Next Gen Viper?

[w00tw00t]

So the viper is ending production, have there been any rumors about the next-gen viper? I'm sure its a few years away but I really hope Dodge will build one.

[Sub Driver]

No one knows.

[J TNT]

Very premature to speculate , but I would guess it will be a different car as we know it now .

[Coloviper]

Hard to see it come back. Who is left in Dodge that would support it? Took very senior execs to the CEO level to even get it going, let alone keep it going 25 years. That support is no longer there. On the positive side,Mir has been an awesome 25 years.

[w00tw00t]

ralph gilles?

[Steve M]

I know a guy on the inside...the next Gen Viper will be an AWD, mid-engine turbo 4-banger with flappy paddles for those that would rather go for a ride than a drive. Production will be limited to 100 per model year - black will be the standard color, with other colors being a $15k option. You can arrange for a factory pick-up, but you'll have to fly to China this time around instead of Detroit. Base price is expected to be under $60k.

My source wished to remain anonymous due to the sensitivity of the information, but wanted to assure everyone that Dodge is listening to you guys and wants to please absolutely everyone.

[mikesax]

YOU KNOW A GUY-----hehehehehehe!! Viper humor-my favorite kind!!

[J TNT]

I know a guy ,who know's a guy , who know's a guy...................lol ! :p

[nx91notch]

Twin Turbo 6cyl with a dual dry clutch automatic on a Fiat chassis.

So basically a watered down Ferrari 488.

[Dman]

My guy says the next viper is a zero emissions battery model, AWD, and four doors with a hatch type rear. Awesome.

Three years away at best if there is one. If there is, it'll be name only, otherwise, it'll certainly be a push button ride well below its cousins in power and perf, for Sergio's sake. The real Viper is the definition of a dying breed.

[serpent]

I'd love a small displacement v10 twin turbo.

[Camfab]

Dúshé
Chinese for Viper. Talk about a bad translation into spoken English.

[AZTVR]

Dúshé
Chinese for Viper. Talk about a bad translation into spoken English.

That would be great on a personalized license plate, lol !

[Chorps]

It will be a sticker package for the next generation Charger. :slap:

[Policy Limits]

It will be a spin off called serpent with a boosted v6 and paddle shifters. Next to the cup holder will be a tampon holder.

[ACRucrazy]

It will be a sticker package for the next generation Charger. :slap:

http://driveviper.com/forums/image.php?u=274&dateline=1470459679

[Chorps]

http://driveviper.com/forums/image.php?u=274&dateline=1470459679

That Viper really hugs the curves. =D

[SharpMan]

If it does return there are things you can count on;

- No more NA V10. Despite Audi's willingness to keep an NA V10 the fact that the rest of the performance world has moved on to turbocharging can't be ignored. As part of Fiat Dodge will have access to solid Turbocharged powertrain alternatives. On the face of it you might think Hellcat V8 but if they aren't working on a new Viper already then by the time it comes to market I don't think the supercharged option will be competitive.
- Double-clutch-gearbox at least as option. For both performance and fuel economy. I think they will want to keep the manual but who knows.
- With the mid-engined Corvette coming might Dodge consider a mid-engined replacement?
- It all sort of depends on the long-term vision for the Dodge brand. What is a Dodge halo car? Right now a Dodge is a blunt instrument (Viper, Charger, Challenger, RAM) and a lame piece of shit (Dart, Journey, Caravan). So what is Dodge in the future? Affordable performance? Performance with efficiency? More blunt instruments? And what best represents that as a halo car?

[ViperSmith]

That Viper really hugs the curves. =D

emily ratajkowski's curves worth hugging

[nuviper]

Lol, I'm from China and actually they call it "Kuishe" (the same tune):D

[Coloviper]

ralph gilles?

Unfortunately after the beatings, flack and lack of appreciation he took on the GEN V, I doubt he would be willing to stick his neck out further but would do an amazing design if they did. I wouldn't if I was him. I am surprised he hasn't given FCA the finger already.

[SharpMan]

Unfortunately after the beatings, flack and lack of appreciation he took on the GEN V, I doubt he would be willing to stick his neck out further but would do an amazing design if they did. I wouldn't if I was him. I am surprised he hasn't given FCA the finger already.

Good gig and only so many as lead designer. That said, he deserved the flack for the Gen V. It failed to look forward to where the market was going but rather was somewhat a retro / rehash of the Gen II GTS. The top brands reinvent themselves but do so in a leadership capacity rather than reactionary. LV, Ferrari, Patek, etc...if you want to play with the big dogs you have to learn to pee in the tall grass.

That said, I like the aesthetics of the Gen II GTS and the Gen V for the most part so no skin of my nose but it was a major business miscalculation though that may not have been his decision.

[ssmith71]

This is the 2020 Viper
19134

[7TH_SIGN]

I'd love a small displacement v10 twin turbo.

X2!!

[SharpMan]

I'd love a small displacement v10 twin turbo.

I'd love one too but there's no chance. The Viper only has a V10 because the basic engineering was done on another engine and recast in aluminum. There's no small displacement V10 Turbo in the Fiat Chrysler portfolio. Your only real options are V8TT and V6TT. Maybe a Supercharged V8 but I doubt it as it will be old, obsolete and too dirty by the time any new Viper comes out.

[BJG32]

I hope they don't make one because ill want to buy it and i cant stomach another round of FCA disappointment.

[VIPEREPIV]

I believe FCA won't shelve the Viper nameplate for any longer than a few years. However, It'll most likely come back through a stamped out form rather than hand built. In additon to this, it'll be without the V10, have side pipes with adequate insulation and have a dual clutch offering to go with a manual option. As long as they can pull off some new amazing Viper form to go with some new amazing street function that can generate more sales, I'll be good with that. (Sustained track performance would be a plus)

[Lightsaber]

Hard to see it come back. Who is left in Dodge that would support it? Took very senior execs to the CEO level to even get it going, let alone keep it going 25 years. That support is no longer there. On the positive side,Mir has been an awesome 25 years.

I think this is the most realistic forecast. FCA is on track to discontinue the Viper forever. Even if the Viper returns, it will be quite many years from now.

[Vipes]

I'd love a small displacement v10 twin turbo.

+1 I've always liked the LFA, TT would be nasty!

[Policy Limits]

I hope they don't make one because ill want to buy it and i cant stomach another round of FCA disappointment.

They needed to see this , and they're watching so well done.

[ViperJon]

Car manufacturers never let a well know famous moniker die forever, it'll be back in some form.
We all know Viper "final editions" are never final.

[Policy Limits]

It's bye bye V10 with side pipes though. And no I don't have any inside information Mr. Long Island attitude lol its just a prediction. Ha

[99RT10]

Good gig and only so many as lead designer. That said, he deserved the flack for the Gen V. It failed to look forward to where the market was going but rather was somewhat a retro / rehash of the Gen II GTS. The top brands reinvent themselves but do so in a leadership capacity rather than reactionary. LV, Ferrari, Patek, etc...if you want to play with the big dogs you have to learn to pee in the tall grass.

That said, I like the aesthetics of the Gen II GTS and the Gen V for the most part so no skin of my nose but it was a major business miscalculation though that may not have been his decision.


You have no clue what it took to develop and produce the Gen V. Ralph had a shoe string budget and worked within the parameters given to give us the Gen 5 and he had to fight just to keep the car alive. We are damn lucky to have it. You will never see the Viper again. V10? forgetaboutit......................... :(

[Policy Limits]

Yup. And viper people trash talked it from jump street. Then they had the balls to act surprised when it failed. Haha. Im gonna hang on to mine indefinitely. Over 3 years of ownership already.

[Stealth]

Disclosure: I own a 2014 Loaded GTS and love it and previously owned a Gen IV and also loved it. I definitely appreciate the refinements and improvements included in the Gen V.

