Dodge should have done 18" front wheels...

[SharpMan]

Is it just me or does it seem that Dodge should have gone with an 18" front wheel? If Finnspeed and others can make a suitably strong wheel at that diameter than it probably should have been apparent to Dodge in their development.

Don't get me wrong..I think the level of track-oriented engineering of the ACR is unprecedented but it seems that an 18" wheel would have not only provided more tire options but better wear characteristics or am I off base?

[donk_316]

Something to do with clearing the CCBs?

[bluesrt]

I think the whole set up was to peak out the factory times they did, wheel and tire pakage for merchant purposes .as far as the best trac wheel package, woodhouse has it nailed on that

[VENOM V]

Let's see how the 18/19" wheels that clear the CCBs work out for folks before drawing conclusions. There's only something like 2mm clearance between the 18" Forgelines and the CCB calipers. That leaves nothing for small rocks to travel through, and I wonder if deflection during hard contact with curbing Etc. could be a problem. But if after a couple months people aren't having issues, I may spring for them.

[Nambo]

I do have grooves cut in the barrel of the 18" wheel where rubber and debris caught between the caliper and the wheel. It is not very deep and is just a little more pronounced than pictures posted earlier of the same markings on the 19" front wheels.

[One Viper Bite]

I think the main factor was fitting the 6 piston calipers for the CCBs along with cooling.

As far as I am aware, none of the factory 18 inch wheels for the Gen V can accommodate the 6 pistons up front.

[Junkie]

Whats wrong with 19's? R7's go on and people have been going fast on that tire.

[Nambo]

Whats wrong with 19's? R7's go on and people have been going fast on that tire.

To me, the car feels more balanced with a wider front tire (315). To got that wide on a 19" rim you will need to trim the fender wells and even then you risk damaging the hood in an off track episode especially if you are near lock with the wheel. I would hate to have to replace the hood.

[Voice of Reason]

To me, the car feels more balanced with a wider front tire (315). To got that wide on a 19" rim you will need to trim the fender wells and even then you risk damaging the hood in an off track episode especially if you are near lock with the wheel. I would hate to have to replace the hood.

Why would a 19" wheel differ from a 18"? The overall tire diameter is the same between both, the 19s are lower profile. So if you're risking damage with a 315 on a 18" wheel the same should apply on a 19".

[VENOM V]

I do have grooves cut in the barrel of the 18" wheel where rubber and debris caught between the caliper and the wheel. It is not very deep and is just a little more pronounced than pictures posted earlier of the same markings on the 19" front wheels.

Yes this is my main concern. Please keep us posted if the grooves become of concern. Very interested in going this route. Thinking about pulling the trigger on some Forgelines right now. What tires are you running?

[kverges]

Why would a 19" wheel differ from a 18"? The overall tire diameter is the same between both, the 19s are lower profile. So if you're risking damage with a 315 on a 18" wheel the same should apply on a 19".

Overall a 315/30-19 is about .7" greater diameter than 315/30-18. The stock 295/25-19 is a very small tire at about 24.8" and a real challenge to match in diameter.

Incidentally, has anyone tried to go crazy with a R7 335/30-18 in front? It's 25.6" diameter, same as 315/30-18

[VENOM V]

Why would a 19" wheel differ from a 18"? The overall tire diameter is the same between both, the 19s are lower profile. So if you're risking damage with a 315 on a 18" wheel the same should apply on a 19".

The 19s are not lower profile, at least for slicks.

19" front Kumho: 24.5" high
18" front Hoosier 295/30-18: 25.3" high. This would work
18" front Hoosier 315/30-18: 25.6" high. Ran these on my GTS, they worked well. But it's an inch taller than stock.
19" front Hoosier 295/30-19: 26.1" high. I've been told they do rub. Risk of damage as Nambo points out. Plus, hard to get the rake.
19" front Hoosier 315/30-19: 26.1" high, but REALLY wide. More risk of damage.

I also have a problem at my local tracks- I'm at redline at the end of the main straight in 4th at tracks near me. 5th gear shift loses too much speed and time. So I don't like that the rear Hoosiers (26.8" high) are shorter than the stock Kumhos (~27.4" high), which would require a 5th gear shift at Thunderhill and probably Laguna Seca.

