First oil change.

[Brian E]

I have always dumped the factory filled oil and filter at 500 miles on all my cars. Right or wrong, thats what I have always done.
I know that SRT has switched to Pennzoil for the SRT line and it is now the factory fill for the Viper.
I am sure there are many owners out there like me who also own an earlier generation Viper. I have a rather large stock pile of Mobil 1 0W40 on hand and will probably us it in the new TA when the time comes. Anyone have any thoughts on that decision?

I have been following a site that has wear tested a wide variety of oils. Below is an exerpt for some of the oils that Viper owners may be considering using.


540RAT – TECH FACTS, NOT MYTHS
http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

Wear protection reference categories are:

• Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection

• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection

• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection

• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection

• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection

All the oils were tested at a representative operational temperature of 230*F.

The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the Wear Protection.



65. 0W40 Mobil 1, API SN, European Formula, made in the U.S., synthetic = 82,644 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

66. 0W40 Pennzoil Ultra, API SN, synthetic = 81,863 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

85. 5W40 MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 74,312 psi
zinc = 1211 ppm
phos = 1168 ppm
moly = 2 ppm

98. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm

[johniew398]

I am a big believer that if you have been running a certain brand of oil for years in a car keep using that oil.

Having said that I would probably use the car manufacturer's recommended oil even if part of what they say is marketing between the car manufacturer and the oil company.

http://www.drivesrt.com/news/2013/12/pennzoil-works-with-srt-brand-on-specialized-motor-oil-blend.html

[plumcrazy]

unless you are in extreme weather or using the car in extreme conditions (road racing, 1/4 mile etc) i dont believe for a second the oil you put in it matters as long as its changed regularly. just my opinion

[VENOM V]

Interesting to see that 15W-50 has a significantly lower psi than 0W-40, yet many road racers run 15W-50. I'm running 15W-50 as I track frequently, wondering if that's the right choice.

[Jack B]

There are many/many reviews of oil properties when used in high performance cars. One thing that seems to be a common thread in the best oils, within one series of tests, is that they have high zinc.

As far as the OP and changing the oil at 500 miles, that seems like common sense. I did the same on my G5. I also cut the filter apart and was amazed that there was zero metal in the filter, to me, that indicates the factory oil works. Personally, I use Royal Purple HPS, the reason being, I cut the filter apart every time I change oil, When using M1, I usually showed engine wear metal in the filter. With Royal Purple the filters always show zero metal.

No endorsement for Royal Purple, it just works for me.

[ViperTony]

Interesting to see that 15W-50 has a significantly lower psi than 0W-40, yet many road racers run 15W-50. I'm running 15W-50 as I track frequently, wondering if that's the right choice.

Significantly lower on a G5? Because on my GenII my oil pressure barely changed when I switched to 15w-50. Does the oil pressure drop a lot in the G5 with 15w-50?

[Voice of Reason]

I wish Amsoil made a 0w40 for us. I've had luck with it in my DD that has a LS series GM engine where I get lifter tick on startup with Mobil 1 but Amsoil it's perfectly silent.

[VENOM V]

Significantly lower on a G5? Because on my GenII my oil pressure barely changed when I switched to 15w-50. Does the oil pressure drop a lot in the G5 with 15w-50?

I was referring to the psi cited in the wear protection test in the first post, not my oil pressure.

My oil pressure is high with 15W-50, perhaps a little higher than with the stock 0W-40. A track buddy of mine cautioned me to watch the oil pressure after the oil change. His concern was that on some cars that are made for lower viscosity oils like the Gen V, 15W-50 can be too viscous as indicated by an overly high psi reading. My pressure is usually about 80% of full scale on the gage.

I think I'll switch back to 0W-40 on my next oil change, especially considering how cold the weather is. This summer, I'll probably run 15W-50 again, as my local tracks see over 100 degrees ambient.

[ViperTony]

I was referring to the psi cited in the wear protection test in the first post, not my oil pressure.

My oil pressure is high with 15W-50, perhaps a little higher than with the stock 0W-40. A track buddy of mine cautioned me to watch the oil pressure after the oil change. His concern was that on some cars that are made for lower viscosity oils like the Gen V, 15W-50 can be too viscous as indicated by an overly high psi reading. My pressure is usually about 80% of full scale on the gage.

I think I'll switch back to 0W-40 on my next oil change, especially considering how cold the weather is. This summer, I'll probably run 15W-50 again, as my local tracks see over 100 degrees ambient.

Ah! THAT PSI! Got it. :anonymous:

[hawk02]

There are two 0-40's from Mobile1, standard and European, the latter is the one to use if you use mobile1, Walmart just started carrying it in the 5qt jugs for under $26.00. I use it on the colder months then switch to 15-50 for the warm/hotter summers. White Viper/SRT filter also.