That said, I 100% agree with SharpMan. In addition, as a consumer I do not want to hear about a shoestring budget or any other problems. My well-north of $100k purchase price is my price and I expect excellent, well-thought-out, proven designs and an overall excellent product. As much as I love my Viper and recognize that it will be the last of its kind in many ways even if there is a Gen VI, FCA should have gone a more Volado-esq. design; more forward and less retro. It took me a long time to warm up to the Gen V styling. What FCA does now to stand behind the Gen V on warranty matters and other items is very important for the sale of all of their existing and future products--sale of possible Vipers, RAMs, Challengers, Chargers, Jeeps, etc. and I suspect FCA understands this. Everyone learns from past experiences.

Thank you FCA for the Viper and fingers-crossed for a Gen VI!

[w00tw00t]

There is this..

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/01/13/dodge-viper-marchionne-future/

t was thought the door to the future for the Dodge Viper (http://www.autoblog.com/dodge/viper/news/) had closed last year, but Fiat (http://www.autoblog.com/fiat/)Chrysler (http://www.autoblog.com/chrysler/) CEO Sergio Marchionne (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/sergio+marchionne/) reopened it during his press conference at the 2016Detroit Auto Show (http://www.autoblog.com/detroit-auto-show/). Marchionne said the current Viper (http://www.autoblog.com/dodge/viper/) is the only FCA (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/fca/) product to use the ZD platform, which "doesn't make sense to me." Yet, "given the architectural development within the brand, there is a possibility that a new version of the Viper may surface."

Automobile reports that the company uses a versatile, rear- and all-wheel drive Giorgio platform for Alfa Romeo (http://www.autoblog.com/alfa+romeo/) and Dodge (http://www.autoblog.com/dodge/). It will support the Alfa Romeo (http://www.autoblog.com/alfa+romeo/) Giulia (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/alfa+romeo+giulia/) (Alfa Romeo's larger BMW 5 Series (http://www.autoblog.com/bmw/5+series/) competitor), the next-generation Dodge Challenger (http://www.autoblog.com/dodge/challenger/), Charger (http://www.autoblog.com/dodge/charger/), and rumored Barracuda (http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/26/barracuda-grand-cherokee-trackhawk-promised/), and it could support a new generation of Viper. We're probably talking about a different kind of Viper, though, with Automobile saying, "the current car's truck-based V-10 no doubt would be scrapped along with its platform." A Viper without a V10 doesn't seem like a Viper to us, but we'll wait to see what happens.

[XSnake]

will be no such thing

[Chorps]

Disclosure: I own a 2014 Loaded GTS and love it and previously owned a Gen IV and also love it. I definitely appreciate the refinements and improvements included in the Gen V.

That said, I 100% agree with SharpMan. In addition, as a consumer I do not want to hear about a shoestring budget or any other problems. My well-north of $100k purchase price is my price and I expect excellent, well-thought-out, proven designs and an overall excellent product. As much as I love my Viper and recognize that it will be the last of its kind in many ways even if there is a Gen VI, FCA should have gone a more Volado-esq. design; more forward and less retro. It took me a long time to warm up to the Gen V styling. What FCA does now to stand behind the Gen V on warranty matters and other items is very important for the sale of all of their existing and future products--sale of possible Vipers, RAMs, Challengers, Chargers, Jeeps, etc. and I suspect FCA understands this. Everyone learns from past experiences.

Thank you FCA for the Viper and fingers-crossed for a Gen VI!

The Viper has always been on a shoestring budget though. I think the development budget of the Viper was lower than that of the Neon's front bumper. The Viper has always has been a skunkworks kind of project and was an underdog on so many levels.

Those are the facts, and although $100k is a lot of money, when you compare what the Viper is to its competitors, you will see that you got a lot for your money. A Viper specific frame, a Viper specific engine, 750-1500 hand built units in a factory that is dedicated to Viper production, meets all NHTSA, DOT and EPA standards, with a resulting car that can stand up against cars that cost 10x the amount to develop and 3-5x the retail price. You bet there areas that could stand some vast improvement but in many ways you get what you pay for. Yes, there vehicles that are more polished and refined and perhaps even faster, but the Viper has a rawness and rareness and beauty all its own.

No other company was insane enough to try something like this, maybe no one will ever try again... there are very well reasoned arguments on why it is being cancelled. (FCA is putting all their (Chrysler) development money into trying to get their European operations going at the expense of everything else, RAM and Jeep and Dodge are being milked just like the MB days and need R&D cash badly, so Viper is doomed for certain) >:-(

I think the Gen V is a gorgeous car, but the shoestring budgets have meant a continuous refinement of a platform (frame) that should have been redesigned a long time ago. Mainly I think the interior dimensions are a mess, modern people are much bigger now, in height and girth, so having classic 1990s sports cars interior space when you need to accommodate fat cats and NFL sized people etc is a big problem (heh).

The transmission in the behind the motor is a major packaging problem, imo. No room for an Auto/PDK, because it already intrudes so much into the cabin space. If they had the money to put the transmission in the back like the Corvette (the horrors), it would have gone a long way to keeping the Viper competitive and I think sales would have improved, but the Viper never got the budget for it and never could.

[ACRucrazy]

I would like to see the Viper continue to be hand built. Continue to be low production. Even lower than it is now. More carbon fiber. More aluminum, less steel. Lighter weight. V10. Manual transmission standard.

I would like to see it become more exclusive, even at a higher price. It doesn't need nor should it compete with the Corvette.

It needs to return to halo car status. I wouldn't mind a $200,000+ Viper that continues to kick ass and take names that sells less than 500 a year. No apologies. No excuses. I hope FCA realizes how special of a car they have and do something with it..

[Lightsaber]

The Jalopnik's poll by Doug last year showed that the Viper has become the single most desirable car in the enthusiasts' community at the present, surpassing NSX and DeLorean:

http://imgur.com/rVGXp8K.jpg
(Source: http://jalopnik.com/here-are-the-cars-you-told-me-to-buy-1748501619)

Many manufacturers talk a lot about "halo cars," but many of those are really just overpriced cars that fail to sell. A car must first become desirable before it can be considered a halo car. Of course, when it comes to new product development, the audience and sales volume matter, but when Ralph Gilles has made something that not only rivals, but surpasses the NSX and DeLorean, it has eternally secured a place high up at the automotive pantheon. I'm sure the Viper's cult following will only grow stronger in the next few decades. As Ralph has achieved such with the Viper and for the FCA, the sales volume and everything else simply no longer matters.

[SharpMan]

You have no clue what it took to develop and produce the Gen V. Ralph had a shoe string budget and worked within the parameters given to give us the Gen 5 and he had to fight just to keep the car alive. We are damn lucky to have it. You will never see the Viper again. V10? forgetaboutit......................... :(

You wouldn't know this but I do, in fact, have a deep understanding of the challenges they faced. That said, the decision to design a car to pander to the established customer base who was dissatisfied with the Gen III and IV designs was a mistake. That said, the improvements are considerable and you are right that they should be commended for them.

I wouldn't be ordering one if I didn't like the car but it took the un-ignirable performance of the ACR-E to seal the deal for me.

[SharpMan]

The Jalopnik's poll by Doug last year showed that the Viper has become the single most desirable car in the enthusiasts' community at the present, surpassing NSX and DeLorean:

http://imgur.com/rVGXp8K.jpg
(Source: http://jalopnik.com/here-are-the-cars-you-told-me-to-buy-1748501619)

Many manufacturers talk a lot about "halo cars," but many of those are really just overpriced cars that fail to sell. A car must first become desirable before it can be considered a halo car. Of course, when it comes to new product development, the audience and sales volume matter, but when Ralph Gilles has made something that not only rivals, but surpasses the NSX and DeLorean, it has eternally secured a place high up at the automotive pantheon. I'm sure the Viper's cult following will only grow stronger in the next few decades. As Ralph has achieved such with the Viper and for the FCA, the sales volume and everything else simply no longer matters.

