of the motor. Appears to be near the oil lines. From what I've heard its relatively common amd its now the next project needing resolution.

Again, thank you everyone!

Mark and Tom have been great help on the phone, and have a lot to offer the community.

[ACRucrazy]

Currently stuck at the same step 5.4 with a new PCM in my ACR. Using a Starscan. Starts idles like crap and throttle doesn't work.

Edit: that issue was the ETC relearn didn't work first few go arounds. Currently doing the Misfire TEC Learn.

[ACRucrazy]

So far so good on the new one