Subtle change in marketing

[I Bin Therbefor]

The seats are no longer identified as coming from Ferrari's supplier but rather as coming from the supplier that also supplies the seats for the GTS-R. The same manufacture is named just a different association. This is consistant with putting a lot of marketing money into the racing program as a means of reaching the target audiance. Sort of cleaning things up a bit and making it all nice and neat.:o

[Troublemaker]

Ditch the luxury mentality and get back to the racing mentality, good move. It's been my standpoint from the beginning, get back to what makes the Viper the Viper.

[johniew398]

http://www.sabelt.com/en/news/Pages/Sabelt_Viper_srt.aspx

[ViperSmith]

Ditch the luxury mentality and get back to the racing mentality, good move. It's been my standpoint from the beginning, get back to what makes the Viper the Viper.

Because the Gen 4 flew off lots with that line of thinking

[Troublemaker]

Because the Gen 4 flew off lots with that line of thinking

The Gen4 hit in a very poor economy, and people soon found out it had a computer in it that will forever neuter the car. The new breed of buyer never showed up in the droves that SRT hoped for, so the hopes are that they will go back to the formula that sold the Gen2. They have priced the car out of the game for the less than stellar performance that the GTS delivered, the TA is on the right track.

[ViperSmith]

The Gen4 hit in a very poor economy, and people soon found out it had a computer in it that will forever neuter the car. The new breed of buyer never showed up in the droves that SRT hoped for, so the hopes are that they will go back to the formula that sold the Gen2. They have priced the car out of the game for the less than stellar performance that the GTS delivered, the TA is on the right track.

This isn't 1996 anymore, as much as people wish it was for whatever reason.

Throw aero on the GTS or the SRT and you'll come to virtually identical times as the TA.

People complaining that it has lack luster performance obviously haven't given it a proper go around the track. Anyone here who has tracked it will attest it is a complete monster.

But hey, lets all remember how fast the Gen II was 17 years ago.

[ViperSmith]

Personally, as someone who bought a Gen V, the fact people think it should be what an Ariel Atom is - have the right to their opinion, but I would have never bought one, even at a $70,000 price point.

I love the fact you could track the car then take your wife out on the town later in the evening.

This is 2014, the market dictates by everything else out there, people want more than just a steel floor.

As an aside, I feel sales suffered for the Viper because after the 100 red SRT models were made, 25 total SRTs were built for 2013.

Dealers ordered loaded GTS models - not the base models which I think would have sold better. It was dealer greed that has led to lackluster sales so far.

[Policy Limits]

They only sold 1/2 made because the guys who want the car can't afford it & the consumer who has that kind of coin doesn't want it (what a pickle). It's not the economy, as the aventador sold out before made and with 100k premium. The marketing also did play some role, the test car that literally fell apart, launch delays, poor reviews, etc.

But hey, apparently it's nothing new as there are 4-6 year old snakes that are still "new" cars that never sold. So SRT is probably used to it, though I doubt it's to this extent. For what 100-135 k gets you around the board, it makes competition very intense. There's the other outstanding NEW cars that price like Lotus, Maserati, Porsche, GTR, and then there's all the pre owned cars that you can get for that price like Bentley, Ferrari Lambo. Tough tough market.

People want that refined flappy paddle put my chai in my cup holder crap. Though the Gen V has a touch of refinement , it's still a ballsy street legal race car. Ill bet it's the only production car today that comes with side exhaust pipes and exclusively comes with a V10 with a standard manual transmission. Bring on soul and leave the video game at home :)

[Troublemaker]

Your first sentence sums it up in a nutshell. You can't go after both buyers, you need to pick a target and give it everything you have, or at least everything the Fiat will let you have. Like it or not, they hold the purse strings now. The car is a good base, but it has an identity crisis going on, they really need to figure out what they want it to be and who they want as their target buyer. The high end buyer they were looking to lure over, has different requirements. Most don't want to or just can't push a clutch in, heck some probably can't even drive a manual. They are looking for a car that is "exclusive", I even hate that I used that word at all, but vanity definitely comes into play over $100,000.

It's a Dodge, even if SRT wants to call it something else. The buyers are out there, but just as SRT has no idea who they are, they may not even know they are them themselves. There lies the problem, the marketing was so bad, neither side really even knew who the other was.

We all have our ideas of what defines a Viper, mine are more old school.

[Jack B]

I am totally with you, the SRT seemed like the perfect car for a dealer's inventory. A little different, but, linked to the SRT is the way every hater/doubter starts with the statement, "$150,000 (or $130,000) priced them out of the market". I didn't realize how much faster a loaded GTS is than the SRT?



Personally, as someone who bought a Gen V, the fact people think it should be what an Ariel Atom is - have the right to their opinion, but I would have never bought one, even at a $70,000 price point.

I love the fact you could track the car then take your wife out on the town later in the evening.

This is 2014, the market dictates by everything else out there, people want more than just a steel floor.

As an aside, I feel sales suffered for the Viper because after the 100 red SRT models were made, 25 total SRTs were built for 2013.

Dealers ordered loaded GTS models - not the base models which I think would have sold better. It was dealer greed that has led to lackluster sales so far.

[Nine Ball]

We all know the SRT w/ track pack is the fastest Gen 5. ;)

[Newport Viper]

:t0152:

[Policy Limits]

Who can deny that for 116-120k a crusher orange TA isn't the baddest sexiest most raw street legal race car in the market today? That thing is A VIPER and IMO it is probably the best one made to date. Point being, the car is still raw and can appeal to that market. But if they had one model you could build from, you'd still have a guy like me paying more for GTS options up from the base as well as SRT track pack models. The two models added to the confusion; should've been one to build up from, like a Porsche. A guy building a new 911 can spend 100k or 200k as he options (or doesn't option) it out. The variants should be TA roadster & ACR only.

[VoodooRob]

Who can deny that for 116-120k a crusher orange TA isn't the baddest sexiest most raw street legal race car in the market today? That thing is A VIPER and IMO it is probably the best one made to date. Point being, the car is still raw and can appeal to that market. But if they had one model you could build from, you'd still have a guy like me paying more for GTS options up from the base as well as SRT track pack models. The two models added to the confusion; should've been one to build up from, like a Porsche. A guy building a new 911 can spend 100k or 200k as he options (or doesn't option) it out. The variants should be TA roadster & ACR only.

100% Agreed

[Policy Limits]

But hind sight is 20/20 and moving forward constructively what's the answer? Well to start you have a young energetic knowledgeable and passionate CEO with good intentions. You have Fiat now in exclusive control with resources and experience in the Euro market. There's this racing program and some so so marketing(have you seen the TV ad with the Viper in it?). I think SRT exclusive dealerships might work, both in bringing consumers in who are new to the brand and keeping people currently here who are here already. Making paddle shifters an option might make sense. Cleaning up the ordering process is a must. And here's what they've done right & should continue with: the viper book that was delivered with a personalized letter, it felt awesome. The flag that was sent out, another great touch.

[Viktimize]

I can't believe you can't get an SRT with the adjustable mode suspension. Seems silly that I have to upgrade to a full on GTS to get that. That essentially ties my hands to a GTS, but my bank account ties me more to an SRT.

[Russ Oasis]

Viper has always been my favorite car. I also believe that what launched Viper in such a monster fashion back in 1992 was that it was SO FAR OUT OF THE BOX. Not that it appealed to Corvette and Porsche owners. It didn't. It cut out its own cult following. It had none of the creature comforts (including windows and AC) that other sports cars were touting. It was a flat- out performance brute. It seems that we've lost a bit of that (in the marketing anyway). I agree that the leather interior is killer. That said, no Viper loyalists are buying the car because of the leather interior or the fancy radio. You can't appeal to both the luxury market and the performance market at the same time. Yes, Ferrari gets away with it because of the raw MONEY snob factor. Viper isn't that kind of car. My guess is that more TRACK DRIVERS own Vipers than Ferraris. Ferrari ownership is about showing others how much money you have.
If I were the ad / marketing agency for Viper, I'd lead with the Nurburgring time and use video clips of the car going around the track setting that record. When you NARROW the focus of the marketing, it actually ends up casting a wider net. (See: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout). I love my Vipers (all 7 of them), but would rather have a turbo(ed) engine or a trick sequential transmission, than leather seats and a radio.

[ViperSmith]

Viper has always been my favorite car. I also believe that what launched Viper in such a monster fashion back in 1992 was that it was SO FAR OUT OF THE BOX. Not that it appealed to Corvette and Porsche owners. It didn't. It cut out its own cult following. It had none of the creature comforts (including windows and AC) that other sports cars were touting. It was a flat- out performance brute. It seems that we've lost a bit of that (in the marketing anyway). I agree that the leather interior is killer. That said, no Viper loyalists are buying the car because of the leather interior or the fancy radio. You can't appeal to both the luxury market and the performance market at the same time. Yes, Ferrari gets away with it because of the raw MONEY snob factor. Viper isn't that kind of car. My guess is that more TRACK DRIVERS own Vipers than Ferraris. Ferrari ownership is about showing others how much money you have.
If I were the ad / marketing agency for Viper, I'd lead with the Nurburgring time and use video clips of the car going around the track setting that record. When you NARROW the focus of the marketing, it actually ends up casting a wider net. (See: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout). I love my Vipers (all 7 of them), but would rather have a turbo(ed) engine or a trick sequential transmission, than leather seats and a radio.

That is pure, unadulterated crazy talk.

I love the fact the car is a pure track monster that my wife loves to ride in to go out to a nice dinner or just around town.

The car itself, everything in it, is outstanding. The issue is and has been the dealer network, launch, and subsequent marketing (which is turning around). SRT didn't help itself by flub after flub - but it seems to be fixing.