But only because his readers want to see him die or write about almost dying. ;-)

[serpent]

That list is BS, there is a huge following with GTRs and the fanboys associated with GTR. Said car should be in the top 3 cars. Delorean? LOL.

[sadil]

I think everyone should relax lol and be more positive. The Viper can be spun off into a great product but it's not the most important item on FCAs plate, wouldn't even make the top 20 honestly. They are trying to re-establish themselves and strengthen their core markets. Tens of thousands of peoples jobs depend on it. Even if the viper gets shelved for a couple years, that is a good thing. I would prefer them taking their time and releasing a good product. With hellcats going for 75k! now is a better time then ever for Dodge to have a 100-120k sportscar. Unfortunately it wont be what the purists want, rather something thats fits within the FCA vehicle lineup. But should we lose hope in FCA? Who is the head of FCA Design?...Ralph knows Viper, he wont let it be something that it shouldnt be. Either Viper will be back driven by its roots, or something else will take its place that is a totally new concept. Corvette is going mid engine, not sure what Ford is cooking up other than a GT500, but I am sure Dodge is gearing up to release some awesome performance cars. And as far the old school guys keeping Viper alive....to hell with that, the young guys in the auto industry right now have tons of fire in their soul. All we need is the right funding and space to work. I think FCA will provide that for Viper when the time is right.

[AllAboutViper]

Maybe they will do the same senario that they did between Gen 4 and 5? Who knows,

But unfortunately, i'm 100% sure that the next Viper (if), it won't be masculine, i mean it'll offer automatic, smaller engine, more models to be offered for different people, i mean they should do to survive in the market, although i like the Viper because it's the Viper that we know

[Policy Limits]

How about being satisfied that it's going put on top with ACR Extreme model breaking track records everywhere and just letting it die with dignity? Just sayin

[repiV]

I think everyone should relax lol and be more positive. The Viper can be spun off into a great product but it's not the most important item on FCAs plate, wouldn't even make the top 20 honestly. They are trying to re-establish themselves and strengthen their core markets. Tens of thousands of peoples jobs depend on it. Even if the viper gets shelved for a couple years, that is a good thing. I would prefer them taking their time and releasing a good product. With hellcats going for 75k! now is a better time then ever for Dodge to have a 100-120k sportscar. Unfortunately it wont be what the purists want, rather something thats fits within the FCA vehicle lineup. But should we lose hope in FCA? Who is the head of FCA Design?...Ralph knows Viper, he wont let it be something that it shouldnt be. Either Viper will be back driven by its roots, or something else will take its place that is a totally new concept. Corvette is going mid engine, not sure what Ford is cooking up other than a GT500, but I am sure Dodge is gearing up to release some awesome performance cars. And as far the old school guys keeping Viper alive....to hell with that, the young guys in the auto industry right now have tons of fire in their soul. All we need is the right funding and space to work. I think FCA will provide that for Viper when the time is right.

Maybe they'll even bring it back as a four door like they did the Charger!!

[mikesax]

To me The Viper is and has been one of the most stunningly unique vehicles ever produced! If you are going to bring it back someday bring it back BIG!! If not- than let it die and be remembered fondly as a unique piece of automotive art that had it's place and time in American Automotive History! Like the original Shelby Cobra- let it take on it's own legend over time! To DILUTE it for profit only- and to use it's name on something non exceptional would be a shame!

[Terminator02]

Well whatever happens after awhile and it does come back, it's not going to be made to satisfy most here. The gen V of today is still pretty close to the original. The original was so radical, proportions so blown out of proportion,and designed with such a niche purpose and it didn't end up being financially worth it after the initial luster wore off. Times have changed and its likely the viper would have some hybrid engine in say five years if it comes back, nice but conservative styling that won't step on Fiats flagships, auto dual clutch transmission. It's new purpose won't be for a niche but will appeal to a wide demographic; especially with a huge spacious interior, tons of foot room due to no need to heel toe shift, and yada yada :)

[ViperSmith]

The Gen VI, if it comes back, should be revolutionary not evolutionary. 25 years of evolution just isn't competitive in todays supercar market.

[mikesax]

The Gen VI, if it comes back, should be revolutionary not evolutionary. 25 years of evolution just isn't competitive in todays supercar market.

Well said !

[Bruce H.]

To me The Viper is and has been one of the most stunningly unique vehicles ever produced! If you are going to bring it back someday bring it back BIG!! If not- than let it die and be remembered fondly as a unique piece of automotive art that had it's place and time in American Automotive History! Like the original Shelby Cobra- let it take on it's own legend over time! To DILUTE it for profit only- and to use it's name on something non exceptional would be a shame!

Well said! I question whether Dodge could muster the commitment and resources to develop and field an all new exotic supercar with the necessary technology to appeal to tomorrow's buyers. Lightning struck once against all odds, so who knows. We can hope.

[SharpMan]

The Gen VI, if it comes back, should be revolutionary not evolutionary. 25 years of evolution just isn't competitive in todays supercar market.

Exactly.

[serpent]

Revolutionary would be a TT V10 setup. Cant be gigantic displacement anymore, but a TT setup would be more then sufficient.

[Snakebit10]

The Gen VI, if it comes back, should be revolutionary not evolutionary. 25 years of evolution just isn't competitive in todays supercar market.

Seems to work for Porsche but unfortunately it didnt for the Viper. I still love the Volado concept and hope that if there is a new Viper it will at least retain some of the shape of a Viper.

[Coloviper]

I think it did work for the Viper, just Dodge did not help it along. The shape of the GEN V was not the problem for sales. Pricing it to the moon originally, not having a convertible, not building customer ordered cars first and potentially a non-manual tranny were the problems. With those, I believe they would have hit their initial targets and would be a much different situation.

[504voodoo]

"if the viper comes back it needs to come back BIG" or "revolutionary" lol. what do you think the G5 ACR is? its sets records left and right. it beats cars that are 10x to 20x the price of it. are you expecting a new generation that can blast off and orbit the earth??? lol the car does not need more power, or turbos or superchargers. its already one of the fastest cars in the world. the car is in a strange price point, where a buyer can buy an AMG or GTR and have the comfort and reliablity as well as the speed. don't get me wrong i love the Gen5, but it is a super niche car with only a few buyers with the balls to buy it. not to mention that not many people are willing to spend over 100K on a Chrysler.

[cpinfdp]

Why not a mid-engine Viper? If the Corvette is going to go mid (yeah, I said it...), why not outdo them and kick the new GT down a couple of notches in the process. I mean, it's not like the concept hasn't been explored by Chrysler before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_ME_Four-Twelve

I'd even say give me a boosted small displacement V8 or V12 if you could manage it.

I'm not sure it would still be a Viper in the purest sense, but I don't see the next model (if it happens any time soon) to be a large displacement engine sitting out front anyway. Like everyone has mentioned, the V10 probably won't survive Sergio.

[VIPEREPIV]

There, there's your next Gen Viper!:D
http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr55/dave7zombie/VLF-Force-1-V10-1-630x251_zps9ydrd4jy.jpg

[cpinfdp]

There, there's your next Gen Viper!:D
http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr55/dave7zombie/VLF-Force-1-V10-1-630x251_zps9ydrd4jy.jpg

Bob Lutz's and Henrik Fisker's pipe dreams (despite this actually being a real car), don't count!

Although, I'm excited to see the first few finished up. It would be awesome to see it in person but I missed NAIAS this year. One of very few downsides in moving away from MI.

You guys remember this one?:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/21/barrett-jackson-2012-one-of-two-devon-gtx-supercars-reaches-bid/

[ek1]

Disclosure: I own a 2014 Loaded GTS and love it and previously owned a Gen IV and also loved it. I definitely appreciate the refinements and improvements included in the Gen V.