I'm likely going with Pirelli DH slicks on Forgeline 1-piece wheels:
305/645-18 front, 25.4" high
325/705-19 rear, 27.75" high

Kumhos 24.5 f / 27.4 r
Pirelli Slicks 25.4 f / 27.75 r

[SharpMan]

I do have grooves cut in the barrel of the 18" wheel where rubber and debris caught between the caliper and the wheel. It is not very deep and is just a little more pronounced than pictures posted earlier of the same markings on the 19" front wheels.


Whats wrong with 19's? R7's go on and people have been going fast on that tire.


Why would a 19" wheel differ from a 18"? The overall tire diameter is the same between both, the 19s are lower profile. So if you're risking damage with a 315 on a 18" wheel the same should apply on a 19".


The 19s are not lower profile, at least for slicks.

19" front Kumho: 24.5" high
18" front Hoosier 295/30-18: 25.3" high. This would work
18" front Hoosier 315/30-18: 25.6" high. Ran these on my GTS, they worked well. But it's an inch taller than stock.
19" front Hoosier 295/30-19: 26.1" high. I've been told they do rub. Risk of damage as Nambo points out. Plus, hard to get the rake.
19" front Hoosier 315/30-19: 26.1" high, but REALLY wide. More risk of damage.

I also have a problem at my local tracks- I'm at redline at the end of the main straight in 4th at tracks near me. 5th gear shift loses too much speed and time. So I don't like that the rear Hoosiers (26.8" high) are shorter than the stock Kumhos (~27.4" high), which would require a 5th gear shift at Thunderhill and probably Laguna Seca.

I'm likely going with Pirelli DH slicks on Forgeline 1-piece wheels:
305/645-18 front, 25.4" high
325/705-19 rear, 27.75" high

Kumhos 24.5 f / 27.4 r
Pirelli Slicks 25.4 f / 27.75 r

Great info. Thanks.

I was also thinking that a set of 18s would present some better street tire options and typically I like both the feel and look of a taller sidewall better as well.

[Arizona Vipers]

I'm planning on ordering 18" fronts for my ACR as well for the track. No way am I running the front Kumho's from everything I've read. I simply cannot afford to replace my fronts every few sessions. My only concern is as others have said, debris causing damage with the extremely tight tolerances. Who out there has a lot of track miles on 18"' front wheels/CCB's??

[jpgunn123]

The 19s are not lower profile, at least for slicks.

19" front Kumho: 24.5" high
18" front Hoosier 295/30-18: 25.3" high. This would work
18" front Hoosier 315/30-18: 25.6" high. Ran these on my GTS, they worked well. But it's an inch taller than stock.
19" front Hoosier 295/30-19: 26.1" high. I've been told they do rub. Risk of damage as Nambo points out. Plus, hard to get the rake.
19" front Hoosier 315/30-19: 26.1" high, but REALLY wide. More risk of damage.

I also have a problem at my local tracks- I'm at redline at the end of the main straight in 4th at tracks near me. 5th gear shift loses too much speed and time. So I don't like that the rear Hoosiers (26.8" high) are shorter than the stock Kumhos (~27.4" high), which would require a 5th gear shift at Thunderhill and probably Laguna Seca.

I'm likely going with Pirelli DH slicks on Forgeline 1-piece wheels:
305/645-18 front, 25.4" high
325/705-19 rear, 27.75" high

Kumhos 24.5 f / 27.4 r
Pirelli Slicks 25.4 f / 27.75 r

The 285/30/18 Hoosier is 24.8" tall and is wider than the 295/30/18, so I would run the 285 or the 315/30/18 in the front.

[Nambo]

Yes this is my main concern. Please keep us posted if the grooves become of concern. Very interested in going this route. Thinking about pulling the trigger on some Forgelines right now. What tires are you running?

Right now I am running Michelin slicks. Front tire wear was not much better than the Kumho's though. Michelin made a change in construction for their 2016 slicks which they say require a different setup than in the past. Working with them to find out what setup changes I might need. Will move on to the Pirelli slicks if I can't get the Michelins to last longer. Am definitely going to take a notch of rear wing out for the next track day to see if that helps the balance. Rear stays planted and the front tends to push. Safer that way but hell on tires.