I personally didn't know the car was back until way after it was introduced again. Dealers didn't return my calls, SRT didn't advertise what dealers would be able to order well, dealers didn't call back to allow for ordering - so - everything you could do wrong to sell your product happened. It shouldn't have been so difficult to part with $110,000





As an aside, I also think the "economy" reason for the Gen IV not selling well is overstated. The ZR1 moved 1400 units in 2009 and 1500 in 2010, where the Gen IV moved 658 and 507 respectively. The ACR was pure bare bones awesomeness - so why haven't people complaining the Gen V is "too refined" bought up the brand new ones still sitting on dealer floors?

Criticism to me seems a bit misplaced since what you describe you want to badly didn't move off show room floors. (Chevy also sold 4400 Z06's in that same time period, 7700 in 2008 itself) http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2013/04/c6-production-numbers/

[Troublemaker]

Viper has always been my favorite car. I also believe that what launched Viper in such a monster fashion back in 1992 was that it was SO FAR OUT OF THE BOX. Not that it appealed to Corvette and Porsche owners. It didn't. It cut out its own cult following. It had none of the creature comforts (including windows and AC) that other sports cars were touting. It was a flat- out performance brute. It seems that we've lost a bit of that (in the marketing anyway). I agree that the leather interior is killer. That said, no Viper loyalists are buying the car because of the leather interior or the fancy radio. You can't appeal to both the luxury market and the performance market at the same time. Yes, Ferrari gets away with it because of the raw MONEY snob factor. Viper isn't that kind of car. My guess is that more TRACK DRIVERS own Vipers than Ferraris. Ferrari ownership is about showing others how much money you have.
If I were the ad / marketing agency for Viper, I'd lead with the Nurburgring time and use video clips of the car going around the track setting that record. When you NARROW the focus of the marketing, it actually ends up casting a wider net. (See: "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout). I love my Vipers (all 7 of them), but would rather have a turbo(ed) engine or a trick sequential transmission, than leather seats and a radio.

I think we are on the same page, the Viper basically created the game, now it's just another player.


As an aside, I also think the "economy" reason for the Gen IV not selling well is overstated. The ZR1 moved 1400 units in 2009 and 1500 in 2010, where the Gen IV moved 658 and 507 respectively. The ACR was pure bare bones awesomeness - so why haven't people complaining the Gen V is "too refined" bought up the brand new ones still sitting on dealer floors?

Criticism to me seems a bit misplaced since what you describe you want to badly didn't move off show room floors. (Chevy also sold 4400 Z06's in that same time period, 7700 in 2008 itself) http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2013...ction-numbers

This is where I don't believe you understand the mindset of the Gen2 buyers, then and now. I've got parts coming for my car right now, that couldn't even work with a Gen4 if I wanted to, stupid knock sensors. The Gen4 has the ECM issue, that has held a lot of people from getting them, any type of FI is out the window short of a stand alone and you can see how many people took that route.

I for on was never a fan of the 3&4 looks, it's justs my opinion.

It's interesting that you mention taking the wife out. Mine loves riding in my " old car", and even went with me to look at the Gen5 at the dealer. Her response was that it looks like the one I have. She actually walked away from the Viper and went and looked at the Challengers. This is where I am now, waiting for them to build the car I want. Nineball's car is as close to perfect as it gets for me, unfortunately every dealer I have been to shot themselves in the foot by stocking all GTSs. The TA might be in my future too, I'll save my opinion until I actually see one on the track this year.

Until then, we will have to agree to having different opinions.

[Nine Ball]

This is where I don't believe you understand the mindset of the Gen2 buyers, then and now. I've got parts coming for my car right now, that couldn't even work with a Gen4 if I wanted to, stupid knock sensors. The Gen4 has the ECM issue, that has held a lot of people from getting them, any type of FI is out the window short of a stand alone and you can see how many people took that route.

FI is a lot of fun, but keep in mind that the Gen 1-3 cars actually need FI to hang with a stock Gen 4-5 car. Those who spent the thousands to put Roes and Paxtons on their Gen 1-3 cars and were happy with the results, will also be happy with the performance of a stock Gen 4-5 car.

[Russ Oasis]

Gentlemen,
Check out the very famous marketing book entitled "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout. They have written an entire series of marketing and advertising books and consult for huge corporations. One of the 22 Laws is that you must NARROW your focus to actually do better in a segment. Troublemaker states that "we created the game (category)." If that's true (and I kind of feel that there is some merit to it) then being the first "in the category," we should own the category. That's in the book. If we don't own the category, it could be our fault for trying to be everything to everybody, rather that the hot and nasty race car that the core Viper owners want and made the Viper famous in the first place . I speak only for myself, but I don't care if the car can be easily driven around town or if my girlfriend / wife likes the way it drives. I want a car that intimidates Ferraris, Porsches, and McClarens on the track. I don't care if the car magazines say that the footwell is hot. THAT'S WHAT RACE CARS ARE ABOUT. All I care about is that we beat everybody else when the car is taken to the track. As far as the dealer network goes, most of the criticisms that you guys direct at the dealerships are deserved. That said, if the demand even by a small group was high enough, people would do whatever they had to (with dealers) to get the car. Dealers are simply the pimple on the ass of an elephant. Finally, do not misconstrue my comments. I love Vipers more than any other car. I have 7 of them and will purchase the Gen V within the next 60 days. I'm just giving you my personal feedback about where Viper could be veering off track with marketing and direction. I don't think it's "crazy talk" to want us to maintain the track record at Nurburgring, VIR, Sebring, Daytona, New Jersey Motorsports Park, Laguna Seca, etc. In fact, rather than crazy talk, it's the heart of the car.

[Jack B]

IMHO you are far better off with the MCS or Penske shocks for both street or track. They also allow you to adjust ride height.



I can't believe you can't get an SRT with the adjustable mode suspension. Seems silly that I have to upgrade to a full on GTS to get that. That essentially ties my hands to a GTS, but my bank account ties me more to an SRT.

[05Commemorative]

Gentlemen,
Check out the very famous marketing book entitled "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing" by Ries and Trout. They have written an entire series of marketing and advertising books and consult for huge corporations. One of the 22 Laws is that you must NARROW your focus to actually do better in a segment. Troublemaker states that "we created the game (category)." If that's true (and I kind of feel that there is some merit to it) then being the first "in the category," we should own the category. That's in the book. If we don't own the category, it could be our fault for trying to be everything to everybody, rather that the hot and nasty race car that the core Viper owners want and made the Viper famous in the first place . I speak only for myself, but I don't care if the car can be easily driven around town or if my girlfriend / wife likes the way it drives. I want a car that intimidates Ferraris, Porsches, and McClarens on the track. I don't care if the car magazines say that the footwell is hot. THAT'S WHAT RACE CARS ARE ABOUT. All I care about is that we beat everybody else when the car is taken to the track. As far as the dealer network goes, most of the criticisms that you guys direct at the dealerships are deserved. That said, if the demand even by a small group was high enough, people would do whatever they had to (with dealers) to get the car. Dealers are simply the pimple on the ass of an elephant. Finally, do not misconstrue my comments. I love Vipers more than any other car. I have 7 of them and will purchase the Gen V within the next 60 days. I'm just giving you my personal feedback about where Viper could be veering off track with marketing and direction. I don't think it's "crazy talk" to want us to maintain the track record at Nurburgring, VIR, Sebring, Daytona, New Jersey Motorsports Park, Laguna Seca, etc. In fact, rather than crazy talk, it's the heart of the car.

I agree with much of your points, but when you say "that is what race cars are about", you lose me a bit. The car is not a race car and to suggest that it is would be a gross mis-representation. Of all street cars, it might be one of the closest. The reason I have a problem with the statement is to be true, you then would be ok with the following:
1) no interior to speak of (no carpet, no side windows, no heater, no radio, no ac, on and on, etc
2) exposed factory rollbar

Again, lets not confuse ourselves. It is a street car that is pretty good out of the box on a road course. Lets not think that somehow it should not have the modern conveniences of street cars that already exist in $25k economy cars. Seriously, the Gen2 interiors (and the gen 3/4) are much worse that what is in a Kia today. I just say it is time to let that argument go.

The Viper does not own a category. If it did, what would it be? scariest car to drive at speed? Not good on the streets or at the limit? Those are the perceptions and worst yet, many of the owners are actually proud to say that. Seriously, cars are safer, faster, better quality and have more technology and luxury than 10yrs ago or even more so than 20yrs ago. A car with "only" raw performance and looks could compete then because most every other car was crap in the other categories as well. That is no longer the case today.

so, back to Marketing which is purely about getting an audience interested and purchasing your product. So, for the person interested in buying a $100k-130k sports car, the following exists:
1) Viper
2) Z07/ZR1 corvette (whatever they call it) when it comes out soon - not enough info yet
3) Porsche 911 S - great quality, design, reputation - you either love or hate it. manual/auto/conv/coupe, 2wheel/4wheel drive, all options you want, amazing dealer network, history
4) GTR - easy to drive at max. auto only, coupe only - easy to drive is its strength and weekness
5) low end Aston Martin - not as performant, but great looking, sound, luxury, auto only, coupe/conv
6) Audi R8 (V8) - exotic, high quality, luxury, not as performant, great dealer network
7) Jag F-type - great looking, great luxury, auto only, now coupe/conv options

Funny part, the GTS in my opinion has a better interior than many of the above, like the look better than all (except maybe the Aston), better performance than all the above. But no auto/conv options is not good. reputation of scary to drive is not good. reputation of poor street car is not good. Dealer network is not good. Basically, it makes it very hard on itself to compete with anyone that does not already love the history/have knowledge of the Viper.