That said, I 100% agree with SharpMan. In addition, as a consumer I do not want to hear about a shoestring budget or any other problems. My well-north of $100k purchase price is my price and I expect excellent, well-thought-out, proven designs and an overall excellent product. As much as I love my Viper and recognize that it will be the last of its kind in many ways even if there is a Gen VI, FCA should have gone a more Volado-esq. design; more forward and less retro. It took me a long time to warm up to the Gen V styling. What FCA does now to stand behind the Gen V on warranty matters and other items is very important for the sale of all of their existing and future products--sale of possible Vipers, RAMs, Challengers, Chargers, Jeeps, etc. and I suspect FCA understands this. Everyone learns from past experiences.

Thank you FCA for the Viper and fingers-crossed for a Gen VI!

So what kind of styling do you think FCA should have done on a Gen 5?

[ek1]

Why not a mid-engine Viper? If the Corvette is going to go mid (yeah, I said it...), why not outdo them and kick the new GT down a couple of notches in the process. I mean, it's not like the concept hasn't been explored by Chrysler before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_ME_Four-Twelve

I'd even say give me a boosted small displacement V8 or V12 if you could manage it.

I'm not sure it would still be a Viper in the purest sense, but I don't see the next model (if it happens any time soon) to be a large displacement engine sitting out front anyway. Like everyone has mentioned, the V10 probably won't survive Sergio.

I dont think FCA will ever make another car that does not share a platform with another model. In the end of the day, they are a business (not a very thriving one, too) and they have to make money on every single product they sell. In this day and age car makers can't really make money on single-car platforms unless the product price is around $250K and above. Therefore, if they do decide to make a new Viper, it will not be a real Viper anymore. It won't have a V10 or a side exhaust or the looks or a manual transmission. I think it may share a platform with an Alpha Romeo Giulia. It already has a pretty good base - a TT V6 with 505hp & 443 lb/ft, relatively light weight, Carbon ceramic brakes, lots of carbon fiber and Alcantara bits, etc.

[Hathoway]

May end up some bastardized version of what it once was. Somewhere between BMW's i8 and Ford's new GT. Who knows...Glad I got a gen 2 recently.

[Clutch2014]

I would like to see the Viper continue to be hand built. Continue to be low production. Even lower than it is now. More carbon fiber. More aluminum, less steel. Lighter weight. V10. Manual transmission standard.

I would like to see it become more exclusive, even at a higher price. It doesn't need nor should it compete with the Corvette.

It needs to return to halo car status. I wouldn't mind a $200,000+ Viper that continues to kick ass and take names that sells less than 500 a year. No apologies. No excuses. I hope FCA realizes how special of a car they have and do something with it..

So, you want them to repeat all of the problems they had with the Gen V, but instead of aiming for Porsche, go for Ferrari's armored throat instead?

Smart. Good plan. I'm sure sales will be awesome after Dodge cuts production from 500 to "Hey, Pagani, I want another Zonda, and here's $2,000,000."

[ACRucrazy]

So, you want them to repeat all of the problems they had with the Gen V, but instead of aiming for Porsche, go for Ferrari's armored throat instead?

Smart. Good plan. I'm sure sales will be awesome after Dodge cuts production from 500 to "Hey, Pagani, I want another Zonda, and here's $2,000,000."


What the hell are you talking about?

[Clutch2014]

May end up some bastardized version of what it once was. Somewhere between BMW's i8 and Ford's new GT. Who knows...Glad I got a gen 2 recently.

I don't believe "bastardized" and the new GT belong in the same hemisphere, let alone the same paragraph.

Anyway, as far as a Gen VI goes, not only do I think that they should go for one, but they should do it as both an evolution and a revolution. Make it the budget world-beater it has been since Gen 2, but make it a car that embraces new tech as much as it does old. Enough of this talk about exclusivity, too. You want to show off, go buy a LaFerrari and brag about it the next time Barrett-Jackson rolls into town.

Should it be mid-engine? No. If anything could "diminish" this car's name, that would probably do it. If I wanted a Ferrari, I'd buy a Ferrari. I want a car that can beat Ferraris...for less than a Ferrari.

Should it be RWD? Yes.

Should it be a V-10? Yes. But like it or not, the 8.4-liter monster isn't as long for this world as the purists want it to be. Audi, Lamborghini, Lexus, and BMW have all made smaller-displacement 10-cylinders work in their cars. There's no reason, aside from laziness, that Dodge can't do the same. Not should it be the only engine option, either; incorporate the Hemi and it's Hellcat variant into the line.

Should it have a manual transmission? Yes. Again, though, that shouldn't be the only option. Go for a flappy-paddle semi-auto gearbox - you'll likely get more butts in seats that way.

Speaking of that...should it be more accessible? Yes...relatively speaking. No, it doesn't have to be a Corvette, and I don't want it to be a Corvette. But if the car is to survive, more people have to drive and like it. It's 2016. Doing it the "purist" way doesn't work on it's own anymore.

And lastly...should they market it correctly? YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!

[Clutch2014]

What the hell are you talking about?

You want them to price the car way the hell out of it's league, aim for people who were never going to buy the car in the first place, and watch as they clog up showroom floors and factory lots.

[cpinfdp]

I dont think FCA will ever make another car that does not share a platform with another model. In the end of the day, they are a business (not a very thriving one, too) and they have to make money on every single product they sell. In this day and age car makers can't really make money on single-car platforms unless the product price is around $250K and above. Therefore, if they do decide to make a new Viper, it will not be a real Viper anymore. It won't have a V10 or a side exhaust or the looks or a manual transmission. I think it may share a platform with an Alpha Romeo Giulia. It already has a pretty good base - a TT V6 with 505hp & 443 lb/ft, relatively light weight, Carbon ceramic brakes, lots of carbon fiber and Alcantara bits, etc.

I was going to bring up the Giulia, and the comparison with an EB 3.5L in the GT is there, but boy would it be sad to go from our 8.4 L V10 to a 2.9L TT V6. Maybe a smaller TT V8 developed with Ferrari. Who knows, but it should still be interesting to see what they come up with.

I don't hate on the EcoBoost, I have one in my Flex :).

[ACRucrazy]

You want them to price the car way the hell out of it's league, aim for people who were never going to buy the car in the first place, and watch as they clog up showroom floors and factory lots.

No. I want them to make the car desirable enough and exclusive enough they won't sit on lots.
Remember the GT over a decade ago. They couldn't get rid of them. They were discounted on the showroom floor.

Recall the new GT? They had over 6000 applications for a 500 production.

There is no reason the next Viper can't be like that. The Viper should not complete with the Corvette or anything near that price. It's an exclusive hand built halo. Dodge just needs to treat it as such and market it as such.

Period.

[Clutch2014]

No. I want them to make the car desirable enough and exclusive enough they won't sit on lots.
Remember the GT over a decade ago. They couldn't get rid of them. They were discounted on the showroom floor.

Recall the new GT? They had over 6000 applications for a 500 production.

There is no reason the next Viper can't be like that. The Viper should not complete with the Corvette or anything near that price. It's an exclusive hand built halo. Dodge just needs to treat it as such and market it as such.

Period.

1) How much does a Ford GT cost?

2) Are you, at all, aware of what exactly could drive 6000 people to apply for an initial run of 500 Fords? At all? Should I provide a hint?

I love the Viper so very much, but it has never had the kind of prestige Ford GTs do. Never. GM doesn't even have that kind of prestige.

[v10enomous]

When was the last time Chrysler or Dodge introduced a fresh sheet design of any kind of car not including SUV's and trucks and not a variation of some other existing platform ?

[ACRucrazy]

1) How much does a Ford GT cost?

2) Are you, at all, aware of what exactly could drive 6000 people to apply for an initial run of 500 Fords? At all? Should I provide a hint?

I love the Viper so very much, but it has never had the kind of prestige Ford GTs do. Never. GM doesn't even have that kind of prestige.

Did you ever get that Gen V you wanted, or are you still a dreamer?

[jns681186]

If it isn't going to be NA V10, then don't bring it back.