[VENOM V]

Right now I am running Michelin slicks. Front tire wear was not much better than the Kumho's though. Michelin made a change in construction for their 2016 slicks which they say require a different setup than in the past. Working with them to find out what setup changes I might need. Will move on to the Pirelli slicks if I can't get the Michelins to last longer. Am definitely going to take a notch of rear wing out for the next track day to see if that helps the balance. Rear stays planted and the front tends to push. Safer that way but hell on tires.

Even with the wing in position 1 it's surprisingly safe. So easy to drive through any issue without drama. This ACR is bad ass, plain and simple.

Luke is getting good life out of the Pirelli fronts, and he's faster on them than the Kumhos, no need to cool them off midsession. The Pirellis seem to be the ticket.

[Junkie]

Man its looking like 18/19 on Pirelli may be the ticket than, upsetting. I was really hoping I could use Hoosiers on my factory wheels without issue and then buy a set of 19/20 or 20/21 to drive around with on the street.

[VENOM V]

The 285/30/18 Hoosier is 24.8" tall and is wider than the 295/30/18, so I would run the 285 or the 315/30/18 in the front.

Good idea. That lower sidewall of the 285 would be a nice match to the stock Kumho height

[SharpMan]

All this has me thinking I might go with the steel rotors (Ceramics are also $10,000 option on Canadian 1 of 1 GTC / ACRs).

That said...I'm not sure they are going to allow me any more changes...I think I'm already driving them nuts...and myself.

[mjorgensen]

The 285/30/18 Hoosier is 24.8" tall and is wider than the 295/30/18, so I would run the 285 or the 315/30/18 in the front.

285/18 Hoosier tread width is 10.6" and 295/19 Kumho is 11.1"

[mjorgensen]

I'm planning on ordering 18" fronts for my ACR as well for the track. No way am I running the front Kumho's from everything I've read. I simply cannot afford to replace my fronts every few sessions. My only concern is as others have said, debris causing damage with the extremely tight tolerances. Who out there has a lot of track miles on 18"' front wheels/CCB's??

Although JD's car with 18" front did get some scratching as he said it is not deep, the very small gap may prevent the larger more damaging chunks from getting lodged in the brake/rim gap like we have seen on the 19" wheels. There is nowhere near enough deflection to worry about contact of rim and caliper unless of course you hit something very hard and bend "egg" a wheel.

[Bruce H.]

SRT and Pirelli discussed the possibility of new tires coming to market for the ACR during the panel discussion at NVE2. It sounded like Pirelli was just one supplier looking at making them in ACR sizes. SRT must recognize the need and are working on it. Hoping something is announced soon for you guys.

[Nambo]

The Michelin's offer a nice footprint, same contact patch in the front with a slightly smaller one in the rear than the Hoosiers. The Kumho's are good for 3 laps and then overheat, then push, then self destruct if you don't back off and let them cool. I don't get enough track time for that crap. Kumho's are great for the street but I am not wasting any more time with them on the track. The front 30/65-18's Michelins have a tread width of 11.8" at a height of 25.6" which is the same as the 315/30-18 Hoosier. The rear 31/71-19 has a tread with of 12.0" at a height of 27.8". That is 1" narrower than the Hoosier 345/30-19 but it is also 1" taller than the Hoosier which keeps the ratio of tire heights closer to stock. The ABS and traction control (I track with it off but wanted to verify if it would work with the new tire setup) both functioned normally with the Michelins.

[mjorgensen]

Just wanted to insert some pictures for this thread incase someone finds it.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Woodhouse-Motorsports-Division/167968157736

18693
18694
18695

[SharpMan]

Just wanted to insert some pictures for this thread incase someone finds it.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Woodhouse-Motorsports-Division/167968157736

18693
18694
18695

I love the look. What street tire brand / size would run on this setup?

[mjorgensen]

I love the look. What street tire brand / size would run on this setup?

Pirelli 355/19 and 295/18 P Zeros should work, they are 2.4" difference front to rear and the stock is 2.7". The only concern would be at high speeds on the road they are not designed to support that much down force so would HAVE TO keep that in mind when using them, could be very bad situation at higher speeds.