So, what Market does it own? The one that is not acceptable in todays market? Thus it must change its perceptions in the marketing side. I actually feel the product already has changed towards the right direction. But like I say, just go to a dealer for each of the above cars (I have recently) and walk through the entire experience. You will be blown away on the variations in product, dealer network, etc. The problem is not the product (other than no options for auto and conv), but everything surrounding it.

I am sure I am missing some, but just look at that list for a moment. If you were not a fanatic of any particular car, but had the interest of getting the best car in that price segment, which do you choose? In particular, if you are in your 30's or 40's, which do you choose? I mention that because that is the prime market to keep the car sustainable.

[VENOM V]

This is an interesting debate, but I think some are overthinking this. I think it's simple: Buyers now have the flexibility to choose whatever they want. A stripped SRT (which is not really stripped, it has the amenities that all cars of the current era in this price range should), a TA that really bulls-eyed the hardcore track package for a reasonable price, or a more loaded GTS. Just buy the one you want, and let others choose the one that fits them. If none of them appeal to you, then that's fine, just don't buy one or wait until they do offer a model for you (convertible, ACR, Etc.). But honestly, if you really love the car, it shouldn't be hard to make the compromise of choosing the model and options that most fits what you're looking for.

SRT made mistakes in marketing the initial car yes, but they've really made positive strides with the TA launch. I see nearly universal praise of it, even the media is coming around. And I see more and more previous-gen Viper owners realizing that the Gen V did keep it's snake soul. Anyone that's driven one on the track knows this.

Sure, we'll see more bashing in media, but the Viper will never be the automotive press's darling. It's a rebel of a sportscar and takes no prisoners on the road course. The Viper's not for everyone, which is fine because I prefer owning a rare machine rather than a cookie-cutter Porsche, GT-R or Corvette. For a small segment of the population like most people on this site, the Viper is a freakin' home run dream machine.

[05Commemorative]

This is an interesting debate, but I think some are overthinking this. I think it's simple: Buyers now have the flexibility to choose whatever they want. A stripped SRT (which is not really stripped, it has the amenities that all cars of the current era in this price range should), a TA that really bulls-eyed the hardcore track package for a reasonable price, or a more loaded GTS. Just buy the one you want, and let others choose the one that fits them. If none of them appeal to you, then that's fine, just don't buy one or wait until they do offer a model for you (convertible, ACR, Etc.). But honestly, if you really love the car, it shouldn't be hard to make the compromise of choosing the model and options that most fits what you're looking for.

SRT made mistakes in marketing the initial car yes, but they've really made positive strides with the TA launch. I see nearly universal praise of it, even the media is coming around. And I see more and more previous-gen Viper owners realizing that the Gen V did keep it's snake soul. Anyone that's driven one on the track knows this.

Sure, we'll see more bashing in media, but the Viper will never be the automotive press's darling. It's a rebel of a sportscar and takes no prisoners on the road course. The Viper's not for everyone, which is fine because I prefer owning a rare machine rather than a cookie-cutter Porsche, GT-R or Corvette. For a small segment of the population like most people on this site, the Viper is a freakin' home run dream machine.

I mostly agree with you, but it depends if taking the sellers or buyers point of view. The seller never wants the consumer to "wait" for the model they want as they are too fickle and will buy the next items that satisfies them.

As for me as the buyer, I want more "basic" options that already exist today. For example:
1) I don't think the base SRT is worth $100k with cloth seats and missing leather. Just not competitive vs the cars I listed above.
2) odd no longer a "track pack" option for the SRT but agree with being included as std on GTS
3) odd I have to have a painted taillight surround on a GTS (luckily added matching color option for 14)
4) why can't I get the TA optional brakes on a GTS or any of the bits if willing to pay for it. If GTS is top dog, then let it be.

the oddest thing to me is the excitement around the TA which is a blend of the SRT and GTS with slight mods and no options. press is good because finally a sorted out car (proper alignment, etc) that didn't exist on prior tests cars.

So, while I agree great progress is happening, still a good ways to go.

I will give you a great buyer example. I would like the following car: (can't buy it today from factory)
1) launch edition blue/white stripes
2) T/A brake and suspension package
3) track pack wheels (machine faces versions)
4) color matched tail light bezel
5) T/A aero but painted to match car
6) carbon interior bits

Turns out, I can't order this car (ie, I can't buy what I want today) even though everything I mention are factory parts. (Jag, Porsche don't seem to have this issue)

In the beginning, I was all about the different models as I thought the flexibility was great. Now, I have changed my tune and prefer it follow true "hand built" motto of options. Let the user choose from the base model and add any of the following as options:
1) two vent hood
2) track attack or ta brakes
3) adjustable suspension
4) tail light surround color options
5) leather interior options
6) speaker options
7) wheel options
8) tire options
9) stripe options

again, all the parts already exist

[Troublemaker]

I mostly agree with you, but it depends if taking the sellers or buyers point of view. The seller never wants the consumer to "wait" for the model they want as they are too fickle and will buy the next items that satisfies them.

As for me as the buyer, I want more "basic" options that already exist today. For example:
1) I don't think the base SRT is worth $100k with cloth seats and missing leather. Just not competitive vs the cars I listed above.
2) odd no longer a "track pack" option for the SRT but agree with being included as std on GTS
3) odd I have to have a painted taillight surround on a GTS (luckily added matching color option for 14)
4) why can't I get the TA optional brakes on a GTS or any of the bits if willing to pay for it. If GTS is top dog, then let it be.

the oddest thing to me is the excitement around the TA which is a blend of the SRT and GTS with slight mods and no options. press is good because finally a sorted out car (proper alignment, etc) that didn't exist on prior tests cars.

So, while I agree great progress is happening, still a good ways to go.

I will give you a great buyer example. I would like the following car: (can't buy it today from factory)
1) launch edition blue/white stripes
2) T/A brake and suspension package
3) track pack wheels (machine faces versions)
4) color matched tail light bezel
5) T/A aero but painted to match car
6) carbon interior bits

Turns out, I can't order this car (ie, I can't buy what I want today) even though everything I mention are factory parts. (Jag, Porsche don't seem to have this issue)

In the beginning, I was all about the different models as I thought the flexibility was great. Now, I have changed my tune and prefer it follow true "hand built" motto of options. Let the user choose from the base model and add any of the following as options:
1) two vent hood
2) track attack or ta brakes
3) adjustable suspension
4) tail light surround color options
5) leather interior options
6) speaker options
7) wheel options
8) tire options
9) stripe options

again, all the parts already exist

It sounds like you and I are looking for the same car. You post above, although worded much more eloquently than mine, is exactly what I have said in numerous threads. Offer a stripped down nothing car and let the buyer build exactly what he wants.

[Russ Oasis]

OK, I'll give this one more stab. I think I realize where others may disagree with me now. BUT...here is where I'm coming from: Cars like the Viper (we'll include Porsche 911, the GTR, Ferraris, and the Corvette) are intended to be the closest things to street legal race cars. This is where, while nice, the Aston Martin (I own one) doesn't compare, and same with the Jag. They are sporty GT touring cars. The other track cars listed above are all about "which one is closest to a flat out race car but can still be driven on the street." In that regard, VIPER SHOULD WIN. You know all the scary things that the car magazines squawk about? It's because RACE CARS DON'T HAVE NANNY SAFETY NETS like street cars do. Race cars don't under steer (push) like street cars do. Race cars need to be treated with respect because you have to pay attention and be all over them all the time. If you want a car that's easy to drive on the track at 7/10's, then get the Audi or a GTR. But if you are unwilling to compromise and want the car that is the closest to a RACE CAR, then the Viper is for you. Now, to relate this back to my earlier points, I believe that SRT should market the car in that way. Maybe with a commercial that has a baby in the driver's seat getting a ticket (like the E-Trade baby), and the voice-over says "The 2014 Viper, not a car for babies." I was in advertising and marketing for 12 years, Read the Ries and Trout book and you'll understand where I come from on a marketing basis. Finally, for me, I could give a crap about the leather or the seats or the radio. If the car was faster around the track than any other car and it looks great...that's the ONLY thing I care about. I realize that there are others who don't feel that way...Hopefully, most of them are buying Ferraris to impress girls.

[Policy Limits]

Another marketing dynamic: service. Ferrari dealers work on Ferrari's & Lamborghini Dealers work on Lamborghini's. Dodge & Chrysler dealers work on Darts. most snake owners wouldn't trust a dealer to put air in their tires but would trust Tator's, Mark at Woodhouse. Problem if you're in the other 48 States. So marketing decided they'd have SRT style dealerships which was a Dodge Chrysler dealer paying $25k and getting additional tech training. Insufficient on the consumer confidence end IMO as these guys still primarily service caravans and darts. They need SRT exclusive dealerships to not only bring in new folks to the brand but to also keep the ones in that they have. What good is a factory warranty you are afraid to utilize? SRT dealers as I suggest wouldn't be limited to viper as all SRT vehicles like the Jeep GC would be welcome but the snake would just be the flagship. It would have a more performance based theme and would instill confidence in the consumer, instead of fear.

[Newport Viper]

I think you will see about 80ish Viper "dealers" as time goes by. I just don't see alot of dealers hanging around for the long haul. Even with the $25k they had to pony up.

[Viktimize]

IMHO you are far better off with the MCS or Penske shocks for both street or track. They also allow you to adjust ride height.