[mikesax]

"if the viper comes back it needs to come back BIG" or "revolutionary" lol. what do you think the G5 ACR is? its sets records left and right. it beats cars that are 10x to 20x the price of it. are you expecting a new generation that can blast off and orbit the earth??? lol the car does not need more power, or turbos or superchargers. its already one of the fastest cars in the world. the car is in a strange price point, where a buyer can buy an AMG or GTR and have the comfort and reliablity as well as the speed. don't get me wrong i love the Gen5, but it is a super niche car with only a few buyers with the balls to buy it. not to mention that not many people are willing to spend over 100K on a Chrysler.

I'm on my 4 th Gen V-I love it just the way it is!! We are answering "if and when it does come back"!!

[Clutch2014]

Did you ever get that Gen V you wanted, or are you still a dreamer?

What does that have to do with the topic at hand? Don't run that "skin in the game" smug crap past me to dodge the underlying questions. Answer them.

Does the Viper have the same kind of prestige that the Ford GT does? And how are you going to convince people to spend 200,000+ on a Dodge...when they wouldn't even spend 130,000 the last time?

[ACRucrazy]

What does that have to do with the topic at hand? Don't run that "skin in the game" smug crap past me to dodge the underlying questions. Answer them.

Does the Viper have the same kind of prestige that the Ford GT does? And how are you going to convince people to spend 200,000+ on a Dodge...when they wouldn't even spend 130,000 the last time?

1. It doesn't matter. The Ford GTs originally didn't sell. And it wasn't the heritage that caused the appreciation. No one cares about it's heritage. It's an exclusive car that was recently made MORE exclusive and revolutionary. That's why it's sold out.

2. You will convince people to spend $200K on a Viper by making it revolutionary. Not returning to a 10 year old frame and old previous Gen motor and transmission. Sure the Gen V is lighter, sure they used more carbon fiber. Sure the interior is sexy. But just because you rehashed the previous 3 generations of a Viper into a better Viper, and allowed retarded dealers to order whatever they want. All while tossing a $20K-$30K adjustments to the sticker while not marketing for damn car and expecting it to sell just because of its name.

It wouldn't be hard for people to spend $200K on a Viper. Just don't expect them to spend $200K on a Viper with a steel frame, brakes that were used on a 2003 Viper and previously underrated engine that's now rated accurately while allowing many of the dealer network to order whatever they want checking whatever option box they want.

[ViperSmith]

Dodges biggest issue is their dealer network.

I wouldn't be dropping my $200,000 Viper off to be serviced next to Darts and sold buy guys whose last job was selling mattresses.

[mikesax]

1. It doesn't matter. The Ford GTs originally didn't sell. And it wasn't the heritage that caused the appreciation. No one cares about it's heritage. It's an exclusive car that was recently made MORE exclusive and revolutionary. That's why it's sold out.

2. You will convince people to spend $200K on a Viper by making it revolutionary. Not returning to a 10 year old frame and old previous Gen motor and transmission. Sure the Gen V is lighter, sure they used more carbon fiber. Sure the interior is sexy. But just because you rehashed the previous 3 generations of a Viper into a better Viper, and allowed retarded dealers to order whatever they want. All while tossing a $20K-$30K adjustments to the sticker while not marketing for damn car and expecting it to sell just because of its name.

It wouldn't be hard for people to spend $200K on a Viper. Just don't expect them to spend $200K on a Viper with a steel frame, brakes that were used on a 2003 Viper and previously underrated engine that's now rated accurately while allowing many of the dealer network to order whatever they want checking whatever option box they want.

Good points !! Ford went "above and beyond" with the GT- I don't see FCA doing that unfortunately- but if they did-yes- a REVOLUTIONARY Voladoesque design with twin turbo's north of $250,000 - limited units sold through a handful of preselected dealers showcasing the ULTIMATE in automotive technology!! Sorry- I DOZED off- did I mutter something "stupid" again?!

[Snakebit10]

Since Chevy is going mid-engined with the next Vette and Ford already has a killer mid-engine car in the new FGT hopefully FCA will let Dodge create the next Viper with some cues from this design exercise:

http://autovisie.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/SRT-Tomahawk-Officieel-001.jpg

[Clutch2014]

Since Chevy is going mid-engined with the next Vette and Ford already has a killer mid-engine car in the new FGT hopefully FCA will let Dodge create the next Viper with some cues from this design exercise:

http://autovisie.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/SRT-Tomahawk-Officieel-001.jpg

I don't agree with this. It smells too much like keeping up with the Joneses - the same Joneses the Viper has been smacking around in magazine tests for a while now.

The Viper has always been the car that put the more expensive show-offs to shame, no questions asked. Forsaking all of that in favor of me-too hypercar exclusivity would desecrate the car far more than anything people have complained about for ages.

On top of that, no one would bite anyway.

[v10enomous]

Build something that looks like this for $100k.

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/njvipermail/vulcanam_zps9mmn4l8m.jpg (http://s375.photobucket.com/user/njvipermail/media/vulcanam_zps9mmn4l8m.jpg.html)

[ACRucrazy]

Build something that looks like this for $100k.

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/njvipermail/vulcanam_zps9mmn4l8m.jpg (http://s375.photobucket.com/user/njvipermail/media/vulcanam_zps9mmn4l8m.jpg.html)

Ok, I'll admit it, I had to google "Vulcan" in link.. That's badass!

3 mill. uff.... da..

http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/listing/2016/aston--martin/vulcan/1412259

[ACR Steve]

Mid engine car looks sickkkkkk I am all for it
http://autovisie.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/SRT-Tomahawk-Officieel-001.jpg

[VENOM V]

Build something that looks like this for $100k.

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/njvipermail/vulcanam_zps9mmn4l8m.jpg (http://s375.photobucket.com/user/njvipermail/media/vulcanam_zps9mmn4l8m.jpg.html)

Yep, and outperforms everything under $1M like the ACR today. That's the winning formula.

[mjorgensen]

Honestly don't think there are any current plans that include a replacement or revival of the Vipers place at FCA...

[v10enomous]

Honestly don't think there are any current plans that include a replacement or revival of the Vipers place at FCA...

I guess we better get em while we still can;)

[adprokid]

Dodge won't say that Gen 6 is coming while they are still selling Gen5.

[ACR08]

The Viper was designed to be a modern day version of the AC Cobra and then the Daytona Coupe. I think they did a damn good job. I think people forget this and I don't understand why people want it to be like a Vette or a Lamborghini. Sure it's a niche car, but that is what it's suppose to be. It was never meant to be a car that was built for all people with huge sales. It's suppose to be a race car you can drive on the street and that is what it is and that's why I love it. It's loud, it's hot, it's a tight fit, and it's awesome. It's a car you will never get tied of because you actually drive it and have to develope skills to drive it. Sure it's not for everyone, but it sure is for me.

I think people complain way too much about the Viper. I wonder why some people even bought it in the first place. My guess is they really didn't understand where the car comes from and what it's suppose to be.

I've alwayed loved the look of the Gen 2 and think the Gen 5 is great. With the Viper going away, I finally decided to pull the trigger on a Gen 5 ACR. I can't believe Dodge will let me custom build one. That's amazing. I can't wait but it's going to be hard getting rid of my Gen 4 ACR. I love the fact there is no traction control on it. I know it's up to me to drive the car right.

The Viper might come back. It has before. However, part of me thinks if you change too much, what's the point. Maybe instead it's time for a new halo car. The Tomahawk, like in Grand Terismo. Mid engine, active aero, and what the hell give it a DTC. Sounds awesome, but it won't be a Viper and that's ok. Keep it around 100k and I'll buy one, but I'll be keeping my Viper.

Until then, I'll be driving the crap out of my Viper and try to live up to its potential because that is what a Viper is all about.

[Coloviper]

Me thinks the Fat Lady will sing on New Years Eve next year. There is just no support for it internally anymore and very low support for it externally in sales. Despite the passion, the praise and the ones who are ponying up the cash for a new one, it is all she wrote boys and girls. All good things must come to an end. 25 years is something to be celebrated not mourned. FCA does this with their racing teams to. Win then shut it down. This is nothing new.