[Policy Limits]

Are the Mopar oil filters easy to come by? I already had one for my first oil change & didn't need to order it. Wondering if its a part that's easy to find for my next one.

I plan on sticking to the 6 month interval per the owners manual. Anyone going a different path on change times?

[VENOM V]

Are the Mopar oil filters easy to come by? I already had one for my first oil change & didn't need to order it. Wondering if its a part that's easy to find for my next one.

I plan on sticking to the 6 month interval per the owners manual. Anyone going a different path on change times?

No reason to change more frequently unless you're tracking. I went to the local auto supply and they had several brands that fit the Viper. I went with the K&N, it was longer than some and more expensive than all the others. More expensive means better, right? :p

[VENOM V]

There are two 0-40's from Mobile1, standard and European, the latter is the one to use if you use mobile1, Walmart just started carrying it in the 5qt jugs for under $26.00. I use it on the colder months then switch to 15-50 for the warm/hotter summers. White Viper/SRT filter also.

I noticed that Amsoil also sells 0W-40 in European formulation. What about the Mobil 1 Euro formula makes it better?

[PeerBlock]

unless you are in extreme weather or using the car in extreme conditions (road racing, 1/4 mile etc) i dont believe for a second the oil you put in it matters as long as its changed regularly. just my opinion

Pretty much this. The internet has allowed some cult-of-oil to spawn; Mobil 1 Extended Performance in the right viscosity/weight for your region and driving style fits the bill. I usually just stick with the rating that's recommended in the manual. I've NEVER had an engine problem related to the type of oil used and most full synthetics are pretty good.


There are many/many reviews of oil properties when used in high performance cars. One thing that seems to be a common thread in the best oils, within one series of tests, is that they have high zinc.

If we are to believe that the quantity and sentiment of threads on the internet somehow contribute to the merit of an idea. The internet is full of people who read something, somewhere and repeat it believing it to be true but not actually being able to tell you why it is.


As far as the OP and changing the oil at 500 miles, that seems like common sense. I did the same on my G5. I also cut the filter apart and was amazed that there was zero metal in the filter, to me, that indicates the factory oil works. Personally, I use Royal Purple HPS, the reason being, I cut the filter apart every time I change oil, When using M1, I usually showed engine wear metal in the filter. With Royal Purple the filters always show zero metal.

This is one of those internet myths that stemmed out of the quick lube marketing efforts of the 80s. The whole "change your oil every 3000 miles" thing has no technical basis in that it prolongs engine life or offers any other benefit beyond increasing Jiffy Lube's bottom line. With a full synthetic oil in your vehicle, regardless of brand preference, you can safely change it every 5000-10000 miles.

More frequent oil changes are necessary if you operate the engine at its full capacity for extended periods of time - like racing on a track - but even the occasional weekend at the drag strip does not warrant a frequent oil changing regimen.

[PeerBlock]

No reason to change more frequently unless you're tracking. I went to the local auto supply and they had several brands that fit the Viper. I went with the K&N, it was longer than some and more expensive than all the others. More expensive means better, right? :p

I used to use Mobil-1 filters and then I switched to purolator pure one, which cost about half and are just as good in terms of filtration as the more expensive ones.

[Brian E]

I went to the local auto supply and they had several brands that fit the Viper. I went with the K&N, it was longer than some and more expensive than all the others. More expensive means better, right? :p

I have always been told to stick with the Mopar oil filter for my Gen 4. (Gen 3, any quality filter would do) I am getting old, and I may be wrong, but I believe the reason I was told to stay with the Mopar oil filter for the Gen 4 was that the bypass spring in the aftermarket oil filters isn't strong enough. Not sure if the recomendation is same for the Gen V, maybe Mark J can answer this for us.

[ViperSmith]

I did my first at 1200 miles and will do again at 5000.

We changed our tractor fluids every 100 hours on our dairy farm growing up and they lasted generations. Big believer in it.

[hawk02]

I noticed that Amsoil also sells 0W-40 in European formulation. What about the Mobil 1 Euro formula makes it better?

Supposed to be engineered for higher stress and sheer strength vs the regular, Total Quartz is supposed to be great as well, made in France.

[Joel]

When you look at oil filter tests, you find that some filters, like the Mobil 1, have synthetic fiber filter material, while others, like the Pure 1, have paper material. In terms of filtration there may not be a lot of difference, but Mobil 1 filters flow more oil than many of the paper element filters. In a high performance engine, that makes a difference in some situations - like driving a car hard. Having said that Bill Pemberton recommended that I use Mopar Viper filters on my '03 when I track it. Not so much filtration but construction and valving according to Bill.


I used to use Mobil-1 filters and then I switched to purolator pure one, which cost about half and are just as good in terms of filtration as the more expensive ones.