Is there a new version of MCS out for the Gen5 now? I've never seen anything aftermarket that can make adjustments like ride height and firmness right from the drivers seat? Either way, if I just dropped 100k on a car, why should I have to go spend another 5-6k on suspension stuff now, instead of just being able to order that option from the factory? It just doesn't make sense to me, the SRT is supposed to be more stripped down for someone that hits the track a lot, but you can't get the adjustable suspension that makes it more drivable to and from the track.

[RAY W]

Russ, a lot of the new guys don't get that when the Viper came out there were other choices just like today. Expensive, fast Ferrari's,
turbo Porsche's and every option imaginable Corvette's. Yet we bought Vipers that had nothing but a big motor and tires. Maybe because they reminded us of our early 70's muscle cars. Who needed air conditioning. I need more tire smoking.

I want a car that the Vette buyers are afraid of. That steals the thunder from the exotics. A 750hp uncontrollable monster that chases down any car while still having a factory warranty.

The market has spoken. Ferrari and Porsche guys won't be caught dead in one, much less go to Dodge Dealership. The GM guys are waiting for their new baby for 70K. We true loyalist and buyers of multiple Vipers feel like Dodge has forgotten how they got here.

[KRATEDISEASE]

They only sold 1/2 made because the guys who want the car can't afford it & the consumer who has that kind of coin doesn't want it (what a pickle). It's not the economy, as the aventador sold out before made and with 100k premium. The marketing also did play some role, the test car that literally fell apart, launch delays, poor reviews, etc.

But hey, apparently it's nothing new as there are 4-6 year old snakes that are still "new" cars that never sold. So SRT is probably used to it, though I doubt it's to this extent. For what 100-135 k gets you around the board, it makes competition very intense. There's the other outstanding NEW cars that price like Lotus, Maserati, Porsche, GTR, and then there's all the pre owned cars that you can get for that price like Bentley, Ferrari Lambo. Tough tough market.

People want that refined flappy paddle put my chai in my cup holder crap. Though the Gen V has a touch of refinement , it's still a ballsy street legal race car. Ill bet it's the only production car today that comes with side exhaust pipes and exclusively comes with a V10 with a standard manual transmission. Bring on soul and leave the video game at home :)

Policy Limits.....Sounds like you are soon going to trade in your Viper from the above comments. I know that you get bored of your cars fairly quickly from your new car turnover history. Let me know when when you are bored of your GTS. I will take it off your hands as a favor. I still have my 17 year old 1997 GTS and have never bored of it. I keep my cars (if I can ) forever or until they are just too expensive to keep/maintain. I am waiting on you Sir for when you are ready to unload the GTS.

Kratey

[05Commemorative]

Russ, a lot of the new guys don't get that when the Viper came out there were other choices just like today. Expensive, fast Ferrari's,
turbo Porsche's and every option imaginable Corvette's. Yet we bought Vipers that had nothing but a big motor and tires. Maybe because they reminded us of our early 70's muscle cars. Who needed air conditioning. I need more tire smoking.

I want a car that the Vette buyers are afraid of. That steals the thunder from the exotics. A 750hp uncontrollable monster that chases down any car while still having a factory warranty.

The market has spoken. Ferrari and Porsche guys won't be caught dead in one, much less go to Dodge Dealership. The GM guys are waiting for their new baby for 70K. We true loyalist and buyers of multiple Vipers feel like Dodge has forgotten how they got here.
This is a pure silly statement. The Viper in the beginning had the segment to itself. There was really no high-end vette and was never competing w/Ferrari's. In that original $70k range, there was no competition, thus you could get away with no windows, etc. Having 400hp and a decent look was enough. Today, there is real competition and it is not enough anymore.

Sadly, you are making a statement that Dodge/SRT is forgetting its loyal buyers. How could this be further from the truth when the car's design went back to its roots, has much more power, handling, tech, and higher quality. How in the world did they forget the loyalist. In fact, those loyalist should be buying the cars now in droves and parking their prior models as the new one is just that much better. IF you have driven one, you already know that.

If you want to remember early 70's muscle cars and are old enough to do so, you have already aged yourself and proves my point, you can't build a new car today targeting the 60+ crowd. You build it for the 30's/40's buyers (which most were for original Vipers). Again, I stress Expectations are higher today. If you don't agree, you were never in the market to lay down $100k anyways. Just keep your Gen1/2, tell yourself it was a better car and call it a day. OR, be the loyal Viper guy you say you are and pony up the $$$ for a new one. But don't complain that the car has gotten nicer in every way and then suggest your needs were not being met. silly

[05Commemorative]

Is there a new version of MCS out for the Gen5 now? I've never seen anything aftermarket that can make adjustments like ride height and firmness right from the drivers seat? Either way, if I just dropped 100k on a car, why should I have to go spend another 5-6k on suspension stuff now, instead of just being able to order that option from the factory? It just doesn't make sense to me, the SRT is supposed to be more stripped down for someone that hits the track a lot, but you can't get the adjustable suspension that makes it more drivable to and from the track.

I actually think the SRT model is a bit confusing. You are right initially they suggested it to be the track car, but really not the case. If so, you could order the track pack for the car (you can't anymore). Also, the SRT model was slower on the track vs the GTS. I agree with your points though. I think the reality is the SRT is simply the lower priced model. no more complex than that

[Policy Limits]

Kratey- I get bored fast & variety is the spice of life. :)

I'd keep it at least a year just on principal. With so much cool stuff coming out I want to experience them all.

[RAY W]

Dear 05, Were you a buyer in 1992-93 ? If so you would know that the Viper was 56K and that Chevrolet was offering a car called the ZR1 for 60K. The ZR1 had every option known to man and 5 more hp. How did Dodge sell even one Viper ? Then except for the F50 no Ferrari could come close to a Viper in performance. Porsche Turbos were close but no cigar.

The only competion in the old Vipers' segment today is the "Atom". There is no other raw car out there. Not even the T/A. Loyalist are not buying them because we didn't ask for for junk like power everything and electronics. We want a 750hp ass kicker. If we have to put up with the fluff to get the 750hp we will, but we won't pay for 640hp almost a Viper.

My friend it's the 55-65 year olds that have the 100-150K to spend on cars. And when I was 35 it took something really special like a 1995 Viper to make me dump my 80K 928 Porsche GT. Today money for money the new Viper is not enough for me to write the check. Yes I have driven one and I have owned 1995,1998,2000,2003,2004 and 2008. All bought new. Worst mistake I made was selling the 2008 before ordering a 2013.

[Policy Limits]

I think it's hysterical how the traditional guys think that the answer is throwing more horsepower at it. Factors such as suspension and engineering are as important as power. Lotus is a great example.

The Gen V isn't the coolest car I've ever owned, but it's one of them.

[ViperSmith]

I think it's hysterical how the traditional guys think that the answer is throwing more horsepower at it. Factors such as suspension and engineering are as important as power. Lotus is a great example.

The Gen V isn't the coolest car I've ever owned, but it's one of them.
The Z07 was running neck and neck last year with the ZR1 and it has a 160HP deficit.

HP isn't the silver bullet it once was.

[KRATEDISEASE]

Kratey- I get bored fast & variety is the spice of life. :)

I'd keep it at least a year just on principal. With so much cool stuff coming out I want to experience them all.

Totally respect and understand fully. Not knocking you, I am just JEALOUS of all the cars you have had and would be honored to take your "sloppy seconds".

I am a dumpster diver myself. One mans used car is another mans pride and joy.

[Policy Limits]

Ha. New stuff coming out worthy of my test drive: the 991 Targa, Supra Replacement, and of course, the Huracan.

When you're dead, you're dead for a LONG time.

[VENOM V]

The Z07 was running neck and neck last year with the ZR1 and it has a 160HP deficit.

HP isn't the silver bullet it once was.

Totally agree. My view is that HP is for bragging rights, bench racing, and drag racing. Nothing wrong with any of those but they are not really the Viper's focus. Lap times is what matter to me because they are the best measure of a true sports car - the blend of acceleration, handling, aerodynamics and braking.

Two weeks ago I drove against a bunch of pumped out Cadillac CTS-Vs on the track. They were competing in the Cadillac Challenge, a time trial put on by Speed Ventures. Most of them came in on trailers, most had between 700 and 850 RWHP (that's 1,000 BHP!!!), but yet I was faster than at least half of them. These cars were modded to the max, with big dollars, running on Hoosiers and slicks. My Viper was 100% stock, on MPSC tires that wouldn't bite in the cold weather, and I only had about 2/3 the HP of the average Cad. And they couldn't come close to the Viper Comp Coupes with much less HP that were running 10 seconds per lap faster than them. So there you go, HP aint everything when it comes to a true sports car.

[VENOM V]

OK, I'll give this one more stab. I think I realize where others may disagree with me now. BUT...here is where I'm coming from: Cars like the Viper (we'll include Porsche 911, the GTR, Ferraris, and the Corvette) are intended to be the closest things to street legal race cars. This is where, while nice, the Aston Martin (I own one) doesn't compare, and same with the Jag. They are sporty GT touring cars. The other track cars listed above are all about "which one is closest to a flat out race car but can still be driven on the street." In that regard, VIPER SHOULD WIN. You know all the scary things that the car magazines squawk about? It's because RACE CARS DON'T HAVE NANNY SAFETY NETS like street cars do. Race cars don't under steer (push) like street cars do. Race cars need to be treated with respect because you have to pay attention and be all over them all the time. If you want a car that's easy to drive on the track at 7/10's, then get the Audi or a GTR. But if you are unwilling to compromise and want the car that is the closest to a RACE CAR, then the Viper is for you. Now, to relate this back to my earlier points, I believe that SRT should market the car in that way. Maybe with a commercial that has a baby in the driver's seat getting a ticket (like the E-Trade baby), and the voice-over says "The 2014 Viper, not a car for babies." I was in advertising and marketing for 12 years, Read the Ries and Trout book and you'll understand where I come from on a marketing basis. Finally, for me, I could give a crap about the leather or the seats or the radio. If the car was faster around the track than any other car and it looks great...that's the ONLY thing I care about. I realize that there are others who don't feel that way...Hopefully, most of them are buying Ferraris to impress girls.