Best thing that could happen is if a future FCA car is built for this particular performance segment and it vastly changes from what a Viper is and should be, that they call it something else. Just let it die with dignity and on top. If they name a future car something else, those that want it will by it, even if it is named "Flipper" and go "Eh, Eh, Eh" down the road from it's I4TT motor.

Let the Viper stand for what it truly is and was. I just wish Sergio and FCA would announce it already that this is it. Done! Caput! That would help establish some high value resale numbers for the remaining 17's and help the Viper start to appreciate again. Everyone wants what they can not longer have.

BTW the Ford GTs revised in 2003 were sitting on lots rotting by the end of the model run. It was not until years later that they started to jump like they have now. Those ones ponying up stupid money for the new ones are those with a lot of money that for the most part, think they can do the same thing twice. There are those people that love the motor in the back and those that love the motor in the front with a long sexy hood. I am the later. Could care less about a mid-engine vehicle. Not for me.

[mikesax]

The Viper was designed to be a modern day version of the AC Cobra and then the Daytona Coupe. I think they did a damn good job. I think people forget this and I don't understand why people want it to be like a Vette or a Lamborghini. Sure it's a niche car, but that is what it's suppose to be. It was never meant to be a car that was built for all people with huge sales. It's suppose to be a race car you can drive on the street and that is what it is and that's why I love it. It's loud, it's hot, it's a tight fit, and it's awesome. It's a car you will never get tied of because you actually drive it and have to develope skills to drive it. Sure it's not for everyone, but it sure is for me.

I think people complain way too much about the Viper. I wonder why some people even bought it in the first place. My guess is they really didn't understand where the car comes from and what it's suppose to be.

I've alwayed loved the look of the Gen 2 and think the Gen 5 is great. With the Viper going away, I finally decided to pull the trigger on a Gen 5 ACR. I can't believe Dodge will let me custom build one. That's amazing. I can't wait but it's going to be hard getting rid of my Gen 4 ACR. I love the fact there is no traction control on it. I know it's up to me to drive the car right.

The Viper might come back. It has before. However, part of me thinks if you change too much, what's the point. Maybe instead it's time for a new halo car. The Tomahawk, like in Grand Terismo. Mid engine, active aero, and what the hell give it a DTC. Sounds awesome, but it won't be a Viper and that's ok. Keep it around 100k and I'll buy one, but I'll be keeping my Viper.

Until then, I'll be driving the crap out of my Viper and try to live up to its potential because that is what a Viper is all about.

Well put ACR08!!

[Stealth]

The Viper was designed to be a modern day version of the AC Cobra and then the Daytona Coupe. I think they did a damn good job. I think people forget this and I don't understand why people want it to be like a Vette or a Lamborghini. Sure it's a niche car, but that is what it's suppose to be. It was never meant to be a car that was built for all people with huge sales. It's suppose to be a race car you can drive on the street and that is what it is and that's why I love it. It's loud, it's hot, it's a tight fit, and it's awesome. It's a car you will never get tied of because you actually drive it and have to develope skills to drive it. Sure it's not for everyone, but it sure is for me.

I think people complain way too much about the Viper. I wonder why some people even bought it in the first place. My guess is they really didn't understand where the car comes from and what it's suppose to be.

I've alwayed loved the look of the Gen 2 and think the Gen 5 is great. With the Viper going away, I finally decided to pull the trigger on a Gen 5 ACR. I can't believe Dodge will let me custom build one. That's amazing. I can't wait but it's going to be hard getting rid of my Gen 4 ACR. I love the fact there is no traction control on it. I know it's up to me to drive the car right.

The Viper might come back. It has before. However, part of me thinks if you change too much, what's the point. Maybe instead it's time for a new halo car. The Tomahawk, like in Grand Terismo. Mid engine, active aero, and what the hell give it a DTC. Sounds awesome, but it won't be a Viper and that's ok. Keep it around 100k and I'll buy one, but I'll be keeping my Viper.

Until then, I'll be driving the crap out of my Viper and try to live up to its potential because that is what a Viper is all about.


This!

[SharpMan]

Build something that looks like this for $100k.

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/njvipermail/vulcanam_zps9mmn4l8m.jpg (http://s375.photobucket.com/user/njvipermail/media/vulcanam_zps9mmn4l8m.jpg.html)

They did ;-)

[ACR08]

They did ;-)

Ha! They really did.

[Canadian venom]

They did ;-)


IMO they did a better job...

[Snakebit10]

Before you guys dismiss a mid-engined Viper remember that they did have sketches and the idea of making it traditional mid-engined at the beginning of the snakes life if memory serves. I agree with ACR08 on the Vipers ethos. I too would like to see it stay with a bespoke chassis, engine etc but unfortunately FCA doesn't think so. Its no longer a halo car or Sergio would not have said what he did.

The Tomahawk has a Viperness to it imho. Very snakelike and it could be used as a clean sheet G6 design, mid-engined front or rear. The Vulcun looks G5-ish so thats already been done and eclipsed by the G5 ACR for comparative pennies. The current Viper is mid-engined but front mid-ship and not the traditional rear mid-engined design. So its not a stretch for it to be rear mid-ship a la Tomahawk. I just want to snake to stick around but not stray completely away from the Vipers dna. Small displacement V10 TT, manual standard (DCT optional) Viperish looks and handling. Would love to see them design an active aero snake. Current ownership does not care for the Vipers ethos so it has to evolve or die.

[ACR08]

Snakebite, I like your post. I agree the Tamahawk has a lot of Viper in it. Just look at the in take on the hood. I agree a small displacement V10 TT would be cool. The more I think about it give me a manual with active aero. I don't need the car shifting for me, but I do need it to add aero when I need it and take it away for me when I don't.

If the current ACR-E makes it to the ring, the only thing that might keep it from betting other super cars is its aero on the back straight. The funny part is the aero is its greatest strength. If it had active aero, there would be no doubt. Viper all the way.

Also, good point about the Viper being a front mounted mid engine car. This is something people forget to give it credit for; 50/50 weight distribution is awesome and take work to do.

[Snakebit10]

Yeah the fixed aero of the G5 ACR would hamper it on the long back straight of the Ring. Active aero is the cure but it will take a revolutionary approach to the Vipers DNA to accomplish that imho. That's why I like Dodges take with the Tomahawk concept. That thing looks sufficiently Viperish that it could be the next gen Viper albeit obviously toned down a bit for production. If FCA would finally give the Viper a real budget for the first time in its existence this could be done. Just my pipe dream at this point though as it looks like the Snake really will be dead.

[2snakes]

I hope if it comes back GEN 6 will be from the Chrysler concept ME412 it was KILLER

[Coloviper]

Yeah the fixed aero of the G5 ACR would hamper it on the long back straight of the Ring. Active aero is the cure but it will take a revolutionary approach to the Vipers DNA to accomplish that imho. That's why I like Dodges take with the Tomahawk concept. That thing looks sufficiently Viperish that it could be the next gen Viper albeit obviously toned down a bit for production. If FCA would finally give the Viper a real budget for the first time in its existence this could be done. Just my pipe dream at this point though as it looks like the Snake really will be dead.

"next gen Viper albeit obviously toned down a bit for production" This is the problem with Viper going forth if it does under FCA. Toned down and Viper NEVER belong in the same sentence. Over the top and Viper, that is acceptable.

[Snakebit10]

"next gen Viper albeit obviously toned down a bit for production" This is the problem with Viper going forth if it does under FCA. Toned down and Viper NEVER belong in the same sentence. Over the top and Viper, that is acceptable.

The reason I said toned down was due to what the car was tuned to do in the video game by SRT/Polyphony Digital. It had otherworldly acceleration and handling. I played it on PS3 a while back. No way they can produce a car like that for anywhere near 200k or under so it has to be toned down for crash testing, emissions etc, demographic etc. Or they can go for broke like Ford with the GT but I don't think Sergio ever give the Viper program a real budget.