Although... I have a customer that does open road challenges and at times use even the Super Sports on his ACRX because of possible tramlining of the slicks and puncture prevention and he has not had any issues.

[Exhlr8n]

Mark,

Those pics look quite a bit lower than mine at the track height settings of 4" front and 5.5" rear. Fronts were turned down roughly 12.25 full turns and rears 5 full turns down.

Are those cars lower than the 4"/5.5" stagger?

[mjorgensen]

Mark,

Those pics look quite a bit lower than mine at the track height settings of 4" front and 5.5" rear. Fronts were turned down roughly 12.25 full turns and rears 5 full turns down.

Are those cars lower than the 4"/5.5" stagger?

All the cars we do unless asked are 4 and 5.5 at the frame, these tires are taller in front so gap at the hood is less.

[Junkie]

All the cars we do unless asked are 4 and 5.5 at the frame, these tires are taller in front so gap at the hood is less.

man that setup looks so great.

How do the tires react? Front life is obviously not much better than the Kumho's? Do they get slick after a few fast laps or are they leveled our more and just more grip on a consistent basis?

[mjorgensen]

man that setup looks so great.

How do the tires react? Front life is obviously not much better than the Kumho's? Do they get slick after a few fast laps or are they leveled our more and just more grip on a consistent basis?

Very consistent, 3rd lap is the hero lap, the slightly less and same grip right to the cords.

[Nambo]

man that setup looks so great.

How do the tires react? Front life is obviously not much better than the Kumho's? Do they get slick after a few fast laps or are they leveled our more and just more grip on a consistent basis?

The Michelins take 2 laps more than the Kumho's and 1 lap more than the Hoosier's to come up to temp. After that they remain consistently faster than both of the others for the rest of a 25 minute session. In my experience, the Hoosiers would get greasy towards the end of a session, the Michelins do not. They fall off slightly from their peak at lap 4 but stay rock solid after that.

I think that part of the premature wear was the track surface I was running on, lots of destroyed rubber at that event. The track surface was rough aggregate that was actually breaking up (I have a broken windshield as well) and they don't use a brush to clear the track surface. I will try the Michelins again at COTA in September and see how they last on that track before passing final judgement.

[jpgunn123]

Since the SCCA is putting the car in SSP for now, I am going to try and get more grip up front and go to 18" -- My current thought is to go with 18X12 up front with the Hoosier 335/30/18 and 18X13 in the rear with 345/35/18. There seems to be plenty of room to go inboard with an extra inch of width in the front, and make sure I don't get near the fender lip. Has anyone else tried an 18X12 with the 335/30/18 up front on a Gen V?

[kverges]

Since the SCCA is putting the car in SSP for now, I am going to try and get more grip up front and go to 18" -- My current thought is to go with 18X12 up front with the Hoosier 335/30/18 and 18X13 in the rear with 345/35/18. There seems to be plenty of room to go inboard with an extra inch of width in the front, and make sure I don't get near the fender lip. Has anyone else tried an 18X12 with the 335/30/18 up front on a Gen V?
I second that question. More Front Tire!

[One Viper Bite]

Although JD's car with 18" front did get some scratching as he said it is not deep, the very small gap may prevent the larger more damaging chunks from getting lodged in the brake/rim gap like we have seen on the 19" wheels. There is nowhere near enough deflection to worry about contact of rim and caliper unless of course you hit something very hard and bend "egg" a wheel.

Does this mean us non-ACR guys can upgrade to the 6 piston ACR calipers with our stock 18 inch wheels?

[Drlee50]

Its a gen 2 but I run 335 Hoosier slicks on my car front and rear and oh my god. SO much better! Talk about neutral . Just what that car needs up front. I have no gen 5 data - sorry LOL!

[jpgunn123]

I second that question. More Front Tire!

Wheels are being made right now. Should have them in a month to see how it all works. It looked to me like there was plenty of room in board in the front at full lock, and I did speak with Finspeed who has run this setup on a Gen 5 without issue.

I drove a Gen IV with a 335 up front and it was great.