Russ, we may not agree 100%, but I completely get where you're coming from. Before I bought my Viper, it was important to me that it was a dual-purpose wine-country cruiser and track bruiser. But now that I've owned it and tracked it, I care less and less about amenities and more and more about it kicking ass on the road course! Love the Viper's soul, wouldn't want it to change it's character one bit. It is the only production car that is truely a race car that you can drive on the street. The others are street cars that you can drive on the track. However, I recognize that most Viper owners are not as track-obsessed as us, so in order to survive it needs to appeal to a variety of people.

What's interesting about the TA is that it isn't that much faster than the GTS or SRT on the road course, but it's marketing is aimed at that race car soul. This underscores how good marketing will sell cars. I would imagine that many are enticed by reading about the TA, but then can choose the Viper that's best for them. The less expensive SRT or the loaded GTS, but they all have the same race car soul. I would like to read that book, you have my curiosity.

[mnc2886]

The Z07 was running neck and neck last year with the ZR1 and it has a 160HP deficit.

HP isn't the silver bullet it once was.

True story. I think if SRT could find a way to shave off 150-200 lbs from the Track-pak car (3297 lbs), the Viper might be untouched on the track until the hyper cars take a swing. Especially if the rumored 1500 lb downforce of the up coming ACR comes to fruition. You'd see a 1:30 at Laguna if the Trofeos can match the MPSC performance.

[RAY W]

If nothing else is working and people who have bought Vipers in the past want more hp. What's the harm? We're putting up with the stuff we didn't ask for. If you think a 650hp ACR for 140,000K is going to do it. Prepare to be disappointed again.

[XSnake]

If nothing else is working and people who have bought Vipers in the past want more hp. What's the harm? We're putting up with the stuff we didn't ask for. If you think a 650hp ACR for 140,000K is going to do it. Prepare to be disappointed again.
If you think you are going to be able to get an ACR for $140k prepare to be disappointed

[mnc2886]

If you think you are going to be able to get an ACR for $140k prepare to be disappointed

If SRT charges more, they will be disappointed.

[XSnake]

If SRT charges more, they will be disappointed.

Everyone wants a hypercar for the price of a vette. It isn't going to happen.

[Troublemaker]

I honestly think the ACR should be under $140,000. To me all it should end up being is an SRT stripped down to almost nothing, with some high end MCS shocks, whatever aero works, CC brakes and a higher RPM limit.

[VENOM V]

I honestly think the ACR should be under $140,000. To me all it should end up being is an SRT stripped down to almost nothing, with some high end MCS shocks, whatever aero works, CC brakes and a higher RPM limit.

I think so too. If there are high-dollar options, so be it. But the base ACR should be a low-option car but with serious suspension, aero and brakes, and should start under $140K.

On the marketing front, the TA appears to have been a home run. Too early to say for sure, but so far nearly unamomous praise from the media and Viper nation alike. SRT is learning, let's hope 2014 is a good year for Viper sales so we can have an ACR.

[RAY W]

Everyone wants a hypercar for the price of a vette. It isn't going to happen.

I don't want a hypercar Viper. That's the problem now. It's already overdone. As far as the ACR is concerned I am afraid it's just going to be more of the same add-on carbon fiber bits and diff cooler. You track guys would be better off just getting a ACR-X.

[Policy Limits]

Ill bet less than 10% of owners of all gen's track their cars. I like having a street legal race car for the road. Speculative as to what the next ACR will entail. What might help SRT ( they occasionally troll these sites ) is instead of telling them what they are doing wrong, to tell them what they are doing right (as I have done ie the book & flag) so they continue doing those things. As far as what should be done moving forward, the constructive criticism that is given is helpful I'm sure as well.

I also think that if viper loyalists truly love the car and the brand, then they need to do their part, as I have done, and show real support by purchasing the new, and best generation snake.

[RAY W]

Policy you are right about buying the best Viper made to date. I would want a loaded SRT with all the trimmings but at 130K for the car and the possibility that something better could be coming out I wouldn't get one now. I know there is no way that SRT will add another 50 or 100hp as that would further add to the demise of the 2013-14's still on dealers lots.

[Policy Limits]

Ray no better time to pull the trigger than right now in the dead of winter. Plus, the deals on leftovers are below MSRP, even some below invoice. Hope this helps.

[05Commemorative]

Dear 05, Were you a buyer in 1992-93 ? If so you would know that the Viper was 56K and that Chevrolet was offering a car called the ZR1 for 60K. The ZR1 had every option known to man and 5 more hp. How did Dodge sell even one Viper ? Then except for the F50 no Ferrari could come close to a Viper in performance. Porsche Turbos were close but no cigar.

The only competion in the old Vipers' segment today is the "Atom". There is no other raw car out there. Not even the T/A. Loyalist are not buying them because we didn't ask for for junk like power everything and electronics. We want a 750hp ass kicker. If we have to put up with the fluff to get the 750hp we will, but we won't pay for 640hp almost a Viper.

My friend it's the 55-65 year olds that have the 100-150K to spend on cars. And when I was 35 it took something really special like a 1995 Viper to make me dump my 80K 928 Porsche GT. Today money for money the new Viper is not enough for me to write the check. Yes I have driven one and I have owned 1995,1998,2000,2003,2004 and 2008. All bought new. Worst mistake I made was selling the 2008 before ordering a 2013.
Yep, I was. right out of school. In fact had a ZR1 you mention (total crap of a car and had the same problem of today, looked like other vettes, just fatter in back) and got a 65 corvette instead. Have had a 65 AC cobra, 65 GTO, 66 442. I get the rawness you crave. I am just saying it is not enough to sell anymore. totally disagree with you on the 55-65 age group. Go to your typical track day and notice typically dominated in attendance by 911's and the majority are in their 40's. Ask why is that? They are clearly into tracking their cars, they want quality, they want to drive to and from the track, etc. In many ways, the 911 is the perfect example of a car that embraces its roots, but has evolved as well so that it is just as relevant today as it was 40yrs ago (not just 20). Time is moving ahead rather we like it or not and taste do change. No doubt I loved that 65 corvette and Cobra. Easy to work on, sound, looks, raw, etc. Reality though is the performance, quality, comfort, etc is so much better in all new cars today and why in the world would anyone settle for anything less in this price range? If one is fixated with that rawness, then go buy a used older one. If I had sold a 2008 to get a 13, I would be thinking it was one of the best decisions. Better car in every way and since you couldn't really modify the 08, you still can't on the 13, so what is the big deal. better car in all other aspects.

And I will echo what many have said, HP is not and should not be king for the car. Handling, performance, feel, looks, (ie, the whole package) is what is important. For those reasons, when the conv comes out, I will sell my Gen3 and move to the better car. Heck, I am tempted now, I am just not ready to give up the conv experience just yet. If I had a prior gen coupe (unless had an ACR waiting for the next one), it would be a no-brainer (other than the $$ involved).

[RAY W]

Yeah, I think a convertible would do it for me too. I was able to do some mods on the 2008 with the aftermarket pcm. Got it to 590 rwhp. A offroad pcm for the gen V would also help move me along.

[Viktimize]

Dear 05, Were you a buyer in 1992-93 ? If so you would know that the Viper was 56K and that Chevrolet was offering a car called the ZR1 for 60K. The ZR1 had every option known to man and 5 more hp. How did Dodge sell even one Viper ? Then except for the F50 no Ferrari could come close to a Viper in performance. Porsche Turbos were close but no cigar.

The only competion in the old Vipers' segment today is the "Atom". There is no other raw car out there. Not even the T/A. Loyalist are not buying them because we didn't ask for for junk like power everything and electronics. We want a 750hp ass kicker. If we have to put up with the fluff to get the 750hp we will, but we won't pay for 640hp almost a Viper.

My friend it's the 55-65 year olds that have the 100-150K to spend on cars. And when I was 35 it took something really special like a 1995 Viper to make me dump my 80K 928 Porsche GT. Today money for money the new Viper is not enough for me to write the check. Yes I have driven one and I have owned 1995,1998,2000,2003,2004 and 2008. All bought new. Worst mistake I made was selling the 2008 before ordering a 2013.

The only problem with that marketing mentality, is that after you sell 10 cars to these so called "loyalists", where do you go from there? You just spent a pile of money on R&D and recreating a new car, all just to make a car to appease these loyalists but that nobody else wants.

[Policy Limits]

Yup they targeted exotic cross over guys thinking they had the resources. And a handful of us bit. But a handful leaves lots of unsold inventory.

[ViperSmith]

Yup they targeted exotic cross over guys thinking they had the resources. And a handful of us bit. But a handful leaves lots of unsold inventory.

I'd love to know how many canceled orders out of frustration and never looked at the cars again.

I think we all could have waited just fine, but you have to set expectations better. 2 year wait for a spyder 458, so people are used to waiting for what they want - but again - expectations are managed.

[Policy Limits]

I'm one. After 1/2 of waiting I threw in the towel & purchased a dealer car. It's not a Ferrari; it only takes three days to make one of these.

[ViperSmith]

I'm one. After 1/2 of waiting I threw in the towel & purchased a dealer car. It's not a Ferrari; it only takes three days to make one of these.

Well as did I, but we ended up buying one - but how many just said f'it and walked away completely.