I love the styling on the Tomahawk because it is Viperish and if they can bring it to the public the way it looks in that render that would be GREAT. Or the Volado concept which is still my favorite. The original Viper looked almost exactly like the concept shown so that would be in keeping with its history. One can only hope.

[SharpMan]

Before you guys dismiss a mid-engined Viper remember that they did have sketches and the idea of making it traditional mid-engined at the beginning of the snakes life if memory serves. I agree with ACR08 on the Vipers ethos. I too would like to see it stay with a bespoke chassis, engine etc but unfortunately FCA doesn't think so. Its no longer a halo car or Sergio would not have said what he did.

The Tomahawk has a Viperness to it imho. Very snakelike and it could be used as a clean sheet G6 design, mid-engined front or rear. The Vulcun looks G5-ish so thats already been done and eclipsed by the G5 ACR for comparative pennies. The current Viper is mid-engined but front mid-ship and not the traditional rear mid-engined design. So its not a stretch for it to be rear mid-ship a la Tomahawk. I just want to snake to stick around but not stray completely away from the Vipers dna. Small displacement V10 TT, manual standard (DCT optional) Viperish looks and handling. Would love to see them design an active aero snake. Current ownership does not care for the Vipers ethos so it has to evolve or die.

I think that if they bring it back they will have to consider all options. Yes Viper started as a re-imagined Cobra...I don't think the market is there anymore. It's a technology race now and if you want to sell numbers you need the performance but it has to be derived from high-tech not just brute force. ACR-E is a bit of an exception but it does prove, I think, that people will may $150K+ for a Dodge if it has the performance. Maybe they will sell 600 this year. If they want to sell 1200 again they need the technology IMHO as there are only so many diehard nuts...the rest of the market wants "the latest".


Yeah the fixed aero of the G5 ACR would hamper it on the long back straight of the Ring. Active aero is the cure but it will take a revolutionary approach to the Vipers DNA to accomplish that imho. That's why I like Dodges take with the Tomahawk concept. That thing looks sufficiently Viperish that it could be the next gen Viper albeit obviously toned down a bit for production. If FCA would finally give the Viper a real budget for the first time in its existence this could be done. Just my pipe dream at this point though as it looks like the Snake really will be dead.

I hope someone is working on an aftermarket active kit for the ACR-E wing. Would be cool to just replace the uprights and keep the gorgeous wing. Check this out:

http://aeromotions.com/products/porsche/s1-dynamic-porsche-997-turbo-wing/

[Vprbite]

The Viper has always been on a shoestring budget though. I think the development budget of the Viper was lower than that of the Neon's front bumper. The Viper has always has been a skunkworks kind of project and was an underdog on so many levels.

Those are the facts, and although $100k is a lot of money, when you compare what the Viper is to its competitors, you will see that you got a lot for your money. A Viper specific frame, a Viper specific engine, 750-1500 hand built units in a factory that is dedicated to Viper production, meets all NHTSA, DOT and EPA standards, with a resulting car that can stand up against cars that cost 10x the amount to develop and 3-5x the retail price. You bet there areas that could stand some vast improvement but in many ways you get what you pay for. Yes, there vehicles that are more polished and refined and perhaps even faster, but the Viper has a rawness and rareness and beauty all its own.

No other company was insane enough to try something like this, maybe no one will ever try again... there are very well reasoned arguments on why it is being cancelled. (FCA is putting all their (Chrysler) development money into trying to get their European operations going at the expense of everything else, RAM and Jeep and Dodge are being milked just like the MB days and need R&D cash badly, so Viper is doomed for certain) >:-(

I think the Gen V is a gorgeous car, but the shoestring budgets have meant a continuous refinement of a platform (frame) that should have been redesigned a long time ago. Mainly I think the interior dimensions are a mess, modern people are much bigger now, in height and girth, so having classic 1990s sports cars interior space when you need to accommodate fat cats and NFL sized people etc is a big problem (heh).

The transmission in the behind the motor is a major packaging problem, imo. No room for an Auto/PDK, because it already intrudes so much into the cabin space. If they had the money to put the transmission in the back like the Corvette (the horrors), it would have gone a long way to keeping the Viper competitive and I think sales would have improved, but the Viper never got the budget for it and never could.

I highly agree and have heard from others who are respected in the Viper community believe that if they could have stretched/redesigned the frame slightly and bought an extra 2" of cabin room it would have had more appeal to taller buyers and athletes, etc who love the Wild nature and reputation of the car but just don't fit. Obviously, it's not as easy as just making the frame longer and calling it a day. But they think it would have helped a lot.

[Vprbite]

I hope someone is working on an aftermarket active kit for the ACR-E wing. Would be cool to just replace the uprights and keep the gorgeous wing. Check this out:

http://aeromotions.com/products/porsche/s1-dynamic-porsche-997-turbo-wing/

Whoa! That is pretty cool and shockingly affordable. I would have expected 3x the price but as computer modeling gets cheaper and cheaper, more and more of this sort of stuff is easier. Not easy, but a hell of a lot easier than it was in 2002. Thanks for sharing.

[v10viperbox]

IMO its not coming back period. The Viper is dead as a production car in its current incarnation. They may bring the nameplate back with say with the new Hellcat TT motor that they are cooking up and flippy paddles but well that's not a "Viper" to me.

All you have to do is look at the 4C to see how out of touch they are. Lets build a 70K Alfa with a carbon chassis that weighs the same as a 24K Miata and the automatic out of a Dart with no upgrades. There is nobody at headquarters with the guts to build a new Viper correctly. Honestly I am amazed they got the Gen V out the door in as good of shape as they did.

FYI not going to stop me from getting a Gen V once I have garage space to put next to my Gen IV

[Snakebit10]

I agree Sharp. I always loved that the Viper on a shoestring budget could outright run with or embarrass big dollar sports/exotic cars etc. That certainly was part of its charm that bit many and even some in the automotive press in its early days. However, I think that ship has sailed when you look at the sales figures for the best ever version of the Snakes Ethos in the G5. The people that appreciated the back to basics, Cobra dna are up in years and the generations after could care less about its history. They want tech, tech and more tech even as the Viper has beaten the heck out of their techno-masterpieces of its day with its comparative lower tech. That is the demographic that they have to cater to if they want to move x amount of units imho. Which most likely means the Viper as we know it will never see the light of day. End of an historic era both street and racing. But maybe it can come back like the FGT did not even resembling the car it came from and still be a success. Change sucks but it is inevitable.

That link to the aeromotions wing is very interesting. Would love to see if that can be adapted to the ACR with keeping the gorgeous ACR wing though as you said. I wonder how the car would react to the changing aero since it was designed with the aero fixed though. I'm not an aerodynamicist so what do I know.

[Vprbite]

I get accused of being long winded so I'll try to be brief. I'll fail, but I'll try.

One is that I believe part of the appeal of the Viper was that it was attainable. Just alightly out of reach for many people but with some budgeting and saving, a normal guy could make one happen. Either after his kids are grown or he retires or he doesn't buy a new truck every year and has a few good years at work. But truthfully, for a great many of us, an aventador is just never gonna happen. Especially when you factor in maintenence. So the viper kicking ass and doing it for 100g was a large part of its appeal, IMO. Combined with its DGAF attitude. I am not sure that strategy is still feasible in the market today.

2nd, the Viper was a halo car and not a money making car, sure. But it was also a point of pride with everyone at Dodge that they worked for the company that made the Viper. Even the guy in charge of designing doors for mini vans had pride in the Viper and that was part of the company pathos. Now, Dodge isn't really dodge anymore. And higher ups don't look at it like their pride and joy that must be saved at all costs. They look at it from dollars and cents and frame sharing, etc. So from that perspective, why make it a point to keep it around? Fiat has their flagship car. (I also believe the Italians didn't like their show pony dragged around by the American front engine, 6k rpm car but I'm told to put in my foil hat when I say that). Ralph fought hard to make this car happen, but the company didn't back him up on marketing one tiny bit. Factor that in, and the Viper is no longer a piece of the company's heart, but now is a name that can be bought/sold/traded/sliced up and turned into whatever makes a few more pennies than it costs to produce, even if it no longer appeals to purists or performance types.