[Steve M]

If we are to believe that the quantity and sentiment of threads on the internet somehow contribute to the merit of an idea. The internet is full of people who read something, somewhere and repeat it believing it to be true but not actually being able to tell you why it is.

Wait, like this?


This is one of those internet myths that stemmed out of the quick lube marketing efforts of the 80s. The whole "change your oil every 3000 miles" thing has no technical basis in that it prolongs engine life or offers any other benefit beyond increasing Jiffy Lube's bottom line. With a full synthetic oil in your vehicle, regardless of brand preference, you can safely change it every 5000-10000 miles.

There's some merit to what you stated, especially if we're considering your run-of-the-mill daily driver. The Viper doesn't quite fall into that category...it has a high performance engine that puts out a boatload of power, and along with that, heat. For that reason alone, changing the oil every 5,000-10,000 miles may not be the best idea, especially considering that SRT recommends oil changes every 6 months (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that one). They've done the durability/wear testing on these engines, so I'd be inclined to go by their advice, especially considering how much these motors cost. The only way you'd be able to know for sure is if you did regular oil analyses, and I don't see you posting any results (you've posted plenty of insults though). And in the "oh, by the way category," congrats on being the first (?) person on this board to get the ban hammer!

Back on topic: as for the oil brand, I'd be inclined to try 0w40 Pennzoil Ultra if I could easily find it in that weight. Pennzoil Ultra gets really good reviews on sites like BobistheOilGuy, although Mobil 1 0w40 is also pretty highly regarded. For me, the Mobil 1 is easier to source (like stated above, it can be found at Wal-Mart in 5 qt. jugs for $26-$27/jug), so I'll keep using that. If the Pennzoil Ultra gets just as easy to find, I'll probably give that a whirl too. I don't think you could go wrong with either...the Gen 4 and Gen 5 engines are very similar, so I'd think Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Ultra would both be more than adequate. You certainly won't find me running it for 10,000 mile oil change intervals though.

[TrackAire]

Interesting read from 540RAT....thanks for posting. It is very tough to read between the lines regarding if "wear" is actually an issue with our type of cars as opposed to a flat tappet racing engine, often times running very high valve spring pressure or even if the spring pressures are correct (lots of engine builders screw up all the time....not as likely on a production built engine that has gone through durability testing, etc)

I think this is the key paragraph to 540RAT's findings:

"The “Wear Protection” test data here DIRECTLY APPLIES to flat tappet lobe/lifter interfaces (no matter how wicked the engine), pushrod tip/rocker arm interfaces, non-roller tip rocker arm/valve stem tip interfaces, distributor gear/cam gear interfaces, mechanical fuel pump pushrod tip/cam eccentric interfaces, and all highly loaded engine interfaces."

I'm not an engine building expert, but does the Viper V10 engine have any of the above parts other than maybe the rocker arm/valve stem tip interface? There really is no metal to metal contact in our engines that isn't oil pressurized or kept apart by the authors own admission of a hydro-dymanic wedge (IIRC). It doesn't matter what type of oil you use, as soon as there is actual metal to metal contact (usually caused by no oil pressure) your engine will fail. And by the authors own admission, if the oil is separating the parts there is no wear that can occur.

What really makes me wonder about his wear report is the diesel engine oils and how low Shell Rotella and Chevron Delo scored on his wear test psi meter. In my previous job, we had over 1 billion dollars in construction and over the road equipment, much of it diesel power. At my location, we'd go through hundreds of gallons of Delo 400 per month. With that much equipment, it was always interesting to jump on the maintenance computer and look for trends, issues, etc. I cannot ever remember losing an engine due to the wrong type of oil, even when customers mistakenly put hydraulic oil or ATF in the engine crankcase. Lack of oil, no oil pressure or a mechanical defect would cause us to lose an engine, but never the actual oil. Many of our big rigs would often go over 300,000 miles before we sold them...not because the engine was wearing out but because the rest of the chassis was falling apart in the conditions we were using them. Many over the road truckers put in over 400,000 miles plus between engine rebuilds. Rotella and Delo are two of the most popular oils out there. There are a lot of privately owned Cummins, Powerstroke and Duramax pickups running Rotella or Delo with over 250,000 miles on the motor and no internal engine wear issues.

I guess if concerned with "wear", you have to ask yourself "where" and does it really matter??

I agree with the author that thinner oil does flow faster and maybe carries away more heat. As to his claim for more horsepower, it depends. I've seen back to back tests that showed a thicker oil make more torque on the dyno....the theory was the thicker oil did not foam up and aerate causing crank drag like the much thinner oil did. Could have been the engine design, bad windage tray design, etc. With so many engine designs, work environments and driving styles, I don't think you can actually list one oil that will work for every application.

George

[hawk02]

I noticed that Amsoil also sells 0W-40 in European formulation. What about the Mobil 1 Euro formula makes it better?

I did not see a 0-40 at all on their site just 5-40 european??