[Troublemaker]

The only problem with that marketing mentality, is that after you sell 10 cars to these so called "loyalists", where do you go from there? You just spent a pile of money on R&D and recreating a new car, all just to make a car to appease these loyalists but that nobody else wants.

The loyalists are all still out there, 1000s of them. Unfortunately they aren't who this car was targeted at. What they have done is created a car that "exclusive" buying types were supposed to be drawn to. Maybe they would have if the initial launch of the car wasn't so flub breed. I am in the hopes that they will finally equip the car the way the "loyalists" want, you don't have to hope to lure them over, they are already waiting. They need to offer one model, a bare bones nothing and make everything an option, a reasonable option, not $5,000 stripes. The car is great in stock form, just not what I would ever consider buying. They also have hampered the motor so much with the neutering ECM that anybody outside of a track rat doesn't give it a second look as a race car. Tinkerers have started to look elsewhere, I know I have and the Gen5 Viper is the car I wanted to purchase. It's still not off my radar, but I'm sitting back and waiting to see what SRT has up its sleeve.

I purchased a 96 because it was always the Viper to own in my eyes. I have already dumped enough into it that I could have made two years worth of payments on the 5. I love the fact I can do anything I want to the car, even a 4/5 top end. That was another thing SRT could have made money on, a conversion for the earlier Gens which an aftermarket company did first. There is a lot of room for improvement and it looks easy from the outside since the car was so well done from the factory. The new breed of buyers got a wonderful block of ice, now it's time to remove everything that the "loyalists" don't want and let our Viper emerge.

[Viktimize]

Yup they targeted exotic cross over guys thinking they had the resources. And a handful of us bit. But a handful leaves lots of unsold inventory.

Who really knows? All of us potential Gen5 customers like to think that we are the average consumer that is considering the car, which isn't the case obviously. I know all the reasons that I want a Gen5, and because of those reasons the Gen5 is the only new car that fits the bill on the market. I would think my reasoning is pretty well shared among many others, but I can't say for sure that SRT had someone like me in mind when they determined their target demographic for sales?

I want a car that has enough jam in stock form to beat most things I will run into on the street. Turns heads. has all the creature comforts like nice stereo, A/C, leather interior, etc. Holds it's own on the track, yet still very enjoyable for leisure cruises and road trips. And doesn't cost a first born child. Only options with all that considered is either the Viper or Vette. But I hate the idea of seeing the same car on every other street corner, so the Vette is out. Sure I can pick up an SRT for 100k, but I am not dropping that kind of money and not getting the adjustable suspension that makes the car so much more of a cross over between track and street. I could swing the extra few grand to add it as an option, but the extra 30k to move up to a GTS just for the adjustable suspension is out of the question. If I could afford to just drop 30k without thinking about it or batting an eye, chances are my financial situation would allow me to be looking at Lambo instead, and the Viper wouldn't even be on my radar.

[ViperSmith]

The loyalists are all still out there, 1000s of them. Unfortunately they aren't who this car was targeted at. What they have done is created a car that "exclusive" buying types were supposed to be drawn to. I am in the hopes that they will finally equip the car the way the "loyalists" want. They need to offer one model, a bare bones nothing and make everything an option, a reasonable option, not $5,000 stripes. The car is great in stock form, just not what I would ever consider buying. They also have hampered the motor so much with the neutering ECM that anybody outside of a track rat doesn't give it a second look as a race car. Tinkerers have started to look elsewhere, I know I have and the Gen5 Viper is the car I wanted to purchase. It's still not off my radar, but I'm sitting back and waiting to see what SRT has up its sleeve.

I must be missing something from the point you are hitting at.

What is in a stock, no-option SRT that "misses the mark" of what loyalist would want?

[Viktimize]

The loyalists are all still out there, 1000s of them. Unfortunately they aren't who this car was targeted at. What they have done is created a car that "exclusive" buying types were supposed to be drawn to. I am in the hopes that they will finally equip the car the way the "loyalists" want. They need to offer one model, a bare bones nothing and make everything an option, a reasonable option, not $5,000 stripes. The car is great in stock form, just not what I would ever consider buying. They also have hampered the motor so much with the neutering ECM that anybody outside of a track rat doesn't give it a second look as a race car. Tinkerers have started to look elsewhere, I know I have and the Gen5 Viper is the car I wanted to purchase. It's still not off my radar, but I'm sitting back and waiting to see what SRT has up its sleeve.

The way the build process is for these cars, I don't see why they couldn't just offer a complete stripper model for guys like you? Like someone else mentioned, I think starting with an absolute base model and making everything a single option with no packages would probably be the best for sales. It is the only to make everybody happy. And it allows guys like me who are on the fence because of pricing, get into the car with just the options we want.

[Viktimize]

I must be missing something from the point you are hitting at.

What is in a stock, no-option SRT that "misses the mark" of what loyalist would want?

I'm guessing he would want no A/C or stereo, cloth interior, no power options, etc. ?? That's the way the original car was.

[VENOM V]

The loyalists are all still out there, 1000s of them. Unfortunately they aren't who this car was targeted at. What they have done is created a car that "exclusive" buying types were supposed to be drawn to. Maybe they would have if the initial launch of the car wasn't so flub breed. I am in the hopes that they will finally equip the car the way the "loyalists" want, you don't have to hope to lure them over, they are already waiting. They need to offer one model, a bare bones nothing and make everything an option, a reasonable option, not $5,000 stripes. The car is great in stock form, just not what I would ever consider buying. They also have hampered the motor so much with the neutering ECM that anybody outside of a track rat doesn't give it a second look as a race car. Tinkerers have started to look elsewhere, I know I have and the Gen5 Viper is the car I wanted to purchase. It's still not off my radar, but I'm sitting back and waiting to see what SRT has up its sleeve.

I purchased a 96 because it was always the Viper to own in my eyes. I have already dumped enough into it that I could have made two years worth of payments on the 5. I love the fact I can do anything I want to the car, even a 4/5 top end. That was another thing SRT could have made money on, a conversion for the earlier Gens which an aftermarket company did first. There is a lot of room for improvement and it looks easy from the outside since the car was so well done from the factory. The new breed of buyers got a wonderful block of ice, now it's time to remove everything that the "loyalists" don't want and let our Viper emerge.

I don't know Troublemaker, this reminds me of someone that's staring at a supermodel and decides to reject her because she has a freckle out of place. Just being honest with you, I think your expectations are unrealistic in today's marketplace. If I love something enough, I'm willing to compromise on the small stuff. A base model SRT is darned close to what you describe, in my opinion. You have a point that the locked ECUs drives away the tinkerers, but this car really doesn't need much tinkering. Those that want to tinker are better off buying a C7 or something. I've done tons of mods to my Camaro, but don't feel compelled to with the Viper because it is so damned remarkable on the road course stock.

[Troublemaker]

I must be missing something from the point you are hitting at.

What is in a stock, no-option SRT that "misses the mark" of what loyalist would want?

Unfortunately the stock car is more than I want to buy, I'm not interested in any of the interior fluff that comes on the car, the wheels and tires are something i have no interest in at all. I want the option to order the car exactly the way i want it, not the way the factory chose to option it. Its a hand built car, that should be an easy task. And the single biggest reason I will not be in a Gen5 is that the B&W was only made in a GTS.

[Troublemaker]

I don't know Troublemaker, this reminds me of someone that's staring at a supermodel and decides to reject her because she has a freckle out of place. Just being honest with you, I think your expectations are unrealistic in today's marketplace. If I love something enough, I'm willing to compromise on the small stuff. A base model SRT is darned close to what you describe, in my opinion. You have a point that the locked ECUs drives away the tinkerers, but this car really doesn't need much tinkering. Those that want to tinker are better off buying a C7 or something. I've done tons of mods to my Camaro, but don't feel compelled to with the Viper because it is so damned remarkable on the road course stock.

I understand what you are saying, and agree from a certain perspective. I am not paying extra for all the extras, A/C might make the cut. I realize the car isn't what I want at this point. Somebody above mentioned that the 55-65 year old guys are the ones with the resources to purchase it, that is a weird assumption and wrong on several accounts but maybe the current build of the cars is geared more toward that buyer.

I'm glad you guys are happy with your car, and hopefully someday I can join the club. Until then I will settle for my old car.

[ViperSmith]

Unfortunately the stock car is more than I want to buy, I'm not interested in any of the interior fluff that comes on the car, the wheels and tires are something i have no interest in at all. I want the option to order the car exactly the way i want it, not the way the factory chose to option it. Its a hand built car, that should be an easy task. And the single biggest reason I will not be in a Gen5 is that the B&W was only made in a GTS.

Well, then I am not really sure what you are looking for, because SRT isn't going to build the 1992 car all over again. I think Ariel Atom fills that niche of bare bones racer at this point.

If the base SRT is too much for you, then I really just don't understand what you want - you are being unrealistic, IMHO. It just isn't where the rest of the car market is.

(and please don't construe it as being a personal attack)

[XSnake]

I don't want a hypercar Viper. That's the problem now. It's already overdone. As far as the ACR is concerned I am afraid it's just going to be more of the same add-on carbon fiber bits and diff cooler. You track guys would be better off just getting a ACR-X.

Everyone has been asking for more HP, more Carbon Fiber, Ceramic Brakes, and paddles (not everyone on the paddles). Those are not cheap items and the price is going to reflect that

[Troublemaker]

Well, then I am not really sure what you are looking for, because SRT isn't going to build the 1992 car all over again. I think Ariel Atom fills that niche of bare bones racer at this point.

If the base SRT is too much for you, then I really just don't understand what you want - you are being unrealistic, IMHO. It just isn't where the rest of the car market is.