Am I open to good paddles or sequential? Sure. Getting rid of the 10? Perhaps a necessity. But I think one hell of a new Viper could be produced by the right people with the right budget, and as a halo car. Will that happen? I doubt it. Again, JMO. I hope I'm wrong.

P.S. I agree the 4c makes zero sense to me. Especially for the money.

[SSGNRDZ_28]

That link to the aeromotions wing is very interesting. Would love to see if that can be adapted to the ACR with keeping the gorgeous ACR wing though as you said. I wonder how the car would react to the changing aero since it was designed with the aero fixed though. I'm not an aerodynamicist so what do I know.

Simply laying the wing back on the straights and perhaps increasing the angle under braking would be a benefit. Kind of a dangerous thing to be playing with though if you get it wrong or it malfunctions (mechanically, electrically, software, etc.). High speed turns would be a challenge to dial in I would think and complicate the functionality. Extensive testing would be key and the wing would need to be fairly quick to adjust to inputs as needed.

[v10viperbox]

Simply laying the wing back on the straights and perhaps increasing the angle under braking would be a benefit. Kind of a dangerous thing to be playing with though if you get it wrong or it malfunctions (mechanically, electrically, software, etc.). High speed turns would be a challenge to dial in I would think and complicate the functionality. Extensive testing would be key and the wing would need to be fairly quick to adjust to inputs as needed.

High speed turns would be a serious issue. That is where the air hardest to model and getting it to work on even say two or three different body shapes would be seriously impressive.

[SharpMan]

All you have to do is look at the 4C to see how out of touch they are. Lets build a 70K Alfa with a carbon chassis that weighs the same as a 24K Miata and the automatic out of a Dart with no upgrades.

I have to say though...I love the way it looks and I loved driving it. At 6'5" it's way too small for me but I was surprised by just how solid and well made it felt. It's like a super fast, mid-engined Mini Cooper. Absolute hooliganism!


I agree Sharp. I always loved that the Viper on a shoestring budget could outright run with or embarrass big dollar sports/exotic cars etc. That certainly was part of its charm that bit many and even some in the automotive press in its early days. However, I think that ship has sailed when you look at the sales figures for the best ever version of the Snakes Ethos in the G5. The people that appreciated the back to basics, Cobra dna are up in years and the generations after could care less about its history. They want tech, tech and more tech even as the Viper has beaten the heck out of their techno-masterpieces of its day with its comparative lower tech. That is the demographic that they have to cater to if they want to move x amount of units imho.

Well I'm "only" 40 and I'm interested in back-to-basic but I consider myself part of the enthusiast minority. Most guys pulling up the the Ritz are looking to make a different kind of statement ;-) and it seems there are more of them than us...





Am I open to good paddles or sequential? Sure. Getting rid of the 10? Perhaps a necessity. But I think one hell of a new Viper could be produced by the right people with the right budget, and as a halo car. Will that happen? I doubt it. Again, JMO. I hope I'm wrong.

P.S. I agree the 4c makes zero sense to me. Especially for the money.

Agree on the 4C pricing. The Spyder I drove was $93,000 CDN. The base spec at $65K I get.

As you said...good paddles, a new but charismatic engine, the right people...all makes the difference.


Simply laying the wing back on the straights and perhaps increasing the angle under braking would be a benefit. Kind of a dangerous thing to be playing with though if you get it wrong or it malfunctions (mechanically, electrically, software, etc.). High speed turns would be a challenge to dial in I would think and complicate the functionality. Extensive testing would be key and the wing would need to be fairly quick to adjust to inputs as needed.


High speed turns would be a serious issue. That is where the air hardest to model and getting it to work on even say two or three different body shapes would be seriously impressive.

I was thinking the same thing. Cool but I guess you'd need to really feel your way around the active aero on a variety of circuits but how could you ever be sure it would do the right thing for the circumstance? I assume real race teams are programming all this track to track.

ANOTHER THOUGHT

Ferrari is actually a good example for what the next Viper should be...in the sense that they use technology to not only improve performance but also heighten excitement. They're probably the only ones that really focus on the thrill the driver experiences over lap times...and the cars are plenty good at lap time too.

[Chorps]

4C was never designed for North America. It was 2153 pounds in Euro spec, 2495 pounds once it got US specced.

[Vprbite]

4C was never designed for North America. It was 2153 pounds in Euro spec, 2495 pounds once it got US specced.

What was the difference?

Remember the big ass ugly bumper on the US Countache? Painful to look at.

[ViperPete]

Small displacement V10 mid engine super car. Flappy paddles and a lot of carbon fiber.

If they were going to continue with the Viper, that would probably be the way to go.

[v10enomous]

Small displacement V10 mid engine super car. Flappy paddles and a lot of carbon fiber.

If they were going to continue with the Viper, that would probably be the way to go.

Flat plane crank too...

[v10enomous]

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/harleys-v-rod-offers-glimpse-what-chevy-faces-mid-engine-corvette?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

Harley's V-Rod offers glimpse of what Chevy faces with mid-engine Corvette

AUGUST 10, 2016


PUTTING THE ENGINE BEHIND THE DRIVER DEFINITELY HAS ITS ADVANTAGES

If Chevrolet product planners in Detroit want to know what they are facing in trying to lure younger buyers into the Corvette, all they need to do is look some 386 miles to the west to 3700 W. Juneau Ave. in Milwaukee.

That’s where Harley-Davidson lives. The famed maker of V-twin-powered motorcycles is as much a part of the fabric of American transportation culture as Chevrolet -- both companies are more than a century old, and both are searching for younger buyers.

Harley kick-started its youth effort 15 years ago with the V-Rod, its first motorcycle powered by a water-cooled, overhead-cam engine. To add to the V-Rod’s cool factor, Harley called in Porsche to help design the new engine. The stylish V-Rod, still in production and marketed as the Night Rod, was a complete break from Harley’s past, an effort to lure younger riders who were buying Honda, Triumph and Kawasaki sport bikes.

Mid-engine Corvette is comingCAR NEWS Report: Mid-engine Corvette on sale in early 2019
If you’ve been paying attention to the Detroit rumor mill this summer, you know Chevrolet is contemplating a move with the Corvette every bit as radical as Harley’s V-Rod.

Word on the street here has Chevrolet tearing up the next-generation Corvette and planting the engine behind the driver, making the eighth iteration of America’s sports car midengined for the first time. It could be in production by 2019. Putting the engine behind the driver has advantages that could see the Corvette’s weight go down, its handling performance go up, its 0-to-60 time drop and its appeal to tech-savvy buyers expand.

Such a move would be as radical a transformation for the Corvette -- which was born in 1953 with its engine in the front driving the rear wheels and has stayed that way ever since -- as Harley-Davidson building a motorcycle with a water-cooled, overhead-cam engine.



Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/harleys-v-rod-offers-glimpse-what-chevy-faces-mid-engine-corvette#ixzz4H8dbEJHg

[v10viperbox]

What was the difference?

Remember the big ass ugly bumper on the US Countache? Painful to look at.

Door bars and some extra crash protection. Plus the US got AC standard and a few other things. Again I was using it as an example. If that is what FCA thinks is a properly developed specialty car that the Viper coming back is in serious trouble. I have faith that the engineers can design the car correctly, and that the stylists can make it beautiful. But the accountants will destroy what makes the car great in the long run.

[Vprbite]

Accountants always destroy cool concept cars. How many times have we seen an awesome concept car get put through the pussifier?

The Viper was unique in that it was about as close to the concept as I've ever seen a production car.