(and please don't construe it as being a personal attack)

My skin is way to thick to be upset by a few comments. You might be right, you might not. I am trying to like the car as is, but a stripped down car at a reasonable price is what I am looking for. Maybe it is unrealistic, but I figured a factory that basically builds cars one at a time by hand could build whatever was ordered. It's cool, the right toy will eventually come along.


I don't know Troublemaker, this reminds me of someone that's staring at a supermodel and decides to reject her because she has a freckle out of place.

No, that would be the ones complaining about body gaps. I'm thinking more along the lines of one that is almost as good looking, but doesn't need to have a lot of money spent on her.

[Policy Limits]

Who really knows? All of us potential Gen5 customers like to think that we are the average consumer that is considering the car, which isn't the case obviously. I know all the reasons that I want a Gen5, and because of those reasons the Gen5 is the only new car that fits the bill on the market. I would think my reasoning is pretty well shared among many others, but I can't say for sure that SRT had someone like me in mind when they determined their target demographic for sales?

I want a car that has enough jam in stock form to beat most things I will run into on the street. Turns heads. has all the creature comforts like nice stereo, A/C, leather interior, etc. Holds it's own on the track, yet still very enjoyable for leisure cruises and road trips. And doesn't cost a first born child. Only options with all that considered is either the Viper or Vette. But I hate the idea of seeing the same car on every other street corner, so the Vette is out. Sure I can pick up an SRT for 100k, but I am not dropping that kind of money and not getting the adjustable suspension that makes the car so much more of a cross over between track and street. I could swing the extra few grand to add it as an option, but the extra 30k to move up to a GTS just for the adjustable suspension is out of the question. If I could afford to just drop 30k without thinking about it or batting an eye, chances are my financial situation would allow me to be looking at Lambo instead, and the Viper wouldn't even be on my radar.
Get the TA! It's the perfect blend of SRT & GTS! I bet you could get one for 115k! It's the one I would buy hands down if I were still in the market now.

And 130k for a Lambo will only get you a seven year old model. Very outdated and now replaced.

[VENOM V]

Get the TA! It's the perfect blend of SRT & GTS! I bet you could get one for 115k! It's the one I would buy hands down if I were still in the market now.

And 130k for a Lambo will only get you a seven year old model. Very outdated and now replaced.

Gotta agree with Policy on this one, the TA is a damned sweet mix, just about perfect for what I would buy today.

[VENOM V]

No, that would be the ones complaining about body gaps. I'm thinking more along the lines of one that is almost as good looking, but doesn't need to have a lot of money spent on her.

LOL, good perspective.

[ViperSmith]

My skin is way to thick to be upset by a few comments. You might be right, you might not. I am trying to like the car as is, but a stripped down car at a reasonable price is what I am looking for. Maybe it is unrealistic, but I figured a factory that basically builds cars one at a time by hand could build whatever was ordered. It's cool, the right toy will eventually come along.



No, that would be the ones complaining about body gaps. I'm thinking more along the lines of one that is almost as good looking, but doesn't need to have a lot of money spent on her.

Even hand built needs economies of scale to make it a reasonable price. I am sure SRT would build you whatever you want, but it will be factors more than the $100,000 SRT ;)

[Troublemaker]

Even hand built needs economies of scale to make it a reasonable price. I am sure SRT would build you whatever you want, but it will be factors more than the $100,000 SRT ;)

This I can agree with.

[I Bin Therbefor]

Interesting dit-bit from Team Viper on some video or other that I can't find right now. 30% of Viper owners modify their Viper in some manner or other. I'm betting engine mods take first place with suspension mods in follow up position. Wonder what Woodhouse experiences? :confused:

[Policy Limits]

Woodhouse is busy with Belanger Header mods these days. Last I read Mark is up to eight sets.

[05Commemorative]

Interesting dit-bit from Team Viper on some video or other that I can't find right now. 30% of Viper owners modify their Viper in some manner or other. I'm betting engine mods take first place with suspension mods in follow up position. Wonder what Woodhouse experiences? :confused:
do you view exhaust as an engine mod? If so, then probably right

[Newport Viper]

My view is that HP is for bragging rights, bench racing, and drag racing and SELLING VIPERS

Fixed it for you. :)

I remember way back when the Viper came out with the nice round number of 400 HP. I WAS SOLD BABY! Just blown away! I was 23 and floored. It took me a couple years after that to get one but, it was just that nice round HP number that did it. I had my Mustang/Vette fix already by that time.

Then when the Viper hit 500HP... I had to have it! (When it hit 600HP the now ex-wife ;) wouldn't let me pull the trigger....)

So, I then waited... and waited.... and waited..... Bam 640 HP.... Blah. Nothing at all to sneeze at but.... blah.... almost getting behind in the times... Not worth the $$$ to upgrade in my book.

Now.... if the car would have hit at 700HP. I would have done everything I could to make it happen. (Vert of course)

I don't race. Couple auto crosses here and there. VOI here and there. Why would I need a 700 HP car?!











Cause man it's 700HP ............ from the factory! :monkeyleft:



Then when that 23 year old today sees it in a Mag/Rag and it has as much HP as the Lambo Aventador... it's on!

Especially, with it's 700 "affordable" HP with a Factory Warranty ...it's a done or, done deal in a few years!

It's not the motion of the Ocean (track times/suspension/seats that sells), it's whats large and in charge when you roll up!:t15197: :dude3:

[05Commemorative]

Yup they targeted exotic cross over guys thinking they had the resources. And a handful of us bit. But a handful leaves lots of unsold inventory.
I must say I disagree here. Just because the car has a nicer interior does not mean it targeted exotic cross over guys. I view it as the car need them to be competitive with everything else in the price range (and much below).

Folks, leather seats, door panels and dash are a requirement on $100k cars. More accurately, required to be competitive. Heck, that is true for $80k cars and above. Lets not call it "exotic" because it has them, but instead just say it is catching up.

I guess one could be a big fan of cheap looking plastics and hard vinyl... but that doesn't even exist in in pickups anymore.

I do agree with troublemaker of having a base car and then letting folks choose the options they want. I guess we could discuss what the base car is, but I thought the current SRT model with no options is the base car. if looking to lower the price below $99k, not sure what else you would take out of it. (stereo and AC?)

I do agree with

[05Commemorative]

Fixed it for you. :)

I remember way back when the Viper came out with the nice round number of 400 HP. I WAS SOLD BABY! Just blown away! I was 23 and floored. It took me a couple years after that to get one but, it was just that nice round HP number that did it. I had my Mustang/Vette fix already by that time.

Then when the Viper hit 500HP... I had to have it! (When it hit 600HP the now ex-wife ;) wouldn't let me pull the trigger....)

So, I then waited... and waited.... and waited..... Bam 640 HP.... Blah. Nothing at all to sneeze at but.... blah.... almost getting behind in the times... Not worth the $$$ to upgrade in my book.

Now.... if the car would have hit at 700HP. I would have done everything I could to make it happen. (Vert of course)

I don't race. Couple auto crosses here and there. VOI here and there. Why would I need a 700 HP car?!











Cause man it's 700HP ............ from the factory! :monkeyleft:



Then when that 23 year old today sees it in a Mag/Rag and it has as much HP as the Lambo Aventador... it's on!

Especially, with it's 700 "affordable" HP with a Factory Warranty ...it's a done or, done deal in a few years!

It's not the motion of the Ocean (track times/suspension/seats that sells), it's whats large and in charge when you roll up!:t15197: :dude3:

LOL. This is hilarious, but the funnier part is I think you are serious. Please name the car in this price range with more than 640hp? You didn't buy the 600hp car because of your wife, but the upgrade from 500hp to 640hp is not enough? You really believe round #'s is what does it? Would 650hp have done it for you.

How is a single 911, Audi R8 and GTR ever sold?

I got to go back to chuckling as this is very entertaining stuff.

[Russ Oasis]

Venom V,
I think you nailed it by stating that the Viper is a race car that can be driven on the street and the other cars are street cars that can be driven on the track. With that in mind, anything that diminishes the Vipers abilities on the track is bad in my book. If the $30,000 interior could be replaced with $30,000 in suspension improvements or aero (whatever would make the car faster on the track) that's where I'd like to see it go. The car needs to be OUTRAGEOUS and unbeatable. The car magazines would have a tough time badmouthing the Viper if it consistently CREAMED their favorites (Corvette, Ferrari, McClaren, et al). I also agree with whoever said that the car was just one generation away from being ready to be retro...but that's a less important point in my book. How awesome is it to have the street car that holds so many track records!!!!

[ViperSmith]

Venom V,
I think you nailed it by stating that the Viper is a race car that can be driven on the street and the other cars are street cars that can be driven on the track. With that in mind, anything that diminishes the Vipers abilities on the track is bad in my book. If the $30,000 interior could be replaced with $30,000 in suspension improvements or aero (whatever would make the car faster on the track) that's where I'd like to see it go. The car needs to be OUTRAGEOUS and unbeatable. The car magazines would have a tough time badmouthing the Viper if it consistently CREAMED their favorites (Corvette, Ferrari, McClaren, et al). I also agree with whoever said that the car was just one generation away from being ready to be retro...but that's a less important point in my book. How awesome is it to have the street car that holds so many track records!!!!

I don't think anyone disagrees there should be more options

but lets be real, the cost to develop new suspension options (lets take the McLaren suspension) takes a lot of R&D money, which SRT didn't have.

The Gen V is an upgraded Gen IV if we want to be realistic.

I just am not seeing how having expensive interior options makes the car perform worse.

Ralph and Co could only do so much, I don't think people give them enough credit for what they were able to do.

[Policy Limits]

The 2015 Lamborghini V10 model only has 610 horsepower which is obviously 30 less than the gen v so I'd say the snake has plenty of power. In fact it has over 100 more HP than the current model year V10 Lambo. I do agree that suspension and engineering are significant factors (ie Lotus) and just throwing more HP at it is insufficient. Does everyone realize that the gen V has a feature where you can actually see how much power you are utilizing as you accelerate? I think it's so cool that I always keep this screen on my dash. But even getting on it a little in 5th gear doing. 90-100 it's only showing 300 of the 640 horses being used. So the importance placed on it is over stated IMO still cool for bragging rights though as others have stated. Plus 640 is so high there's probably only a handful of stock cars with a greater number; the aventador is the only one that pops into my mind actually.

[Viktimize]

Get the TA! It's the perfect blend of SRT & GTS! I bet you could get one for 115k! It's the one I would buy hands down if I were still in the market now.

And 130k for a Lambo will only get you a seven year old model. Very outdated and now replaced.


As far as I could tell from research, the TA doesn't have the adjustable suspension?? But they certainly don't make it easy to see what is available on these models. I had to come here and find a post by a random enthusiast laying it all out. That's another thing I am rather disappointed in.


I didn't mean I would get a Lambo with a budget of 130k. I was meaning that if my finances dictated throwing away another 30k without blinking on stuff I don't want, then chances are I would be shopping in the 200k range.

[Policy Limits]

I've owned a 200k Lamborghini best car I've owned to date. Going to a private viewing of the Huracan in a few weeks; can't wait.

[Russ Oasis]

ViperSmith,
Make no mistake. I worship Ralph for what he did. Remember...I own 7 snakes. My only point is that I feel Viper would be best off going in a flat out track performance direction as opposed to a "general performance car" direction. That's all!

[ViperSmith]

ViperSmith,
Make no mistake. I worship Ralph for what he did. Remember...I own 7 snakes. My only point is that I feel Viper would be best off going in a flat out track performance direction as opposed to a "general performance car" direction. That's all!

True enough. Perhaps that is what the Viper will be in the future (look at issues guys had with IAT and drag strip) - just a track focused monster.

I think it comes down to, in 2014, it is hard to be a master of every category. We are in an awesome time of performance cars. We may never see a cool period of petrol powered cars, again.

I get why some are disappointed, but I think it just speaks to everyone else finally stepped up their game.

[Newport Viper]

LOL. This is hilarious, but the funnier part is I think you are serious. Please name the car in this price range with more than 640hp? You didn't buy the 600hp car because of your wife, but the upgrade from 500hp to 640hp is not enough? You really believe round #'s is what does it? Would 650hp have done it for you.

How is a single 911, Audi R8 and GTR ever sold?

I got to go back to chuckling as this is very entertaining stuff.

I try to be funny at most times cause some people take the car stuff a little too serious for me. So... I have to poke at it a bit.

500 to 640HP is a quantum leap! I don't see the value in going from my 500HP $30k Gen 3 to have to front another $70k+++ to get into a 640 HP Gen V when I'm not a fan of going back to a Gen 2 retro look.

I was hoping the car would have one more evolution in style when it was reintroduced. Now nobody get thier panies in wad. The next statement is IMHO only.....The Gen V car gets lost in a parking lot with a bunch of other Vipers around it. We have BIG meets out here in SoCal & it just looks like an old school Gen2 from a distance.... NOTHING wrong with that for most people.... just not for me.

However, if it would have had 700HP then I would have changed my mind. I can forgive that Supermodel that has too flat a butt then...

As far as round numbers go... yeah for the average guy on the street (which I am) round numbers are a critical sales tool to get buzz and recognition. Especially, for the VIper.

Look at the history...
400!
500!
600!
640 WTF
700! Wish....

700 HP.... then no one here would have anything to piss and moan about.... even the guys that mod would figure out how to get it to 750 without getting into the computer....

You tell me what headline looks better to the car Rag reader? 700 or 640? What looks better to todays "Kid" (20-29) that I once was with a few bucks in my pocket? ..that you need to have become your customer in the next 2-3 years...hmmmm

You want refinement & cupholders buy the 638HP ZR1. Hell it's had as much HP as the Viper for what 5 years?

You want the most bad ass rock and roll car on the planet... try a 700HP Viper! :dude3:

Hopefully, SRT refines/ tweaks the styling on the Vert. Bumps it to 650 at least :) Then they have a chance at getting my car fund...

[Policy Limits]

I love that's its a gen II on steroids but that's me, in the looks dept. add the side exhaust pipes that the II was missing & poof you have perfection! Not to mention those LED lights and Maserati inspired splitter. Dope can't say it's been lost anywhere and I roll in a high end exotic car crowd. In fact, I would say moving on the highway OR stopped at a gas station for fuel, it gets AS much filming and photos taken as my Lambo did. Real talk.

The power is plentiful. More concerned with better engineering and all around performance than just some car that is the sum of a bunch of parts pieced together that goes sideways into a ditch and kills you because it had so much torque and so little suspension and engineering. Don't get your panties in a wad early gen guys. Like I said I love that it looks like a gen II.

- - - Updated - - -

*nope can't say...

[VENOM V]

Fixed it for you. :)

I remember way back when the Viper came out with the nice round number of 400 HP. I WAS SOLD BABY! Just blown away! I was 23 and floored. It took me a couple years after that to get one but, it was just that nice round HP number that did it. I had my Mustang/Vette fix already by that time.

Then when the Viper hit 500HP... I had to have it! (When it hit 600HP the now ex-wife ;) wouldn't let me pull the trigger....)

So, I then waited... and waited.... and waited..... Bam 640 HP.... Blah. Nothing at all to sneeze at but.... blah.... almost getting behind in the times... Not worth the $$$ to upgrade in my book.

Now.... if the car would have hit at 700HP. I would have done everything I could to make it happen. (Vert of course)

I don't race. Couple auto crosses here and there. VOI here and there. Why would I need a 700 HP car?!











Cause man it's 700HP ............ from the factory! :monkeyleft:



Then when that 23 year old today sees it in a Mag/Rag and it has as much HP as the Lambo Aventador... it's on!

Especially, with it's 700 "affordable" HP with a Factory Warranty ...it's a done or, done deal in a few years!

It's not the motion of the Ocean (track times/suspension/seats that sells), it's whats large and in charge when you roll up!:t15197: :dude3:

Love this post! You had me laughing my ass off. I agree that 700 HP would be awesome. I think the reality of real-world budgets and meeting ever increasing emissions standards are what get in the way. Now we could go forced induction but then the Viper would lose a little of it's soul and our beautiful supermodel would gain some unsightly pounds.

Gotta say, this whole thread has been a fun read. Carry on boys!

[VENOM V]

Venom V,
I think you nailed it by stating that the Viper is a race car that can be driven on the street and the other cars are street cars that can be driven on the track. With that in mind, anything that diminishes the Vipers abilities on the track is bad in my book. If the $30,000 interior could be replaced with $30,000 in suspension improvements or aero (whatever would make the car faster on the track) that's where I'd like to see it go. The car needs to be OUTRAGEOUS and unbeatable. The car magazines would have a tough time badmouthing the Viper if it consistently CREAMED their favorites (Corvette, Ferrari, McClaren, et al). I also agree with whoever said that the car was just one generation away from being ready to be retro...but that's a less important point in my book. How awesome is it to have the street car that holds so many track records!!!!

Amen brother. I think I've morphed into a hopeless ACR fanatic. God help me if they introduce a Gen V ACR with this recipe, because retirement would go out the window in favor of a record-busting track beast!

[Policy Limits]

Where is "Marketing" now??

[Newport Viper]

Gotta say, this whole thread has been a fun read. Carry on boys!

Having fun on the VOA website?! Who'd of thunk.... :p

[TrackAire]

Where is "Marketing" now??

I'd love to know if GM will void your warranty if you track your Vette???? My buddy had a 2006 Z06 engine let go at Thunderhill when the car was next to new. GM denied warranty because he tracked the car. He ended up in court (arbitration actually per the "fine print" in the sales contract) and lost. He showed marketing proof that GM claimed the Z06 was designed for the track and also the DVD that came with the car showing it being driving like hell on the track.

If you google "C7 track preparation pdf" GM has a fantastic list of suspension settings, lube choices, brake fluid recommendations, etc for tracking your new C7. Should be interesting to see what happens the first time somebody puts in a warranty claim on the motor, trans or clutch after a day at the track.

I wonder if SRT will void the warranty on a new Gen 5 TA if it is known you track the car??

Cheers,
George

[Newport Viper]

Where is "Marketing" now??



620HP 650 TQ

http://jalopnik.com/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-has-620-horses-650-pound-f-1496255058

[ViperSmith]

I'd love to know if GM will void your warranty if you track your Vette???? My buddy had a 2006 Z06 engine let go at Thunderhill when the car was next to new. GM denied warranty because he tracked the car. He ended up in court (arbitration actually per the "fine print" in the sales contract) and lost. He showed marketing proof that GM claimed the Z06 was designed for the track and also the DVD that came with the car showing it being driving like hell on the track.

If you google "C7 track preparation pdf" GM has a fantastic list of suspension settings, lube choices, brake fluid recommendations, etc for tracking your new C7. Should be interesting to see what happens the first time somebody puts in a warranty claim on the motor, trans or clutch after a day at the track.

I wonder if SRT will void the warranty on a new Gen 5 TA if it is known you track the car??

Cheers,
George

SRT can, but will they is another question.

[Policy Limits]

ACR or roadster teasers please...

[V10LEE]

SRT can, but will they is another question.

Being on a shoe string budget. SRT can't do a whole lot IMO..

[Policy Limits]

Yeah Fiat has no resources